Lack of attacking spinners - This may cost Pakistan

[Hawkeye]

After the thrashing pace bowlers have received on these flat pitches, Pak think (thick) tank still did not think of including a genuine spinner in the squad.

The middle overs are where we're lacking, this could have been helped by including spinners who can strangle the opposition batters and/or take wickets.

All we have is Shadab, who isn't a bad option, but there's nobody to partner him.

Imad Wasim is a darter at best and Hafeez isn't as effective without his old action.

Pak could have gone all the way through if we had one genuine spin option to partner Shadab.

 

[adil79]

Yeah well, what we have, we are not using it any better

 

[Arham_PakFan]

I wish we had a guy like Tahir or Kuldeep.

We don't have a spinner we can be confident in of taking wickets.

 

[Mueez]

Zafar Gohar and Usama Mir should be groomed after the WC.

And I think we have a decent spin-attack, however it isn’t used properly.

The field placement isn’t helping the spinners either.

 

[Syed1]

Inzi the revolutionary never even picked Zafar Gohar or Usama Mir

 

[Mr.Q]

World Cup is here and me is back!

Don’t understand what you mean by ‘attacking’. More flighted deliveries?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think this has already been well covered in the thread about lack of specialist spinner might cost Pakistan.

 

[JibranAnsari]

well many have been saying this for a year now. No use now. We have to be content with the current lot.

Mamoon imtiyaz is a good upcoming spinner , hope we see in a couple of years time.

 

[classic]

Just get Hafeez in to bowl slow flighted delivery. Imad can also ball stump to stump.. Need to get them coming forward. Looking forward to it now.

 

[Kianig89]

Should have picked MUHAMMAD NAWAZ instead of duds Hafeez Malik or Imad

 

[Savak]

Lol and some people want the incompetent conman Mickey Arthur retained. Inzamam gave Mickey Arthur the spinners like Bilal Asif, Asghar for UAE, it was Mickey's decision not to play them.

 

[adil79]

Our spinners are darting it in. Shadab trying to imitate Imad, to contain runs. If only they bowl around 75kph with odd variation of faster deliveries, that would help a lot

 

[Boi]

Don’t need attacking spinners when we have ‘aggression’ in the form of Wahab Riaz.

 

[Zeeraq]

Zafar Gohar, Mohammad Asfhar and Usama Mir should've been groomed - Pakistan recent obsession with defensive bowling attack isn't working.

 

[Kianig89]

Quality Spinners flexible middle order batsman pinch hitters solid hitters finishers new ball bowlers death bowlers Pakistan lack all these

 

[warcry]

on one hand we apparently dont have spiners in domestic circuit.
on the other hand, there are guys like Tahir and Usman Qadi, going abroad to play cricket.

Its the selectors.
I cant think of any new spinners being given any opportunity to play for pakistan, barring Yasir shah , Bilal Asif ( for a few tests) and that bits & pieces useless spinner Mohammed Nawaz.

 

[CricketDon]

If only inzi has relatives or nephews who were spinners

 

[sshakir411]

Complains about the lack of attacking spinner then goes on to describe why each spinner isn’t good. No mention of an attacking spinner who could have been selected. I wonder why?

 

[Hasan123]

And we are told Inzi is a great chief selector

 

[jnaveen1980]

Rashid khan is a great option for any team to have. He can bowl, field superbly, slog decently.

 

[Energy]

A confident Shadab will make a massive difference to the spin department. Desperately need someone to put his foot down.

 

[BaankeJi]

Rashid khan is a great option for any team to have. He can bowl, field superbly, slog decently.

Every team should select him in final xi.

 

[Khwaja78]

Hilarious thread after 3-4 years of Inzamam's sick tenure.

Not once anyone posted on the kind of devastation Inzamam is doing to the team. When he made 6 changes for the recent series v Australia, no one posted on Inzamam's pathetic ways to get Umar Akmal in the team.

After Pakistan's recent drubbing against England, again he pushed his mafia's favorite Wahab where he could've brought in a batsman.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

After the thrashing pace bowlers have received on these flat pitches, Pak think (thick) tank still did not think of including a genuine spinner in the squad.

The middle overs are where we're lacking, this could have been helped by including spinners who can strangle the opposition batters and/or take wickets.

All we have is Shadab, who isn't a bad option, but there's nobody to partner him.

Imad Wasim is a darter at best and Hafeez isn't as effective without his old action.

Pak could have gone all the way through if we had one genuine spin option to partner Shadab.

We tried Yasir Shah and Mohd Nawaz and they both failed to impress. No one else has been on the radar. Besides Bilal Asif. Umar Khan is not ready yet, as is Mohd Hasnain but We took a gamble on Hasnain. Shadab and Imad are both allrounders and more then capable to perform.

