Karachi NA246 By-election & the Quota System

[Runner Up]

 

[Saeed]

This proves democracy doesn't work. Only way to punish MQM is military rule in Pakistan.

 

[Slog]

This proves democracy doesn't work. Only way to punish MQM is military rule in Pakistan.

Respect the mandate of the people

 

[Noora420]

oh really?

what are the latest figures

the ones I saw were like JI 32k and PTI 28k

so many figures out there. don't know which one to believe

Final Result: MQM 93k PTI 20k JI 10k

MQM got 13k more while PTI got 5k less than what I expected.

Congrats to Bhais for winning it fair and square, commiserations to burgers and bun kababs.

 

[Noora420]

A small correction, PTI got 22k

 

[Slog]

Final Result: MQM 93k PTI 20k JI 10k

MQM got 13k more while PTI got 5k less than what I expected.

Congrats to Bhais for winning it fair and square, commiserations to burgers and bun kababs.

tbh there was never any doubt in that area about who will be the victoru

even the pathans in the area voted for mqm.

but its more than that

MQM does actual work there. The MNA (apart from Gabol) makes regular visits of the area and the markets.

People can complain about their problem to the Area unit and get problems resolved quickly

and the area has one of the lowest crime rates in Karachi (prolly lowest period)

so mqm deserves the votes it gets there and which is why before this election they didn't even bother to go through the formality of campaigning there

 

[Saeed]

Respect the mandate of the people

Is is like saying that respect the corrupt system. Instead of changing themselves, people try to bring honest people to their level, no one respects honest people in Pakistan.

 

[Firebreaker]

When was the last time PTI actually won something

 

[Anchorman]

Is is like saying that respect the corrupt system. Instead of changing themselves, people try to bring honest people to their level, no one respects honest people in Pakistan.

What a weird stance to take. People have come out and voted for the party they want to lead in their area. Who are you to question their selection criteria? Respect their choice. Respect the mandate of the people. Karachi is still not fully ready to accept PTI, maybe they will be some time in the future, but not now.

This campaign will give PTI some experience as they've properly campaigned for the first time in Karachi. There are a lot of undecided voters that can swing towards their favor if they focus on Karachi.

 

[Bewal Express]

The MQM won the vote but their tactics and hooligan behaviour left a bitter taste but did anyone expect anything different?

 

[Bewal Express]

Final Result: MQM 93k PTI 20k JI 10k

MQM got 13k more while PTI got 5k less than what I expected.

Congrats to Bhais for winning it fair and square, commiserations to burgers and bun kababs.

Essentially the PTI/JI vote was the same as the election but happened to the 40 thousand MQM voters?

 

[KeyboardWarrior]

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Essentially the PTI/JI vote was the same as the election but happened to the 40 thousand MQM voters?

Rotte buhat hain PTI walle . ) .

 

[Strike!]

When was the last time PTI actually won something

They just won by-elections in Kashmir last month.

 

[saadibaba]

I thought MQM would take over 100,00 votes and PTI would be unable to take more than 10,000 votes, so in a way its a small victory for PTI. And it was all due to IK's personal attention, visits and jalsa in Karachi. If he can only spend even 10% of the time and energy he spends in Punjab, in Karachi. But like he said in the Karachi jalsa, he does not need Karachi to become PM. I think the point he was trying to make was he has come there to start the "Naya Karachi" movement rather than for one electoral seat but it gave away why he pays so little attention to the port city, considering its size, impact and influence as compared to smaller towns and villages in Punjab. For a supposedly ignored, jilted and always looking for attention Karachiite, that comment was like a dagger through the heart. At least MQM is their local party, either good or bad. Their win feels like Karachi's win.

 

[Syed1]

Is quam ka koi haal nahi hai..

 

[saeedhk]

When was the last time PTI actually won something

A few days a ago in Mirpur and that too against the PPP and PML-N.

 

[junaid.ahmed]

This proves democracy doesn't work. Only way to punish MQM is military rule in Pakistan.

its history that they are more powerful under military rule

 

[junaid.ahmed]

so after 10-12 days getup of sharafat they tore it last night at karimabad & came out in their actual

 

[junaid.ahmed]

it was never the question that mqm will lose in their house, it was the question that how much votes they gain & it reduced significantly around 40%

 

[Couch Cricketer]

PTI did a lot better than I expected. Specially looking at the turnout. they just lost 9000 votes. And I think those can even be attributed to JI standing this time for elections as well.

 

[Waseem]

PTI did a lot better than I expected. Specially looking at the turnout. they just lost 9000 votes. And I think those can even be attributed to JI standing this time for elections as well.

Yes PTI didn't do too badly at all, i think people were expecting MQM to have lost some popularity more than any gains for PTI as it is impossible to gain much when you are not in government.

It also proves that MQM is not going anywhere any time soon and they can even get away with murders, Altaf just have to shed some tears. Instead of hoping for MQM to disappear, it's in best interest of Karachi and Pakistan that we should hope for somehow Altaf to disappear instead and then MQM can cleanse itself (hopefully).

 

[junaid.ahmed]

onething is sure that only mqm can bring the change in karachi but for this they have to change themselves otherwise I am afraid it will be army who will bring the change & we all know how they works

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I honestly feel sad and despondent on days like this.

Not because I wanted Imran Khan to win ( I personally don't like him) , but as an Urdu speaker and seeing what has happened over the years, I feel sad.

I know the people of Karachi are supposed to be quite literate.

So when they make emotional decisions like these, supporting MQM despite its known involvement in underhand deep destruction politics, I feel it hurts the credibility of Pakistan more.

People have voted for a party that has ruled by oppression, turbulence, violence, and played with emotions of people most of the times.

If I had anything to say today, it would be system of Pakistan has failed.

Not because people decided not to vote for PTI, but because people failed to grow despite being shown that the party that they supported is nothing more than breeding ground for worst kind of violence over the years.

I am done with politics of this nation for some time.

In order to get change, you need to want change.

People of Karachi have proved that they don't want any change, just the random repetition of violence and throwaway romanticism of the past.

