Losses in 2018 Asia Cup: A blessing in disguise considering the bigger scheme of things?

[Titan24]

Yes before criticizing hear me out first.

Reality is every team goes into a tournament to win it and Pakistan's performance was the worst among all the teams in terms of playing upto the potential. Even Hong Kong's established really big opening stand against India and played out of their skin.

But, other reality is Asia Cup is a tournument which holds no importance in world cricket and is not something team prepare for two years earlier so that they can win it. Even the world's best batsman Virat Kohli opted out of it so that he can rest for more important things coming up.

Again nothing to take away from any team who is in the final or played well but above paragraph is also a reality.

So how is it a blessing in disguise? We know the Asian cricket team cultures where a win hides everything and everyone in the management and selection relaxes down when a team performs well.

Indian team has been a top side for quite sometime in terms of consistency and they have arguably the best top 3 with closest competitor being England's top 3. But in this Indian team, it is the weakest middle order I have seen play for India since I started watching cricket. A past shadow of Dhoni, a Dinesh Karthik who is almost at the end of his career with nothing to flaunt and pretty mediocre avg or anything, a pretty mediocre Rayddu who has SR in 70s etc.

Kohli will come in but after him the batting looks really thin and these few wins and reaching the finals might mask that to an extent. Ideally Shubman Gill and Pant should have been developed in the last year or so. This is something which is gonna trouble India big time in the world cup next year.

For Bangladesh, their top order except Tamim is pretty weak and they dont have any quality all rounder (Ideally pace bowling all rounder) except Shakib. Ideally they would need a pace bowling all rounder in Eng other wise the tail becomes too long.

Srilanka is lacking in every department and needs big sorting out.

Pakistan has not reached the final, they might have if someone have clicked but that wouldnt have eliminated the issues in the team and would just have masked them.

This exit from asia cup would make team management and selection think about certain tactics and selections which they never would have if we would have gone to the final.

There is some hard work to be done to eliminate the issues of Pakistani team and this exit is a blessing in disguise and would make the people at the helm of affairs to notice this and realize what is lacking.

Change in mindset, approach and attitude in the need of the hour and middle order requires strengthening. Ideally these so called all rounders should have been developed against the Zimb series by playing them up the order but now its too late I guess. However, there are still certain things which can be done to improve this scenario.

Again I would say the team has potential, just needs proper selection, planning and right approach.

 

[kuskash]

Blessing in disguise # 23456790.

Watch CT 17 final highlights and have a sound sleep.

 

[navin]

blessing in disguise

the most abused phrase in the history of pakpassion

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Interesting idea... Results will show themselves in the upcoming series'.

 

[Shandarchowka]

Maybe yes. This may well be the kick in the butt our players deary needed.

 

[TeamPak95]

Whether the Asia Cup holds importance or not doesn't excuse Pakistan for playing the way they did. Regardless of how much preparation is put towards a tournament, significant or insignificant, the fact is that Pakistan were the heavy-weight favourites and they messed up big time, so no excuses there.

I do agree, however, that this is a blessing in disguise and the way I see it is that Pakistan will put up better performances against the good teams that they are going to play consistently in the near future because they'll get used to playing against that high skill level as each game goes on (*and cue comments of 'Yeah, they'll get used to consistently LOSING to teams of higher skill level'). Post CT it's been consistent minnow bashing, and then being blown out by New Zealand, then more minnow bashing, then being blown out by India along with dealing with feisty opponents in Afghanistan and Bangladesh. Pakistan go from facing teams of low skill-level to teams with much, much higher skill level and therefore get overwhelmed by the better teams. I think we'll see better results in the near future with consistent games vs better teams.

 

[MMHS]

Yes before criticizing hear me out first.

Reality is every team goes into a tournament to win it and Pakistan's performance was the worst among all the teams in terms of playing upto the potential. Even Hong Kong's established really big opening stand against India and played out of their skin.

But, other reality is Asia Cup is a tournument which holds no importance in world cricket and is not something team prepare for two years earlier so that they can win it. Even the world's best batsman Virat Kohli opted out of it so that he can rest for more important things coming up.

Again nothing to take away from any team who is in the final or played well but above paragraph is also a reality.

So how is it a blessing in disguise? We know the Asian cricket team cultures where a win hides everything and everyone in the management and selection relaxes down when a team performs well.

Indian team has been a top side for quite sometime in terms of consistency and they have arguably the best top 3 with closest competitor being England's top 3. But in this Indian team, it is the weakest middle order I have seen play for India since I started watching cricket. A past shadow of Dhoni, a Dinesh Karthik who is almost at the end of his career with nothing to flaunt and pretty mediocre avg or anything, a pretty mediocre Rayddu who has SR in 70s etc.

Kohli will come in but after him the batting looks really thin and these few wins and reaching the finals might mask that to an extent. Ideally Shubman Gill and Pant should have been developed in the last year or so. This is something which is gonna trouble India big time in the world cup next year.

For Bangladesh, their top order except Tamim is pretty weak and they dont have any quality all rounder (Ideally pace bowling all rounder) except Shakib. Ideally they would need a pace bowling all rounder in Eng other wise the tail becomes too long.

