Rana
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Contact the PP Team
Lack of intent from our middle-order batters is nothing short of criminal
- Thread starter Usman
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BunnyRabbit
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I was all for Hafeez in the team last year as well. And if the tournament were to be held in Asia(which it was last year), Shoaib Malik becomes a fulcrum of the middle order.
But now the captain has had his way and is taking the guys to Australia that he wanted to, there should be no reason for failure and Babar wouldn't be able to deflect the blame on anyone else.
Well I see it a bit differently....
1st game.....openers gave very decent platform of 85 in 9 overs only for the middle-order to waste it with Pakistan ultimately limping to 158. There was more than enough time for them to create an impact here.
2nd game...Openers chase 200 unbeaten
3rd game....both openers gone cheaply inside 4 overs chasing 210.
Yes, a win was probably beyond them but middle-order had ample time to finally get some runs and express themselves and probably take Pakistan to atleast 180, but all failed except Shan.
4th game...Openers gave a pretty decent start with 95 runs in 11.3 ovs
Rizwan struggles to finish at death and ends with 88(67) SR 131.
Shan Masood coming in at 97/1 in 11.3 overs plays a knock of 21(19)......don't think he can complain of not having enough time.
5th game...Babar gets out in 3rd over, middle-order fails yet again with Rizwan holding one end up and and getting a match-winning 63(46) in a low-scoring game.
6th game....Rizwan is rested.
And the only myth busted that night was that Babar and Rizwan are holding the team back and if they don't open Pakistan will post 60 runs in PP.
In this game, after PP, Pak were 40/2 with Babar 25(19) and all others 15(17).
So much for ''Shan Masood and Khushdil Shah open the batting they can score 40 to 50 without loss in 6 overs without any demons".........not saying they can't but perhaps it's not as easy as you think.
Pakistan ended up with below par 170 with the middle order not doing much yet again apart from Iftikhar.
Babar ends up with 87(59) SR 147 and everyone else contributing 77(61) SR 126.
7th game.....both openers fall inside 2 ovs with middle-order facing a daunting task of chasing 11rpo.
But tell me honestly, at which stage did you feel they had any intention of going for the win....they all went at run-a-ball for 90% of the inngs.
So, it's all on Babar/ Rizwan.
If they score Pakistan compete and might end up winning a few.
And when they fail it's curtains.
The complain isn't really about the middle-order failing to win games when RRR is 12 rpo but rather them going at 6-7 rpo even at that stage.
Agree with your point that the team management could've tested them out even better by resting Babar/Rizwan on more occassions......but having said that I do feel the middle-order has had enough chances to make an impact in this particular series and they have failed miserably.
I know that Babar/Rizwan won't chase 200 against GOOD ATTACKS but their odds of doing it is still much higher than anyone else in this Pakistan team.
There's a reason that almost all of Pakistan's highest ever run-chases have come through Babar/Rizwan.
If opening the batting is as easy as you're making it out to be then why couldn't any of the past openers do it, not even against the weakest of bowling attacks.
Not saying that Babar/Rizwan are perfect, they have their own limitations but I feel it's unfair to blame them for the failure of others below them.
Going forward,
IMO, Babar can probably come at #3, if required
But Rizwan has to either open or be dropped altogether.
Even then, the real question still remains about what's to follow them.
I don't see how changing the openers will solve Pakistan's middle-order woes.
Btw, what would be your best lineup for the WC...
Mainul
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Humm. Good point.
Dr_Bassim
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Throw of the dice.
After dropping Babar and Rizwan altogether for the tri series, we can use this probable combination in World Cup
1. Asif
2. Rizwan
3. Babar
4. Shadab
5. Nawaz
6. I would play Imad as he strengthens spin and batting.
7. Ifti
8. Naseem
9. Rauf
10. Shaheen
11. Hasnain
I don't think a team of Shadab , Nawaz and Imad and Ifti would lose many matches by playing in middle order.
Infact, my team can actually make it to semi final and then maybe fluke a final.
Kianig89
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Dr. saab aint the role of openers and middle order a bit different in T20
AamchiMumbaikar
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Babar and Rizwan are like KL Rahul
They score regularly but with a slightly low SR
Once in a while they will score at a high SR when there are questions asked just like KL. They will have a very high batting average because they consume lots of deliveries and play for at least 10 overs.
Overall batting avg and SR will look good.
