Maradona v Messi

[Mamoon]

And there are managers who do not even include Maradona or Messi as their greatest players of all time.

‘Best player I’d ever seen’: Jose Mourinho picks the GOAT and it’s not Messi or Ronaldo

https://www.hindustantimes.com/foot...ano-ronaldo/story-ruglukYBpjV90xbSwgSElI.html

What's your point?

I don’t care about the opinions of those who have managed or played with Messi, Ronaldo or Maradona because it is obvious that they will be biased.

For example, I don’t care about Pep Guardiola or Xavi calling Messi the GOAT or Zidane calling Ronaldo better.

But the majority of neutrals consider Messi to be better than Maradona. I value their assessment more than yours because you don’t know what you are talking about as you have demonstrated in this thread & on multiple others.

There is nothing you can do or say that will change the minds of all those who consider Messi to be the GOAT & it is the majority now. Please accept it & move on. You are of course free to think whatever you want in your head.

You still think Ronaldo is a better player than Messi but least you have the shame to not say it out loud. That privilege was taken away from you on Sunday.

Please carry on. No more replies from my side. I hope you make peace with this tragedy in due time.

 

[Technics 1210]

Greatness is no measured in stats, yet you stated in an earlier post that you only care about objective awards like golden boot and not subjective ones like golden ball.

At least, be consistent.

At least read in context.

And, I never said I only care [what is it with you Messi millennials and putting words in peoples mouths?] I clearly said, I prefer objective awards vs. subjective awards.

 

[Technics 1210]

I don’t care about the opinions of those who have managed or played with Messi, Ronaldo or Maradona because it is obvious that they will be biased.

You do not care when your point is destroyed.

Amazing though, you only care about the view of the fans, but not managers who know more about Football than you and I .

If there is anything else, feel free, if not, you can have the last word.

 

[The_KING]

At least read in context.

And, I never said I only care [what is it with you Messi millennials and putting words in peoples mouths?] I clearly said, I prefer objective awards vs. subjective awards.

If we want to talk about objectivity, everything points to Messi being better than Maradonna.

Your own argument that Maradonna is better is based on subjectivity, which is driven by nostalgia.

 

[Technics 1210]

If we want to talk about objectivity, everything points to Messi being better than Maradonna.

Your own argument that Maradonna is better is based on subjectivity, which is driven by nostalgia.

Yet your argument against Maradona is based on ignorance and YouTube videos.

I prefer subjectivity to ignorance, in this particular case.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

I watched both in their prime and Messi needed this to make the case for parity or better. Messi is a much better club footballer than Maradona- no real comparison even when you take into the account the thuggish nature of football in the 80s. What Maradona had was a single handed WC win in 86, taking a pretty average team to win a WC, Messi has had better teams around him and hadn't won the WC but ironically the WC win came with a team that can be best described as QFs. Messi grabbed this team around neck and took it to a Win. Messi takes it for me.

this Argentina team has a pretty mediocre core.

Keeper plays for villa, main center back is a city reject, full backs are mediocre

 

[Bewal Express]

this Argentina team has a pretty mediocre core.

Keeper plays for villa, main center back is a city reject, full backs are mediocre

That was my point.

 

[Bewal Express]

I am one of the few on here that watched the 86 WC and not highlight reels years later.

 

[Mamoon]

Argentina has spoken. Maradona is still their GOAT, they don't care about Messi as much as they respect & value Maradona - [MENTION=149166]Technics 1210[/MENTION]

Meanwhile Argentina:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Argentina are thinking of putting Lionel Messi face on the bank notes <a href="https://t.co/sxKT66Aq4B">pic.twitter.com/sxKT66Aq4B</a></p>— Frank Khalid (@FrankKhalidUK) <a href="https://twitter.com/FrankKhalidUK/status/1605617449302249472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 21, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Technics 1210]

Argentina has spoken. Maradona is still their GOAT, they don't care about Messi as much as they respect & value Maradona - [MENTION=149166]Technics 1210[/MENTION]

Meanwhile Argentina:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Argentina are thinking of putting Lionel Messi face on the bank notes <a href="https://t.co/sxKT66Aq4B">pic.twitter.com/sxKT66Aq4B</a></p>— Frank Khalid (@FrankKhalidUK) <a href="https://twitter.com/FrankKhalidUK/status/1605617449302249472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 21, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Please do catch up, Maradona pipped Messi on this news too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-55227530

Go home and have some rest.

