Maradona v Messi

[Mamoon]

Not only that, the leadership he has shown has been impeccable. Among the greatest leaders ever now.

Amazing captain. His teammates could run through a brick wall for him.

Messi was not a natural leader like Maradona, but he grew into the role. Maradona criticized his leadership 3 years back, Messi being the great man that he is, didn’t utter a word & let his football do the talking & today, he stands as one of the most inspiring leaders in football.

If Maradona was alive, he would be eating his own words today. Maradona was almost Messi’s equal at football, but nowhere near him when it comes to grace.

You will never see Messi mock or criticize anyone because he has no insecurities, he is better than anyone who has ever kicked a football.

 

[Darkrai]

To be honest the first thought that came to my mind is how does the alleged King of football sleep in a cheap hack bed like that. Something straight out Travelodge.

He could sleep on the floor and still be the king of football.

 

[Mamoon]

“It's a waste of time to make him a leader when he needs to go to the bathroom twenty times before a match. He's scared. Let's not depend on Messi any more"

- Maradona in 2018

The insecurity & jealousy is obvious. Maradona knew Messi was better than him & it was difficult for him to admit.

This is what separates Messi from Maradona. He will never make such below the belt remarks about anyone. His grace & humility, along with his football talent, is unmatched.

In spite of what Maradona said about his leadership, he never uttered a word against him. Never responded & always showed respect & paid tribute to him.

Maradona is lucky he died before he witnessed Messi force him to eat his words.

 

[Technics 1210]

Messi an inspiring leader? I have heard it all now. Yes Messi has skillz and talent, but an inspiring leader? This is the guy who bailed on Argentina (resigned from international duties) in a strop cos he lost a final vs Chile.

Maradona was spot on, Messi has no personality/charisma which is why Messi is not a natural leader, let alone an inspiring leader.

 

[Technics 1210]

One thing I will say, there is one aspect in which Messi was ahead of Maradona, being a role model.

Maradona wasn't exactly a role model, given his off the field shenanigans.

 

[James]

 

[The_KING]

According to you Messi going to Miami is a graceful retirement, but Ronaldo wanting to play in the UCL in his later years, indication of his passion and desire, is a tarnished legacy, even though he might play in Saudi and retire. Got it.

There is a difference between passion and delusion. Every athlete needs to have the trait of self awareness and know when their time is up. Ronaldo is done as a top level player and him wanting to still play champions league football isn't passion, but delusion. I watched this guy stink up the place for Man United in Europa League against Europa Conference League opposition this season, but he thinks he can still do it against the likes of Madrid, PSG, Bayern. )

So much so you come out with some womble like Messi had to leave his home country to start his career in Spain, unlike Ronaldo didn't start his 'senior' career in his home country? Really this is your statement above?
You thought you would get away with this nonsense by using the term 'senior' career with Ronaldo, but not Messi? No, Ronaldo started his footballing career at Sporting Lisbon, but his career took off at Man United, he was not a senior at the time. Outside of his comfort zone.

By senior, I meant that start of his post juniors career. Senior means playing with the big boys, and not U21, U18, etc. I thought you were smart enough to work that out, but obviously not.

The reality is you would respect Ronaldo more if he was still playing for Man U, or at least, played his peak years at Man U, and you know what? If you had said this from the get go, then I would respect and understand your dislike of Ronaldo, but instead you used his interview with Piers as an excuse.

The reality is that I was happy when Ronaldo signed for Man United last season. But when I saw him play for Man United and how everyone around him had to sacrifice their game to make him look better, I realised that it was a big mistake signing him.

And yes, Piers' interview did make me dislike Ronaldo. I am a Man United fan before anything. Your goat disrespected the club that made him the player he is and were paying his wages. Anyone who doesn't suck up to Ronaldo will not tolerate that from Ronaldo or any player. Club >>>>>>>>>>> Any Individual Player.

And yes, Messi vs Ronaldo - the GOTT debate is still raging. (Notice not GOAT).

Keep telling yourself that. Make sure to hug your Ronaldo teddy bear before you sleep tonight.

 

[Technics 1210]

There is a difference between passion and delusion.

You said it, next time come with a more convincing argument on why you hate Ronaldo, cos your reasoning had more holes than Swiss cheese, and I was tired of exposing them.

As said, this is not a CR7 thread, there is another thread for the GOTT debate, this thread is about Maradona vs Messi.

 

[The_KING]

You said it, next time come with a more convincing argument on why you hate Ronaldo, cos your reasoning had more holes than Swiss cheese, and I was tired of exposing them.

As said, this is not a CR7 thread, there is another thread for the GOTT debate, this thread is about Maradona vs Messi.

Your argument on why Maradonna is better is purely based on nostalgia and nothing else.

You need to join us all in the 21st century.

 

[Technics 1210]

Your argument on why Maradonna is better is purely based on nostalgia and nothing else.

You need to join us all in the 21st century.

At least I have seen Maradona play live in the 20th Century, yet your arguments against Maradona are based on Google combined with ignorance and Youtube. Your own messiah, Messi, looked up to Maradona too.

I have seen both Maradona and Messi play live, you have just seen Messi play football. My generation is more qualified to compare the 2 players as opposed to the one sided hack job that is the Millenial generation.