We can keep living in denial of 20 years back, where MQM is supposedly one day going to rescue the people of Karachi from being an ethnic minority.

But it will never happen.

But my beautiful Karachi, will never grow either.

 

[JaDed]

I honestly feel sad and despondent on days like this.

Not because I wanted Imran Khan to win ( I personally don't like him) , but as an Urdu speaker and seeing what has happened over the years, I feel sad.

I know the people of Karachi are supposed to be quite literate.

So when they make emotional decisions like these, supporting MQM despite its known involvement in underhand deep destruction politics, I feel it hurts the credibility of Pakistan more.

People have voted for a party that has ruled by oppression, turbulence, violence, and played with emotions of people most of the times.

If I had anything to say today, it would be system of Pakistan has failed.

Not because people decided not to vote for PTI, but because people failed to grow despite being shown that the party that they supported is nothing more than breeding ground for worst kind of violence over the years.

I am done with politics of this nation for some time.

In order to get change, you need to want change.

People of Karachi have proved that they don't want any change, just the random repetition of violence and throwaway romanticism of the past.

We can keep living in denial of 20 years back, where MQM is supposedly one day going to rescue the people of Karachi from being an ethnic minority.

But it will never happen.

But my beautiful Karachi, will never grow either.

Systems takes decades to evolve just saying.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Systems takes decades to evolve just saying.

System has been losing face and ground for decades already.

People still are stubborn and I don't see that changing anytime sadly, especially when one of the supposedly literate cities of Pakistan refuses to budge and plays the ethnic minority MQM support card to garner votes even after the party was publicly shamed.

 

[JaDed]

System has been losing face and ground for decades already.

People still are stubborn and I don't see that changing anytime sadly, especially when one of the supposedly literate cities of Pakistan refuses to budge and plays the ethnic minority MQM support card to garner votes even after the party was publicly shamed.

I haven't certain Mohajir friends from Karachi and they don't trust Imran or PTI at all and i'm talking abt young individuals.MQM has a build a network with many families in Karachi can you say the same about PTI?
Just to have music concerts and empty slogans doesn't mean making the connection with people.
AAP inspite of terrible performance in National elections 6 months before performed very well in the local elections because they went to most mohallas(localities) and connected with the locals.

 

[JaDed]

Have*

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

The reason People of Karachi didn't vote for PTI is because they didn't see PTI as an alternative to MQM . People know that MQM is bad but they also know that it is the only local party with its roots in karachi , its lesser of two evils. Its not like karachi never voted for national level parties before but they were let down. Another problem is IK's and PTI's bongiyyan ( zinda lashein, we are coming to liberate Karachi , Don't need Karachi to be P.M and so on ) .If you wanna win Karachi then show them some respect , show them that you are really gonna work for them . Have something bold to say about teh grievances of the locals .Start with the the quota system .

 

[Slog]

I honestly feel sad and despondent on days like this.

Not because I wanted Imran Khan to win ( I personally don't like him) , but as an Urdu speaker and seeing what has happened over the years, I feel sad.

I know the people of Karachi are supposed to be quite literate.

So when they make emotional decisions like these, supporting MQM despite its known involvement in underhand deep destruction politics, I feel it hurts the credibility of Pakistan more.

People have voted for a party that has ruled by oppression, turbulence, violence, and played with emotions of people most of the times.

If I had anything to say today, it would be system of Pakistan has failed.

Not because people decided not to vote for PTI, but because people failed to grow despite being shown that the party that they supported is nothing more than breeding ground for worst kind of violence over the years.

I am done with politics of this nation for some time.

In order to get change, you need to want change.

People of Karachi have proved that they don't want any change, just the random repetition of violence and throwaway romanticism of the past.

We can keep living in denial of 20 years back, where MQM is supposedly one day going to rescue the people of Karachi from being an ethnic minority.

But it will never happen.

But my beautiful Karachi, will never grow either.

Same with PML-N

They won every seat in Lahore and even IK lost the seat he stood on despite PML-N causing more destruction to the nation than MQM ever has

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Aaj Karachi Chalta hai to Pakistan Palta hai,
Karachi ho doorne do , poori Pakistan ko dooraa dey ga. - Khalid Maqbool Saddiqui

 

[Couch Cricketer]

I honestly feel sad and despondent on days like this.

Not because I wanted Imran Khan to win ( I personally don't like him) , but as an Urdu speaker and seeing what has happened over the years, I feel sad.

I know the people of Karachi are supposed to be quite literate.

So when they make emotional decisions like these, supporting MQM despite its known involvement in underhand deep destruction politics, I feel it hurts the credibility of Pakistan more.

People have voted for a party that has ruled by oppression, turbulence, violence, and played with emotions of people most of the times.

If I had anything to say today, it would be system of Pakistan has failed.

Not because people decided not to vote for PTI, but because people failed to grow despite being shown that the party that they supported is nothing more than breeding ground for worst kind of violence over the years.

I am done with politics of this nation for some time.

In order to get change, you need to want change.

People of Karachi have proved that they don't want any change, just the random repetition of violence and throwaway romanticism of the past.

We can keep living in denial of 20 years back, where MQM is supposedly one day going to rescue the people of Karachi from being an ethnic minority.

But it will never happen.

But my beautiful Karachi, will never grow either.

Go and meet the people that actually voted for MQM in this election for this seat. Thing is despite all its ills MQM elected representatives are around for people of the area to listen to and solve their problems. People think that MQM is supported by urdu speaking population alone but that is untrue they have good support from the middle to lower class people from all ethnicities in the area.
Nabeel Gabol was not active in the community if he had stayed in power for the whole term MQM would have lost a lot of support as people were getting dissatisfied with him. But he left early and that hurt the democratic process a bit. People will start voting for better people once they start believing in the democratic process and have the belief that their votes matter. I agree with PTI about improving the voting system as when its all said and done who is elected should not matter as much as that the person elected was not someone that stole the peoples mandate.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Go and meet the people that actually voted for MQM in this election for this seat. Thing is despite all its ills MQM elected representatives are around for people of the area to listen to and solve their problems. People think that MQM is supported by urdu speaking population alone but that is untrue they have good support from the middle to lower class people from all ethnicities in the area.
Nabeel Gabol was not active in the community if he had stayed in power for the whole term MQM would have lost a lot of support as people were getting dissatisfied with him. But he left early and that hurt the democratic process a bit. People will start voting for better people once they start believing in the democratic process and have the belief that their votes matter. I agree with PTI about improving the voting system as when its all said and done who is elected should not matter as much as that the person elected was not someone that stole the peoples mandate.

