Jay Shah's resignation and the removal of all Indians from ICC leadership positions

[Savak]

If I were in the PCB leadership group, this would be my first and foremost demand from the ICC.

Jay Shah and his fellow Indians in the ICC leadership positions have literally converted the ICC body as a side Harlem for the BCCI and the Indian government, country of India.

So shameless is Jay Shah and his fellow countryman in the ICC leadership committee, they are not even trying to pretend to be fair and neutral when it comes to dealing with ICC issues. He has made it very clear he has come to the ICC to do the maximum possible bidding for the BCCI, government of India, BJP and the country of India and that the policy of the BJP, government of India, nation of India will be the policy of the ICC.

If anything the PCB should refuse to recognize the ICC under Jay Shah's leadership and the presence of any Indian in the ICC leadership committee and that the presence of any Indian or Jay Shah in the ICC leadership is a massive conflict of interest given the existing relationship between India and Pakistan

 

[Devadwal]

If I were in the PCB leadership group, this would be my first and foremost demand from the ICC.

Jay Shah and his fellow Indians in the ICC leadership positions have literally converted the ICC body as a side Harlem for the BCCI and the Indian government, country of India.

So shameless is Jay Shah and his fellow countryman in the ICC leadership committee, they are not even trying to pretend to be fair and neutral when it comes to dealing with ICC issues. He has made it very clear he has come to the ICC to do the maximum possible bidding for the BCCI, government of India, BJP and the country of India and that the policy of the BJP, government of India, nation of India will be the policy of the ICC.

If anything the PCB should refuse to recognize the ICC under Jay Shah's leadership and the presence of any Indian in the ICC leadership committee and that the presence of any Indian or Jay Shah in the ICC leadership is a massive conflict of interest given the existing relationship between India and Pakistan

Who are you ? And who is PCB? Chak age bado

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

OP you are advocating that PCB ramp up an already existing conflict in which it has much less power.

The end results will be very interesting.

But quite apart from that what is the exact proof for your statements about the BCCI capturing ICC? Not conjecture or opinion or press reports, but proof

 

[Hitman]

Mungerilal keh' hassen sapne!

By the way, it's Bangladesh who refused to travel to India. It's Pakistan that's refusing to play against India. Yet, it's ICC and Jay Shah who should be blamed. ​

 

[Vikram1989]

Yeah. won't take Indian money to survive should also be one more clause along with other demands.

It helps pak and ban to start thinking and working

 

[ahsan17]

By the way, it's Bangladesh who refused to travel to India. It's Pakistan that's refusing to play against India. Yet, it's ICC and Jay Shah who should be blamed. ​

If you take things out of context completely, or ignore the context, then you end up with posts like this.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Of course we would have no option but to accept such a sensible demand. International cricket will do whatever it can to unhurt its beloved cricket nation my dear.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

The below are facts and not my opinions.

Since OP has historically been a reasonable poster, let’s take this thread as an opportunity to evaluate real world alternatives for all parties, keeping emotions aside.

1. What happens next: For starters ICC has already issued a warning to PCB about the consequences of a boycott (Link here)

2. PCB’s participation is defined - as it is for all other boards - by the Member Participation Agreement (MPA). This is a legally binding document as per which qualifying teams have to compete. If a team breaches this agreement there are consequences.

3. The options for Pakistan here? As per the ICC regulations (which PCB has agreed to when it became a member) disputes have to be settled via CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) or its internal Dispute Resolution Committee (DRC). Not civil courts.

Again, words such as izzat, dignity, etc are relevant to understand the stance of various parties but won’t drive the end results.

 

[pratiktc]

The below are facts and not my opinions.

Since OP has historically been a reasonable poster, let’s take this thread as an opportunity to evaluate real world alternatives for all parties, keeping emotions aside.

1. What happens next: For starters ICC has already issued a warning to PCB about the consequences of a boycott (Link here)

2. PCB’s participation is defined - as it is for all other boards - by the Member Participation Agreement (MPA). This is a legally binding document as per which qualifying teams have to compete. If a team breaches this agreement there are consequences.

