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Michael Jackson V Anyone - GOAT Musician?

KingKhanWC

KingKhanWC

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We have had a good debate Messi v Maradona.

Not all love or watch football but most listen to some sort of music.

In Pakistan we have Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

In India we have Mangeshkar & Rafi.

In UK we have The Beatles.

Others who are seen as GOATs by some..

Elvis
Bob Marley
Prince
Tupac

Etc

In this field, there is NO contest, nobody even comes close to MJ.

Anyone willing to debate otherwise? :)

@mods can we have a poll please?
 
Jacko easily for me takes the crown. His songs were the best even so popular today then he also killed the dance floor like no one else can. The rest can't hold a candle compared to the great MJ! Elvis was overrated who couldn't' dance for his life. The new generation can't relate to his songs today neither do they care. Can't think of one song Elvis song that is popular....the reason for his popularity was he shook his hips a bit in conservative America back in the 1950's. Bob Marley did nothing for me where as Prince had only a few decent years with his "Pruple Rain" before he became all weird.

The rest are only popular in the subcontinent.
 
I remember reading an article on linguistics, and in it, 4 phrases were mentioned as the most recognisable in every corner of the world, despite language barriers.

1. Hello
2. Mum/Maa
3. Coca Cola
4. Micheal Jackson

His songs were something else, but his dance moves were interstellar. When he first performed the moonwalk, he went from PoP star, to God status. Even today, kids and adults mimic his dance moves.

His performances were also next gen, every show, gig, tour, set the bar higher and higher. His music, influencial across and recognised across the globe.

The only negative I would say is that his music didn't really evolve with the times, Invincible is proof of this. Same beats, same percussion set.

Though his collaboration with Quincy Jones, on Thriller, will never be matched. I have been to many music events in my life, and if there is one guaranteed floor filler, it is Thriller - original or remix!

There will never be anyone like Michael Jackson.

MJ - daylight - lightyear - the rest.
 
KingKhanWC said:
We have had a good debate Messi v Maradona.

Not all love or watch football but most listen to some sort of music.

In Pakistan we have Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

In India we have Mangeshkar & Rafi.

In UK we have The Beatles.

Others who are seen as GOATs by some..

Elvis
Bob Marley
Prince
Tupac

Etc

In this field, there is NO contest, nobody even comes close to MJ.

Anyone willing to debate otherwise? :)

@mods can we have a poll please?
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Michael Jackson is my all time favourite music artist. The greatest artist of all time. At his best, he was a great singer, great performer, great songwriter, great producer. Just the complete package.

Thriller is no doubt a fantastic album, as are Bad and Off The Wall. But some love also need to be shown to his 90s albums. Dangerous and History are fantastic albums too.

Michael Jackson was and is a controversial figure, in the eyes of many. I don't believe in the allegations against him. I just think he was an extremely naive person to get caught up in that mess.

But his music is still extremely popular, thirteen years after his death and all the controversies surrounding him. That tells me that the guy was something special. He is like Mozart or Beethovan. People will still listen to Michael Jackson in 500 years time.

As for others artists, that might be on his level. Elvis was a great singer but that is all he was. He never wrote a single song himself.

Prince was a better musician than Michael, but Michael was a better singer and dancer. Prince also released too many albums compared to Michael, and that meant that he released too many dud albums in his later life. I love Prince too but he wasn't on Michael's level.
 
MJ was more of a performer than musician. His songs were mostly about the arrangement and production quality for which guys like Quincy Jones need to be credited for.

People like Lata and Rafi are singers not musicians.
 
WengerOut said:
MJ was more of a performer than musician. His songs were mostly about the arrangement and production quality for which guys like Quincy Jones need to be credited for.

People like Lata and Rafi are singers not musicians.
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MJ created a lot of his songs in his head. He was heavily involved in production and arrangement of the songs. Quincy gets way more credit than he deserves.
 