Nothing better than having lived in the 20th century, and now living in the 21st century.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

At least I have seen Maradona play live in the 20th Century, yet your arguments against Maradona are based on Google combined with ignorance and Youtube. Your own messiah, Messi, looked up to Maradona too.

I have seen both Maradona and Messi play live, you have just seen Messi play football. My generation is more qualified to compare the 2 players as opposed to the one sided hack job that is the Millenial generation.

Nothing better than having lived in the 20th century, and now living in the 21st century.

You watched the odd game, barely a fraction of his career, it's never a fair comparison.

You didn't see all the games he did nothing in.

 

[The_KING]

Messi has won the Copa America. Maradonna never did. That is another thing Messi has over Maradonna.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Messi was literally the betting favorite to win the Golden ball with an estimated 80% chance of winning, given Argentina 1) Won the WC 2) Messi Performed in the Final, it was a given he was going to win Golden Ball.

Even Messi's biggest critics/Ronaldo fan boys like Neville and Keane thought Messi should win the Golden Ball.

Indeed but apparently there were 3 better players than him

 

[The_KING]

Indeed but apparently there were 3 better players than him ����

I wonder who those three players better than him were? )

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

I wonder who those three players better than him were? )

Mbappe (who did nothing in the QF and SF), Martinez and the 3rd is top secret

 

[The_KING]

Mbappe (who did nothing in the QF and SF), Martinez and the 3rd is top secret

Messi was influential in every game. Even without the penalties, Messi had a hand in all of Argentina's attacks and goals. This guy has clearly got a bias against Messi and it is sad.

 

[Technics 1210]

Technically, Martinez won the World Cup for Argentina. The 2 penalty shoot outs vs Netherlands and France, proved beyond doubt that despite Messi's goals, Argentina have a habit of squandering a lead.

 

[Hitman]

You watched the odd game, barely a fraction of his career, it's never a fair comparison.

You didn't see all the games he did nothing in.

Don't you still realise he is using Maradona's name to save his face?

 

[Technics 1210]

You watched the odd game, barely a fraction of his career, it's never a fair comparison.

You didn't see all the games he did nothing in.

Let me guess, you watched every single game Messi ever played in, right?

You need to do better than assume.

 

[Technics 1210]

This is great, Messi Millenials on a character assassination tactic cos they cannot offer anything substantive on Maradona. Awesome stuff!

Moving on, one of the reasons why Messi failed to win a medal with Argentina for so long was simply because he was not playing alongside his superstar players at Barcelona, yup, take him out of his comfort zone, and we know the rest. He had to thank Covid lockdown for his Copa America win playing in empty stadiums, and even in this WC, Martinez won the World Cup for Argentina, literally the last line of defence!

Maradona on the other hand, didn't need superstars around him, domestic or international level, he was a supernova himself.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Mass parades across Argentina in celebration of winning the World Cup, and the crowds have huge banners of Maradona, but not Messi.

Messi is at best a GOTT, Maradona remains the GOAT.

The Argentinians have spoken!

)

Lots of respect for Messi, but come'on man! .... even a blind knows that Maradona was from a another world.

 

[James]

Reminder that this is just intended to be a friendly discussion about a couple of football players.

 

[Technics 1210]

View attachment 118212

I missed this stats table.

Firstly I would say that Ballon d'Or comparison should be struck off, as Maradona was not eligible for the subjective award.

Secondly, the rest of the stats reveal the gulf between the 2 players. I mean, Maradona just needed 11 trophies, including a World Cup, and 259 goals in 490 appearences to establish himself as THE GOAT, then to God status.

Messi on the other hand needed over 3 times the number of trophies, over 3 times the number of goals, and over twice the number of appearences compared to Maradona, just to sit at the GOAT debate table.

Maradona was simply the God of football. What he achieved in terms of status and legend in such a short time, will never be surpassed.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Maradona single handedly won the 86 WC, and that's not all, he single handedly won Series A with Napoli too, twice.

Pendantry/Semantics will not change these facts.

The 1986 Argentina team was easily better that this bunch.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Don't you still realise he is using Maradona's name to save his face?

Oh don't worry, I'm well aware of what's happening

It's just funny seeing it unfold

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Technically, Martinez won the World Cup for Argentina. The 2 penalty shoot outs vs Netherlands and France, proved beyond doubt that despite Messi's goals, Argentina have a habit of squandering a lead.

This is the thing, nobody is making the absurd claim that Messi won the WC single handedly, it's a team game and requires other players to step up in key moments

But even you can't deny without Messi they don't even get where they did, so the idea that it was all Martinez is ridiculous

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Let me guess, you watched every single game Messi ever played in, right?

You need to do better than assume.

Not every single game but I've seen the vast majority, I've actually seen more of Messi than I have of Newcastle due to almost every La Liga match being on TV in the UK.

It's a safe assumption, if you want to claim you watched the majority of Maradona's games then carry on cos it's not believable.

 

[Mamoon]

Day three & some people will not stop crying. I never imagined Messi winning the World Cup would hurt some people to such an extent.

