Kyle Abbott, Rilee Rossouw [#139], David Wiese [#226] quit international cricket, sign Kolpak deals

[GullyCricketFlop]

Surprising but not unexpected,with the current socio-economic conditions of the country.Fringe players like Abbott.will look for better opportunities as they won't have the financial backing that comes from playing in T20 leagues.He needs to feed his family,and unfortunately can't do that in SA.

 

[Drreddymd]

[MENTION=133277]barnold[/MENTION] i agree with u.infact i asked the same question to him but he didnt respond to it.i also dont understand if every player is on merit why the need of quota? What if 11 black players are better than all other white players ? What if 11 white players are better than all black and coloured players ? Good luck explaining it to the white or black players who miss out ?is the quota only for blacks or is it for both that means it is fixed i e black should not exceed 6 and whites should not exceed 5?

 

[Dark Magician]

Overall it's unfair for outsiders to comment on issues that are unique to certain culture.. it's like outsiders offering unwanted opinions on caste system in India or terrorism in Pakistan.

We should refrain unless we know what exactly is going on

Exactly. Foreigners don't have a ckue what they talking about no a single ckue. Some amongst them think because they protested against apartheid it gives them power over the whole country. In an ideal world so called qoutas are not needed but IN RSA they are needed. Why? Because racists don't want to change unless they are exposed and forced to change . Look at the number of white players that have debut in the last 5 years yet people want to talk about qoutas. How nice.

 

[barnold]

I agree with you,

but..

everyone knows zuptas is in charge

lol

explain that one to junaids

The Guptas are a small entity into South Africa's economy, who owns ENCA?

i wish i could withdraw that post. apologies

on a serious note Though. South Africa is controlled by oligopoly capital. at the highest levels there is no such thing as a free market. The previous regime made it impossible to compete with the established institutions using legislation ( ie red tape) . try to set up your own bank, or mine. Rigid standards and barriers to entry still prevail when looking for employment at the higher levels.

 

[shah_1]

It's all because of Brexit nah? All that rush to sign before implementation

Once Brexit is implemented then Kolpak will be over. South Africa cricket would be waiting for that day haha

 

[barnold]

i read a book about india by Aravind Adiga called the white tiger. it reminded me of south africa. both countries spawned by the most benevelant of the colonialists of the the 1900's and still dealing withe the damage

 

[Donal Cozzie]

i read a book about india by Aravind Adiga called the white tiger. it reminded me of south africa. both countries spawned by the most benevelant of the colonialists of the the 1900's and still dealing withe the damage

Read that as well actually, decent book

 

[barnold]

Agreed. We really are the Rainbow Nation.... what other african team would support their lollygate (and zippergate) white captain aka faf. even if we were wrong, it seemed right

 

[Markhor]

Its funny I didn't hear white South Africans screaming about MERIT when THEY had the whip hand over the majority. A quote from former US President Lyndon Johnson's address at the Howard University is relevant here.

"You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say you are free to compete with all the others, and still just believe that you have been completely fair.

All the cries of "why don't they just pick on merit ?" on here shows a lack of understanding of the situation. The fact is cricket in South Africa is an elitist sport. Unlike the SC, if you don't attend the private or top government schools, which are the main source of SAF Test cricketers, you cannot break through. And sadly that applies to the vast majority of black South Africans because a majority of them live in crippling poverty. Nor have cricketers in the SC been part of a community systematically oppressed by the state for nearly a century. Rabada and Bavuma are the exceptions coming from relatively wealthier families.

Racism is still not a thing of the past in South Africa. [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] - didn't you once mention a story of how white parents had refused their kids to play alongside black students in some private schools ?

Quotas are imperfect but necessary for the long-term future of South Africa cricket and to address the legacy of Apartheid. What quotas do is force sporting federations to attract players of colour and develop them to a professional level after decades of having a policy of exclusion. The sports federations for years have been asked to draw up with their own initiatives for racial transformation but they've repeatedly failed, and the SAF Govt haven't sanctioned them. If people think a sport can survive only on 10% of the population playing, you are out of your mind.

But why is the issue of quotas even being brought up ? Abbott himself admits his decision is nothing to do with quotas but financial motivations.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Is SA economy that bad to leave the country for 100,000 USD or GBP a year?

I guess these players just want to move out of SA and ENG is a easy destination to settle down. 25-30 years down the line we might have just 1/ 2 white players representing RSA in sports. Sad!

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

We had a white SAF'an poster here Jo_Don, don't see him posting now a days. Hopefully all is well and he's still in SA.

 

[Swanny]

Its funny I didn't hear white South Africans screaming about MERIT when THEY had the whip hand over the majority. A quote from former US President Lyndon Johnson's address at the Howard University is relevant here.

"You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say you are free to compete with all the others, and still just believe that you have been completely fair.

All the cries of "why don't they just pick on merit ?" on here shows a lack of understanding of the situation. The fact is cricket in South Africa is an elitist sport. Unlike the SC, if you don't attend the private or top government schools, which are the main source of SAF Test cricketers, you cannot break through. And sadly that applies to the vast majority of black South Africans because a majority of them live in crippling poverty. Nor have cricketers in the SC been part of a community systematically oppressed by the state for nearly a century. Rabada and Bavuma are the exceptions coming from relatively wealthier families.

Racism is still not a thing of the past in South Africa. [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] - didn't you once mention a story of how white parents had refused their kids to play alongside black students in some private schools ?

Quotas are imperfect but necessary for the long-term future of South Africa cricket and to address the legacy of Apartheid. What quotas do is force sporting federations to attract players of colour and develop them to a professional level after decades of having a policy of exclusion. The sports federations for years have been asked to draw up with their own initiatives for racial transformation but they've repeatedly failed, and the SAF Govt haven't sanctioned them. If people think a sport can survive only on 10% of the population playing, you are out of your mind.