 

[MMHS]

World Cup is here and me is back!

Don’t understand what you mean by ‘attacking’. More flighted deliveries?

More of a genuine turner of the ball who can vary pace in flight, and has bowling variations. Also, they bowl long spells in domestics, which makes their control better - if batsmen try to go after, more likely will miss one wicket taking ball. These spinners can get even set batsman out with right field placings between middle overs when batsmen will try to milk 5-6 singles every over.

Instead of investing on spinners that make the team in duel merit, PAK should have tried best two spinners of the country regardless of their batting. England & Bangladesh are a bit lucky that both their best available spinners can bat as well (AFG too - Rashid & Nabi are good with bat), otherwise every team bar PAK, SRL & WIN have picked at least one player to bowl 10 overs spin and a genuine contender for No. 11 batting spot.

 

[Mr.Q]

More of a genuine turner of the ball who can vary pace in flight, and has bowling variations. Also, they bowl long spells in domestics, which makes their control better - if batsmen try to go after, more likely will miss one wicket taking ball. These spinners can get even set batsman out with right field placings between middle overs when batsmen will try to milk 5-6 singles every over.

Instead of investing on spinners that make the team in duel merit, PAK should have tried best two spinners of the country regardless of their batting. England & Bangladesh are a bit lucky that both their best available spinners can bat as well (AFG too - Rashid & Nabi are good with bat), otherwise every team bar PAK, SRL & WIN have picked at least one player to bowl 10 overs spin and a genuine contender for No. 11 batting spot.

Thanks man. I noticed that Pakistan has been producing some spinners who give priority to low economy rates. That is indeed defensive and they’re products of low scoring T20 matches, which Pakistan play a lot and give priority to. Spinners who have the exposure to high scoring matches definitely have a different approach, the aggressive style like you mentioned. My question then is, is it a mindset issue or a skill issue or both?

 

[AZ]

the sad fact there is no matchwinning spinner in Pak at the moment, Umer Khan looks a bright prospect & that is about it.

 

[MMHS]

Thanks man. I noticed that Pakistan has been producing some spinners who give priority to low economy rates. That is indeed defensive and they’re products of low scoring T20 matches, which Pakistan play a lot and give priority to. Spinners who have the exposure to high scoring matches definitely have a different approach, the aggressive style like you mentioned. My question then is, is it a mindset issue or a skill issue or both?

I think it’s because of too many cricket in UAE - that wicket is absolute sh!t for quality spinners - doesn’t bounce at all, doesn’t break even in day 5, and even if it breaks, it turns dead slow and low. Instead of classical spin with flight & loop, those wickets are suited for fastish accurate spinners. Ajmal with his old action was a freak but every other PAK spinner successful on those tracks will be useless most times in true wickets - Afridi, Hafeez, Babar, Nawaz, Imad ..... even Yasir’s record is pathetic outside compared to his UAE (& WIN, similar wickets) standard.

PAK hardly plays with other Asian better batting sides - IND played there after 12+ years, BD probably last millennium hence PAK spinners with their darting were not exposed earlier. Only Asian team that PAK plays regularly there has a much better Win record in Test. Even if you look at non Asian sides - once they settle in UAE, by 2nd/3rd Test, their record is quite good, that actually indicates that UAE dominance by PAK darters were artificially built, which was badly exposed in Asia Cup. PCT tank is still delusional that darting is the way in UAE, which actually isn’t the case - you’ll see that in ICC Test Championship series between PAK-BD next winter.

And, last but not the least - Arthur as coach definitely not helping the cause

 

[Mercurial]

I think Shadab and Imad combo will be more than enough. Imad should open the bowling with the new ball, as he will get that drift. The issue is our fast bowling, they have gone with TTFs.

 

[Hawkeye]

IND running through sides with their specialist spinners.

Who can turn the ball and have variations.

We are bowling part timers or darters.

 

[Savak]

IND running through sides with their specialist spinners.

Who can turn the ball and have variations.

We are bowling part timers or darters.

Mickey Arthur's final assignment as Pakistani coach

 

[Markhor]

We meanwhile carry on picking darters and pseudo ARs.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

I wish we had a guy like Tahir or Kuldeep.

We don't have a spinner we can be confident in of taking wickets.

Under mickey that is not possible... he likes bits and pieces only... he needs a bowler who can bat a bit.. and a batsman who can bowl a bit. That is the case why bilal asif, mohd nawaz got games ahead of asghar, usama mir, zafar gohar, umer khan and ibtisam sheikh so far..


If he is the India coach he wouldnt have kuldeep and chahal in his team but would go with jadeja and ashwin or even bhajji in his lineup....

