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Mitchell Starc vs Mohammad Amir - Who rules the roost?

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MenInG

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Amir

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Starc

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Starc is the better bowler by far at the moment
 
It's not even a topic for discussion
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It's like watching Wasim Akram - reverse-swing at over 140kph by the excellent Mitchell Starc <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SAvAUS?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SAvAUS</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/hLu62PIHCC">pic.twitter.com/hLu62PIHCC</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/969603713773002752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Starc wipes the floor against aamir

Better start a thread for starc vs rabada.That will be more close but at the moment starc aheads here too
 
Starc is leagues ahead in Test cricket.

Starc is ahead by a margin in ODI cricket.

Pretty much equal in T20 cricket.
 
Lol. Even without the average column Starc has almost twice the number of wickets having played just 10 more matches than Amir. I know Amir after his comeback missed out on plenty of wickets due to some slippery fielding but even then the difference is too big. Starc is one of the best in the world whereas Amir isn't even the best in Asia. Shami and Bhuvneshwar are both comfortably better.

In ODIs the comparison is so one sided I am thinking this is an early April fools joke.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Starc is leagues ahead in Test cricket.

Starc is ahead by a margin in ODI cricket.

Pretty much equal in T20 cricket.
Click to expand...
Amir is much better in T20. Starc either bowls too short or too full. Doesn’t have the same variations (slower ball, cross seam, cutters) that Amir does.

Starc in ODI: 9/10
Starc in Test: 8/10

Amir in ODI: 6.5/10
Amir in Test: 5/10
 
ManFan said:
Amir is much better in T20. Starc either bowls too short or too full. Doesn’t have the same variations (slower ball, cross seam, cutters) that Amir does.

Starc in ODI: 9/10
Starc in Test: 8/10

Amir in ODI: 6.5/10
Amir in Test: 5/10
Click to expand...
Wouldn't argue with that assessment. Starc is rested for a lot of T20s though. But yes Amir is a better defensive bowler compared to Starc.
 
Starc is the best bowler in the world, but I think Amir can get to his level in a few years.
 
Rayyman said:
Starc is the best bowler in the world, but I think Amir can get to his level in a few years.
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The only person stopping Amir is Amir. Too many faults with his run-up, length, mindset, fitness and swing. Won’t be surprised if he ends his career with a 30 average in ODI’s and 35+ in Tests.
 
To be fair, Amir hasn’t played Test cricket on the regular since his comeback. He has played 5 Test series and he has no luck whatsoever.
In England, he had 10 catches dropped.
In UAE against the WI, the pitches have been slow and dry. This was his poorest series in my opinion, so that can’t fault his performance.
In NZ, under helpful conditions, he had numerous catches dropped.
In WI, he had 1 five-wicket-haul and than vanished. Another poor performance.
In SL, he played when he shouldn’t have as he was unfit.
Starc on the other hand, gets bouncier, quicker wickets, with reverse swing coming into play, very safe fielding hands, and great support bowlers.
That being said, Starc is still miles ahead of Amir.
 
Amir is not in the same league as Starc.

Comparison should be between Hasan Ali and Starc.
 
if you compare thier stand out performances..

Starc
Tests - 4/5 wicket hauls 17 out f 76 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 4.5 innings
Odis - 4/5 wicket hauls 14 out of 72 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 5 innings

Amir
Tests - 4/5 wicket hauls 7 out of 56 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 8 innings
Odis - 4/5 wicket hauls 1 out of 57 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 57 innings

Rabada
Tests - 4/5 wicket hauls 11 out of 47 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 4 innings
Odis - 4/5 wicket hauls 5 out of 47 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 9 innings

Forget about Rabadas and Starcs...his stats wont even stand before the likes of shami, bhuvi and ishanth be it ODIs or tests..