3. The options for Pakistan here? As per the ICC regulations (which PCB has agreed to when it became a member) disputes have to be settled via CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) or its internal Dispute Resolution Committee (DRC). Not civil courts.

Again, words such as izzat, dignity, etc are relevant to understand the stance of various parties but won’t drive the end results.

Unfortunately Izzat dignity mean nothing even to the individuals manipulating the scenarios.

Naqvi and politicians of the day running PCB will posture, get their media coverage and eventually move on. Everyone else will have to pick up the pieces and work on Pakistan cricket.

 

[Hitman]

If you take things out of context completely, or ignore the context, then you end up with posts like this.

Kindly care to remind us of the context?

 

[Vikram1989]

The below are facts and not my opinions.

Since OP has historically been a reasonable poster, let’s take this thread as an opportunity to evaluate real world alternatives for all parties, keeping emotions aside.



3. The options for Pakistan here? As per the ICC regulations (which PCB has agreed to when it became a member) disputes have to be settled via CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) or its internal Dispute Resolution Committee (DRC). Not civil courts.

CAS is not an option. CAS is only for corruption related cases Its only board meeting or DRC.

There is another thread where @rpant_gabba mentioned all the rules.

 

[Savak]

The below are facts and not my opinions.

Since OP has historically been a reasonable poster, let’s take this thread as an opportunity to evaluate real world alternatives for all parties, keeping emotions aside.

1. What happens next: For starters ICC has already issued a warning to PCB about the consequences of a boycott (Link here)

2. PCB’s participation is defined - as it is for all other boards - by the Member Participation Agreement (MPA). This is a legally binding document as per which qualifying teams have to compete. If a team breaches this agreement there are consequences.

3. The options for Pakistan here? As per the ICC regulations (which PCB has agreed to when it became a member) disputes have to be settled via CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) or its internal Dispute Resolution Committee (DRC). Not civil courts.

Again, words such as izzat, dignity, etc are relevant to understand the stance of various parties but won’t drive the end results.

Lol so the ICC is threatening the PCB for listening to the Pakistani govt? MPA becomes null and void when the government refuses permission to a country.

Any ICC mechanism to resolve this dispute is a joke as long as Jay Shah sits in the ICC chairman role and if there are any Indians in the ICC leadership positions given the existing state of Indo Pakistan political situation.

 

[Vikram1989]

Lol so the ICC is threatening the PCB for listening to the Pakistani govt? MPA becomes null and void when the government refuses permission to a country.

In which country pak is playing there league matches ? On Moon?

 

[Savak]

In which country pak is playing there league matches ? On Moon?

Again it doesn't matter. The Pakistani Indian game can be scheduled in heaven, once the Pakistani govt refuses permission to the Pakistani team to play against India, the Pakistani team has no choice but to obey the command of its government. The ICC MPA becomes toilet paper then. The BCCI has cited the same privilege in the past for boycotting bilateral cricket against Pakistan and for refusing to tour Pakistan for the ICC champions trophy. You can't have it both ways where BCCI is bound to obey the decision of its Indian government but the ICC and BCCI demands that the PCB disobey the decision of the Pakistani government

 

[sweep_shot]

I think countries should start a new cricketing governing body. Ditch ICC.

Money issue can be figured out later.

I refuse to believe cricket cannot run without Indian money. Was there no cricket before BCCICC? Cricket is over 400 years old as a sport.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

Lol so the ICC is threatening the PCB for listening to the Pakistani govt? MPA becomes null and void when the government refuses permission to a country.

Any ICC mechanism to resolve this dispute is a joke as long as Jay Shah sits in the ICC chairman role and if there are any Indians in the ICC leadership positions given the existing state of Indo Pakistan political situation.

Your joke comment is an emotional response, a debating point or an opinion that won’t make a difference to the ground reality.

This is fact: The ICC mechanism to resolve the dispute has been agreed to and signed by PCB.

