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Man denied German citizenship for refusing to shake woman's hand

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A German court ruled on Friday that a Muslim man who refused to shake the hand of a woman should not receive German citizenship.

The 40-year-old Lebanese doctor, who came to Germany in 2002, said he refuses to shake women's hands for religious reasons.

The Administrative Court of Baden-Württemberg (VGH) ruled that someone who rejects a handshake due to a "fundamentalist conception of culture and values" because they see women as "a danger of sexual temptation" was thereby rejecting "integration into German living conditions."

Promise to his wife

The doctor studied medicine in Germany and now works as a senior physician in a clinic. He applied for citizenship through naturalization in 2012, for which he signed a declaration of loyalty to the German constitution and against extremism. He passed the naturalization test with the best possible score.

Read more: Denmark's handshake law for new citizens is 'un-Danish'

Nevertheless, he was not granted citizenship because he refused to shake hands with the responsible official when the naturalization certificate was handed over in 2015. The woman therefore withheld the certificate and rejected the application.

He argued that he had promised his wife not to shake hands with another woman.

His petition against the ruling was unsuccessful before the Stuttgart Administrative Court and he appealed to the VGH. Following its decision Saturday, the court said that the man can appeal to the Federal Administrative Court due to the fundamental significance of the case.

The VGH described a handshake as a common nonverbal greeting and farewell ritual, which are independent of the sex of the involved parties, adding that the practice goes back centuries.

The judge found that the handshake also has a legal meaning, in that it symbolizes the conclusion of a contract.

The handshake is therefore "deeply rooted in social, cultural and legal life, which shapes the way we live together," the judge said.

It's one of the most widespread greetings in the business world. But will the traditional handshake go out of style? Health experts recommend avoiding it to reduce the risk of contracting the coronarvirus. Germany's interior minister took that advice seriously and refused to shake Chancellor Angela Merkel's hand. They both laughed and Merkel threw her hand up in the air before taking a seat.

The court found that anyone who refuses to shake hands on gender-specific grounds is in breach of the equality enshrined in the German constitution.

Read more: Religion no justification for not shaking teacher's hand, Swiss authorities rule

In addition, the man's refusal in this case had the effect of lending validity to a "Salafist perspective" on the social ramifications of relations between men and women.

The court said that it made no difference that the man has now declared he will not shake hands with men either.

The man claimed he wanted to affirm the equality of men and women, but the court found that this was merely a tactical move.

The handshake ruling was also handed down despite health officials cautioning against handshaking right now due to the coronavirus pandemic. The judge said he was convinced that the practice would survive the pandemic.

https://www.dw.com/en/man-denied-german-citizenship-for-refusing-to-shake-womans-hand/a-55311947
 
If his beliefs are that strong in this regard then he should have no issue paying the price. Probably should leave Germany and go back home or to another country willing to accept this.
 
Shouldn’t be shaking hands with COVID around anyways. Or is this news old?

From the article:
The court said that it made no difference that the man has now declared he will not shake hands with men either.

Seems like he doesn’t care about gender.
 
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The man refused to shake hand with a person because she was a woman and he promised his wife not to shake hands with woman.

Gender equality law kicks in.

He was denied.

I don't see anything wrong with it. Getting Citizenship isn't a right.
 
Lol the judge was convinced? Is he a mind reader? I guess Muslims don’t have the luxury of taking precautions in the middle of a pandemic.

It has nothing to do with the pandemic. But it would have served the doctor well if he had made it about the pandemic rather than saying he’s not doing it cuz of wife and religion
 
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What a comedian.

Back to Beirut you go.
 
should have just said said due to pandemic. why all the fuss. I am sure he will apeal
 
So this guy is a doctor who will be required to touch womens hands all the time but he wont shake hands with them. A bit strange.
 
:))
[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] summed it up perfectly.

If you believe in that strongly, you deserve to accept the consequences too.

People are sick and tired of all this drama.

If you can't integrate with a basic gesture like a handshake, then what are you doing in Germany?

Feel sorry for him on one level but totally understand the decision on another.

100 more cases and people will get in line.
 
So this guy is a doctor who will be required to touch womens hands all the time but he wont shake hands with them. A bit strange.

