Major study debunks myth that moderate drinking can be healthy

[KingKhanWC]

Thousands of Irish die due to alcohol related issues. Im sure they will be raising a glass of water in heaven.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Thousands of Irish die due to alcohol related issues. Im sure they will be raising a glass of water in heaven.

They died doing what they loved.

 

[KingKhanWC]

They died doing what they loved.

I dont think this victim would see walking on a footpath and being killed as 'died doing what I loved'

A drunk driver who killed a GAA coach after running him over on a footpath in Co Clare has been jailed for four years.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drunk-driver-jailed-for-killing-gaa-coach-bp3fflng0

 

[Donal Cozzie]

I dont think this victim would see walking on a footpath and being killed as 'died doing what I loved'



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drunk-driver-jailed-for-killing-gaa-coach-bp3fflng0

true, but again, drivers fault, not alcohol. He made the choice to drive under the influence, nobody forced him, no excuse nowadays not to get a taxi or a lift.

I've stated myself the importance of knowing your limits and not being foolish. I have also said people need to take personal responsibility for things they do.

To blame drink driving solely on alcohol is just foolish. Its pure selfishness and ignorance on behalf of the driver, nothing more. Easy to blame the drink, harder to look inwards and take responsibility for your own decisions.

 

[Zhasan]

true, but again, drivers fault, not alcohol. He made the choice to drive under the influence, nobody forced him, no excuse nowadays not to get a taxi or a lift.

I've stated myself the importance of knowing your limits and not being foolish. I have also said people need to take personal responsibility for things they do.

To blame drink driving solely on alcohol is just foolish. Its pure selfishness and ignorance on behalf of the driver, nothing more. Easy to blame the drink, harder to look inwards and take responsibility for your own decisions.

You sound like a brain dead right wing republican nutter in Murica, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".

 

[Robert]

This is true, but you're missing the point of my post. Regular exercise is able to massively reduce negative effects of fast food to your liver and burns the fat that can block arteries. This isn't quite the case with alcohol, which not only is bad for you liver, but also bad for your brain and obviously excessive drinking can very quickly lead to you losing control of your actions. There's only one way to stop alcohol constantly damaging you and that is to stop drinking it.

If you have fast food, yes it can easily be toxic for your internal organs if you let it build up, however doing regular exercise is good enough to stop you from having any health issues.

Generally, a person who orders fast food once a week and is physically active throughout the week is going to be much better off than a person who goes to the pub, drinks excessively and is physically throughout the week. It's actually such a massive difference that I'm surprised how people are able to compare the two despite so much scientific evidence being out there for everyone to see.

The daily fast food diet causes liver cirrhosis no matter how much you exercise.

What are you calling “drinking excessively”? A few pints on Saturday nights alone never hurt me - drinking several nights a week will start to cause damage.

 

[Robert]

You sound like a brain dead right wing republican nutter in Murica, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".

[MENTION=136108]Donal Cozzie[/MENTION] is quite correct. Alcohol does not make people drink-drive. Irresponsibility does.

 

[Itachi]

You sound like a brain dead right wing republican nutter in Murica, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".

If I use the same logic, then citing the example that terrorist use religion, as the weapon to brainwash kids with in order to make suicide bombers.... Those terrorist shouldn't be blamed. The religion itself needs to be blamed.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think we can wrap this up now. Is alcohol bad for your health? I think most people know that it is, as I said, not many people would put it in the water bowls of their beloved pet dogs or horses. Beyond that though it is a matter of personal choice. If people want to drink whether within their limits or for that matter, to get absolutely hammered, they should be free to do so. They aren't children, I am sure they know what they are doing.

 

[Robert]

I think we can wrap this up now. Is alcohol bad for your health? I think most people know that it is, as I said, not many people would put it in the water bowls of their beloved pet dogs or horses. Beyond that though it is a matter of personal choice. If people want to drink whether within their limits or for that matter, to get absolutely hammered, they should be free to do so. They aren't children, I am sure they know what they are doing.

Plenty of people give their dog beer in pubs. Animals prefer it to water and drink until they pass out.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

You sound like a brain dead right wing republican nutter in Murica, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".

Actually I support gun control fully. Massive difference between a weapon that can kill in an instant intentionally or by accident and some liquid that, by itself, poses no danger unless its abused.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Plenty of people give their dog beer in pubs. Animals prefer it to water and drink until they pass out.

My late grandfather would be partial to a good whiskey every Sunday whenever he came to visit or we visited him. Would always pour some on the ground for his dog, who gladly lapped it up

Wouldn't advise pet owners to follow that example mind!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Plenty of people give their dog beer in pubs. Animals prefer it to water and drink until they pass out.

Wonder what they would call a quick drink to ease the next day hangover? Hair of the mog?

 

[uberkoen]

Thousands of Irish die due to alcohol related issues. Im sure they will be raising a glass of water in heaven.

Lovely how you pull out statistics our of nowhere.

Actually, I would say exactly where you're pulling those numbers out of but I don't want to get banned.

 

[majiz]

I’ve been what you might call a ‘binge drinker’ for the last 5 years or so. Not what you would call an alcoholic but somebody who really enjoys the effects of alcohol and finds it difficult to stop once he starts. Luckily I still look and feel pretty well but it’s definitely something I’ve been looking to curb recently as the hangovers are just so grim.

 

[Mamoon]

If I use the same logic, then citing the example that terrorist use religion, as the weapon to brainwash kids with in order to make suicide bombers.... Those terrorist shouldn't be blamed. The religion itself needs to be blamed.

