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MAHABHARATA - Discussion Thread

why not? this thread is about Mahabharatha not about any other thing, yet i see that some want to bring in other religions into discussion to prove their point.

The thread title asks whether its a myth or not, on britannica encyclopedia its mentioned as mythical story and often i have seen Indians discuss about nuclear war in Mahabharata with full seriousness.

So basically, i shouldnt be calling this a myth because some people around here will get offended? So i have to accept the nuclear war in mahabharata as reality?
Brahmastra does not mean nuclear weapon. The destruction it can cause was compared to a nuclear weapon by modern scholars and conspiracy theorists.

It is absolutely clear that a small local event that happened a few thousand years ago got vastly exaggerated by the writers. Extraordinary men of that time got literally deified and made them super heroes.

I believe that it is mostly a factual event with a lot of Garam Masala and lavish tadka added to it. Archeological evidence is lacking for all these events. Its hard to find too as it was supposed to have happened about 5000 years ago.
 
Brahmastra does not mean nuclear weapon. The destruction it can cause was compared to a nuclear weapon by modern scholars and conspiracy theorists.

It is absolutely clear that a small local event that happened a few thousand years ago got vastly exaggerated by the writers. Extraordinary men of that time got literally deified and made them super heroes.

I believe that it is mostly a factual event with a lot of Garam Masala and lavish tadka added to it. Archeological evidence is lacking for all these events. Its hard to find too as it was supposed to have happened about 5000 years ago.
but still people claim it happened... Might aswell mock such people who believe in such myths
 
bro, this isnt an Islam thread?
and the op (who is a troll), made the the thread title whether Mahabaharat is a MYTH or REALITY?

I am getting the sense that some are convincing others that its a reality and saying other wise is targeting the religion. And in this discussion how can one ignore the so called nuclear war?

in the past 2 pages of this thread, nothing serious has been discussed. No one mentions the radition that they say emits from one of the location and how they claim their was a nuclear war in BC era
There is such stuff in every religion but if you believe something you try to justify it. If you take a neutral point of view and look at some of the stories in Islam you will feel the same.

We all believe what we want to believe so there is no reason to mock anyone or try to prove them wrong.

Anyone who believes in Mahabharata will not stop believing if you criticize it but it might hurt their sentiments.

Muslims in particular should not criticize or mock such things because they cannot take it themselves. No group is easier to offend and takes more time to get offended.

My advice for you and other Muslims is to say out of this thread and give our Hindu friends space to discuss this.

Personally I am quite fascinated by this epic and also Ramayana which I have studied a bit. I would like to know more about Mahabharata one day when I have time but I would like to do so without judgement and without the need of proving anyone wrong or proving it a myth to satisfy my ego.

The funniest thing in this world is people of one religion trying to mock followers of another religion and accusing them of believing in myths and fantasies when every single religion in the world relies on blind faith.

If you were born in a Hindu family and you would have grown up studying Mahabharata and would have been conditioned to believe that it is true, you wouldn’t be calling it a myth today.

It is the same reason why you can believe in the existence of angels and jinns, in life hereafter, in stories of the Prophet’s journey to the seven heavens in one night, in Dajjal, in the return of Prophet Jesus etc. and so forth.

You have been conditioned to believe that all of that is true but your viewpoint would have been completely different if you weren’t raised in a Muslim family.

The bottomline is that we all need to give each other space to believe what they want to believe without mocking their beliefs or trying to prove them wrong.

Interfaith harmony is very easy to achieve if only people can make peace with the fact that they don’t need to impose themselves on other people to satisfy their fragile egos.
 
There is such stuff in every religion but if you believe something you try to justify it. If you take a neutral point of view and look at some of the stories in Islam you will feel the same.

We all believe what we want to believe so there is no reason to mock anyone or try to prove them wrong.

Anyone who believes in Mahabharata will not stop believing if you criticize it but it might hurt their sentiments.

Muslims in particular should not criticize or mock such things because they cannot take it themselves. No group is easier to offend and takes more time to get offended.

My advice for you and other Muslims is to say out of this thread and give our Hindu friends space to discuss this.

Personally I am quite fascinated by this epic and also Ramayana which I have studied a bit. I would like to know more about Mahabharata one day when I have time but I would like to do so without judgement and without the need of proving anyone wrong or proving it a myth to satisfy my ego.

The funniest thing in this world is people of one religion trying to mock followers of another religion and accusing them of believing in myths and fantasies when every single religion in the world relies on blind faith.

If you were born in a Hindu family and you would have grown up studying Mahabharata and would have been conditioned to believe that it is true, you wouldn’t be calling it a myth today.

It is the same reason why you can believe in the existence of angels and jinns, in life hereafter, in stories of the Prophet’s journey to the seven heavens in one night, in Dajjal, in the return of Prophet Jesus etc. and so forth.

You have been conditioned to believe that all of that is true but your viewpoint would have been completely different if you weren’t raised in a Muslim family.

The bottomline is that we all need to give each other space to believe what they want to believe without mocking their beliefs or trying to prove them wrong.

Interfaith harmony is very easy to achieve if only people can make peace with the fact that they don’t need to impose themselves on other people to satisfy their fragile egos.
I guess you were celebrating Ganesh Chaturthi yesterday!

Were you born in a Hindu family? Cos it sounds like it, and looks like it because every time you come out to defend India by attacking Pakistan/Islam.
 
Brahmastra does not mean nuclear weapon. The destruction it can cause was compared to a nuclear weapon by modern scholars and conspiracy theorists.

It is absolutely clear that a small local event that happened a few thousand years ago got vastly exaggerated by the writers. Extraordinary men of that time got literally deified and made them super heroes.

I believe that it is mostly a factual event with a lot of Garam Masala and lavish tadka added to it. Archeological evidence is lacking for all these events. Its hard to find too as it was supposed to have happened about 5000 years ago.
Brahmastra does not mean nuclear weapon. The destruction it can cause was compared to a nuclear weapon by modern scholars and conspiracy theorists.

It is absolutely clear that a small local event that happened a few thousand years ago got vastly exaggerated by the writers. Extraordinary men of that time got literally deified and made them super heroes.

I believe that it is mostly a factual event with a lot of Garam Masala and lavish tadka added to it. Archeological evidence is lacking for all these events. Its hard to find too as it was supposed to have happened about 5000 years ago.
Hinduism is too complex for the average mind. You would need a lifetime of education and research to grasp its philosophical intricacies.

To confine Hinduism to a religion where people worship idols and believe in mythical stories is not even equivalent to a drop in the ocean.

Unfortunately, people who don’t know the first thing about Hinduism still feel the need to argue about it.

Why argue about something that you don’t know anything about? It is absurd.
 
I guess you were celebrating Ganesh Chaturthi yesterday!