Came here to say this. There's no way he's gone through medical training in Germany without having physically examined multiple female patients, which most of the time involves far greater touching than a handshake :))
 
Came here to say this. There's no way he's gone through medical training in Germany without having physically examined multiple female patients, which most of the time involves far greater touching than a handshake :))

I believe he is allowed to touch anyone while rendering services as a doctor.
 
If his beliefs are that strong in this regard then he should have no issue paying the price. Probably should leave Germany and go back home or to another country willing to accept this.

This sums it up. If he truly believes what he did was right then it shouldnt matter.

But like i said in another thread, the liberal west is becoming what it claims to oppose.
 
This sums it up. If he truly believes what he did was right then it shouldnt matter.

But like i said in another thread, the liberal west is becoming what it claims to oppose.

What a stupid post. The liberal west has allowed thousands, hundreds of thousands of this guy's ilk in Germany. As a doctor if someone is willing to refuse a woman's hand it's a terrible impression. One day the same guy can refuse to treat a woman based on the fact he is unwilling to touch one. And even now he's being allowed to stay in the country just like anyone else. Nationality or citizenship isn't a right it's a privilege. Only in the west we can get it.

If not for the liberal west millions of us leading happy productive lives would instead be sent back to where we came from.
 
What a stupid post. The liberal west has allowed thousands, hundreds of thousands of this guy's ilk in Germany. As a doctor if someone is willing to refuse a woman's hand it's a terrible impression. One day the same guy can refuse to treat a woman based on the fact he is unwilling to touch one. And even now he's being allowed to stay in the country just like anyone else. Nationality or citizenship isn't a right it's a privilege. Only in the west we can get it.

If not for the liberal west millions of us leading happy productive lives would instead be sent back to where we came from.

Conservative folks usually have higher expectations from the liberal West.
 
This sums it up. If he truly believes what he did was right then it shouldnt matter.

But like i said in another thread, the liberal west is becoming what it claims to oppose.

Also to add, in the west we can speak freely. I can go and curse the government without fear. My mum can don a hijab without fear and my other relatives can be who they are without fear. In the UK the small minority of Isis mentality Islamic groups hold rallies openly when they can. The west is still what it claims to be, tolerant. France despite its anti Islamic rhetoric has millions of Muslims. And thousands of French Muslims who can go curse Macron without fear of imprisonment.

A very poor post from a good poster. Sad to see
 
What a stupid post. The liberal west has allowed thousands, hundreds of thousands of this guy's ilk in Germany. As a doctor if someone is willing to refuse a woman's hand it's a terrible impression. One day the same guy can refuse to treat a woman based on the fact he is unwilling to touch one. And even now he's being allowed to stay in the country just like anyone else. Nationality or citizenship isn't a right it's a privilege. Only in the west we can get it.

If not for the liberal west millions of us leading happy productive lives would instead be sent back to where we came from.

You called the post stupid but didnt explain why it was stupid and instead are singing songs of how the west has put food on your table and fed you. I understand you want to be grateful for that and i have no problem with it. But my point was completely different which has gone right over your head. And the fact that you went on an irrelevant tirade and completely ignored that a doctor can touch anyone while rendering his services and it wouldnt have been possible for him to work as a doctor in Germany since so many years if he had refused to treat women. At least use common sense before replying.
 
Also to add, in the west we can speak freely. I can go and curse the government without fear. My mum can don a hijab without fear and my other relatives can be who they are without fear. In the UK the small minority of Isis mentality Islamic groups hold rallies openly when they can. The west is still what it claims to be, tolerant. France despite its anti Islamic rhetoric has millions of Muslims. And thousands of French Muslims who can go curse Macron without fear of imprisonment.

A very poor post from a good poster. Sad to see

This is irrelevant to the point I was making.
The west claims itself to be the champion of freedom of choice and religion and expression and what not. And yet cannot stomach a person's choice of refusing the handshake, a choice which literally harms no one.
 
You called the post stupid but didnt explain why it was stupid and instead are singing songs of how the west has put food on your table and fed you. I understand you want to be grateful for that and i have no problem with it. But my point was completely different which has gone right over your head. And the fact that you went on an irrelevant tirade and completely ignored that a doctor can touch anyone while rendering his services and it wouldnt have been possible for him to work as a doctor in Germany since so many years if he had refused to treat women. At least use common sense before replying.

