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Maybe we just don't have quality cricketers coming through right now

Badsha

T20I Debutant
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
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We keep arguing over who to bring in, who to take out. People are even suggested ancient Hafeez to be back.

I think it's time to realize Fakhar, Babar, Imam are the best we have in the batting dept right now.

Amir, Shaheen, Shadab is the best we have as bowlers.

Yes there are areas to improve but overall we just don't have quality.
 
This is the only truth. All these Sahibzada Farhans, Saud Shakeels, XYZ etc. that we lionize are 99% likely to be out of of their depth against the top teams as well.

We have been reduced to a very mediocre cricketing nation that has lost its glory. We have been left behind post 90s and are no match to the top teams anymore. I think that our sporadic, flash in the pan wins will soon become history as well.

I can see us becoming minnows eventually with the likes of Afghanistan surpassing us, especially in Limited Overs. Test cricket won't last long enough to see the minnow status of Pakistan. However, in ODIs and T20Is, I see us at the bottom of the pile within 10-15 years.

Pakistan cricket is dying a slow death - the sooner we realize, the lesser our disappointment will be.
 
Lol, there is a difference. You give India a mediocre player and they will find a way to get the best out of him and bring his skills, fitness and output up to date.

In Pakistan there is no such thing.
 
This is the only truth. All these Sahibzada Farhans, Saud Shakeels, XYZ etc. that we lionize are 99% likely to be out of of their depth against the top teams as well.

We have been reduced to a very mediocre cricketing nation that has lost its glory. We have been left behind post 90s and are no match to the top teams anymore. I think that our sporadic, flash in the pan wins will soon become history as well.

I can see us becoming minnows eventually with the likes of Afghanistan surpassing us, especially in Limited Overs. Test cricket won't last long enough to see the minnow status of Pakistan. However, in ODIs and T20Is, I see us at the bottom of the pile within 10-15 years.

Pakistan cricket is dying a slow death - the sooner we realize, the lesser our disappointment will be
.


This is simply not true. 2012-2015 were some of our worst LOI performances and we have done alright since.

We have decent players coming through but we just are nowhere near the quality of India that's my point
 
We just lack in talent horribly at the moment and our playing xi apart from may be 1 or 2 changes is the best we have and sadly they are not talented enough to compete with the big nations. Time to move on from cricket, will always keep an eye for one of a generation talent that we will keep churning and that is the only interest I have left in pak cricket.
Good bye guys and thank you for all the great members we have here.
 
Lol, there is a difference. You give India a mediocre player and they will find a way to get the best out of him and bring his skills, fitness and output up to date.

In Pakistan there is no such thing.

Fair point -- we should have done better today but let's not get frustrated. Azam, Imam, Fakhar are talented players. Let's hope they learn from this.
 
This is the only truth. All these Sahibzada Farhans, Saud Shakeels, XYZ etc. that we lionize are 99% likely to be out of of their depth against the top teams as well.

We have been reduced to a very mediocre cricketing nation that has lost its glory. We have been left behind post 90s and are no match to the top teams anymore. I think that our sporadic, flash in the pan wins will soon become history as well.

I can see us becoming minnows eventually with the likes of Afghanistan surpassing us, especially in Limited Overs. Test cricket won't last long enough to see the minnow status of Pakistan. However, in ODIs and T20Is, I see us at the bottom of the pile within 10-15 years.

Pakistan cricket is dying a slow death - the sooner we realize, the lesser our disappointment will be.

With due respect, the only issue I have with your statement is that you predict "death" of cricket in Pakistan after every series.

It was predicted even in Champions Trophy but look where it got you.

I would be more realistic instead of assuming all things are hopeless and lost causes.
 
With due respect, the only issue I have with your statement is that you predict "death" of cricket in Pakistan after every series.

It was predicted even in Champions Trophy but look where it got you.

I would be more realistic instead of assuming all things are hopeless and lost causes.
Pakistani team should burn their kits, perhaps :kakmal
 
With due respect, the only issue I have with your statement is that you predict "death" of cricket in Pakistan after every series.

It was predicted even in Champions Trophy but look where it got you.

I would be more realistic instead of assuming all things are hopeless and lost causes.

Predicting a death is stupid.

If Bangla cricket is a live after two decades of embarrassment, we're not going anywhere (iA) but I think we may see some dips
 
This is simply not true. 2012-2015 were some of our worst LOI performances and we have done alright since.

We have decent players coming through but we just are nowhere near the quality of India that's my point

I think that is an illusion. We have done a lot of minnow bashing post Champions Trophy which was clearly a flash in the pan. Since the Champions Trophy, we have played 7 ODIs against quality teams and we have lost all 7.