 

[Hawkeye]

Mickey Arthur's final assignment as Pakistani coach

We meanwhile carry on picking darters and pseudo ARs.

Under mickey that is not possible... he likes bits and pieces only... he needs a bowler who can bat a bit.. and a batsman who can bowl a bit. That is the case why bilal asif, mohd nawaz got games ahead of asghar, usama mir, zafar gohar, umer khan and ibtisam sheikh so far..


If he is the India coach he wouldnt have kuldeep and chahal in his team but would go with jadeja and ashwin or even bhajji in his lineup....

For the most part, blame indeed goes to Mickey Arthur and Sarfraz.

They should have learnt from the success of IND, KulCha have been so vital for them. Yet we kept picking up railu kattas.

Containers as specialist spinners will never work in ODIs.

 

[Markhor]

Under mickey that is not possible... he likes bits and pieces only... he needs a bowler who can bat a bit.. and a batsman who can bowl a bit. That is the case why bilal asif, mohd nawaz got games ahead of asghar, usama mir, zafar gohar, umer khan and ibtisam sheikh so far..


If he is the India coach he wouldnt have kuldeep and chahal in his team but would go with jadeja and ashwin or even bhajji in his lineup....

I agree. I remember England in the 1990s and 2000s had a habit of picking every bits and pieces player imaginable in ODIs and none of them amounted to anything.

From now on we should select our best five batsman, our best keeper batsman, best all rounder, and best four bowlers.

Why overcomplicate things and introduce these pseudo cricketers ?

 

[amvbfm]

For the most part, blame indeed goes to Mickey Arthur and Sarfraz.

They should have learnt from the success of IND, KulCha have been so vital for them. Yet we kept picking up railu kattas.

Containers as specialist spinners will never work in ODIs.

Not just spinners the overall mentality and strategy of Sarfaraz and Mickey is ultra defensive. Don't know how they think they can win by using defensive tactics with a fairly mediocre team. With modern day pitches, regulations and the tactics employed by most top teams you just don't have any chance playing defensive cricket. The only way you can contain teams like England and India is by taking wickets and Imad and Hafeez aren't going to get you many. Neither will the pacers if you don't support them with aggressive fields. They squandered the opportunity of at least trying out someone like Umer or Gohar by persisting with Yasir through two whole series. Also dropped their highest wicket taker of the past few months.

 

[nads_rocks]

Its time to admit, we are not more a threat whether its pace bowling or spin.
India are now the perfect unit in all 3 departments.
Their bowlers took apart our batsman.
Their batsman took apart our bowlers.

 

[amvbfm]

I agree. I remember England in the 1990s and 2000s had a habit of picking every bits and pieces player imaginable in ODIs and none of them amounted to anything.

From now on we should select our best five batsman, our best keeper batsman, best all rounder, and best four bowlers.

Why overcomplicate things and introduce these pseudo cricketers ?

Those bits and pieces might work in T20 but ODIs you can't have a batsman who can't last 15 balls or a bowler who can not take wickets. Their influx in ODIs has been a result of T20 cricket which has been a blessing for many of the bits and pieces players who would otherwise never have played any international cricket. Those bits and pieces English cricketers of the 90s and 2000s the Reeves and Iranis and Dalrymples might have had very successful careers had they been born a generation later.

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan has spinners who can take wickets , but issue is selectors have not given them opportunity.

 

[Savak]

Not sure why Zafar Gohar and Umar Khan were not tried. We have Usama Mir in domestic cricket. Yasir Shah's bowling has really declined since 2014-15 because there was a time period when he would spin the ball prodigously but now he is just a gun barrel straight wicket to wicket bowler.

 

[Itachi]

Its time to admit, we are not more a threat whether its pace bowling or spin.
India are now the perfect unit in all 3 departments.
Their bowlers took apart our batsman.
Their batsman took apart our bowlers.

Indian batsman gave respect to amir. If they went after him, destruction was awaiting.

 

[Stumper]

they gave respect correct, coz he was bowling well & from other end they were able to get the runs pretty easily.
But with Babar & Fakhar they should have scored more in 15 overs, even if they being told to take the game deep. Provided bhuvi & Bumrah both were fit they will not concede 140+ in last 10 overs. and they also will be aware of KulCha will be bowling in middle overs, & its very rare they have gone wiketless in game.

The excuse i gets is they are not experienced but even if playing for country for more then two years if you don't give experience & 50 odd odi's i don't know what will give you that experience.

 

[Justcrazy]

For the most part, blame indeed goes to Mickey Arthur and Sarfraz.

They should have learnt from the success of IND, KulCha have been so vital for them. Yet we kept picking up railu kattas.

Containers as specialist spinners will never work in ODIs.

