Kashmiri reaction to Indian jets falling

[Wasim_Waqar]

In Azad Kashmir, Pakistan, the locals beat the pilot Abhi. The locals showered the army with rose petals!

In Budgam, Kashmir valley, the locals surrounded the plane, threw stones, and shouted Jeevay Jeevay Pakistan and slogans against India.

Kashmiris can’t defend themselves.

This is a glimpse of what would happen in a referendum. The myth of Kashmiri independence propagated by the west and India is nothing more than a farce not supported outside some parts of Srinagar and expats in UK and USA.

Long live Pakistan

 

[Haroon786]

Don't know about IOK, but AJK is for all intents and purposes, a part of Pakistan.

 

[Madplayer]

Don't know about IOK, but AJK is for all intents and purposes, a part of Pakistan.

You can see the video of Iok budgam crash online.

 

[RickyG]

You can see the video of Iok budgam crash online.

I've heard of it but haven't seen it. Is it real?

Trying to avoid propaganda stuff from both sides.

If the video is authentic then it proves that Pakistan downed two planes. It'll also further discredit the Indian army/gov't in front of their public.

So far, I've assumed that Pakistan has been more honest than India about everything.

 

[Syed1]

You can see the video of Iok budgam crash online.

I was honestly impressed by the size of the cajones of the Kashmiris there.... shouting pro-Pakistan slogans around the wreckage, while Indian army were trying to lock down the location.

 

[Haroon786]

You can see the video of Iok budgam crash online.

Don't get me wrong, I can only provide my own perspective here, which is I've been to AJK numerous times and have family there and am aware of the ground reality there, hence my opinion that AJK is Pakistani.

IOK probably does favour Pakistan and would be favourite to win a referendum if the conditions for it are ever satisfied.

 

[Syed1]

You can see the video of Iok budgam crash online.

Also what Haroon probably meant was if referendum is held in both Kashmirs I can bet my house 99% of Azad Kashmiris will say wanna stay with Pak, but percentage might be a bit lower in Occupied Kashmir.

 

[Haroon786]

Also what Haroon probably meant was if referendum is held in both Kashmirs I can bet my house 99% of Azad Kashmiris will say wanna stay with Pak, but percentage might be a bit lower in Occupied Kashmir.

Yeah, AJK staying with Pakistan is a foregone conclusion should a referendum take place.

 

[Kashmirilion]

Two words. Paaaaakistaaaaan zindaaabaad.

 

[pillionrider]

That Kashmir has turned into a cauldron under Modi is a fact. The stats don't lie.

However Pakistanis who live in hope that Indian Kashmir will ever be a part of Pakistan in their lifetime are smoking a pipe dream.

Kashmiris on this side who want to be part of Pak - their best bet is to cross the border and take up citizenship in POK. While you will find segments in India who are sympathetic to a Kashmiri's voice for independence (I include myself in this category), you will find close to none willing to cede it to Pak

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Don't know about IOK, but AJK is for all intents and purposes, a part of Pakistan.

Check here:

https://twitter.com/BurhanSpeaks/status/1100683852119306241?s=20

 

[rhony]

That Kashmir has turned into a cauldron under Modi is a fact. The stats don't lie.

However Pakistanis who live in hope that Indian Kashmir will ever be a part of Pakistan in their lifetime are smoking a pipe dream.

Kashmiris on this side who want to be part of Pak - their best bet is to cross the border and take up citizenship in POK. While you will find segments in India who are sympathetic to a Kashmiri's voice for independence (I include myself in this category), you will find close to none willing to cede it to Pak

The biggest failure of the Indian machine is to provide an alternate narrative. Terrorism has complicated the issue. If there was no terrorism, would Indians have changed the attitude of Kashmiris? If they didn't would they have agreed to the plebiscite? I think "plebiscite" stopped being an option as soon as Kashmiri hindus were kicked out of Kashmir.

 

[troodon]

What will any army in a war like situation do if the locals throw stones at army who are trying to recover stuff from wreckage?

Hatsoff to Indian army for showing restraint. I am sure they are used to it by now.

As I have said many times before, Muslim Kashmiris will never want to be under a Hindu Majority India. We are Kuffar to them.

On the other hand, India will never let Kashmir go. The best Kashmiris can get is, get to talks with India and draw a permanent border with India losing some land. Then Kashmiris can join Pakistan with that land and everything will be hunky dory for them I guess.

 

[Pakistanian]

What will any army in a war like situation do if the locals throw stones at army who are trying to recover stuff from wreckage?

Hatsoff to Indian army for showing restraint. I am sure they are used to it by now.

