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Kuldeep Yadav is not overseas Test quality!

gazza619

gazza619

Test Debutant
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Runs
13,398
Kuldeep is having an extra ordinary time in limited overs cricket, but mark my word, he will be taken to the cleaners in England tests. He just bowls too slow. To get successful in England you need to have little bit of pace behind your spinners. India should rather play an extra seamer, and Chahal should be the main spinner.
 
We will get an answer to the mystery of Kuldeep very soon.
 
You think chahal is a test quality bowler, you lost any credibility to your arguments with that.
 
jagatk said:
You think chahal is a test quality bowler, you lost any credibility to your arguments with that.
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Well India needs to play a wrist spinner, otherwise they don’t have a chance against England. What is the point of picking two wrist spinners on the tour team and not playing even one of them? Chahal has a decent top spinner/in dipper.
 
gazza619 said:
Well India needs to play a wrist spinner, otherwise they don’t have a chance against England. What is the point of picking two wrist spinners on the tour team and not playing even one of them? Chahal has a decent top spinner/in dipper.
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Who picked 2 wrist spinners for tests?
 
gazza619 said:
Well India needs to play a wrist spinner, otherwise they don’t have a chance against England. What is the point of picking two wrist spinners on the tour team and not playing even one of them?
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Chahal won't be in the test team.
 
Ashwin and Kuldeep both should play. Ashwin's batting also gives him an upper hand over chahal and jaddu.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Ashwin and Kuldeep both should play. Ashwin's batting also gives him an upper hand over chahal and jaddu.
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If its a flat pitch, I would rather we go with 2 spinners (out of which 1 is Ash) and 3 pacers, rather than 2+ Pandya. Though, we should try him out for 1 match though.
 
gazza619 said:
Sorry i thought both Chahal and Kuldeep are in the test team, are they not?
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Test squad is not picket yet. And India has system in place for selection. Players are tested in India A first. Chahal is not part of India test plan whatsoever.
 
Lol. Spinners like Kuldeep who are classical wrist spinners and depend on flight dip and spin, impart lot of side spin and flight the ball more.Hence they bowl around late 70s and early 80s. But any good spinners keeps changing the speed. Kuldeeps has bowled faster balls at 107ks as well.



Kuldeep may not be successful in England but that has nothing to do with the pace of the ball.

The OP just had to find a reason to take a shot at Kuldeep.Can you tell me where is this theory of more speed behind the ball came from?A source please.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Lol. Spinners like Kuldeep who are classical wrist spinners and depend on flight dip and spin, impart lot of side spin and flight the ball more.Hence they bowl around late 70s and early 80s. But any good spinners keeps changing the speed. Kuldeeps has bowled faster balls at 107ks as well.



Kuldeep may not be successful in England but that has nothing to do with the pace of the ball.

The OP just had to find a reason to take a shot at Kuldeep.Can you tell me where is this theory of more speed behind the ball came from?A source please.
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Honestly i didnt create this thread just to have a go at an Indian spinner. Neither am I a 20 year old who has just started watching cricket. I have closely followed a lot of cricket in England in the last 20 years. Afterall it is one of the most beautiful places in the world and has the best behave crowds.

Now coming back to the point on why I dont think Kuldeep will be succesful on English soil in tests. You were referring to his quicker one at 107 kph. I am not talking about faster one here. I am referring to quick leg breaks. Mushtaq Ahmed had a lot of success in his younger days. Mushy as we all know was not a big spinner but when he was fully fit he would put a lot of pace between his googlies and leggies. Warne has had a mix time in England but he was always a force because of his flipper. Yasir Shah is a more modern example who did pretty well. Kuleep’s natural bowl in slow flighted spinners. I am not saying that he cant bowl quick leggies but I dont think he would be able to sustain his line and length and has the stamina to bowl long spells effectively. I wish he gets picked in the 1st test and then you will see what I am talking about.
Ashwin has never done anything notable in England hence I want to give Chahal a chance.
 