But why is the issue of quotas even being brought up ? Abbott himself admits his decision is nothing to do with quotas but financial motivations.

Well put. It been just 20 odd years since apartheid was abolished in SA i.e. people who supported apartheid are still alive & continue to hold considerable wealth & influence. There's obviously a lot of work to be done.

 

[Thivagar]

It is funny to see people criticize Abott and Rossouw when they themselves have migrated to another country for better life LOL.

 

[soso_killer]

Its funny I didn't hear white South Africans screaming about MERIT when THEY had the whip hand over the majority. A quote from former US President Lyndon Johnson's address at the Howard University is relevant here.

"You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say you are free to compete with all the others, and still just believe that you have been completely fair.

All the cries of "why don't they just pick on merit ?" on here shows a lack of understanding of the situation. The fact is cricket in South Africa is an elitist sport. Unlike the SC, if you don't attend the private or top government schools, which are the main source of SAF Test cricketers, you cannot break through. And sadly that applies to the vast majority of black South Africans because a majority of them live in crippling poverty. Nor have cricketers in the SC been part of a community systematically oppressed by the state for nearly a century. Rabada and Bavuma are the exceptions coming from relatively wealthier families.

Racism is still not a thing of the past in South Africa. [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] - didn't you once mention a story of how white parents had refused their kids to play alongside black students in some private schools ?

Quotas are imperfect but necessary for the long-term future of South Africa cricket and to address the legacy of Apartheid. What quotas do is force sporting federations to attract players of colour and develop them to a professional level after decades of having a policy of exclusion. The sports federations for years have been asked to draw up with their own initiatives for racial transformation but they've repeatedly failed, and the SAF Govt haven't sanctioned them. If people think a sport can survive only on 10% of the population playing, you are out of your mind.

But why is the issue of quotas even being brought up ? Abbott himself admits his decision is nothing to do with quotas but financial motivations.

yes, Dale College but they are not the exception.
There's even a documentary about it. Perhaps when I find it I can link it in the off-topic section. With the permission of the moderators of course. It's a thought provoking documentary.
Even though rugby is a white dominated sport, Dale college are always in the top 4/6 schools in the Eastern Cape region despite being represented 100% by black students.

 

[soso_killer]

We had a white SAF'an poster here Jo_Don, don't see him posting now a days. Hopefully all is well and he's still in SA.

I think Jo_Don is of Indian descent.
I haven't seen him since I came back on PP as well, hope all is well.

 

[shaz619]

Its funny I didn't hear white South Africans screaming about MERIT when THEY had the whip hand over the majority. A quote from former US President Lyndon Johnson's address at the Howard University is relevant here.

"You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say you are free to compete with all the others, and still just believe that you have been completely fair.

All the cries of "why don't they just pick on merit ?" on here shows a lack of understanding of the situation. The fact is cricket in South Africa is an elitist sport. Unlike the SC, if you don't attend the private or top government schools, which are the main source of SAF Test cricketers, you cannot break through. And sadly that applies to the vast majority of black South Africans because a majority of them live in crippling poverty. Nor have cricketers in the SC been part of a community systematically oppressed by the state for nearly a century. Rabada and Bavuma are the exceptions coming from relatively wealthier families.

Racism is still not a thing of the past in South Africa. [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] - didn't you once mention a story of how white parents had refused their kids to play alongside black students in some private schools ?

Quotas are imperfect but necessary for the long-term future of South Africa cricket and to address the legacy of Apartheid. What quotas do is force sporting federations to attract players of colour and develop them to a professional level after decades of having a policy of exclusion. The sports federations for years have been asked to draw up with their own initiatives for racial transformation but they've repeatedly failed, and the SAF Govt haven't sanctioned them. If people think a sport can survive only on 10% of the population playing, you are out of your mind.

But why is the issue of quotas even being brought up ? Abbott himself admits his decision is nothing to do with quotas but financial motivations.

Insightful post, in the ideal world though it would nice if such quotas are not required but they seem necessary in the long term due to the reasons you've suggested. The controversy stems from the short term because a black kid who is inferior to a white kid in terms of ability would be favoured for development. So in the next 5-10 years or so the strength of SA cricket team will not be at 100% but should then return back to the top level providing CSA have a rigid program in place which scouts talent beyond the privileged 10% as well, assuming the process will be smooth the next question is how long would these quotas be in effect? and providing they are satisfied and we get to a stage where there are black and white cricketers of equal ability who have been developed from privileged and poverty stricken backgrounds would there still need to be a specific ratio in the team in terms of colour?

Would you agree with a quota system in England Markhor? historically cricket has been an elite sport here which revolves around a public school culture, rarely do you get players from deprived backgrounds although Moeen Ali is a breath of fresh air.

 

[soso_killer]

Is SA economy that bad to leave the country for 100,000 USD or GBP a year?

I guess these players just want to move out of SA and ENG is a easy destination to settle down. 25-30 years down the line we might have just 1/ 2 white players representing RSA in sports. Sad!

Yes, that's worth at least 1.5-2 million rand annually

 

[Drreddymd]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] then please explain to me how the quota system works? Is it fixed ie means only 5 white and only 6 coluref plus black at any time ? What if 11 best players are completely white or completely black ? If the situation arised then try explaining to the players who missed out due to this quota? If black players are there on merit what is the need of quota? Why lessen their performance by including under quota ?

 

[Drreddymd]

I can tell u india has quotas at every level just like transformation and each day people are tooking to the streets to be included in that quotas but never even one questioned for quota in sports

 

[Thivagar]

Is SA economy that bad to leave the country for 100,000 USD or GBP a year?

