What's new

Kane Williamson's bowling action found to be legal [Update Post #169]

L

lestaboy

Local Club Captain
Joined
May 22, 2013
Runs
2,467
Former New Zealand test wicket keeper Tony Blain has labelled Black Cap Kane Williamson a chucker.

Blain believes Williamson is one of many international bowlers who wear long sleeve shirts to hide the excessive bend in their elbow.

He says it's an epidemic and it's being turned a blind eye to.

Blain says it's quite a disgrace, there are laws in cricket about not throwing it but they are being ignored


'
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/
 
How often do you see someone's own countrymen labelling him a Chucker, cheat, or whatever?
 
So I guess he's not a better spinner than Ashwin after all.
 
btw, sakib always bowls with full sleeves during international matches :13: I wonder if he chucks?

Then again, he doesnt wear sleeves in domestic matches so probably doesnt chuck. Abdur razzak in his early days would bend his arm as much as Ajmal and soon was forced to change his action.
 
Why cannot bowlers wear short sleeves and bowl?

If they are clean, then they should not worry about getting caught.
 
Executioner said:
How often do you see someone's own countrymen labelling him a Chucker, cheat, or whatever?
Click to expand...

Very often in a country like ours.

Bedi calls Ojha, Bhajji, Iqbal abdullah, Ashok menaria as blatant chuckers everytime he sees them play.

(Only Ashwin has escaped his wrath so far)
 
Re: Kane Williamson labelled a 'chucker'

Well he does sneak in a chuck here and there but he is no Jermaine Lawson or Charlie Griffith.
 
It's astounding that Kane gets zero attention and Ajmal/Bhajji/Murali got and have always gotten truckloads about their actions *racism card played*
 
Kane Williamson labelled a 'chucker'

Eagle_Eye said:
Ajmal wears long sleave in UAE and Sri Lanka too?
Click to expand...

Yes he does.

It's hard to understand really, why would any one wear full sleeves in the scorching heat of UAE and the summer heat of SL, let alone indulge in physical exertion.

Obviously fishy. But in defense of Ajmal, even Swann wears full sleeves and he has one of the cleanest actions in history. Hence, the sleeves criteria is pretty inconclusive.
 
I'll tell you why spinners wear long sleeves. They have no muscles to show off. That's why they bowl spin. Otherwise they'd bowl phaast. :akhtar
 
Desi_Joker said:
I'll tell you why spinners wear long sleeves. They have no muscles to show off. That's why they bowl spin. Otherwise they'd bowl phaast. :akhtar
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that, i've seen spinners wearing short sleeves; Irfan Pathan comes to mind :yk
 
mithun_minhas said:
Why cannot bowlers wear short sleeves and bowl?
Click to expand...

Some bowlers always wear full sleeves while bowling but wear half sleeves while batting in the same match, lol.

Anyway, cricket is full of chuckers. ICC has made it legal to chuck so no way to stop it. Kane is just joining that list, nothing new here.
 
Last edited:
He's a pelter but the ICC have made chucking legal not because it's right but because it's politically easier than banning the cheats.
 
Yeah I agree, its getting obvious now regarding 'chucking' but we all know ICC is a messed up organisation. Ajmal doesn't really chuck that much its just his Doosra which is suspicious. Williamson and Samuels are definitely chuckers and need to be investigated.
 
Energetic said:
Yeah I agree, its getting obvious now regarding 'chucking' but we all know ICC is a messed up organisation. Ajmal doesn't really chuck that much its just his Doosra which is suspicious. Williamson and Samuels are definitely chuckers and need to be investigated.
Click to expand...

Which he bowls often. That's his bread and butter.

Ajmal, Harbhajan, Kane, Samuels .... All of them chuck. It's legal but it's chuking.
 
Re: Kane Williamson labelled a 'chucker'

Varun said:
Yeah and that's his only wicket taking delivery.
Click to expand...

It was in the UAE. But for some reason he seems to rarely bowl it these days, in all formats.
 
Kane Williamson labelled a 'chucker'

talha3 said:
It was in the UAE. But for some reason he seems to rarely bowl it these days, in all formats.
Click to expand...

He doesn't want the batsmen to get overexposed to the doosra because he would useless if they get used to it because as a conventional spinner, he's average.
 