That is a very good point which I'm sure will be ignored. Alcoholic runs someone over with his car - blame alcohol, some white terrorist kills people - blame gun laws, but a Muslim terrorist blows up people - don't blame religion, blame the people who interpret it incorrectly.

The convenience of this argument is hilarious.

 

[Robert]

Wonder what they would call a quick drink to ease the next day hangover? Hair of the mog?

)

 

[ElRaja]

I’ve been what you might call a ‘binge drinker’ for the last 5 years or so. Not what you would call an alcoholic but somebody who really enjoys the effects of alcohol and finds it difficult to stop once he starts. Luckily I still look and feel pretty well but it’s definitely something I’ve been looking to curb recently as the hangovers are just so grim.

what are you drinking? cheap grog is hellish the next day. also snacks and water, if ur in a pub, are your savior. number one cause of hangovers is dehydration shrinking your brain by drawing out water.

 

[majiz]

what are you drinking? cheap grog is hellish the next day. also snacks and water, if ur in a pub, are your savior. number one cause of hangovers is dehydration shrinking your brain by drawing out water.

beer mostly. i experience psychological hangovers rather than anything physical. So I feel depressed and anxious the day after drinking; dont think what I drink is going to make any difference here it’s simply alcohol withdrawal

 

[KingKhanWC]

true, but again, drivers fault, not alcohol. He made the choice to drive under the influence, nobody forced him, no excuse nowadays not to get a taxi or a lift.

I've stated myself the importance of knowing your limits and not being foolish. I have also said people need to take personal responsibility for things they do.

To blame drink driving solely on alcohol is just foolish. Its pure selfishness and ignorance on behalf of the driver, nothing more. Easy to blame the drink, harder to look inwards and take responsibility for your own decisions.

I blame the driver but if there was no alcohol there would be no such deaths. How hard is this to understand? Btw if alcohol is legal why not weed or cocaine?

Lovely how you pull out statistics our of nowhere.

Actually, I would say exactly where you're pulling those numbers out of but I don't want to get banned.

When you dont have the intelligence to challenge, of course you spout garbage.

 

[ElRaja]

beer mostly. i experience psychological hangovers rather than anything physical. So I feel depressed and anxious the day after drinking; dont think what I drink is going to make any difference here it’s simply alcohol withdrawal

ok, i cant stand beer. thats not a good sign tho, psychological withdrawal is very dangerous. think you on the right track to ween yourself off it. good luck.

 

[ElRaja]

I blame the driver but if there was no alcohol there would be no such deaths. How hard is this to understand? Btw if alcohol is legal why not weed or cocaine?

you shouldn't lump in weed with cocaine imo. weed is less harmful than alcohol imo. cocaine, esp in crack form is far, far worse than either.

also discussion of legality as a measure of supposed acceptability is very tenuous, some terrible drugs are prescribed to patients legally, as mood regulators, pain relievers, etc.

 

[uberkoen]

I blame the driver but if there was no alcohol there would be no such deaths. How hard is this to understand? Btw if alcohol is legal why not weed or cocaine?



When you dont have the intelligence to challenge, of course you spout garbage.

When you don't have facts to back up your statements. You make things up and pretend to be a know it all.

 

[uberkoen]

I blame the driver but if there was no alcohol there would be no such deaths. How hard is this to understand? Btw if alcohol is legal why not weed or cocaine?

lol. Can you please compare statistics of people who die due to road accidents without any intoxication and those that die due to some involvement of alcohol. Then ask yourself why do road accidents/deaths happen so often even when alcohol is not involved?

 

[Mamoon]

I blame the driver but if there was no alcohol there would be no such deaths.

“I blame the terrorist but if there was no religion there would be no such terrorism.”

Do you see the fallacy of your argument now?

 

[KingKhanWC]

you shouldn't lump in weed with cocaine imo. weed is less harmful than alcohol imo. cocaine, esp in crack form is far, far worse than either.

also discussion of legality as a measure of supposed acceptability is very tenuous, some terrible drugs are prescribed to patients legally, as mood regulators, pain relievers, etc.

Depends on the person, some people may smoke a joint and lose control which is why it's now you can be tested and banned for driving while under the influence.

When you don't have facts to back up your statements. You make things up and pretend to be a know it all.

lol. Can you please compare statistics of people who die due to road accidents without any intoxication and those that die due to some involvement of alcohol. Then ask yourself why do road accidents/deaths happen so often even when alcohol is not involved?

A simple search will tell you how many RTA are caused by drunk drivers. If they weren't drunk, it's highly unlikely these accidents would have occured. Not many drive onto footpaths and kill pedestrians. Try to make your own case if you are able instead of asking others to put foward their arguments. And I dont know you as a poster but it's nice you keep an eye on my posts. Good boy

 

[KingKhanWC]

“I blame the terrorist but if there was no religion there would be no such terrorism.”

Do you see the fallacy of your argument now?

No yours is a dumb comparison as with most of the nonsense you spout on here. Terrorism comes in many forms with many reasons. Most terrorism is due to political reasons not religion.

 

[Mamoon]

No yours is a dumb comparison as with most of the nonsense you spout on here. Terrorism comes in many forms with many reasons. Most terrorism is due to political reasons not religion.

Yes terrorism comes in many forms with many reasons, but terrorists who kill people in the name of religion use religion as their defense.

So if there was no religion, these particular terrorists would not kill people in the name of religion. Do you not agree?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yes terrorism comes in many forms with many reasons, but terrorists who kill people in the name of religion use religion as their defense.