As I have said many times before, Muslim Kashmiris will never want to be under a Hindu Majority India. We are Kuffar to them.

On the other hand, India will never let Kashmir go. The best Kashmiris can get is, get to talks with India and draw a permanent border with India losing some land. Then Kashmiris can join Pakistan with that land and everything will be hunky dory for them I guess.

It's not just about religion. India isn't a nation, Kashmiris like the Kurds, and Bengalis and the Catalans want a ethnic nation state. You guys keep playing the "kuffar card" but the truth is there's nothing that binds Kashmir with India, if the Bengalis have their own country and India can support the Kurds to have their country then there's no reason why Kashmiris can't form a Kashmiri nation state.

 

[rhony]

It's not just about religion. India isn't a nation, Kashmiris like the Kurds, and Bengalis and the Catalans want a ethnic nation state. You guys keep playing the "kuffar card" but the truth is there's nothing that binds Kashmir with India, if the Bengalis have their own country and India can support the Kurds to have their country then there's no reason why Kashmiris can't form a Kashmiri nation state.

If it's not about religion, what is binding Pakistan to Kashmir? It's resources. Indians have the same motive.

 

[ElRaja]

the least this does is put to rest the notion india loves to sell of azad kashmir being occupied. i went to azad Kashmir a lot as a kid and never even realised its any different from the rest of pak. the people are as patriotic as any other Pakistanis, more so for seeing what the Indians have done to their brothers across the border.

 

[Pakistanian]

If it's not about religion, what is binding Pakistan to Kashmir? It's resources. Indians have the same motive.

English might be a hard language for you. I said "it's not just about religion" NOT "it's not about religion", the word "just" acknowledges that religion isn't the only factor in the Kashmir conflict and that there's also an ethnic angle to it which is why many athiest and ex muslim Kashmiris support independence too. Pakistan's motives may be religion, resources, or because of a pretty influential kashur origin community in Pakistan but the motives of Kashmiris is mainly ethnic cultural and to a lesser extent religious.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

What will any army in a war like situation do if the locals throw stones at army who are trying to recover stuff from wreckage?

Hatsoff to Indian army for showing restraint. I am sure they are used to it by now.

As I have said many times before, Muslim Kashmiris will never want to be under a Hindu Majority India. We are Kuffar to them.

On the other hand, India will never let Kashmir go. The best Kashmiris can get is, get to talks with India and draw a permanent border with India losing some land. Then Kashmiris can join Pakistan with that land and everything will be hunky dory for them I guess.

Give kashmir valley and Muslim majority Jammu areas like Rajouri, Doda, Bhaderwah to Pakistan. Then draw a line. That’s way forward

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Kashmiris can’t defend themselves and I’m sure Pakistan would win a referendum over independence amd India in AJK, Kashmir valley and Muslim majority areas of Jammu districts

 

[KingKhanWC]

What will any army in a war like situation do if the locals throw stones at army who are trying to recover stuff from wreckage?

Hatsoff to Indian army for showing restraint. I am sure they are used to it by now.

As I have said many times before, Muslim Kashmiris will never want to be under a Hindu Majority India. We are Kuffar to them.

On the other hand, India will never let Kashmir go. The best Kashmiris can get is, get to talks with India and draw a permanent border with India losing some land. Then Kashmiris can join Pakistan with that land and everything will be hunky dory for them I guess.

I thought you said you aren't Hindu or religous?

India only had to shower them with jobs, education and a good life but have used a violent tactic instead.

Kashmiri's are people like the rest, if you abuse them they will fight back. Not rocket science is it.

 

[troodon]

It's not just about religion. India isn't a nation, Kashmiris like the Kurds, and Bengalis and the Catalans want a ethnic nation state. You guys keep playing the "kuffar card" but the truth is there's nothing that binds Kashmir with India, if the Bengalis have their own country and India can support the Kurds to have their country then there's no reason why Kashmiris can't form a Kashmiri nation state.

What binds Kashmiris to India is the same thing that a Malayalee or Tamil binds a Punjabi or Himachali. Its called Indianness. However, Kashmiris do not want to be under Hindu majority India.

A Kashmiri Hindu or Buddhist wants to be with India. A Punjabi Sikh wants to be with India. A Malayalee Christian wants to be with India. So why cannot a Kashmiri Muslim? You know the primary reason. No point in beating around the bush.

 

[troodon]

I thought you said you aren't Hindu or religous?

India only had to shower them with jobs, education and a good life but have used a violent tactic instead.

Kashmiri's are people like the rest, if you abuse them they will fight back. Not rocket science is it.

I am an athiest/agnostic. I am still a kuffar.