Ajmal only recently started wearing long sleeve... look at him in T20 WC 2009 even that in England he used short sleeves back then, if I remember correctly.
 
HamzaSaeen said:
Ajmal only recently started wearing long sleeve... look at him in T20 WC 2009 even that in England he used short sleeves back then, if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...

For Ajmal it actually make sense to wear long sleeves so the batsman doesn't know what kind of delivery it will be.
 
HamzaSaeen said:
Ajmal only recently started wearing long sleeve... look at him in T20 WC 2009 even that in England he used short sleeves back then, if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...

Yep it's not hard to put two and two together. Long sleeves have done the trick for Ajmal. Have a look at this stat:

After 13 matches:

Ajmal 59 wickets @ 33.5 , batting avg 12.75 with 1 fifty.
Ashwin 75 wickets @29.8, batting avg 42.8 with 1 hundred and 3 fifties.

Tests, obviously.
 
trogger said:
He's a pelter but the ICC have made chucking legal not because it's right but because it's politically easier than banning the cheats.
Click to expand...

Is the correct answer.

For the record, Swann often wears short sleeves.
 
Not just spinners that chuck. Kevon Cooper and Andrew Ellis are clearly chuckers.
 
avidlearner said:
Very often in a country like ours.

Bedi calls Ojha, Bhajji, Iqbal abdullah, Ashok menaria as blatant chuckers everytime he sees them play.

(Only Ashwin has escaped his wrath so far)
Click to expand...

Bedi was one of a kind. There will be exceptions

Dont forget the "ya viv, talk nah"
 
If kane williamson is a chucker then what about... let's not even go there...
 
James said:
Is the correct answer.

For the record, Swann often wears short sleeves.
Click to expand...

That's the key. Occasionally wearing full sleeves is bit different than always wearing it when you bowl but then put on half sleeves while batting.
 
Buffet said:
That's the key. Occasionally wearing full sleeves is bit different than always wearing it when you bowl but then put on half sleeves while batting.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Swann tends to bat in short sleeves, and bowl in short sleeves outside of England.
 
I wonder if we'll ever see the day when the ICC outlaws bowlers being allowed to bowl in long sleeve shirts.
 
The c word gets banded about a lot.

The current definition of chucking makes it difficult for anybody to chuck.
 
Why is Ajmal being dragged here again ??

George Dobell explained his case very well last year but I guess this will never convince some bitter insecure Indian fans who will even compare an overrated bowler like Ashwin with him.
 
90MPH said:
Why is Ajmal being dragged here again ??

George Dobell explained his case very well last year but I guess this will never convince some bitter insecure Indian fans who will even compare an overrated bowler like Ashwin with him.
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHA very well said:pkflag
 
Saj said:
I wonder if we'll ever see the day when the ICC outlaws bowlers being allowed to bowl in long sleeve shirts.
Click to expand...

Why they will do so after allowing chucking formally? Banning full sleeves doesn't serve any purpose.
 
Poison said:
It's astounding that Kane gets zero attention and Ajmal/Bhajji/Murali got and have always gotten truckloads about their actions *racism card played*
Click to expand...

Maybe it's because those three are more high profile and better bowlers.

If Ashely Giles had had a suspect action and Shane Warne did, who do you think would be more likely to get more accusations aimed towards him?
 
ali bubba said:
Maybe it's because those three are more high profile and better bowlers.

If Ashely Giles had had a suspect action and Shane Warne did, who do you think would be more likely to get more accusations aimed towards him?
Click to expand...

Rightly explained.

It's the same reason why current foreign recruits of Eng gets more attention otherwise Eng always had plenty of foreign born cricketers in their team. Gun players are going to get more attention.
 
The Dobell thread from last year is well worth seeking out. It's a very convincing case as to the legality of Ajmal's action.
 
90MPH said:
Why is Ajmal being dragged here again ??

George Dobell explained his case very well last year but I guess this will never convince some bitter insecure Indian fans who will even compare an overrated bowler like Ashwin with him.
Click to expand...

Could you name the Indian posters who dragged Ajmal's name?
 
Varun said:
Yep it's not hard to put two and two together. Long sleeves have done the trick for Ajmal. Have a look at this stat:

After 13 matches:

Ajmal 59 wickets @ 33.5 , batting avg 12.75 with 1 fifty.
Ashwin 75 wickets @29.8, batting avg 42.8 with 1 hundred and 3 fifties.