)

 

[James]

Another reminder that this is just a chat about some footballers

 

[psyoptica]

Please do catch up, Maradona pipped Messi on this news too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-55227530

Go home and have some rest.

)

This news article is 2 years old

 

[Technics 1210]

This news article is 2 years old

Not sure what your point is, but a Messi fan posts a tweet thinking Messi is greater than Maradona because the Argentianan government are thinking of putting Messi on bank notes. Little did this fan realise, the Argentianan government had already thought the same with Maradona. Added bonus, Maradona could be on Argentinian stamps too.

And this said fan is a Google expert.

 

[The_KING]

Yet your argument against Maradona is based on ignorance and YouTube videos.

I prefer subjectivity to ignorance, in this particular case.

What?

This argument that you can't judge players because you didn't see them live is nonsense. In the same vein, you can't judge Pele, unless you are like 70+.

 

[Technics 1210]

What?

This argument that you can't judge players because you didn't see them live is nonsense. In the same vein, you can't judge Pele, unless you are like 70+.

I already said I cannot judge Pele as I never watched him live. Page 3 of this thread.

Though as an exercise to demonstrate the flaw in Messi fan logic, I cited Pele stats vs Messi stats, and stopped at WC wins, cos at that point, the debate ends. Pele > Messi. Unsurprisingly Messi fans remained silent. Also on page 3 of this thread.

And no, watching live is not nonsense, watching live provides context, something you cannot determine from Youtube videos.

 

[Major]

Btw they are adding measi on their currency notes in Argentina

 

[DRsohail]

Btw they are adding measi on their currency notes in Argentina

Waw

 

[happydavy]

Barcelona was richer than Napoli. If they wanted, they could have easily offered better terms if money was what Maradona was after which is not true.

However, Barcelona did not think it was worth it because Maradona was a nutcase. In other words they did not thing to stand in his way apart from milk Napoli for a high fee (obviously) because there is no way they could keep him at the club after the brawl.

Italy was the best league in the 80’s & 90’s but Napoli was not Juventus. It clearly wasn’t a decision based on footballing reasons. Maradona found his home in Naples because he could resonate with the city & the fans.

What Maradona achieved with Napoli is probably unparalleled in modern football, & I think that alone makes him a GOAT contender more so than winning the 86 World Cup.

However, based on what Messi has done over his career, his longevity & the way he handled the pressure of being the next Maradona & dominated both goal scoring & playmaking like no other player in history makes him the GOAT.

Nevertheless, it is hard to argue for any player other than Messi to be ranked above Maradona. His performance in the 86 World Cup (most dominating performance ever by an individual in a World Cup) & his achievements at Napoli tower over everything any player (except Messi) has ever done.

Wholeheartedly agree with your last para. What Maradona achieved at Napoli is unparalleled, it's a fascinating story that will be talked about until football gets discussed. Such was the love for him that a nurse who took his blood for a regular test, stole half of it and kept it in the church next to Jesus. No one absolutely no one has ever achieved even remotely close to what he did with that club.

 

[shaz619]

Who are in your guys top 2 or 3 most enjoyable to watch out of these names:

Messi
Diego
CR7
R9

?

For me R9 is no.1 , too much joy watching him dribble past GK’s and making defenders look like a novice lol

 

[The_KING]

Who are in your guys top 2 or 3 most enjoyable to watch out of these names:

Messi
Diego
CR7
R9

?

For me R9 is no.1 , too much joy watching him dribble past GK’s and making defenders look like a novice lol

Messi and R9 for me.

But the player I enjoyed watching the most was peak Ronaldinho.

 

[shaz619]

Messi and R9 for me.

But the player I enjoyed watching the most was peak Ronaldinho.

Ah yes, what a delight it was to watch those two in their prime in the same team!

 

[Technics 1210]

Messi and R9 for me.

