Mohammad Amir v Current Pakistan T20 fast bowlers in PSL 8

[Rana]

Please discuss cricket only and not personal attacks on players,

Mohammad Amir stats:

18 overs, 8 wickets @16.62, economy 7.38

The 4 pacers who played the 2022 world cup final

Shaheen Afridi: 22 overs, 10 wickets @18.50, economy 8.40

Harris Rauf: 21 overs, 7 wickets @27.14, economy 9.04

Naseem Shah, 22 overs, 4 wickets @40.50, economy 7.36

Mohammad Wasim jr, 8 overs, 3 wickets @29.00, economy 10.87

Fast bowlers who have been a part of of Pakistan's squad since Amir was excluded

Mohammad Hasnain, 19 overs, 8 wickets @19.37, economy 8.15

Hassan Ali, 12 overs, 7 wickets @16.00, economy 9.33

How is it fair to say Amir is finished and isnt good enough to represent Pakistan on cricketing basis? Can anyone argue that Amir still isnt the best T20 fast bowler in Pakistan?

 

[MenInG]

Sorry but his past antics cannot be ignored when discussing return to Pakistan colours.

We can limit the discussion to PSL 8 if you like but I won't use that as some sort of God Given right to represent my country.

 

[Rana]

Sorry but his past antics cannot be ignored when discussing return to Pakistan colours.

We can limit the discussion to PSL 8 if you like but I won't use that as some sort of God Given right to represent my country.

What about Naseem and Shaheen's tantrums? Are they aggression or misbehaviour?

 

[Energy]

Are the stats quoted in the OP, Aamir's last 18 overs in International T20Is? Don't think so.

 

[MenInG]

What about Naseem and Shaheen's tantrums? Are they aggression or misbehaviour?

Have they sold Pakistan out, left Pakistan team for their own selfish reasons?

They would give their blood for Pakistan.

You can speak about skills etc and I will agree that on current form, Amir is outperforming Naseem but don't bring him anywhere near Pakistan.

I championed Amir's return in 2016 but after he turned his back on Pakistan again in 2021, I firmly believe our country deserves more respect than some stats from a cricket field.

 

[gazza619]

Sorry but his past antics cannot be ignored when discussing return to Pakistan colours.

We can limit the discussion to PSL 8 if you like but I won't use that as some sort of God Given right to represent my country.

I am happy with that approach as long as it is consistently applied in the whole country and all of its institutions. Why just punish the cricketers only.

As lord Shehbaz Sharif once famously said, “Beggars cant be chosers”.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Have they sold Pakistan out, left Pakistan team for their own selfish reasons?

They would give their blood for Pakistan.

You can speak about skills etc and I will agree that on current form, Amir is outperforming Naseem but don't bring him anywhere near Pakistan.

I championed Amir's return in 2016 but after he turned his back on Pakistan again in 2021, I firmly believe our country deserves more respect than some stats from a cricket field.

I think it’s a bit simplistic to say that he “turned his back on Pakistan” in 2021 given that he wasn’t being picked, and fans were fine with him not being picked. They had their shiny new toy in Shaheen and thus Amir was disposable.

If you have objections based on his behaviour in the last 6 months, then fair enough. It’s basically the reality TV version of Amir who’s breaking bad.

The man currently has no filter.

However, bridges have been built in worse scenarios. And if he can show some humility and selflessness to come back into the fold, then you absolutely have to have him back. Absolutely.

Because, and this is incredibly important, having Amir in the squad helps us manage Shaheen’s workload without compromising the quality of the pace bowling attack.

So yes, based on both stats and pragmatism, Amir needs to come back.

 

[MenInG]

I think it’s a bit simplistic to say that he “turned his back on Pakistan” in 2021 given that he wasn’t being picked, and fans were fine with him not being picked. They had their shiny new toy in Shaheen and thus Amir was disposable.