Tests, obviously.
Click to expand...

Can you explain what magic there is in Anderson's shorter hair? :facepalm:

Everyone knows that Ajmal's doosra or off-spinner don't have more revolution or more speed than when he started so how do long sleeves affect anything?

At least I know that, if I had tiny muscles like Ajmal's, I would certainly always wear long
sleeves :p
 
I believe I read an analysis once that showed Ajmal takes many more wickets with his stock delivery than with his doosra. With mystery spin, the truth is we witness the threat of the doosra defeating batsmen in the mind more often than the actual doosra defeating a staunch forward defensive. With Ajmal at least, the chucking controversy originated as an enemy tactic to influence the media and in turn the ICC to deport him from the frontline because he was just too unusual, too dangerous and too good. And although the tactic was unethical its suspicion was well-founded, as twenty-four wickets in three Tests against England should demonstrate.
 
Just ban full sleeves if it's that much of an issue.
 
Honestly, I've always had doubts about his action.
 
Last edited:
I did always think his bowling action was borderline but there is worse in the international scene.

In defense of the long sleeves i think its also for his fielding. Hes a brilliant gully fielder so he would likely want to protect his forearms.
 
Just get him tested and if he passes that's the end of that.

Calling people Chuckers is all very well, but if the rule allows it, they aren't doing anything wrong. Instead of going around claiming these guys chuck, a simpler solution would to change the rule, which at the moment could be rather forgiving when it comes to chucking.

Also I think people have a wrong idea about chucking. Chucking isn't just a bent elbow. It's the straightening of the elbow joint beyond 15 degrees. It's also pretty much impossible to bowl without some degree of throwing it too.
 
Varun said:
Yep it's not hard to put two and two together. Long sleeves have done the trick for Ajmal. Have a look at this stat:

After 13 matches:

Ajmal 59 wickets @ 33.5 , batting avg 12.75 with 1 fifty.
Ashwin 75 wickets @29.8, batting avg 42.8 with 1 hundred and 3 fifties.

Tests, obviously.
Click to expand...

comparing Ajmal to Ashwin :facepalm: ICC has cleared Ajmal so I don't know why you guys have so many issues.
 
Lets face most of the mystery spinners chuck-Ajmal, Bhajji etc but if the authorities allow it then they will continue to chuck. They irony of the Blain statement is that had he said it against a non white bowler the victimhood brigade would be up in arms claiming racism.
 
Bewal Express said:
Lets face most of the mystery spinners chuck-Ajmal, Bhajji etc but if the authorities allow it then they will continue to chuck. They irony of the Blain statement is that had he said it against a non white bowler the victimhood brigade would be up in arms claiming racism.
Click to expand...

The only mystery about bhajji is how such a crap bowler took so many test wickets and played so many tests for India.
 
HamzaSaeen said:
comparing Ajmal to Ashwin :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Not really, Ashwin is a good bowler. It's just that we haven't pumped his tires up on the basis of a series or two, and he's developing well - having good home series against the West Indies on debut, then New Zealand and more recently, Australia. Can bat too. We'll see how he progresses over the next five years, at the moment he's doing a job reasonably well.

Ajmal and Pakistan's only major highlight on their CV since the start of this decade is the one series against England, and little (read: nothing) else. Yet he's made out to be the second coming of Murali, which I don't really understand. His stats tank outside of those three tests, and he hasn't been up to the task in even Lanka - unlike his contemporary in Swann (aside from South Africa, England, Australia, New Zealand - also proving inferior to Swann at these venues). Yet it's regarded as outrageous to place him as even the 2nd best tweaker going around? Come again?

Decent spinner is Saeed Ajmal, but cap it at that.
 
Last edited:
Varun said:
Not really, Ashwin is a good bowler. It's just that we haven't pumped his tires up on the basis of a series or two, and he's developing well - having good home series against the West Indies on debut, then New Zealand and more recently, Australia. Can bat too. We'll see how he progresses over the next five years, at the moment he's doing a job reasonably well.

Ajmal and Pakistan's only major highlight on their CV since the start of this decade is the one series against England, and little (read: nothing) else. Yet he's made out to be the second coming of Murali, which I don't really understand. His stats tank outside of those three tests, and he hasn't been up to the task in even Lanka - unlike Swann (aside from South Africa, England, Australia, New Zealand - also proving inferior to Swann).