I don't particularly support PTI anyways.

But I can't bring myself to support a party that garners vote through violence and force and still manages to get them, even being publicly shamed.

That's complete lack of progress whether you like it or not.

 

[Waseem]

I haven't certain Mohajir friends from Karachi and they don't trust Imran or PTI at all and i'm talking abt young individuals.MQM has a build a network with many families in Karachi can you say the same about PTI?
Just to have music concerts and empty slogans doesn't mean making the connection with people.
AAP inspite of terrible performance in National elections 6 months before performed very well in the local elections because they went to most mohallas(localities) and connected with the locals.

Well it took MQM 30 years to build this network, PMLN has built that network in Punjab and PPP has done that in internal Sindh. What does that prove?? PPP sells Bhutto's name, PMLN sells Lahore and it's image and MQM sells the word "Muhajir". What has this network given them? Ignoring recent weeks, dozens get killed everyday, millions of rs of bhatta is collected from businessmen, majority of businessmen have left Karachi and are investing in Bangladesh, Malaysia etc
As for PTI doing NOTHING, if they only change police system in KPK which MQM couldn't do in 3 decades (especially during Musharaff era) then it's better than MQM already. Even Jamat e Islami did great work in Karachi and they connect with people well.

 

[saadibaba]

The reason People of Karachi didn't vote for PTI is because they didn't see PTI as an alternative to MQM . People know that MQM is bad but they also know that it is the only local party with its roots in karachi , its lesser of two evils. Its not like karachi never voted for national level parties before but they were let down. Another problem is IK's and PTI's bongiyyan ( zinda lashein, we are coming to liberate Karachi , Don't need Karachi to be P.M and so on ) .If you wanna win Karachi then show them some respect , show them that you are really gonna work for them . Have something bold to say about teh grievances of the locals .Start with the the quota system .

Exactly. IK's attitude reaked of arrogance and entitlement. "I don't need this seat from Karachi to become PM yet I'm still here". Oh Bhai jao ja ke kisi aur pe ye ihsaan karo. If you want Karachi to vote for you then you shouldn't give explanations as to why you are there. Karachi doesn't need your sympathies, thank you very much.

 

[saadibaba]

* reeked

 

[Slog]

MQM will lose all basis of its support through the Mohajir card the day the quota system is abolished. And its in everyones interest it seems to make sure it doesnt get ablolished.

Problem is the Urdu speaking people on PP or the ones you meet in the US and UK are the well off and very educated ones with good jobs etc. So we never have had to deal with all the troubles, hassles and downright discrimination an Urdu speaking guy from a less well off background suffers from.

Urdu speaking people who unfortunately are not from well off families or dont have money, cannot get government jobs, suffer through red tape in every administrative process (like passports, ID's), and are rejected from good educational institutions for people who are not as qualified just because their home address is in interior Sindh. So it is easy for MQM to play on these emotions and hence get votes. Now its quite clear MQM has failed to address it but along with its unwillingness to seriously solve this problem (mainly because thats how it initially got its support), there is also the small matter of the fact that it never has been a senior partner in a Sindh Government, let alone the Federal government so really does not have the authority to even attempt that. Ofcourse its hypocrisy comes out in the fact that its very happy to get in government with the same guys who brough this oppressive law (PPP). But then it can claim that it does get into the govt for the greater good of keeping Karachi safe which is all hogwash but is easy to sell. Mainly all politcial parties in Sindh choona lagatai hain

Anyways its no surprise that PTI got its seat from the areas of Defence, Clifton etc. Basically areas which have very well off familes and hence an Urdu speaking from this family is unlikely to ever face any problems brought on by the quota system. So they have less reason to resonate with MQM's propaganda and hence will be more open to vote for other parties.I was lucky that my parents put me in a good school which has students from much more diverse socio economic statuses so I was not kept ignorant in these matters and learnt the real issues rather than just cussing people who vote for MQM.

So basically the reason is that despite all its issues, MQM still voices the problems being faced at a national level. None of the other parties, including PTI, have ever talked about the quota system let alone abolishing it. Only Imran Ismail in the recent election brought it up but even he brought it up in the sense that MQM hs failed to solve it rather than saying that he and PTI will try to disband this law. So the message is to dont insult the intelligence of people who do vote for MQM. In any case in NA 246 MQM would have won elections regardless of the situation because it does actual. tangible work in this area and is ready to solve the problems of the people within days of a complaint. There is no strong reason not to vote for MQM if you are only or mostly concerned with your constituency.

Also IK statement that he does not need Karachi for its goals and is basically doing an ehsaan by campaigning doesnt go down well either. Even I despite being a PTI voter didnt like it.

 

[Waseem]

The reason People of Karachi didn't vote for PTI is because they didn't see PTI as an alternative to MQM . People know that MQM is bad but they also know that it is the only local party with its roots in karachi , its lesser of two evils. Its not like karachi never voted for national level parties before but they were let down. Another problem is IK's and PTI's bongiyyan ( zinda lashein, we are coming to liberate Karachi , Don't need Karachi to be P.M and so on ) .If you wanna win Karachi then show them some respect , show them that you are really gonna work for them . Have something bold to say about teh grievances of the locals .Start with the the quota system .