Srilanka is lacking in every department and needs big sorting out.

Pakistan has not reached the final, they might have if someone have clicked but that wouldnt have eliminated the issues in the team and would just have masked them.

This exit from asia cup would make team management and selection think about certain tactics and selections which they never would have if we would have gone to the final.

There is some hard work to be done to eliminate the issues of Pakistani team and this exit is a blessing in disguise and would make the people at the helm of affairs to notice this and realize what is lacking.

Change in mindset, approach and attitude in the need of the hour and middle order requires strengthening. Ideally these so called all rounders should have been developed against the Zimb series by playing them up the order but now its too late I guess. However, there are still certain things which can be done to improve this scenario.

Again I would say the team has potential, just needs proper selection, planning and right approach.

Nice write up - enjoyed reading, From PAK's POV, it's the perfect script.

But, I am a bit wrong headed guy - always somehow gets confused. Here in your nice post as well, I have one question regarding your 2nd para. In last 12 months, Safraz's PAK's record in ODI against any team ranked above 8 in LLLLLLLL .... that's 8-0. And, I must say, those 8 games were not against 4-4 split between top 2 - it's 5 (nil) against 4th/5th ranked team, 2 (nil) against No. 2 & 1 (nil) against a minnow, some how at No. 7. May be, by the potential comment, you are telling that PAK's true potential can be seen against ZIM reserves and the under potentiality can be seen when they play against any team above 8th.

 

[Ahmed216]

There's simply not enough quality in this side. A captain who doesnt perform and puts pressure on other guys in the field with terrible behaviour.They have stopped playing specialst spinners in UAE which is ununderstandable. Stop playing bits and pieces like Asif Shadab Nawaz Faheem Sarfaraz and i am sure things will improve.

 

[gazza619]

There's simply not enough quality in this side. A captain who doesnt perform and puts pressure on other guys in the field with terrible behaviour.They have stopped playing specialst spinners in UAE which is ununderstandable. Stop playing bits and pieces like Asif Shadab Nawaz Faheem Sarfaraz and i am sure things will improve.

Shadab and Faheem are decent al rounders who are out of form. What we need is good consistent top 4 batsmen and a captain who is not a burden on the team.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Why do our blessings always come in disguise?

 

[AFM]

Yes. Getting thrashed twice by an Indian team with no Kohli, losing to a Bangladesh side with no Tamim and Shakib and almost losing to Afghanistan is indeed a blessing

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Yes, Malik will hopefully decide to prolong his ODI career after seeing how this side can’t manage without him!

 

[Ahmed216]

Shadab and Faheem are decent al rounders who are out of form. What we need is good consistent top 4 batsmen and a captain who is not a burden on the team.

They cant bat. Shadab has limitation as he cant hit big batting at no.7. Nd i dont remember faheem scoring more than 25 so far in internationals. Mediocrity can only win u games against minnows

 

[Pakhs]

Nice write up - enjoyed reading, From PAK's POV, it's the perfect script.

But, I am a bit wrong headed guy - always somehow gets confused. Here in your nice post as well, I have one question regarding your 2nd para. In last 12 months, Safraz's PAK's record in ODI against any team ranked above 8 in LLLLLLLL .... that's 8-0. And, I must say, those 8 games were not against 4-4 split between top 2 - it's 5 (nil) against 4th/5th ranked team, 2 (nil) against No. 2 & 1 (nil) against a minnow, some how at No. 7. May be, by the potential comment, you are telling that PAK's true potential can be seen against ZIM reserves and the under potentiality can be seen when they play against any team above 8th.

What you mentioned 8-0 is correct and this is why the thrashing they got in this tournament was much needed.

 

[the_outsider]

There is this false sense among Pakistani fans that losses make you better team.

Lol no. Losses don't make you better. Progress makes you better. And by the looks of it, this PAK team is not progressing, it's regressing.

 

[the_outsider]

Shadab and Faheem are decent al rounders who are out of form. What we need is good consistent top 4 batsmen and a captain who is not a burden on the team.

Shadab is not an all-rounder. You should have realised this by now.

 

[topspin]

Yes there is the potential for this turning out to be a blessing in disguise if they get rid of Sarfraz forever and bring back Imad + Sharjeel.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

There is this false sense among Pakistani fans that losses make you better team.

Lol no. Losses don't make you better. Progress makes you better. And by the looks of it, this PAK team is not progressing, it's regressing.

You can’t really regress any further, especially after losing to Bangladesh! We’ve hit rock bottom, and our only way is up. If you remember England had a poor World Cup campaign and also lost to Bangladesh, 3 years on and they’re the best ODI team in the world.

 

[barah_admi]

It can only be a blessing if the mistakes made are amended. This same group of players were probably the 2nd best fielding side in the format for almost 18 months and yet dropped countless catches, why? The bowling unit had the best ODI bowlers of the last 18 months (Ali), an experienced head (Amir) and the best young talent (Shadab), they all under performed, why? The most striking new opening batsman in world cricket looked absent, why? Junaid Khan did not play from the start, why?

If these, and other questions are satisfactorily answered, then the side can move on.

