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Liberal Democrats manifesto

Robert

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Broadly speaking, it looks like Labour-lite in terms of NHS, social care and education funding. Probably more realistic and affordable.

The commitment to purchase three Dreadnought-class SLBM systems instead of four is interesting.....
 
They plan to raise £1billion through the legalisation of cannabis. If they make it into coalition again, who knows!
 
I did not like the Brexit referendum re-run that Farron keeps on talking about. Article 50 has been triggered no point in looking back
 
what are they key national issues in UK politics from election to election.

For eg in US in the past 15 years they generally are: Gun control, Immigration, Tax reform, Economy (when its in dumps), Islamic terrorism..

And similarly in Pak they generally are: Terrorism, Corruption. Economy, Afghanistan/India sometimes

what are 3-4 hot button UK issues in every election in last 20 years?
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and rest
 
what are they key national issues in UK politics from election to election.

For eg in US in the past 15 years they generally are: Gun control, Immigration, Tax reform, Economy (when its in dumps), Islamic terrorism..

And similarly in Pak they generally are: Terrorism, Corruption. Economy, Afghanistan/India sometimes

what are 3-4 hot button UK issues in every election in last 20 years?
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and rest

The economy, tax and spend, healthcare and immigration.

This year there's the added element of Brexit.
 
The economy, tax and spend, healthcare and immigration.



This year there's the added element of Brexit.


Majority young doctors, pharmacists, paramedical staff sides with Corbyn ? (Trends/Vibes)


What's your take ?


Would you be happy if BREXIT is un-done ? Is it realistic ? Will it keep UK united as a Country ?
 
The economy, tax and spend, healthcare and immigration.

This year there's the added element of Brexit.

Agree with this, and Social Care in particular seems to have become a huge issue in this one. Usually everyone talks about NHS public funding, but the specific elements are not even an afterthought.
 
They plan to raise £1billion through the legalisation of cannabis. If they make it into coalition again, who knows!

It is the classic sort of anti-authoritarian Liberal policy - freeing the people as much as possible. It's long past time that cannabis was sold legally, moving money from big crime to tax income and making making drug-influenced psychosis a medical problem not a criminal one.

But Farron says there will be no more Coalitions. Once bitten twice shy.

The Tories will require no Coalition anyway.
 
Majority young doctors, pharmacists, paramedical staff sides with Corbyn ? (Trends/Vibes)


What's your take ?
Yes that's about right. Conservative NHS reforms have been unpopular. NHS has been in meltdown in the last few years under the Conservatives with A&E and GP waiting times soaring. Cuts to community pharmacies is worrying and boneheaded, especially when pharmacists can step in to reduce the workload on GPs. There is a major shortage of doctors and nurses yet demand is increasing due to increasing elderly population.

Would you be happy if BREXIT is un-done ? Is it realistic ? Will it keep UK united as a Country ?

As for Brexit - I voted to Remain but as a democrat I accept the result of the referendum, there is no going back. But as I argued in another thread - we are in for a very rocky period.

By leaving the EU, the UK would no longer have any other trade agreements because its agreements with other countries are negotiated through the EU ! We are going to spend DECADES trying to renegotiate dozens of trade deals around the world with the likes of Colombia, South Africa, Mexico, Norway etc with companies facing uncertainty and dislocation. US and Japan will prioritise a trade deal with the EU first over the UK.

The UK lacks the capacity and expertise needed to do this swiftly. The UK hasn't negotiated a bilateral trade deal in 40 years - we've done it through the European Commission ! And FTAs have become increasingly complex over time. The UK is a substantially smaller market with less to offer to potential partners in negotiations than the EU, which alone contributes a quarter of world GDP.

The EU will NOT give us a sweetheart deal as they want to deter other countries from also leaving. Brexiteers have delusions of fantasy if they think we hold any leverage in this. Access to the single market is not as good as being part of the single market whereby we could help set the rules.

As for uniting the country, the referendum exposed the divides between young and old, suburbs vs inner cities, graduates vs non-graduates. There are concerns over whether the Union can stay intact. I think it will but the SNP are agitating for another independence referendum as Scotland voted Remain, and Northern Ireland (also voted Remain) could face a hard border with the Republic of Ireland (which is part of the EU) which would be catastrophic for the peace process.
 
Agree with this, and Social Care in particular seems to have become a huge issue in this one. Usually everyone talks about NHS public funding, but the specific elements are not even an afterthought.

Social care definitely has become a hot button issue. The BBC's Nick Triggle has done an excellent job explaining the Tories social care policy announced today in their manifesto, and it appears to be a complete eyewash !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39957879
 
I think it is, after climate change and Brexit, the most important issue for the British people.
 
I think it is, after climate change and Brexit, the most important issue for the British people.

Climate change?