So if there was no religion, these particular terrorists would not kill people in the name of religion. Do you not agree?

If there was no religion there would be some other reason for terrorism and as most are politically motivated, this is obivious. Some terrorists use religion to underline and justify their terrorism. Some terrorists as state terrorits such as USA, Israel and India who use foriegn policy to inflict terrorism on large populations.

Let'#s stick to alcohol. How much have you drank and what experiences have you had?

 

[Zhasan]

[MENTION=136108]Donal Cozzie[/MENTION] is quite correct. Alcohol does not make people drink-drive. Irresponsibility does.

Then you must be in favor of legalization of all classes of drugs and narcotics in addition to guns including automatic assault rifle and rocket launchers.

 

[Robert]

I blame the driver but if there was no alcohol there would be no such deaths. How hard is this to understand? Btw if alcohol is legal why not weed or cocaine?

Most deaths on the roads don’t involve alcohol. Sober people are quite capable of driving too fast and taking silly risks.

Alcohol is allowed because Prohibition failed so totally in the US. Other drugs could be legalised and made taxable too.

 

[Robert]

Then you must be in favor of legalization of all classes of drugs and narcotics in addition to guns including automatic assault rifle and rocket launchers.

Drugs and narcotics - yes I am. Make it a problem for health care not criminal justice.

Military weapons - no because there is no need for citizens to have these. I think that U.K. gun laws are probably too strict. 100,000 shooters held handguns until that nutter in Dunblane.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Most deaths on the roads don’t involve alcohol. Sober people are quite capable of driving too fast and taking silly risks.

Alcohol is allowed because Prohibition failed so totally in the US. Other drugs could be legalised and made taxable too.

lol Who cares about the US? There are many other places in the world where it's banned and not really an issue. Of course some will get it illegally as they do with anything.

Drink driving is a major issue in the UK for a good reason. I think it's fair to say the government also knows the obvious which you seem to have pointed out for some strange reason. Perhaps you should email the government advisors and take a look at this from an expert.

Alcohol 'more harmful than heroin' says Prof David Nutt

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

 

[Robert]

lol Who cares about the US? There are many other places in the world where it's banned and not really an issue. Of course some will get it illegally as they do with anything.

Drink driving is a major issue in the UK for a good reason. I think it's fair to say the government also knows the obvious which you seem to have pointed out for some strange reason. Perhaps you should email the government advisors and take a look at this from an expert.

Every Western Government cares about Prohibition because they all saw what happened when a Western Government banned alcohol.

Drink driving is criminally irresponsible. Moderate drinking and not driving is fine because nobody gets hurt. The number of UK drink-drivers has fallen massively in the last few decades.

 

[ElRaja]

Depends on the person, some people may smoke a joint and lose control which is why it's now you can be tested and banned for driving while under the influence.

depends on if by lose control you mean get super lazy and hungry. chances are unless its a McD's said person would pbly rather smoke than go out, lol.

driving under the influence of any drug is wrong, that's why a lot of prescription meds come with specific instructions to not drive while under their influence, its not the drug which is the problem, its the responsibility of operating a 2 tonne projectile when you know that you shouldn't.

laws pertaining to driving under the influence of any substance should be punished even more harshly than they are now.

Every Western Government cares about Prohibition because they all saw what happened when a Western Government banned alcohol.

Drink driving is criminally irresponsible. Moderate drinking and not driving is fine because nobody gets hurt. The number of UK drink-drivers has fallen massively in the last few decades.

i've seen stats that show tobacco and alcohol consumption has fallen considerably among the current youth, think sitting at home surfing facebook, online gaming and watching hd porn is more prevalent than forms of social mischief.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Every Western Government cares about Prohibition because they all saw what happened when a Western Government banned alcohol.

Drink driving is criminally irresponsible. Moderate drinking and not driving is fine because nobody gets hurt. The number of UK drink-drivers has fallen massively in the last few decades.

depends on if by lose control you mean get super lazy and hungry. chances are unless its a McD's said person would pbly rather smoke than go out, lol.

driving under the influence of any drug is wrong, that's why a lot of prescription meds come with specific instructions to not drive while under their influence, its not the drug which is the problem, its the responsibility of operating a 2 tonne projectile when you know that you shouldn't.

laws pertaining to driving under the influence of any substance should be punished even more harshly than they are now.



i've seen stats that show tobacco and alcohol consumption has fallen considerably among the current youth, think sitting at home surfing facebook, online gaming and watching hd porn is more prevalent than forms of social mischief.

I will just point you to the link I posted. Prof Nutt research was very high standard and detailed. Please read his reports on alcohol.

I have nothing further to add because he is spot on.

 

[Mamoon]

If there was no religion there would be some other reason for terrorism and as most are politically motivated, this is obivious. Some terrorists use religion to underline and justify their terrorism. Some terrorists as state terrorits such as USA, Israel and India who use foriegn policy to inflict terrorism on large populations.

Let'#s stick to alcohol. How much have you drank and what experiences have you had?

But if there was no religion, they wouldn't have used it to justify killing people, and it is not necessary that the same people would have found another reason to kill people. They are brainwashed in the name of religion from a very early age. Why are you so hesitant to blame religion for religious terrorism, when you have no hesitation in blaming alcohol for the actions of the drunkards?

I personally don't drink. In fact, I have never had alcohol at all. I do have social drinkers in my family though, and they haven't killed anyone yet or misbehaved because they were tipsy. If you drink in moderation, eat healthy and exercise, it is not going to harm you anymore than eating unhealthy food.