A man while addressing people starts laughing and then 2 minutes later starts crying and then singing, abuses women calling women in protests heera mandi ki aurtain and zinda lashein say jee bhai jee bhai bilkul theek kaha. He threatens people asking them to be prepared for bori and zinda lashain say jee bhai jee bhai bilkul theek, he abuses extremely offensive and threatening language which result in killing of Zahra Shahid and many others. Then his "I resign" episodes everyday, resigns in the morning followed by nahi bhai plz bhai and then ok i take it back and repeats this more often than drama serial espisodes. If you are not zinda lashain then how on earth do you take such man seriously?? I can go on and on about Altaf's bongiyan but waste of time to be honest. As for comments on Karachi, he clearly said that Nawaz doesn't even bother coming to Karachi because he knows he doesn't need Karachi to become PM, i can do the same as well but i want to change Karachi.

 

[Neferpitou]

What were the final numbers?

 

[Waseem]

what were the final numbers?

mqm 95000
pti 25000
ji 10000

 

[Neferpitou]

mqm 95000
pti 25000
ji 10000

Damn. At least they came 2nd.

 

[saadibaba]

A man while addressing people starts laughing and then 2 minutes later starts crying and then singing, abuses women calling women in protests heera mandi ki aurtain and zinda lashein say jee bhai jee bhai bilkul theek kaha. He threatens people asking them to be prepared for bori and zinda lashain say jee bhai jee bhai bilkul theek, he abuses extremely offensive and threatening language which result in killing of Zahra Shahid and many others. Then his "I resign" episodes everyday, resigns in the morning followed by nahi bhai plz bhai and then ok i take it back and repeats this more often than drama serial espisodes. If you are not zinda lashain then how on earth do you take such man seriously?? I can go on and on about Altaf's bongiyan but waste of time to be honest. As for comments on Karachi, he clearly said that Nawaz doesn't even bother coming to Karachi because he knows he doesn't need Karachi to become PM, i can do the same as well but i want to change Karachi.

Yet he still wins. Even after all that. We conducted the fairest most impartial by-election in the history of Karachi and his party still managed to come out way on top. What does it tell you.

Everyone in Karachi knows what MQM is....they probably know more than the armchair analysts on this forum who probably have never even been to Karachi or if so maybe to the posh areas and the beach. It's a grass root party born out of genuine grievances and not a populist dharna/jalsa/concert fad that has recently become its own parody.

All you need to know about PTI's clueless and arrogant strategy to think that people of Karachi will just flock to their door because of their media fame and fashionably cool reputation is picking a guy from DHA to run for elections in Azizabad area. These two areas could not be further apart in every way, yet, PTI thought all they need to do is put someone on the ballot who can talk the talk on TV shows and people of Azizabad will just forget everything.

I should post the article from Dawn about how on the day of byelection, Imran Ismail was having pizza at the PizzaHut with his entourage and driving around in his Land Cruiser spending time giving non stop interview to media channels while Sattar and others were amongst the voters, going from poling booth to pooling booth, making sure their supporters are coming out to vote for them. It's called organization, commitment and hard work. Bongiyan marne se vote nahi mil jate. MQM is a mafia, but it's a mafia which doesn't take people's intelligence for granted. They do their fair share of work to win the votes.

So yes, Altaf can sing, dance, cry, moan, etc. as really no one cares what he is saying, its what his party is doing on the ground that counts. In that sense, people of Karachi are actually smart and opposite to zinda laashain as they don't get swayed by empty words and half hearted promises. I guess the bhatta khori, theft, murders etc. are not enough to alienate the voters just yet. Maybe they think that all of it is not really MQM's fault or even if some of it is, that's how politics operate in that area.

Whatever it is, MQM has managed to come out of yet another operation looking better, more efficient and united. Operations tend to suit MQM it seems.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Yet he still wins. Even after all that. We conducted the fairest most impartial by-election in the history of Karachi and his party still managed to come out way on top. What does it tell you.

Everyone in Karachi knows what MQM is....they probably know more than the armchair analysts on this forum who probably have never even been to Karachi or if so maybe to the posh areas and the beach. It's a grass root party born out of genuine grievances and not a populist dharna/jalsa/concert fad that has recently become its own parody.

All you need to know about PTI's clueless and arrogant strategy to think that people of Karachi will just flock to their door because of their media fame and fashionably cool reputation is picking a guy from DHA to run for elections in Azizabad area. These two areas could not be further apart in every way, yet, PTI thought all they need to do is put someone on the ballot who can talk the talk on TV shows and people of Azizabad will just forget everything.

I should post the article from Dawn about how on the day of byelection, Imran Ismail was having pizza at the PizzaHut with his entourage and driving around in his Land Cruiser spending time giving non stop interview to media channels while Sattar and others were amongst the voters, going from poling booth to pooling booth, making sure their supporters are coming out to vote for them. It's called organization, commitment and hard work. Bongiyan marne se vote nahi mil jate. MQM is a mafia, but it's a mafia which doesn't take people's intelligence for granted. They do their fair share of work to win the votes.

So yes, Altaf can sing, dance, cry, moan, etc. as really no one cares what he is saying, its what his party is doing on the ground that counts. In that sense, people of Karachi are actually smart and opposite to zinda laashain as they don't get swayed by empty words and half hearted promises. I guess the bhatta khori, theft, murders etc. are not enough to alienate the voters just yet. Maybe they think that all of it is not really MQM's fault or even if some of it is, that's how politics operate in that area.

Whatever it is, MQM has managed to come out of yet another operation looking better, more efficient and united. Operations tend to suit MQM it seems.

The irony could not be stronger.

And while on topic, I would like to just add, that if people of Karachi want to vote for a mass murderer party, that's their mandate.

No one is denying that.

But please don't twist that into something rosy, as a great victory for MQM, and an eye opener for others. It's a tragedy that a nation which is down in the dumps, and Karachi is supposedly an educated city, still wants to support a violence oriented party because of either lack of better alternatives or because they are being blinded by emotion.

As long as we stick to ... "But that's what the people want" It's fine.

But when it becomes, "That's a huge victory, Everything is fine. Status quo has been maintained, despite evidence that it shouldn't have been maintained, it's a huge problem.


Pity the nation that despite seeing truth in different angles, plays the emotional and racial card , to get victories.