The_KING said:
MJ created a lot of his songs in his head. He was heavily involved in production and arrangement of the songs. Quincy gets way more credit than he deserves.
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Infact it is the other way round. Quincy never got the credit he deserves because for common music listeners it was an MJ song.
 
WengerOut said:
Infact it is the other way round. Quincy never got the credit he deserves because for common music listeners it was an MJ song.
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Quincy gets more credit than he deserves because people want to discredit MJ’s involvement and make it seem like Quincy did it all, when he didn’t.
 
The_KING said:
Quincy gets more credit than he deserves because people want to discredit MJ’s involvement and make it seem like Quincy did it all, when he didn’t.
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His point is that the average person who is not deeply involved in music doesn’t even know who Quincy is & the role he played in MJ’s success.

For example, I am not much into music & I had no idea who Quincy was before I saw this thread & read a bit about him. However, I have known MJ & his songs since my childhood just like billions of people around the world.

So while what you are saying might be true among the music buffs etc., the general public would only underrate Quincy’s contribution because they are not even aware of his existence.
 
Mamoon said:
His point is that the average person who is not deeply involved in music doesn’t even know who Quincy is & the role he played in MJ’s success.

For example, I am not much into music & I had no idea who Quincy was before I saw this thread & read a bit about him. However, I have known MJ & his songs since my childhood just like billions of people around the world.

So while what you are saying might be true among the music buffs etc., the general public would only underrate Quincy’s contribution because they are not even aware of his existence.
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Mostly this. MJ did give inputs about beats, bass etc by beatboxing. But musical arrangement of a song ( let alone an album ) was more layered which required someone with more proficiency musically. Music Buffs know about this and hence Quincy gets credit. But that does not mean MJ is discredited for his involvement.
 
It is the job of a producer to get the most out of an artist - from sequencing to voice direction to mixing. QJ produced 3 albums with MJ, and all three set records, and Thriller is credited for the success of MTV channel too. QJ is easily Producer of the 20th Century.

In the 21st Century, Dr. Dre is the best and most sought after producer. Eminem, Snoop, and 50 Cent, owe their careers to Dr. Dre, in the same way MJ owed his success to QJ.
 
WengerOut said:
MJ was more of a performer than musician. His songs were mostly about the arrangement and production quality for which guys like Quincy Jones need to be credited for.

People like Lata and Rafi are singers not musicians.
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Totally agree.

MJ without visuals of his performances would be not as great.
 
Quincy was a legendary producer but Quincy with another artist couldn’t have created the magic that he was able to create with MJ. Both MJ and Quincy complemented each other.

People make it seem like Michael didn’t have a successful career before and after Quincy. It wasn’t a case of Quincy Jones or bust for Michael Jackson.
 
The_KING said:
Quincy was a legendary producer but Quincy with another artist couldn’t have created the magic that he was able to create with MJ. Both MJ and Quincy complemented each other.

People make it seem like Michael didn’t have a successful career before and after Quincy. It wasn’t a case of Quincy Jones or bust for Michael Jackson.
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Quincy as an arranger was genre agnostic. Before his foray into pop, he did some fantastic works in Jazz and blues. Those are niche genres and may not have got the popularity of MJ songs. But that does not mean they did not have 'magic'. Mainstream popularity and success may vary with performer, but the song quality still depends on the production.
 
The Beatles, Bob Dylan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Jackson. I'll give it to MJ, he's the greatest live performer ever alongside the great Freddie Mercury. Performing is different from quality of music.
 
There's no use trying to compare Indian music with Western music, for me Pt Bhimsen Joshi or Ustad Bade Gulam Ali 's music can't be compared to the likes of MJ. But even if we just concentrate on Western music, how does MJ rank ahead of Bach, Beethoven or Mozart? Their creation have withstand the test of time.
 
I think MJ in his time was the most known personality in the world

No other Musician since or before has achieved this. Not everyone in the world knows Justin Bieber, Robbie Williams, Beyoncé or anyone of that caliber

MJ is indeed the GOAT
 
WengerOut said:
MJ was more of a performer than musician. His songs were mostly about the arrangement and production quality for which guys like Quincy Jones need to be credited for.