If you have objections based on his behaviour in the last 6 months, then fair enough. It’s basically the reality TV version of Amir who’s breaking bad.

The man currently has no filter.

However, bridges have been built in worse scenarios. And if he can show some humility and selflessness to come back into the fold, then you absolutely have to have him back. Absolutely.

Because, and this is incredibly important, having Amir in the squad helps us manage Shaheen’s workload without compromising the quality of the pace bowling attack.

So yes, based on both stats and pragmatism, Amir needs to come back.

Retiring from Pakistan cricket is a HUGE decision. This is not to be used to blackmail the administration to get your spot back in the team. When people don't respect our country like that, in my PERSONAL view, they have no place in our side.

 

[MenInG]

I am happy with that approach as long as it is consistently applied in the whole country and all of its institutions. Why just punish the cricketers only.

As lord Shehbaz Sharif once famously said, “Beggars cant be chosers”.

Ok guess that is our qismet that we believe in this, instead of working hard to find good talent.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Retiring from Pakistan cricket is a HUGE decision. This is not to be used to blackmail the administration to get your spot back in the team. When people don't respect our country like that, in my PERSONAL view, they have no place in our side.

With respect bro, how many of our older legends have done the same retirement Schtick. Yet they’re still respected and lauded everywhere.

 

[topspin]

There's no doubt that Amir is among the 3 best pacers for Pakistan in white ball cricket.

In terms who's the best, it's Shaheen by a country mile. Not only is he our best bowler but he's also our best player in every format. I would also say he's the only player who's ATG material.

I've called out Shaheen for his cringe backing of Babar Azam but as a cricketer, we're very lucky to have him.

Shaheen is also a much better bowler than Waqar Younis, who wouldn't have been anywhere near as good if he wasn't playing in the era of ball tampering.

I wouldn't be surprised if Shaheen can surpass Wasim Akram. He's already a better white ball bowler than Imran Khan ever was.

As for Amir vs Shaheen. It's simply not worthy of comparison and this is coming from someone who not only rates Amir but also wants him back for Pakistan so he can help us win the ODI World Cup in India later this year.

The 3 best white ball bowlers in Pakistan are Shaheen, Ihsanullah and Amir.

Followed by:

Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf,

Followed by:

Hasnain and Muhammad Wasim Jnr.

 

[shaz619]

Rana, I’m not sure why you upset dawg. Amir retired himself. Even if we ignore everything else.

Maybe you should get angry at him?

 

[shaz619]

As for the numbers, they are not light years ahead of the rest anyway.

Besides, he is injury prone to.

Amir himself doesn’t want to play for Pakistan. There’s a reason why he is called Mohammad Easy Paisa Amir.

 

[MenInG]

With respect bro, how many of our older legends have done the same retirement Schtick. Yet they’re still respected and lauded everywhere.

I think Imran Khan was the only one I remember who retired and was asked to comeback - but he did not retire because he was ignored for selection etc, he did not use that to blackmail and try it as a way to get back into the side.

Anyways, why does my opinion matter? The PCB will take the decision which they deem fit. I am simply stating how I feel.

Good luck to Pakistan and Amir if they bring him back.

 

[Marooned]

Since we are talking stats.
Ihsanullah : 14 wickets @ 5.5 economy. Proper crazy stats. And he bowls 150k.

I like Amir. Would take him as a backup option. His experience would be handy at some point.

But I don't agree he has shown enough to displace any of Rauf and Naseem.

It's just fickleness to forget that Rauf was absolutely fire in 2022 and I don't see Amir as a clear upgrade over Naseem even in t20s. In odis Naseem was bowling on a different pitch in the NZ odi series.

He can contribute as a squad player but that's about it. Nothing extraordinary about him anymore.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

No harm in Amir being in the squad based on these performances.

He can 'aggressively' carry the drinks and bring towels etc onto the field for the playing XI.