This is also fact: The MPA does not necessarily become null and void just because a government refuses its cricket board permission to play. In fact government interference can be viewed as a breach of obligation for which the PCB can be held responsible.
This is Article 2.4 of the ICC Constitution.
https://www.icc-cricket.com/about/the-icc/structure/committee-terms

The MPA is a this legally enforceable contract between the board and the ICC. A government directive does not automatically dissolve these private contractual obligations.

 

[sweep_shot]

I think countries should start a new cricketing governing body. Ditch ICC.

Money issue can be figured out later.

I refuse to believe cricket cannot run without Indian money. Was there no cricket before BCCICC? Cricket is over 400 years old as a sport.

1975, 1979, and 1983 World Cups were arranged without Indian money. Just one example.

Main sponsor was Prudential Assurance Company. It was a UK-based organization.

Cricket can be sponsored without Indian money. There are non-Indian companies who can sponsor as we have seen before.

 

[Vikram1989]

Again it doesn't matter. The Pakistani Indian game can be scheduled in heaven, once the Pakistani govt refuses permission to the Pakistani team to play against India, the Pakistani team has no choice but to obey the command of its government. The ICC MPA becomes toilet paper then. The BCCI has cited the same privilege in the past for boycotting bilateral cricket against Pakistan and for refusing to tour Pakistan for the ICC champions trophy. You can't have it both ways where BCCI is bound to obey the decision of its Indian government but the ICC and BCCI demands that the PCB disobey the decision of the Pakistani government

India objected playing in Pakistan not against Pakistan. So India travelled to Dubai and played there.Pak was provided the same privilege. Govt can deny the permission to enter a country but not to boycott a specific game. ( that too league game will be boycotted but not knock outs kind of clownish stuff cant be done).

I see the below rule for this kind of lunacy.

Prohibition of Selective Participation:

The ICC does not recognize "selective participation"—where a team plays some opponents but boycotts others in a tournament—as valid. All qualified teams are expected to compete on equal terms according to the event schedule.

 

[mon858]

Then there is another option. Show up for game, do everything toss etc. Even batsmen go out to bat. But just leave every ball. Set a target of 1. Or batsmen get timed out. What can they do then

 

[ahsan17]

Kindly care to remind us of the context?

Context is quite simple. If BCCICC had moved Bangladesh's games outside of India, none of this would have happened. Just like they move India's games every time India asks.

 

[Hitman]

Context is quite simple. If BCCICC had moved Bangladesh's games outside of India, none of this would have happened. Just like they move India's games every time India asks.

The issue is only between India and Pakistan, not any other country. It was Bangladesh's choice not to travel to India, when India has never had reservations in travelling to Bangladesh.​

 

[Sachin fan]

While weaving fantasies, why not ask ICC for world peace and Israel's withdrawal from Gaza as well.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Pakistan should be allowed to boycott, yes they disrespected ICC by first asking for an alternative venue and then dropping out due to fear of getting flogged but still its okay.

No team/person should be forced to compete against a rival who is threateningly superior and can leave them in a pile of their own blood and sweat.

Pcb surrendered and thats okay.

 

[ahsan17]

The issue is only between India and Pakistan, not any other country. It was Bangladesh's choice not to travel to India, when India has never had reservations in travelling to Bangladesh.​

India doesn't get to decide who the issue is between. India did something to **** off BD, their government disallowed BD from traveling. By ICC's own precedent, where a government disallowing a team from traveling meant ICC made alternate accommodations, ICC should have made alternate accommodations.

 

[Sachin fan]

Context is quite simple. If BCCICC had moved Bangladesh's games outside of India, none of this would have happened. Just like they move India's games every time India asks.

You guys have been corrected about this lie a million times yet you won't stop lying about this. Fidrat mai hai jhoot bolna.

So for the one millionth time, asking permission ahead and planning is different from last moment ask when everything is already planned.