I guess these players just want to move out of SA and ENG is a easy destination to settle down. 25-30 years down the line we might have just 1/ 2 white players representing RSA in sports. Sad!

His Hampshire contract is about about $800,000 for 3 years, so it is more of the deal being too good to miss out and lack of opportunity to play international matches which also don't pay well. He has every reason to move out.

 

[soso_killer]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] then please explain to me how the quota system works? Is it fixed ie means only 5 white and only 6 coluref plus black at any time ? What if 11 best players are completely white or completely black ? If the situation arised then try explaining to the players who missed out due to this quota? If black players are there on merit what is the need of quota? Why lessen their performance by including under quota ?

The quota is is flexible. CSA has clearly stated it is in it's early stages and won't be allowed to compromise our chances of victory in important matches i.e bilaterals against India, Australia and England including ICC events obviously. It's cumulative rather than stringent.
It is inconceivable that the best 11 players in this country could either be black/white or coloured.
However in the unlikeliest of events that all players are of the same race e.g. for a World Cup final or a home decider of an important series ((Tests) i.e. CSA are willing to lose LOI's bilaterals but not Tests), then the same race will play. The quota will average itself out over the course of the year or specified period. i think the criteria is 60% of the matches annually. So if SA play 20 matches annually they have 8 matches in which they can bend the rules.

 

[HitWicket]

His Hampshire contract is about about $800,000 for 3 years, so it is more of the deal being too good to miss out and lack of opportunity to play international matches which also don't pay well. He has every reason to move out.

Bit irrelevant but worth noting that Abbott has actually signed a 4 year contract, Rossouws is 3 years.

 

[soso_killer]

His Hampshire contract is about about $800,000 for 3 years, so it is more of the deal being too good to miss out and lack of opportunity to play international matches which also don't pay well. He has every reason to move out.

That's a good deal in my opinion, that's worth around 12 million rand. He doesn't get to play much IPL as well. He was once a fast bowler clocking 140's as a 19 year old. A nasty injury prior to the under 19 WC almost destroyed his career. He had to reinvent himself as he could never operate at the same pace again. He bowls at the same pace as Vernon Philander which left his place in the side insecure especially once the likes of Steyn and Morkel (for away Tests at least) returned. You can't have two thirds of an attack operating in the 120's in places like the UAE.
He's a good bowler and will be missed. What I don't agree with is the assertion that quotas denied him opportunities. SA is a bowling nation, competition for places will always be tough.
At his age it was a right decision for him to make taking into account his age.
It's a pity and a great loss for South African cricket.

 

[Drreddymd]

[MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] thanks for the explanation

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

His Hampshire contract is about about $800,000 for 3 years, so it is more of the deal being too good to miss out and lack of opportunity to play international matches which also don't pay well. He has every reason to move out.

Yeah I have no issues with individuals , 800 grand is more than the average pay a foreign national gets in county so good for Kyle. How do counties have so much money ?

I suspect strong anti incubency in white SA'ns to leave the country apart from money.

 

[speedking]

I can tell u india has quotas at every level just like transformation and each day people are tooking to the streets to be included in that quotas but never even one questioned for quota in sports

you're absolutely right quotas on the basis of cast in india is frustrating thank god we don't have it in sports

 

[speedking]

I want south Africa to loose very badly in their upcoming schedules

 

[soso_killer]

I can tell u india has quotas at every level just like transformation and each day people are tooking to the streets to be included in that quotas but never even one questioned for quota in sports

Does India have different races like SA? I'm not talking about tribes or religious differences.
For example Bavuma and Rabada are defined as black but are from different tribes. Kagiso is a Sotho word, so I assume Rabada is from the Sotho tribe. Temba Bavuma is either Zulu or Xhosa (I assume his Xhosa as his from Cape Town originally).
And then you have whites, coloureds and Asians (which includes those of Indian descent e.g Amla, Chinese-who were brought over for cheap labour during the colonial era, Pakistanis etc.)

Of the black population you have Zulu's (Andile Phehlukwayo), Xhosa's (Makhaya Ntini, Lonwabo Tsotsobe, Mfuneko Ngam, Monde Zondeki), Venda's, Tswanes's, Sotho's (Kagiso Rabada), Ndebele's, Tsonga's, Swazi/Swati's, Tsonga's, Pedi's. All speaking different languages of course.

South Africa is a diverse country, sometimes i wonder how on earth we are not in a civil conflict with so much diversity which in itself courses different interests. But like I sated in my previous post, with all the flak this government gets, they've do a tremendous job to ensure we don't pull in different directions.

 

[Markhor]

Insightful post, in the ideal world though it would nice if such quotas are not required but they seem necessary in the long term due to the reasons you've suggested. The controversy stems from the short term because a black kid who is inferior to a white kid in terms of ability would be favoured for development. So in the next 5-10 years or so the strength of SA cricket team will not be at 100% but should then return back to the top level providing CSA have a rigid program in place which scouts talent beyond the privileged 10% as well, assuming the process will be smooth the next question is how long would these quotas be in effect? and providing they are satisfied and we get to a stage where there are black and white cricketers of equal ability who have been developed from privileged and poverty stricken backgrounds would there still need to be a specific ratio in the team in terms of colour?

Would you agree with a quota system in England Markhor? historically cricket has been an elite sport here which revolves around a public school culture, rarely do you get players from deprived backgrounds although Moeen Ali is a breath of fresh air.

I hope the quota system would eventually outlive its usefulness. I'm actually generally against "affirmative action" but exceptions can be made for countries like USA or South Africa where there has been massive historical subjugation of minorities leading to huge racial imbalances that has to be addressed somehow. However quotas aren't the only solution. South Africa doesn't just need a racial transformation, but an economic transformation. People forget South Africa is one of the most unequal countries in the world.