But the player I enjoyed watching the most was peak Ronaldinho.

I still remember Ronaldinho's free kick vs England, in 2002 WC.

Till this day, the debate on whether it was a fluke, or intended, rages on.

https://youtu.be/0oq974EmpBo

 

[The_KING]

I still remember Ronaldinho's free kick vs England, in 2002 WC.

Till this day, the debate on whether it was a fluke, or intended, rages on.

https://youtu.be/0oq974EmpBo

I believe he meant it. But I suspect that the English still cry about it and label it a fluke.

 

[Technics 1210]

I believe he meant it. But I suspect that the English still cry about it and label it a fluke.

200%.

England still cry about Hand of God goal.

 

[The_KING]

200%.

England still cry about Hand of God goal.

While they conveniently forget about Maradonna’s goal of the century in the same game. English love to make excuses.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Who are in your guys top 2 or 3 most enjoyable to watch out of these names:

Messi
Diego
CR7
R9

?

For me R9 is no.1 , too much joy watching him dribble past GK’s and making defenders look like a novice lol

R9. There was nobody like him.

Man made most kids at the time walk avout with a triangle on their head.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone like him.

Messi is of course by far the better player.

But for sheer thrill and enjoyment its always Ronaldo, or Fat Ronaldo, or 'the real ronaldo'

 

[Technics 1210]

While they conveniently forget about Maradonna’s goal of the century in the same game. English love to make excuses.

That goal, ufff, acceptance of that goal from the English media, pundits, commentators, would mean forgetting about the Hand of God goal, and accepting the Goal of the century was sweet revenge for the Falklands war, but also defeat at a political level. Couldn't mustard the courage.

I watched a video where Lineker and Klinsmann commentated on the goal, and lo and behold, woke Lineker complained about a foul!

https://youtu.be/ZRol-2r_AhE

 

[Aman]

To be honest the first thought that came to my mind is how does the alleged King of football sleep in a cheap hack bed like that. Something straight out Travelodge.

This is a photo from his accommodation in Qatar.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Really not sure the relevance of your first paragraph, just sharing my thoughts, no idea what makes it emotional.

I could apply the same about Maradona towards you and your club but what relevance does that have?

As for Maradona I never saw him play live, it's all clips and documentaries and it's safe to say he was a genius, players we never got to see fully lives I think benefit from the misty eyed as we don't know about the bad games they had.

Players in this current era have way more scrutiny, every kick of a ball by Messi has been captured, same applies to CR7.

Ultimately, when it comes to comparing players from different eras it's difficult but the stats do help. Maradona had a 1 in 3 record for Argentina and his league scoring record was very good without being extraordinary.

What Messi and Ronaldo did in terms of numbers is put them some distance ahead of the rest. That's how you know players are a different level.

Maradona didn't do that and there will be various factors for it, the players he played with but also the limited scrutiny meant he could coast in games and there's no big deal. We see what happens when Messi or Ronaldo don't score, it creates huge drama.

As for Newcastle, once the league gets going I will share my views but in short I'm over the moon with how we have progressed so far.

By this logic, Pele is much better than Messi and should be GOAT.

https://michelacosta.com/messi-vs-ronaldo/messi-vs-pele-2/


The arguments used in the thread make little sense.

Overall to understand and compare greatness you will need to just look at the players, look at their ability with the ball, their character, inspiration, leadership and how many big trophies they have won.

For me the GOATS in order.

Maradona
Pele
Zidane
CR9
Messi.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

By this logic, Pele is much better than Messi and should be GOAT.

https://michelacosta.com/messi-vs-ronaldo/messi-vs-pele-2/


The arguments used in the thread make little sense.

Overall to understand and compare greatness you will need to just look at the players, look at their ability with the ball, their character, inspiration, leadership and how many big trophies they have won.

For me the GOATS in order.

Maradona
Pele
Zidane
CR9
Messi.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

View attachment 118243

Actually, I have no issue if someone wants to put Pele as the goat

For me, what let's Pele down is he played his entire career in Brazil, and perhaps that is a euro centric arrogance attached to it

When it comes to judging players I use a combination of the following

- Eye test, just watch them. It's clear Gerrard is better than Carrick by watching them play
- Stats, position specific. So strikers get judged on goals, playmakers by assists etc
- Achievements (which includes longevity)


Utilising the above, for me Messi is the goat but not bothered if someone makes the case for Pele.