But when the going gets tough and they need to score in a important finals/ knock out either they will fail or law of averages will get to them.
So rest of the order need to do the job which they are not used to, as they never get regular 10 overs of batting!!!
They score regularly but with a slightly low SR
Once in a while they will score at a high SR when there are questions asked just like KL. They will have a very high batting average because they consume lots of deliveries and play for at least 10 overs.
Overall batting avg and SR will look good.
But when the going gets tough and they need to score in a important finals/ knock out either they will fail or law of averages will get to them.
So rest of the order need to do the job which they are not used to, as they never get regular 10 overs of batting!!!
AamchiMumbaikar
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Babar is also the captain and plays a part in selection, when he knows the problem why not bring in 2 high rewarding hacks as openers and play at 3, 4.
If the hacks get out, Babar and Rizwan can aaram se play rest of the innings.
Very rarely you see a swinging pitch in T20's so no team needs a technically correct opener to preserve their wicket.
If the hacks get out, Babar and Rizwan can aaram se play rest of the innings.
Very rarely you see a swinging pitch in T20's so no team needs a technically correct opener to preserve their wicket.
kingusama92
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Lack of intent starts from the openers. Not just the middle order.
Babar and Rizwan are brilliant but gotta call them out for their selfishness. They bat for themselves for long stretches and it spreads throughout the team like a virus.
The entire middle order looks up to them (obviously) and they set the wrong tone. As a result, when Khushdil walks into the middle, he does the same thing and does it worse.
This team is incredibly selfish and weak-hearted when batting. The bowling attack is fire when healthy but the batting mindset is minnow-level.
Babar and Rizwan are brilliant but gotta call them out for their selfishness. They bat for themselves for long stretches and it spreads throughout the team like a virus.
The entire middle order looks up to them (obviously) and they set the wrong tone. As a result, when Khushdil walks into the middle, he does the same thing and does it worse.
This team is incredibly selfish and weak-hearted when batting. The bowling attack is fire when healthy but the batting mindset is minnow-level.
AamchiMumbaikar
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Also get rid off fraud players like Ifti, Happy heart and Asif
They click once in a blue moon, not worth the investment made on them. Except WOOD no one bowls > 140 in ENG side, but they are hard to score off because of variations so PAK fans don't get excited when someone bowls at 145, in T20's it does not matter much unless you have SUPREME control. Have guys who can bat a bit and can bowl intelligently.
They click once in a blue moon, not worth the investment made on them. Except WOOD no one bowls > 140 in ENG side, but they are hard to score off because of variations so PAK fans don't get excited when someone bowls at 145, in T20's it does not matter much unless you have SUPREME control. Have guys who can bat a bit and can bowl intelligently.
AamchiMumbaikar
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Other country's batsmen look to be playing another game when compared with ours in international T20s. English batsmen always looked in control and never settle for dots or singles. They found boundaries with ease and put pressure on the bowlers. Our batsmen dont look confident even after hitting a 6.
Dr_Bassim
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Asif can strike and I cant find any other place for Rizwan.
Babar can do his anchoring at 3.
Stroke makers in Shadab, Nawaz, Imad @4 5 and 6.
Ifti at 7
4 spin options 4 pace options.
Not sure how the team is bad?
Nikhil_cric
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Lack of intent is a myth. Pakistan's Attack rating for a T20 series has been its highest ever. In other words, Pakistani batsmen have tried to attack more often than they ever have.
It is not intent that is lacking . It is the skill to execute that is lacking.
It is not intent that is lacking . It is the skill to execute that is lacking.
Usman Chadda
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How many matches have Babar and Rizwan won you?
How many matches have the middle-order won you?
Why change the one part of your batting that’s working to fix the part that is not? What kind of diagnosis is this?
Rather than find better players for the middle-order, the openers should come in and bat in the middle-order. MashaAllah, what thinking. No wonder we have Khushdil Shahs playing for Pakistan right now
Rana
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How many matches have Babar and Rizwan won you?
How many matches have the middle-order won you?
Why change the one part of your batting that’s working to fix the part that is not? What kind of diagnosis is this?
Rather than find better players for the middle-order, the openers should come in and bat in the middle-order. MashaAllah, what thinking. No wonder we have Khushdil Shahs playing for Pakistan right now
The one part that isn’t working is the most important part
That’s where the best batsmen in the world play. Not cower away into the powerplay slots
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Legendary Pakistan bowler Wasim Akram was particularly unhappy with the home team's efforts with the bat.