In my opinion and it is purely opinion, however it is grounded in reality of watching cricket for decades, there is a problem behind the scenes. The players looked physically ready but psychologically something was/is wrong.

Rixon who was credited with helping to improve Pak's fielding left a short time before the Asia Cup, criticising the PCB and their lack of professionalism, incorrect or absent payments...in fact, he was very scathing in that. HOw much of that rubbed off on the players? On Arthur? How did the head coach, noty known for his diplomacy, react?

The team, which has looked so unified for so long this time looked lost, confused and much like Pakistan of the 90s. The PCB has to look inward and improve or the most promising generation of cricketers for 20+ years will disappear.

 

[Rahul1]

How many blessings in disguise do you guys have?

 

[Shafi]

May be but we need an intelligent selector to make use of this.
Don't need to bring old TTFs and get rid of Babar from ODI because he crumble under pressure like his cousins against any good side. Imam at least work hard and perform his best. He could have save the team last night if we had another decent batsman.
Asif is useless in ODI and suit only T20 for quick fire 25-30.
Haris is finished!!!
Sarfraz needs to go.
Sadab needs to improve his bowling and batting.
Nawaz is useless.
Fahim is good for nothing.
Shiwari is good for weaker opposition and bowling pitch.
Amir needs to improve massive in order to play in LOI.
Hasan Ali needs to be quit from test.
Fakhar is another minnow basher, can only score in batting pitch and n pressure match. Even Afridi was a better batsman than him in pressure match. I am ok with his selection for scoring fast.

Too many holes need to filled up but not have enough time for 2019 World Cup.

 

[Pakhs]

It can only be a blessing if the mistakes made are amended. This same group of players were probably the 2nd best fielding side in the format for almost 18 months and yet dropped countless catches, why? The bowling unit had the best ODI bowlers of the last 18 months (Ali), an experienced head (Amir) and the best young talent (Shadab), they all under performed, why? The most striking new opening batsman in world cricket looked absent, why? Junaid Khan did not play from the start, why?

If these, and other questions are satisfactorily answered, then the side can move on.

In my opinion and it is purely opinion, however it is grounded in reality of watching cricket for decades, there is a problem behind the scenes. The players looked physically ready but psychologically something was/is wrong.

Rixon who was credited with helping to improve Pak's fielding left a short time before the Asia Cup, criticising the PCB and their lack of professionalism, incorrect or absent payments...in fact, he was very scathing in that. HOw much of that rubbed off on the players? On Arthur? How did the head coach, noty known for his diplomacy, react?

The team, which has looked so unified for so long this time looked lost, confused and much like Pakistan of the 90s. The PCB has to look inward and improve or the most promising generation of cricketers for 20+ years will disappear.

Its the team they played which cost them dearly, Hafeez is a really good player specially with his bowling. What is Nawaz good at? How is Hasan Ali better than Amir? is Asif Ali better than Harris Sohail? Why was the only seam all rounder not played? Hasan Ali should have been rested and Fahim played as 3rd fast bowler, Playing out and out 3 fast bowler weakens the batting and no team does that. So its the combination which handicapped the team and then they didnt play well.

 

[bluevision]

I feel your CT17 win was a curse in disguise if you analyze from a neutral point of view.

 

[Pakhs]

I feel your CT17 win was a curse in disguise if you analyze from a neutral point of view.

Bro dont be this stupid you would take CT17 win even if you lose two Asia cups. Pakistan have been 8-0 since CT against any decent sides but still I would take CT win over these forgettable matches. More to the point this side is not playing very well and they must improve soon to have any chance going forward so far they have lost few matches but nothing is lost.

 

[Titan24]

Nice write up - enjoyed reading, From PAK's POV, it's the perfect script.

But, I am a bit wrong headed guy - always somehow gets confused. Here in your nice post as well, I have one question regarding your 2nd para. In last 12 months, Safraz's PAK's record in ODI against any team ranked above 8 in LLLLLLLL .... that's 8-0. And, I must say, those 8 games were not against 4-4 split between top 2 - it's 5 (nil) against 4th/5th ranked team, 2 (nil) against No. 2 & 1 (nil) against a minnow, some how at No. 7. May be, by the potential comment, you are telling that PAK's true potential can be seen against ZIM reserves and the under potentiality can be seen when they play against any team above 8th.

Yes you as yourself stated the fact that 5 out of that 7 matches were against one team who has humiliated every single subcontinental team in the last 4-5 years. Also who consider India a minnow? they are ranked no 2. And against Bng it was just one match so cant conclude much from that.

I havent made any comment on Sarfaraz’s caiptancy at all.

Also for potential, considering tou have been following cricket for long time, you do realize that this Pak team was even less experienced then the bng team. Guys are young and had their early bird success however still learning, other than Sarfaraz, Malik , Junaid (Amir as well but never played together) none has played even 50 matches. Babar I guess just played. No matter how much we try but there is no shortcut for international experience.

I m just saying for Pak this performance must have made their wrong tactics evident and for other teams reching the finals might mask the obvious deficiencies for their world cup preparations.

 

[Titan24]

There is this false sense among Pakistani fans that losses make you better team.