 

[Itachi]

As i see it, people hold different standards while justifying cause depending upon what suits them and then paints a delusional world. It is sad if they hold the same viewpoint in reality because i can assure you, their family and kids will suffer A LOT if they are driven by this same thought process in day to day life too.

 

[Technics 1210]

But if there was no religion, they wouldn't have used it to justify killing people, and it is not necessary that the same people would have found another reason to kill people. They are brainwashed in the name of religion from a very early age. Why are you so hesitant to blame religion for religious terrorism, when you have no hesitation in blaming alcohol for the actions of the drunkards?

Happy hour already?

IRA just proves your post wrong.

Not all terrorism is related to religion.

 

[Technics 1210]

More people die from Alcohol and Smoking in the UK than any other cause, and these are legal and taxed to the hilt.

Think about it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But if there was no religion, they wouldn't have used it to justify killing people, and it is not necessary that the same people would have found another reason to kill people. They are brainwashed in the name of religion from a very early age. Why are you so hesitant to blame religion for religious terrorism, when you have no hesitation in blaming alcohol for the actions of the drunkards?

I personally don't drink. In fact, I have never had alcohol at all. I do have social drinkers in my family though, and they haven't killed anyone yet or misbehaved because they were tipsy. If you drink in moderation, eat healthy and exercise, it is not going to harm you anymore than eating unhealthy food.

If you take anything in moderation it is not going to harm you. I'm sure if you took crack cocaine at a small dosage only once every so often then it should be perfectly safe. I see a day not to far off when we westerners will be able to buy drugs legally and use them as we see fit. No more sneaking off to the bathroom to snort a line, we would be able to do so openly just as if we were passing round a bottle of wine.

* I don't mean me personally, when I say we westerners, I am speaking on behalf of my society which is majority non-Muslim.

 

[Robert]

Happy hour already?

IRA just proves your post wrong.

Not all terrorism is related to religion.

Religion is closely tied to sectarian violence (by definition) in NI, has been ever since Cromwell’s Settlement Act 1652 and arguably back to Henry VIII. Help me out here [MENTION=136108]Donal Cozzie[/MENTION] ?

 

[Itachi]

Happy hour already?

IRA just proves your post wrong.

Not all terrorism is related to religion.

Not all road accidents are related to alcohol. So what's the point here?

 

[Mamoon]

Happy hour already?

IRA just proves your post wrong.

Not all terrorism is related to religion.

Your problem is that you don’t read posts carefully and only pick up what you want to read.

If you follow my posts in this thread, it won’t take you long to notice that I have already agreed that not all terrorism is religiously motivated.

However, my point is that if we are blaming alcohol for the behavior of drunk people, we should also blame religion for religious motivated terrorism.

 

[Mamoon]

If you take anything in moderation it is not going to harm you. I'm sure if you took crack cocaine at a small dosage only once every so often then it should be perfectly safe. I see a day not to far off when we westerners will be able to buy drugs legally and use them as we see fit. No more sneaking off to the bathroom to snort a line, we would be able to do so openly just as if we were passing round a bottle of wine.

* I don't mean me personally, when I say we westerners, I am speaking on behalf of my society which is majority non-Muslim.

I agree, which is why marijuana will soon be legalized globally except for Muslim countries. Cocaine though is different because it is almost impossible to be a moderate snorter.

It is pretty inevitable that you will end up addicted at some point, which is not the case with marijuana and alcohol.

 

[WC-Passion]

The daily fast food diet causes liver cirrhosis no matter how much you exercise.

What are you calling “drinking excessively”? A few pints on Saturday nights alone never hurt me - drinking several nights a week will start to cause damage.

That's not a fair comparison really though is it? You can't compare eating fries, burgers and pizzas etc daily to a few pints on the weekend. Obviously quantity plays a part but if you remove that from the equation, alcohol will overall do more irreversibly damage to you than fast food.

 

[slipcatch]

Alcohol lover are upset at this study.

Religious people (mostly Muslims) are pointing out another reason not to drink, not that they need to if you are muslims.

Atheist are upset because Muslims are saying "we told you"

Then there are few who are comparing drinking Alcohol with food. Haven't we already established that being fat and eating wrong kind of fats is bad, remember high rate of heart disease in all over the world?

Then there is always the one who tried bring outrageous comparison as long as it make them look like wrist slitter.

But everyone keep forgetting, this study was done to find out if any amount of Alcohol is bad for you, which they did and published, just like many other studies, such as, eating unhealthy food is bad for you and will kill you slowly.

You can defend your drinking but stop being stupid about it.

I thought most of y'all only wanted and believe in science and scientific data.

 

[Bosanquet]

Alcohol lover are upset at this study.

Religious people (mostly Muslims) are pointing out another reason not to drink, not that they need to if you are muslims.

Atheist are upset because Muslims are saying "we told you"

Then there are few who are comparing drinking Alcohol with food. Haven't we already established that being fat and eating wrong kind of fats is bad, remember high rate of heart disease in all over the world?

Then there is always the one who tried bring outrageous comparison as long as it make them look like wrist slitter.

But everyone keep forgetting, this study was done to find out if any amount of Alcohol is bad for you, which they did and published, just like many other studies, such as, eating unhealthy food is bad for you and will kill you slowly.

You can defend your drinking but stop being stupid about it.

I thought most of y'all only wanted and believe in science and scientific data.