I wonder how Ronaldo is feeling right now. I hope he is coping better than his fans.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Day three & some people will not stop crying. I never imagined Messi winning the World Cup would hurt some people to such an extent.

I wonder how Ronaldo is feeling right now. I hope he is coping better than his fans.

He'll be raging, he got upset when Messi won the Ballon D'Or so you can only imagine what Messi winning the World Cup will have done to him

He might get Piers to do another interview

 

[Mamoon]

He'll be raging, he got upset when Messi won the Ballon D'Or so you can only imagine what Messi winning the World Cup will have done to him

He might get Piers to do another interview

I don’t think he could be doing worse than this Technics fellow.

 

[Mamoon]

Not every single game but I've seen the vast majority, I've actually seen more of Messi than I have of Newcastle due to almost every La Liga match being on TV in the UK.

It's a safe assumption, if you want to claim you watched the majority of Maradona's games then carry on cos it's not believable.

He never watched Maradona. His lies were exposed when he didn’t know why Barcelona sold him.

I bet he knew nothing about Maradona before Messi killed the GOAT debate with Ronaldo & he became the biggest fan of Maradona overnight )

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Maradona

 

[Technics 1210]

Not every single game but I've seen the vast majority, I've actually seen more of Messi than I have of Newcastle due to almost every La Liga match being on TV in the UK.

It's a safe assumption, if you want to claim you watched the majority of Maradona's games then carry on cos it's not believable.

The difference is I have seen both Maradona and Messi games, you on the other hand only Messi games.

It's clear who is in a position to make a fair comparison, and who is not.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

The difference is I have seen both Maradona and Messi games, you on the other hand only Messi games.

It's clear who is in a position to make a fair comparison, and who is not.

Considering you don't think Messi was in the top 3 players of the tournament your judgement is not worth anything

 

[Technics 1210]

Considering you don't think Messi was in the top 3 players of the tournament your judgement is not worth anything

Still hung up about that are you. The born of today!

At Least Messi made it to my team of the tournament.

 

[Technics 1210]

This is the thing, nobody is making the absurd claim that Messi won the WC single handedly, it's a team game and requires other players to step up in key moments

But even you can't deny without Messi they don't even get where they did, so the idea that it was all Martinez is ridiculous

So on one hand you claim nobody is making the absurd claim that Messi won the WC single-handedly (not that he could), and in the next sentence you claim without Messi Argentina wouldn't get where they did.

And who claimed it was all Martinez? I was simply referring to the penalty shootout vs Netherlands and France. If you want to pretend Martinez wasn't the last line of defence on said matches then be my guest.

Yet here you are, denying without Maradona Argentina would have won in 86, but without Messi Argentina wouldn't have won in 2022.

Amazing.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Still hung up about that are you. The born of today!

At Least Messi made it to my team of the tournament.

Messi actually won player of the tournament so like I said before your judgement has shown it has little to no value

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

So on one hand you claim nobody is making the absurd claim that Messi won the WC single-handedly (not that he could), and in the next sentence you claim without Messi Argentina wouldn't get where they did.

And who claimed it was all Martinez? I was simply referring to the penalty shootout vs Netherlands and France. If you want to pretend Martinez wasn't the last line of defence on said matches then be my guest.

Yet here you are, denying without Maradona Argentina would have won in 86, but without Messi Argentina wouldn't have won in 2022.

Amazing.

You are making stuff up

There is a difference between saying they couldn't have won without him and saying he won it single handedly, not sure why you are struggling with that. I don't think they win it without Martinez but I wouldn't say he won it for them single handedly

Where have I denied Argentina would have won it without Maradona? Why are you intent on making stuff up?

I can simplify it for you

1986 - Argentina don't win it without Maradona but he didn't win it single handedly as he needed his team mates

2022 - Argentina don't win it without Messi but he didn't win it single handedly as he needed his team mates

 

[Technics 1210]

Messi actually won player of the tournament so like I said before your judgement has shown it has little to no value

Give it a rest.

Golden Ball is a subjective award. Players short listed by FIFA, and winner voted by members of the media. No room for favouritism, none what so ever. Hmmm. Messi even won the award for failing to win the WC in 2014, favouritism at work.

Yes I know Maradona won the Golden Ball award too, but difference is Maradona fans do not cling to some subjective award to prove his greatness, whereas Messi millenials are nothing without Messi's stats, medals tally, and trophy cabinet.

I prefer objective awards, like Golden Boot, straight up awarded to the player who scored most goals. No arguments. No questions. No favouritism.

 

[Technics 1210]

You are making stuff up

There is a difference between saying they couldn't have won without him and saying he won it single handedly, not sure why you are struggling with that. I don't think they win it without Martinez but I wouldn't say he won it for them single handedly

Where have I denied Argentina would have won it without Maradona? Why are you intent on making stuff up?

I can simplify it for you

1986 - Argentina don't win it without Maradona but he didn't win it single handedly as he needed his team mates

2022 - Argentina don't win it without Messi but he didn't win it single handedly as he needed his team mates

So you admit I never claimed it was all Martinez.

Good, because it is clear who is making stuff up.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

So you admit I never claimed it was all Martinez.

Good, because it is clear who is making stuff up.