Lol no. Losses don't make you better. Progress makes you better. And by the looks of it, this PAK team is not progressing, it's regressing.

Never did I say losses make things better. I just said in Asian culture its only losses that make you think over for betterment while wins relaxes everyone in their seats

 

[Titan24]

How many blessings in disguise do you guys have?

Blessings only if we learn, India havent learnt abt their middle order problems after CT 17 final and recent Eng ODI series. Hopefully we can

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

oh another blessing in disguise.after every loss there's blessing in disguise waiting. Nice.They keep losing and blessing in disguise keep coming. This cycle will never end it seems

 

[Titan24]

For all the guys saying 8-0 against 8 above. 5-0 was against NZ, which subcontinental has last beaten them even in a single match in an ODI in their home for last 5 years?

Yes India outplayed us in both the matches but they are ranked no 2 for a reason while against Bang it was just one match.

Yes overall the performance was as poor as it can get, not bcz of the loses but bcz of the quality of cricket and tactics.

 

[Titan24]

oh another blessing in disguise.after every loss there's blessing in disguise waiting. Nice.They keep losing and blessing in disguise keep coming. This cycle will never end it seems

Every team looses, none is invincible in this era. We are ranked at 5 for a reason and that is we are inconsistent

 

[Hasan2K8]

I joined this site back in 2015 and when Pak lost ODI series to BD and I remember the blessing in disguise thing came out a lot of times.

 

[bluevision]

Bro dont be this stupid you would take CT17 win even if you lose two Asia cups. Pakistan have been 8-0 since CT against any decent sides but still I would take CT win over these forgettable matches. More to the point this side is not playing very well and they must improve soon to have any chance going forward so far they have lost few matches but nothing is lost.

Bro, even I would take a drawn English test series over CT win over these non-significant series. But your players, support stuff, the media and all experts were still in the bubble even after 1 year rather than strengthening the team further. The wins against lesser team added more layers to that bubble.

The point is that because of that CT win everyone got complacent and your long-term plan got derailed (to narrow down on a competent final XI for the world cup). Being a runner-up in CT 17 would have been more fruitful for the team in the long run Just saying. Hope you managed to get the right combo before WC.

I personally would not mind an embarrassing defeat in the Asia cup final if it helps us to get rid worthless middle order, a keeper who has passed his used by date and trundlers like Kaul, Undadkat, Thakur etc. PERMANENTLY.

 

[pillionrider]

Never did I say losses make things better. I just said in Asian culture its only losses that make you think over for betterment while wins relaxes everyone in their seats

Quite the contrary in my opinion.

It's in our subcontinental nature to rave, rant and froth when our teams get thrashed somewhere and then we turn up as willing fans during the next series. Time is the greatest healer in the subcontinent. It's in our politics, our sport and our daily life.

We had a popular ironic slogan in Bengaluru years back that went 'swalpa adjust madi' which was the city's consistent dharma. Basically, 'just adjust whatever happens' it translates to.

 

[Amjid Javed]

The Asia cup shambles is the wake up call we needed, with tough Series against Aussies, kiwis, S.A and England to come now is ideal time to get team selection right before world cup. The S.A and England series should be ideal prep conditions wise before we go into the world cup so we cant complain about been under cooked.

 

[BlackThunder]

Its not a blessing in disguise but a actual blessing with no strings attached.

 

[sam_ahm]

I think they've had many such blessings in disguise in the past 6-7 years. These blessings haven't been able to change much though except for CT17

 

[Pakhs]

Bro, even I would take a drawn English test series over CT win over these non-significant series. But your players, support stuff, the media and all experts were still in the bubble even after 1 year rather than strengthening the team further. The wins against lesser team added more layers to that bubble.

The point is that because of that CT win everyone got complacent and your long-term plan got derailed (to narrow down on a competent final XI for the world cup). Being a runner-up in CT 17 would have been more fruitful for the team in the long run Just saying. Hope you managed to get the right combo before WC.

I personally would not mind an embarrassing defeat in the Asia cup final if it helps us to get rid worthless middle order, a keeper who has passed his used by date and trundlers like Kaul, Undadkat, Thakur etc. PERMANENTLY.

Okay your point taken! That CT was won with a team that was not that great which was a real bonus for us Pakistan fans it was really a trophy stolen from India by Pakistan's excellent 3 games. Which really gave us 2 years to build a team and not feel too disappointed in losing as this current team was expected to win nothing. But this situation cant go on forever with accountability if they don't have a strong performance in the WC coming something will have to give.

 

[Pakhs]

I think they've had many such blessings in disguise in the past 6-7 years. These blessings haven't been able to change much though except for CT17

So quit a lot in that case? Lets face it even the gun teams are not always guaranteed to win these tournaments.

 

[sam_ahm]

So quit a lot in that case? Lets face it even the gun teams are not always guaranteed to win these tournaments.

They've had several embarassing losses... Like 5-0 whitewash against NZL was probably a blessing in dsiguise. Losing to SLN last yr at home was a blessing in disguise... Losing almost every match on Australia tour was a blessing in disguise... lacklusture performance in wc15 ws a blessing in disguise.

