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Mohammad Amir + Hasan Ali - Do they have the potential to be the next Wasim Akram + Waqar Younis?

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babajee

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Do you think Mohammad Amir and Hasan Ali have the potential to become the next Pakistani ATG fast bowling pair?
 
InshaAllah, they will.

But unlike the Ws, where they didn't let any young players develop because they controlled the dressing room, our bench strength will be much stronger. We just need to let the actual pacers come in and not Rummans and what have you.
 
Yes, but the word potential is tricky in Pakistan cricket, it can either go up or down. hit or miss.
 
Not even close.

1) Wasim and Waqar were miles ahead at the same age
2) Hasan Ali Doesn't Bowl With The New Ball (Yet)

And there's nothing wrong with that.

To come close, you need a pairing of Starc-Rabada on the same team.
 
kingusama92 said:
Not even close.

1) Wasim and Waqar were miles ahead at the same age
2) Hasan Ali Doesn't Bowl With The New Ball (Yet)

And there's nothing wrong with that.

To come close, you need a pairing of Starc-Rabada on the same team.
Click to expand...

Can you please tell me their averages in their first 50 ODI games?
 
kingusama92 said:
After 50 ODIs

Wasim Akram: 23.10 (65 Wickets)
Waqar Younis: 18.95 (89 Wickets)
Click to expand...

Well Hasan is pretty close and Amir too if had he not missed 5 years...you also have to keep in mind that both Ws played in balling era
Modern cricket averaging below 26 is a HUGE thing
 
Hassan Ali is like Waqar, but Amir is nothing close to Wasim Akram.. as Akram took 5'fers left right and center as a bowler :))
 
No.

Mohammad Amir is slightly better than Saleem Jaffer, but he is 10K slower and three inches shorter than Wasim Akram.

Hasan Ali is slightly better than Mohsin Kamal or roughly equal to Aaqib Javed. He's 25K slower than Waqar Younis and five inches shorter.
 
Junaids said:
No.

Mohammad Amir is slightly better than Saleem Jaffer, but he is 10K slower and three inches shorter than Wasim Akram.

Hasan Ali is slightly better than Mohsin Kamal or roughly equal to Aaqib Javed. He's 25K slower than Waqar Younis and five inches shorter.
Click to expand...

Lol, what are you talking about? :))
 
Bleedgreen4ever said:
Well Hasan is pretty close and Amir too if had he not missed 5 years...you also have to keep in mind that both Ws played in balling era
Modern cricket averaging below 26 is a HUGE thing
Click to expand...

Sure but Waqar was much younger (debut at 18).

At the time of his 50th ODI, Waqar was only 21.

Hasan is 23.

And Waqar at 23 was steamrolling everyone.
 
hassan ali can get close to ww when it comes to 5 fers. he has a knack for them.

amir though doesn't take enough wickets in odis
 
Leo23 said:
hassan ali can get close to ww when it comes to 5 fers. he has a knack for them.

amir though doesn't take enough wickets in odis
Click to expand...

OP is talking about potential not what they've achieved so far. In another 5 years, you can talk about Amir's lack of 5fers.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
OP is talking about potential not what they've achieved so far. In another 5 years, you can talk about Amir's lack of 5fers.
Click to expand...

so far he has not shown that potential. bowlers tend to have a knack for it and it seems that he doesnt. lets see.
 
I think that on his Test debut - in a low scoring match - Hasan Ali pretty clearly signposted both his potential and his limitations.

He has two strengths:

1) bowling round the wicket to left-handers, like Freddie Flintoff, and
2) bowling 135K swinging Yorkers.

That's okay, but it's only going to let you achieve a Test bowling average in the mid-thirties.

He has several attributes missing:

1) lack of height means he gets no lift from a good length.
2) lack of pace means that once a batsman - even a tailender - gets in, he's not going to get out unless he plays a silly shot.

I think that he has it in him to be a Test quality fourth seamer who can bat, like Ben Stokes, Andrew Flintoff, Shane Watson or Mitchell Marsh.

But he needs to work harder on his batting than his bowling. The bowling won't improve much further.
 
Last edited:
Junaids said:
I think that on his Test debut - in a low scoring match - Hasan Ali pretty clearly signposted both his potential and his limitations.

He has two strengths:

1) bowling round the wicket to left-handers, like Freddie Flintoff, and
2) bowling 135K swinging Yorkers.

That's okay, but it's only going to let you achieve a Test bowling average in the mid-thirties.

He has several attributes missing:

1) lack of height means he gets no lift from a good length.
2) lack of pace means that once a batsman - even a tailender - gets in, he's not going to get out unless he plays a silly shot.