"When Pakistan came out to bat, they thought the match was finished when Babar and Rizwan departed in the second over," he told Sky Sports.
"I don't mind any team losing, as long as they go for it, try it. You can't take the game long because of the required rate. Half the stadium is empty, people have gone.
"The people of Pakistan love and understand cricket. They understand when the team goes for it and loses. But when you are not even trying to win the match, that will definitely hurt the fans."
Fellow Pakistan great Waqar Younis was also disappointed to see Pakistan's middle order more concerned with trying to bat out the overs than attempt to chase down the admittedly mammoth target.
"Once again, the intent was missing," he said. "You are going to lose two early wickets, maybe three, but you've got to keep going. There is no point hanging in there knowing you are going to lose.
"That's why the criticism is going to come, the crowd have left - nobody likes the approach. The way Pakistan have approached this game, too many dot deliveries, not enough boundaries. They gave up very, very early in the game."
BBC
"When Pakistan came out to bat, they thought the match was finished when Babar and Rizwan departed in the second over," he told Sky Sports.
"I don't mind any team losing, as long as they go for it, try it. You can't take the game long because of the required rate. Half the stadium is empty, people have gone.
"The people of Pakistan love and understand cricket. They understand when the team goes for it and loses. But when you are not even trying to win the match, that will definitely hurt the fans."
Fellow Pakistan great Waqar Younis was also disappointed to see Pakistan's middle order more concerned with trying to bat out the overs than attempt to chase down the admittedly mammoth target.
"Once again, the intent was missing," he said. "You are going to lose two early wickets, maybe three, but you've got to keep going. There is no point hanging in there knowing you are going to lose.
"That's why the criticism is going to come, the crowd have left - nobody likes the approach. The way Pakistan have approached this game, too many dot deliveries, not enough boundaries. They gave up very, very early in the game."
BBC
Sorry to say in this particular 7 match series there was only one game where the middle order didn't got any chance as 200 was chased down with ease by openers. In other six matches middle order have all the time to show their potential but they showed zero performance and even the intent was missing in some matches. Right now its like 2 wickets down, its game over or rest all depends on ur super phaast bowlers.
jusarrived
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your middle order lacks experience, the easy solution is bring at least one off Babar and Rizwan down the order.
When your best players take up the easiest role in cricket today of opening in T20s, your batting will continue to look poor. offourse some of these guys who barely get few balls to bat when batting is easy will look at personal milestones in matches like yesterdays which was a lost cause after openers went early anway.
When your best players take up the easiest role in cricket today of opening in T20s, your batting will continue to look poor. offourse some of these guys who barely get few balls to bat when batting is easy will look at personal milestones in matches like yesterdays which was a lost cause after openers went early anway.
So Babar should come at three and break the one thing that is actually working for our batting?
How long will we keep giving excuses for the other batsmen? They are the best performers in PSL and every other domestic competition in Pakistan. Why not push them to just play better?
I’m sorry but looking around at the options, we do not have middle-order batsmen at all.
The so called “one thing that’s working” can be a backup option in a preparatory series such as this.
It is not against the law to try something different. This was a big missed opportunity for trying pinch hitters. You had SEVEN matches. I would have for 3-4 matches given one batsman a promotion to the top of the order and say “your job is simple, hit out during the powerplay, we don’t care if you get out”. See if that becomes an option. If they get out early, you’ve only lost one wicket and babar and rizwan can continue on their merry way stabilising, nudging etc to their heart’s content after that. People forget we have TEN wickets to play with in TWENTY overs - that is actually insane.
And if the whole experiment was a complete failure, you revert to the “one thing that’s working”. Nothing lost but potentially an option gained.
And do you know what I see happening? Panic will set in after a couple of losses during the World Cup and what will we do - Experiment in a World Cup!
Rana
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They did that with Harris
The Babar/Rizwan fans here were going nuts in the match thread
That too was a forced change because of Rizwan’s injury. I very much doubt any instructions about maximising the powerplay were even given to Haris.
MRSN
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This is the best I have seen Wasim spoke in a long long time. Have some shame Baber and co.
IMMY69
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Babar & Rizwan are absolutely fine. Its the others you have to worry about.
Yesterday was a case in point. You lose your top two and the rest are incapable of winning let alone making the game competitive.
Asif can slog for ten balls, Ifti only has one gear and mostly has to slog to get the big boundaries which means he's going to fail more often then not.