FINALLY someone returns to the actual study!
As I stated in a much earlier post, the study is NOT particularly interesting for at least 2 reasons:-

A) It was conducted in orientals; no caucasians, africans, sub-continentals etc

B) It just demonstrated a small but statistically significant higher rate of stroke amongst moderate drinkers - BUT NO RISE IN HEART ATTACKS OR TOTAL DEATHS.
Hence quite boring.

However, it is fascinating & hilarious to read how much moralising has been spun on the back of this fairly mediocre study.

 

[Itachi]

Alcohol lover are upset at this study.

Religious people (mostly Muslims) are pointing out another reason not to drink, not that they need to if you are muslims.

Atheist are upset because Muslims are saying "we told you"

Then there are few who are comparing drinking Alcohol with food. Haven't we already established that being fat and eating wrong kind of fats is bad, remember high rate of heart disease in all over the world?

Then there is always the one who tried bring outrageous comparison as long as it make them look like wrist slitter.

But everyone keep forgetting, this study was done to find out if any amount of Alcohol is bad for you, which they did and published, just like many other studies, such as, eating unhealthy food is bad for you and will kill you slowly.

You can defend your drinking but stop being stupid about it.

I thought most of y'all only wanted and believe in science and scientific data.

... And then there are those pseudo intellectuals who fails to grasp the fact that, this experiment has its own flaws due to which results are skewed. People are not being stupid about it.

People are asking questions. That's the first step of scientific thought process.

 

[slipcatch]

... And then there are those pseudo intellectuals who fails to grasp the fact that, this experiment has its own flaws due to which results are skewed. People are not being stupid about it.

People are asking questions. That's the first step of scientific thought process.

I’m sure more studies will be done related to this topic.

If the results are the same then those who like to drink will try to find a flaw.

If a Muslim were to say, told you so, then atheist and those who aren’t Muslim will try to find a flaw.

Ironically those who vehemently promote science will discredit it because they want to continue to drink.

No one has stop anyone from asking question, it’s just, when people ask stupid questions in trying to defend their pint of alcohol.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I agree, which is why marijuana will soon be legalized globally except for Muslim countries. Cocaine though is different because it is almost impossible to be a moderate snorter.

It is pretty inevitable that you will end up addicted at some point, which is not the case with marijuana and alcohol.

You don't have to snort cocaine, you could just apply a small amount to your tongue once in a while, the people who snort it are ones who are looking for a quick hit. Microdosing of previously taboo drugs is coming into fashion now as it happens, LSD is the one which is currently finding favour. Remember, we are using the same analogy you used, where we say it is not the substance/religion, but the individual who is prone to addiction/violence.

 

[uberkoen]

For every such study, there's probably another 10 that counter it

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-...-healthy-eating/in-depth/alcohol/art-20044551

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutrit.../alcohol-full-story/#possible_health_benefits

 

[Itachi]

I’m sure more studies will be done related to this topic.

If the results are the same then those who like to drink will try to find a flaw.

If a Muslim were to say, told you so, then atheist and those who aren’t Muslim will try to find a flaw.

Ironically those who vehemently promote science will discredit it because they want to continue to drink.

No one has stop anyone from asking question, it’s just, when people ask stupid questions in trying to defend their pint of alcohol.

OK. Let's get down to the technical aspect then. I asked a simple question at the beginning of the thread.

If you are carrying out an experiment for a factor, then you will have to isolate that system so that other factors don't manipulate the outcome. Is it happened in this case?

The other factors may include stress (one of the major factor of stroke). Was there stress regulated?

 

[Mamoon]

You don't have to snort cocaine, you could just apply a small amount to your tongue once in a while, the people who snort it are ones who are looking for a quick hit. Microdosing of previously taboo drugs is coming into fashion now as it happens, LSD is the one which is currently finding favour. Remember, we are using the same analogy you used, where we say it is not the substance/religion, but the individual who is prone to addiction/violence.

Some substances/drugs are an exception to the rule because they are highly unlikely to be used in moderation. It doesn’t take long before micro-dosing turns macro-dosing.

Alcohol however doesn’t fall into that category. Only a small percentage of drinkers are a threat to the society. Most people are social drinkers who hit the pubs on the weekends.

 

[Itachi]

You don't have to snort cocaine, you could just apply a small amount to your tongue once in a while, the people who snort it are ones who are looking for a quick hit. Microdosing of previously taboo drugs is coming into fashion now as it happens, LSD is the one which is currently finding favour. Remember, we are using the same analogy you used, where we say it is not the substance/religion, but the individual who is prone to addiction/violence.

You can't use the same analogue for a simple reason. The type of people that you've mentioned who are prone to addict are searching for euphoria. Alcohol doesn't fit this bill. If you know any drug user, ask him if he consumes alcohol.

Alcohol doesnt bring the same feeling. The anti depressant meds have much potent effect than alcohol.

So comparison of addiction to drugs and alcohol has huge difference.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Some substances/drugs are an exception to the rule because they are highly unlikely to be used in moderation. It doesn’t take long before micro-dosing turns macro-dosing.

Alcohol however doesn’t fall into that category. Only a small percentage of drinkers are a threat to the society. Most people are social drinkers who hit the pubs on the weekends.

I think you and Itachi don't speak from experience as you are both based in the subcontinent where there is less of a drink culture due to a long period of anti-drug education. In Britain there is far more violence and accidents caused by alcohol than cocaine. Sometimes a combination of the two. Try getting to an A&E department at any hospital on a Friday or Saturday night if you think different.