You said and I quote

"Technically, Martinez won the World Cup for Argentina"

Technically Messi won it for them too

You are just being silly and this struggling to give Messi praise is actually embarrassing but I suppose boomers behaving strangely isn't a new thing

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Give it a rest.

Golden Ball is a subjective award. Players short listed by FIFA, and winner voted by members of the media. No room for favouritism, none what so ever. Hmmm. Messi even won the award for failing to win the WC in 2014, favouritism at work.

Yes I know Maradona won the Golden Ball award too, but difference is Maradona fans do not cling to some subjective award to prove his greatness, whereas Messi millenials are nothing without Messi's stats, medals tally, and trophy cabinet.

I prefer objective awards, like Golden Boot, straight up awarded to the player who scored most goals. No arguments. No questions. No favouritism.

How many golden boots did Maradona win?

 

[Technics 1210]

You said and I quote

"Technically, Martinez won the World Cup for Argentina"

Technically Messi won it for them too

You are just being silly and this struggling to give Messi praise is actually embarrassing but I suppose boomers behaving strangely isn't a new thing

I think you are being pedantic.

 

[Technics 1210]

How many golden boots did Maradona win?

None, but as I said, he didn't need to, because greatness is not about stats, it's about impact.

Which part are you not understanding?

 

[happydavy]

He left Barcelona because of his behavior problems. Barcelona board stood by him through all his troubles until the day he ended up in a brawl with Bilbao players.

That was the moment they were done with him & Maradona & Napoli were a perfect match. They needed a savior to uplift them & he needed a protective environment where he would be treated like god.

Yes and no. That brawl with Bilbao players was bound to happen as they broke his ankel the previous year and tried everything to do it again in this match. But its a misconception that Barca asked him to leave, 3 reasons why he left Barca (1) he was banned for 3 months post that match and so his whole season would have got wasted (2) Napoli gave him a much better contract (3) Italian league in those days was the best league in the world. Don't belive me, read the interviews of Nunez, who was the president at that time.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

None, but as I said, he didn't need to, because greatness is not about stats, it's about impact.

Which part are you not understanding?

Right, right, so when it comes to Messi you want objective awards but then for Maradona you like the subjective stuff?

 

[Technics 1210]

Right, right, so when it comes to Messi you want objective awards but then for Maradona you like the subjective stuff?

You are really struggling.

Here is what I said : I prefer objective awards, like Golden Boot, straight up awarded to the player who scored most goals. No arguments. No questions. No favouritism.


http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?309047-Maradona-v-Messi&p=11701432#post11701432

I think you need a rest.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I wonder how Ronaldo is feeling right now. I hope he is coping better than his fans.

I'd imagine he's feeling a bit silly.

He overplayed his hand considerably and given the way he has managed his career so far he's probably wondering what possessed him to commit hara-kiri when it was about to end anyway.

He threw a fit wanting to leave Utd thinking he could play at the top level elsewhere but instead it's looking likely he will play some useless Saudi league.

He disrespected his club manager only for his national manager to also bench him.

It all looks a bit silly and unnecessary. He could have quietly finished at United and it wouldn't have damaged his legacy, perhaps it would have even have enhanced it if he grew into a role where he supported the youngsters in his twilight years to get his first major club back into the big time.

Instead he now watches his rival complete a victory lap after winning the biggest rival winning the most prized trophy in sport, Messi may also win the champions league too.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes and no. That brawl with Bilbao players was bound to happen as they broke his ankel the previous year and tried everything to do it again in this match. But its a misconception that Barca asked him to leave, 3 reasons why he left Barca (1) he was banned for 3 months post that match and so his whole season would have got wasted (2) Napoli gave him a much better contract (3) Italian league in those days was the best league in the world. Don't belive me, read the interviews of Nunez, who was the president at that time.

Barcelona was richer than Napoli. If they wanted, they could have easily offered better terms if money was what Maradona was after which is not true.

However, Barcelona did not think it was worth it because Maradona was a nutcase. In other words they did not thing to stand in his way apart from milk Napoli for a high fee (obviously) because there is no way they could keep him at the club after the brawl.

Italy was the best league in the 80’s & 90’s but Napoli was not Juventus. It clearly wasn’t a decision based on footballing reasons. Maradona found his home in Naples because he could resonate with the city & the fans.

What Maradona achieved with Napoli is probably unparalleled in modern football, & I think that alone makes him a GOAT contender more so than winning the 86 World Cup.

However, based on what Messi has done over his career, his longevity & the way he handled the pressure of being the next Maradona & dominated both goal scoring & playmaking like no other player in history makes him the GOAT.

Nevertheless, it is hard to argue for any player other than Messi to be ranked above Maradona. His performance in the 86 World Cup (most dominating performance ever by an individual in a World Cup) & his achievements at Napoli tower over everything any player (except Messi) has ever done.

 

[shaz619]

I'd imagine he's feeling a bit silly.

He overplayed his hand considerably and given the way he has managed his career so far he's probably wondering what possessed him to commit hara-kiri when it was about to end anyway.

He threw a fit wanting to leave Utd thinking he could play at the top level elsewhere but instead it's looking likely he will play some useless Saudi league.