I personally care about it a lot, but surely the top issues in Britain are Brexit, the economy, immigration, and the NHS including the Social Care system.
 
Climate change is the #1 challenge facing the whole of humanity.

Barring a major nuclear exchange.
 
what are they key national issues in UK politics from election to election.

For eg in US in the past 15 years they generally are: Gun control, Immigration, Tax reform, Economy (when its in dumps), Islamic terrorism..

And similarly in Pak they generally are: Terrorism, Corruption. Economy, Afghanistan/India sometimes

what are 3-4 hot button UK issues in every election in last 20 years?
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and rest

Besides the ones [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] just mentioned, Education and Housing are also major issues
 
Climate change?

I personally care about it a lot, but surely the top issues in Britain are Brexit, the economy, immigration, and the NHS including the Social Care system.

Most the people who do not have many miles left on the clock rather begin a crusade in favour of issues which do not affect their lives moving forward so will lean more towards everything which jeopardises the present/younger-people because it better to sacrifice as many humans we possibly can for the greater good, so forget about everything lads! just focus on climate change entirely
 
Most the people who do not have many miles left on the clock rather begin a crusade in favour of issues which do not affect their lives moving forward so will lean more towards everything which jeopardises the present/younger-people because it better to sacrifice as many humans we possibly can for the greater good, so forget about everything lads! just focus on climate change entirely

A strange statement. Climate change will not affect me. But it will affect my grandkids in their later lives as the deserts expand and the land masses shrink and crops fail and the starving billions march on Europe.

I do what little I can, working for a recycling and energy-from-waste firm, and campaigning for the Lib Dems who have the best environmental policy.

So you see I really have the future generations' best interests at heart.
 
A strange statement. Climate change will not affect me. But it will affect my grandkids in their later lives as the deserts expand and the land masses shrink and crops fail and the starving billions march on Europe.

I do what little I can, working for a recycling and energy-from-waste firm, and campaigning for the Lib Dems who have the best environmental policy.

So you see I really have the future generations' best interests at heart.

That explains your crusade, bet it gives you a sense of purpose to keep going:mv. Climate change is important but we need to get our house in order before we fix what's outside.
 
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That explains your crusade, bet it gives you a sense of purpose to keep going:mv. Climate change is important but we need to get our house in order before we fix what's outside.

Do both at the same time. Investment in green tech can create jobs, leading to growth and a rise in the tax base for social programmes.
 
Climate change is the #1 challenge facing the whole of humanity.

Barring a major nuclear exchange.

True again.

What I'm trying to get across though is that the majority of Britons do sort of care about climate change, but their human nature betrays them, and so elections are always fought on ultra-short-term gain around economic, healthcare and immigration factors.
 
Anyway. On the OP. In my opinion the Dems have got it wrong for the second time in a row.

They bombed in 2015 because they completed abandoned any sense of their own politics out of a greed to go into coalition again with anyone or anything, seeing themselves as the kingmakers but in the end they were the paupers. The final dire attempt to cling onto power by Nicky Clegg, who had already aged two generations during five years of government, failed miserably [although ironically he held onto his own treasured constituency seat, almost by accident!]

This time I think Farron has shot way wide of the mark. He began by completely undermining his own credibility for the sake of his personal religious beliefs (over homosexuality), and by the time he had lied his way to a feeble apology the damage had already been done - honestly, Liberal voters in Britain are probably the least homophobic people in the Universe, and Twitter was awash with their rightful disgust at Tim's question avoidance.

Then the manifesto was released, and the accompanying rhetoric begun. Farron is completely going after the young person vote (18-21). Most of these cretins will not turn up to the polling stations on the day - I say this as a grown man who was once an 18-21 year old and, therefore, also a cretin.

Additionally the 2017 Liberals might just possibly have earned the dubious title of being the first pro-democratic moderate political party in history to directly oppose the result of a democratic country-wide referendum. This really does not appeal to anyone. Most left-leaning Remainers will just go for Corbyn.

The people spoke - Tim ignored them. He is going to get absolutely destroyed. 2 of the 8 seats (in Leeds & Sheffield) will fall easily to Jezza; Labour remains top polling in Londom; meanwhile the Tories are surging in Scotland, Wales and the South-West; where does that leave the Liberal Democrats...? Will they be beaten into an already crap fourth place by the Greens?
 
Farron's speech was hardly inspiring. He basically said look guys the Tories are definitely going to win and we will be a less sh!t opposition than Labour. So vote for us!
 
True again.

What I'm trying to get across though is that the majority of Britons do sort of care about climate change, but their human nature betrays them, and so elections are always fought on ultra-short-term gain around economic, healthcare and immigration factors.

Fair enough.

Anyway. On the OP. In my opinion the Dems have got it wrong for the second time in a row.