I think that he has it in him to be a Test quality fourth seamer who can bat, like Ben Stokes, Andrew Flintoff, Shane Watson or Mitchell Marsh.

But he needs to work harder on his batting than his bowling. The bowling won't improve much further.
Click to expand...

I thought that you had jumped on the Hasan Ali bandwagon?

You said something along the lines of, in order for him to be successful with his height he has to be extremely accurate and have pace, these type of bowlers only come once in a generation, Hasan Ali might possess both attributes.
 
mmkextreme_1 said:
I thought that you had jumped on the Hasan Ali bandwagon?

You said something along the lines of, in order for him to be successful with his height he has to be extremely accurate and have pace, these type of bowlers only come once in a generation, Hasan Ali might possess both attributes.
Click to expand...
I think he can have a limited overs career, certainly.

But even Malcolm Marshall was three inches taller. No fast bowler this short has had a successful Test career in the last sixty years.

I'm happy for Hasan Ali to be a Test bowling all rounder, as follows:

In Asia: third seamer, batting at 7 or 8.
Outside Asia: fourth seamer, batting at 7.

I am clear that if he plays 80 Tests, the best possible outcomes are:

260 wickets at an average of 35.00
3500 runs at an average of 35.00

The key point here is that no country would pick a Number 7 who averages below 35 with the bat any more.

Hasan Ali only gets a lengthy Test career if he can reach that batting level - an average of 35.

So if I were Mickey Arthur, I'd be telling him to put more practice into his batting than his bowling. His bowling is as good as it can be for a short man who bowls at 135K with a point of release roughly 12 inches lower than the average fast bowler.

Only his batting can seal him a Test slot. It's that simple.
 
waleed88 said:
Hassan Ali is like Waqar, but Amir is nothing close to Wasim Akram.. as Akram took 5'fers left right and center as a bowler :))
Click to expand...

Yeah just because you don't like Amir (Because of spot fixing) it does not mean Amir is rubbish. Both Amir and Hasan are nowhere close to 2Ws in tests but they both are good in ICC trophies.
 
Don't think they will be as good as the 2Ws but happy to be proven wrong. Another thing to note is both Amir and Hasan won't look to outperform each other unlike the 2Ws.
 
Not sure if they will get that good, but these will be matchwinners for Pak for sure in the upcoming years.

Do not forget that cricket is batting heavy these days. More difficult to get wickets these days in limited overs cricket.
 
Junaids said:
No.

Mohammad Amir is slightly better than Saleem Jaffer, but he is 10K slower and three inches shorter than Wasim Akram.

Hasan Ali is slightly better than Mohsin Kamal or roughly equal to Aaqib Javed. He's 25K slower than Waqar Younis and five inches shorter.
Click to expand...
Aqib javed was a medium pacer and waqar younis was not 25ks quicker than hasan ali .
 
asif n ammir combo was the best ever we got since wasim n waqar
had they persisted for five years post 2010
they would ve been more sucessful than wasim waqar
may more than broad n anderson
but alas

apart from that due no bowling pair can come closer to wasim waqar
 
Why are we insulting the 2Ws here?

Comparing bowlers who dont even have 100 odi or test wickets with a GOAT like Wasim and ATG like Waqar.A half dead Waqar Younis bowled faster than Hassan Ali and i will not insult Wasim Akram by even mentioning his name with these two bowlers.

Anyone comparing the 2Ws with these two havent seen the 2Ws bowl at their peak.
 
I think people aren't reading what I said initially and just looking at the title of the thread. Obviously there is no way that Mohammad Amir and Hasan Ali are comparable to Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis.

What I mean is

DO they have the potential to become the next Pakistani ATG bowling pair!!
 
Hasan is a good bowler but due to his lack of height, wont be a very successful one, in the long run, particularly at test level. Amir is in different league though.
 
Hasan Ali has played 21 ODIs, and a single test. I'm not even sure how much of those he's played with Amir.

Relatedly,

CAN WE WIN WORLD CUP FINAL IN KOLKATA IN 2027?

WILL CHRIS MORRIS BE BETTER THAN JACQUES KALLIS?
 
No, they don't have as much potential as wasim and waqar, they have as much potential as alan mullaly and andy caddick
 
They will produce more 'match, series and tournament winning' performances than Wasim and Waqar.
Amir and Hasan both have already played a key role in one global tournament win each. Next will be series victory against Aus/Sa at their home.
Don't know how will it go with Wasim and Waqar going by their history and unapologetic attitude..
 
If they are anywhere even close to the 2 Ws they will be fantastic for Pakistan.

I think people too quickly forget just how good Wasim and Waqar were.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Why are we insulting the 2Ws here?

