Lessons from England's loss to Pakistan in ICC World Cup 2019

[Mamoon]

Isnt that obvious that when 5/6 players of one underperform that they loose?

You forgot the fact that they had 2 centurians.

Credit needs to be given when due and Pakistan played well to win the match.

It does not make Pakistan a better team than England but in sport you enjoy even your weaker team wins against a stronger team. Otherwise there is no point in following your team if it is not favourite.

If Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Stokes and Archer fail and the opposition plays very well which Pakistan did, England will lose 9/10 times, no matter how well Root and Buttler perform.

The problem is with people blaming England for being cocky and taking Pakistan lightly even though it is based on nothing. I suppose it is the psyche of your general Pakistani supporter - every success, which is usually rare, comes with a lot of rhetoric because we have convinced ourselves that we have this special ability to defy odds even though history doesn't back this claim.

 

[Mamoon]

I have to say I was amused to find a few posters calling him overrated and thought he got exposed after one bad performance.

The anti-English sentiment on this has always been strong. Almost every English player has been dubbed overrated at some point. Archer is fantastic and he will be a leading player in all formats very soon.

 

[gazza619]

If Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Stokes and Archer fail and the opposition plays very well which Pakistan did, England will lose 9/10 times, no matter how well Root and Buttler perform.

The problem is with people blaming England for being cocky and taking Pakistan lightly even though it is based on nothing. I suppose it is the psyche of your general Pakistani supporter - every success, which is usually rare, comes with a lot of rhetoric because we have convinced ourselves that we have this special ability to defy odds even though history doesn't back this claim.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48295945
If this isn't cocky I dont know what is.

England were cocky and overconfident.

Pakistan is not Nepal that you can just walk into a WC game and score 500.

 

[topspin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48295945
If this isn't cocky I dont know what is.

England were cocky and overconfident.

Pakistan is not Nepal that you can just walk into a WC game and score 500.

This was said this in response to the question asked by the BBC Sport reporter, who was actually the one who brought up the 500 figure.

Wood's response was said in general context, in other words by no means did he imply England could accomplish this feat specifically against Pakistan either in the recently concluded ODI series or in the World Cup contest played two days ago.

 

[Sir-fraz]

England have never won a 50 over World Cup because they haven't been good enough. This is the first time ever that they have gone into a World Cup as favourites, and if they fall short, people will be justified in criticising them but it is too early now.

Since revamping their Limited Overs cricket, they have played two tournaments - they made a final and a semifinal. Even the legendary Australian team failed in three consecutive Champions Trophies, but no one remembers now because they won World Cups. We should wait and see how England ends this World Cup before calling them a soft team full of chokers.

I agree with what your saying in regard to england having bad teams before.

Yes this england team plays a fresh brand of all out attacking cricket. But that brand is only being played by their batsman.

To win a WC you need good bowlers. Englands bowlers are avg as they come. Each one avgs over 30.
Other then them captilizing on their batsmen scoring high scores. They are not that threatening. The batsmen have been bailing them out.

Once they get hit for a couple boundaries they lose their confidence quick. Just look at rashid in the last match.

The reason why they lost the match against pakistan is because they were suppose to thrash us. They just beat us 4-0. Pressure was on them to win, and they crumbled.

Pakistan fielding was just as bad. Yet england still lost.
I also think in the first match pakistan management read the pitch wrong thinking it was flat. And got bounced out.
Team has no plan b most of the time and play on confidence and stupidity.

When we lost the toss, all sarfaraz complained about was losing the toss. Game lost there.

This WC has something in it for the bowlers and batsman which is why pak will have a chance.

England will make it to the semis, but will lose there.

Sarfaraz needs to go regardless if we lose or win. Need new captain and management.

 

[topspin]

You could argue the Pakistan team is far more arrogant (in front of the mic, but meek on the field and socially) if you refer to the following statements by the current players in the side:

Babar: "I've reached no.1 in the T20I rankings without power hitting" - strongly indicating he doesn't need have the desire to improve his ball striking.

Sarfraz: "We know teams are scared of us" and "Perhaps India is scared of us"

Imam: "I am automatic selection"

 

[Anwar]

One big lesson is, when you win the toss decide according to the pitch and conditions.
Not just that you feel your side chases better.
Morgan didn't even consider that Pakistan can't chase very well.
If England batted first would of been a totally different game.