Were you born in a Hindu family? Cos it sounds like it, and looks like it because every time you come out to defend India by attacking Pakistan/Islam.
I know about Ganesh but I don’t know what Ganesh Chaturthi is. If I want to learn about it I will but I wouldn’t mock it.

I am a Muslim because I was born in a Muslim family. Not because I chose to become a Muslim.

It was a fluke of birth just like it was for you. This is why I have a lot of respect for converts because it is never easy to dispose your beliefs and adopt something that was not drilled into your in your formative years.

You would have celebrated Ganesh Chaturthi if you were born in a Hindu family and you would be mocking Islam today. That is the irony of the situation.

We all think we follow the right religion just because we have been brought up to believe so. As a result, believe what you want to believe and let others believe what they want to believe.
 
A myth, even encyclopaedias call it a mythical story.

Lol there were nuclear wars during BC era? Sure. Whatever convinces people

You would be calling for my beheading if i described Islamic stories in a similar manner. So kindly show some respect towards other beliefs.

Honestly this level of commenting is more suitable for unmoderated darker sides of the Internet and not a respectable forum like Pakpassion.

Let’s be reasonable men.
 
@Mamoon
Islam doesn't need myths to prove it's the right religion , even if you don't include any of the miracles of our prophet in propagating Islam , Islamic history is enough to prove it's correctness , How on earth mere 313 soldiers without even proper swords or horses defeated an army of 1000+? How on earth Quran predicted the rise of Roman empire against Persia? How on earth Quran the only religious book (or the only book in existence) which is in the heart of countless Muslims word by word ,How on earth an illiterate person who can't even read or right can produce socio and economic laws of human life based on fitra which if obeyed will relief poverty and will result in fair distribution of wealth among the nation , how on earth he can devise such law which if applied will solve the problems of women remain unmarried throughout their lives/after losing their husband.
How on earth those same muslims upon getting the sovereignty of a huge empire when started showing signs of disobeying to Allah getting replaced by Infidels (Tatari/Mongols) and then Allah made those tatari in to muslims , These all things are historical facts and not some myths
So any sane mind with logic and wisdom and which is guided by Allah will choose to accept factual religion instead of his birth religion which is based on myths and blind faith with no historical accuracy and facts
 
I know about Ganesh but I don’t know what Ganesh Chaturthi is. If I want to learn about it I will but I wouldn’t mock it.

I am a Muslim because I was born in a Muslim family. Not because I chose to become a Muslim.

It was a fluke of birth just like it was for you. This is why I have a lot of respect for converts because it is never easy to dispose your beliefs and adopt something that was not drilled into your in your formative years.

You would have celebrated Ganesh Chaturthi if you were born in a Hindu family and you would be mocking Islam today. That is the irony of the situation.

We all think we follow the right religion just because we have been brought up to believe so. As a result, believe what you want to believe and let others believe what they want to believe.
Fair enough would you say your Muslim or not?
 
@Mamoon
Islam doesn't need myths to prove it's the right religion , even if you don't include any of the miracles of our prophet in propagating Islam , Islamic history is enough to prove it's correctness , How on earth mere 313 soldiers without even proper swords or horses defeated an army of 1000+? How on earth Quran predicted the rise of Roman empire against Persia? How on earth Quran the only religious book (or the only book in existence) which is in the heart of countless Muslims word by word ,How on earth an illiterate person who can't even read or right can produce socio and economic laws of human life based on fitra which if obeyed will relief poverty and will result in fair distribution of wealth among the nation , how on earth he can devise such law which if applied will solve the problems of women remain unmarried throughout their lives/after losing their husband.
How on earth those same muslims upon getting the sovereignty of a huge empire when started showing signs of disobeying to Allah getting replaced by Infidels (Tatari/Mongols) and then Allah made those tatari in to muslims , These all things are historical facts and not some myths
So any sane mind with logic and wisdom and which is guided by Allah will choose to accept factual religion instead of his birth religion which is based on myths and blind faith with no historical accuracy and facts
You have completely disregarding all the myths in Islam which shares nearly identical mythology with followers of Christianity and Jewish faith. Adam/Eve , Noah may not be myths for you but for many its a regarded as myth.
 
Lets discuss the topic.

Nothing other than what is in the first post will be allowed to be discussed.
 
I clearly said Islam doesn’t need myths to convince or invite someone for it’s truth and Ofcourse what you said it’s part of our belief not myth but again we don’t have to present that part in order to convince someone not aware of Islam, there are countless other ways and I didn’t even touch the miracles of Quran subject
Every religion has a moral code and that's what sustain it. Islam is not the only exception to that rule. Mythological elements of it expands it , most times to enhance that point. If Islam didn't needed the mythological element then it would have been discarded long back.
 
Christian missionaries uses those stories and invite others to Christianity by means of blind faith not Muslims,
 
I've always thought it to be a Tolkien style epic that rivals LOTR that someone penned down thousands of years ago.

If I had the rights to it, I would sell it to Netflix so that they could make a much better serial version than what was produced by Doordarshan in the 1980s.
 
I've always thought it to be a Tolkien style epic that rivals LOTR that someone penned down thousands of years ago.

If I had the rights to it, I would sell it to Netflix so that they could make a much better serial version than what was produced by Doordarshan in the 1980s.
There is no physical evidence for Mahabharata or Ramayana stories. Only Hindu and Jain scriptures mention the story and the story varies a lot in both narratives. If Netflix wants, they can make a much better serial with best CGI that is available. It will be a great hit in India.
 
Christian missionaries uses those stories and invite others to Christianity by means of blind faith not Muslims,
Islam & Christianity also has the story of Nuu(Noah), Yunus(Jonas) and the story of Miraj(Night journey). Religious stories add and enhance to make the believers more religious.
 
Think some comprehension issues here?

I asked for the thread to be about the title only

No need to compare with Islam etc - that is for another thread
 
As most have said here it is a combination of truth and falsehood. The Qur'an does say that every nation was sent Prophet's so we can not mock Hindu religious figures. Such stories are so old that historians are unable to verify them.
 
I do believe the Mahabharata war did take place. But it has been combined with a lot of fantasy stories. That's my take.
 
I've always thought it to be a Tolkien style epic that rivals LOTR that someone penned down thousands of years ago.

If I had the rights to it, I would sell it to Netflix so that they could make a much better serial version than what was produced by Doordarshan in the 1980s.
Doordarshan actually made far superior version then the latter one. Mahabharta being a religious epic doesn't need licensing however anyone who makes it has to walk a tight rope because there are always people who will find some part offensive. Mahabharata character has characters that even goes further back than Raja Bharat , so if series creator wants it can last 20 years by sticking to source meterial. Also there are Mahabharbharta characters and their stories which goes generations further than Pandavas.
 
If Muslims can have serious discussions over the rise of a one eyed evil being and a messiah and a prophet descending from the heavens will join hands to defeat him, Hindus can also have serious discussions over Mahabharata.