These are the recent ones... The list is endless

 

[Dingolfy]

Yes before criticizing hear me out first.

Reality is every team goes into a tournament to win it and Pakistan's performance was the worst among all the teams in terms of playing upto the potential. Even Hong Kong's established really big opening stand against India and played out of their skin.

But, other reality is Asia Cup is a tournument which holds no importance in world cricket and is not something team prepare for two years earlier so that they can win it. Even the world's best batsman Virat Kohli opted out of it so that he can rest for more important things coming up.

Again nothing to take away from any team who is in the final or played well but above paragraph is also a reality.

So how is it a blessing in disguise? We know the Asian cricket team cultures where a win hides everything and everyone in the management and selection relaxes down when a team performs well.

Indian team has been a top side for quite sometime in terms of consistency and they have arguably the best top 3 with closest competitor being England's top 3. But in this Indian team, it is the weakest middle order I have seen play for India since I started watching cricket. A past shadow of Dhoni, a Dinesh Karthik who is almost at the end of his career with nothing to flaunt and pretty mediocre avg or anything, a pretty mediocre Rayddu who has SR in 70s etc.

Kohli will come in but after him the batting looks really thin and these few wins and reaching the finals might mask that to an extent. Ideally Shubman Gill and Pant should have been developed in the last year or so. This is something which is gonna trouble India big time in the world cup next year.

For Bangladesh, their top order except Tamim is pretty weak and they dont have any quality all rounder (Ideally pace bowling all rounder) except Shakib. Ideally they would need a pace bowling all rounder in Eng other wise the tail becomes too long.

Srilanka is lacking in every department and needs big sorting out.

Pakistan has not reached the final, they might have if someone have clicked but that wouldnt have eliminated the issues in the team and would just have masked them.

This exit from asia cup would make team management and selection think about certain tactics and selections which they never would have if we would have gone to the final.

There is some hard work to be done to eliminate the issues of Pakistani team and this exit is a blessing in disguise and would make the people at the helm of affairs to notice this and realize what is lacking.

Change in mindset, approach and attitude in the need of the hour and middle order requires strengthening. Ideally these so called all rounders should have been developed against the Zimb series by playing them up the order but now its too late I guess. However, there are still certain things which can be done to improve this scenario.

Again I would say the team has potential, just needs proper selection, planning and right approach.

You were thrashed in England, Australia before CT.Wasnt that a blessing is disguise?
Unless you take methods to fix your structure, nothings gonna change.You will still get the mentally weak tuk-tuk batsmen and fielders with butter fingers.

 

[Pakhs]

They've had several embarassing losses... Like 5-0 whitewash against NZL was probably a blessing in dsiguise. Losing to SLN last yr at home was a blessing in disguise... Losing almost every match on Australia tour was a blessing in disguise... lacklusture performance in wc15 ws a blessing in disguise.

These are the recent ones... The list is endless

I dont want to bring other teams into this but same can be said of other teams too. Look reality is Pakistan have not had a good ODI side for a while and that CT win was a real bonus in the circumstances which at-least gives this team until WC to start producing regular results.

 

[Dingolfy]

You can’t really regress any further, especially after losing to Bangladesh! We’ve hit rock bottom, and our only way is up. If you remember England had a poor World Cup campaign and also lost to Bangladesh, 3 years on and they’re the best ODI team in the world.

England had a better structure to fall back on and to idnetify players groomed in that.You dont have that luxury.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I saw your reference to Indian players. Indian batsmen will easily adapt. Especially the talented ones. The learning curve won't be steep. You missed KL Rahul as well. Besides India was aware of these problems already. Even before CT. We were aware. Just check how many Indians were against CT squad. India's problem is just selection.Their bench strength is unquestionable. Pakistan's problem is beyond that. Sohaib is still Pakistan's lynch pin. It underlines Pakistan's lack of fresh talents. It is almost like lot of things have to go too perfect for them.Pakistan's traditional way of winning matches has been to reduce the opposition to subpar total and play conventionally. It has been pretty much the go to method for pakistan for more than a decade. That works more often than not. This was the case even when better batsmen were around. Pakistan has no known method to win matches . They purely rely on Fakhar Zaman to explode and Malik to finish. Otherwise they are gone.

 

[Titan24]

They've had several embarassing losses... Like 5-0 whitewash against NZL was probably a blessing in dsiguise. Losing to SLN last yr at home was a blessing in disguise... Losing almost every match on Australia tour was a blessing in disguise... lacklusture performance in wc15 ws a blessing in disguise.

These are the recent ones... The list is endless

Last Time India toured NZ they lost 4-0, I don't remember when was the last time a subcontinental team won an ODI in NZ.

Aus got whitewashed at home by Eng and there are many such events which are pretty regular now a days.

 

[Titan24]

I saw your reference to Indian players. Indian batsmen will easily adapt. Especially the talented ones. The learning curve won't be steep. You missed KL Rahul as well. Besides India was aware of these problems already. Even before CT. We were aware. Just check how many Indians were against CT squad. India's problem is just selection.Their bench strength is unquestionable. Pakistan's problem is beyond that. Sohaib is still Pakistan's lynch pin. It underlines Pakistan's lack of fresh talents. It is almost like lot of things have to go too perfect for them.Pakistan's traditional way of winning matches has been to reduce the opposition to subpar total and play conventionally. It has been pretty much the go to method for pakistan for more than a decade. That works more often than not. This was the case even when better batsmen were around. Pakistan has no known method to win matches . They purely rely on Fakhar Zaman to explode and Malik to finish. Otherwise they are gone.