Mohammad shami
Tests - 4/5 wicket hauls 9 out of 58 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 4.4 innings
Odis - 4/5 wicket hauls 6 out of 49 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 8 innings

bhuvaneswar
Tests - 4/5 wicket hauls 7 out of 37 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 5 innings
Odis - 4/5 wicket hauls 3 out of 85 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 28 innings

bhuvaneswar
Tests - 4/5 wicket hauls 15 out of 144 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 10 innings
Odis - 4/5 wicket hauls 6 out of 78 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 13 innings

Aamir just lacks the killer instinct of a great bowler...he is too defensive
 
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Amir builds pressure, Starc deletes batting lineups. No comparison I'm afraid as of now.
 
This comparison is only slightly more relevant than Umar vs Kohli.
 
IndianFan2018 said:
Comparison is already looking so one sided towards Starc.. gap will widen with the way Amir is bowling in Tests lately.
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It is a poor comparison right now. But I don't think we have seen the absolute best of either yet.
 
Amir vs Starc is only eligible in the T20I format :D

In ODI cricket, Hasan vs Starc can be acceptable.
 
Are we comparing talent or performance?
 
It has to be Starc, in any format. However, the pre-fixing Amir was something special, probably ahead of Starc today considering how young he was back then.
 
Amir has good success against left handers considering his current release, which is not near the wickets/umpire. Since he can swing both ways when bowling to left hand batsmen without the chance of having it called wide. But when it comes to right handers, he often appears to be leg sidish, or appealing for LBWs which have ball pitched outside leg. This can be solved if he bowl close to the stumps.

Also, he has gone too short. I think he needs a serious shake-up about his targets. He shouldn't care about the economy, and should pitch the ball up & be agressive.

The most lethal delivery in-stock by left arm fast bowlers for right handers is an in-swing, and if you take that out of the equation, you just become a no-body, as anybody can slant across right handers, or bowl with specific line and length.
 
Stark on other hand is lovely to watch. Even if is going to bowl on a flat deck, you would be certain about swing with a new ball. While with Amir, not so much. The problem is Amir has too much angle to compensate for the ball to swing, while he delivers/slants the ball from the wide of crease, instead of near the stumps/umpire. And he doesn't even bowl full at all compared to Stark. No comparison at all. One is a legend in the making, while the other is going to be remember as once in a blue moon speck in our bowling history.
 
No comparison at all.

It's like comparing the current Arsenal team with Manchester City.
 
ManFan said:
Not really. Both have helped their respective nations win an ICC trophy.
Click to expand...

so have ishant sharma, irfan pathan and Joginder sharma. Does that mean they should be compared among the best bowlers?
 
Indiafan said:
so have ishant sharma, irfan pathan and Joginder sharma. Does that mean they should be compared among the best bowlers?
Click to expand...
The skill gap is vast between the names you mentioned and those in this thread. That’s why the comparison is being made between them and not those whom you named.
 
ManFan said:
The skill gap is vast between the names you mentioned and those in this thread. That’s why the comparison is being made between them and not those whom you named.
Click to expand...

what skill gap you are talking about thats not reflecting in the stats even after a decent sample size...

Amir
Tests - 4/5 wicket hauls 7 out of 56 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 8 innings
Odis - 4/5 wicket hauls 1 out of 57 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 57 innings

Ishanth
Tests - 4/5 wicket hauls 15 out of 144 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 10 innings
Odis - 4/5 wicket hauls 6 out of 78 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 13 innings
 
Cric Talk said:
what skill gap you are talking about thats not reflecting in the stats even after a decent sample size...

Amir
Tests - 4/5 wicket hauls 7 out of 56 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 8 innings
Odis - 4/5 wicket hauls 1 out of 57 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 57 innings

Ishanth
Tests - 4/5 wicket hauls 15 out of 144 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 10 innings
Odis - 4/5 wicket hauls 6 out of 78 innings i.e 1 stand out performance out of every 13 innings
Click to expand...
Ishant has a higher average in ODI and Test than Amir. Besides his 7-fer’ against ENG, what has he done of note? And that 7-fer’ was all short stuff. Amir has had numerous notable performances and has done great in every major tournament he has played in. Nobody needs stats to state the difference in skill between Amir and Ishant, Joginder Sharma and Pathan.
 