In 2012-2015, we played plenty of tough series that even this so-called improved team are failing in. Even in that dark era, we managed a few one-off wins against the likes of India and South Africa.

People talk about Sarfraz's captaincy improving the team, but Azhar lead Pakistan to 15 consecutive ODIs against full-strength Australian and English teams. How do you think Sarfraz would fare in such circumstances? He will get thrashed.

There is hardly any difference between this team and the Misbah era team. In fact I would wager that the 2012-2015 would beat this team. Ajmal and Hafeez with their darts along with Afridi would reduce this shambolic batting lineup to a rubble, where glorified tail-enders like Shadab and Faheem are batting at positions where other teams are playing specialist batsmen.

The only thing this team has over that team is Babar and perhaps Fakhar. However, Babar has low impact and Fakhar fires once in a while. Yes Malik is much better now, but considering the superiority of our spin attack in that era, that team would probably win more games.
 
Predicting a death is stupid.

If Bangla cricket is a live after two decades of embarrassment, we're not going anywhere (iA) but I think we may see some dips

Death does not imply that we will stop playing cricket. Of course that will not happen, but we are already witnessing our cricket going south. It is a slow process of course, but it is happening.
 
Afridi was right

I blame the younger generation, I went to Pakistan to try and find a game of cricket in the streets, but these kids are more interested in photography and pretending to be on their phones for a cool fb pic
 
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With due respect, the only issue I have with your statement is that you predict "death" of cricket in Pakistan after every series.

It was predicted even in Champions Trophy but look where it got you.

I would be more realistic instead of assuming all things are hopeless and lost causes.

The Champions Trophy was a one-off event. West Indies were deep in their decline in 2004, but they won it
in an era where the legendary Australian team was at the peak of its powers. One-off successes will still happen, but we cannot deny that we are not deeply regressing as a cricket nation.
 
Sure, that’s why you have team Managment. For the last five years at least Pakistan is struggling to find fluent top order batsmen. Bring back hafeez wont solve that because he is as cowardly as the others with the difference that he has been like this forever. I would counsel some patience but at the same time some wounds are self inflicted eg imam.
 
OP, are you suggesting this Pakistan doesn't have enough quality to restrict Afghanistan to a total below 257? The skill level is there and the potential is definitely there, but look at the attitude of almost everyone out there. I wanted to start this rona dhona right after Afghanistan game, but since we won it would have been in bad taste. This has been the worst performance I have ever since the CT13.
 
We need more games against the better teams so that the dross can be exposed and sacked. Unfortunately,this is the best we have and on the whole these are the guys that will play in the WC next year.
 
Sure, that’s why you have team Managment. For the last five years at least Pakistan is struggling to find fluent top order batsmen. Bring back hafeez wont solve that because he is as cowardly as the others with the difference that he has been like this forever. I would counsel some patience but at the same time some wounds are self inflicted eg imam.

Is Imam any worse than Shazad, Hafeez etc? I agree he isnt good but he certainly aint any worse.
 
Quality is there, just that the team is in bad form now. If Pak play at 90% of their potential they will win more often than not against a Kohli-less India.
 
Perhaps if by a miracle Pakistan win the WC next year, it can lead to the younger generations having a renewed interest in cricket.

Sarfraz seems lost and fat child who is going through his timeout period.

I would say to start tabula rasa and keep one player who is over 30 and make him the captain. Not Malik because he is not reliable when given the responsibility and is on the wrong side of 30.

Give the fans a new team with no mental baggage of international pressure.

Rohail Nazir, Fakhar Zaman, Babar Azam, Saud Shakeel, Saif Badar, Saad Ali, Mohammad H (forgot last name as the WK), Zafar Gohar, SSA, Hasan Ali, Shaur Ahmed.

Even if they lose the next 15 ODI’s, at least they will have the experience and exposure to compete.
 
Maybe just as much as the talent, it's the system to blame. A professional cricket team shouldn't be dropping the dollies we do on such a regular basis for a start. Been said so many times, but we need to invest in the grass roots and domestic infrastructure, otherwise the gulf in quality will remain between us and the top teams no matter who we next bring in.
 
The Champions Trophy was a one-off event. West Indies were deep in their decline in 2004, but they won it
in an era where the legendary Australian team was at the peak of its powers. One-off successes will still happen, but we cannot deny that we are not deeply regressing as a cricket nation.