People like Lata and Rafi are singers not musicians.
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Not true.

The definition of a musician is a composer, conductor, or performer of music. Quincy Jones was a CO-producer on 3 albums but much of the thoughts, direction was MJ's idea.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Not true.

The definition of a musician is a composer, conductor, or performer of music. Quincy Jones was a CO-producer on 3 albums but much of the thoughts, direction was MJ's idea.
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Producer is an umbrella term. MJ did the song writing and had some inputs about beats n stuffs. Layered structure and arrangement are not his forte, come on.
 
WengerOut said:
Producer is an umbrella term. MJ did the song writing and had some inputs about beats n stuffs. Layered structure and arrangement are not his forte, come on.
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Listen to demos of the MJ written songs that Quincy produced. They don't sound a whole lot different from the versions that MJ produced and presented to Quincy.
 
Hitman said:
The Beatles, Bob Dylan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Jackson. I'll give it to MJ, he's the greatest live performer ever alongside the great Freddie Mercury. Performing is different from quality of music.
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Beatles and Bob Dylan are boring.
MJ and Freddie Mercury >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Beatles & Bob Dylan.
 
im not a crazy MJ fan but find young MJ was absolutely astounding, the vocal control for a kid is crazy, he was something special


playing devils advocate, he was also lucky that his fame peaked at the zenith of broadcast media, culture was being beamed far and wide, unlike ever before, and without the consumer choice that local satellite, cable and the internet age brought on subsequently.

if i was choosing my top 3 vocalists id have freddie mercury, luther vandross and MJ.
 
Ask yourself this, how successful were MJ albums post QJ collaborations, compared to Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad? The answer will tell you how influencial QJ was.

MJ would beat box at traffic lights (read about the famous Billie Jean bassline), QJ turned it into reality.

Though QJ was influencial in MJ music, when it came to performances, entertainment, videos, concerts - it was all MJ, and only MJ.

Also, Beatles, Prince, Dylan et al are GOTTs, though if you go to a Beatles event now, look at the demographic that buy said music, you will find the majority are from the baby boomer generation, where as MJ concerts attracted all generations. Saying this some classic tracks cross generations like 'Imagine', and 'Hey Jude'.
 
Im a big MJ fan. For me its between him and the beatles for the greatest of all times.

Michael is far ahead of them on the performance and entertainment front while some of the lennon/Mccartney arrangements and song writing wont ever be matched again.

Both have had a tremendous musical legacy and you can still hear the influences in many modern artists.

For me Michael edges it and is the GOAT.

Thriller, Bad and Dangerous are timeless albums and the other albums are solid.

Invincible was probably his worst album in the eyes of the critics but you rock my world is a classic single and the ballads just as break of dawn are perhaps some of his best slow songs.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Ask yourself this, how successful were MJ albums post QJ collaborations, compared to Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad? The answer will tell you how influencial QJ was.

MJ would beat box at traffic lights (read about the famous Billie Jean bassline), QJ turned it into reality.

Though QJ was influencial in MJ music, when it came to performances, entertainment, videos, concerts - it was all MJ, and only MJ.

Also, Beatles, Prince, Dylan et al are GOTTs, though if you go to a Beatles event now, look at the demographic that buy said music, you will find the majority are from the baby boomer generation, where as MJ concerts attracted all generations. Saying this some classic tracks cross generations like 'Imagine', and 'Hey Jude'.
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What is GOTT? :)))

As for MJ's post QJ albums, Dangerous sold over 30 million copies. History sold 20 million copies after the child sex scandal. And it was also a double album, so more expensive than a standard album, which no doubt had an impact on the sales. Invincible sold close to 10 million, which is still great, considering MJ was in his 40s by that point.
 