According to Oxfam, the wealthiest 4% of households receive 32% of total income while 66% of households receive only 21% of all income. It has one of the highest official unemployment rates in the world at 25%, and over half of South Africans live below the national poverty line with more than 10% in extreme poverty.

Economic empowerment for the black population means more of them can afford access to top schools. This is important in a country like South Africa where the schools are essentially the nurseries for cricketers. They'll be able to access the best facilities, receive the quality coaching their white counterparts do, and be identified by the sporting federations. The top private and government schools should also admit more bright black kids from poorer backgrounds. People say blacks aren't interested in cricket - but how do you know if you don't give them the opportunity ?

I don't think we need a quota system here in England. Firstly, England's cricket team unlike South Africa is a genuine representation of the racial demographics of the country. True minorities have faced discrimination in the past but not on the scale of the USA or South Africa. Asian communities are practically keeping cricket alive in this country, many of them ARE breaking through, and don't face the barriers that blacks in South Africa do. I think here we just have a general issue with reduced working-class interest in cricket - which isn't helped by us not having ANY live cricket on free-to-air terrestrial television.

 

[Markhor]

yes, Dale College but they are not the exception.
There's even a documentary about it. Perhaps when I find it I can link it in the off-topic section. With the permission of the moderators of course. It's a thought provoking documentary.
Even though rugby is a white dominated sport, Dale college are always in the top 4/6 schools in the Eastern Cape region despite being represented 100% by black students.

There goes the argument that if more black sportsmen play for their country, the team will decline !

Will check the documentary out, feel free to post the link.

 

[MMHS]

You know perfectly well what I mean.

The current quota numbers for the national team are

Maximum 5 whites
Minimum 6 players who are black/Coloured (mixed race)/Indian, of whom at least 2 must be black.

The only 2 black players of international quality are Bavuma and Rabada.

The only Coloured player of international quality is Philander, and only outside Asia.

The only Indian player of international quality is Amla, barely nowadays.

This means that the likes of Duminy get picked for non-merit reasons, that Maharaj is picked on pretty flimsy grounds and that Philander even got picked in India and on one leg at the World Cup.

South Africa traditionally pick four quicks, which is especially appropriate given that Philander is an excellent batsman and that De Kock is a world class batsman as well as keeper.

So the pace attack in Australia and New Zealand really should be Steyn - Philander - Rabada - Abbott.

But it can't be, because the two openers, Du Plessis, AB and De Kock consume all of the 5 white slots.

In fact, even if Steyn returns at international quality, one of the openers or AB has to be dumped to fit him into the team.

In effect, Kyle Abbott's career has been ruined because no non-white openers are good enough and the only decent non-white wicketkeeper was a matchfixer.

So you know perfectly well how quotas in other positions have ruined Abbott's career.

Why can't you just say "quotas are pretty hard on some men's careers, but are for the greater good." Instead of pretending that Kyle Abbott has been treated fairly.

Perfect summary. I agree with you by words here - quotas are never good for any system. May be, in long run it'll benefit SAF Cricket, but it's really tough on few borderline individuals.

I can only hope that in 5/6 years time when there will be a decent pool of non white players, all 11 players will be selected on merit - there should be enough players from 85%+ non white community.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

We had a white SAF'an poster here Jo_Don, don't see him posting now a days. Hopefully all is well and he's still in SA.

You still do, I'm white.

Frankly, I feel the cricket administrators have done a decent job with the quotas. Our rugby unions on the other hand have none but themselves to blame. We've gone from being a feared opponent to minnow status, but that's a topic for another time and thread.

 

[Drreddymd]

[MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] u cannot see more diverse country than india .every few hundred km u see different people with different cultures,languages ,religions.south africa is no different to india in that leaders instead of working for the upliftment of suppressed people started superficial programs like reservation and use them as vote banks inorder to remain in power.the same thing is happening in southafrica i think instead of working at grass root levels they are looking for quick fix solution

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

You still do, I'm white.

Frankly, I feel the cricket administrators have done a decent job with the quotas. Our rugby unions on the other hand have none but themselves to blame. We've gone from being a feared opponent to minnow status, but that's a topic for another time and thread.

Great! I thought you were colored or may be it was [MENTION=5013]JustAnotherFan[/MENTION], doesn't matter

RSA rugby story is a sad one. I don't know if Rabada is a prodigy or has SA cricket turned a page in producing quality international black cricketers!

Does India have different races like SA? I'm not talking about tribes or religious differences.
For example Bavuma and Rabada are defined as black but are from different tribes. Kagiso is a Sotho word, so I assume Rabada is from the Sotho tribe. Temba Bavuma is either Zulu or Xhosa (I assume his Xhosa as his from Cape Town originally).
And then you have whites, coloureds and Asians (which includes those of Indian descent e.g Amla, Chinese-who were brought over for cheap labour during the colonial era, Pakistanis etc.)

Of the black population you have Zulu's (Andile Phehlukwayo), Xhosa's (Makhaya Ntini, Lonwabo Tsotsobe, Mfuneko Ngam, Monde Zondeki), Venda's, Tswanes's, Sotho's (Kagiso Rabada), Ndebele's, Tsonga's, Swazi/Swati's, Tsonga's, Pedi's. All speaking different languages of course.

South Africa is a diverse country, sometimes i wonder how on earth we are not in a civil conflict with so much diversity which in itself courses different interests. But like I sated in my previous post, with all the flak this government gets, they've do a tremendous job to ensure we don't pull in different directions.