What I'm absolutely certain about is Messi is the best of this era.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Actually, I have no issue if someone wants to put Pele as the goat

For me, what let's Pele down is he played his entire career in Brazil, and perhaps that is a euro centric arrogance attached to it

When it comes to judging players I use a combination of the following

- Eye test, just watch them. It's clear Gerrard is better than Carrick by watching them play
- Stats, position specific. So strikers get judged on goals, playmakers by assists etc
- Achievements (which includes longevity)


Utilising the above, for me Messi is the goat but not bothered if someone makes the case for Pele.

What I'm absolutely certain about is Messi is the best of this era.

I think the criteria is pretty good.

Watching - Pele is better because he could dribble, pass, shoot, tackle and esp head the ball which Messi is nowhere near.

Stats - Pele has a better ratio as per the link I posted.

Achievements - Pele by a distance , 3 world cups to 1.

I think by Era is the best way to judge , its the most fair way.

Pele - Maradona - CR9 - Zidane - Messi

 

[RexRex]

Can World Cups be a real barometer for greatness ? Someone like Haaland might turn out to be the GOAT but we all know Norway will never win a WC and so his legacy will be permanently stained, no fault of his own.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Can World Cups be a real barometer for greatness ? Someone like Haaland might turn out to be the GOAT but we all know Norway will never win a WC and so his legacy will be permanently stained, no fault of his own.

Its a fair point but those players even if played wouldn't have likely won the World Cup due to their national team. Haaland is still young and will play in the World Cup esp as the number of teams will be increased.

Some great players who never played the world cup.

Alfredo Di Stefano - Acc to Pele the best player he has ever seen.

George Best - Northern Ireland.

George Weah - Liberia - Ballondor winner.

 

[RexRex]

Alfredo Di Stefano - Acc to Pele the best player he has ever seen.

George Best - Northern Ireland.

George Weah - Liberia - Ballondor winner.

I agree. Unfortunately not many people talk about these players above. WC winners get all the attention.

 

[Firebat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&#55357;&#56803;️ “Nobody can doubt that he is there with the greatest of all-time.” <br><br>Pep Guardiola on Lionel Messi. &#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56823; <a href="https://t.co/kbmUNcjwxE">pic.twitter.com/kbmUNcjwxE</a></p>— Football Daily (@footballdaily) <a href="https://twitter.com/footballdaily/status/1605543505522204672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 21, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[PakLFC]

Well ya know Messi without doubt is an ATG but he didn't have the impact that Diego did when winning the WC. As for league and other tournaments Messi was well ahead. Diego's career was greatly effected by controversy like drug use and failed relationships. Messi's stable marriage means off the pitch he was much more secure meaning that he is the GOAT no doubt about it.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

I think the criteria is pretty good.

Watching - Pele is better because he could dribble, pass, shoot, tackle and esp head the ball which Messi is nowhere near.

Stats - Pele has a better ratio as per the link I posted.

Achievements - Pele by a distance , 3 world cups to 1.

I think by Era is the best way to judge , its the most fair way.

Pele - Maradona - CR9 - Zidane - Messi

I would suggest (though admittedly not looked into it too deeply) winning the World Cup with 16 teams in it was "easier" than when it was expanded to 32 in 1998, not only was there an additional game but whilst you got a few weaker nations you also got some stronger ones too.

Also, my point about those goals being scored in Brazil stands for me. Can't really verify the standards as opposed to more recent times.

I do agree best of era is a much easier judgment to make but got no issues with people making the claim for one player over the other

What is abundantly clear is Messi>CR7, that debate is well and truly done

 

[Aman]

I think the criteria is pretty good.

Watching - Pele is better because he could dribble, pass, shoot, tackle and esp head the ball which Messi is nowhere near.

Stats - Pele has a better ratio as per the link I posted.

Achievements - Pele by a distance , 3 world cups to 1.