WengerOut said:
Producer is an umbrella term. MJ did the song writing and had some inputs about beats n stuffs. Layered structure and arrangement are not his forte, come on.
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You're giving too much importance to this role. Remember MJ was a genius vocalist and entertainer as a child. See the video posted by ElRaja. If it wasnt QJ it would have been another producer who helped him. But the Legend is all Michael Jackson.

The Jackson 5 were huge, their producer was the dad Joe. Gordon Keith later took over their production and arguably had more impact than QJ on MJ's evolution.
 
KingKhanWC said:
You're giving too much importance to this role. Remember MJ was a genius vocalist and entertainer as a child. See the video posted by ElRaja. If it wasnt QJ it would have been another producer who helped him. But the Legend is all Michael Jackson.

The Jackson 5 were huge, their producer was the dad Joe. Gordon Keith later took over their production and arguably had more impact than QJ on MJ's evolution.
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Quincy was an example. I was talking about producers generally.
 
The_KING said:
I have never heard Vandross, but Mercury and MJ are definitely my top 2 vocalists of all time.
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LVD had pbly one of the clearest, most silky male rnb voice, pre autotune era amazing technical control. his live duet with mariah carey on endless love shows his skill well, esp when compared to someone with a range as wide as mariahs.
 
The_KING said:
What is GOTT? :)))

As for MJ's post QJ albums, Dangerous sold over 30 million copies. History sold 20 million copies after the child sex scandal. And it was also a double album, so more expensive than a standard album, which no doubt had an impact on the sales. Invincible sold close to 10 million, which is still great, considering MJ was in his 40s by that point.
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None of those albums hold a candle to Thriller which sold over 70M. Combine History and Invincible, and you still have less than half 9f what Thriller sold. And we're talking mostly Vinyl and later on CDs for Thriller.

Thriller remains the best selling album of all time.
 
Technics 1210 said:
None of those albums hold a candle to Thriller which sold over 70M. Combine History and Invincible, and you still have less than half 9f what Thriller sold. And we're talking mostly Vinyl and later on CDs for Thriller.

Thriller remains the best selling album of all time.
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Thriller sold as much because of the first moonwalk and the legendary music videos of Billie Jean, Beat It and Thriller. That was all MJ, not Quincy.

Besides, sales don't always determine quality. Most of MJ's most personal and best written songs were released in the 90s.
 
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ElRaja said:
LVD had pbly one of the clearest, most silky male rnb voice, pre autotune era amazing technical control. his live duet with mariah carey on endless love shows his skill well, esp when compared to someone with a range as wide as mariahs.
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Thanks. I will check him out.
 
The_KING said:
Thriller sold as much because of the first moonwalk and the legendary music videos of Billie Jean, Beat It and Thriller. That was all MJ, not Quincy.

Besides, sales don't always determine quality. Most of MJ's most personal and best written songs were released in the 90s.
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MJ performed the first ever Moonwalk in 1983, Thriller was released in 1982.
 
Besides his music, the man was a phenomenal performer.

I believe he was challenged by Prabhu Dev on his India tour to a dance off. Prabhu who was fully inspired by MJ was himself an electric performer himself with his dance moves/choreography

Would have been a great spectacle if it ever transpired
 
Technics 1210 said:
MJ performed the first ever Moonwalk in 1983, Thriller was released in 1982.
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Thriller was released in November 1982. MJ performed the moonwalk for the first time in March 1983, which took the sales of Thriller to another level, along with the music video for Billie Jean that was released in January 1983. Initially, Thriller didn't even sell that well.
 
Rana said:
I think there are videos on YouTube that debunk this. There is a video of someone doing the moonwalk casually in the 60s
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Oh yeah, MJ did not invent the Moonwalk, but in terms of QJ and MJ collaboration, Thriller was released first before MJ performed the Moonwalk in 1983.

When he did, he went from Pop star to stratosphere.
 
WengerOut said:
MJ was more of a performer than musician. His songs were mostly about the arrangement and production quality for which guys like Quincy Jones need to be credited for.