They bombed in 2015 because they completed abandoned any sense of their own politics out of a greed to go into coalition again with anyone or anything, seeing themselves as the kingmakers but in the end they were the paupers. The final dire attempt to cling onto power by Nicky Clegg, who had already aged two generations during five years of government, failed miserably [although ironically he held onto his own treasured constituency seat, almost by accident!]

They got some Liberal legislation through - the triple lock, gay marriage, tax cuts for the poorest, environmental legislation, the first affordable house-building in thirty years. They also nixxed some authoritarian Tory ideas such as the snooper's charter

There is however a limit to what you can do when you are outnumbered five to one.

This time I think Farron has shot way wide of the mark. He began by completely undermining his own credibility for the sake of his personal religious beliefs (over homosexuality), and by the time he had lied his way to a feeble apology the damage had already been done - honestly, Liberal voters in Britain are probably the least homophobic people in the Universe, and Twitter was awash with their rightful disgust at Tim's question avoidance.

I know a number of gay LD activists. They did not turn on Farron - they accept that this issue is problematic for someone of deep religious faith. But they also point out that Farron voted for gay marriage five times. I judge people by what they do.


Then the manifesto was released, and the accompanying rhetoric begun. Farron is completely going after the young person vote (18-21). Most of these cretins will not turn up to the polling stations on the day - I say this as a grown man who was once an 18-21 year old and, therefore, also a cretin.

Additionally the 2017 Liberals might just possibly have earned the dubious title of being the first pro-democratic moderate political party in history to directly oppose the result of a democratic country-wide referendum. This really does not appeal to anyone. Most left-leaning Remainers will just go for Corbyn.
About 25% of Britons are hardcore Remainers. If anything Farron's position is too nuanced - he should have said We Will Reverse Brexit. That would translate into more seats in the Commons.

The people spoke - Tim ignored them. He is going to get absolutely destroyed. 2 of the 8 seats (in Leeds & Sheffield) will fall easily to Jezza; Labour remains top polling in Londom; meanwhile the Tories are surging in Scotland, Wales and the South-West; where does that leave the Liberal Democrats...? Will they be beaten into an already crap fourth place by the Greens?

Third place, they are above UKIP in England and Wales.

I think Sir Vince has a good chance of getting his seat back. Cornwall is problematic, because - turkeys voting for Christmas - it voted Leave, felling the EU money tree which has kept it afloat. But they should get Truro and Falmouth back - the Duchy capital and the university town, which voted Remain.

The problem, I think, is Farron. He's a lightweight in a party with no heavyweights who are still MPs. Clegg is fighting for his career, Vince is trying to get his seat back, Danny Alexander is making his fortune in Singapore, David Laws is at a policy thinktank. Perhaps the strategy now would be to hang on until another Ashdown or Clegg - someone with a bit of gravitas, with some charisma emerges. They were down to four MPs in the 1960s and came back. Liberalism is hard to kill.
 
The Lib Dems are still polling pathetically low in the opinion polls. They are the only national anti Brexit party yet they could actually lose seats next week lol. Oh dear.

So much for the Lib Dem surge that was promised after they won one of the by-elections in London.

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN18S5TL

Sky's poll of voting intentions shows Lib Dems are set for only 14% of the Remain vote.
 
Nick Clegg knew how to impress an audience. Hard to believe that his Lib Dems had 60 seats and formed a government. What a miniscule entity they have become since - only took a few years.
 
Nick Clegg knew how to impress an audience. Hard to believe that his Lib Dems had 60 seats and formed a government. What a miniscule entity they have become since - only took a few years.

The Liberals are thinkers and we live in a post-truth, post-reason political environment where people go with their guts not their heads. The #libdemfightback has stalled. I hoped for thirty MPs, but twelve to fifteen would be welcome now.
 
Nick Clegg knew how to impress an audience. Hard to believe that his Lib Dems had 60 seats and formed a government. What a miniscule entity they have become since - only took a few years.

They shouldn't make false promises before chest pumping before us as intellectuals who are beyond listening to the British publics needs, laughable party really not the sharpest tools in the box; good riddance. Maybe those punch lines will get them a seat or two, good luck.
 
The trouble is that the brains trust all lost their seats in 2015 and went on to other things.

What we need is a Trudeau or Macron figure - an intellect with the common touch to explain complex issues in everyday language.
 
Oh and [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] - Clegg achieved half of his manifesto promises, which is pretty good going given that he had 1/5 of the seats in government and therefore limited influence. But the LDs punched above their weight in Coalition and can be justly proud of that.

Sadly so many of the people boil it all down to emotional arguments. "But you got into bed with the Tories". As the last truly great Liberal Lloyd George pointed out - the British do not love a Coalition.
 
You get a bonus and a sizeable chunk is taken from it.

Thank you LD’s and their support for the 9k a year for tuition fees.
 
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