Wow. Thanks for putting up the averages. How is this even a comparison? In ODI's, look at Starc's 4w hauls and 5w hauls. Amir has just one 4w haul and no 5w haul. I do not even want to venture into tests.

I have asked this question time and again here, but fail to understand the romanticism with Amir. He has been well below par since his return except for a couple of boom boom performances against India (in highly important games and when it mattered), but does that warrant this romance with him and this undying support!

To quote many friends at PP, "Starc is a better bowler at the moment" ;)
 
EliteCynical said:
Wow. Thanks for putting up the averages. How is this even a comparison? In ODI's, look at Starc's 4w hauls and 5w hauls. Amir has just one 4w haul and no 5w haul. I do not even want to venture into tests.

I have asked this question time and again here, but fail to understand the romanticism with Amir. He has been well below par since his return except for a couple of boom boom performances against India (in highly important games and when it mattered), but does that warrant this romance with him and this undying support!

To quote many friends at PP, "Starc is a better bowler at the moment" ;)
Click to expand...

Correct, Starc .... daylight ..... Amir !
 
Starc by a distance at the moment. But I can't wonder how Amir would have been if not for the 5 yr hiatus
 
IS this a joke? Starc has a good chance of going down as ODI GOAT.. Comparing him with Amir?

Like [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] rightly pointed out this thread is like Umar vs Kohli.. Pakistanis themselves start such threads so people can ridicule their players.. Embarrassing stuff..
 
Convict said:
Starc bowled his country to a World Cup.
Click to expand...

Amir's current ranking is 31 and he has never been ranked in the top 20.

Starc didn't have to win his country a WC to be far ahead.
 
Amir only performs against india which comes only once in year or two other than that amir is pretty avg bowler. Starc can be compared only with his teammates i.e Hazlewood & Cummins.
 
No comparison, starc wins by a country mile.
Even shami is better atm. Real comparison is amir vs bhuvi, one is better in tests other in odi both equally good in t20
 
Starc and Amir are two players who are performing two different roles for their teams now. This is the reality and it needs to be appreciated.

Michell Starc is a strike bowler. An out and out aggressive pacer who gives it his all. He pitches the new ball up and lets it swing and swing it he does. He looks to get batsmen out lbw and bowled and his primary aim is to look for wickets all the time. His late swing at that pace is rivaled by a mere few in the modern era. He isn't afraid to bowl yorkers and boy, does he bowl a mean yorker. His yorker has venom and moves around like a snake and sneaks past under the bat or between the bat and pad of the batsmen. It has become a common sight when he is bowling. When he bowls a bouncer he doesn't look to shorten the length too much. He bangs it in just a little short of good length with all his might. This makes it all the more difficult for the batsman to negotiate it because reading the length and anticipating the bounce becomes a tricky ask. This is what the Pakistani bowlers of the past used to do. Wasim akram, Waqar younis and Shoaib Akhtar have all mentioned it a plenty of times in their interviews that Pakistani bowlers nowadays bowl too short when they bowl bouncers. It is because they don't want to put pressure on their shoulders and hence take the easier route. However, starc is different. He uses his height, strength and pace quite efficiently.

Adding to all that, starc's performance in the World cup 2015 was one of the most dominant display of fast bowling you will ever see in the modern era of cricket. An economy rate of 3.5 and an average of 10.1 in the premier cricket tournament of the world was an effort of legends. No wonder he was awarded man of the tournament being the single biggest factor in Australia's triumph in 2015 world cup.