People like Lata and Rafi are singers not musicians.
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This is what I thought, "musician" is quite a broad term and encompasses a whole host of greats not readily seen on screen. As an entertainer and musical artist, yes there is no doubt MJ is one of the most popular of all time. Even despite all those horrific allegations...
 
Michael Jackson is a great dancer and decent singer. I do not find his songs great. None of his songs made me go out of my way to search for them and listen to them.

I find Indian Bollywood singers more talented in terms of singing than any of these Michael Jacksons of the West. They were just marketed way better than any of the Indian singers and musicians.

Jackson could not tie the shoe laces of singers like SP Balasubramaniam or Yesudas or Udit Narayan or Kishore Kumar. The only thing Jackson got over the singers I mentioned is that Jackson is the best dancer ever. But it has nothing to do with singing.
 
The_KING said:
Thriller was released in November 1982. MJ performed the moonwalk for the first time in March 1983, which took the sales of Thriller to another level, along with the music video for Billie Jean that was released in January 1983. Initially, Thriller didn't even sell that well.
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While you are correct in saying that Thriller sales did not take off at point of release, you are woefully incorrect in suggesting the MJ's Moonwalk had anything to do with the increased sales of Thriller.

The video of Thriller was ground breaking at the time, nothing like that had been seen before in terms of Music, Production, Technicals, and Direction. However, it was the near 15 minute run time of the video that was the problem.

In the early 80s, music videos needed to be at a run time of about 4 min or so, so that they could be aired both on TV and Radio. With Thriller coming in at almost 15 min, no channel would air the video except for one - you guessed it - MTV. MTV was the only channel to air the Thriller video in its entirety which is why MJ is accredited for the success of MTV.

Thriller had to be shortened, both in terms of the track and the video, so that it could be broadcasted on other channels, including, Radio!, at that point, Thriller sales took off. The shortening of Thriller emphasised the term 'Radio Edit'.

Yes, MJ's moonwalk in 1983 added the wow factor to just one track and propelled MJ to the stratosphere, no denying, but Billie Jean itself did not sell Thriller, yes MJ as a performer was God level, but even today, when Billie Jean, is dropped - no one, and I mean no one, starts doing the Moonwalk, but the listeners dance to a QJ production.

QJ was ahead of his time when it came to music production, and his collaboration with MJ is the most successful in terms of sales, influence, and ground breaking - of all time.
 
I dropped this remix in my techno set about a year ago, I promising you, the crowd went wild, no actually, went bonkers.

[utube]T-xTpBX2IkA&ab[/utube]
 
Technics 1210 said:
While you are correct in saying that Thriller sales did not take off at point of release, you are woefully incorrect in suggesting the MJ's Moonwalk had anything to do with the increased sales of Thriller.

The video of Thriller was ground breaking at the time, nothing like that had been seen before in terms of Music, Production, Technicals, and Direction. However, it was the near 15 minute run time of the video that was the problem.

In the early 80s, music videos needed to be at a run time of about 4 min or so, so that they could be aired both on TV and Radio. With Thriller coming in at almost 15 min, no channel would air the video except for one - you guessed it - MTV. MTV was the only channel to air the Thriller video in its entirety which is why MJ is accredited for the success of MTV.

Thriller had to be shortened, both in terms of the track and the video, so that it could be broadcasted on other channels, including, Radio!, at that point, Thriller sales took off. The shortening of Thriller emphasised the term 'Radio Edit'.

Yes, MJ's moonwalk in 1983 added the wow factor to just one track and propelled MJ to the stratosphere, no denying, but Billie Jean itself did not sell Thriller, yes MJ as a performer was God level, but even today, when Billie Jean, is dropped - no one, and I mean no one, starts doing the Moonwalk, but the listeners dance to a QJ production.