He disrespected his club manager only for his national manager to also bench him.

It all looks a bit silly and unnecessary. He could have quietly finished at United and it wouldn't have damaged his legacy, perhaps it would have even have enhanced it if he grew into a role where he supported the youngsters in his twilight years to get his first major club back into the big time.

Instead he now watches his rival complete a victory lap after winning the biggest rival winning the most prized trophy in sport, Messi may also win the champions league too.

His rival is not exactly an angel, have you seen this level of gloating before? one of the most classless group of champions you will see, the disrespect towards Mbappe is pathetic to say the least.

I think people put these guys on too much of a pedestal anyway, I don’t think they can get to where they are just by playing nice.

 

[shaz619]

Have you watched the recent R9 documentary? It was really good

He was special and there will always be a case of what if with him, reckon without injuries he would have been the best ever

No, which doc is it? would be great to watch. He achieved so much despite the issues off the pitch, I agree had he been more disciplined there would be little doubt

 

[Technics 1210]

The Ballon d'Or is the most subjective award in Football history, and yes I am including the 5 awarded to CR7.

There is no bigger example of subjectiveness and favouritism than Robert Lewandowski being robbed of the Ballon d’Or award. Despite the award being cancelled in 2020, the voters (Footballing media & Captains), awarded the 2021 Ballon d'Or to Messi.

Since Messi millennials hold stats above all else, Lewandowski had better stats in 2021 compared to Messi and CR7, but no, the voters decided to award Messi with this 7th Ballon d'Or award, also citing his brief, yet 'earth shattering' start at PSG.

Thankfully, Maradona didn't need a Ballon d'Or to cement his greatness!

 

[Technics 1210]

Every player today, in their peak, wants to move to a bigger club, a richer club, a successful club.

Maradona? He didn't care, in his peak, he moved from Barcelona (Heavyweight institutional club), to a minnow club - Napoli - then blew the footballing world away.

No player today, not even Messi in his prime, would ever consider moving to a minnow club let alone have the divine ability to propel said club to league/cup victories - single handedly.

The best part, Maradona didn't do it once, he did it multiple times, proving it was no 'fluke'.

Maradona - the greatest!

 

[Mamoon]

Give it a rest.

Golden Ball is a subjective award. Players short listed by FIFA, and winner voted by members of the media. No room for favouritism, none what so ever. Hmmm. Messi even won the award for failing to win the WC in 2014, favouritism at work.

Yes I know Maradona won the Golden Ball award too, but difference is Maradona fans do not cling to some subjective award to prove his greatness, whereas Messi millenials are nothing without Messi's stats, medals tally, and trophy cabinet.

I prefer objective awards, like Golden Boot, straight up awarded to the player who scored most goals. No arguments. No questions. No favouritism.

Winning the Golden Ball has little to do with winning the World Cup. Sure it helps to win it, but it is about being the best player of the tournament not the best player from the winning team.

Ronaldo won the Golden Ball in 1998 even though France won the final & he failed to score in the final.

Kahn won the Golden Ball in 2002 even though Germany lost the final to Brazil & it was his error that led to the first goal.

Although the Golden Ball officially became a thing in 1982, the player of the tournament was unofficially announced since the first World Cup so it is essentially the same thing.

Since the first World Cup, only 10 out of 22 times has the best player award been given to a player from the winning team.

Since the Golden Ball was formally introduced in 1982, only 4 out of 11 times did the winner win the World Cup.

In fact, Messi (2022) is the first player in 18 years to win the Golden Ball & the World Cup.

In 2014, no player deserved it more. It had nothing to do with favoritism. Germany did not have any standout players because all of them played really well except maybe Ozil, while Messi was the clear standout player for the finalists without whom Argentina would have never made the final.

 

[Mamoon]

His rival is not exactly an angel, have you seen this level of gloating before? one of the most classless group of champions you will see, the disrespect towards Mbappe is pathetic to say the least.

I think people put these guys on too much of a pedestal anyway, I don’t think they can get to where they are just by playing nice.

Argentinians are generally aggressive & uncivilized. They probably have the worst fans in football. Maradona’s behavior was basically a mirror image of your average uneducated Argentinian.

Messi though is quite different from your normal Argentinian, perhaps the fact that he didn’t play in the Argentinian league helped. Nevertheless, some of the aggression rubbed into him as well because he was uncharacteristically aggressive in this World Cup.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

No, which doc is it? would be great to watch. He achieved so much despite the issues off the pitch, I agree had he been more disciplined there would be little doubt

Are you in the UK?

If so, go on BBC iPlayer and search for The Phenomenon: Ronaldo

It's 91 minutes and such a great watch

 

[topspin]

The Ballon d'Or is the most subjective award in Football history, and yes I am including the 5 awarded to CR7.

There is no bigger example of subjectiveness and favouritism than Robert Lewandowski being robbed of the Ballon d’Or award. Despite the award being cancelled in 2020, the voters (Footballing media & Captains), awarded the 2021 Ballon d'Or to Messi.

Since Messi millennials hold stats above all else, Lewandowski had better stats in 2021 compared to Messi and CR7, but no, the voters decided to award Messi with this 7th Ballon d'Or award, also citing his brief, yet 'earth shattering' start at PSG.