 

[Suleiman]

He is bad for the team. I know you believe in performance above everything else about a player, which is how it should be, but there’s players on occasion that are bad for the team long term.

Someone who creates unnecessary tension and animosity within the team is not good for the team’s performance in the long term. It’s just unneeded stress for the other 10 players on the field and the others in the locker room when the guy is acting liking a drama Queen.

Look no further than the Pakistan of the 90s. Talent and natural ability, but some awful personalities always plotting and scheming that created division in the team and prevented Pakistan from playing at their fullest potential.

We don’t need more characters like that. It’s not like you’re omitting Malcolm Marshall here either. The risks far outweigh the rewards.

Besides, it seems like he’s already burned his bridges with the PCB.

 

[MenInG]

Mohammad Amir pumped up and looking for more wickets

 

[MenInG]

Doesn't look fit Amir - this will not work in his favour for a return to Pakistan colours.

 

[Minnowbasher]

He's not been exceptional in the PSL by any means. Just decent and his team is sat at the bottom of the table and basically out of the tournament - not like he's producing match winning performances.
Today he went for 40 runs in 4 overs which is terrible considering he is the leader of the attack.

 

[Rana]

He's not been exceptional in the PSL by any means. Just decent and his team is sat at the bottom of the table and basically out of the tournament - not like he's producing match winning performances.
Today he went for 40 runs in 4 overs which is terrible considering he is the leader of the attack.

So what about Naseem Shah? Why the selective hatred for Amir?

 

[moghul]

Please discuss cricket only and not personal attacks on players,

Mohammad Amir stats:

18 overs, 8 wickets @16.62, economy 7.38

The 4 pacers who played the 2022 world cup final

Shaheen Afridi: 22 overs, 10 wickets @18.50, economy 8.40

Harris Rauf: 21 overs, 7 wickets @27.14, economy 9.04

Naseem Shah, 22 overs, 4 wickets @40.50, economy 7.36

Mohammad Wasim jr, 8 overs, 3 wickets @29.00, economy 10.87

Fast bowlers who have been a part of of Pakistan's squad since Amir was excluded

Mohammad Hasnain, 19 overs, 8 wickets @19.37, economy 8.15

Hassan Ali, 12 overs, 7 wickets @16.00, economy 9.33

How is it fair to say Amir is finished and isnt good enough to represent Pakistan on cricketing basis? Can anyone argue that Amir still isnt the best T20 fast bowler in Pakistan?

And, Amir has no support from the other end.

 

[gazza619]

Bowled his heart out. A half fit Amir who is at the back end of his career was still effective.

 

[Rana]

Realistically both Imad and Amir will be called up for Pakistan again under this new regime

Let’s see though

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

He's not been exceptional in the PSL by any means. Just decent and his team is sat at the bottom of the table and basically out of the tournament - not like he's producing match winning performances.
Today he went for 40 runs in 4 overs which is terrible considering he is the leader of the attack.

He, and every other quick is bowling on a road with tiny boundaries. If you actually saw his spell, he was troubling a well set Azam even. Sometimes figures don’t represent a performance and this was one of those cases.

Make no mistake, he’s the most wily quick that we have.

 

[shamaan]

Bowled his heart out. A half fit Amir who is at the back end of his career was still effective.

Bowled his heart out bowling as fast as Shahid Afridi.

 

[shamaan]

Amir can't even bowl 4 overs on the trot and we are expecting him to bowl 10 in odis.

 

[shamaan]

So what about Naseem Shah? Why the selective hatred for Amir?

Hatred based upon his past.

 

[shamaan]

No doubt about that Amir has been good in this psl however I will not pick him in Pakistan odi or t20 squad based upon various reasons.

 

[gazza619]

Realistically both Imad and Amir will be called up for Pakistan again under this new regime

Let’s see though

Very possible. Amir needs to improve his fitness though. Cant get why these guys cant bowl 4 overs without limping.