One man’s mythical story is another man’s truth. It all depends on your faith and what you choose to believe in. Again, let’s not disrespect other religious sentiments when we cannot take it ourselves and have zero tolerance in this regard.
Yep. If you were to analyze any religion's scripture, AND I mean, ANY religion's using a historical-critical method, they would all fall apart fairly easily.

You need a quantum leap of faith to accept any of this stuff.

The poster you quoted would probably blow a head gasket if I were to question the historical development of the Quran as opposed to the version 1500 years of Muslims have heard from hadiths .

At some point, you need blind faith to accept any of it as rational, objective truth.
 
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Yep. If you were to analyze any religion's scripture, AND I mean, ANY religion's using a historical-critical method, they would all fall apart fairly easily.

You need a quantum leap of faith to accept any of this stuff.

The poster you quoted would probably blow a head gasket if I were to question the historical development of the Quran as opposed to the version 1500 years of Muslims have heard from hadiths .

At some point, you need blind faith to accept any of it as rational, objective truth.
I find it hilarious that some posters have such weak faith that to defend Mahabharata they have to bring in Islam.

Although i am a liberal and dont indulge in islamic discussions that much, but one thing I have notice that no muslim on this forum has to use other religions to back their point. The posters of Islamic faith have enough faith to defend whatever the topic is.

Its baffling to see that when posters here see the flaws in the logic of Mahabharata or whatever they believe in, they are trying to bring Islam into this thread.

Islam has nothing to do with this thread. If you faith in your religion defend it without dragging Islam in. Or else it just means you also think Mahabharata is flawed and just accept that, instead of bringing in Islam.

No you dont need blind faith.

You are gonna say that you need blind faith that a nuclear war took place in BC era? lol, you may need blind faith, but i dont need any faith to believe such a thing happened.

Whats next, you need blind faith to believe that pigs can fly?
 
I find it hilarious that some posters have such weak faith that to defend Mahabharata they have to bring in Islam.

Although i am a liberal and dont indulge in islamic discussions that much, but one thing I have notice that no muslim on this forum has to use other religions to back their point. The posters of Islamic faith have enough faith to defend whatever the topic is.

Its baffling to see that when posters here see the flaws in the logic of Mahabharata or whatever they believe in, they are trying to bring Islam into this thread.

Islam has nothing to do with this thread. If you faith in your religion defend it without dragging Islam in. Or else it just means you also think Mahabharata is flawed and just accept that, instead of bringing in Islam.

No you dont need blind faith.

You are gonna say that you need blind faith that a nuclear war took place in BC era? lol, you may need blind faith, but i dont need any faith to believe such a thing happened.

Whats next, you need blind faith to believe that pigs can fly?
I find it hilarious that you think that it's a great idea to defend apologists who have to do incredible mental gymnastics to justify their position . And maybe you've not seen it but apologists tend to trash others' viewpoints and beliefs to make their own point .

Also, only myopic fools would look at others' flawed beliefs and sit on a pretty perch while believing in a similarly gross distortion of reality themselves .

Defending something with blind faith in itself is pointless and fruitless.

But then again , you seem to have made a habit of in all your views, religious or otherwise :misbah4
 
I find it hilarious that some posters have such weak faith that to defend Mahabharata they have to bring in Islam.

Although i am a liberal and dont indulge in islamic discussions that much, but one thing I have notice that no muslim on this forum has to use other religions to back their point. The posters of Islamic faith have enough faith to defend whatever the topic is.

Its baffling to see that when posters here see the flaws in the logic of Mahabharata or whatever they believe in, they are trying to bring Islam into this thread.

Islam has nothing to do with this thread. If you faith in your religion defend it without dragging Islam in. Or else it just means you also think Mahabharata is flawed and just accept that, instead of bringing in Islam.

No you dont need blind faith.

You are gonna say that you need blind faith that a nuclear war took place in BC era? lol, you may need blind faith, but i dont need any faith to believe such a thing happened.

Whats next, you need blind faith to believe that pigs can fly?
so you don't need blind faith to justify that Prophet Muhammad ascended to heaven on winged horse ?
I find it funny that Muslims look down on other religions, make fun of them, call non muslim Kaafirs, behead people who don't believe in Islam in the name of Quran, like my Sikh Gurus.. and then when someone questions something about Islam go bat crazy and a killing spree. Have some shame..
 
so you don't need blind faith to justify that Prophet Muhammad ascended to heaven on winged horse ?
I find it funny that Muslims look down on other religions, make fun of them, call non muslim Kaafirs, behead people who don't believe in Islam in the name of Quran, like my Sikh Gurus.. and then when someone questions something about Islam go bat crazy and a killing spree. Have some shame..
like i said, if you believe in mahabharata that talk about it and defend your belief without dragging in Islam.

There are other threads for Islamic topics. And when we discuss Islamic topics, we dont need to use other religion stories to defend Islamic topics.

By dragging Islam into this thread, just shows weak faiths in your own beliefs.
 
like i said, if you believe in mahabharata that talk about it and defend your belief without dragging in Islam.

There are other threads for Islamic topics. And when we discuss Islamic topics, we dont need to use other religion stories to defend Islamic topics.

By dragging Islam into this thread, just shows weak faiths in your own beliefs.

Well the beliefs are of individual. The whole point is to not make fun of it, but as you can see it in this thread there are some really sad posts about mocking other faiths, especially Hinduism. This is a common trait, and when you guys are questioned about the tendency is to chicken out of the debate by saying that faith is weak. It is a very weak argument to make.
No ones faith is weak and no one has to defend his/her faith.
 
Well the beliefs are of individual. The whole point is to not make fun of it, but as you can see it in this thread there are some really sad posts about mocking other faiths, especially Hinduism. This is a common trait, and when you guys are questioned about the tendency is to chicken out of the debate by saying that faith is weak. It is a very weak argument to make.
No ones faith is weak and no one has to defend his/her faith.
faith is weak when you bring in another religion.


thing is thread title says myth or reality.

I find mahabharata a myth because people think nuclear war took place. Now if someone finds this sad, mocking etc, than this thread serves no purpose. Because a group is not ready to accept anything but reality argument.
 
Those who claim to be Muslim because they were born in a Muslim family have a choice to be not Muslim, at least on a random forum they can claim to be non-Muslim, no one is going to get offended.
 
faith is weak when you bring in another religion.


thing is thread title says myth or reality.

I find mahabharata a myth because people think nuclear war took place. Now if someone finds this sad, mocking etc, than this thread serves no purpose. Because a group is not ready to accept anything but reality argument.
Mahabharata Author(s) never claimed that there was nuclear war. You are watching too much of "Ancient Alien" conspiracy theorists. Some modern Hindus are running with the nuclear war idea to prop up themselves.
Embellishing local events into gigantic global proportions is a common theme for all cultures. Hindus are no exception.
 
faith is weak when you bring in another religion.


thing is thread title says myth or reality.