I think by Era is the best way to judge , its the most fair way.

Pele - Maradona - CR9 - Zidane - Messi

No chance you objectively can put Zidane and CR ahead of Messi based on your criteria.

Infinitely a better leader who won everything for his country and crushes both on eye test. Zidane's numbers and accomplishments does not compare to Messi's. Only Madrid fan boys would put Zidane and CR ahead of Messi.

 

[Aman]

Well ya know Messi without doubt is an ATG but he didn't have the impact that Diego did when winning the WC. As for league and other tournaments Messi was well ahead. Diego's career was greatly effected by controversy like drug use and failed relationships. Messi's stable marriage means off the pitch he was much more secure meaning that he is the GOAT no doubt about it.

Messi literally had one of the all time great WC campaigns. His run with Argentina here surpasses Maradona's IMO and he has another golden ball winning WC campaign lol. It's over.

With that Messi scored 2 goals in the Final against the defending champions to Maradona's 0.

On the topic, who are these people putting Zidane and CR in this discussion. The table only consists of 3 who you can make an argument, bringing others in reeks of fan boyism.

 

[Aman]

Putting Zidane and CR ahead of Messi is the equivalent of putting Babar and Kane ahead of Sachin and Ponting.

Delusional.

 

[Aman]

Actually, I have no issue if someone wants to put Pele as the goat

For me, what let's Pele down is he played his entire career in Brazil, and perhaps that is a euro centric arrogance attached to it

When it comes to judging players I use a combination of the following

- Eye test, just watch them. It's clear Gerrard is better than Carrick by watching them play
- Stats, position specific. So strikers get judged on goals, playmakers by assists etc
- Achievements (which includes longevity)


Utilising the above, for me Messi is the goat but not bothered if someone makes the case for Pele.

What I'm absolutely certain about is Messi is the best of this era.

You can put Messi, Pele and Maradona in any order. That's your top 3 locked. It has been the case for me for a while, but others have slowly started to get around to it. Messi's WC title, his level of performance and the leadership he showed puts him on top for me.

There are only 3 GOAT contenders who tick all the boxes.

Putting anyone else ahead of these 3 reeks of bias.

 

[Aman]

Well ya know Messi without doubt is an ATG but he didn't have the impact that Diego did when winning the WC.

Idk how anyone can say this with a straight face [MENTION=138670]The_KING[/MENTION] [MENTION=116]Geordie Ahmed[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

You literally just saw his WC campaign.

Another Ronaldo fan trying to downplay Messi out of pettiness/keep their boys legacy relevant?

 

[Aman]

I think the criteria is pretty good.

Watching - Pele is better because he could dribble, pass, shoot, tackle and esp head the ball which Messi is nowhere near.

Stats - Pele has a better ratio as per the link I posted.

Achievements - Pele by a distance , 3 world cups to 1.

I think by Era is the best way to judge , its the most fair way.

Pele - Maradona - CR9 - Zidane - Messi

1) Pele literally barely participated in one of those WCs.

2) He had a super team equivalent to what Mbappe has today and Neymar with Brazil.

 

[Aman]

Messi an inspiring leader? I have heard it all now. Yes Messi has skillz and talent, but an inspiring leader? This is the guy who bailed on Argentina (resigned from international duties) in a strop cos he lost a final vs Chile.

Maradona was spot on, Messi has no personality/charisma which is why Messi is not a natural leader, let alone an inspiring leader.

Regardless, both infinitely more inspiring and better leaders than CR5. Madrid, Juve, Utd and Portugal booted him out.

 

[Mamoon]

Idk how anyone can say this with a straight face [MENTION=138670]The_KING[/MENTION] [MENTION=116]Geordie Ahmed[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

You literally just saw his WC campaign.

Another Ronaldo fan trying to downplay Messi out of pettiness/keep their boys legacy relevant?

Apart from the Poland match, Messi was Man of the Match in every Argentinian win. He dominated almost every key stat: goals, assists, chances created, dribbles completed, passes/key passes etc.

Moreover, you don’t even need stats to know that Messi was phenomenal. You could see him control the game in every match including the one against Saudi Arabia where Argentina scored 3 marginal off-side goals.