India is much more diverse. We have 18 official languages and 4 major religions. Racially we have 3, skin color difference isn't drastic but does exist between two races of North and South in India. But as 70-75% are of 1 religion and speak/ understand 1 language we don't break, there weren't any segregation by Brits between South and North hence we get along well.

 

[Slog]

Is SA economy that bad to leave the country for 100,000 USD or GBP a year?

I guess these players just want to move out of SA and ENG is a easy destination to settle down. 25-30 years down the line we might have just 1/ 2 white players representing RSA in sports. Sad!

I often wonder whether many of the white South Africans and Zimbabweans feel that they do not even belong to Africa and that they 'deserve' to be in Europe. When apartheid was there Atleast they were the ones in power regardless of thee moral aspect of it. But now they are minority in every sense.

Almost every white Saffer (albeit small sample set) I've met was desperate to leave SA and settle in the west. Ofcourse that's the case with majority of desis but funnily enough the same desis who are desperate to go abroad are also chest thumping nationalists in most cases. But here it seems they just think there's not much patriotism ever since the blacks took over....

This is the impression I get

 

[soso_killer]

There goes the argument that if more black sportsmen play for their country, the team will decline !

Will check the documentary out, feel free to post the link.

The private schools that get to dominate Dale are multi-racial and a from Cities like PE and East London. Dale College is situated in a small town (King Williams Town). This means most of it's students are children of farmers and game reserve owners from rural areas. Some parents from PE and East London do send their kids there to keep them away from the City life which can be destructing for black Africans from privileged backgrounds. It's 70% white and 30% black.
For a school to operate at 30% of it's capacity and still be among the top 6 schools in the state/province really kills the notion that back athletes will destroy our sports.

Grey College is the most dominant private school in the whole of the Eastern Cape located in Port Elizabeth. That's because they benefit from a multi racial school even though it's still mostly dominated by whites. They are more inclusive and get to operate at 90% of their capacity. Therein lies the difference.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

[MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION], can you please share that Dale school documentary?

 

[Slog]

His Hampshire contract is about about $800,000 for 3 years, so it is more of the deal being too good to miss out and lack of opportunity to play international matches which also don't pay well. He has every reason to move out.

It's about £300k from what I heard

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

I often wonder whether many of the white South Africans and Zimbabweans feel that they do not even belong to Africa and that they 'deserve' to be in Europe. When apartheid was there Atleast they were the ones in power regardless of thee moral aspect of it. But now they are minority in every sense.

Almost every white Saffer (albeit small sample set) I've met was desperate to leave SA and settle in the west. Ofcourse that's the case with majority of desis but funnily enough the same desis who are desperate to go abroad are also chest thumping nationalists in most cases. But here it seems they just think there's not much patriotism ever since the blacks took over....

This is the impression I get

Patriotism is overrated ... even our own family members migrate to other nations where we get paid more for our skill. I agree 100% on your point of white SA maybe feeling not part of the current set up and just looking at opportunities/ excuses to leave. We can comment on financials if we know how much do these SA players earn per year in SA, which looks like a black box!

 

[Ozymandiasza]

I often wonder whether many of the white South Africans and Zimbabweans feel that they do not even belong to Africa and that they 'deserve' to be in Europe. When apartheid was there Atleast they were the ones in power regardless of thee moral aspect of it. But now they are minority in every sense.

Almost every white Saffer (albeit small sample set) I've met was desperate to leave SA and settle in the west. Ofcourse that's the case with majority of desis but funnily enough the same desis who are desperate to go abroad are also chest thumping nationalists in most cases. But here it seems they just think there's not much patriotism ever since the blacks took over....

This is the impression I get

As an Afrikaner I see myself as a white African. I have no other passport or will to leave. We have a storied history in seeking independence. Unfortunately, like many other groups, evil is also present in our history. As much as I dislike the man, our president described Afrikaners quite accurately: "Of all the white groups that are in South Africa, it is only the Afrikaners that are truly South Africans in the true sense of the word..." and "...they have been there, in whatever twists and turns this country went through..."

You indicate that there's not much patriotism, but probably spoke to some expats or English I assure you, there are many proud and patriotic whites IN South Africa.

 

[gani999]

Quota system claims another talented player

It is pure selfishness on the part of Abott, Roussow, and the other Kolpakkers who have worn the SA cap. It has nothing to do with the quota system.

Despite the quota system, these chaps got to play for SA. Now they are merely leaving for the money.

While I understand that it is ok for people to sell their skills to the highest bidder, what these SA players are doing clearly shows that they have zero patriotism towards SA, and could care less to play for their country. It is very similar to what the players who signed up for Kerry Packer's team did in the 1970s.

Because of what they are doing, the patriotism of every white player who wants to play for SA will now be suspect. It will make matters worse for the remaining white players in SA.

 

[rollingstoned]

You still do, I'm white.

Frankly, I feel the cricket administrators have done a decent job with the quotas. Our rugby unions on the other hand have none but themselves to blame. We've gone from being a feared opponent to minnow status, but that's a topic for another time and thread.

I've been to Hermanus BTW, beautiful seaside town.

 

[Dark Magician]

Sometimes I get very emotional when posters post lies about our country but I'm encouraged that there's fellow South Africans of all races that understand the circumstances we find ourselves under. Sometimes i find it difficult to eloquently explain so many things especially the injustices that have happened in our country but I'm glad others like Soso can explain realities we face as South Africans. Kyle and Rilee are gone but rest assured other white players like Markram, Wian Mulder and Theunis De Bruyn will continue being given opportunities.

 

[FlickedOffHips]

Reading what Abott has said, another reason is that he doesn't see his future in SA. It's more than just cricket.

 

[Thivagar]

Bit irrelevant but worth noting that Abbott has actually signed a 4 year contract, Rossouws is 3 years.