QJ was ahead of his time when it came to music production, and his collaboration with MJ is the most successful in terms of sales, influence, and ground breaking - of all time.
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Thriller video came out a year after the release of the album. Thriller was already on its way to becoming the best selling album of all time by the time Thriller MV dropped. No doubt that Thriller MV has played a big part in the continuous success of Thriller.

Mate, I am a big MJ fan so you don't need to give me a history lesson about MTV being the first one to air Thriller. I already know that.
 
The_KING said:
Thriller video came out a year after the release of the album. Thriller was already on its way to becoming the best selling album of all time by the time Thriller MV dropped. No doubt that Thriller MV has played a big part in the continuous success of Thriller.

Mate, I am a big MJ fan so you don't need to give me a history lesson about MTV being the first one to air Thriller. I already know that.
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Since you now state Thriller was already on its way to becoming the best selling album, we can rule out the success of Thriller down to the Moonwalk.

And no, Thriller was released on MTV, in 1983, this is not the same as when the Thriller Video was complete. We know the date, as the track was released in 1982. Videos are NEVER made a year after the release of the track, ever.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Since you now state Thriller was already on its way to becoming the best selling album, we can rule out the success of Thriller down to the Moonwalk.

And no, Thriller was released on MTV, in 1983, this is not the same as when the Thriller Video was complete. We know the date, as the track was released in 1982. Videos are NEVER made a year after the release of the track, ever.
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The moonwalk played a part, as did the music videos for Thriller, Billie Jean and Beat It, and as well as the quality of Thriller album.

Thriller album came out in November 1982. Thriller music video dropped in December 1983, which gave a new lease of life to the Thriller album.
 
The_KING said:
The moonwalk played a part, as did the music videos for Thriller, Billie Jean and Beat It, and as well as the quality of Thriller album.

Thriller album came out in November 1982. Thriller music video dropped in December 1983, which gave a new lease of life to the Thriller album.
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The Moonwalk played a part in propelling MJ as the ultimate performer, no doubt about it.

But to suggest the Moonwalk was the reason Thriller sold millions is a myth (as per you claim : MJ performed the moonwalk for the first time in March 1983, which took the sales of Thriller to another level)

Even in your statement above, you credit the Thriller video for a new lease of life, if this is the case, where does the 1983 Moonwalk stand in terms of influencing Thriller sales?
 
Technics 1210 said:
The Moonwalk played a part in propelling MJ as the ultimate performer, no doubt about it.

But to suggest the Moonwalk was the reason Thriller sold millions is a myth (as per you claim : MJ performed the moonwalk for the first time in March 1983, which took the sales of Thriller to another level)

Even in your statement above, you credit the Thriller video for a new lease of life, if this is the case, where does the 1983 Moonwalk stand in terms of influencing Thriller sales?
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Thriller album first went to number 1 on US charts in late February 83 and stayed there for 17 non-consecutive weeks until September 83.

Following the release of Thriller MV, Thriller album went back to number 1 in December 1983 and stayed there for 17 consecutive weeks until April 1984.

The moonwalk was the reasons why Thriller sold millions, but not the only reason.
 
The_KING said:
Thriller album first went to number 1 on US charts in late February 83 and stayed there for 17 non-consecutive weeks until September 83.

Following the release of Thriller MV, Thriller album went back to number 1 in December 1983 and stayed there for 17 consecutive weeks until April 1984.

The moonwalk was the reasons why Thriller sold millions, but not the only reason.
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*one of
 
Technics 1210 said:
I dropped this remix in my techno set about a year ago, I promising you, the crowd went wild, no actually, went bonkers.

[utube]T-xTpBX2IkA&ab[/utube]
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Decent.

With MJ you have so much choice to mix with many genres of music. His voice is iconic.
 
KingKhanWC said:
We have had a good debate Messi v Maradona.

Not all love or watch football but most listen to some sort of music.

In Pakistan we have Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

In India we have Mangeshkar & Rafi.

In UK we have The Beatles.

Others who are seen as GOATs by some..

Elvis
Bob Marley
Prince
Tupac

Etc

In this field, there is NO contest, nobody even comes close to MJ.