If they stop throwing stones and stop objecting to Army and block them, then nobody will abuse them. You abuse army who are trained to fight and kill and expect to be treated like a tender flower?

Why doesn't Indian army target Malayalee Muslims or Hyderabadi Muslims? Why only Kashmiri Muslims complain? You and I know the reason very well.

 

[rhony]

English might be a hard language for you. I said "it's not just about religion" NOT "it's not about religion", the word "just" acknowledges that religion isn't the only factor in the Kashmir conflict and that there's also an ethnic angle to it which is why many athiest and ex muslim Kashmiris support independence too. Pakistan's motives may be religion, resources, or because of a pretty influential kashur origin community in Pakistan but the motives of Kashmiris is mainly ethnic cultural and to a lesser extent religious.

You might have a comprehension issue. I reiterated that there is another motive than religion as well. It was a rhetorical question in my post and then I gave the answer. It's resources. The rest were probably important after partition when India united people of multiple cultures, ethnicities. A plebiscite was offered too. But none of that matters now.

 

[ElRaja]

Give kashmir valley and Muslim majority Jammu areas like Rajouri, Doda, Bhaderwah to Pakistan. Then draw a line. That’s way forward

this would be the most sensible thing to do, but then Indian politicians would lose something to point towards to distract the people when needed.

ideally india would like to put the 9 million odd muslim in kashmir on a train and send them to pak, so they can resettle the areas with real indians.

 

[Pakistanian]

What binds Kashmiris to India is the same thing that a Malayalee or Tamil binds a Punjabi or Himachali. Its called Indianness. However, Kashmiris do not want to be under Hindu majority India.

A Kashmiri Hindu or Buddhist wants to be with India. A Punjabi Sikh wants to be with India. A Malayalee Christian wants to be with India. So why cannot a Kashmiri Muslim? You know the primary reason. No point in beating around the bush.

Kashmiris want none of your Indianess. They should be allowed to opt out of any union. The Scots and the Quebecers also got that option. Why don't you guys annex Bangladesh or Sri Lanka to be part of your "Indianess". You can't force anybody to part of a federation if they don't want to, Saddam learnt that with the Kurds.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

this would be the most sensible thing to do, but then Indian politicians would lose something to point towards to distract the people when needed.

ideally india would like to put the 9 million odd muslim in kashmir on a train and send them to pak, so they can resettle the areas with real indians.

Muslims of kargil would join Pakistan too.

 

[troodon]

Give kashmir valley and Muslim majority Jammu areas like Rajouri, Doda, Bhaderwah to Pakistan. Then draw a line. That’s way forward

I doubt India will give anything from Jammu.

I am all for Kashmir Valley seceding from India.

Since Kashmiris already got POK, they should get nothing from Jammu. Muslims in Jammu can migrate to POK and enjoy with their brothers there.

 

[rhony]

Straight out of Al Jazeera:

The Indus has five main tributaries. The Jhelum, the largest of these, originates in the Valley of Kashmir. The Chenab, a second tributary, flows through the Jammu region of the state of Jammu and Kashmir before entering the Indian state of Punjab. The remaining three tributaries (Ravi, Sutlej and Beas) either originate or flow through India's state of Himachal before entering Indian Punjab.

As a result, if the Line of Control (LoC) between India and Pakistan in Kashmir, were to move from being a defacto to a recognised international border, India would permanently become the upper riparian and Pakistan the lower riparian of the Indus River and all of its tributaries.

The Indus is a river system that sustains communities in both India and Pakistan. In Pakistan, it is the only river system supporting the country, where more than 92 per cent of the land is arid or semi-arid. In India, it is one of two main river systems supporting the country's northwest: Punjab, Haryana and Rajasthan (generally considered to be water deficient areas).

Given that over half of Pakistan's population is employed in the agricultural sector and that Punjab produces more than 20 per cent of India's wheat and is known as the "bread basket" of the Republic of India, the importance of the Indus River to the well-being and economy of both countries cannot be overemphasised.

 

[troodon]

Kashmiris want none of your Indianess. They should be allowed to opt out of any union. The Scots and the Quebecers also got that option. Why don't you guys annex Bangladesh or Sri Lanka to be part of your "Indianess". You can't force anybody to part of a federation if they don't want to, Saddam learnt that with the Kurds.

Bangladesh was part of your country that you could not hold on to. It was gone during 1947. It is past.

Srilanka was never India. They are similar to South Indians. If they want to join India, they will be most welcome.

Now coming to Kashmir, its all about religion. If India were a Muslim country, Kashmir issue would not even exist.