Pakistan asked ahead and got permission to play in Sri lanka. Bangladesh threw a tantrum and withdrew last moment which will affect hosts and sponsors. Sri lanka and Ireland refused group change.

You can continue lying and make comparisons between two things which are not equal.

 

[Hitman]

India doesn't get to decide who the issue is between. India did something to **** off BD, their government disallowed BD from traveling. By ICC's own precedent, where a government disallowing a team from traveling meant ICC made alternate accommodations, ICC should have made alternate accommodations.

What did India do to **** off Bangladesh? Regardless of anything, Bangladesh should not have stopped their team from travelling to India unless they wanted to be booted off, which they successfully did.​

 

[ahsan17]

You guys have been corrected about this lie a million times yet you won't stop lying about this. Fidrat mai hai jhoot bolna.

So for the one millionth time, asking permission ahead and planning is different from last moment ask when everything is already planned.

Pakistan asked ahead and got permission to play in Sri lanka. Bangladesh threw a tantrum and withdrew last moment which will affect hosts and sponsors. Sri lanka and Ireland refused group change.

You can continue lying and make comparisons between two things which are not equal.

I have no doubt ICC would have accommodated India if they requested it 24 hours in advance. You guys use silly technicalities every time as an excuse. 3-4 weeks is plenty of time to move games around.

 

[Hitman]

I have no doubt ICC would have accommodated India if they requested it 24 hours in advance. You guys use silly technicalities every time as an excuse. 3-4 weeks is plenty of time to move games around.

No, it isn't. No team has managed to successfully change their venue of matches to another country in an ICC tournament with less than 4 weeks of the start of the tournament.​

 

[ahsan17]

What did India do to **** off Bangladesh? Regardless of anything, Bangladesh should not have stopped their team from travelling to India unless they wanted to be booted off, which they successfully did.​

If government disallows the team from traveling, then ICC has set a precedent (at the behest of India) that it doesn't matter what the reason is, they will make alternate arrangements. Many (most?) Indians have made this argument in the past when India didn't travel to Pakistan or whatnot, or when NZ took off from Pakistan minutes before the toss happened 5 odd years ago.

 

[Hikaru]

I think Indian administrators are some of the best and most fair, OP is one of the countless jealous Pakistanis and shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[ahsan17]

No, it isn't. No team has managed to successfully change their venue of matches to another country in an ICC tournament with less than 4 weeks of the start of the tournament.​

Because it hasn't been asked for. A simple solution would have been to give all the BD games to Sri Lanka. That was the easiest solution. Alternatively, they could have moved games around if they wanted to be more creative. They didn't do that as it would have been humiliating for BCCI.

 

[Sachin fan]

I have no doubt ICC would have accommodated India if they requested it 24 hours in advance. You guys use silly technicalities every time as an excuse. 3-4 weeks is plenty of time to move games around.

No they wouldn't. The sponsors alone will sue BCCI to oblivion

Just because you guys aren't aware of how the world works, doesn't make any assertion true.

Sri lanka and Ireland refused group change for bangladesh - Stop Lying

14 out of 16 ICC members voted against Bangladesh - Stop Lying

But but BCCI should have forced hosts Sri lanka and member Ireland to change groups is the most dishonest assertion you guys make. You want BCCI to be the bulky you accuse them of

 

[Hikaru]

Because it hasn't been asked for. A simple solution would have been to give all the BD games to Sri Lanka. That was the easiest solution. Alternatively, they could have moved games around if they wanted to be more creative. They didn't do that as it would have been humiliating for BCCI.

You don't know anything about the tournament, timeline and arrangements to claim that it was the easiest solution. You are only repeating what you want to hear. Fact is ICC members too didn't want to budge from thier position to accomodate Banglu tantrums.

 

[SportsWarrior]

1975, 1979, and 1983 World Cups were arranged without Indian money. Just one example.

Main sponsor was Prudential Assurance Company. It was a UK-based organization.