Windies win doesn't have anything to do with Australia's team since the were already knocked out by England..and they won by A rearguard last wicket partnership whilst Pakistan absolutely hammered India and England.
Windies most experienced players were Lara- Chanderpaul-Sarwan-
Now compare that to Hafeez and malik.
 
The simple reason is India have a professional system run by individuals with less selfish intentions than ours.

This over the course of 15-20 years has resulted in a widened gap between the two sides.

Whatever Pakistan has won is despite their resources and not because of them. It is the opposite for India.

The story of Pakistan cricket has become the mirror of Pakistan overall.

Riddled by nepotism and corruption and making cricket a way of emassing vast amounts of personal fortunes, has resulted in a steep and steady decline
 
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Windies win doesn't have anything to do with Australia's team since the were already knocked out by England..and they won by A rearguard last wicket partnership whilst Pakistan absolutely hammered India and England.
Windies most experienced players were Lara- Chanderpaul-Sarwan-
Now compare that to Hafeez and malik.

The point is that weak teams can have their glory days. A mediocre English team knocked out a legendary Australian team, paving the way for a weak West Indies team to lift the trophy.

Similarly, almost everything that could go right for us in the Champions Trophy did go right. If we play the same team in the conditions, we will not win the trophy 99/100 times. Some people are still laboring under the delusions that we will click in England again next summer and could win the World Cup. No we will not - lightning does not strike twice.

We cannot live off the Champions Trophy anymore and need to get it out of our system. We ignored the first reality check (New Zealand ODIs) but we should not ignore this humiliation. What will happen when we will inevitably have an underwhelming World Cup in our favorite venue England? Where do we go from there?
 
Is Imam any worse than Shazad, Hafeez etc? I agree he isnt good but he certainly aint any worse.

He is more of the same. But this is what we want to move away from:fakhar is sharjeel light who is trying his best and the team defends on heavily, and he is partnered by a sluggish imam and and equally sluggish starter babar zaman. In my option this line up has the luxury of trying a more dynamic opener
 
The point is that weak teams can have their glory days. A mediocre English team knocked out a legendary Australian team, paving the way for a weak West Indies team to lift the trophy.

Similarly, almost everything that could go right for us in the Champions Trophy did go right. If we play the same team in the conditions, we will not win the trophy 99/100 times. Some people are still laboring under the delusions that we will click in England again next summer and could win the World Cup. No we will not - lightning does not strike twice.

We cannot live off the Champions Trophy anymore and need to get it out of our system. We ignored the first reality check (New Zealand ODIs) but we should not ignore this humiliation. What will happen when we will inevitably have an underwhelming World Cup in our favorite venue England? Where do we go from there?

For me, winning major tournaments but being super inconsistent in billateral ODI's and series is not good enough. Even the WI have won the T-20 WC two times in a row and in these big tournaments one bady day can cost you the whole tournament, but everyone knows where the WI team is in quality.

Pakistan after the CT win still persisted with Azhar Ali in the ODI squad and is still persisting with 5-6 accumulators in the ODI team when other teams have minimum SR of 90's requirements, if the team is losing then why not give someone like Shahibzada Farhan, Sohail Akhtar who boast of impressive domestic SR's a go? What is the worst that can happen? That they will fail as well?
 
I can see us becoming minnows eventually with the likes of Afghanistan surpassing us, especially in Limited Overs. Test cricket won't last long enough to see the minnow status of Pakistan. However, in ODIs and T20Is, I see us at the bottom of the pile within 10-15 years.

Pakistan cricket is dying a slow death - the sooner we realize, the lesser our disappointment will be.

In ODIs, we're a middling team. There's clear blue water between us and the top 4 of India, England, Australia (at full strength) and New Zealand. However, we have enough to beat the bottom 5 of Sri Lanka, West Indies, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, and Zimbabwe more often than not.

South Africa are on the wane with the loss of key players so you can argue they're reaching similar mid-table category, but will beat us on home soil, with us winning in Asia.
 
The reason that our batsmen and especially the openers struggle to rotate strike is that they are very weak on the back foot. They only know to play on the front foot.

Just bowl good legth balls into their bodies and the only answer they ll have is to block it.

This is exactly what happened with fakhar. Teams have come to know that he has got a very weak back foot play. So they just keep bowling a good channel into his body and the pressure keeps building.

Yes maybe he wont get out and ll stay out there, but he wont be able to play his role to attack the bowlers.

Thats why sharjeel was superior, bcz he was exceptional at the pull and hook shots. Bowlers were afraid of sharjeel, bcz in back of their minds they knew if they ll be even a little bit off their lines. Sharjeel ll murder them. Unfortunately thats not the case with fakhar. Bowlers arent afraid of fakhar anymore, bcz they have exposed him.