Decent spinner is Saeed Ajmal, but cap it at that.
Click to expand...
Idk as a neutral I love to see the guy, he's one of those personalities you love to watch. Ashwin has a lot of promise, he should work on his batting more and he could be a potential number 6 in the future.
 
Last edited:
Varun said:
Not really, Ashwin is a good bowler. It's just that we haven't pumped his tires up on the basis of a series or two, and he's developing well - having good home series against the West Indies on debut, then New Zealand and more recently, Australia. Can bat too. We'll see how he progresses over the next five years, at the moment he's doing a job reasonably well.

Ajmal and Pakistan's only major highlight on their CV since the start of this decade is the one series against England, and little (read: nothing) else. Yet he's made out to be the second coming of Murali, which I don't really understand. His stats tank outside of those three tests, and he hasn't been up to the task in even Lanka - unlike his contemporary in Swann (aside from South Africa, England, Australia, New Zealand - also proving inferior to Swann at these venues). Yet it's regarded as outrageous to place him as even the 2nd best tweaker going around? Come again?

Decent spinner is Saeed Ajmal, but cap it at that.
Click to expand...

Ashwin is a good bowler, but nowhere near Ajmal. Who said Ajmal is the second coming of Murali? Call me when Ashwin becomes the best spinner in the world :ajmal
 
Kiwi said:
Idk as a neutral I love to see the guy, he's one of those personalities you love to watch. Ashwin has a lot of promise, he should work on his batting more and he could be a potential number 6 in the future.
Click to expand...

He's good, it's just that his fans are so snobbish that it gives a more dreary outlook on his overall picture than he deserves.

Swann in my book is comfortably the best spinner going around, with Ajmal a clear second, while you have the likes of Herath and Ashwin floating under the radar below these two.

But watch some Pakistanis below this post take some swipes at me for not placing him atop the list. It's inevitable, and that's what I mean.

And no, he should forget about his batting - Pakistan's fragile batting line-up notwithstanding. Batsmen bat and bowlers bowl, and he's the latter. It's not like he has a foundation with the bat to improve upon anyway - like Ashwin.

EDIT: Somebody was kind enough to kickstart the honours right above this post, in fact.
 
Last edited:
Varun said:
He's good, it's just that his fans are so snobbish that it gives a more dreary outlook on his overall picture than he deserves.

Swann in my book is comfortably the best spinner going around, with Ajmal a clear second, while you have the likes of Herath and Ashwin floating under the radar below these two.

But watch some Pakistanis below this post take some swipes at me for not placing him atop the list. It's inevitable, and that's what I mean.

And no, he should forget about his batting - Pakistan's fragile batting line-up notwithstanding. Batsmen bat and bowlers bowl, and he's the latter.
Click to expand...
He's a good all rounder prospect.
 
Varun said:
He's good, it's just that his fans are so snobbish that it gives a more dreary outlook on his overall picture than he deserves.

Swann in my book is comfortably the best spinner going around, with Ajmal a clear second, while you have the likes of Herath and Ashwin floating under the radar below these two.
Click to expand...

there is an easy way to sort it out- in english conditions its Swann, in sub continent its Ajmal. For me both are equals.
 
Kiwi said:
He's a good all rounder prospect.
Click to expand...

No. He averages 11 and 8 in tests and ODIs respectively. Maybe it's just Pakistan's batting line-up making him look better than he is. I remember Thisara Perera of all bowlers destroying them in a one-dayer at Lanka and Ajmal was one of the few who showed some fight from #11. Maybe he can make the move a couple of spots upward from there but that's about the limit.
 
HamzaSaeen said:
there is an easy way to sort it out- in english conditions its Swann, in sub continent its Ajmal. For me both are equals.
Click to expand...

Swann averages 22 in Lanka. Ajmal averages 30. Swann averages 28 in India, and 25 in the UAE where Ajmal averages 23.

Lanka distances them for mine - Swann wins. Swann won a game for them there after England had lost four in a row, keep in mind.
 
trogger said:
He's a pelter but the ICC have made chucking legal not because it's right but because it's politically easier than banning the cheats.
Click to expand...