Thankfully, Maradona didn't need a Ballon d'Or to cement his greatness!

OMG for how long is Messi is gonna live rent free in your head after winning the World Cup with Argentina?

Give it a rest for your own sake. It's not healthy and it's obviously consuming you.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

His rival is not exactly an angel, have you seen this level of gloating before? one of the most classless group of champions you will see, the disrespect towards Mbappe is pathetic to say the least.

I think people put these guys on too much of a pedestal anyway, I don’t think they can get to where they are just by playing nice.

Yeah found the stuff about Mbappe quite distasteful but these guys are just as painfus as us Pakistanis once you strip away the money earned from football

I do think there is a difference between not playing nice and being a moany little you know what which is what Ronaldo has done recently.

I think a premier athlete like him will ultkmately regret the way his final days have ended.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

The Ballon d'Or is the most subjective award in Football history, and yes I am including the 5 awarded to CR7.

There is no bigger example of subjectiveness and favouritism than Robert Lewandowski being robbed of the Ballon d’Or award. Despite the award being cancelled in 2020, the voters (Footballing media & Captains), awarded the 2021 Ballon d'Or to Messi.

Since Messi millennials hold stats above all else, Lewandowski had better stats in 2021 compared to Messi and CR7, but no, the voters decided to award Messi with this 7th Ballon d'Or award, also citing his brief, yet 'earth shattering' start at PSG.

Thankfully, Maradona didn't need a Ballon d'Or to cement his greatness!

Messi was the worthy winner

In terms of stats it was

Lewandowski had 62 goals+assists
Messi had 56 goals+assists

Lewandowski missed almost 3 times as many big chances

Messi completed almost 3 times as many passes

Messi completed almost 5 times as many dribbles

Messi created 26 big chances to Lewandowski's 16

More tackles and recoveries by Messi

His goals+assists won 14 points more than Lewandowski

More match winning goals and assists by Messi

Messi had 27 MOTM to Lewandowski's 13

Messi won player of the tournament at Copa America, got the golden boot in Copa America and helped his country win their first trophy in 18 years

Lewandowski was robbed by the award being cancelled in 2020 but doesn't change Messi being a worthy winner

And Messi is currently the favourite to lift his 8th Ballon D'Or

 

[shaz619]

Argentinians are generally aggressive & uncivilized. They probably have the worst fans in football. Maradona’s behavior was basically a mirror image of your average uneducated Argentinian.

Messi though is quite different from your normal Argentinian, perhaps the fact that he didn’t play in the Argentinian league helped. Nevertheless, some of the aggression rubbed into him as well because he was uncharacteristically aggressive in this World Cup.

I always felt it would be England fans, Argentina fans certainly challenge them for that. Yeah generally he seems to behave, but I find if odd he hasn’t asked Martinez to chill a bit with the Mbappe insults considering they are team mates at PSG

 

[shaz619]

Are you in the UK?

If so, go on BBC iPlayer and search for The Phenomenon: Ronaldo

It's 91 minutes and such a great watch

Nice one I will check this out on iPlayer, the shows on there seem to be lacking as of late but documentaries are always good

 

[Technics 1210]

Messi was the worthy winner

In terms of stats it was

Lewandowski had 62 goals+assists
Messi had 56 goals+assists

Lewandowski missed almost 3 times as many big chances

Messi completed almost 3 times as many passes

Messi completed almost 5 times as many dribbles

Messi created 26 big chances to Lewandowski's 16

More tackles and recoveries by Messi

His goals+assists won 14 points more than Lewandowski

More match winning goals and assists by Messi

Messi had 27 MOTM to Lewandowski's 13

Messi won player of the tournament at Copa America, got the golden boot in Copa America and helped his country win their first trophy in 18 years

Lewandowski was robbed by the award being cancelled in 2020 but doesn't change Messi being a worthy winner

And Messi is currently the favourite to lift his 8th Ballon D'Or

Are your stats in bold correct? Or are you misleading readers by fibbing?


For Ballon d'Or 2021

Messi 40 goals / 16 assists

Lewandowski 54 goals / 8 assists


https://soofootball.com/messi-vs-lewandowski-why-messi-deserves-the-ballon-dor-2021/

https://www.sportco.io/article/robert-lewandowski-vs-lionel-messi-stats-2021-ballon-dor-301965

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Are your stats in bold correct? Or are you misleading readers by fibbing?


For Ballon d'Or 2021

Messi 40 goals / 16 assists

Lewandowski 54 goals / 8 assists


https://soofootball.com/messi-vs-lewandowski-why-messi-deserves-the-ballon-dor-2021/

https://www.sportco.io/article/robert-lewandowski-vs-lionel-messi-stats-2021-ballon-dor-301965

I suggest you read them again, use a calculator if you need help my friend

 

[shaz619]

Yeah found the stuff about Mbappe quite distasteful but these guys are just as painfus as us Pakistanis once you strip away the money earned from football

I do think there is a difference between not playing nice and being a moany little you know what which is what Ronaldo has done recently.

I think a premier athlete like him will ultkmately regret the way his final days have ended.