 

[Haroon786]

Check here:

https://twitter.com/BurhanSpeaks/status/1100683852119306241?s=20

Yep those set of Kashmiris would definitely vote for Pakistan, that much we can take away from the clip.

 

[waqar goraya]

What will any army in a war like situation do if the locals throw stones at army who are trying to recover stuff from wreckage?

Hatsoff to Indian army for showing restraint. I am sure they are used to it by now.

As I have said many times before, Muslim Kashmiris will never want to be under a Hindu Majority India. We are Kuffar to them.

On the other hand, India will never let Kashmir go. The best Kashmiris can get is, get to talks with India and draw a permanent border with India losing some land. Then Kashmiris can join Pakistan with that land and everything will be hunky dory for them I guess.

There is some truth in that. Indian army has been asked to do a very tough job in Kashmir, in a hostile environment. They have been told that they are in an Indian territory but loathing of locals and popular support to insurgency make it actually an enemy territory.
Human rights violations are bound to happen when army movies in urban areas. That's why the solution lies in politics. More force means more alienation. Modi policy of being tough has further alienated Kashmiris.

 

[rhony]

Kashmiris want none of your Indianess. They should be allowed to opt out of any union. The Scots and the Quebecers also got that option. Why don't you guys annex Bangladesh or Sri Lanka to be part of your "Indianess". You can't force anybody to part of a federation if they don't want to, Saddam learnt that with the Kurds.

I will reiterate that it's resources again with a simple logic. If it's not about resources and if Pakistan genuinely cares about independent Kashmir, why doesn't Pakistan give a choice of a plebiscite to AJK and be an example? That would actually put a lot of pressure on India to do the same on their end. AJK and J&K will decide later if they want to be one unified country.

 

[troodon]

There is some truth in that. Indian army has been asked to do a very tough job in Kashmir, in a hostile environment. They have been told that they are in an Indian territory but loathing of locals and popular support to insurgency make it actually an enemy territory.
Human rights violations are bound to happen when army movies in urban areas. That's why the solution lies in politics. More force means more alienation. Modi policy of being tough has further alienated Kashmiris.

I feel that this is a golden opportunity for both India and Pakistan to settle this once and for all.

Imran seems to be an honest guy and his effort so far to diffuse the situation is commendable. India should use this opportunity to give away valley and draw a permanent boundary after that.

Any Muslim from Jammu or some wannabe Pakistanis in the rest of India want, they can move to AJK forever and get this done. This way India can finally concentrate on the actual issues that are pestering India.

 

[troodon]

I will reiterate that it's resources again with a simple logic. If it's not about resources and if Pakistan genuinely cares about independent Kashmir, why doesn't Pakistan give a choice of a plebiscite to AJK and be an example? That would actually put a lot of pressure on India to do the same on their end. AJK and J&K will decide later if they want to be one unified country.

Agreed to the bold.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Read my OP. Kashmir wants to become Pakistan

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

If people of Kashmir want Pakistan union, why would Pakistan promote independence as promoted by the West and India? Kashmir can’t defend itself plus yesterday’s reaction on the ground is important

 

[troodon]

Read my OP. Kashmir wants to become Pakistan

Will Kashmiris be okay if India just gives them the valley? Kashmiris already have POK with them and that's a big chunk of land.

India will never part with Jammu.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Will Kashmiris be okay if India just gives them the valley? Kashmiris already have POK with them and that's a big chunk of land.

India will never part with Jammu.

Kashmiris in valley don’t really get ok with people in Jammu except Chenab valley. They will be content. [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] [MENTION=59262]shaaik[/MENTION]

 

[Mueez]

In my opinion, to solve this Kashmir issue, USA should intervene with other big guns joining up and need to pressurize India and Pakistan to hold a referendum in which the Kashmiris will choose whether they want to stay with India/Pakistan or they want to become an independent nation.

This is very simple but much guts are needed from the Indian and Pakistani side to let the referendum happen.

Under the regime of Imran Khan, Pakistan needs to convey this message clearly to UN.

 

[Bilal7]

That Kashmir has turned into a cauldron under Modi is a fact. The stats don't lie.

However Pakistanis who live in hope that Indian Kashmir will ever be a part of Pakistan in their lifetime are smoking a pipe dream.

Kashmiris on this side who want to be part of Pak - their best bet is to cross the border and take up citizenship in POK. While you will find segments in India who are sympathetic to a Kashmiri's voice for independence (I include myself in this category), you will find close to none willing to cede it to Pak

That's fine. Give them their independence and once they are free from Indian control, they can choose whether they want to join Pakistan or remain independent. If India tries anything after that, they'll lose more than a couple of jets.