I find mahabharata a myth because people think nuclear war took place. Now if someone finds this sad, mocking etc, than this thread serves no purpose. Because a group is not ready to accept anything but reality argument.
Well I find anything about Islam as complete mythical as well because people talk about someone flying on winged horse and what not!!
So, the reality is what people believe in strongly.
 
Well I find anything about Islam as complete mythical as well because people talk about someone flying on winged horse and what not!!
So, the reality is what people believe in strongly.
talking to u is like talking to a wall..

why drag Islam to a thread that discusess MAHABHARATA?

The op himself said Mahabharata, MYTH or reality.

it seems like talking to a wall with you guys
 
Mahabharata Author(s) never claimed that there was nuclear war. You are watching too much of "Ancient Alien" conspiracy theorists. Some modern Hindus are running with the nuclear war idea to prop up themselves.
Embellishing local events into gigantic global proportions is a common theme for all cultures. Hindus are no exception.
out of 100 posts, the only post that is relevent.

Bro, thing is there are people that defend the nuclear aspect to the point that some even give a reference of Oppenheimer where they claim he also believed it was a nuclear event.

point is, if the defenders of it will say it was a nuclear event, than that shows how mythical the whole thing is.
 
Some weapons mentioned in the Hinduism mythology are different. There are conventional weapons like swords , mace , bow-arrow etc. I call them physical weapon. Then there is a case of weapon which have mental aspect to them. Some weapons can be even recalled. Good example being Brahmashira weapon being recalled by Arjuna. Ashwatthama invokes his Brahmashira against the Pandavas from a tiny blade of grass. Brahmshira destructive capability is not than dissimilar from Atomic/Nuclear weapon. So i get the conspiracy theorist making money of it.

From Wikipedia regarding Brahamshira - When this weapon is invoked, "It blazes up with terrible flames within a huge sphere of fire. Numerous peals of thunder to be heard, fissures start on earth, rivers become dry, thousands of meteors fell and all living creatures became terrified with great dread. The entire sky seemed to be filled with noise and assumed a terrible aspect with flames of fire. The whole earth with her mountains and waters and trees trembled". When it strikes an area, it will be destroyed and nothing will ever grow there,.

In Hinduism its stated that people from earlier Yuga were stronger than following one. So warriors from Ramayana era were stronger than Mahabharata era. Only select few from later era could match upto earlier era. Krishna i believe was the strongest person born in Dyapar Yuga who could match Rama of Treta Yuga. They both were avatar of Vishnu. Good example being Hanumanaji vs Bheema. Bheema struggled to lift Hanumanji's tail. Bheema was reckoned to be among the strongest (physically) person in Mahabharata era.
 
talking to u is like talking to a wall..

why drag Islam to a thread that discusess MAHABHARATA?

The op himself said Mahabharata, MYTH or reality.

it seems like talking to a wall with you guys
He pointed out your hypocrisy because you claim your religion to be reality when that is just a mythical.

When the hypocrisy is pointed out, you hide behind the 'why bring other religion into this argument'

Just accept each other for their beliefs, we all don't have to agree with each other, but no need to mock other beliefs.
 
He pointed out your hypocrisy because you claim your religion to be reality when that is just a mythical.

When the hypocrisy is pointed out, you hide behind the 'why bring other religion into this argument'

Just accept each other for their beliefs, we all don't have to agree with each other, but no need to mock other beliefs.
read the thread title, the OP himself gave the option whether you believe its a myth or Reality.

You are basically forcing posters to accept that Mahabharata is a reality and cannot be a myth. THats not discussions go. And i see this thread represents the problem in India. You have accept one thing, you cannot critique it or call it a myth. Even though the OP himself added it in the thread title.

Its not like this thread is about rejoicing the tale of Mahabharata, its a topic where you can be on the side of reality or be on the side of myth.

and i am on the side of myth

and for some reason you guys are taking this as insult.

Also, bringing in other religions to this thrad isnt hypocrisy, its the protocol of discussion. No one is stop you from making a thread on other topics, but this thread is for a belief whether its a myth or reality. But while some cant prove its reality, they try to bring other religions lol. Thats called not believeing in your own thing and relying on others
 
read the thread title, the OP himself gave the option whether you believe its a myth or Reality.

You are basically forcing posters to accept that Mahabharata is a reality and cannot be a myth. THats not discussions go. And i see this thread represents the problem in India. You have accept one thing, you cannot critique it or call it a myth. Even though the OP himself added it in the thread title.

Its not like this thread is about rejoicing the tale of Mahabharata, its a topic where you can be on the side of reality or be on the side of myth.

and i am on the side of myth

and for some reason you guys are taking this as insult.

Also, bringing in other religions to this thrad isnt hypocrisy, its the protocol of discussion. No one is stop you from making a thread on other topics, but this thread is for a belief whether its a myth or reality. But while some cant prove its reality, they try to bring other religions lol. Thats called not believeing in your own thing and relying on others
I am not forcing any posters to do anything.

I am saying that accept we all won't agree but do not need to mock other beliefs..
 
I am not forcing any posters to do anything.

I am saying that accept we all won't agree but do not need to mock other beliefs..
who is mocking what?

THere are people that claim mahabharata had a nuclear event. So i am suppose to accept that with a serious face? NO.

you are just forcing posters here to accept a faith
 
who is mocking what?

THere are people that claim mahabharata had a nuclear event. So i am suppose to accept that with a serious face? NO.

you are just forcing posters here to accept a faith
You, I and other Muslims are not qualified to debate whether Mahabharata is a myth or reality because (a) we don’t know anything about it and (b) as Muslims, we don’t believe in Hinduism.

As a result, we add no merit to this argument and our assessment has zero significance. Please leave this thread to people who believe in Hinduism.

There are Hindus who question Mahabharata’s events and there are those who don’t.

As Muslims, what value do we bring to this thread? Absolutely zero.

It is like Hindus debating if Prophet Jesus will come back, or if the Prophet’s journey to heaven was a dream or physical journey, or whether Dajjal is a metaphor or an actual being etc.
 
You, I and other Muslims are not qualified to debate whether Mahabharata is a myth or reality because (a) we don’t know anything about it and (b) as Muslims, we don’t believe in Hinduism.

As a result, we add no merit to this argument and our assessment has zero significance. Please leave this thread to people who believe in Hinduism.

There are Hindus who question Mahabharata’s events and there are those who don’t.

As Muslims, what value do we bring to this thread? Absolutely zero.

It is like Hindus debating if Prophet Jesus will come back, or if the Prophet’s journey to heaven was a dream or physical journey, or whether Dajjal is a metaphor or an actual being etc.

So if muslims are not qualified to debate than why is a mahabaratha thread existing on pakpassion where 90 percent posters are muslim?

On all other threads related to religion is there first a scrutiny for what religion you belong to be fore discussing?