Even holiday resorts in Europe are now trying to clamp down on Brits abroad with their heavy drinking culture, as they disturb the tranquillity of local towns with their rowdy and lewd antics.

Not that I consider any of this necessarily bad, alcohol brings plenty of trade and other benefits, but we seem to be getting away from the health aspect which is what the OP was concerned with. Personally the only opposition I have to anyone drinking is that my tax money doesn't go towards their treatment. If drinkers could pay a small fee for private medical insurance it would be a win win all round.

 

[Bosanquet]

I think you and Itachi don't speak from experience as you are both based in the subcontinent where there is less of a drink culture due to a long period of anti-drug education. In Britain there is far more violence and accidents caused by alcohol than cocaine. Sometimes a combination of the two. Try getting to an A&E department at any hospital on a Friday or Saturday night if you think different.

Even holiday resorts in Europe are now trying to clamp down on Brits abroad with their heavy drinking culture, as they disturb the tranquillity of local towns with their rowdy and lewd antics.

Not that I consider any of this necessarily bad, alcohol brings plenty of trade and other benefits, but we seem to be getting away from the health aspect which is what the OP was concerned with. Personally the only opposition I have to anyone drinking is that my tax money doesn't go towards their treatment. If drinkers could pay a small fee for private medical insurance it would be a win win all round.

The exchequer made more than £20 billion in taxes on alcohol & tobacco (which you, personally, probably did not contribute to) in fiscal 2018. If they earmarked even 30% of this sum as additional funding towards the NHS (on top of it's existing £114 billion budget) there would be no strain at all on our services & would easily take care of the "additional work" caused by the effect of these addictions/behaviours/vices/normal social interactions (choose your preferred term here). So you see Cap the user/abuser would end up paying for their actions.
But you are right about the scenes in A&E on friday nights in particular. Add to that the violence, both verbal & physical directed towards the healthcare personnel themselves, especially if they are of a different pigmentation to the majority community.

 

[slipcatch]

OK. Let's get down to the technical aspect then. I asked a simple question at the beginning of the thread.

If you are carrying out an experiment for a factor, then you will have to isolate that system so that other factors don't manipulate the outcome. Is it happened in this case?

The other factors may include stress (one of the major factor of stroke). Was there stress regulated?

Like I have said earlier in my comments, those who love to drink would try their hard to find any flaw to discredit this study.

You can't find a single person on this planet who isn't stress about something.

Soon the fat people who suffer from stroke would be blaming only stress not junk food.

Those who wants to drink will continue to drink despite any study stating that Alcohol is harmful for a person.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The exchequer made more than £20 billion in taxes on alcohol & tobacco (which you, personally, probably did not contribute to) in fiscal 2018. If they earmarked even 30% of this sum as additional funding towards the NHS (on top of it's existing £114 billion budget) there would be no strain at all on our services & would easily take care of the "additional work" caused by the effect of these addictions/behaviours/vices/normal social interactions (choose your preferred term here). So you see Cap the user/abuser would end up paying for their actions.
But you are right about the scenes in A&E on friday nights in particular. Add to that the violence, both verbal & physical directed towards the healthcare personnel themselves, especially if they are of a different pigmentation to the majority community.

Agreed, I did say there was benefits to be had from alcohol, not just taxation but tourism as well, but of course that has it's downsides.

It's unfortunate some health staff come in for drunken abuse at A&E depts, but we have a doctor on this thread who would probably share the sentiments of drunken yobbos so perhaps he would deserve it were he on the receiving end.

"Yes! Yes! Mr Boggins" he would cry. " We are indeed a bunch of leeching ________'s!"

 

[The_Odd_One]

You can burn the fat that would block your arteries if you exercise enough once you've ate. You can't exactly do the same to prevent damage with Alcohol. It's quite obvious and I have no idea how people don't understand this.

Why are you making this assumption that everyone will exercise enough to burn the fat gained through eating fast food? Do you even know how much workout will it take to undo one meal which had a cheese burger, french fries, and soda?

 

[The_Odd_One]

People who have never tried alcohol do not really understand what they are missing in their life, neither do they know how drinking works.

Everybody who drinks is not an alcoholic, neither are they killing their body. Alcohol just makes everything more fun, be it sports, social gatherings, meals, or some quality alone time. Some of the most successful people I have met love drinking. Obviously, there is a time and place for everything. Also, one must know their body limits. Some people have higher tolerance for alcohol, some throw up after their second drink. Just know your limitations and drink responsibly.

 

[WC-Passion]

Why are you making this assumption that everyone will exercise enough to burn the fat gained through eating fast food? Do you even know how much workout will it take to undo one meal which had a cheese burger, french fries, and soda?

Yes I do, it takes quite a lot of effort to burn off a big mac, for example. I've done this several times in the gym and after doing so, you want to avoid McDonalds even more so than before. But your argument makes no sense against my point, you're saying that why assume someone would fix the issue with my given solution, while alcohol on the other hand, has no given solution to fix the issues it causes. Difficultly shouldn't be a factor here.

Saying people are too lazy to exercise doesn't make fast food worse than alcohol. I say this because in the case of fast food, there's an option there to stop damage caused, unlike alcohol where the only option is to stop drinking if you want to stop the damage caused.

 

[James]

Junk food - whilst not good for your body particularly if eaten every day - at least will convert into calories and keep you alive. You will gain weight over time and will be at a higher than usual risk of developing diabetes, heart disease or a fatty liver; but these prospects are all manageable and ultimately reversible with the correct lifestyle changes.