We could have tried to change the openers for this series but, and lets be honest here, with the players we have, the only glimmer of hope is if Babar and Rizwan score massively with one or two of the sloggers coming good.
The big problem we have is Fakhar being our of form, Hafeez retiring and our failure to find another reliable middle order batsman. But even with all this I do think that we need a change of coach and captain for the T20'.
Yesterday was a case in point. You lose your top two and the rest are incapable of winning let alone making the game competitive.
Asif can slog for ten balls, Ifti only has one gear and mostly has to slog to get the big boundaries which means he's going to fail more often then not.
We could have tried to change the openers for this series but, and lets be honest here, with the players we have, the only glimmer of hope is if Babar and Rizwan score massively with one or two of the sloggers coming good.
The big problem we have is Fakhar being our of form, Hafeez retiring and our failure to find another reliable middle order batsman. But even with all this I do think that we need a change of coach and captain for the T20'.
DeadlyVenom
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Babar and Rizwan have done ok.
But they are not naturally top order batsmen. They started their career in the middle order and play the other formats in the middle.
Pakistan ( on paper) has an abundance of top order batsmen - Saim, Sahibzada, Shan, Fakhar, Haider, Sharjeel Khan.
According to everyone....Pakistan has no middle order batsmen.
Surely we should then be considering letting the guys who open in domestic actually open in international and maybe move the make shift openers into the middle, where they began their careers and where they bat in the other formats!
Yes they are "successful" but the teams success matters more.
Given recent events perhaps this is the way to go?
1. Fakhar
2. Haider
3. Babar
4. Rizwan
5. Chacha
6. Asif
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DeadlyVenom
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I was ( and am) a big fan of Babar. He is one of the best batsmen across formats we have produced.
But when I saw how he batted during the recent PSL I realised that either he doesn't have the heart or he doesn't have the capability to take a risk.
The national team cricket should have came into the tournament with his chest puffed out, standing 10 feet tall and massacring the bowlers. Even if he failed it wouldn't have really been a big deal. Franchise is the lowest form of cricket....but he could have used the opportunity to develop and expand his game.
Instead he tukd tukd and often remained not out on a 50.
If he can't boss his own domestic league he will mainly struggle in international t20.
But when I saw how he batted during the recent PSL I realised that either he doesn't have the heart or he doesn't have the capability to take a risk.
The national team cricket should have came into the tournament with his chest puffed out, standing 10 feet tall and massacring the bowlers. Even if he failed it wouldn't have really been a big deal. Franchise is the lowest form of cricket....but he could have used the opportunity to develop and expand his game.
Instead he tukd tukd and often remained not out on a 50.
If he can't boss his own domestic league he will mainly struggle in international t20.
Exactly - I don’t understand the rigidity. You want openers to play in the middle order and the middle order as openers.
Asif Ali hits 160 sixes in practise but only had 2 sixes in the whole series.
Has Asif Ali batted in the top 4 before?
Rana
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https://twitter.com/tuk_tuk96/status/1577045987100880896?s=46&t=RhN_4IMt6zR9XQyI6KQAuQ
This tweet is so accurate
This tweet is so accurate
Overall the problem with our team management is they don’t look at all parts of a t20. They don’t break up the 20 overs and have a strategy for each phase.
It’s always about looking at negativity
“ooooooh let’s not break up the babar and Riz combo - if we do that it’s the one thing that’s working”.
“What if ooooh a pinch hitter gets out early…..ooooh what will we do”. You have 10 damn wickets to play with in 20 overs!
“We don’t want to have our power hitters come on too early because ooooooh if they get out we won’t have any power hitters to take advantage of the last 2 overs. What a disaster!”
It’s really is so ridiculous.
How about this.
Babar and Riz are what we build our team around. Sure no problem. Does that mean they absolutely HAVE to open?
The first 6 overs are about risk/reward, but we don’t want to risk an early wicket. Why? Risk it! Because guess what you’ve always got babar and riz to mitigate against that risk.
First 6 overs - pinch hitters to go for it
After that babar and Riz can do what they do best.
Some lusty blows at the end - this can be done by anyone. We’ve even seen Dahani and Naseem do this.
Instead of centring everything on not disturbing the “one thing that is working” look at everything.
It’s always about looking at negativity
“ooooooh let’s not break up the babar and Riz combo - if we do that it’s the one thing that’s working”.