 

[rhony]

Read my OP. Kashmir wants to become Pakistan

See, I don't doubt that you want to be a Pakistani. But I will also tell you that not you, not anyone can read the mind of every Kashmiri there. They are suffering and the emotions are high with the rhetoric. But once the dust settles, removing the army, India, Pakistan out of the picture, every man will first think about his family and himself. If given a peaceful alternative, there could be some who want to be independent, some who want better economic stability and prospects in India, some want to go to Pakistan. If in your OP, you showed a million people marching to Delhi for independence, I will agree with you. A few people beating up a soldier just proves one thing. Those people want to join Pakistan.

There are a million Kashmiris but only a few hundred militants. Millions of Muslims decided to stay in India during partition. Bangladesh decided they don't want to be part of Pakistan after initially joining Pak . These are all examples that religion, rhetoric come into the picture as long as there is a perceived common enemy. Once that is out of the picture, hunger, prospects, future will come into play.

 

[JaDed]

In my opinion, to solve this Kashmir issue, USA should intervene with other big guns joining up and need to pressurize India and Pakistan to hold a referendum in which the Kashmiris will choose whether they want to stay with India/Pakistan or they want to become an independent nation.

This is very simple but much guts are needed from the Indian and Pakistani side to let the referendum happen.

Under the regime of Imran Khan, Pakistan needs to convey this message clearly to UN.

USA can't interfere, they have a sedition law in place and China would lose Tibet as well so which country remains that allow referendum- UK-Canada so lol...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Kashmiris want none of your Indianess. They should be allowed to opt out of any union. The Scots and the Quebecers also got that option. Why don't you guys annex Bangladesh or Sri Lanka to be part of your "Indianess". You can't force anybody to part of a federation if they don't want to, Saddam learnt that with the Kurds.

Very thought provoking question. Bangladesh was in a position to be reabsorbed in India when East Pakistan dream failed, but for some reason India didn't want that land or their people. Even today there has been a fence erected to keep Bengalis out.

 

[rhony]

Very thought provoking question. Bangladesh was in a position to be reabsorbed in India when East Pakistan dream failed, but for some reason India didn't want that land or their people. Even today there has been a fence erected to keep Bengalis out.

That would have been an occupation and hypocritical. Indians have drummed up the Azadi beat in the Banglas and supported them in the division in the name of independence. Trying to annex it would have been a disaster and downright immoral.

 

[ElRaja]

Will Kashmiris be okay if India just gives them the valley? Kashmiris already have POK with them and that's a big chunk of land.

India will never part with Jammu.

i wouldnt mind if the valley was either given to pak or made independent, but that would potentially be a worse situation for pak than currently.

as long as there are muslim majority districts in indian kashmir there is likely to be violence. if pak take the valley, that is no guarantee that within pakistan support for a kashmiri insurgency in the remaining muslim districts of kashmir would disappear completely. this would put pak in a very difficult position and india would rightly make greater demands.

realistically imo india would need to give the valley and northern kargil and reform jammu and ladakh as a state proper and repopulate the muslim majority districts with hindus within a year to two and you would solve the issue imo.

 

[JaDed]

Kashmiris want none of your Indianess. They should be allowed to opt out of any union. The Scots and the Quebecers also got that option. Why don't you guys annex Bangladesh or Sri Lanka to be part of your "Indianess". You can't force anybody to part of a federation if they don't want to, Saddam learnt that with the Kurds.

Preach that to your own nation America first that doesn't allow that ask em to change the constitution then we will speak about it.

 

[Madplayer]

I've heard of it but haven't seen it. Is it real?

Trying to avoid propaganda stuff from both sides.

If the video is authentic then it proves that Pakistan downed two planes. It'll also further discredit the Indian army/gov't in front of their public.

So far, I've assumed that Pakistan has been more honest than India about everything.

The video is 100% real. However Indians are claiming it to have crashed due to malfunction.

I was honestly impressed by the size of the cajones of the Kashmiris there.... shouting pro-Pakistan slogans around the wreckage, while Indian army were trying to lock down the location.

Kashmiris dont give a rat's behind anymore. Really fed up. People have been pushed over the line collectively and these scenes where people dont even fear the gun are a result of it.

Don't get me wrong, I can only provide my own perspective here, which is I've been to AJK numerous times and have family there and am aware of the ground reality there, hence my opinion that AJK is Pakistani.

IOK probably does favour Pakistan and would be favourite to win a referendum if the conditions for it are ever satisfied.

But in case of a referendum the entire population would be taken into consideration so you know where that will go.