KL Rahul isnt comfortable in 2 down as we have seen and definitely no other middle order has been established.

 

[jnaveen1980]

KL Rahul isnt comfortable in 2 down as we have seen and definitely no other middle order has been established.

There are abundant young talents waiting. Iyer, Gill, Pant, Krunal Pandya.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan has to unearth more magical bowlers so that they can go back to their own trusted working formula. Don't think Pakistan batsmen are in the same class as many of the world's top batsmen.

 

[sam_ahm]

So quit a lot in that case? Lets face it even the gun teams are not always guaranteed to win these tournaments.

Last Time India toured NZ they lost 4-0, I don't remember when was the last time a subcontinental team won an ODI in NZ.

Aus got whitewashed at home by Eng and there are many such events which are pretty regular now a days.

Ok, even at home (adopted home in this case) how is Pakistan's ODI record against the likes of Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, England?

 

[Pakhs]

Ok, even at home (adopted home in this case) how is Pakistan's ODI record against the likes of Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, England?

Look I dont want to defend Pakistan's poor Asia Cup where they didnt play well at all. But reality is that they haven't played well in UAE at all when it comes to ODIS every since they moved there. For some reason it doesn't suit them at all.

 

[Titan24]

First of all guys, this is the first time I have developed a thread like this about blessing in disguise and I generally don’t believe in such things.

However, considering the new players in the teams who had some pretty decent early bird success looked a bit D tracked. I only believe its a blessing bcz these so called stars will now realize that there is a long way to go and will remain grounded.

Lets face it, its human nature to be overwhelmed by the success especially when you are young, Shadab is 19, Hassan is 24, Babar 23, Shinwai 24, Amir is 26 and Fakhar while is 28 but is new to the game and etc had a lot of success in his young career. Its non professional but, understandable if they became complacent, so in regards to these players who are yet to play even 50 ODIs its my opinion that it might be a blessing in disguise.

 

[Titan24]

Ok, even at home (adopted home in this case) how is Pakistan's ODI record against the likes of Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, England?

Pretty poor and there is no denying that and that is why we are ranked 5.

 

[Titan24]

There are abundant young talents waiting. Iyer, Gill, Pant, Krunal Pandya.

Bro there is no denying of the talent but talent grooming is the next step which isnt taken and now world cup is months away

 

[Cric_lover4487]

Yes it is. Sometimes you need a kick on your backside to realize your shortcomings and take hard decisions. "Aane do series" debacle led to drafting of Rohit and Dhawan as regular LOI openers. Over the hill Sehwag and motormouth Gambhir were finally discarded. CT final debacle led to discarding of Ashwin and Jadeja from ODI setup and emergence of Kuldeep and Chahal. CT final was also final nail in the coffin of Yuvraj's ODI career but somehow Dhoni survived. Unfortunately, he will now be a passenger till WC19.

 

[Titan24]

Pakistan has to unearth more magical bowlers so that they can go back to their own trusted working formula. Don't think Pakistan batsmen are in the same class as many of the world's top batsmen.

With two new balls and lack of reverse swing there is only a limited things bowler can do now in ODIs.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Yes it is. Sometimes you need a kick on your backside to realize your shortcomings and take hard decisions. "Aane do series" debacle led to drafting of Rohit and Dhawan as regular LOI openers. Over the hill Sehwag and motormouth Gambhir were finally discarded. CT final debacle led to discarding of Ashwin and Jadeja from ODI setup and emergence of Kuldeep and Chahal. CT final was also final nail in the coffin of Yuvraj's ODI career but somehow Dhoni survived. Unfortunately, he will now be a passenger till WC19.

Dhoni is alwasy going to get a prefrential treatment which will contnue haunting india.

 

[Titan24]

Yes it is. Sometimes you need a kick on your backside to realize your shortcomings and take hard decisions. "Aane do series" debacle led to drafting of Rohit and Dhawan as regular LOI openers. Over the hill Sehwag and motormouth Gambhir were finally discarded. CT final debacle led to discarding of Ashwin and Jadeja from ODI setup and emergence of Kuldeep and Chahal. CT final was also final nail in the coffin of Yuvraj's ODI career but somehow Dhoni survived. Unfortunately, he will now be a passenger till WC19.

Exactly.

 

[Titan24]

Dhoni is alwasy going to get a prefrential treatment which will contnue haunting india.

Its his value behind the stumps and his guidance to spinners which is making it difficult for him to be replaced before world cup.

 

[Cric_lover4487]

With two new balls and lack of reverse swing there is only a limited things bowler can do now in ODIs.

I fail to understand why there is no right arm fast bowler in Pakistan right now. Hasan Ali is clearly complacent of his place in side. Also, what happened to Anwar Ali?. He used to swing ball like banana plus a handy lower order hitter. I expected him to replace Razzaq and cement his place in the side but somehow he didn't made it.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Why do our blessings always come in disguise?