More of a legal issue than politics. It's been scientifically proven beyond any doubt that most bowlers chuck according to the original rules of the game. You can't just ignore those findings. Obviously a limit has to be set on how much straightening is allowed otherwise there won't be any proper bowlers left except for a few leggies.
 
Not a fan of bowlers wearing long sleeves though, especially ones with suspect actions, unless of course it's chilly or something.
 
Swann wears long sleeves too.
Wore them in India and U.A.E too IIRC.
 
mithun_minhas said:
Why cannot bowlers wear short sleeves and bowl?

If they are clean, then they should not worry about getting caught.
Click to expand...

The same reason why not all fielders can wear sun-glasses, caps and have towels in their pockets while fielding.

I wonder why so many people think of themselves as better judges than the ICC when it comes to the actions of bowlers. Not only are they hurting the reputation of honest, hard-working cricketers like Ajmal and Kane but they also end up looking like idiots.
 
Varun said:
Swann averages 22 in Lanka. Ajmal averages 30. Swann averages 28 in India, and 25 in the UAE where Ajmal averages 23.

Lanka distances them for mine - Swann wins. Swann won a game for them there after England had lost four in a row, keep in mind.
Click to expand...

Ajmal averages 29 in England while Swann averages just under 29, Ajmal averages 14 in the West Indies while Swann averages 24. Along with Ajmal's superior averages in all three formats, he's the best spinner going around in my opinion. It is pretty close between the two because Swann has more experience.
 
Swann's Asia stats are better than Ajmal's Asia stats, which really surprised me especially considering the conditions are very familiar to Ajmal and less so to Swann.
 
James said:
Swann's Asia stats are better than Ajmal's Asia stats, which really surprised me especially considering the conditions are very familiar to Ajmal and less so to Swann.
Click to expand...

There isn't too much of a gap between these two. Some PPers project as if there is some noticeable gap. If some one is hell bent on nitpicking then they need to remember that Swan has played around 50 test match with his career record and Ajmal has played only around 25.

It's not easy to maintain high standards if you play lot of tests. I still remember some were over estimating Trott based on his initial performance.
 
Last edited:
Kiwi said:
He's a good all rounder prospect.
Click to expand...

Lol. Saw your original comment. You were talking about Ashwin, not Ajmal and I was refuting your claim.

I'll knock off that extra glass of beer off of tomorrow's beverage schedule.
 
so only 6 posts about kane and rest about ajmal....Williamson has the same kind of action like that SL spinner sananakke.The both don't go up to the limit till last second but while delivery they extand and use powers in arms and top of fingers to spin...Making it like chucking but not one.
 
James said:
Swann's Asia stats are better than Ajmal's Asia stats, which really surprised me especially considering the conditions are very familiar to Ajmal and less so to Swann.
Click to expand...

I am assuming we're talking Dubai when you say Asia, as I don't think Ajmal has played any Tests in Asia (exc Dubai) besides the one series in Lanka?

Swann is awesome though. The fact he got 4 wickets on a pitch that they don't usually pick him just last week shows that the man can give the ball a good twirl.
 
Last edited:
James said:
A defensive response IMO. There are much better ways to refute the accusations.
Click to expand...

I think it should be a blanket rule. Not defending anyone here really.
 
Varun said:
Not really, Ashwin is a good bowler. It's just that we haven't pumped his tires up on the basis of a series or two, and he's developing well - having good home series against the West Indies on debut, then New Zealand and more recently, Australia. Can bat too. We'll see how he progresses over the next five years, at the moment he's doing a job reasonably well.

Ajmal and Pakistan's only major highlight on their CV since the start of this decade is the one series against England, and little (read: nothing) else. Yet he's made out to be the second coming of Murali, which I don't really understand. His stats tank outside of those three tests, and he hasn't been up to the task in even Lanka - unlike his contemporary in Swann (aside from South Africa, England, Australia, New Zealand - also proving inferior to Swann at these venues). Yet it's regarded as outrageous to place him as even the 2nd best tweaker going around? Come again?

Decent spinner is Saeed Ajmal, but cap it at that.
Click to expand...

Currently the fourth best bowler in the World. 2nd best spinner in the World in the rankings.

I would call that more than just "decent".

There isn't much between Herath, Ajmal and Swann. Top tier spinners.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top