And even then, when you have improved your diet, you will still be able to enjoy your fix of junk food once or twice a week with close to zero negative effects. (This would contrast heavily with binge drinking, wherein one banging night out per week can still pose a significant risk to one’s health.)

Junk food will also not cause you to lose your grip on reality, be unable to drive a car, cause social disorder and offence, make significant decisions impulsively, get an unintended criminal record, find yourself drawn into a potentially dangerous street fight, potentially put your life in immediate jeopardy or put the lives of others at risk....etc. Also some of the physical, mental, emotional, interpersonal and financial impacts of alcohol are difficult to reverse.

Junk food is more in the “naughty” category when directly compared with alcohol, which is a positively evil and poisonous substance that frequently ruins and takes lives.

Anyone who has not yet given up or at least not even reduced their intake - please try it.

 

[barah_admi]

Junk food - whilst not good for your body particularly if eaten every day - at least will convert into calories and keep you alive. You will gain weight over time and will be at a higher than usual risk of developing diabetes, heart disease or a fatty liver; but these prospects are all manageable and ultimately reversible with the correct lifestyle changes.

And even then, when you have improved your diet, you will still be able to enjoy your fix of junk food once or twice a week with close to zero negative effects. (This would contrast heavily with binge drinking, wherein one banging night out per week can still pose a significant risk to one’s health.)

Junk food will also not cause you to lose your grip on reality, be unable to drive a car, cause social disorder and offence, make significant decisions impulsively, get an unintended criminal record, find yourself drawn into a potentially dangerous street fight, potentially put your life in immediate jeopardy or put the lives of others at risk....etc. Also some of the physical, mental, emotional, interpersonal and financial impacts of alcohol are difficult to reverse.

Junk food is more in the “naughty” category when directly compared with alcohol, which is a positively evil and poisonous substance that frequently ruins and takes lives.

Anyone who has not yet given up or at least not even reduced their intake - please try it.

Very good post right here

I am surprised the thread is still going where some posters here who claim to be men of science are now arguing beyond scientific points and rejecting medical evidence.

Lord have mercy on the stupid.

 

[Itachi]

Very good post right here

I am surprised the thread is still going where some posters here who claim to be men of science are now arguing beyond scientific points and rejecting medical evidence.

Lord have mercy on the stupid.

The two aspects on the post you quoted.

Its controlled intake of junk food vs binge drinking.

But the subject of the thread is moderate drinking which is totally different from binge drinking.

Sometimes, even reading the thread title helps a lot.

 

[James]

What is moderate drinking?

People tend to define moderate drinking as 1-2 glasses of wine or 2-3 bottles of beer every evening, and maybe a whisky at the weekend - but this in its nature is still habitual. My view is that such daily tipples eventually constitute their own sort of dependence.

Alcoholism is defined by dependence. Whether that is a culturally accepted and “moderate” evening dependence; an “unwind from the working week” binge drinking dependence; or a full blown 24/7 dependence - it is always still a dependence.

Obviously each aforementioned dependence poses different levels of short & long term consequences and risks, but the common factor is that these consequences and risks are always negative. They are never positive.

 

[Itachi]

What is moderate drinking?

People tend to define moderate drinking as 1-2 glasses of wine or 2-3 bottles of beer every evening, and maybe a whisky at the weekend - but this in its nature is still habitual. My view is that such daily tipples eventually constitute their own sort of dependence.

Alcoholism is defined by dependence. Whether that is a culturally accepted and “moderate” evening dependence; an “unwind from the working week” binge drinking dependence; or a full blown 24/7 dependence - it is always still a dependence.

Obviously each aforementioned dependence poses different levels of short & long term consequences and risks, but the common factor is that these consequences and risks are always negative. They are never positive.

So... Junk food addiction has no dependence yet alcohol has addiction which has dependence.

Whether it from medical point of view or just common sense, I disagree to everything you wrote above. But you've came to the discussion with a pre settled judgement. So I guess we can just agree to disagree.

 

[Technics 1210]

I agree, which is why marijuana will soon be legalized globally except for Muslim countries. Cocaine though is different because it is almost impossible to be a moderate snorter.

It is pretty inevitable that you will end up addicted at some point, which is not the case with marijuana and alcohol.

Marijuana will soon be legalized globally? Define soon.

As always you take a snipe at Islamic countries and Muslims, so I suggest you read up on how Singapore will soon legalize cannabis for medicinal use.

The legalization of Marijuana falls into 2 categories, recreational, and medicinal - and global legalization of Marijuana for recreational purposes is not happening for live nor money.

You are a doctor, and you should know the distinction instead of relying on headlines.

 

[barah_admi]

The two aspects on the post you quoted.

Its controlled intake of junk food vs binge drinking.

But the subject of the thread is moderate drinking which is totally different from binge drinking.

Sometimes, even reading the thread title helps a lot.

Itachi...you sound familiar, haven't I debunked your rubbish a million times over?

And as I have repeated, scientific studies have now proven there isn o such thing as moderate drinking because all alcohol consumption causes damage. If you have a better study then I wait with baited breath to read it in the Lancet Medical Journal.

 

[James]

Cannabis for medical use only should be legalised, immediately and globally. Cannaboids hold several strong medicinal benefits for some historically difficult-to-manage conditions. Plus the intake can be controlled by doctors and pharmacists.

Cannabis for recreational use is not as behaviourally unpredictable, socially destructive, personally harmful and generally chaotic a drug as alcohol, but there are still risks to an individual’s physical and mental health linked to long-term, sustained and frequent use, so I would leave recreational cannabis banned for now.