You are not the mod, so plz dont come and make up your own rules here just because you have issues with my post..

Like i said, if people believe in this, no need to bring in other religions tp defend your own faith.
 
Just watched the full documentary “Dating the Mahabharata | The 5561 BCE Revelation” by Nilesh Oak, hosted on Prachyam’s YouTube channel. The film presents a bold and detailed argument that the Kurukshetra war took place in 5561 BCE, using astronomical data from ancient texts like the Mahabharata itself. Oak systematically analyzes planetary positions, eclipses, and references in the epic to support his claim. It's a compelling intersection of science, history, and tradition

 
If it did happen, couldn't have been that sophisticated as claimed because Indians only learnt how to write from the Persians few centuries before the birth of Jesus.
 
If it did happen, couldn't have been that sophisticated as claimed because Indians only learnt how to write from the Persians few centuries before the birth of Jesus.
Let's break your arguments into two.

1.Indians learnt to write from Persians.
Persians taught Indians to write in Proto-Dravidian?

2.Mahabharatha isn't sophisticated?
It might not have happened , I agree like any religion I think including Abrahamic stories there is no concrete proof it happened, but it's very complex and ahead of its time.
 
Let's break your arguments into two.

1.Indians learnt to write from Persians.
Persians taught Indians to write in Proto-Dravidian?

2.Mahabharatha isn't sophisticated?
It might not have happened , I agree like any religion I think including Abrahamic stories there is no concrete proof it happened, but it's very complex and ahead of its time.
You might want to check what the brahmi script is based on and when it came about...

Societies with oral traditions are not very sophisticated.
 
You might want to check what the brahmi script is based on and when it came about...

Societies with oral traditions are not very sophisticated.
Indians weren’t “taught” by Persians to write as Proto Dravidian isn’t related to Persian language.

Was the society not sophisticated or Mahabharata not sophisticated?
 
If it did happen, couldn't have been that sophisticated as claimed because Indians only learnt how to write from the Persians few centuries before the birth of Jesus.
Indians did not learn anything from Persians. Persians and Vedic Indians were one group before they split off due to war and views on their religion.
You need to read about the battle of 10 kings that happened in the North and Northwest part of modern day India/pakistan and Afghanistan. Kings ruling those lands were involved in a fierce battle which gave decisive victory to King Sudhas of the Bharatha tribe. All of this was mentioned in Rigveda. The tribes that lost the war include - Puru, Yadu, Turvasa, Anu, Druhyu, Alina, Paktha, Bhalnas, Shiva and Vishanin tribes.
Some of the tribe names that lost may sound familiar. Paktha from modern day Afghanistan. The other tribes are supposed to have been from central India all the way to Central Asia. It was fought near
The river Parushni (Ravi). All of these events happened before Vedas were completely composed. Nobody knows the exact dates on these events.
Mahabharata is loosely based on this battle of 10 kings.

Vedic Sanskrit did not have a written form. It was Shruti(what is heard of directly from God’s). Some scholars suggest that Vedic people wrote on palm leaves and Birch tree barks. They will not survive for more than a decade. The first written evidence of Vedas comes from 3rd century bce. Around the same time the Buddhist Texts start appearing in Brahmi script and later in Pali.

Buddha was supposed to have lived between 6th to 5th century bce. But his teachings were only written down much later around 2nd century bce. That does not mean Buddha did not exist.

If you think Persians taught Indians how to read and write, you are ignorant as heck. The oldest written Avestan text is from 10th century ce. That did not mean that Zoroastrians did not know how to read and write. Avestan texts aka Gathas were composed around the same time as Rigveda. But orally transmitted for centuries before finally written down.

By the way, old Persian or Avestan Persian and Vedic Sanskrit are extremely similar. Which shows both the languages came from a common Indo Aryan/ European language.
 
Is there a shorter version with just the main stories? For an intro

This is a good option.


Pakistanis and subcontinental Muslims need not be afraid of engaging with ancient Sanatani scriptures. Even if acknowledging Hindu gods feels difficult, these texts can be read purely as a window into the region’s rich and ancient cultural legacy and its timeless stories.

Mahabharata is an epic about duty, power, desire, and moral conflict. It shows how to remain balanced in the face of temptation or defeat and highlights that inner strength and wisdom are far more enduring than mere victory.
 
This is a good option.


Pakistanis and subcontinental Muslims need not be afraid of engaging with ancient Sanatani scriptures. Even if acknowledging Hindu gods feels difficult, these texts can be read purely as a window into the region’s rich and ancient cultural legacy and its timeless stories.

Mahabharata is an epic about duty, power, desire, and moral conflict. It shows how to remain balanced in the face of temptation or defeat and highlights that inner strength and wisdom are far more enduring than mere victory.

True words. There is wisdom in many ancient texts, often that wisdom endures far longer than what seems on trend and liberating in more recent history.
 
Mahabharat is a epic written s long time back . A lot of things have been added latter on , which were not part of original Text.
 
There is such stuff in every religion but if you believe something you try to justify it. If you take a neutral point of view and look at some of the stories in Islam you will feel the same.

We all believe what we want to believe so there is no reason to mock anyone or try to prove them wrong.

Anyone who believes in Mahabharata will not stop believing if you criticize it but it might hurt their sentiments.

Muslims in particular should not criticize or mock such things because they cannot take it themselves. No group is easier to offend and takes more time to get offended.

My advice for you and other Muslims is to say out of this thread and give our Hindu friends space to discuss this.

Personally I am quite fascinated by this epic and also Ramayana which I have studied a bit. I would like to know more about Mahabharata one day when I have time but I would like to do so without judgement and without the need of proving anyone wrong or proving it a myth to satisfy my ego.

The funniest thing in this world is people of one religion trying to mock followers of another religion and accusing them of believing in myths and fantasies when every single religion in the world relies on blind faith.

If you were born in a Hindu family and you would have grown up studying Mahabharata and would have been conditioned to believe that it is true, you wouldn’t be calling it a myth today.

It is the same reason why you can believe in the existence of angels and jinns, in life hereafter, in stories of the Prophet’s journey to the seven heavens in one night, in Dajjal, in the return of Prophet Jesus etc. and so forth.

You have been conditioned to believe that all of that is true but your viewpoint would have been completely different if you weren’t raised in a Muslim family.

The bottomline is that we all need to give each other space to believe what they want to believe without mocking their beliefs or trying to prove them wrong.

Interfaith harmony is very easy to achieve if only people can make peace with the fact that they don’t need to impose themselves on other people to satisfy their fragile egos.
Mahabharat is interesting , Ramayan is drab in comparison . There have been few well made serials on Mahabharat , you seen any of them ?
 