 

[Mamoon]

What people don't realize is that MQM is the only party in Karachi that actually listened to the problems of the locals and does something for them. People outside of this scope only look at Altaf bhai and his shenanigans, but in the grand scheme of things, it means nothing.

Locals in Punjab are happy with PML-N, because they work for them. Why should Karachites and Punjabis put self-interest over national interest?

Kaptaan's superficial promises, empty slogans, selling himself to the locals by claiming he's half Pathan and half Muhajir is not going to work in Karachi.

People living in Karachi, the locals, have a completely different perception of MQM compared to the people who simply don't have any first-hand experience.

 

[Neferpitou]

What people don't realize is that MQM is the only party in Karachi that actually listened to the problems of the locals and does something for them. People outside of this scope only look at Altaf bhai and his shenanigans, but in the grand scheme of things, it means nothing.

Locals in Punjab are happy with PML-N, because they work for them. Why should Karachites and Punjabis put self-interest over national interest?

Kaptaan's superficial promises, empty slogans, selling himself to the locals by claiming he's half Pathan and half Muhajir is not going to work in Karachi.

People living in Karachi, the locals, have a completely different perception of MQM compared to the people who simply don't have any first-hand experience.

The bitter truth. Although I wish it wasn't.

 

[saeedhk]

It is wrong to say Punjabis are happy under the government.You
just have to go to Punjab and have a look.

People are made to vote for the TTFs due to the baradari system and feudalism.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

What people don't realize is that MQM is the only party in Karachi that actually listened to the problems of the locals and does something for them. People outside of this scope only look at Altaf bhai and his shenanigans, but in the grand scheme of things, it means nothing.

Locals in Punjab are happy with PML-N, because they work for them. Why should Karachites and Punjabis put self-interest over national interest?

Kaptaan's superficial promises, empty slogans, selling himself to the locals by claiming he's half Pathan and half Muhajir is not going to work in Karachi.

People living in Karachi, the locals, have a completely different perception of MQM compared to the people who simply don't have any first-hand experience.

MQM has also done false promises and given nothing.

Although PTI just stole the show with statements like "Karachi means nothing to him" and "I can be PM without Karachi".

But if we are talking about promises, then nothing has been realized on either front for last 60 years.

Lots of Karachi people are unhappy with MQM too. But they fear the murder and Ghunda Ghardi methods of MQM.

It's always better to be a live chicken then a dead duck.

 

[Mamoon]

Of course MQM is far from perfect, but Karachites still chose to vote for them. Why?

Same goes for PML-N and Punjab. If you think they are better alternatives you would opt for them. We thought we had a better alternative in KPK because ANP had lost all support and we saw PTI as the strongest alternative.

There's a reason why PTI won majority in KPK only, because only we were dissatisfied at a micro-level and saw a better alternative.

It's the power of aam admi that counts, not elitist burgers who are not aware of the problems at grass-root levels and nor will their lives change no matter who wins the election.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Of course MQM is far from perfect, but Karachites still chose to vote for them. Why?

Same goes for PML-N and Punjab. If you think they are better alternatives you would opt for them. We thought we had a better alternative in KPK because ANP had lost all support and we saw PTI as the strongest alternative.

There's a reason why PTI won majority in KPK only, because only we were dissatisfied at a micro-level and saw a better alternative.

It's the power of aam admi that counts, not elitist burgers who are not aware of the problems at grass-root levels and nor will their lives change no matter who wins the election.

Of course, who would vote for party whose potential future candidate hits a bongi that "I do not need vote of Karachi , for becoming Prime Minister in Pakistan"..

That one just takes all the accolades.

After that he's lucky, he got 20000 votes.

 

[Mamoon]

Of course, who would vote for party whose potential future candidate hits a bongi that "I do not need vote of Karachi , for becoming Prime Minister in Pakistan"..

That one just takes all the accolades.

After that he's lucky, he got 20000 votes.

Perhaps his biggest bongi post-2013 election (and there have been many).

 

[Bewal Express]

MQM has also done false promises and given nothing.

Although PTI just stole the show with statements like "Karachi means nothing to him" and "I can be PM without Karachi".

But if we are talking about promises, then nothing has been realized on either front for last 60 years.

Lots of Karachi people are unhappy with MQM too. But they fear the murder and Ghunda Ghardi methods of MQM.

It's always better to be a live chicken then a dead duck.

Isnt NS the PM without any help from the MQM. Its a statement of fact!

 

[Anchorman]

Agree with every word that [MENTION=2071]saadibaba[/MENTION] has said regarding MQM and Karachi.

 

[Mamoon]

Isnt NS the PM without any help from the MQM. Its a statement of fact!

Did Nawaz tell the people of Karachi that he does not need their votes to become PM? He commands the strongest majority in Pakistan - Punjab - win Punjab and you will become the PM.

It may be a statement of fact that you can be PM without Karachi, but that's not something that you tell them as part of your campaign. Kaptaan continues to show what a joke of a politician he is, and of course people will defend whatever he says/does.

 

[Vegitto1]

It's quite clear that people on this forum are once again missing the point. This by-election has strengthened PTI more than anything else.

NA246 is Nine-Zero. Home of MQM, Their fortress. Expecting PTI to win from here was like expecting them to win against PPP in Garhi Khuda Bakhsh or against PML-N in Gawal Mandi. PTI proved that it is capable of fielding candidates all over the country whereas PPP is limited to Northern Sindh and PML-N is limited to Punjab. I would love to see someone brave enough to stand a candidate against PTI in Peshawar and see how that goes.

PTI's candidate and took 25,000 votes compared to JI's 9000 votes and MQM's 95,000 votes. PTI saw an increase whereas MQM saw a decline in its vote percentage since the 2013 election.

This is how the process works, but I don't expect supporters of certain parties to understand since they only know one way of coming to power. Selling themselves to the highest bidder....ARMY.

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes indeed a terrible politician, creating a party from scratch and winning millions of votes is a real sign of failure. Keep repeating rubbish and hope that it becomes fact. As far as the comment goes, I have to see the full context BUT it may have been a gaff and all politicians make these from time to time but the fact is that for the MQM it was a matter of life of death, and what could be greater gaff than TAFA the warlord threatening to and actually having people killed and it having very little effect on the core vote bank.