Also what Haroon probably meant was if referendum is held in both Kashmirs I can bet my house 99% of Azad Kashmiris will say wanna stay with Pak, but percentage might be a bit lower in Occupied Kashmir.

Maybe, because we have a sizeable hindu population in Jammu. But a plebiscite will consider the votes of entire J&K on both sides of the border.

 

[Madplayer]

Kashmiris in valley don’t really get ok with people in Jammu except Chenab valley. They will be content. [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] [MENTION=59262]shaaik[/MENTION]

We wont leave an inch of land. Jammu and Ladakh are coming with us because thats what the resolution says. This Indian hanky Panky wont work. Entire chenab valley stands with Kashmir. There is a clear cut hindu majority in barely 3 districts of jammu and in case of a referendum, they will have to accept the majority's vote. If any Indian has a problem then go to UN and get the resolution changed.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I am an athiest/agnostic. I am still a kuffar.

If they stop throwing stones and stop objecting to Army and block them, then nobody will abuse them. You abuse army who are trained to fight and kill and expect to be treated like a tender flower?

Why doesn't Indian army target Malayalee Muslims or Hyderabadi Muslims? Why only Kashmiri Muslims complain? You and I know the reason very well.

Indian army is scared of stones? Do you not think they have tried non-violent protests?

It targets Kashmiris because under Int law the land doesn't belong to India and if the people call for the right to self determination it upsets little India.

 

[rhony]

We wont leave an inch of land. Jammu and Ladakh are coming with us because thats what the resolution says. This Indian hanky Panky wont work. Entire chenab valley stands with Kashmir. There is a clear cut hindu majority in barely 3 districts of jammu and in case of a referendum, they will have to accept the majority's vote. If any Indian has a problem then go to UN and get the resolution changed.

Let me change a few words in what you just typed. Read along. This is India's version

We wont leave an inch of land. Jammu and Kashmir are staying with us because thats what the accession says. This Pakistani hanky Panky wont work. Entire India stands with Kashmir. There is a clear cut muslim majority in Kashmir because Pandits were kicked out . If any Kashmiri has a problem then go to UN and get the resolution changed.

 

[rhony]

Indian army is scared of stones? Do you not think they have tried non-violent protests?

It targets Kashmiris because under Int law the land doesn't belong to India and if the people call for the right to self determination it upsets little India.

Can you show me an international law that states Kashmir doesn't belong to India? Can you also show me a law that states AJK belongs to Pakistan? How can they both be true?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Can you show me an international law that states Kashmir doesn't belong to India? Can you also show me a law that states AJK belongs to Pakistan? How can they both be true?

Both areas are disputed. The UN resolution calls for a plebiciste. Are you seriously telling me you are unaware of this fact?

 

[rhony]

Both areas are disputed. The UN resolution calls for a plebiciste. Are you seriously telling me you are unaware of this fact?

I am aware. As per the law, India can lawfully administer J&K until the plebiscite. The land is disputed doesn't mean India is illegally occupying Kashmir. India and Pakistan have full rights to administer, conduct elections, provide law and order in J&K and AJK respectively. SO, saying it doesn't belong to India or Pakistan is not accurate. That's why I asked you to show me a law that states "Kashmir doesn't belong to India". As far as the plebiscite goes, I think I already told you the first step in the plebiscite.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I am aware. As per the law, India can lawfully administer J&K until the plebiscite. The land is disputed doesn't mean India is illegally occupying Kashmir. India and Pakistan have full rights to administer, conduct elections, provide law and order in J&K and AJK respectively. SO, saying it doesn't belong to India or Pakistan is not accurate. That's why I asked you to show me a law that states "Kashmir doesn't belong to India". As far as the plebiscite goes, I think I already told you the first step in the plebiscite.

lol. If you are aware it's DISPUTED land , how can you then claim it belongs to India? Indian border ends at Kashmir for a reason. Political process within this land doesn't mean it's not disputed.

 

[ShahKhan007]

Is there video proof of these reactions or is this another Twitter inspired thread?

 

[rhony]

lol. If you are aware it's DISPUTED land , how can you then claim it belongs to India? Indian border ends at Kashmir for a reason. Political process within this land doesn't mean it's not disputed.

Did I say it's not disputed? I said there is no law that states "Kashmir doesnt belong to India" as you said. India has the legal authority to administer Kashmir so does Pak in AJK. J&K and AJK belong to these countries legally until a plebiscite is held.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Did I say it's not disputed? I said there is no law that states "Kashmir doesnt belong to India" as you said. India has the legal authority to administer Kashmir so does Pak in AJK. J&K and AJK belong to these countries legally until a plebiscite is held.