That's a good deal in my opinion, that's worth around 12 million rand. He doesn't get to play much IPL as well. He was once a fast bowler clocking 140's as a 19 year old. A nasty injury prior to the under 19 WC almost destroyed his career. He had to reinvent himself as he could never operate at the same pace again. He bowls at the same pace as Vernon Philander which left his place in the side insecure especially once the likes of Steyn and Morkel (for away Tests at least) returned. You can't have two thirds of an attack operating in the 120's in places like the UAE.
He's a good bowler and will be missed. What I don't agree with is the assertion that quotas denied him opportunities. SA is a bowling nation, competition for places will always be tough.
At his age it was a right decision for him to make taking into account his age.
It's a pity and a great loss for South African cricket.

Yeah I have no issues with individuals , 800 grand is more than the average pay a foreign national gets in county so good for Kyle. How do counties have so much money ?

I suspect strong anti incubency in white SA'ns to leave the country apart from money.

Initially it was 500,000 pounds for 3 years, there was a talk about 4th year extension. 4 year contract for $1 Million (US) is a very good for a cricketer. Does he still pay 45% in tax ? or do they have different tax laws for foreigners ? if he is going to be taxed the same, then he'll only make little over half of the mentioned number.

Do you not agree that Quota system still some way deprive certain players of deserving opportunity ? I understand that it is some what necessary, but do you feel that no one has gone without being held back by the quota ?

Each county is funded with close to 2 million pounds per season. Each county can have only one international player, so when you have Kyle Abott as a local player, they can have another international player and that is good for Hampshire. Same reason why Ravi Jadeja was bought by CSK few years ago for $2.2 Million US. He was a talented local player but also international quality.

 

[Swanny]

I can tell u india has quotas at every level just like transformation and each day people are tooking to the streets to be included in that quotas but never even one questioned for quota in sports

If there were quotas in our cricket team we will continue to be good at home while being trash overseas becoz that's how our cricketing structure is.

 

[Mainul]

Rossouw scored 122 in his last ODI in South African color against Australia.It's sad that international cricket has lost such a promising batsman.

 

[Jabo]

Also

Properly are annoyed as

AMLA
AB

both about to go soon too

 

[Chrish]

pretty emotional conference

 

[rollingstoned]

That interview is painful to watch, just the number of times he has to reach for his bottle says a lot.

 

[Junaids]

If Cricket South Africa were smart, they would support these contracts like they do IPL deals for their players.

All legal advice - and a lot has been taken - says that the ECB cannot require Kolpak players to stop representing their countries. It is completely unlawful.

 

[rollingstoned]

If Cricket South Africa were smart, they would support these contracts like they do IPL deals for their players.

All legal advice - and a lot has been taken - says that the ECB cannot require Kolpak players to stop representing their countries. It is completely unlawful.

I can only imagine what the overriding feeling will be if Saf beat England this summer. I still remember the ' our south africans are better than yours one' from 2012.

 

[SandyB]

"
All the cries of "why don't they just pick on merit ?" on here shows a lack of understanding of the situation. The fact is cricket in South Africa is an elitist sport. Unlike the SC, if you don't attend the private or top government schools, which are the main source of SAF Test cricketers, you cannot break through. And sadly that applies to the vast majority of black South Africans because a majority of them live in crippling poverty. Nor have cricketers in the SC been part of a community systematically oppressed by the state for nearly a century. Rabada and Bavuma are the exceptions coming from relatively wealthier families.



Quotas are imperfect but necessary for the long-term future of South Africa cricket and to address the legacy of

Well brother [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] India has its CASTE SYSTEM that has systematically subjugated millions of its population for almost 2000 years ! It wont be apparent to an outsider that easily, simply because the intermixing of various races has occurred such a level that most Indians have highly mixed ethnicity. So you cant see a clear WHite-Black-Brown differentiation here.

A glance at the number of people from the oppressed communities who have played for India (there maybe just a handful) will surely tell you how little socio-economic progress has been made over the years. That doesn't mean we need similar quota systems in sport . That would be just a cop-out by all political parties who have done very little over the years to truly eradicate this mess. But the fact remains that people subjugated for such a long period of time cant be expected to get up and get going as soon as the oppression was lifted. That explains why the quota system may have been seen as a viable soulution in SA.

The only reason the desis in this forum are playing up their patriotism card is because the SC(especially INDIA) is the most lucrative place to play cricket in the world.

Think about the situation if the US or Middle east were the most high paying Cricket audiences and our system was in dire straits . ? The volume of talent drain will put these Kolpak players to shame. See what happens to our best educated engineers ,doctors technicians etc for reference. Nobody questions their commitment to the country do they .. ?

 

[KhalidRafi]

Quite shocked tbh. The quota system is rubbish and disturbs the composition of the side but Abbott and Roussow were both doing well and I don't think they would have had that much of a trouble maintaining their place in it. Rossouw was their highest run-scorer in the series against Australia and the fact that the selectors stuck with him even though he had something like 4 ducks in his first 6 ODIs shows they had confidence in his talent. Disappointing to see both of them just turn their back on their country. Would have made more sense if they were in their 30's and declining in form.

 

[KhalidRafi]

That said, I doubt South Africa will have trouble finding their replacements. They've hardly ever had trouble finding talented cricketers.

 

[MenInG]

“I respect Kyle’s decision. I don’t understand it, but I respect it.”

South Africa’s skipper, Faf du Plessis, in one response yesterday, pretty much summed up the national sentiment around Kyle Abbott’s decision to retire from international cricket at the age of 29, and sign a three-year deal with Hampshire.