Comparing bowlers who dont even have 100 odi or test wickets with a GOAT like Wasim and ATG like Waqar.A half dead Waqar Younis bowled faster than Hassan Ali and i will not insult Wasim Akram by even mentioning his name with these two bowlers.

Anyone comparing the 2Ws with these two havent seen the 2Ws bowl at their peak.
Click to expand...

What about if Amir wins Pakistan a WC? Surely he has to be equal or if not better than Wasim because he would have won Pakistan all the ICC LOI trophies.

Wasim Akram after 1992 WC didn't play in 1996 QF and failed to win Pak 1999 WC and help Pakistan reach knockouts in 2003.

I feel Amir is a better big match player who just knows how to rise to the occasion. 2009 T20 final that over to Dilshan (form of his life and man of the tournament) was superb resulting in the decisive wicket to lead Pakistan to that trophy. Then there's always ICC CT final earlier this summer.

I see where you are coming from in bilaterals and other non-ICC ODIs Wasim Akram was way better but I will also point out you don't see Pakistan play in triangular or 4 team ODI tournaments - they're a rarity these days whereas Wasim Akram played so many each year.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Lol, what are you talking about? :))
Click to expand...

Amir is 140 km/h bowler at 6ft tall. Wasim Akram 6ft 3 who bowled 150 km/h.

Perhaps you already knew that but this is may suprise you:

Waqar Younis bowled at mid to high 150s with ease at the same stage in his career before he picked up that injury where he had to remodel himself into a swing bowler. Even then he was ATG calibre.
 
backfootpunch said:
Amir is 140 km/h bowler at 6ft tall. Wasim Akram 6ft 3 who bowled 150 km/h.

Perhaps you already knew that but this is may suprise you:

Waqar Younis bowled at mid to high 150s with ease at the same stage in his career before he picked up that injury where he had to remodel himself into a swing bowler. Even then he was ATG calibre.
Click to expand...

Amir bowls at 145 when he wants to. Young Amir bowled at 150ks. Amir like Wasim is not a one pace bowler, they adjust to situation and conditions. He will get that extra yard back inshaAllah. He's working towards it.

Hasan bowls late 130s early 140s, when the bowl starts reversing he kicks it up to 145 and his pace hasn't peaked yet. 10ks slower I can accept but he will cut that down soon.
 
backfootpunch said:
Amir is 140 km/h bowler at 6ft tall. Wasim Akram 6ft 3 who bowled 150 km/h.

Perhaps you already knew that but this is may suprise you:

Waqar Younis bowled at mid to high 150s with ease at the same stage in his career before he picked up that injury where he had to remodel himself into a swing bowler. Even then he was ATG calibre.
Click to expand...

Amir is not 6 feet, he is 5'10
 
ToeCrusher2 said:
Shami is the best asian bolwer right now, pandya is an allrounder so not sure why you'll mention him here, bumrah is the best limited overs bowler in the world
Click to expand...
Who is this Shami?

The only one I know is an Indian mediocrity who will be thirty in a couple of years, yet still hasn't even got 100 Test wickets.

Mohammad Amir is two years younger and has served a five year ban, and he's still got more Test wickets than Shami!!!!!!
 
Why do we always do this? Instead of being the next Wasim and Waqar, why can't they just be Ali and Amir? Let's learn to enjoy what we have, instead of always living in the past
 
I think there is no comparison. Cricket is much changed from that era and even though they are far behind in yorker department.
 
Typical Wasim Akram Test over aged 26: 144 147 146 146 143 142
Typical Mohammad Amir Test over aged 26: 136 137 134 141 135 137

Typical Waqar Younis Test over aged 23 (probable age in 1991): 148 152 154 152 146 147
Typical Hasan Ali Test over aged 23: 132 134 135 140 133 134
 
backfootpunch said:
Sounds about right - I've heard all sorts with his height. Google says 6ft2, I've heard 6ft and also 5ft 10, so I just took the average lol :amir2
Click to expand...

Yes there are few fans here who quoted his height on google, the funny thing is according to google Wahab was supposed to be shorter than him, when you can clearly see Wahab is about an inch taller than Amir but his height was mentioned as 5'11, while Amir was called 6 feet 2 inches :))
 
waleed88 said:
Yes there are few fans here who quoted his height on google, the funny thing is according to google Wahab was supposed to be shorter than him, when you can clearly see Wahab is about an inch taller than Amir but his height was mentioned as 5'11, while Amir was called 6 feet 2 inches :))
Click to expand...

You see I thought Wahab was 6 ft 1 - definitely read it from somwhere. Whoever publishes these likes to add a few inches for sure
 
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