If we look at the sports stars, I’d say generally the current bunch seem like decent lads. Obviously, the 90’s lot and 2000’s, different story lol

Yeah ignoring some of the harsh truths, it wasn’t clever right before a World Cup despite how upset he was. There are very few great players in history who don’t have some sort of ego / expect royalty service, the biggest stars often have a big chip on their shoulder. We’ve seen the best from this era overreact in some way or the other. I also feel Ronaldo wasn’t right in the head due to his personal issues, perhaps he hasn’t quiet recovered mentally from the loss of his child, it has certainly impacted his performance and combined with father time calling, it all has made for one fine explosion

 

[Technics 1210]

I suggest you read them again, use a calculator if you need help my friend

No need, you got caught fibbing. Was waiting for you to say the websites are wrong too.

Anyway, I will not be fixated by your deliberate attempt to mislead.

The point still stands, Ballon d'Or is a subjective award.

 

[Bewal Express]

I watched both in their prime and Messi needed this to make the case for parity or better. Messi is a much better club footballer than Maradona- no real comparison even when you take into the account the thuggish nature of football in the 80s. What Maradona had was a single handed WC win in 86, taking a pretty average team to win a WC, Messi has had better teams around him and hadn't won the WC but ironically the WC win came with a team that can be best described as QFs. Messi grabbed this team around neck and took it to a Win. Messi takes it for me.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

No need, you got caught fibbing. Was waiting for you to say the websites are wrong too.

Anyway, I will not be fixated by your deliberate attempt to mislead.

The point still stands, Ballon d'Or is a subjective award.

I literally posted the same numbers, are you feeling okay?

I post the same numbers as you and you accuse me of lying

Messi winning the World Cup has really done a number on you

 

[Mamoon]

Ronaldo in the 90’s was probably the closest thing we have seen to Messi & perhaps the only footballer who had the same natural talent.

He more than just a number 9 for PSV & Barcelona. He was a complete forward & a phenomenal dribbler. Unfortunately, he lost a lot of pace & athleticism due to recurring knee injuries.

Post 1998, Ronaldo was nowhere near the same player but he still morphed himself into a deadly number 9.

If it wasn’t for the other Ronaldo’s longevity, there would be no comparison between the two. 1993-1997 Ronaldo is better than any version of CR7.

 

[Technics 1210]

I literally posted the same numbers, are you feeling okay?

No what you did is combine Goals and assists, when you have been separating Goals and Assist through out this thread.

I get it, you want to massage Messi's inferior stats to defend and justify his 2021 Ballon d'Or award, but your attempt at misleading readers was poor, and laughable. Then again, you probably did a copy and paste.

I totally understand your frustration, Messi millennials feel the Messi vs Ronaldo debate is over, but Maradona vs Messi debate is next level, for which you and your generation are not even qualified.

 

[Mamoon]

CR7 is one of the greatest goal scorers ever, but his lack of talent in terms of passing, creativity & playmaking makes him inferior to so many great attackers in history.

He is at best a top 10 player in my opinion, was never in contention for GOAT title. If we are purely talking about goals, then he will be a real contender for top 3.

However, it is hard to pick him ahead of forwards who were great goal scorers but also great without the goals. Ronaldo will not even be a top 50 player in history if you take out his goals.

Not a complete attacker any measure. Complete goal scorer, but not a complete attacker. This is why he has aged so badly - he offers nothing to any team now that he has lost his pace & sharpness in front of goal while the likes of Messi are still controlling games at 35 & will continue to do so for a few more years.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

No what you did is combine Goals and assists, when you have been separating Goals and Assist through out this thread.

I get it, you want to massage Messi's inferior stats to defend and justify his 2021 Ballon d'Or award, but your attempt at misleading readers was poor, and laughable. Then again, you probably did a copy and paste.

I totally understand your frustration, Messi millennials feel the Messi vs Ronaldo debate is over, but Maradona vs Messi debate is next level, for which you and your generation are not even qualified.

Do you know what the + symbol stands for?

If not, go and speak to an elder and they might be able to help you out

You claimed I lied but the truth was you didn't read my post properly

You're just embarrassing yourself now, it's quite tragic

 

[Technics 1210]

Since Messi fans love their stats and comparison, why not compare Messi vs Pele when it comes to the GOAT debate? I know none us here have seen Pele play live, but the comparison stops at World Cup wins. Pele 3, Messi 1. Stop right here, debate over.

Pele > Messi.

I anticipate Messi fans will now claim other stats have to be taken into consideration, along with other factors etc.

Messi Millennials cannot have it both ways. What a conundrum for them.

On another note, the Maradona vs Messi debate is not even fair, I mean, we cannot compare the God of football with a GOAT candidate.

 

[Technics 1210]

Do you know what the + symbol stands for?

I am not fixated with your deliberate attempt at massaging inferior Messi stats. Move on.

Messi +
Maradona +++++

See what I did here?

 

[Mamoon]

No what you did is combine Goals and assists, when you have been separating Goals and Assist through out this thread.

I get it, you want to massage Messi's inferior stats to defend and justify his 2021 Ballon d'Or award, but your attempt at misleading readers was poor, and laughable. Then again, you probably did a copy and paste.