Cricket can be sponsored without Indian money. There are non-Indian companies who can sponsor as we have seen before.

there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone, including the companies in UK, Aus, BD and Pak to bid for sponsorship and take it over from Indians. Infact everyone in the world, including BCCI will love it as it will have more competition and BCCI that will bring them more money. ICC will be even more happy as they will have a competitive brand which is not India based. Why hasn't it happened? who is stopping them?

 

[ahsan17]

No they wouldn't. The sponsors alone will sue BCCI to oblivion

Just because you guys aren't aware of how the world works, doesn't make any assertion true.

Sri lanka and Ireland refused group change for bangladesh - Stop Lying

14 out of 16 ICC members voted against Bangladesh - Stop Lying

But but BCCI should have forced hosts Sri lanka and member Ireland to change groups is the most dishonest assertion you guys make. You want BCCI to be the bulky you accuse them of

The solutions magically appear whenever India asks, but not when Pakistan or BD do. Hiding behind "how the world works" is usually a way to obfuscate.

With respect to 14 out of 16 members voting. I again repeat, that is irrelevant if ICC has already set the precedent that government denial is absolute and they have to make accommodations. I see you continue to ignore this point and deflect, which says it all.

 

[uppercut]

Mungerilal keh' hassen sapne!
​

Minor correction .... MungeriKhan key haseen aur rangeeley sapney ...

By the way, it's Bangladesh who refused to travel to India. It's Pakistan that's refusing to play against India. Yet, it's ICC and Jay Shah who should be blamed. ​

Exactly ... and the underlying reason for BD not wanting to play in India is that IPL said no to Fiz ... can't make this up

 

[ahsan17]

You don't know anything about the tournament, timeline and arrangements to claim that it was the easiest solution. You are only repeating what you want to hear. Fact is ICC members too didn't want to budge from thier position to accomodate Banglu tantrums.

I have to keep going back to the precedent ICC has set when government denies a team from traveling to another country, regardless of reason. BCCI has used this excuse time and time again, and andhbakhts latch on to this excuse.

 

[rpant_gabba]

If I were in the PCB leadership group, this would be my first and foremost demand from the ICC.

Jay Shah and his fellow Indians in the ICC leadership positions have literally converted the ICC body as a side Harlem for the BCCI and the Indian government, country of India.

So shameless is Jay Shah and his fellow countryman in the ICC leadership committee, they are not even trying to pretend to be fair and neutral when it comes to dealing with ICC issues. He has made it very clear he has come to the ICC to do the maximum possible bidding for the BCCI, government of India, BJP and the country of India and that the policy of the BJP, government of India, nation of India will be the policy of the ICC.

If anything the PCB should refuse to recognize the ICC under Jay Shah's leadership and the presence of any Indian in the ICC leadership committee and that the presence of any Indian or Jay Shah in the ICC leadership is a massive conflict of interest given the existing relationship between India and Pakistan

For a while, you were posts made some sense. Now you are back to your old self crica 2018-2019.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

I have to keep going back to the precedent ICC has set when government denies a team from traveling to another country, regardless of reason. BCCI has used this excuse time and time again, and andhbakhts latch on to this excuse.

Quite apart from timing - which is last minute- PCB has not said they won’t travel to SL.

They have said they won’t play India.

Do you see the difference?

 

[rpant_gabba]

Lol so the ICC is threatening the PCB for listening to the Pakistani govt? MPA becomes null and void when the government refuses permission to a country.

Any ICC mechanism to resolve this dispute is a joke as long as Jay Shah sits in the ICC chairman role and if there are any Indians in the ICC leadership positions given the existing state of Indo Pakistan political situation.

If Pak govt will overrule contracts PCB's contract at the last minute, what is the point of having PCB sign contacts?

PCB should lose its match participation fees and yearly distribution and future MPA should include a punitive clause which has a huge financial penalty. MPA's are signed after detailed elaborate discussions and spiteful, last minute actions should have serious consequences.

 

[Bhaijaan]

For a while, you were posts made some sense. Now you are back to your old self crica 2018-2019.