 

[James]

Time will tell if there’s anything to change for England.
But I think Morgan was typically astute when he pointed out that bowlers or batsmen can have an off day or be challenged by a better team on the day, but the fielding shouldn’t suffer, because that’s a defensive skill.
Having said that given England are such a red hot team there will be endless amounts of print and opposition camp analysis dedicated to whether there was an issue of nerves.
It’s the nature of sport, whenever David beats Goliath to consider if stage fright was at play.
On thing that is indisputable is that Faf has exposed something that every team will look to exploit.

What has “Faf” done that is “indisputable”? He is certainly the captain of a side that has played three / lost three, and will probably be knocked out of the tournament soon.

Can’t see much else that “Faf” has achieved over the last week - England scored 311 against South Africa which was clearly a strong score on that wicket as they won by 100+ runs.

 

[Mamoon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48295945
If this isn't cocky I dont know what is.

England were cocky and overconfident.

Pakistan is not Nepal that you can just walk into a WC game and score 500.

Firstly, he made this comment on 16th May, a day before the fourth ODI between England and Pakistan, so I am not sure what is the point of the “Pakistan is not Nepal that you can just walk into a WC game and score 500” statement.

He was asked by a journalist if England could break the 500 barrier, based on the fact that they scored 444 against Pakistan and 481 against Australia in the same venue.

He replied in the affirmative, and he did not imply that England were aiming to score 500 against Pakistan.

It was a general statement, and every English player as well as neutral observers would agree that at this point, England appears to be the most capable team of breaking the 500 barrier.

Think about it - if England really intended to score 500 against Pakistan, why would they opt to bowl first after winning the toss, both in the bilateral game and the World Cup?

England were 2-0 up in the series when Wood made that statement. If the arrogant English really wanted to break the 500 barrier, they could have had a real crack at it the next day after winning the toss, but they didn’t. So much for their “arrogance”.

If you want to know what real arrogance looks like, look no further than Sarfraz claiming prior to the Asia Cup that maybe India are afraid of playing us, or Hasan Ali claiming that he wants to take all 10 wickets against India.

As far as the statement that Pakistan is not Nepal and you cannot walk in and blast 500 against us is concerned, there is no need of showing misplaced arrogance and disrespecting Nepal.

Our bowling is rubbish and we are as likely as any team to concede 500 runs. Prior to the world record 444 in 2016, Pakistani fans were thumping their chests that no team can score 400+ against Pakistan because our so-called great bowling, and we saw how that turned out.

The likes of Morgan, Root and Buttler have actually been quite supportive of Pakistan, and have probably mentioned the Champions Trophy semifinal more often than some of the Pakistani players.

Even before the World Cup game, Morgan called Pakistan the best team in the world in the Champions Trophy and insisted that they were preparing for Pakistan’s best. Does this look like arrogance to you?

A lot of people seem quite desperate to make England look like an arrogant team that considers themselves unbeatable, and apart from twisting words and facts, they have no evidence to back that claim.

 

[Mamoon]

One big lesson is, when you win the toss decide according to the pitch and conditions.
Not just that you feel your side chases better.
Morgan didn't even consider that Pakistan can't chase very well.
If England batted first would of been a totally different game.

The worst thing England can do in this World Cup is to try and do things differently. Chasing is their strength and they should stick to it, and if your five key players underperform, you will lose more often than not regardless of whether you bat or bowl first.

Pakistan is not a great chasing team, but they almost chased 370 against England a few weeks back. Had Morgan batted first and lost, people would have criticized him for not sticking to what worked for his team and trying to do things differently because of overconfidence or whatever.

England needs to make sure that Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Stokes and Archer, i.e. five key players do not underperform collectively in the same match again.

 

[Anwar]

The worst thing England can do in this World Cup is to try and do things differently. Chasing is their strength and they should stick to it, and if your five key players underperform, you will lose more often than not regardless of whether you bat or bowl first.

Pakistan is not a great chasing team, but they almost chased 370 against England a few weeks back. Had Morgan batted first and lost, people would have criticized him for not sticking to what worked for his team and trying to do things differently because of overconfidence or whatever.

England needs to make sure that Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Stokes and Archer, i.e. five key players do not underperform collectively in the same match again.

But that wasn’t a World Cup game. And Pak batting was under big pressure after flopping against WI.

Similar mistake by SA vs Ind choosing bat 1st ignoring the conditions.