It can work on seamers friendly pitches.

 

[sugumarrising]

Not seen many of fakhar, Babar & imam games in this world cup only I am watching them regularly, one thing I can say is the way fakhar & Babar batted yesterday was very strange already the asking rate is 7 plus India lost one of its main bowler due to injury, knowing that India is a bowler short instead of going after the part timer's they scored only 4 or 5 runs per over, I have seen other threads by Pakistan friends about how selfish the top 3 are, yesterday they played a selfish innings in my opinion, which cost them not only the game but also no contest at all, for some fans after a fluke victory against england due to their batting Pakistan suddenly after 1 match became one of the 3 best batting line up in the world cup, please stop this kinds of jokes.

 

[Pakhs]

Only one of Imam or Shadab can play in ODIs (Can play both in T20s). The other spinner should be a specialist and not an all-rounder.

 

[Pakhs]

they gave respect correct, coz he was bowling well & from other end they were able to get the runs pretty easily.
But with Babar & Fakhar they should have scored more in 15 overs, even if they being told to take the game deep. Provided bhuvi & Bumrah both were fit they will not concede 140+ in last 10 overs. and they also will be aware of KulCha will be bowling in middle overs, & its very rare they have gone wiketless in game.

The excuse i gets is they are not experienced but even if playing for country for more then two years if you don't give experience & 50 odd odi's i don't know what will give you that experience.

They are not as experienced as Rohit or Kholi but experienced enough to know whats coming. Another thing is Kuldeep bowled really well and the wickets his got were deserved. They were trying to play him out but his bowl to Babar was one of the best in the WC and that changed the game.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

I agree. I remember England in the 1990s and 2000s had a habit of picking every bits and pieces player imaginable in ODIs and none of them amounted to anything.

From now on we should select our best five batsman, our best keeper batsman, best all rounder, and best four bowlers.

Why overcomplicate things and introduce these pseudo cricketers ?

Also the reason why he always select yasir ahead of other leggies when shadab is injured...

now in this worldcup selection that is another reason why UKS, JUNAID where an easy drop compared to hasnain as they see some batting potential with hasnain.. expected faheem to bat better than other bowlers which he failed , so packed his bags too.. Also a reason why wahab is preferred over shaheen when shaheen nearly can bowl at the same speed...


Under Mickey long live bits and pieces, Imad might even be made captain after this CWC, because MA loves them...

 

[ask_analyse_act]

For the most part, blame indeed goes to Mickey Arthur and Sarfraz.

They should have learnt from the success of IND, KulCha have been so vital for them. Yet we kept picking up railu kattas.

Containers as specialist spinners will never work in ODIs

.

will never work in any format.. taking wickets is the only way of containing runs..

 

[HGhazanfar]

I agree. I remember England in the 1990s and 2000s had a habit of picking every bits and pieces player imaginable in ODIs and none of them amounted to anything.

From now on we should select our best five batsman, our best keeper batsman, best all rounder, and best four bowlers.

Why overcomplicate things and introduce these pseudo cricketers ?

5 Best limited over bats
Sharjeel
Fakhar
Babar
Asad Shafique
Umar Akmal

Best Wicket Keeper Batsmen for LOI
Kamran Akmal WK

Best Allrounder (Have to go with spin option since pace allrounder is not available)
Iftikhar Ahmed
Khusdil Shah

Best Spinner
Zafar Gohar

Best Pacer
M Amir
Usman Shinwari
Haris Rauf

Based off your theory we would have constructed the below team which would have actually looked deadly.

Fakhar
Babar (Opens since Sharjeel on ban)
Asad Shafique
Umar Akmal
Iftikhar Ahmed
Kamran Akmal WK
Khusdil Shah
Zafar Gohar
Amir C
Usman Shinwari
Haris Rauf

 

[MenInG]

Saeed Ajmal's views on finger spinners

PakPassion.net: What’s the reason for the lack of finger-spinners in Pakistan cricket?

Saeed Ajmal: It appears that the PCB is not giving much attention to this issue. What they need to do is to make a concerted effort to address this worrying situation by gathering the top Under-19 and Under-16 spin talents to a training camp. Pakistan is one country where there is an unlimited supply of cricketing talent, but all we need to do is to find this talent at such camps and polish it further.

With a strategy like what I am proposing, I am sure that within one year, we will be able to unearth some excellent spin prospects for the country. We desperately need spinners for the Test format as in ODIs and T20Is, we already have some decent spinners in the shape of Shadab Khan and Imad Wasim. We have a situation where there is no backup for Yasir Shah and that is a source of huge concern. I also urge up and coming finger spinners in the country to work hard at their game as the position of a second spinner is wide open in the Pakistan side and there for the taking.