It's PP

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

The Asia cup shambles is the wake up call we needed, with tough Series against Aussies, kiwis, S.A and England to come now is ideal time to get team selection right before world cup. The S.A and England series should be ideal prep conditions wise before we go into the world cup so we cant complain about been under cooked.

Aussie series won'tbe that tough as their team is in rebuilding phase. I don't rate their current ODI team above BD.

 

[sam_ahm]

So quit a lot in that case? Lets face it even the gun teams are not always guaranteed to win these tournaments.

I dont want to bring other teams into this but same can be said of other teams too. Look reality is Pakistan have not had a good ODI side for a while and that CT win was a real bonus in the circumstances which at-least gives this team until WC to start producing regular results.

Look I like pakistan cricket team, always been a fan because I loved the likes of wasim, inzi, waqar, etc.. but now you guys have fallen behind a lot.

I think you need mentally tough cricketers and players who have that toughness to take the game on no matter what the situation.

The current set just looks very feeble to me, I mean a Babar Azam can score 3 centuries on the trot but still doesn't look threatening the next game... Hell Inzamam, even an out of form Inzi, once he was at the crease we knew he can take the match by the scruff of its neck and win it singlehandedly. Same goes for someone like Wasim or Akhtar, the moment they are on you know they would do something but they won't meekly surrender.

Now everyone cannot be Inzi, Wasim, Anwar, Saqlain I understand that... But even a Abdul Razzak, Afridi, Ijaz Ahmed, Aamer Sohail, Moin Khan, Kamran Akmal for a good part of his career, Aaqib Javed, , ... They were very tough cricketers... May not be world beaters but guys who get the job done... You need those sort of cricketers.

A captain who is failing since last 15 months cannot inspire a team, a lead fast bowler who has taken 3 ODI wickets in last 15 months cannot inspire a team, you cannot drop sitters and still expect to win games... Pakistan needs to do something to build on the talent of these players, and make them mentally tough.

 

[Bhoot_Pret]

Heard that PCB has proposed a full series with Sri Lanka, West Indies, Zimbawe and some associate teams to get themselves a feel of being world beaters.

 

[barah_admi]

Its the team they played which cost them dearly, Hafeez is a really good player specially with his bowling. What is Nawaz good at? How is Hasan Ali better than Amir? is Asif Ali better than Harris Sohail? Why was the only seam all rounder not played? Hasan Ali should have been rested and Fahim played as 3rd fast bowler, Playing out and out 3 fast bowler weakens the batting and no team does that. So its the combination which handicapped the team and then they didnt play well.

Faheem played in the tournament, Amir got to play. My post was about the tournament as a whole and the problems that have arisen and how they may be solved. It is time for team management to start fixing things.

 

[Pakhs]

Faheem played in the tournament, Amir got to play. My post was about the tournament as a whole and the problems that have arisen and how they may be solved. It is time for team management to start fixing things.

Faheem played just the first game against India but they still played another 3 fast bowlers so 4 all together are we playing in Australia? First of all they must get the combination right for the right conditions and then we will see if they can play well.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Blessing in disguise # 23456790.

Watch CT 17 final highlights and have a sound sleep.

LOL. Best answer, we have heard it all before. These amateurs have been losing these games for decades now, it's a blessing in disguise only in that their lack of technique and mental weakness is exposed. The only bigger picture is that they are not very good players and the Pakistan team became second rate quite some time ago and will carry on being second rate until they can produce some high quality cricketers somehow.

 

[AMSS]

Never had a doubt pakistan were a blessed team.

 

[Pakhs]

Look I like pakistan cricket team, always been a fan because I loved the likes of wasim, inzi, waqar, etc.. but now you guys have fallen behind a lot.

I think you need mentally tough cricketers and players who have that toughness to take the game on no matter what the situation.

The current set just looks very feeble to me, I mean a Babar Azam can score 3 centuries on the trot but still doesn't look threatening the next game... Hell Inzamam, even an out of form Inzi, once he was at the crease we knew he can take the match by the scruff of its neck and win it singlehandedly. Same goes for someone like Wasim or Akhtar, the moment they are on you know they would do something but they won't meekly surrender.

Now everyone cannot be Inzi, Wasim, Anwar, Saqlain I understand that... But even a Abdul Razzak, Afridi, Ijaz Ahmed, Aamer Sohail, Moin Khan, Kamran Akmal for a good part of his career, Aaqib Javed, , ... They were very tough cricketers... May not be world beaters but guys who get the job done... You need those sort of cricketers.

A captain who is failing since last 15 months cannot inspire a team, a lead fast bowler who has taken 3 ODI wickets in last 15 months cannot inspire a team, you cannot drop sitters and still expect to win games... Pakistan needs to do something to build on the talent of these players, and make them mentally tough.

They need time, all good ODI sides are experienced with lots of game under their belts most of these current lot have not played a lot of game and what few they played were mostly against minnows which doesn't help at all.

 

[axis]

I seriously think Pakistan critics are having a field day and getting too much tied up with the negative attitude. I think a positive attitude and constructive outlook is the need of the hour.