 

[Braveheart]

Advice for England:
When out, leave the field of play with dignity and leave the 'Checking of the Ball' to the expertise of the Umpire.
And please do not make 'Cryptic snake-like statements' during your post match interviews, as you may be facing the same opposition in a Semi or Final.

 

[Mamoon]

But that wasn’t a World Cup game. And Pak batting was under big pressure after flopping against WI.

Similar mistake by SA vs Ind choosing bat 1st ignoring the conditions.

If England try to do things differently because it is a World Cup, they will simply put themselves under more pressure.

They need to stick to what has worked for them in the last 4 years because it will give them their best chance of going all the way.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

What has “Faf” done that is “indisputable”? He is certainly the captain of a side that has played three / lost three, and will probably be knocked out of the tournament soon.

Can’t see much else that “Faf” has achieved over the last week - England scored 311 against South Africa which was clearly a strong score on that wicket as they won by 100+ runs.

Introducing wrist spin upfront for English openers? Roy and bairstow are much more comfortable against pace than spin. Sarfraz simply copied that and brought Shadab to open.

 

[Pete Rose]

What has “Faf” done that is “indisputable”? He is certainly the captain of a side that has played three / lost three, and will probably be knocked out of the tournament soon.

Can’t see much else that “Faf” has achieved over the last week - England scored 311 against South Africa which was clearly a strong score on that wicket as they won by 100+ runs.

Why be willfully obtuse: he opened with legspinner and broke a dominant opening partnership and Pakistan borrowed with pride the same tactic. More teams will do the same. That’s not a particularly controversial conclusion

 

[Afhan Ali]

Some people are talking about England bowling, yes they bowl poorly against us but England bowling unit is quite good, they bowled out SA on 207 which is very good bowling performance

 

[MRSN]

"England lost because they were overconfident"

"You can never underestimate Pakistan"

etc. etc.

This is exactly the type of arrogance that has not helped Pakistan cricket in the past and will not help Pakistan cricket in the future. No team can lose against Pakistan because well, they played poorly.

It is either because of the we are unpredictable and cornered tigers rubbish, or because the other team underestimated us.

England lost because five key players underperformed, and they have to make sure that they don't collectively underperform again in the same match. It is has nothing to do with Pakistan.

Agree with you on this no doubt. Things like these make us an associate level team and remind me how BD fans used to cherish on win against big team or in big tournaments.

 

[Pakpak]

What has “Faf” done that is “indisputable”? He is certainly the captain of a side that has played three / lost three, and will probably be knocked out of the tournament soon.

Can’t see much else that “Faf” has achieved over the last week - England scored 311 against South Africa which was clearly a strong score on that wicket as they won by 100+ runs.

He's given a method of breaking up an opening partnership that has averaged 99 in the last year.

 

[MRSN]

If England try to do things differently because it is a World Cup, they will simply put themselves under more pressure.

They need to stick to what has worked for them in the last 4 years because it will give them their best chance of going all the way.

Pressure will be immense on England. If there was no prrssure England would have cruised to an easy win on Tuesday. No doubt England has been a top team since 2015 but can they handle the pressure of the crunch wc moments? We all know how important that is because SA have been very solid on paper side in last few wc yet they couldn't handle the pressure of thos big games.

 

[Mamoon]

Pressure will be immense on England. If there was no prrssure England would have cruised to an easy win on Tuesday. No doubt England has been a top team since 2015 but can they handle the pressure of the crunch wc moments? We all know how important that is because SA have been very solid on paper side in last few wc yet they couldn't handle the pressure of thos big games.

There is always pressure in a World Cup, and especially on teams that have been touted as favourites. However, it is important not to create your own pressure by trying to do things differently because it is a World Cup.

England's best chance of winning this World Cup is to treat it like an extension of the bilateral series that they have played in England since 2015. They have pummelled every team at home, and they need to continue what is working for them.

It doesn't guarantee that they will go all the way, but it gives them a better chance that forcefully tinkering with the playing XI, altering their playing style and creating a mental block by hesitating to chase because historically, large totals have not been chased frequently in World Cups.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

KP in post match talk : It's ok ENG can have hiccups doesn;t matter. Both Pak and SL will not qualify for semis so a loss against them does not matter.

Interviewer : Do you think this loss will impact your chances for semi qualification?
Morgan : No. Not yet all. We have 3 more games.