Anyone willing to debate otherwise? :)

@mods can we have a poll please?
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is it even a debate!! the post itself tells us the answer
 
Here is a bootleg remix of Billie Jean with some of the most famous Rap/Hip Hop artists in history.

Proving Billie Jean transcends all genres!

If you like Rap/HH and MJ, this is a must!

[Utube]nMX39REWwEM[/utube]
 
No Michael Jackson was not one dimensional. "Heal the world" and "Man in the mirror" are songs with great reason behind them applicable to every person on earth. He could perform all sorts of dances as well from classical Indian as seen in the "Black and white" video to modern American the man was a genius.
 
Too many genres of music to even compare.

There are legends in classical, folk, jazz etc. that most folks have never even heard of.

Even if we stick to Soul, R&B, Motown - typically black American music , there are atleast 3 others who can claim to be the greatest - James Brown, Stevie Wonder and the impossible Prince.

MJ was great but this is so subjective.
 
Music is a subjective thing.

Objectively, one criterion to judge a musician is sales. Beatles and Elvis are higher than MJ on that list.

He was an icon and does have a legacy but alongside music, there was his performances, his off screen life etc as well that are also factors in him being such a worldwide phenomena.

When it comes to solo artists, I would say Bob Dylan is the GOAT. Wasn't the best singer in the world, but his music is a stuff of genius. Probably the best lyricist as well.

I would put Jimi Hendrix ahead of him as well just because I love that genre more.

If we are talking about bands, I would put 30 ahead of MJ just because I am not a big Pop/dance fan but I won't deny his genius or legacy.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Too many genres of music to even compare.

There are legends in classical, folk, jazz etc. that most folks have never even heard of.

Even if we stick to Soul, R&B, Motown - typically black American music , there are atleast 3 others who can claim to be the greatest - James Brown, Stevie Wonder and the impossible Prince.

MJ was great but this is so subjective.
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Prince is so underrated. It's said that he has 15 fully recorded unreleased albums in his studio. He could sing, played all the instruments in his songs, produced them himself too and had a captivating hold over the audience. Plus extremely underrated as a guitarist.
 
Greatest musician.

Hmmmm.

He wasn’t proficient on every instrument like Stevie Wonder, Paul McCartney and Prince.

He didn’t write in musical notation like trained musicians do.

Instead he would hear the entire arrangement of a song in his head, then go to the studio and sing the arpeggios of the chords to the guitarist, pianist and bassist who would lay the track down for him, then he would sing the vocal line over the top.

That I find remarkable. Almost Mozart-like, who is supposed to have been able to visualise music in 3D around him, though the Austrian would write the notes down and play them on his harpsichord.

Of course other people wrote for MJ too - about a third of Off the Wall and Thriller were written by an Englishman named Rod Templeton, who died a very rich man recently. Man in the Mirror was written by Siedah Garrett and Glen Ballard. That half-credit netted Garrett more money than the whole of the rest of her career.

He could get a bit samey, and I think after Bad he was starting to gas out creatively. As happens to most artists. Their canvas eventually fills up. So he was one of the greatest of the soul / r’n’b / pop era, though I’d go for Stevie Wonder whose canon is more varied.

Of course the dancing adds another dimension - in addition to his skill as a writer and vocalist you had a dancer as good as Fred Astaire, the Nicholas Brothers and Gene Kelly.

If you go back a bit then arguably the greatest jazz players were Louis Armstrong, Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker who could enter that 3D musical headspace and instantly play it with complete fluency.

On occasion on the jazz bandstand I have felt as though I am a conduit for music - it plays me rather than me playing it - which makes me wonder if there is a God after all which I briefly tapped into. But this happened for scant seconds of my life. The above guys could access that for many years of theirs.

If I was to opine on the greatest musician ever I’d say Beethoven, due to the high number of pieces in his canon considered to be masterworks 200 years after he died. Though my understanding is limited to Western music.
 
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