Just because he’s sensible doesn’t mean he doesn’t have passion for Pakistan. You can’t deny a man his right to patriotism.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Just because he’s sensible doesn’t mean he doesn’t have passion for Pakistan. You can’t deny a man his right to patriotism.

Masttermindquad aka Freelancecricketer, go away bro. don't have time for you. never did

 

[ahsan17]

Quite apart from timing - which is last minute- PCB has not said they won’t travel to SL.

They have said they won’t play India.

Do you see the difference?

Even with that, ICC has set the precedent that at most the team will lose points and that's it.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Even with that, ICC has set the precedent

Not after. signing of MPA. Aus and WI decided long before that they will not travel to SL

that at most the team will lose points and that's it.

you pray and wish.

 

[UP]

Again it doesn't matter. The Pakistani Indian game can be scheduled in heaven, once the Pakistani govt refuses permission to the Pakistani team to play against India, the Pakistani team has no choice but to obey the command of its government. The ICC MPA becomes toilet paper then. The BCCI has cited the same privilege in the past for boycotting bilateral cricket against Pakistan and for refusing to tour Pakistan for the ICC champions trophy. You can't have it both ways where BCCI is bound to obey the decision of its Indian government but the ICC and BCCI demands that the PCB disobey the decision of the Pakistani government

This is a FAKE Pakistani government. So I hope ICC bans them for 2-5 years.

 

[TheNeutralist]

So PCB asked for change in venue for its league matches. ICC moves their league matches to Sri Lanka (which includes Ind V Pak)

Now PCB says they will play all matches except the match against India?

I guess PCB will be handed sanctions by ICC

 

[Bhaijaan]

Masttermindquad aka Freelancecricketer, go away bro. don't have time for you. never did

You always say that, but then you come crawling back to me with your tail tucked between your legs, wanting for more.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

 

[SportsWarrior]

If Pak govt will overrule contracts PCB's contract at the last minute, what is the point of having PCB sign contacts?

PCB should lose its match participation fees and yearly distribution and future MPA should include a punitive clause which has a huge financial penalty. MPA's are signed after detailed elaborate discussions and spiteful, last minute actions should have serious consequences.

lol, Pak govt can do whatever they want. The contract is between PCB and ICC. Pak govt is not a party to the contract. PCB can back off from the contract and use Pak Govt to shelter themselves. But Pak courts have no jurisdiction to rule on the contract although they can force PCB to act in a specific way as they are incorporated in Pak. ICC is incorporated in UAE and they come under their contract laws and if PCB reigns on the contracts they will go through whatever arbitrations they have setup in the contract. If PCB refuses to abide by contract and ICC laws they can be expelled. It is not very difficult to get a ruling on that as even the current decision to replace BCB was 14-2.

 

[ahsan17]

Not after. signing of MPA. Aus and WI decided long before that they will not travel to SL

you pray and wish.

My point is, ICC has set precedent that whenever a government tells a team to do whatever, that absolves that team and it's board of any financial liability at the worst, and very often ICC makes alternate arrangements. This is not just limited to visiting countries but also playing teams. I am specifically talking about government involvement here - not boards making their own decisions.

 

[rpant_gabba]

My point is, ICC has set precedent that whenever a government tells a team to do whatever, that absolves that team and it's board of any financial liability at the worst, and very often ICC makes alternate arrangements. This is not just limited to visiting countries but also playing teams. I am specifically talking about government involvement here - not boards making their own decisions.

Government involvement will have no influence over contractual agreements.

Besides, ICC doesn’t have to sue PCB. Simply stop payments. PCB would have to find a court where ICC will bother to show up and explain why they should paid after violating a contract at the last minute.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

On one thread you are warning of repercussions where ICC is going to Nuke Pakistan and on the other you think PCB can make these type of demands where it can nuke ICC.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I went to sleep and overnight Indian posters got law degrees and became lawyers for ICC providing analysis of contracts that aren't in th public domain.

Respect to them for their hard work.