You don’t need any numbers to know that Messi followed by Mbappe were the two best players of the World Cup.

Ronaldo fans who have become experts on Maradona overnight would have you believe that Maradona was also the goalkeeper in 1986.

No doubt his World Cup was probably better than Messi’s at an individual level, but we also need to take into consideration the fact that the level of competition is better now.

Most top teams in this World Cup are better than what they were in 1986.

 

[WengerOut]

I have not seen Pele, Maradona, Cruyff etc. But R9, Zidane, Bergkamp and Messi are the players who consistently performed and played the beautiful game the way it should be played in the time i started watching football . Other machines these days are all result oriented and shielded by stats.

 

[Mamoon]

I have not seen Pele, Maradona, Cruyff etc. But R9, Zidane, Bergkamp and Messi are the players who consistently performed and played the beautiful game the way it should be played in the time i started watching football . Other machines these days are all result oriented and shielded by stats.

You should add Iniesta, Xavi, Modric & Pirlo to your list too. Amazing to watch.

 

[WengerOut]

You should add Iniesta, Xavi, Modric & Pirlo to your list too. Amazing to watch.

Yeah, i just mentioned the first 4 names. Jay Jay Okocha, Abou Diaby etc are some of the unheralded ones. If i were given a chance to select between Diaby and Messi to watch, i would prefer the former.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Idk how anyone can say this with a straight face [MENTION=138670]The_KING[/MENTION] [MENTION=116]Geordie Ahmed[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

You literally just saw his WC campaign.

Another Ronaldo fan trying to downplay Messi out of pettiness/keep their boys legacy relevant?

Yeah, that's just absolute nonsense

Scored or assisted 10 out of 15 goals
Scored in 6 out of 7 matches
Scored the first penalty for Argentina in 2 crucial penalty shoot outs
MOTM in 5 out of 7 matches
Second most chances created in the World Cup
Joint most big chances created in the World Cup

The above all done at 35 years old with an immense amount of pressure is a snapshot of why he did have that impact, to suggest otherwise can only be the act of someone trying to like you say downplay his impact so as to somehow validate a different player

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

No chance you objectively can put Zidane and CR ahead of Messi based on your criteria.

Infinitely a better leader who won everything for his country and crushes both on eye test. Zidane's numbers and accomplishments does not compare to Messi's. Only Madrid fan boys would put Zidane and CR ahead of Messi.

Tbf I don't think he is putting them ahead, at least I hope he isn't

I think he was regarding them as different eras

 

[Technics 1210]

Regardless, both infinitely more inspiring and better leaders than CR5. Madrid, Juve, Utd and Portugal booted him out.

Booting a player out has no bearing on said player achievements, plus wanting to leave is not the same as being booted out.

Personally I love my sporting anti-heroes - Maradona, CR7, McEnroe, Alex Higgins, Jimmy White etc.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No chance you objectively can put Zidane and CR ahead of Messi based on your criteria.

Infinitely a better leader who won everything for his country and crushes both on eye test. Zidane's numbers and accomplishments does not compare to Messi's. Only Madrid fan boys would put Zidane and CR ahead of Messi.

Its in order of GOAT per era.

Its impossible to have a criteria so accurate when football evolves. If Maradona was playing in this era, nobody imo would even doubt he is greater than Messi. IT would be Diego wearing the no.10 shirt.

Zidane could do things Messi couldnt and vice versa.

 

[The_KING]

Idk how anyone can say this with a straight face [MENTION=138670]The_KING[/MENTION] [MENTION=116]Geordie Ahmed[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

You literally just saw his WC campaign.

Another Ronaldo fan trying to downplay Messi out of pettiness/keep their boys legacy relevant?

That is the biggest joke I have heard. )

Literally everything Argentina created came through Messi. Without Messi's playmaking abilities in the midfield, Argentina would have barely scored a goal. Messi's impact was there for everyone to see.

 

[Technics 1210]

Messi should kiss the feet of Martinez. So called Messi campaign couldn't beat Netherland or France in normal/extra time.

Maradona wrapped it up before any penalty shootout.

