Measuring the bowling speed of Pacers from 70s and 80s

[Ahmad Shah]

There are a lot of myths regarding the pace of fast bowlers of 70s ,80s and even mid 90s
Since speed guns were not available during that era ,i have seen lot of the exaggeration about the pace of different fast bowlers
For example people claim that Thomson and holding use to bowl high 150s kph
or in early 160s kph on consistent basis
Even Indians exaggerates srinath was quicker than waqar
Pakistanis claims that zahid in 90s was consistently 155 +

Same is the case with bowling speed of Patrick Peterson , sylvester clarke, nantie hayward ,bret shultz etc

To solve this issue
There is a simple technique

Measuring speed is no rocket science
Formula of measuring speed is simple
Speed =distance traveled ÷time elapsed

Footages of bowling of all these pacers are still available on YouTube
There are so many apps available where you just need to upload the bowling footage and get exact bowling speed
some of these apps are bowlometer, bowling speed test, bowlfit, smart speed etc

I wonder why no one has done any effort in this regard , iam sure if some volunteer does it many of the myths will busted about the lightening pace of these fast bowlers

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Srinath was quicker than Waqar? Seriously?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

There was a very old thread on PP where a poster did a frame by frame analysis and calculated some speeds.

 

[JaDed]

There was a very old thread on PP where a poster did a frame by frame analysis and calculated some speeds.

That was a top thread but went into same issues of confirmation bias.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Someone on Twitter calculated the speeds of fast-bowlers from previous eras a few years ago. I don't remember exactly what he did, but I remember thinking it was a really great and fairly accurate way to calculate speeds. I can't find that thread though. It might have been deleted because of a copyright claim but I will try to find it.

 

[Shaheenthefalcon]

If this is a feel good thread i give you that man…i know we are hurting from wc knock out punch…going back 40 years to check if we had the “fastest attack” … then your great grand kids in 2124 will refer to 1970-1980’s too.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Srinath was quicker than Waqar? Seriously?

Not faster but he was clocked at close to 150kph. Even I was surprised when I learned this.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Not faster but he was clocked at close to 150kph. Even I was surprised when I learned this.

I find that very hard to believe

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I find that very hard to believe

You can see it registered here

International Bowling Speeds

 

[JaDed]

I find that very hard to believe

You kidding? He was our fastest bowler for long, I saw the game live when he clocked that.

Are you confusing Venkatesh Prassad with Srinath?

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

There are a lot of myths regarding the pace of fast bowlers of 70s ,80s and even mid 90s
Since speed guns were not available during that era ,i have seen lot of the exaggeration about the pace of different fast bowlers
For example people claim that Thomson and holding use to bowl high 150s kph
or in early 160s kph on consistent basis
Even Indians exaggerates srinath was quicker than waqar
Pakistanis claims that zahid in 90s was consistently 155 +

Same is the case with bowling speed of Patrick Peterson , sylvester clarke, nantie hayward ,bret shultz etc

To solve this issue
There is a simple technique

Measuring speed is no rocket science
Formula of measuring speed is simple
Speed =distance traveled ÷time elapsed

Footages of bowling of all these pacers are still available on YouTube
There are so many apps available where you just need to upload the bowling footage and get exact bowling speed
some of these apps are bowlometer, bowling speed test, bowlfit, smart speed etc

I wonder why no one has done any effort in this regard , iam sure if some volunteer does it many of the myths will busted about the lightening pace of these fast bowlers

Bowling Speeds measured are done for "INSTANTANEOUS SPEED AT THE POINT OF RELEASE" which is very different from what you can do by measuring from old videos which will just give "AVERAGE SPEED".

Even if you try to put every bowling on video analysis, it will not be a like for like analysis. As average speed will be affected by great many factors like :

1. Wind speed and direction
2. Where the ball is patched
3. type of pitch
4. type of ball
5. Atmospheric condition (rain, humidity etc)
6. Condition of the ball
Assuming point of release and point of bat contact can be accurately measured from videos. The above factors will still induce significant noise in measurements.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Bowling Speeds measured are done for "INSTANTANEOUS SPEED AT THE POINT OF RELEASE" which is very different from what you can do by measuring from old videos which will just give "AVERAGE SPEED".