 

[Bewal Express]

BTW when did you turn into TAFA the warlord?

 

[KeyboardWarrior]

It's quite clear that people on this forum are once again missing the point. This by-election has strengthened PTI more than anything else.

NA246 is Nine-Zero. Home of MQM, Their fortress. Expecting PTI to win from here was like expecting them to win against PPP in Garhi Khuda Bakhsh or against PML-N in Gawal Mandi. PTI proved that it is capable of fielding candidates all over the country whereas PPP is limited to Northern Sindh and PML-N is limited to Punjab. I would love to see someone brave enough to stand a candidate against PTI in Peshawar and see how that goes.

PTI's candidate and took 25,000 votes compared to JI's 9000 votes and MQM's 95,000 votes. PTI saw an increase whereas MQM saw a decline in its vote percentage since the 2013 election.

This is how the process works, but I don't expect supporters of certain parties to understand since they only know one way of coming to power. Selling themselves to the highest bidder....ARMY.

How ?

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]

Yes, by selling his name. It's not hard to gain followers when you are a household name already.

If someone like Afridi becomes a politician as well and forms his own party, he too will have million of votes. That doesn't make anyone a good politician and he clearly isn't one. Has no control over what he says and is highly impulsive.

I'm into Altaf bhai, I despise him as much as any sane individual would, but that has nothing to do with Kaptaan's latest chuss. Couldn't stop laughing when he said that.

 

[Mamoon]

I'm not into Altaf bhai*

 

[Bewal Express]

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]

Yes, by selling his name. It's not hard to gain followers when you are a household name already.

If someone like Afridi becomes a politician as well and forms his own party, he too will have million of votes. That doesn't make anyone a good politician and he clearly isn't one. Has no control over what he says and is highly impulsive.

I'm into Altaf bhai, I despise him as much as any sane individual would, but that has nothing to do with Kaptaan's latest chuss. Couldn't stop laughing when he said that.

You dont half write some rubbish- if that was the case then he would have had the votes since the mid 90`s when he started the party. Maybe he wasnt well known in the mid 90`s, afterall he had only won the WC only 4 years earlier and that was kept a secret from the population and they didnt know who he was. You must be one of the dullest doctors out there.

 

[endymion248]

To be fair, I don't understand what's wrong with that statement from IK. What he meant is obviously that people often accuse him to be obsessed with becoming PM but he can become PM without Karachi; the fact that he is still campaigning in Karachi means that he genuinely cares about its improvements rather than his own self-interest.
[MENTION=2071]saadibaba[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] : What's wrong with quota system? That land has been a part of Sindh for thousands of years yet they are heavily under-represented in educative institutions and government. Do you also oppose affirmative action in US colleges?

 

[Mamoon]

You dont half write some rubbish- if that was the case then he would have had the votes since the mid 90`s when he started the party. Maybe he wasnt well known in the mid 90`s, afterall he had only won the WC only 4 years earlier and that was kept a secret from the population and they didnt know who he was. You must be one of the dullest doctors out there.

Missing the point as usual.

Imran is not a politician himself, he cannot run a party on his own. You need seasoned politicians on your side who can exploit local people and win them votes.

It took years for Imran to recruit enough lotas to contest an election because all these lotas were well established elsewhere. To attract them, Imran used his name - PTI is nothing without Imran, and Imran has no political history and achievements - he used his name the he earned in the cricketing world.

Have you ever thought why the thousands of young people who had no interested in politics suddenly became social media activists when PTI became big enough? They are nothing but Kaptaan fan boys, who are in love with what he achieved in the cricketing world.

On the same note, there is a reason why their is so much relentless support for PTI on this forum - it's for cricket obsessed people, most of whom are expat Pakistanis in love with Imran Khan the cricketer and followed him in politics because of hero-worshipping. As if they actually care about Naya Pakistan from North America or Europe, where they are residing. They probably won't even step foot in Naya Pakistan.

On the other hand, Kaptaan himself takes all of this as a cricket match with his ridiculous cricketing analogies of how he will clean bowl Nawaz and all that nonsense, effectively selling his achievements in cricket in the world of politics.

What happened to the Umpire ki Ungli btw? Where was that ungli when he returned to the Parliament in awkward fashion after a millionth U-turn?

Let's not talk about who is dull and who isn't. It's not me who is a proud supporter of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Idiots.

 

[Mamoon]

)

Lahore rejects Kaptaan again. PML-N wins 15/20 seats in Lahore Cantonment. If they cannot win Cantonment Board elections, I'm afraid they can't win any.

PML-N's victories in Cantonment Board elections across the country proves that blaming rigging for the 2013 defeat is not on any more.

Yes they could not win NA-246, but what's the excuse for losing in Cantonments?

#BurgerClassRejectsPTI trending on Twitter right now.

 

[Slog]

[MENTION=2071]saadibaba[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] : What's wrong with quota system? That land has been a part of Sindh for thousands of years yet they are heavily under-represented in educative institutions and government. Do you also oppose affirmative action in US colleges?

This has to be the most ridiculous post ever

Urdu speaking people dont have a history of systematically enslaving Sindhis and then destroying their bloodline and treating them like property.

Also quota system destroys the concept of merit.

Finally. Lot of people in the US oppose affirmative action too

 

[Firebreaker]

)

Lahore rejects Kaptaan again. PML-N wins 15/20 seats in Lahore Cantonment. If they cannot win Cantonment Board elections, I'm afraid they can't win any.

PML-N's victories in Cantonment Board elections across the country proves that blaming rigging for the 2013 defeat is not on any more.

Yes they could not win NA-246, but what's the excuse for losing in Cantonments?

#BurgerClassRejectsPTI trending on Twitter right now.

Wait for Rigging claims by IK again.

 

[endymion248]

This has to be the most ridiculous post ever

Urdu speaking people dont have a history of systematically enslaving Sindhis and then destroying their bloodline and treating them like property.