Mahabharat is interesting , Ramayan is drab in comparison . There have been few well made serials on Mahabharat , you seen any of them ?
Ramayana is about someone who is an ideal son, husband, Father and king. He is venerated because he traveled from North all the way to Lanka, fought a war and brought back his wife. Only to send her back to Forest because someone in his kingdom expressed doubts about the chastity of his wife Sita. He is also venerated because he did not take any other wife after Sita. In those days having multiple wives as a King was the norm.

Mahabharata is about the fight between cousins of Kuru dynasty. Basically Pandavas fighting for their share of the empire against Kauravas who did not want to share it. The two groups were mediated by Lord Krishna. When the talks failed, they fought the Mahabharata war. It has in depth analysis of various characters and why they decided to take sides and fought for one group or the other.
 
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Indians weren’t “taught” by Persians to write as Proto Dravidian isn’t related to Persian language.

Was the society not sophisticated or Mahabharata not sophisticated?
proto dravidian is not an actual language or script but a "hypothetical reconstructed language" .... in simple terms, there is no proof, its just made up.

Again... check the oldest available script and what its based on.
 
Indians did not learn anything from Persians. Persians and Vedic Indians were one group before they split off due to war and views on their religion.
You need to read about the battle of 10 kings that happened in the North and Northwest part of modern day India/pakistan and Afghanistan. Kings ruling those lands were involved in a fierce battle which gave decisive victory to King Sudhas of the Bharatha tribe. All of this was mentioned in Rigveda. The tribes that lost the war include - Puru, Yadu, Turvasa, Anu, Druhyu, Alina, Paktha, Bhalnas, Shiva and Vishanin tribes.
Some of the tribe names that lost may sound familiar. Paktha from modern day Afghanistan. The other tribes are supposed to have been from central India all the way to Central Asia. It was fought near
The river Parushni (Ravi). All of these events happened before Vedas were completely composed. Nobody knows the exact dates on these events.
Mahabharata is loosely based on this battle of 10 kings.

Vedic Sanskrit did not have a written form. It was Shruti(what is heard of directly from God’s). Some scholars suggest that Vedic people wrote on palm leaves and Birch tree barks. They will not survive for more than a decade. The first written evidence of Vedas comes from 3rd century bce. Around the same time the Buddhist Texts start appearing in Brahmi script and later in Pali.

Buddha was supposed to have lived between 6th to 5th century bce. But his teachings were only written down much later around 2nd century bce. That does not mean Buddha did not exist.

If you think Persians taught Indians how to read and write, you are ignorant as heck. The oldest written Avestan text is from 10th century ce. That did not mean that Zoroastrians did not know how to read and write. Avestan texts aka Gathas were composed around the same time as Rigveda. But orally transmitted for centuries before finally written down.

By the way, old Persian or Avestan Persian and Vedic Sanskrit are extremely similar. Which shows both the languages came from a common Indo Aryan/ European language.

Again a convoluted answer to twist facts... Brahmi is the oldest available script, which is based on the language the Persians were using at that time. It is a blow for the Indian ego that Persians taught Indians how to write, but it is what it is mate, facts are facts..
 
proto dravidian is not an actual language or script but a "hypothetical reconstructed language" .... in simple terms, there is no proof, its just made up.

Again... check the oldest available script and what its based on.
Here let me put it so its easy- Tamil is the oldest Indian language, and it’s not related to Persian.

You can read about Sangam literature but i Understand it’s hard for Pakistanis to not see anything beyond North India.
 
Here let me put it so its easy- Tamil is the oldest Indian language, and it’s not related to Persian.

You can read about Sangam literature but i Understand it’s hard for Pakistanis to not see anything beyond North India.
Its a variant of the Brahmi script... first you brought in a fictitious language and then variant of the script that Persians were using and trying to palm it off as a separate script.

Why not accept the fact that Persians taught Indians how to write.... notice the emphasis on "how to write".

If we accept the fact that mahabarta is 5000 years old, then how come this "great civilisation" had no knowledge of writing prior to few hundred years before the birth of Jesus.
 
Again a convoluted answer to twist facts... Brahmi is the oldest available script, which is based on the language the Persians were using at that time. It is a blow for the Indian ego that Persians taught Indians how to write, but it is what it is mate, facts are facts..
Brahmi script is not based on old Persian or Middle Persian script. Where do you get your info from?
Old Persian or Avestan Persian was in Cuneiform and later it adopted the Pahlavi script and finally it took influences from Arabic to form the modern day Farsi script.

You are exposing your ignorance. Again where do you get your info from?:mv
 
Brahmi script is not based on old Persian or Middle Persian script. Where do you get your info from?
Old Persian or Avestan Persian was in Cuneiform and later it adopted the Pahlavi script and finally it took influences from Arabic to form the modern day Farsi script.

You are exposing your ignorance. Again where do you get your info from?:mv
Evidentially what is the oldest Indian script?

Again - I said Persians taught you how to write. Did I say they were using Persian script as we know today?

I said, it was the language Persians were using at that time. Go find out what the official language Cyrus the great had in his vast empire.
 
Its a variant of the Brahmi script... first you brought in a fictitious language and then variant of the script that Persians were using and trying to palm it off as a separate script.

Why not accept the fact that Persians taught Indians how to write.... notice the emphasis on "how to write".

If we accept the fact that mahabarta is 5000 years old, then how come this "great civilisation" had no knowledge of writing prior to few hundred years before the birth of Jesus.
Stop it dude. You are embarrassing yourself.

The oldest available fully formed script in India is Brahmi script from around 3rd century bce.

Vedic Sanskrit was codified by Mr. Panini in 5th century bce. He is the one that gave it proper grammar in his Ashtadhyaya. From his time onwards, Vedic Sanskrit modified itself into middle Sanskrit. From it came many Prakrit languages came. Your nation speaks the same Prakrit languages with strong admixture of Arabic and Persian words.
 
Evidentially what is the oldest Indian script?

Again - I said Persians taught you how to write. Did I say they were using Persian script as we know today?

I said, it was the language Persians were using at that time. Go find out what the official language Cyrus the great had in his vast empire.
Oldest indisputable written Brahmi script is from 3rd century bce. It comes from Emperor Ashoka’s edicts.

I am pretty sure Ashoka did not invest this script. It must have existed for centuries. We just don’t have clear evidence for it.

By the way, Brahmi script has nothing to do with Persian script. Both differ significantly. Old Persian or Avestan Persian was in Cuneiform. Indian subcontinent had its own script even during Indus Valley civilization. It is yet to be deciphered. You seem to think that Indians are some dumb brutes. What a way to insult your own ancestors and that too without any evidence. :facepalm:
 
I was quite enjoying the discussion between @Champ_Pal and @IronShield, it gave me curiosity so I checked with AI about it.

Quite interesting read, history mixed with psychology is fascinating and without concrete factual evidence it is open to one’s own interpretation depending on their unique biases as evident in this conversation.
 