Starc is yet to find his feet completely in the test format. He has not been ordinary by any stretch of imagination but there is a lot more to be done. The potential he has displayed thus far makes it a question of when and not if. Being the professional cricketing set up that Cricket Australia is, they take care of his work load and allow to play him little t20 cricket. Hence, he hasn't had an opportunity to showcase his ability completely in that format of the game. Overall, Starc is a brutal force of nature who bamboozles batsmen with his sheer ability to bowl jaffas and So far he hasn't really shown a lot of belief in trying to set up the batsman.

Muhammad Amir, since his comeback, has not been the bowler people thought he would be. In his teens he clocked 152 kph in Australia and swung the ball miles in England. The best batsmen of that era like Ponting, watson, Cook and the legends of yesteryears like Imran, wasim and Michael Holding sang praises of him. Since he came out of the whirlpool of spot fixing, he has looked a shadow of himself. Dwelling into the reasons for it or blaming his luck isn't going to hide the fact that he has failed to produce consistent results.

Muhammad Amir, post comeback, is a defensive bowler. His Raison D'etre seems to be not to get hit by the batsmen. He bowls a shorter length with the new ball and is reluctant to pitch the ball up. His lack of confidence is evident if you look at the spot where his foot lands while bowling. His pace isnt the same anymore, not that it was his primary weapon ever but his late swing is also a rare occurance now. He doesn't bowl the yorkers too often and relies on bowling away from the batsman which again displays a defensive mindset. The role of a strike bowler has been taken over by Hasan Ali. Hasan Ali's meteoric rise has reduced Amir to nothing but a support bowler who blocks one end. Amir's bouncer lacks the brute force to the point that the most dangerous delivery of a fast bowler seems gentle at times when he bowls it. Its not to say that he doesn't or can't bowl a mean bouncer to bamboozle the batsman. He can and once in a blue moon, he does. However, that doesn't make it a norm.

Amir's feat in the Champion's trophy final remains one of the peak points of his career so far and is reminiscent of what he could have become or what he can become if he puts his heart into it. In the test arena, Amir has been thoroughly average since his comeback. Apart from a couple of performances of note in Australia and West Indies, he has been off colour. His pace in UAE tests was depressingly low and it has raised concerns about his commitment towards the longest format. However, in his defence the abysmal wickets of UAE must be mentioned. One thing which has not changed and still remains Amir's big weapon is his ability to set up the batsman. He has a brains and he puts them to use. However, without the heart, the brain can only take you so far.

To sum it all up, Amir has become a tamed tiger who is unwilling to express his real nature while on the other hand, Starc unleashes the beast within like a free lion in the jungle. To the disappointment of many Pakistani fans, Starc's roar is louder and scarier than Amir's.
 
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ManFan said:
The skill gap is vast between the names you mentioned and those in this thread. That’s why the comparison is being made between them and not those whom you named.
Click to expand...

The skill gap, and more importantly - the performance gap - between Ishant and Amir isn't vast at all in tests, no matter how one spins it. Since 2014, Ishant has comfortably outperformed Amir averaging 30 against the latter's 37. Same gap in terms of Strike Rate. This despite the fact that Ishant played most of his matches in sluggish subcontinent like conditions.
 
AMSS said:
The skill gap, and more importantly - the performance gap - between Ishant and Amir isn't vast at all in tests, no matter how one spins it. Since 2014, Ishant has comfortably outperformed Amir averaging 30 against the latter's 37. Same gap in terms of Strike Rate. This despite the fact that Ishant played most of his matches in sluggish subcontinent like conditions.
Click to expand...

So are we comparing them in Tests only or ODIs?
 
They both were equally brilliant in this world cup but Starc has shown the world how big a champion he is to become the best bowler of this world cup in the last two games.
 
Day and night difference between the two. But in this WC I've been impressed with Amir since both have similar stats.
 
No comparison at all in the Test and ODI formats. Amir is not even Pakistan's best bowler in these formats.

But, Amir > Starc when it comes to the T20I format.
 