You cannot use the word belong because it comes across as if Kashmir is the property of these nations and as you now it's not.

All Indians need to understand this very very important fact. Kashmir is being ruled politically by both Pakistan and India, niether nation owns the land or the land belongs to them. I honestly think hundreds of millions of Indians do not realise it's disupted terrirtory because of the way Indian governments and media have fooled them.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Let me change a few words in what you just typed. Read along. This is India's version

We wont leave an inch of land. Jammu and Kashmir are staying with us because thats what the accession says. This Pakistani hanky Panky wont work. Entire India stands with Kashmir. There is a clear cut muslim majority in Kashmir because Pandits were kicked out . If any Kashmiri has a problem then go to UN and get the resolution changed.

Conveniently forgot the 200,000 Jammu Muslims who were massacred?

 

[rhony]

Conveniently forgot the 200,000 Jammu Muslims who were massacred?

Why will India's POV include muslims massacred in Kashmir? Why will Kashmiri's POV include kicking out Pandits?

 

[rhony]

You cannot use the word belong because it comes across as if Kashmir is the property of these nations and as you now it's not.

All Indians need to understand this very very important fact. Kashmir is being ruled politically by both Pakistan and India, niether nation owns the land or the land belongs to them. I honestly think hundreds of millions of Indians do not realise it's disupted terrirtory because of the way Indian governments and media have fooled them.

Does ruling politically include maintaining law and order in the state? Why is the army called an occupying force then? The land belongs to the ruler under certain conditions. In this case, there is a special status awarded to Kashmir under the "Constitution of India" and similarly AJK under Pakistan's jurisdiction.

 

[K4Kohli]

That's fine. Give them their independence and once they are free from Indian control, they can choose whether they want to join Pakistan or remain independent. If India tries anything after that, they'll lose more than a couple of jets.

why would we have to give our land. Population who wants to join Pakistan should be given citizenship & entry into pakistan

 

[Madplayer]

Let me change a few words in what you just typed. Read along. This is India's version

We wont leave an inch of land. Jammu and Kashmir are staying with us because thats what the accession says. This Pakistani hanky Panky wont work. Entire India stands with Kashmir. There is a clear cut muslim majority in Kashmir because Pandits were kicked out . If any Kashmiri has a problem then go to UN and get the resolution changed.

You have no clue what you are talking about really. Clear cut muslim majority in Kashmir because Pandits were kicked out by Indian establishment? Lol pandits are a small fraction of the population anyway and many pro-independence leaders were Kashmiri pandits. Secondly huge % of Pandits went to Jammu so it hardly changed anything when it comes to overall population of the state.

 

[Madplayer]

Why will India's POV include muslims massacred in Kashmir? Why will Kashmiri's POV include kicking out Pandits?

About 4 lakh muslims were massacred by Jammu hindu dogras who were ruling and many more lakhs forced to go to Pakistan which created a muslim minority in 3 districts on Jammu province. Kashmir's POV includes kicking out pandits but pur narrative is that Indian establishment kicked them out and they fell for it.

 

[Bilal7]

why would we have to give our land. Population who wants to join Pakistan should be given citizenship & entry into pakistan

Because it is not your land..

 

[Muhammad10]

Meanwhile in Indian occupied Kashmir (as seen below), the noble Hindustani army continues to exercise admirable "restraint" in its exemplary treatment of the citizens of what is repeatedly described as "an integral part of India" by our confused parosis.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is heart wrenching. Indians beat & try to force a Kashmiri to say Pakistan murdabad (Death to Pak), he takes a beating but risks his live to chant <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PakistanZindabad?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PakistanZindabad</a> (Long Live Pakistan) in defiance. This is what a true Pakistani looks like. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FinalStrike?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FinalStrike</a> <a href="https://t.co/PBmEAbAKwt">pic.twitter.com/PBmEAbAKwt</a></p>— Asfandyar Bhittani (@BhittaniKhannnn) <a href="https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/status/1101261093832441856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2019</a></blockquote>
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[Colt]

How shameless can Indians be?

They should be thanking the Pakistan army, if it wasn't for the Jawans getting there in the nick of time and dispersing the mob by firing shots in the air, you wouldn't have a pilot to take back mark my words...

Kashmirs on either side of the border would have done the same to any Indian combat pilot just look at the scenes from the helicopter crash in Indian Occupied Kashmir, you have lost battle.

I know its something really hard to swallow for Indians but they will hate you for eternity till you stop the genocide and atrocities in Indian occupied Kashmir.

 

[Muhammad10]

How shameless can Indians be?