Facts do not care about feelings.

 

[Yossarian]

In this debate about Messi v Maradona, it is being assumed that the GOAT is a contest just between these two, whilst forgetting about another fella, who at this moment is literally about to leave this world, who also is considered by many as the GOAT. A chap called Pele.

In my opinion, Pele and Maradona are equally GOAT, whilst Messi has a good argument for also joining that top table.

Each one played in different eras, each with different advantages and disadvantages.

Taking it in descending chronological order, From Pele to Maradona to Messi:

* As time went on the players they played with and against were generally fitter, faster, more athletic.
* There was better and better protection from referees due to a number of reasons
> Better referees. Fitter referees.
> Rule changes
> Tv exposure and tv replays highlighting dirty and dangerous play by opposition taking out (injuring) the best opposition players
> More recently like VAR

* Better training, traveling, and medical facilities
* Better pitches
* No of subs allowed (from none to now 5, even 6 or 7 if taking into account extra time subs or subs due to concussion). All this allows players to be better rested.

All these factors have important roles to play.

Would Maradona and Pele have played even better if opposition were not allowed to hack them down and get away with it?
Would Maradona's dribbling skills have been even better on better pitches?
Would Messi have been even better in an era where the opposition defenders were not as fastor as healthy due to drink, smoking, type of diet, etc.?
Would Messi have lasted as long with big defenders hacking at his legs without fear of being punished by refs?

In terms of pure skill, C. Ronaldo does even come close to the other 3. But by taking advantage of many of the modern factors listed, especially the way he looks after his health and diet, stats wise he's on a par with Messi (except for not winning the World Cup - but that also is affected by the quality of his team mates compared to the others)

So who would be better amongst Pele, Maradona, and Messi if they all played in the same era? In my opinion, roughly equal with each other.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

In this debate about Messi v Maradona, it is being assumed that the GOAT is a contest just between these two, whilst forgetting about another fella, who at this moment is literally about to leave this world, who also is considered by many as the GOAT. A chap called Pele.

In my opinion, Pele and Maradona are equally GOAT, whilst Messi has a good argument for also joining that top table.

Each one played in different eras, each with different advantages and disadvantages.

Taking it in descending chronological order, From Pele to Maradona to Messi:

* As time went on the players they played with and against were generally fitter, faster, more athletic.
* There was better and better protection from referees due to a number of reasons
> Better referees. Fitter referees.
> Rule changes
> Tv exposure and tv replays highlighting dirty and dangerous play by opposition taking out (injuring) the best opposition players
> More recently like VAR

* Better training, traveling, and medical facilities
* Better pitches
* No of subs allowed (from none to now 5, even 6 or 7 if taking into account extra time subs or subs due to concussion). All this allows players to be better rested.

All these factors have important roles to play.

Would Maradona and Pele have played even better if opposition were not allowed to hack them down and get away with it?
Would Maradona's dribbling skills have been even better on better pitches?
Would Messi have been even better in an era where the opposition defenders were not as fastor as healthy due to drink, smoking, type of diet, etc.?
Would Messi have lasted as long with big defenders hacking at his legs without fear of being punished by refs?

In terms of pure skill, C. Ronaldo does even come close to the other 3. But by taking advantage of many of the modern factors listed, especially the way he looks after his health and diet, stats wise he's on a par with Messi (except for not winning the World Cup - but that also is affected by the quality of his team mates compared to the others)

So who would be better amongst Pele, Maradona, and Messi if they all played in the same era? In my opinion, roughly equal with each other.

Stats is one thing and it’s definitely a very powerful entity; however personal likes and dislikes vary from person to person, many at times, stepping over the stats and records.

Skill and talent wise, I think Ronaldinho was better than all of them.

I think this guy was on some sorta spectrum of Autism.
And if you notice closely, you can also see some very, very mild signs of down syndrome in his facial features.

In the football playing sense, his brain would think and process the situation a second ahead of the rest, making his body pro-act instead of react.
He already knew what’s gonna happen.

IMO, his play, at times, made him look like as if he was from another planet.