In ODI series, so far, he's taken 9 wickets bowling 120 deliveries.

That's not an ordinary feat by any means.

India should definitely give him a try. He can bowl a match winning spell for them.

(That said, I've only seen a 2 minutes highlights clip of his bowling)
 
gazza619 said:
Honestly i didnt create this thread just to have a go at an Indian spinner. Neither am I a 20 year old who has just started watching cricket. I have closely followed a lot of cricket in England in the last 20 years. Afterall it is one of the most beautiful places in the world and has the best behave crowds.

Now coming back to the point on why I dont think Kuldeep will be succesful on English soil in tests. You were referring to his quicker one at 107 kph. I am not talking about faster one here. I am referring to quick leg breaks. Mushtaq Ahmed had a lot of success in his younger days. Mushy as we all know was not a big spinner but when he was fully fit he would put a lot of pace between his googlies and leggies. Warne has had a mix time in England but he was always a force because of his flipper. Yasir Shah is a more modern example who did pretty well. Kuleep’s natural bowl in slow flighted spinners. I am not saying that he cant bowl quick leggies but I dont think he would be able to sustain his line and length and has the stamina to bowl long spells effectively. I wish he gets picked in the 1st test and then you will see what I am talking about.
Ashwin has never done anything notable in England hence I want to give Chahal a chance.
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This us not your first post about Indians so lets leave it at that.

Can you show me the ball speeds of Mushy?Were speed guns in use then? If not how did you know the speeds?


Shane Warne has 129 wickets at 21.94 in England. Calling it a mix time shows you have no idea about it.

Yasir Shah is not a classical leg spinner he doesnot turn the ball much and if i am not wrong his avg is around 40 in England.So that certainly isnt the template for Kuldeep to follow.

Slow flighted spinners is what classical spinners bowl.

Any reason why you think Kuldeep cant bowl long spells?

As i said Kuldeep may or may not be successful in England. Hardly any Indian or Pakistani spinner has avgd below 25 in England. The best may be Mushy with avg around 28-29. The best Asian was Murali i believe and he didnot bowl quick spinners.

Ashwin has played only couple of tests in England. 3 innings if i am not wrong.
 
Abhilash93 said:
On the basis of what ? Have you seen him play first class cricket ?
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Sorry i think i didnt get across my point properly, I meant to say that if Kuldeep tries bowl quick leg breaks, he will not be to sustain his line and lenght for longer periods as bowling quick is not his natural method.
 
cricketjoshila said:
This us not your first post about Indians so lets leave it at that.

Can you show me the ball speeds of Mushy?Were speed guns in use then? If not how did you know the speeds?


Shane Warne has 129 wickets at 21.94 in England. Calling it a mix time shows you have no idea about it.

Yasir Shah is not a classical leg spinner he doesnot turn the ball much and if i am not wrong his avg is around 40 in England.So that certainly isnt the template for Kuldeep to follow.

Slow flighted spinners is what classical spinners bowl.

Any reason why you think Kuldeep cant bowl long spells?

As i said Kuldeep may or may not be successful in England. Hardly any Indian or Pakistani spinner has avgd below 25 in England. The best may be Mushy with avg around 28-29. The best Asian was Murali i believe and he didnot bowl quick spinners.

Ashwin has played only couple of tests in England. 3 innings if i am not wrong.
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Overall Warne was successul but I guess his last tour of England in which he failed to make an impression was on my mind. Yasir Shah averaged 40 simply because Pakistan was playing with only 3.5 bowlers (half fit Sohail Khan) and Yasir Shah bowled too many overs on his last tour. He certainly was a threat (ask any English pundit!), cricket is not all about averages.
How can I show you bowling speeds of Mushy? If you have eyes then I suggest you go on youtube and find Mushys wickets in England.
 