For a man who had just sealed a third straight Test series triumph as captain, Du Plessis cut a sombre figure, no doubt still soaking in the full effects of losing a strike bowler in prime form, in a series of events that he felt could have been avoided.

“I would have understood it more six months ago. It is much harder to understand it now,” Du Plessis sighed.

The Proteas skipper tried long and hard to talk his fast bowler out of the decision to nip short his international prospects, but he finally admitted defeat; he could see that it was a done deal.

“I hope that this is seen as a red flag moment by Cricket South Africa,” he urged.

Those are strong words, given that the collective lure of the pound, so-called security and patriotism are all in the melting pot when it comes to trying to keep South Africa’s best talents here.

There are growing fears that the high-profile exits of Abbott and Rilee Rossouw, on the back of Simon Harmer, Stiaan van Zyl and Hardus Viljoen departing, may see a rash of one-way tickets to Heathrow.

While some of those players have an eye on returning after improving their craft, the likes of Abbott are adamant that it is time to say goodbye, and embrace the comfort of the county scene.

“I was worried about being dropped for four years,” Abbott admitted, by way of explaining his state of mind.

Some may argue that the threat of the chop had subsided in his last four months, ironically after he had committed himself to leaving.

Du Plessis insisted that the powers that be must explore ways to keep talent in South Africa, as he also lamented the loss of Rossouw. While that is the ideal, the reality is that players’ heads get turned by any number of reasons.

“It’s not cash, cash, cash,” Cricket SA chief executive Haroon Lorgat argued, when he was asked if the Kolpak exodus could be curtailed by throwing more money at the problem.

“It’s pride, career, conversations. It’s the investment we make in them holistically. It’s other things. Right now we have got some world-class stars who are not here because we pay them substantial rands.”

Abbott has become the highest-profile casualty to the Kolpak route, and if the alarm bells were on snooze at Cricket SA before, they are now on full blast.

South Africa’s big decision makers pondered what to do to safeguard the likes of Quinton de Kock and Kagiso Rabada down the line. Is the answer in providing football-style, five-year deals that at least buy loyalty?

Or, does a proud Test nation bank on patriotism and international relevance still trumping pounds and domestic bliss?

Abbott joked about having to do grocery shopping after he stops playing, but his decision to leave South African cricket in his prime may well be the ammunition for several other counties to see the South African player market as the proverbial Black Friday.

http://www.iol.co.za/sport/cricket/proteas/this-is-a-red-flag-moment---faf-to-cricket-sa-7340711

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Can they play for England in the future? If yes then after how many years?

 

[static]

Can they play for England in the future? If yes then after how many years?

7 years.

 

[HitWicket]

David Wiese apparently about to sign as a kolpak for Sussex.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

This is becoming a joke

 

[marlonbrowndo]

David Wiese apparently about to sign as a kolpak for Sussex.

Stop stealing everyone

 

[Chief Destroyer]

pretty emotional conference

What a classy individual. Very impressive interview.

 

[Saj]

I think the Kolpak system stinks.

Expect more players to go this way though.

 

[NA]

What a classy individual. Very impressive interview.

Sorry to see him go. Quota system in selecting a national sports team doesn't make any sense, and you don't have to live in South Africa (neither today, nor during apartheid) to say that. There are many ways to ensure fair selection, one of which could be an oversight panel that can look at the selector's choices with some sort of objective lens, and even though that may turn out to be very political, it's still better than having fixed quota.

Then at the grassroots level, the sports governing body should be investing more in poverty-stricken or opportunity-starved areas, in order to get the desired population balance in major national teams, in a more organic way.

 

[Abdullah719]

Sussex Cricket are delighted to announce the signing of all-rounder David Wiese on a three-year contract.

Wiese, who will arrive at The 1st Central County Ground in June, joins Sussex under the Kolpak ruling subject to ECB permission.

The 31 year-old has played 20 T20 Internationals and six One-Day Internationals for South Africa, having taken 33 wickets across the two formats. His best International figures of 5 for 23 came against the West Indies in Durban in 2015.

He played for Sussex in two separate stints last season, firstly as an overseas player in the NatWest T20 Blast, taking 4 for 38 on debut against Somerset.

He returned in the latter part of the season to feature for Sussex in the Royal London One-Day Cup and Specsavers County Championship, hitting an unbeaten 70 against Worcestershire in the final home game of the season.

Wiese said of his move to Sussex, “I am very excited to be joining Sussex on a long term deal. I thoroughly enjoyed my stint with the club last year and it made my decision so much easier when offered to return. Sussex is an extremely ambitious club and I look forward to being part of their future.

“I would like to thank Cricket South Africa for giving me the opportunity of fulfilling my lifelong dream of representing my country in the sport I love.”

Sussex's Head Coach Mark Davis said, “We are thrilled to have David joining us at Sussex Cricket. He is an extremely accomplished all round cricketer who is effective in all formats and will bring great experience and skill to our group.

“He will add significantly to our white ball team with his bowling and powerful batting at the death and has already shown his potential last season in the longer format. His experience will be invaluable to our young developing team.”

 

[HitWicket]

Glamorgan currently finalising a kolpak deal with Marchant De Lange.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

He is 31 year old so that is understandable.

 

[shaz619]

They're all in a hurry before Brexit kicks in

 

[Gabbar Singh]

What a classy individual. Very impressive interview.

+1

I hope he does well in England and hopefully he'll get some T20 deals too.

 

[MMHS]

How long a Kolpak player needs to wait, before he can play for ENG, or is it impossible to qualify for ENG under Kolpak?

 

[static]

How long a Kolpak player needs to wait, before he can play for ENG, or is it impossible to qualify for ENG under Kolpak?

I think its 7 years since your last international game for your former country that you can play for England.