Mahabharat is interesting , Ramayan is drab in comparison . There have been few well made serials on Mahabharat , you seen any of them ?
Serials have limitations , they are work of fiction , they are bound by screen play . If you really want to know about Ramayan or Mahabharat you need to read them. I think then you will get a better idea.
 
Oldest indisputable written Brahmi script is from 3rd century bce. It comes from Emperor Ashoka’s edicts.

I am pretty sure Ashoka did not invest this script. It must have existed for centuries. We just don’t have clear evidence for it.

By the way, Brahmi script has nothing to do with Persian script. Both differ significantly. Old Persian or Avestan Persian was in Cuneiform. Indian subcontinent had its own script even during Indus Valley civilization. It is yet to be deciphered. You seem to think that Indians are some dumb brutes. What a way to insult your own ancestors and that too without any evidence. :facepalm:

Again, you are conflating things. Check what Cyrus the great had as his language, let me know if that is Persian as we know it. The answer is No, it's a version of Aramaic. The Brahmi script is based on this. Therefore, it is the Persians who taught Indians to go from oral tradition to writing.

But ofcourse you want to believe what you want to... but evidence states otherwise.
 
I was quite enjoying the discussion between @Champ_Pal and @IronShield, it gave me curiosity so I checked with AI about it.

Quite interesting read, history mixed with psychology is fascinating and without concrete factual evidence it is open to one’s own interpretation depending on their unique biases as evident in this conversation.
The evidence is simple... check the oldest Indian script and what it is based on. There is no bias on my part, there is scholarly work on this, and most agree with my view.
 
Again, you are conflating things. Check what Cyrus the great had as his language, let me know if that is Persian as we know it. The answer is No, it's a version of Aramaic. The Brahmi script is based on this. Therefore, it is the Persians who taught Indians to go from oral tradition to writing.

But ofcourse you want to believe what you want to... but evidence states otherwise.
Persian script has nothing to do with Brahmi.
The words of classical Persian however are pretty much the same as Vedic Sanskrit. Both are sister languages.
Again, Brahmi script did not come from Persian script. It may have been influenced by other existing scripts due to trade and conquests. But Brahmi is an indigenous script and it is the mother of all Indian scripts in existence barring Dravidian and some Austro Adriatic languages in India.

Coming to south India, the oldest script is Tamil-Brahmi script found in some artifacts and the written inscriptions on to stone dates back to 3rd century bce.

Your attempts to show India in poor light is an epic failure. But carry on. You seem to be very happy to put down the achievements of your own ancestors. :mv
 
Persian script has nothing to do with Brahmi.
The words of classical Persian however are pretty much the same as Vedic Sanskrit. Both are sister languages.
Again, Brahmi script did not come from Persian script. It may have been influenced by other existing scripts due to trade and conquests. But Brahmi is an indigenous script and it is the mother of all Indian scripts in existence barring Dravidian and some Austro Adriatic languages in India.

Coming to south India, the oldest script is Tamil-Brahmi script found in some artifacts and the written inscriptions on to stone dates back to 3rd century bce.

Your attempts to show India in poor light is an epic failure. But carry on. You seem to be very happy to put down the achievements of your own ancestors. :mv
Let me say it agin...... and hopefully this time it will go in. Check when Brahmi script came about and which language the Persians were using at the time.

It is ARAMIAC.

Brahmi is based on Aramaic, it's an established view point. Only some Indians are having trouble now as it bursts the bubble of ancient world sophistication. So for almost 5000 years, most of India was defecating outside up till recently in the last decade or so... Thats not a sign of sophisticated ancient society. That should give you a clue.

Why are you taking it as a personal offence if our ancestors learnt to write to from Persians. It's baffling to me. So you rather have delusions of grandeur rather than believing the truth?
 
Why are you taking it as a personal offence if our ancestors learnt to write to from Persians. It's baffling to me. So you rather have delusions of grandeur rather than believing the truth?
Mahabharata is based on faith , it’s similar to other faiths that have miracles.. are you saying be logical and have no delusions of grandeur?

I do think that’s correct actually.. I’m hoping you are agnostic or atheist .. coz that argument makes more sense now..
 
Mahabharata is based on faith , it’s similar to other faiths that have miracles.. are you saying be logical and have no delusions of grandeur?

I do think that’s correct actually.. I’m hoping you are agnostic or atheist .. coz that argument makes more sense now..
If Mahabharata it's faith based then fine, I can accept that and there needs to be a distinction made.

However, Persians teaching Indians how to write is not a matter of faith, it's what the evidence suggests. I am not sure why it's become an ego issue.... it is what it is...
 
If Mahabharata it's faith based then fine, I can accept that and there needs to be a distinction made.

However, Persians teaching Indians how to write is not a matter of faith, it's what the evidence suggests. I am not sure why it's become an ego issue.... it is what it is...
Two concerns with that approach is one your only consideration is Brahmi is the only time Indian subcontinent learnt to write.Because Indus script has not been deciphered one cannot conclude completely it didn’t form a writing system..

Second the origins of the Brahmi script are debated still, and yes it could be by Indian scholars but still they don’t agree.


On faith: I personally doubt any miracle in any religion happened, I might have faith but I personally doubt any of that happened either, this goes for miracles of both the religions I follow Hinduism and Sikhism..

On Persia: They were definitely a great civilisation, with a glorious history.
 
Claiming Indus Valley civilisation is like Turks claiming Hittites. IVC had no bearing on Indian civilisation that you know of, it just disappeared, like the Hiitites with Turkey.

Debated by those who cannot accept that Persians are the ones who taught Indians how to write.... Its ego rather than anything else.
 
The evidence is simple... check the oldest Indian script and what it is based on. There is no bias on my part, there is scholarly work on this, and most agree with my view.

These days AI tooks are available free, I used a couple and asked the simple question you have been writing as “fact”

Did Persians taught Indian subcontinent how to write?

Answer:

Good question — and a nuanced one. Confidence: 90%


No, Persians did not teach Indians how to write, though there was later influence between the two civilizations. Let’s break it down historically and linguistically:


Early Indian Writing: Indigenous Origins

  • The oldest known script from the Indian subcontinent is the Indus Valley script (around 2600–1900 BCE).
    • It predates Persian civilization’s contact with India by more than a thousand years.
    • It remains undeciphered, but it clearly shows that Indians were writing long before Persians arrived.

  • Later, the Brahmi script (around 600–400 BCE) is considered the ancestor of most modern Indian scripts (like Devanagari, Tamil, Bengali, etc.).
    • Scholars debate its origins, but the majority agree it developed locally in India, possibly influenced slightly by external scripts.

Persian Influence Came Later

  • Around 500 BCE, parts of northwestern India (like Gandhara) came under Achaemenid Persian rule (Cyrus, Darius).
  • Persians introduced their Imperial Aramaic script for administration in those regions.
    • This may have influenced the development of Kharosthi, another ancient Indian script used in the northwest (modern Pakistan/Afghanistan).
    • But Kharosthi was regional, while Brahmi spread across India and formed the root of Indian writing.