When u got a weak back foot game u must be strong at the pull and hook shot otherwise u ll struggle.
 
The reason that our batsmen and especially the openers struggle to rotate strike is that they are very weak on the back foot. They only know to play on the front foot.

Just bowl good legth balls into their bodies and the only answer they ll have is to block it.

This is exactly what happened with fakhar. Teams have come to know that he has got a very weak back foot play. So they just keep bowling a good channel into his body and the pressure keeps building.

Yes maybe he wont get out and ll stay out there, but he wont be able to play his role to attack the bowlers.

Thats why sharjeel was superior, bcz he was exceptional at the pull and hook shots. Bowlers were afraid of sharjeel, bcz in back of their minds they knew if they ll be even a little bit off their lines. Sharjeel ll murder them. Unfortunately thats not the case with fakhar. Bowlers arent afraid of fakhar anymore, bcz they have exposed him.

When u got a weak back foot game u must be strong at the pull and hook shot otherwise u ll struggle.
Pretty much why sharjeel is a huge loss. He was very good on the back foot.
 
The point is that weak teams can have their glory days. A mediocre English team knocked out a legendary Australian team, paving the way for a weak West Indies team to lift the trophy.

Similarly, almost everything that could go right for us in the Champions Trophy did go right. If we play the same team in the conditions, we will not win the trophy 99/100 times. Some people are still laboring under the delusions that we will click in England again next summer and could win the World Cup. No we will not - lightning does not strike twice.

We cannot live off the Champions Trophy anymore and need to get it out of our system. We ignored the first reality check (New Zealand ODIs) but we should not ignore this humiliation. What will happen when we will inevitably have an underwhelming World Cup in our favorite venue England? Where do we go from there?

Every team need luck to win, today India got lucky with fakhar not reviewing, he is the only player that could have won this for Pakistan and losing him like that was a massive turning point.
Pakistan will always produce quality players due to cricket being the only sport we really play.
Look at the associates full of Pakistan players.
What Pakistan isn't producing is a superstar cricketer, Someone like a Shoaib Akhtar.

No other country could play away from home for as long as we have done and still win trophies, T20 WC and ICC champions trophy.

I can't see Pakistan getting close to winning the world cup with this team.
 
Here we go again. 1st of all this PAK team has huge potential. The young players can become really good players. This Indian team is WC and specially in these conditions.

Playing more against the top teams will do the team good. Players will understand they need to hit that next level.
 
Here we go again. 1st of all this PAK team has huge potential. The young players can become really good players. This Indian team is WC and specially in these conditions.

Playing more against the top teams will do the team good. Players will understand they need to hit that next level.
Yes, out itinerary from now till the World Cup will go a long way in preparing us for the World Cup
 
If we look at indian batting their top 4-5 batsmen have averages more than 45. Fakhar was brought into the team since he had similar average in domestic. So better find such players and induct them in team
 
I don’t know about quality cricketers but there is one thing I know, our players lack the learning capacity as compared to the high quality cricketing nations. We throw a new guy into the ring and he sets the world on fire, but in a few matches ppl figure him out. So then it becomes a learning competition. Who ever learn more and apply that knowledge into the match becomes the star. Unfortunately, our players lack that capacity. Fakhar Zaman is the most recent example.
 
Every team need luck to win, today India got lucky with fakhar not reviewing, he is the only player that could have won this for Pakistan and losing him like that was a massive turning point.
Its very short-sighted if you are dependent on luck to win. That would mean you would need a lot of it, first for the opposition to under-perform and if that won't happen then hope your own team performs. Statistically that would be too far fetched. Perhaps your vision is shared by the PCB when selecting the team
 
We are leaving in fools paradise, Accept the fact we have are no where near any of top teams. Further to this we have mental block against India. Also no comparison of skill levels between Indian and Pakistani batsmen. We lack game awareness, It will take century now for Pakistani cricket to come in terms to match India cricket this is a fact. We may win odd match here or there but will not perform on consistence basis.
 
He is more of the same. But this is what we want to move away from:fakhar is sharjeel light who is trying his best and the team defends on heavily, and he is partnered by a sluggish imam and and equally sluggish starter babar zaman. In my option this line up has the luxury of trying a more dynamic opener

What makes you think that Sharjeel is any better than FZ? No way could Sharjeel ever play the innings that FZ did in the CT last year. We dont have quality players waiting in the wings, any player that comes in will be at best need a year or 2 to adapt and even then there is no guarantee they will be any good.
 