I totally understand your frustration, Messi millennials feel the Messi vs Ronaldo debate is over, but Maradona vs Messi debate is next level, for which you and your generation are not even qualified.

This too shall pass. Please make peace with the fact that Ronaldo will retire with 0 World Cups, 0 Golden Balls, less Ballon d’Ors, inferior goals to game ratio & much less assists.

He will also retire with less league titles. When both him & Messi were in Spain, he could only take Madrid to the league title twice in ten years.

He can seek solace in the higher number of UCL wins though, but the only time he crossed paths with Messi in UCL while both were in Spain, Messi dribbled past his entire team on his home turf & eliminated Madrid.

Messi also dominated him in El Classico & scored more goals, created more goals & won more matches.

In conclusion, Ronaldo’s success at Madrid was dependent on not crossing paths with Messi because when he did, he came out as the lesser player more often than not.

The best thing that happened to Madrid in UCL from 2016 to 2018 was they avoided Barcelona, because we all know what the outcome would have been if they did cross paths.

 

[Technics 1210]

This too shall pass. Please make peace with the fact that Ronaldo will retire with 0 World Cups, 0 Golden Balls, less Ballon d’Ors, inferior goals to game ratio & much less assists.

I really do not care, Maradona has inferior stats to Messi, yet Maradona is the God of Football and achieved this status in almost a 3rd of the time Messi achieved GOAT candidacy.

Greatness is not measured in stats. Which part are you not understanding?

 

[Mamoon]

I really do not care, Maradona has inferior stats to Messi, yet Maradona is the God of Football and achieved this status in almost a 3rd of the time Messi achieved GOAT candidacy.

Greatness is not measured in stats. Which part are you not understanding?

Greatness is also not measured by how much you can cry. You criticize subjectivity but you want everyone to accept your subjective assessment that Maradona was better than Messi.

Subjective because an objective comparison based on goals, assists, goals to game ratio, trophies & longevity makes this a one sided comparison in favor of Messi.

So you have a problem when others are subjective but at the same, you want everyone to accept your subjective assessment.
[MENTION=116]Geordie Ahmed[/MENTION] is right - Messi winning the World Cup seems to have done a lot of psychological damage. I sincerely hope you don’t suffer from any PTSD in the future.

It seems Messi lifting the World Cup will haunt you forever.

 

[Technics 1210]

Greatness is also not measured by how much you can cry. You criticize subjectivity but you want everyone to accept your subjective assessment that Maradona was better than Messi.

The difference is you have not seen Maradona play live, so you are not even in a position to even make an assessment!

On the contrary, the World Cup win has gotten to the heads of Messi Millennials - waiting for 16 years - bless - and he finally won! We all witnessed how Messi fans were dead silent when Mbappe equalised in the final, and then like hooligans, swamped the threads when Argentina won. Same applied to group stages.

Bottom line, you thought the Messi v CR7 debate was over, but are just not geared up for the next level of Maradona vs Messi, and you know this deep down, and why.

 

[Mamoon]

The difference is you have not seen Maradona play live, so you are not even in a position to even make an assessment!

On the contrary, the World Cup win has gotten to the heads of Messi Millennials - waiting for 16 years - bless - and he finally won! We all witnessed how Messi fans were dead silent when Mbappe equalised in the final, and then like hooligans, swamped the threads when Argentina won. Same applied to group stages.

Bottom line, you thought the Messi v CR7 debate was over, but are just not geared up for the next level of Maradona vs Messi, and you know this deep down, and why.

There are people who have seen Maradona play, & most of them say Messi is better. Arsene Wenger, Arsenal’s greatest manager who is older than you & knows a lot more football than you has called Messi the greatest player of all time.

Most managers, commentators & football writers who have watched both declare Messi to be the GOAT. It is pretty much a unanimous viewpoint now. People who still call Maradona the GOAT are in a minority.

So people like me, who have not seen Maradona live because he retired a couple of years before I started following football have a choice between the subjective opinion of managers, ex-players & commentators etc. & the subjective opinion of people like you who clearly don’t seem to know what you are talking about.

So it is a very easy decision for me. I know whose opinion I need to give credence too.

Anyway, it seems your main purpose is to have the last word in this thread. If that is what you are looking for then I shall grant your wish. Please have the last word.

 

[Technics 1210]

There are people who have seen Maradona play, & most of them say Messi is better. Arsene Wenger, Arsenal’s greatest manager who is older than you & knows a lot more football than you has called Messi the greatest player of all time.

And there are managers who do not even include Maradona or Messi as their greatest players of all time.

‘Best player I’d ever seen’: Jose Mourinho picks the GOAT and it’s not Messi or Ronaldo

https://www.hindustantimes.com/foot...ano-ronaldo/story-ruglukYBpjV90xbSwgSElI.html

What's your point?

 

[The_KING]

I really do not care, Maradona has inferior stats to Messi, yet Maradona is the God of Football and achieved this status in almost a 3rd of the time Messi achieved GOAT candidacy.

Greatness is not measured in stats. Which part are you not understanding?

Greatness is no measured in stats, yet you stated in an earlier post that you only care about objective awards like golden boot and not subjective ones like golden ball.

At least, be consistent.