“What if ooooh a pinch hitter gets out early…..ooooh what will we do”. You have 10 damn wickets to play with in 20 overs!
“We don’t want to have our power hitters come on too early because ooooooh if they get out we won’t have any power hitters to take advantage of the last 2 overs. What a disaster!”
It’s really is so ridiculous.
How about this.
Babar and Riz are what we build our team around. Sure no problem. Does that mean they absolutely HAVE to open?
The first 6 overs are about risk/reward, but we don’t want to risk an early wicket. Why? Risk it! Because guess what you’ve always got babar and riz to mitigate against that risk.
First 6 overs - pinch hitters to go for it
After that babar and Riz can do what they do best.
Some lusty blows at the end - this can be done by anyone. We’ve even seen Dahani and Naseem do this.
Instead of centring everything on not disturbing the “one thing that is working” look at everything.
Sherazkhalid
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7 game series was a good chance to give both Baber and Rizwan 2 games off each, though not same ones. This would have exposed more players, but we gave Rizwan one off because he was not fit and knew we can afford to lose a game. I mean these guys cannot even think of something so basic. This was to test your bench and we had Baber/Rizwan probably play 50% of overs and expose ppl looking to cement their place to chase 200 for series win.
Sherazkhalid
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Well if only we have someone with brains in team or team management.
Colorblind Genius
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The bold part above.
This is what we may need and this may actually work for us.
Gots to take Australian grounds into the equation. This is a different ball game.
As posted in the other thread
Colorblind Genius
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In Australia, asking our middle order to score quick and hit boundaries, is actually CRIMINAL.
It’s like asking a donkey to read a book.
It’s like asking a donkey to read a book.
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Any improvement to this in the NZ Tri-series, so far?
Suleiman
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Watching Pakistan bat is watching a patient die a very slow and painful death.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A much-needed, loud and clear message to the middle-order batters to improve and start performing - with all-rounders Shadab Khan and Mohammad Nawaz coming ahead of them in the batting order <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PAKvNZ?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PAKvNZ</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1578675850782081024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 8, 2022</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hope you enjoyed the intent today. We are working hard on correcting our mistakes and planning ahead for the world cup. Keep supporting Pakistan. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PakistanZindabad?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PakistanZindabad</a> <a href="https://t.co/ypw8xjqe4g">pic.twitter.com/ypw8xjqe4g</a></p>— Shadab Khan (@76Shadabkhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/76Shadabkhan/status/1578693394586402816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 8, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
jnaveen1980
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It seems like he batted this way just to answer this thread 
Savak
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We allowed the guy to bowl his ten overs for 31 runs. He was not doing anything extra ordinary, he was just bowling wicket to wicket. Not a single batsman dared to use his feet to bash him out of the ground, the only batsman who used his feet i.e. Saud did it indecisively where he wasn't sure whether to just loft the ball or play an aggressive attacking shot. If we had scored 55-60 runs of his 10 overs, we would have crossed 300.
There are too many players in the team who are playing for themselves instead of the team. If only our team management could adopt the Eoin Morgan approach i.e. i want you to figure out how you will hit atleast one boundary every over, how you do that is up to you but if you can't do it, you will have no place in my team.
There are too many players in the team who are playing for themselves instead of the team. If only our team management could adopt the Eoin Morgan approach i.e. i want you to figure out how you will hit atleast one boundary every over, how you do that is up to you but if you can't do it, you will have no place in my team.
FearlessRoar
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When will this intent element be installed in our players?
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99 dot balls in first 26 overs... What to say here.... SPEECHLESS
Asif321
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Saud with fifty
pakistani pride
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Biggest useless is that Babar and Rizwan are always tuk tukking.
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ask_analyse_act
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and more than half of it from the Kaptaan himself...
Savak
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Intent without skill and talent is pointless. There is a reason why these players after scoring their selfish slow 50's perish immediately afterwards playing attacking shots.
So, are you saying is it lack of skill/talent or is it selfishness?
Savak
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All of it
Bhaijaan
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The only batter who played with intent today was King Babar.
Credit where it’s due
Credit where it’s due
pakistani pride
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2005
- Runs
- 18,433
LOL a coupe of 4s is all he has. Dott ball king.The only batter who played with intent today was King Babar.
Credit where it’s due
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 65,901
- Post of the Week
- 1
Bhai he got out playing at a high rate. Kabhi to baksh do nanhi jaan ko