Also quota system destroys the concept of merit.

Finally. Lot of people in the US oppose affirmative action too

Quota systems or affirmative action are not an exhonoration for history but rather sometimes a consequence of it. To take the example of the US, black americans are under-represented in colleges and, from there, the higher socio-economical brackets. These include african-americans (who were negatively influenced by slavery) but also africans who immigrated to America. The objective of the affirmative action is to correct a problem(under-representation) at its downstream consequence (colleges), whatever the upstream reasons for the problem may be. They could be historical or not, which means that it is not about making amends.

If you are against quota systems, what do you advise to make it so that there are more Sindhis in Karachi education institutions or government, more women and religious minorities in Pakistan Assembly and so forth? Or is your point that rural Sindhis should stay in their under-privileged position and poverty because you only care about your own?

 

[endymion248]

I was asking the question because I am not familiar with ground situation. Ie maybe the quota system is unfair since Sindhis occupy most government position or are over-represented in education institution because of it. Or that the Sindhis who do benefit from quota system are waderas so the common rural Sindhi doesn't benefit from it. But it seems that you (and MQM) oppose the principle of it rather than the execution.

 

[Slog]

I was asking the question because I am not familiar with ground situation. Ie maybe the quota system is unfair since Sindhis occupy most government position or are over-represented in education institution because of it. Or that the Sindhis who do benefit from quota system are waderas so the common rural Sindhi doesn't benefit from it. But it seems that you (and MQM) oppose the principle of it rather than the execution.

Problem is simply this.

The aim of the quota system was not any feel good reason.

It was simply for vote bank politics

If the people who brought the quota system 40 or so years were really that sincere then at the same time they would have tried to bring improvements in rural Sindh itself

But the biggest reason I am against it is simply the abuse of it. Tbh calling it an abuse is not right because that is really the reason it was brought on. The Sindhis who use the quota system are prolly more privileged and from well off families than the rest of the city. And they live in Karachi too. But when they apply for these jobs/institutions instead of giving their home address in Karachi they register under their family address in interior Sindh. So they get guaranteed spots. So they had the same or usually better advantages than the Urdu speaking people in preparation but get a free pass basicallly. A poor rural Sindhi rarely ever gets to use the quota system. Its usually children of waderas.

Anyways regardless of all that your comparison with affirmative action in the US is lazy because there is no history of slavery and systematic persecution here as it was in the US

 

[endymion248]

Problem is simply this.

The aim of the quota system was not any feel good reason.

It was simply for vote bank politics

If the people who brought the quota system 40 or so years were really that sincere then at the same time they would have tried to bring improvements in rural Sindh itself

But the biggest reason I am against it is simply the abuse of it. Tbh calling it an abuse is not right because that is really the reason it was brought on. The Sindhis who use the quota system are prolly more privileged and from well off families than the rest of the city. And they live in Karachi too. But when they apply for these jobs/institutions instead of giving their home address in Karachi they register under their family address in interior Sindh. So they get guaranteed spots. So they had the same or usually better advantages than the Urdu speaking people in preparation but get a free pass basicallly. A poor rural Sindhi rarely ever gets to use the quota system. Its usually children of waderas.

Anyways regardless of all that your comparison with affirmative action in the US is lazy because there is no history of slavery and systematic persecution here as it was in the US

That is true for the US also. A lot of privileged black people benefit from it (especially rich elite from Africa). So, if you agree with the principle that there should be more Sindhis in Karachi schools and workforce, what would you replace the quota system with?

Like I said above, affirmative action is not about making amends for history. Hispanics also benefit from affirmative action while the Irish don't. The point of it is simply that you have a problem (under-representation in colleges) and the only horizontal solution (ie that the colleges can do) is offer more admissions.

Now, if the question is ''why are Sindhis under-represented'', I guess it could have various reasons. Less opportunities in rural areas, less wealth or maybe even discrimination in Karachi at job interviews (since people who speak Urdu with a sindhi accent are looked down upon and you are required to know urdu). But these require long-term fixes. Yes, quota system has been on for a long time but, like you said, it mostly benefitted elites who don't care about the poor (hence these problems have not been fixed it). But it probably still benefitted the poor rural than no quota at all. If it is scrapped then there should be a better alternative.

 

[Slog]

That is true for the US also. A lot of privileged black people benefit from it (especially rich elite from Africa). So, if you agree with the principle that there should be more Sindhis in Karachi schools and workforce, what would you replace the quota system with?

The sincerity is not there as nothing has been done to improve the condition of rural Sindhis.

And the issue is the ethnic based discrimination. Even in the US, the socioeconomic status of the relevant people is looked at but in Sindh it is just ethnicity and the language you speak.

Also why just in Karachi. Why not in these 40 years open universities and employment opportunities in rural Sindh. if it is so good hy has a quota system not been implemented in Lahore and other bug Punjab cities for the Seraiki people. Why not Hazaras in KPK and Balochistan. Esp the Hazara communities

Im sorry there is no justificaton for a law which states that there is no place for merit.

Also even in affirmative action a disadvantaged person with a similar skill level is given preference over a person from a privelaged background with the same qualifications. In the quota system a person who is much more qualified than the other candidate is rejected simply because he speaks Urdu at home.

 

[Slog]

Yes, quota system has been on for a long time but, like you said, it mostly benefitted elites who don't care about the poor (hence these problems have not been fixed it). But it probably still benefitted the poor rural than no quota at all. If it is scrapped then there should be a better alternative.

So you are absolutely fine in restricting the progress of the country by rejecting and alienating qualified people for people with little skill or background just because they speak a certain language?

Also quota system will be acceptable the day when it is scrapped

Or if it is introduced in Punjab and KPK and Balochistan aswell

 

[Mamoon]

Yes they do. At the very basic level, the party you represent does not matter; it's who you are is what wins you votes. For example, do you think Pervez Khattak won NA-5 in 2013 because he was representing PTI? Lol no, he won because he is Parvez Khattak. People in their district will vote for the same politicians, no matter whom they represent. Of course there always outliers, such as Sheikho losing in Pindi to Hashmi, but generally speaking, that's not the case so to claim that these lotas don't bring votes is rubbish.