Even if you try to put every bowling on video analysis, it will not be a like for like analysis. As average speed will be affected by great many factors like :

1. Wind speed and direction
2. Where the ball is patched
3. type of pitch
4. type of ball
5. Atmospheric condition (rain, humidity etc)
6. Condition of the ball
Assuming point of release and point of bat contact can be accurately measured from videos. The above factors will still induce significant noise in measurements.

Also, all grounds do not have the same angle and distance from the pitch. Measuring this will also be very difficult

 

[Ahmad Shah]

I at times wonder if speed gun really accurate
For example dale steyn 140 kph delivery looks more quicker than bret Lee 150kph delivery

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Bowling Speeds measured are done for "INSTANTANEOUS SPEED AT THE POINT OF RELEASE" which is very different from what you can do by measuring from old videos which will just give "AVERAGE SPEED".

Even if you try to put every bowling on video analysis, it will not be a like for like analysis. As average speed will be affected by great many factors like :

1. Wind speed and direction
2. Where the ball is patched
3. type of pitch
4. type of ball
5. Atmospheric condition (rain, humidity etc)
6. Condition of the ball
Assuming point of release and point of bat contact can be accurately measured from videos. The above factors will still induce significant noise in measurements.

Could you theoretically calculate the average speed of certain current players and compare it to average speeds of 70s 80s bowlers? Might give you a good reference point?

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

I at times wonder if speed gun really accurate
For example dale steyn 140 kph delivery looks more quicker than bret Lee 150kph delivery

Might have to do with how they release the ball and other aerodynamic factors. Steyn was someone with an incredible wrist action as seen by his ability to swing both the new and old ball both ways. Therefore, he likely put a lot of reverse revolutions on the ball which would make it travel through the air slightly faster and maintain a higher speed until it pitched.

Lee had a good wrist action too, esp. when he bowled his stock outswinger, but not as good as Steyn so maybe while his initial release was faster, the pace of the ball in flight (until it pitched) would have decelerated faster than Steyn's, hence the phenomenon you mentioned? Just a theory...

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Could you theoretically calculate the average speed of certain current players and compare it to average speeds of 70s 80s bowlers? Might give you a good reference point?

look at the tons of factors i have quoted the error will be too high man. Someone can spend time over it, but it wont have much utility. Maybe by the end of the year, I will try to run some simulations on it, if I get the time.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Might have to do with how they release the ball and other aerodynamic factors. Steyn was someone with an incredible wrist action as seen by his ability to swing both the new and old ball both ways. Therefore, he likely put a lot of reverse revolutions on the ball which would make it travel through the air slightly faster and maintain a higher speed until it pitched.

Lee had a good wrist action too, esp. when he bowled his stock outswinger, but not as good as Steyn so maybe while his initial release was faster, the pace of the ball in flight (until it pitched) would have decelerated faster than Steyn's, hence the phenomenon you mentioned? Just a theory...

Considering this , Do they calculate the speed of ball or the moving hand at the point of release??
If its the moving hand, then that can be the reason for this perceived discrepancy and Steyn is actually faster than Brett Lee.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Considering this , Do they calculate the speed of ball or the moving hand at the point of release??
If its the moving hand, then that can be the reason for this perceived discrepancy and Steyn is actually faster than Brett Lee.

My understanding is that it is the speed of the ball itself (not the hand) during its first meter or two of flight.

Having said that I have heard various commentators over the years talk about how certain bowlers' actions interfere with the speed. This could be interpreted as:

a. Their hand messing with the line of sight of the speed gun affecting its reading (due to an unorthodox action).
b. The batsman perceiving the ball as faster than it is due to an unconventional action.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I find that very hard to believe

1999 World Cup . Srinath clocked 149.6 kph and was the 2nd fastest bowler in the World Cup after Akhtar.

This was Sri at 30 years of age and after shoulder surgeries

He was at his quickest in the 96/97 season.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

1999 World Cup . Srinath clocked 149.6 kph and was the 2nd fastest bowler in the World Cup after Akhtar.

This was Sri at 30 years of age and after shoulder surgeries

He was at his quickest in the 96/97 season.

You kidding? He was our fastest bowler for long, I saw the game live when he clocked that.

Are you confusing Venkatesh Prassad with Srinath?

Well tbh I didn't see him play during his heyday so I can accept being 100% wrong on this. But still I never got that feeling looking at his action and follow through. I guess some bowlers are just deceptively quick.