If youre too stupid to see my point I can't help you.

As for feeding my family also does work in Pakistan so we don't need the west but we appreciate that millions of people back home are welcome . Even people like you who bash the west would and still line up for visas in Pakistan.

Before telling others to have common sense perhaps look in the mirror.
 
This is irrelevant to the point I was making.
The west claims itself to be the champion of freedom of choice and religion and expression and what not. And yet cannot stomach a person's choice of refusing the handshake, a choice which literally harms no one.

Despite this incident, which isn't a big deal tbh, the West is still far better at freedom of choice and religion than many Asian countries including Pakistan, India, China, Saudi, etc.

Before we point fingers towards the west, we must look inward and see how tolerant we are in the sub continent.
 
The Administrative Court of Baden-Württemberg (VGH) ruled that someone who rejects a handshake due to a "fundamentalist conception of culture and values" because they see women as "a danger of sexual temptation" was thereby rejecting "integration into German living conditions."

Here is the heart of the dispute. The doctor coming from a culture where any form of touch is construed as potentially sexual thinks it is quite normal to abstain from shaking hands, whereas the Germans see it as nothing more than a formal greeting. I'm sure from his point of view, the doctor has done nothing wrong, but since he's the one appealing for a visa, he has to conform to the western point of view. I am just surprised that he has been in Germany since 2002 and it has only just become an issue recently.
 
If youre too stupid to see my point I can't help you.

As for feeding my family also does work in Pakistan so we don't need the west but we appreciate that millions of people back home are welcome . Even people like you who bash the west would and still line up for visas in Pakistan.

Before telling others to have common sense perhaps look in the mirror.

I see your point but what can i do if your point is irrelevant to what i am saying?

I absolutely would line up for a visa if i land a better working opportunity in a western country. And like you, I too would be grateful for the opportunity to be working in any such country. I already told you i have no problem with it. I just made a (debatable) observation based on domestic politics of some of the western countries over the last few years. Does that make me a west basher? I don't think so but okay if you say so. I believe you have misconstrued my simple statement and extrapolated it something I didnt intend to touch upon.
 
:))

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] summed it up perfectly.

If you believe in that strongly, you deserve to accept the consequences too.

People are sick and tired of all this drama.

If you can't integrate with a basic gesture like a handshake, then what are you doing in Germany?

Feel sorry for him on one level but totally understand the decision on another.

100 more cases and people will get in line.

What about my personal liberty? Why should I hand shake if I don't want to? A flawed judgement tbh.
 
Despite this incident, which isn't a big deal tbh, the West is still far better at freedom of choice and religion than many Asian countries including Pakistan, India, China, Saudi, etc.

Before we point fingers towards the west, we must look inward and see how tolerant we are in the sub continent.

Have some self respect and stop degrading yourself. The inferiority complex is so strong! I was born in the west and the grass is not always green on the other side.
 
Have some self respect and stop degrading yourself. The inferiority complex is so strong! I was born in the west and the grass is not always green on the other side.
Yes. It’s the west where gau rakshaks are hunting down innocent Muslims, Ahmedis are getting attacked for their beliefs, Ughyrs are being detained in concentration camp. No wonder we have people from west lining up for asylum in the mentioned countries.
 
Yes. It’s the west where gau rakshaks are hunting down innocent Muslims, Ahmedis are getting attacked for their beliefs, Ughyrs are being detained in concentration camp. No wonder we have people from west lining up for asylum in the mentioned countries.

The west is not perfect either, no need to degrade your country. Well, the west did line up and loot most of the world :)
 
Stupidness all round imo - an overreaction by the courts and as for the man in question, why move to a non Muslim country if you want to behave like this? When in Rome and all that. It’s like moving to Japan and then refusing to bow, or moving to a Muslim country and refusing to respond to an Assalamualaikum appropriately.
 
Stupidness all round imo - an overreaction by the courts and as for the man in question, why move to a non Muslim country if you want to behave like this? When in Rome and all that. It’s like moving to Japan and then refusing to bow, or moving to a Muslim country and refusing to respond to an Assalamualaikum appropriately.

Probably they had been misled that western countries allow individual freedom and multi kulti.
 
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