Babar will need to be kicked out captain so that we can get rid of this softy brand of cricket

 

[Saj]

Is he really that much better than what we currently have in T20Is at the moment?

I'm not so sure.

Maybe a few years ago, but these days his pace isn't what it was and he seems injury prone.

 

[Savak]

The guy has the most amount of experience amongst the bowlers playing today in the PSL and he bowled so many wides in the crucial overs of the game today.

 

[the Great Khan]

Is he really that much better than what we currently have in T20Is at the moment?

I'm not so sure.

Maybe a few years ago, but these days his pace isn't what it was and he seems injury prone.

Exactly..ok for leagues but in today's cricket he would be destroyed..

 

[ArabKnight]

Should we persist with “29 year old” Haris Rauf?

Or should we persist with “30 year old” Mohammad Amir who got Indian openers & #3 out on multiple occasions.

Only one year difference between the two, but they have massive differences in accomplishments.

Amir is a 2-time international champion bowler.

Rauf is a big time fumbler on the big stage and only gets his wickets against tailenders in bilaterals.

 

[ArabKnight]

Please discuss cricket only and not personal attacks on players,

Mohammad Amir stats:

18 overs, 8 wickets @16.62, economy 7.38

The 4 pacers who played the 2022 world cup final

Shaheen Afridi: 22 overs, 10 wickets @18.50, economy 8.40

Harris Rauf: 21 overs, 7 wickets @27.14, economy 9.04

Naseem Shah, 22 overs, 4 wickets @40.50, economy 7.36

Mohammad Wasim jr, 8 overs, 3 wickets @29.00, economy 10.87

Fast bowlers who have been a part of of Pakistan's squad since Amir was excluded

Mohammad Hasnain, 19 overs, 8 wickets @19.37, economy 8.15

Hassan Ali, 12 overs, 7 wickets @16.00, economy 9.33

How is it fair to say Amir is finished and isnt good enough to represent Pakistan on cricketing basis? Can anyone argue that Amir still isnt the best T20 fast bowler in Pakistan?

Imagine if we compared who they got out. Was it tailenders? Was it top order batters? Who was it?

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Should we persist with “29 year old” Haris Rauf?

Or should we persist with “30 year old” Mohammad Amir who got Indian openers & #3 out on multiple occasions.

Only one year difference between the two, but they have massive differences in accomplishments.

Amir is a 2-time international champion bowler.

Rauf is a big time fumbler on the big stage and only gets his wickets against tailenders in bilaterals.

Is Number 1 t20 batsmen SKY a tailender? Is Rohit a tail ender? Selective memory is a terrible thing

 

[ArabKnight]

Is Number 1 t20 batsmen SKY a tailender? Is Rohit a tail ender? Selective memory is a terrible thing

Amir has never bowled against SKY.

Rohit is Amir’s bunny. He has dismissed him on a duck at least 2-3 times. Rauf got only one out against him in Asia Cup group stage match.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Amir has never bowled against SKY.

Rohit is Amir’s bunny. He has dismissed him on a duck at least 2-3 times. Rauf got only one out against him in Asia Cup group stage match.

Right. Clearly you didn’t watch the 2022 t20 World Cup. His two wickets in the PP (along with Naseem castling KL) set up the game for Pakistan.


Tell me, what happened to Rohit in the 2019 WC if he was Amir’s ‘bunny’.

 

[sweep_shot]

Amir is only good in English conditions. He is very benign on flat pitches (based on his past international records).

But, he is only 30 (official age at least). So, he has time to make a return.

 

[insurge]

One fixer flopped so seems like you're moving onto the next one. This one will flop too. PCB went out of of their way to bring Amir back and he repaid them with mediocrity and attitude. Let him get what he wants most in the world ($$$) through t20 leagues. No reason to bring him back to the team.