They should be thanking the Pakistan army, if it wasn't for the Jawans getting there in the nick of time and dispersing the mob by firing shots in the air, you wouldn't have a pilot to take back mark my words...

Kashmirs on either side of the border would have done the same to any Indian combat pilot just look at the scenes from the helicopter crash in Indian Occupied Kashmir, you have lost battle.

I know its something really hard to swallow for Indians but they will hate you for eternity till you stop the genocide and atrocities in Indian occupied Kashmir.

bUt BuT pAkIsTaN iS rAdIcAlIsInG tHeM

 

[Asif321]

No one threw stones to aircraft or chanted slogans
Yes we don’t like India but we respect humanity . Infact civilian died while he wanted to help the injured Indians who crashed down
When they try to trouble us we do it back but here it happened naturally so no one did any sort of stone pelting

 

[ahmedzee]

What will any army in a war like situation do if the locals throw stones at army who are trying to recover stuff from wreckage?

Hatsoff to Indian army for showing restraint. I am sure they are used to it by now.

As I have said many times before, Muslim Kashmiris will never want to be under a Hindu Majority India. We are Kuffar to them.

On the other hand, India will never let Kashmir go. The best Kashmiris can get is, get to talks with India and draw a permanent border with India losing some land. Then Kashmiris can join Pakistan with that land and everything will be hunky dory for them I guess.

That has been the proposed solution in quite a while, and as a Pakistani, and in-laws being Kashmiris (from both sides), I do agree with this idea.

 

[Realromeo]

It is clear that IOK is just a territory we control and people don't want anything to do with us. Also our approach was wrong. We tried to rule the region with iron fist and it didn't work. Surprised that placing quarter million soldiers in the state of several million and ruling them with iron fist has gone wrong....hmmm

 

[KingKhanWC]

Does ruling politically include maintaining law and order in the state? Why is the army called an occupying force then? The land belongs to the ruler under certain conditions. In this case, there is a special status awarded to Kashmir under the "Constitution of India" and similarly AJK under Pakistan's jurisdiction.

You are not ruling, you are administrating. Administration is only temporary until the people are given the right to self determination. If Indians dont know the basics, no wonder they are confused regarding Kashmir.

 

[rhony]

You are not ruling, you are administrating. Administration is only temporary until the people are given the right to self determination. If Indians dont know the basics, no wonder they are confused regarding Kashmir.

See, you are right and wrong. Right that its temporary and until the plebiscite. Wrong that it is not ruling. There is no difference between administering and ruling when you control every aspect of the state

 

[Bilal7]

Meanwhile in Indian occupied Kashmir (as seen below), the noble Hindustani army continues to exercise admirable "restraint" in its exemplary treatment of the citizens of what is repeatedly described as "an integral part of India" by our confused parosis.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is heart wrenching. Indians beat & try to force a Kashmiri to say Pakistan murdabad (Death to Pak), he takes a beating but risks his live to chant <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PakistanZindabad?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PakistanZindabad</a> (Long Live Pakistan) in defiance. This is what a true Pakistani looks like. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FinalStrike?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FinalStrike</a> <a href="https://t.co/PBmEAbAKwt">pic.twitter.com/PBmEAbAKwt</a></p>— Asfandyar Bhittani (@BhittaniKhannnn) <a href="https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/status/1101261093832441856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is the reality of the "world's largest democracy" where uber-nationalistic terrorists roam free and people are killed for eating beef burgers.

 

[KingKhanWC]

See, you are right and wrong. Right that its temporary and until the plebiscite. Wrong that it is not ruling. There is no difference between administering and ruling when you control every aspect of the state

When you rule you can enforce any rule you wish inc moving people from a part of the land. When you administor , you have no right to do such a thing. Never mind, you seem to be stuck on words but accept the land doesn't belong to India and this is what matters.

 

[shaaik]

Kashmiris in valley don’t really get ok with people in Jammu except Chenab valley. They will be content. [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] [MENTION=59262]shaaik[/MENTION]

More than willing to give away Jammu any day of the week and thrice on Sunday. Its almost been a decade when I visited Jammu last, It used to feel such an alien place to me when ever I was there .. I feel more at home say in delhi than Jammu to be honest ...

 

[PakLFC]

I would hate to be a soldier where the people spit on your face, want to kill you and celebrate the death of your colleagues. It would be so difficult for India soldiers occupying the valley where they are so hated. Just the guilt of being oppressing innocent people is high enough that many commit suicide. If i was a Pak soldier told to kill and blind anyone would openly refuse to do it, let it be insubordination. Don't know how Indian soldiers can live with themselves. the conscience of the Indian soldiers is completely dead.