 

[MMHS]

I think its 7 years since your last international game for your former country that you can play for England.

So, basically none of these players has any international future. They are taking a trade off for a secured future, which is fine; but Abbott & Rossoue had a future for SAF I believe.

 

[giri26]

Rilee Rossouw has no regrets over Kolpak deal

Rilee Rossouw made four ducks in his first six ODI innings for South Africa. Despite a poor start, the top-order batsman was backed for his ability and went on to play 36 ODIs and 15 T20Is.

But at the start of 2017, Rossouw signed a Kolpak deal, ending his international career to sign up with English county club Hampshire. The decision drew fierce response from the then South Africa coach Russell Domingo.

However, the 29-year-old Rossouw has no qualms over his decision despite missing playing cricket for South Africa.

“It was a decision that was not made overnight‚” he was quoted as saying by Times Live on Wednesday. “I would like to stand here and tell you all the details but I don’t think it is the right time now to do that. I still have one year left on my contract in England and I have not come to think about what the future holds. As I stand here right now‚ I probably want to keep on extending.

“Obviously I do miss playing for the national team but it was a decision I made and I will stick with. I am happy and comfortable right now‚ I have learned from top quality players and how different people think.

Since his decision, Rossouw has turned out for various T20 leagues globally and feels that he has improved as a cricketer. “It has been busy since I moved to England. I have been playing a lot of cricket all around the world. I would like to think that I have improved as a cricketer,” he said.

Rossouw will represent Tshwane Spartans in the inaugural Mzansi Super League (MSL) where he will be captained by AB de Villiers. “A week ago I was on holiday and now I am here. The moment they phoned me‚ I told them that I was available to play in his tournament. I am very excited but not 100 percent sure what to expect. I am here for a short time but I want to (leave a lasting impression)‚ that is something that I will try and do for the Spartans,” he said.

https://www.cricketcountry.com/news/rilee-rossouw-has-no-regrets-over-kolpak-deal-765478

 

[Suleiman]

Gotta feel for South Africa... first apartheid getting them into forced exile from cricket, nobody willing to play with them, the best ever of their country being robbed of playing at the highest level. Now this kolpak nonsense because of the government imposed quota on sports teams, so the best they have looking elsewhere for money. Kyle Abbott was a big loss, this guy was genuine talent.

 

[JattMaula]

Gotta feel for South Africa... first apartheid getting them into forced exile from cricket, nobody willing to play with them, the best ever of their country being robbed of playing at the highest level. Now this kolpak nonsense because of the government imposed quota on sports teams, so the best they have looking elsewhere for money. Kyle Abbott was a big loss, this guy was genuine talent.

All of the above is self inflicted. Had the nation done away with racism same time with rest of the world, they would not be this position.

 

[happydavy]

Rilee Rossouw always seemed like a special talent. His upper cut six was the shot of 2015 world cup.

 

[Suleiman]

All of the above is self inflicted. Had the nation done away with racism same time with rest of the world, they would not be this position.

Obviously, I mean the South African cricket team, has nothing to do with them what laws are imposed by the country.

 

[Abdullah719]

Abbott takes 9/40 and 8/46 for Hampshire against Somerset in a 136-run win. Best ever figures by a Hampshire bowler and fourth best ever in the County Championship. Also an important result in the title race.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Kyle abbot is a good bowler. duane is mediocre.

Kyle definitely is a huge loss. He is perfect to replace steyn. Can he still come back and play for S.A? or that rule has changed now hey

 

[Saj]

Hampshire Cricket are delighted to announce that Kyle Abbott has committed his long-term future to the club, signing a new contract which will keep him at the Ageas Bowl until at least the end of 2022.

Abbott has put pen-to-paper on a new three-year deal after a record-breaking 2019 campaign in which the seamer has claimed more than 110 wickets in both red and white-ball cricket.

Kyle Abbott said: “I’m delighted to have signed a new three-year contract with Hampshire. We have a great bunch of players and coaching staff all striving to achieve success for the club and I look forward to contributing to winning trophies in the coming years. I’d like to thank Rod and Giles for giving me the opportunity to sign a new contract and all the supporters at the Ageas Bowl who have made me feel so welcome over the last three years.”

Hampshire Director of Cricket, Giles White said: “I can’t speak highly enough of Kyle. He has once again shown what a valuable asset he is to the team. He continually puts in match-winning contributions; he is a great role model for the younger players and he shows a great passion for playing for the club. For all these reasons we are delighted he will be with us for the long-term.”

Abbott, who re-joined Hampshire ahead of the 2017 season after featuring as an overseas player in 2014, has proved to be integral to the success of James Vince’s side during his time with the club so far, claiming 293 wickets an average of just 21.43 across all formats.

The right-armer’s consistency in that time has been remarkable, particularly in red-ball cricket, where he’s claimed 183 first-class wickets at just 18.78 apiece including a return of more than 50 wickets in each of the last three County Championship campaigns. An incredible performance against Somerset in the final home fixture of this season which saw Abbott claim a career-best 9-40 in the first-innings as well as career-best match figures of 17-86, has helped take his competition tally to 72 in 2019.

Alongside his red-ball success, Abbott has also been a prominent feature of Hampshire’s white-ball attack across the last three seasons. His 17 wickets in the 2017 edition of the T20 Blast helped secure a seventh Finals Day appearances in eight years, whilst the paceman topped the club’s wicket-taker list in this year’s tournament, taking 20 scalps at an average of 17.80.

Although an ankle injury prevented him from playing a part in Hampshire’s 2018 Royal London One-Day Cup triumph, Abbott was vital to sealing a second successive Final appearance at Lord’s this summer - his 20 wickets was the fourth highest return of any player in the competition.