 

[KingKhanWC]

People who have never tried alcohol do not really understand what they are missing in their life, neither do they know how drinking works.

Everybody who drinks is not an alcoholic, neither are they killing their body. Alcohol just makes everything more fun, be it sports, social gatherings, meals, or some quality alone time. Some of the most successful people I have met love drinking. Obviously, there is a time and place for everything. Also, one must know their body limits. Some people have higher tolerance for alcohol, some throw up after their second drink. Just know your limitations and drink responsibly.

lol No it doesnt. If you need your mind altrered to have fun, you have some issues either mental, social or lack of confidence/intelligence.

 

[Robert]

lol No it doesnt. If you need your mind altrered to have fun, you have some issues either mental, social or lack of confidence/intelligence.

How would you know?

I have drunk alcohol and yes, things can become more fun as long as you know your limits. I would never drink alone, though. Alcohol is a good servant, bad master....

 

[The_Odd_One]

Yes I do, it takes quite a lot of effort to burn off a big mac, for example. I've done this several times in the gym and after doing so, you want to avoid McDonalds even more so than before. But your argument makes no sense against my point, you're saying that why assume someone would fix the issue with my given solution, while alcohol on the other hand, has no given solution to fix the issues it causes. Difficultly shouldn't be a factor here.

Saying people are too lazy to exercise doesn't make fast food worse than alcohol. I say this because in the case of fast food, there's an option there to stop damage caused, unlike alcohol where the only option is to stop drinking if you want to stop the damage caused.

Your solution is useless because majority of the people do not hit the gym after consuming a big mac. A person eating a big mac every day is as likely to die early than a person drinking a glass of wine every day.

 

[KingKhanWC]

How would you know?

I have drunk alcohol and yes, things can become more fun as long as you know your limits. I would never drink alone, though. Alcohol is a good servant, bad master....

Not talking about myself but do you think those who never drink in many cultures around the world have less fun than those that do? Is there some sort of scientific study you have read? Unless you can prove this it's your opinion based on not much.

 

[The_Odd_One]

lol No it doesnt. If you need your mind altrered to have fun, you have some issues either mental, social or lack of confidence/intelligence.

Are not parties more fun when there are snacks?

I guess almost all of the successful CEOs, actors, sportsmen, artists, etc. have mental issues or lack of confidence/intelligence just because someone who does not drink said so.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Are not parties more fun when there are snacks?

I guess almost all of the successful CEOs, actors, sportsmen, artists, etc. have mental issues or lack of confidence/intelligence just because someone who does not drink said so.

Not for me, I try to stay away from snacks as I have a goal at the gym. To have fun all you need is a sense of humour.

Those CEO's or actors etc may have fun with or without alcohol. I was referring to your foolish suggestion alcohol means more fun as you were implying those who dont drink somehow have less fun. Use some common sense pal, but I guess when your only motvie in life or to post is to put down religion esp a religion which is against alcohol, coming up with stupid ideas will be normal.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Not for me, I try to stay away from snacks as I have a goal at the gym. To have fun all you need is a sense of humour.

Those CEO's or actors etc may have fun with or without alcohol. I was referring to your foolish suggestion alcohol means more fun as you were implying those who dont drink somehow have less fun. Use some common sense pal, but I guess when your only motvie in life or to post is to put down religion esp a religion which is against alcohol, coming up with stupid ideas will be normal.

Is your statement backed by anything? Mine is from alcohol sales in concerts, sports events, fairs/carnivals, etc. Why do you think we have these sayings like cookie and milk go together? You can still enjoy a cookie but having it with milk makes it more fun.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Is your statement backed by anything? Mine is from alcohol sales in concerts, sports events, fairs/carnivals, etc. Why do you think we have these sayings like cookie and milk go together? You can still enjoy a cookie but having it with milk makes it more fun.

It depends if you like milk. My view is one of common sense, children have fun and I dont know of many kids which are given alcohol. To laugh , joke, be happy doesn't require ones mind to be altered by an intoxicent, if it does they are weak. If they have fun anyway and then want to be out of their mind, as they find it funny, thats a fair point. But to say drinking means more fun is idiotic.

 

[The_Odd_One]

It depends if you like milk. My view is one of common sense, children have fun and I dont know of many kids which are given alcohol. To laugh , joke, be happy doesn't require ones mind to be altered by an intoxicent, if it does they are weak. If they have fun anyway and then want to be out of their mind, as they find it funny, thats a fair point. But to say drinking means more fun is idiotic.

Not sure why you do not understand a simple distinction between good and better.

Burger tastes good but it tastes better with cheese.
French fries tastes good but they taste better with ketchup.
Visiting a place alone feels good but doing it with family/friends makes it a better experience.
Watching a movie feels good watching it in HD on a bigger screen makes it better.

Similarly, sports, social gatherings, meals, etc. all feel good but alcohol makes them even better.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Not sure why you do not understand a simple distinction between good and better.

Burger tastes good but it tastes better with cheese.
French fries tastes good but they taste better with ketchup.
Visiting a place alone feels good but doing it with family/friends makes it a better experience.
Watching a movie feels good watching it in HD on a bigger screen makes it better.

Similarly, sports, social gatherings, meals, etc. all feel good but alcohol makes them even better.

Not everybody likes cheese, this is what you dont understand. Not everyone like the taste of alcohol and everybody who drinks have more fun, some get depressed or feel negative/sad. Please only speak for youself not the rest of humanity.