 

[Yossarian]

Stats is one thing and it’s definitely a very powerful entity; however personal likes and dislikes vary from person to person, many at times, stepping over the stats and records.

Skill and talent wise, I think Ronaldinho was better than all of them.

I think this guy was on some sorta spectrum of Autism.
And if you notice closely, you can also see some very, very mild signs of down syndrome in his facial features.

In the football playing sense, his brain would think and process the situation a second ahead of the rest, making his body pro-act instead of react.
He already knew what’s gonna happen.

IMO, his play, at times, made him look like as if he was from another planet.

I agree. On a similar vein, considering him only at his peak years, The first or 'Fat' Ronaldo, in my opinion, was better than C.Ronaldo at his peak, and would also have been knocking on the door of the top table had it not been for other factors like injuries.

 

[PakLFC]

Messi literally had one of the all time great WC campaigns. His run with Argentina here surpasses Maradona's IMO and he has another golden ball winning WC campaign lol. It's over.

With that Messi scored 2 goals in the Final against the defending champions to Maradona's 0.

On the topic, who are these people putting Zidane and CR in this discussion. The table only consists of 3 who you can make an argument, bringing others in reeks of fan boyism.

Messi did not have any 1986 moment that Diego did when he ran through the English defence. Also Diego was not a penalty taker like Messi did. One or Messi WCF goals was a penalty too if memory serves me right. Once again Messi did not have the same influence that Diego had in 1986 but all things considered he is the better player.

 

[PakLFC]

Idk how anyone can say this with a straight face [MENTION=138670]The_KING[/MENTION] [MENTION=116]Geordie Ahmed[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

You literally just saw his WC campaign.

Another Ronaldo fan trying to downplay Messi out of pettiness/keep their boys legacy relevant?

Most sensible Football fans are Ronaldo fans too as well as Messi ones. We are allowed to be both as well or do you have a problem with that?. It seem you have obviously not see Diego Maradona at his best so won't know how awesome he could be.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Messi did not have any 1986 moment that Diego did when he ran through the English defence. Also Diego was not a penalty taker like Messi did. One or Messi WCF goals was a penalty too if memory serves me right. Once again Messi did not have the same influence that Diego had in 1986 but all things considered he is the better player.

The Croatia run and the Mexico long range goals are similar moments

 

[PakLFC]

The Croatia run and the Mexico long range goals are similar moments

Oh no they are not. Messi can never do a Maradona 1986 versus England that is still remembered almost 40 years on. Look at the skill and the balance!!

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Oh no they are not. Messi can never do a Maradona 1986 versus England that is still remembered almost 40 years on. Look at the skill and the balance!!

Messi did that when he was 20 lol

 

[sweep_shot]

Oh no they are not. Messi can never do a Maradona 1986 versus England that is still remembered almost 40 years on. Look at the skill and the balance!!

One of the greatest goals of all time considering the context.

 

[PakLFC]

Messi did that when he was 20 lol

In the World Cup?

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

In the World Cup?

Not in the World Cup but it was in La Liga

Whilst Messi didn't do that goal in the World Cup he's still provided special goals/assists

If we're counting what one has over the other then Messi has scored 449 goals more than Maradona

 

[PakLFC]

Not in the World Cup but it was in La Liga

Whilst Messi didn't do that goal in the World Cup he's still provided special goals/assists

If we're counting what one has over the other then Messi has scored 449 goals more than Maradona

That is why Messi is the GOAT but Diego better in the WC.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Lionel Messi's Room In Qatar To Be Converted Into Museum To Commemorate Argentina's FIFA World Cup Triumph.

Argentine star Lionel Messi's hotel room in Qatar, where he stayed during the 2022 FIFA World Cup, will be transformed into a museum as announced by Qatar University on Wednesday. Messi and Sergio Aguero shared a room near the end of Argentina's victorious World Cup campaign. The room will no longer host visitors, GOAL.com quoted Qatari news agency QNA. Instead, it has been reported that there are plans to turn the space into a small museum, with the Paris Saint-Germain star's possessions being preserved in all their splendour for other students and tourists.

https://sports.ndtv.com/fifa-world-...up-triumph-3645460#pfrom=home-ndtv_uktrending