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gazza619 said:
Overall Warne was successul but I guess his last tour of England in which he failed to make an impression was on my mind. Yasir Shah averaged 40 simply because Pakistan was playing with only 3.5 bowlers (half fit Sohail Khan) and Yasir Shah bowled too many overs on his last tour. He certainly was a threat (ask any English pundit!), cricket is not all about averages.
How can I show you bowling speeds of Mushy? If you have eyes then I suggest you go on youtube and find Mushys wickets in England.
Click to expand...

Shane Warnes last tour of England was 2005 and he took 40wkts there. Thats a failure? Sir your agenda is falling apart faster than you think.

Yasir Shah avgd 40 because when the pitch didnot assist him he was struggling as he didnt have a big turning leggie.

I watched Mushy bowl in England in 96 but my eyes dont have speeds to make out whether the balls were 78-82 kph like Kuldeep or 89-90ks like Kumble or in between.
 
Playing 2 spinners in England is absolutely senseless. It has to be either Ashwin or Kuldeep. And if Ashwin isn't upto the mark, Kohli will have no problem dropping him even after 1 test
 
cricketjoshila said:
Shane Warnes last tour of England was 2005 and he took 40wkts there. Thats a failure? Sir your agenda is falling apart faster than you think.

Yasir Shah avgd 40 because when the pitch didnot assist him he was struggling as he didnt have a big turning leggie.

I watched Mushy bowl in England in 96 but my eyes dont have speeds to make out whether the balls were 78-82 kph like Kuldeep or 89-90ks like Kumble or in between.
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Yasir's average of 40 is inflated by the fact that he was taken to the cleaners in the second test at Old Trafford, which was an uncharacteristically flat pitch and not one you see too much of in England. Apart from that, Yasir produced two match-winning performances at Oval and Lords and showed a spinner can be successful in England if he bowls with discipline.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yasir's average of 40 is inflated by the fact that he was taken to the cleaners in the second test at Old Trafford, which was an uncharacteristically flat pitch and not one you see too much of in England. Apart from that, Yasir produced two match-winning performances at Oval and Lords and showed a spinner can be successful in England if he bowls with discipline.
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Sir avg is 40. It means he isnt consistent. He cant even keep it tight if he isnt getting wickets. Thats hardly discipline.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] explained it beautifully in a thread.
 
It's the other way around. On pitches that don't grip you need to deceive by flight and dip hence why Warne was so successful. Currently, Maharaj is one who has this skillset.
 
I don’t know if he’s as good as some people think he is. You have to be persistent with your line and length in test cricket. That’s how Jadeja gets wickets. If Kuldeep can build pressure by not letting the batsmen rotate the strike, he’ll be more successful than Jadeja.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Sir avg is 40. It means he isnt consistent. He cant even keep it tight if he isnt getting wickets. Thats hardly discipline.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] explained it beautifully in a thread.
Click to expand...

Fact remains that he played an integral role in two important wins. In England. Which is why I'm willing to look past the average of 40, which he can improve in later tours.
 
Sidilicious said:
If its a flat pitch, I would rather we go with 2 spinners (out of which 1 is Ash) and 3 pacers, rather than 2+ Pandya. Though, we should try him out for 1 match though.
Click to expand...

India can easily go in with 2 spinners and 3 seamers as Ashwin's batting ability can easily see him batting at no 7. It's amazing how much options Ashwin provides to the test team.
 
Kuldeep should play but people should not have very high expectations
There shouldn’t be any added pressure on him.

Reason being he has not play a single test yet and bowling in limited overs cricket, when the batsmen are going at you, is a completely different ball game.
 
IMMY69 said:
Kuldeep should play but people should not have very high expectations
There shouldn’t be any added pressure on him.

Reason being he has not play a single test yet and bowling in limited overs cricket, when the batsmen are going at you, is a completely different ball game.
Click to expand...

He has actually played 2 tests.
 
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