Script
Origin
Possible Influence
Indus ScriptIndigenous (2600 BCE)None known
BrahmiIndigenous (600–400 BCE)Maybe minor Aramaic visual influence
KharosthiNorthwestern India (500 BCE)Directly influenced by Aramaic (Persian Empire)





Conclusion



  • Indians already had their own writing traditions before Persian contact.
  • Persians did not teach India how to write, but their Aramaic script influenced one regional writing system (Kharosthi) in the northwest during Persian rule.


Like I said in my first post, your bias interpreted “may have influenced” to Persians teaching Indians how to write.
@champ_pal’s bias may not let him accept it was influenced by Persians.

However, factually you are incorrect as per AI tools, hence what you are saying is your ill-informed opinions and not facts.
 
These days AI tooks are available free, I used a couple and asked the simple question you have been writing as “fact”

Did Persians taught Indian subcontinent how to write?

Answer:

Good question — and a nuanced one. Confidence: 90%


No, Persians did not teach Indians how to write, though there was later influence between the two civilizations. Let’s break it down historically and linguistically:


Early Indian Writing: Indigenous Origins

  • The oldest known script from the Indian subcontinent is the Indus Valley script (around 2600–1900 BCE).
    • It predates Persian civilization’s contact with India by more than a thousand years.
    • It remains undeciphered, but it clearly shows that Indians were writing long before Persians arrived.

  • Later, the Brahmi script (around 600–400 BCE) is considered the ancestor of most modern Indian scripts (like Devanagari, Tamil, Bengali, etc.).
    • Scholars debate its origins, but the majority agree it developed locally in India, possibly influenced slightly by external scripts.

Persian Influence Came Later

  • Around 500 BCE, parts of northwestern India (like Gandhara) came under Achaemenid Persian rule (Cyrus, Darius).
  • Persians introduced their Imperial Aramaic script for administration in those regions.
    • This may have influenced the development of Kharosthi, another ancient Indian script used in the northwest (modern Pakistan/Afghanistan).
    • But Kharosthi was regional, while Brahmi spread across India and formed the root of Indian writing.



Script
Origin
Possible Influence
Indus ScriptIndigenous (2600 BCE)None known
BrahmiIndigenous (600–400 BCE)Maybe minor Aramaic visual influence
KharosthiNorthwestern India (500 BCE)Directly influenced by Aramaic (Persian Empire)





Conclusion



  • Indians already had their own writing traditions before Persian contact.
  • Persians did not teach India how to write, but their Aramaic script influenced one regional writing system (Kharosthi) in the northwest during Persian rule.


Like I said in my first post, your bias interpreted “may have influenced” to Persians teaching Indians how to write.
@champ_pal’s bias may not let him accept it was influenced by Persians.

However, factually you are incorrect as per AI tools, hence what you are saying is your ill-informed opinions and not facts.
Trade and conquests always influence the culture, language and writings. My claim was never that Persian or Arabic or Austro Asiatic languages, Tibeto-Burmese languages and scripts did not influence how Indian language and script evolved.

My rebuttal was the claim that Persians taught Indians how to write which is a silly claim. Pakistanis just want to feel good about themselves by downplaying Indian civilization. Nothing new. :rolleyes:
 
Trade and conquests always influence the culture, language and writings. My claim was never that Persian or Arabic or Austro Asiatic languages, Tibeto-Burmese languages and scripts did not influence how Indian language and script evolved.

My rebuttal was the claim that Persians taught Indians how to write which is a silly claim. Pakistanis just want to feel good about themselves by downplaying Indian civilization. Nothing new. :rolleyes:
You do realise that all of what I said applies to Pakistan too? This difference is they do not have delusions of grandeur.

These days AI tooks are available free, I used a couple and asked the simple question you have been writing as “fact”

Did Persians taught Indian subcontinent how to write?

Answer:

Good question — and a nuanced one. Confidence: 90%


No, Persians did not teach Indians how to write, though there was later influence between the two civilizations. Let’s break it down historically and linguistically:


Early Indian Writing: Indigenous Origins

  • The oldest known script from the Indian subcontinent is the Indus Valley script (around 2600–1900 BCE).
    • It predates Persian civilization’s contact with India by more than a thousand years.
    • It remains undeciphered, but it clearly shows that Indians were writing long before Persians arrived.

  • Later, the Brahmi script (around 600–400 BCE) is considered the ancestor of most modern Indian scripts (like Devanagari, Tamil, Bengali, etc.).
    • Scholars debate its origins, but the majority agree it developed locally in India, possibly influenced slightly by external scripts.

Persian Influence Came Later

  • Around 500 BCE, parts of northwestern India (like Gandhara) came under Achaemenid Persian rule (Cyrus, Darius).
  • Persians introduced their Imperial Aramaic script for administration in those regions.
    • This may have influenced the development of Kharosthi, another ancient Indian script used in the northwest (modern Pakistan/Afghanistan).
    • But Kharosthi was regional, while Brahmi spread across India and formed the root of Indian writing.



Script
Origin
Possible Influence
Indus ScriptIndigenous (2600 BCE)None known
BrahmiIndigenous (600–400 BCE)Maybe minor Aramaic visual influence
KharosthiNorthwestern India (500 BCE)Directly influenced by Aramaic (Persian Empire)





Conclusion



  • Indians already had their own writing traditions before Persian contact.
  • Persians did not teach India how to write, but their Aramaic script influenced one regional writing system (Kharosthi) in the northwest during Persian rule.


Like I said in my first post, your bias interpreted “may have influenced” to Persians teaching Indians how to write.
@champ_pal’s bias may not let him accept it was influenced by Persians.

However, factually you are incorrect as per AI tools, hence what you are saying is your ill-informed opinions and not facts.
Seriously AI? .... You do know how AI works? Put enough garbage on the internet and it will present it you as facts.

You failed to interpret your own results, notice the trend in your own search... Kharosthi (a lot based on Aramaic) was replaced by Brahmi script (also based on Aramaic but less). There was no independent indigenous script prior to this that Indians were using. Therefore your own search tells you thats Persians taught Indians how to write.




Its like saying 3000 years from now that British didn't teach Indians how to play cricket.
 
so you don't need blind faith to justify that Prophet Muhammad ascended to heaven on winged horse ?
I find it funny that Muslims look down on other religions, make fun of them, call non muslim Kaafirs, behead people who don't believe in Islam in the name of Quran, like my Sikh Gurus.. and then when someone questions something about Islam go bat crazy and a killing spree. Have some shame..
There is a difference between improbable and impossible . In Islam you cannot force someone to become Muslim , it defeats the very purpose of Islam. If someone does that he is wrong , for example there are sikhs who do actions against teachings of Guru Grant , does that mean their actions are representing teachings of gurus?
 
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