 

[Titan24]

I fail to understand why there is no right arm fast bowler in Pakistan right now. Hasan Ali is clearly complacent of his place in side. Also, what happened to Anwar Ali?. He used to swing ball like banana plus a handy lower order hitter. I expected him to replace Razzaq and cement his place in the side but somehow he didn't made it.

Anwer Ali got injured at young age and then his action change didn't help him either. Is in good form in QEA trophy though.

There are some decent right arm fast bowlers coming through Muhammad Musa, Mohammad Hasnain, Ahmed bashir etc are just few examples. But there is no guarantee that they wont become complacent, I have no doubts that they wont be successful but maintaining the success is a bigger task.

Hassan Ali while has become complacent but will sure learn from this, atleast he carried on with his success for almost a year. Unlike some others, Mohammad Talha was one hell of a bowler, played against India as well in Asia cup and took couple of top order wickets. However, his career went downhill 3 months later but, I think selectors were too impatient as well.

Mohammad Abbas has a high chance to get selected for the next ODI series if he continues to impress in Tests in the coming series. He is a pretty skillful bowler with the new ball and has decent yorkers.

 

[Titan24]

LOL. Best answer, we have heard it all before. These amateurs have been losing these games for decades now, it's a blessing in disguise only in that their lack of technique and mental weakness is exposed. The only bigger picture is that they are not very good players and the Pakistan team became second rate quite some time ago and will carry on being second rate until they can produce some high quality cricketers somehow.

Refer to post 50 to understand how I think its different this time.

 

[Sadevdesai]

Let’s not make this loss Grapes Are Sour type of a thing .... we were beaten ..... fair and square !!! In time, this be a distance memory ..... let’s move on !!!!

 

[WengerOut]

Its his value behind the stumps and his guidance to spinners which is making it difficult for him to be replaced before world cup.

Even if it is true, although i believe it is clutching of last straw by thala fans, you need runs while batting. Can't keep on advising while batting

 

[munaf4u]

Its his value behind the stumps and his guidance to spinners which is making it difficult for him to be replaced before world cup.

Agree.

 

[Hasan123]

I have had enough of these so called blessings in disguise. Being humiliated by our rivals isn't a blessing . It's an embarrassment.

 

[Buffet]

Coach didn't play spinners against SL in test series in UAE, Pakistan got whitewashed.

Coach again didn't play spinners in Asia cup in UAE. Pakistan couldn't compete.

He is a clueless coach. Pakistan have won and may win in future, but not due to him. Pakistan will win despite him.

Yes, Pakistan doesn't have infrastructure and all that is fine, but you still put the best team and play. Not selecting spinners may have been justified if Pakistani pacers were in class of McGrath, Marshall, Wasim etc.

Captain is equally responsible for this. UAE is Pakistan's adopted home and still not getting this simple fact makes me speechless.

 

[Ab Fan]

There is nothing embarrassing in getting humiliated in an irrelevant tournament called Asia Cup.

Just show patience for one year and watch Pakistan lift the trophy on Lords in 2019 WC.

My visualization power says, "Pakistan will take it in '19 WC 8 years after India took it in '11 WC."

 

[kuskash]

There is nothing embarrassing in getting humiliated in an irrelevant tournament called Asia Cup.

Just show patience for one year and watch Pakistan lift the trophy on Lords in 2019 WC.

My visualization power says, "Pakistan will take it in '19 WC 8 years after India took it in '11 WC."

Pak is too strong for other teams in WC. I think Pak will win WC very easily.

 

[shokz1408]

The blessing in disguise thread pops up after most series and tournament losses. But there's no blessing in finding out your team is falling apart, and will get hammered by India repeatedly. No blessing, no disguise, most of the same team (if not all) will be playing in the world cup in England.

 

[giri26]

It is only a blessing if something is done about it. The 2-1 loss against Pakistan in 2013 brought about a sea change of personnel for India which allowed us to lift the Champions Trophy later that year. The 2007 England series loss where Rahul Dravid's Indian ODI team was criticised widely saw changes again for India including a new limited overs captain which brought us 2007 T20 WC and Tri-Series win in Australia. If Pakistan use this loss constructively then yes. But if it is brushed aside as something which comes with the package of being unpredictable, the situation will remain the same.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Coach didn't play spinners against SL in test series in UAE, Pakistan got whitewashed.

Coach again didn't play spinners in Asia cup in UAE. Pakistan couldn't compete.

He is a clueless coach. Pakistan have won and may win in future, but not due to him. Pakistan will win despite him.

Yes, Pakistan doesn't have infrastructure and all that is fine, but you still put the best team and play. Not selecting spinners may have been justified if Pakistani pacers were in class of McGrath, Marshall, Wasim etc.

Captain is equally responsible for this. UAE is Pakistan's adopted home and still not getting this simple fact makes me speechless.

Failure to play spinners can't explain the continued woes of the top order, that has been Pakistan's achilles heel for decades now. I am not sure how this blessing in disguise can fix shoddy technique, poor application and weak mentality anytime soon even if Pakistan play all the spinners they possess.