Secondly, are you comparing my U-turn of not stopping posting on this forum to Kaptaan's political U-turns? The desperation is pitiful, not even laughable. No one cares whether I post or not, I'm just another member of a forum with hundreds of active posters and whether I post or not does not affect anyone and since it is a personal decision, I can take U-turns and change my mind as many times as I like.

However, when you are the leader of a political party with a million of followers and take such massive U-turns and embarrass not only yourself but the brainwashed masses that follow you, nothing more needs to be said.

 

[Slog]

^ Tbh PTI got seats in KPK mostly on the party ticket rather than personality. Khattak inning because of his name was definitely not the general norm. A lot of people went to the assembles for the first time merely because they were runnong on PTI ticket in KPK

The people who won seats in Punjab won mostly because of their name and biradri.

 

[Mamoon]

^ Tbh PTI got seats in KPK mostly on the party ticket rather than personality. Khattak inning because of his name was definitely not the general norm. A lot of people went to the assembles for the first time merely because they were runnong on PTI ticket in KPK

The people who won seats in Punjab won mostly because of their name and biradri.

That has been the case generally in KPK which is why PTI won majority, but not in Pervez Khattak's case specifically. He is well-respected figure in his district and someone who does a lot of work for his people.

People were extremely frustrated with the only leftist Pashtun Party in ANP, and the only alternative was PTI and Kaptaan did very well to exploit the Pashtun nationalism, which is our weak point.

 

[Slog]

That has been the case generally in KPK which is why PTI won majority, but not in Pervez Khattak's case specifically. He is well-respected figure in his district and someone who does a lot of work for his people.

People were extremely frustrated with the only leftist Pashtun Party in ANP, and the only alternative was PTI and Kaptaan did very well to exploit the Pashtun nationalism, which is our weak point.

I was talking generally as you gave the example of Khattak to say that the voting pattern for him was the norm.

 

[Mamoon]

I was talking generally as you gave the example of Khattak to say that the voting pattern for him was the norm.

Yeah I misunderstood your post.

 

[endymion248]

So you are absolutely fine in restricting the progress of the country by rejecting and alienating qualified people for people with little skill or background just because they speak a certain language?

Also quota system will be acceptable the day when it is scrapped

Or if it is introduced in Punjab and KPK and Balochistan aswell

In the long-term, there can't be progress without making full use of your potential and empowering the discriminated parts of society. If you give educative spots to poor Sindhis, their next generations will be more advanced and they will spread education and development in their respective regions so that, one day, you won't need quotas anymore.

Also, is there any proof that they would be worse at their jobs just because they don't have the same qualifications as other candidates? Someone who manages to get a good position in standardized tests while coming from a poor rural school without the same facilities as the guy from the elite Karachi school shows more intellect, motivation and passion despite scoring lower.

 

[endymion248]

Also to consider is that, even for the same intellect, same drive and same opportunities, a Sindhi student whose mother language is Sindhi will find it hard to compete with native speakers. Just because some guy from Karachi decided that Urdu should be the national language and Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Baluchi, Saraiki, Hindko,... are lingua non grata.

 

[farhan]

Current quota system in sindh is 60/40. Since there is no official censes in the country for many years.... wikipedia shows sindh's unofficial Population (2012 census preliminary)[1]
• Total 42,400,000
• Density 300/km2 (780/sq mi)
http://www.pwdsindh.gov.pk/


while stats for karachi Population (2013)
• Total 23,500,000[1]
• Rank 1st (Pakistan)

karachi covers roughly 55.4% of the total sindh population and in return gets only 32% of representation.. stats shows the injustice and biassness toward karachi...

Representation of karachi for national assembly 20/45 direct elected seats ( NA-239 TO NA-258 ) ...and for sindh assembly 42/130 direct elected seats ( PS-89 TO PS-130 )

And if we count urban hyderabad and sukkkur , then rural urban divide goes totally out of control.

wikipedia on quota system in sindh.

Quota system and ethnic clashes in Karachi[edit]
In 1973, the Government of Sindh imposed quota system in Sindh where the employment and admissions to the elite colleges and universities was not based on merit but on the ethnic origin and the place of residency.[13] The quota system in the province of Sindh was imposed in 1973 for 40 years but in 2013 it was extended for another 20 years.[14] In 2033, it will be 60 years of quota system in Sindh and according to some it will be extended for another 20 years. The Government of Sindh even after making huge investment in rural areas for the last 40 years failed to raise the educational standards in the rural areas.[15] In 2013 Sindh budget, over Rs 675 billion are spent on rural area development and Rs 30 billion in Karachi.[16] The huge investments in rural Sindh infrastructure and educational institutions in last 40 years has been mostly wasted due to the poor planning, political corruption, feudalism and apathy of the rural population. The quota system hit the Muhajir community. The nationalization of Pakistan's educational institutions, financial institutions and industry in 1972 by Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistan Peoples Party impacted the Muhajirs hardest as their educational institutions, commerce and industries were nationalized without any compensation.[17] Then the quota system was introduced that limited their access to the education and the public service employment. Karachi is the largest commercial city of Pakistan and the Muhajirs are the main stakeholder in this city. This city generates about 70% of Pakistan's revenue but this city is not governed by its local representatives as the elections of the local government was replaced by a commissioner.[18]

 

[Xohaib]

)

Lahore rejects Kaptaan again. PML-N wins 15/20 seats in Lahore Cantonment. If they cannot win Cantonment Board elections, I'm afraid they can't win any.

PML-N's victories in Cantonment Board elections across the country proves that blaming rigging for the 2013 defeat is not on any more.

Yes they could not win NA-246, but what's the excuse for losing in Cantonments?

#BurgerClassRejectsPTI trending on Twitter right now.

Pmln won most seats from central punjab while pti won from whole country.
Pmln is in government thats why they have won so much in punjab.
Pmln the biggest party of pakistan has won 2 wards in kpk. That too from hazara and fazlu your ally has won 0 seats.




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