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Really only guys that I've completely backed are Fakhar, Haris, Imad and Amir.

Imam I'm still not sure how he got selected. It wasn't on merit most likely.

Babar is good and will be great hopefully, just one thing about him, he seems a bit naive I think. Has to increase intelligence in batting.

Malik is past his prime but we still need a senior pro in the team at all times. Either Hafeez, Malik, or Azhar. I don't care who it is but an experienced player is needed.

Sarfraz needs to improve his fitness. He is a wicket-keeper first and that should be his main priority. And he's not good enough as a batsman to bat in the Top 5. 6 or 7 is fine. His place in the team is safe as there aren't any WK options to replace him.

Shadab is a good cricketer at the domestic level but he has never deserved a spot in the national team. His selection was our hype off a pure PSL and lucky WI series. Drop him. There are other leggies that are much better and Shadab's batting is only good enough for #8 or 9.

Asif Ali is a good hitter but his job can be done by 2-3 bowlers chipping in. You don't need a specialist power-hitter at 6 in ODIs, so if Asif wants to stay in the team he should open.

Nawaz is a bits and pieces cricketer. He is young and has potential but needs to concentrate on one asset of his game and improve.

Hasan will be good but not an ATG like everyone is hyping him. I see more potential in him to become an all-rounder. His bowling won't ever be spearhead level.

Faheem is a good asset in overseas Tests as a fourth pacer. His bowling isn't up to the mark in the shorter formats.

Shaheen is excellent. He can be a great if he keeps his down and works for it. Also will need some luck which he isn't getting atm.

Shinwari, Rumman and Junaid are redundant as we already have two left-armers in Amir and Shaheen and right-arm bowlers are needed more. The former three also lack an X-factor which is needed for fast bowlers.

Now I look at the team and I see the players that have to start are: Fakhar, Babar, Haris, Malik, Imad, Sarfraz, Hasan, Amir and Shaheen.

Players needed to complete this XI are a batsman (preferably a RH opener), and a bowler (leg-spinner in Asia, RH pacer outside Asia). A second spinner (ROB or SLA) and backup WK, should also be kept in the squad as cover.
 
Its very short-sighted if you are dependent on luck to win. That would mean you would need a lot of it, first for the opposition to under-perform and if that won't happen then hope your own team performs. Statistically that would be too far fetched. Perhaps your vision is shared by the PCB when selecting the team

I wasn't talking about vision, to win a league or cup you need the luck to go in your favour. I remember Man Utd treble winning team down and getting dominated by Bayern munich, they had a lot of chances to kill the game off. Hit the post a few times and then Man Utd finished them off in the last few minutes or when Jt slipped taking his penalty V man Utd.
 
What makes you think that Sharjeel is any better than FZ? No way could Sharjeel ever play the innings that FZ did in the CT last year. We dont have quality players waiting in the wings, any player that comes in will be at best need a year or 2 to adapt and even then there is no guarantee they will be any good.
I have nothing against playing fakhar, it’s his partner that I am worried about
 
Have been seeing quite a few threads like this at various points over the past 3 years, in which some posters spell out the impending doom and gloom Pakistan will be indulged in the immediate future. It is because of these threads and the overtly over the top ones, that is it important that we reflect on how reactive our opinions and judgements have become. I mean, all our set opinions can literally flip a 180 after just one match.

If we reflect back at this game and the last one, we'll see that it was simply the case of lack of self-belief. It is also likely that this belief has detoriated due to many things not going our way. The fielding has been atrocious, players not confident in taking reviews and getting run-out at crucial points in the innings. I think they all stem from the player's lack of faith in their abilities. The body language too looks a bit droopy.

One thing that people are constantly glossing over, is how young our team actually is. We have like 5 players in the team who have played less than 20. Inexperience on the big stage was bound to show. With youngsters like, Shinwari, Shaheen, Hasan, Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Shadab and Faheem, how can we think that we lack skills? I find it quite baffling.

The skills are definitely there. Shadab and Hasan are extremely gifted and talented players, and I'm sure they will bounce back. Imam and Fakhar, have both got some solid starts, but just need to get one big one against a top side to get the validation, that they can do justice to their stats. Babar has already played beautifully in the tournament and was unlucky yesterday. Also, we need Haris back at 4. The guy is quality and is exactly what we need to support Babar and Malik.

Also, let's stop being sentimental and overly emotional in our assessments. Destiny was just not on our side yesterday. In Sha Allah, it will be in the final.
 
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