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One a genuine all time great who if wins second WC in 3 attempts will definitely surpass Wasim as the greatest left arm player while other a jailer greedy sold his mo...
 
Mohammad Amir was robbed of his innocence as a child by Salman Bitt and Mohammad Asif.

If the tragedy had not occurred, he would have broken all bowling records and would have retired as the greatest bowler of times and ages ahead of Alan Donald.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Mohammad Amir was robbed of his innocence as a child by Salman Bitt and Mohammad Asif.

If the tragedy had not occurred, he would have broken all bowling records and would have retired as the greatest bowler of times and ages ahead of Alan Donald.
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dont think so he was almost 20, its not that Butt was the most influential he had elephants like Afridi /Moyo Akhtar in dressing room. Amir upbringing as player was with fishy characters and bukies back home who probably lured him
 
Bhaijaan said:
Mohammad Amir was robbed of his innocence as a child by Salman Bitt and Mohammad Asif.

If the tragedy had not occurred, he would have broken all bowling records and would have retired as the greatest bowler of times and ages ahead of Alan Donald.
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As you sow, so shall you reap. A 14 year old cricket fan would have the sense to not get involved match or sport fixing. He was not a baby.

And no, he would have had a pretty desent career if not for what he did. Maybe an average of 28 odd in Tests.
 
Why compare Starc and Amir in the first place? While both have had their moments of success, Starc's achievements surpass Amir's by a significant margin, making any comparison seem unjust.

Starc played a pivotal role in Australia's victorious 2015 World Cup campaign, often shouldering the team's burden. Moreover, he emerged as the leading wicket-taker in the 2019 World Cup and has consistently excelled in T20I and test matches.

On the other hand, Amir's contribution was undeniable in Pakistan's Champions Trophy 2017 win, but when you consider their overall achievements, it becomes evident that Starc's accomplishments overshadow Amir's by a considerable degree.

I believe it's time for Pakistan fans to move away from the habit of comparing those who have achieved success with those who haven't quite reached their potential. If comparisons are to be made, let's focus on comparing individuals with similar levels of achievement
 
Kianig89 said:
One a genuine all time great who if wins second WC in 3 attempts will definitely surpass Wasim as the greatest left arm player while other a jailer greedy sold his mo...
Click to expand...
Not even close to being as good as Akram.
 
Numbers alone don't always offer meaningful insights. Starc is a versatile bowler who can deliver breakthroughs both at the start of an innings and during the middle and end phases. In contrast, while Amir has excelled with the new ball, his performance in the middle and at the end of an innings has never been his strong suit.
 
AMSS said:
The skill gap, and more importantly - the performance gap - between Ishant and Amir isn't vast at all in tests, no matter how one spins it. Since 2014, Ishant has comfortably outperformed Amir averaging 30 against the latter's 37. Same gap in terms of Strike Rate. This despite the fact that Ishant played most of his matches in sluggish subcontinent like conditions.
Click to expand...

Ishant gave me no reason to change my assessment. Comfortably a better bowler than Amir in tests.

In the second half of his career, Ishu averaged 26.xx with a SR of 54. Top tier stuff.
 
in my opinion Amir is little better than starc becuase of his variations.

Starc is a bit predictable.
 
Very difficult to compare. Starc has recently lit up high profile cricket matches at key times while to his credit Mohammed Amir did well in the legends league cricket against retired players.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Mohammad Amir was robbed of his innocence as a child by Salman Bitt and Mohammad Asif.

If the tragedy had not occurred, he would have broken all bowling records and would have retired as the greatest bowler of times and ages ahead of Alan Donald.
Click to expand...
I will never forgive Butt and Asif. They didn't rob just Amir but also Pakistan and the entire Asian Bloc.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Very difficult to compare. Starc has recently lit up high profile cricket matches at key times while to his credit Mohammed Amir did well in the legends league cricket against retired players.
Click to expand...
Amir still owns the jobbers in Pakistan’s T20 national top 5
 
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