 

[MenInG]

His speeds in his first over

 

[gazza619]

His speeds in his first over

Not bad considering he is 70% fit

 

[JAV12341]

I can safely say Amir is somewhere near us absolute best bowled with fire, pace and passion in this PSL. A must in the Pakistan team. We need more match winners alongside shaheen Afridi and Amir can support him

 

[Hextro]

Mohammad Amir stats:

26 overs, 9 wickets @23.33, economy 8.07

The 4 pacers who played the 2022 world cup final

Shaheen Afridi: 30 overs, 14 wickets @17.50, economy 8.16

Harris Rauf: 29 overs, 10 wickets @25.50, economy 8.79

Naseem Shah, 30 overs, 7 wickets @31.57, economy 7.36

Mohammad Wasim jr, 8 overs, 3 wickets @29.00, economy 10.87

Fast bowlers who have been a part of of Pakistan's squad since Amir was excluded

Mohammad Hasnain, 19 overs, 8 wickets @19.37, economy 8.15

Hassan Ali, 20 overs, 8 wickets @23.50, economy 9.40

Updated stats.

 

[Mercurial]

His actions were like a self-inflicted wound – retiring from Test cricket and then other formats. Without those choices, he might have remained the face of our bowling attack. At this point, discussing his role seems pretty futile.

 

[Rana]

Updated stats.

Well he is still better than at least 2 of Pakistan’s 3 main seamers

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Muhammad Amir has already passed his peak while the current bowlers are younger, more physically fit, and performing well.

I don't think any comparison can be drawn between Amir and the current fast bowlers.

 

[Rana]

This guy still the best T20 seamer in Pakistan

 

[Ahmed216]

This guy still the best T20 seamer in Pakistan

Good to see u've started to see faults in people not named Rizwan and Babar

 

[Rana]

Good to see u've started to see faults in people not named Rizwan and Babar

Those two are the reason why you have had to start this journey towards modern cricket 5 years too late

 

[Asif321]

Amir is one in generation kinda bowler . There hasn’t been anyone who comes near him .

 

[Bhaijaan]

Amir is the greatest ever talent wise. Unfortunately whatever happened to him in his teenage years wrecked his career. Fact that despite that early set back he returned after 5+ years to win the 2017 CT is amazing.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Amir is one in generation kinda bowler . There hasn’t been anyone who comes near him .

Salman Butt came near him.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Amir is the greatest ever talent wise. Unfortunately whatever happened to him in his teenage years wrecked his career. Fact that despite that early set back he returned after 5+ years to win the 2017 CT is amazing.

Ihsanullah is way more talented so is Atiq Zafar

 

[Bhaijaan]

Ihsanullah is way more talented so is Atiq Zafar

They’re baby bowlers in front of Aamir bhai

 

[RyanRyan10]

They’re baby bowlers in front of Aamir bhai

You haven't seen them bowl

 

[Sachin fan]

Amir is one in generation kinda bowler . There hasn’t been anyone who comes near him .

Yes a bowler averaging 30+ in tests and 30 in ODIs is a generation bowler. Never saw his likes ever. Better than Bumrah, Cummins, akram, McGrath, everyone

 

[RyanRyan10]

Yes a bowler averaging 30+ in tests and 30 in ODIs is a generation bowler. Never saw his likes ever. Better than Bumrah, Cummins, akram, McGrath, everyone

I think he was talking about skills he possessed. Wasim Akram had also mentioned that Amir had more potential than him. He underachieved though and has mostly himself to blame.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Ihsanullah is way more talented so is Atiq Zafar

Ihsanullah is finished, a bowler that went from bowling 150+ to now struggling to bowl 140.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Yes a bowler averaging 30+ in tests and 30 in ODIs is a generation bowler. Never saw his likes ever. Better than Bumrah, Cummins, akram, McGrath, everyone

Those numbers would’ve been different if he wasn’t banned for 5 years.

5 years of no cricket, no access to the NCA, and yet he still came back and helped us win a major tournament.

 

[ads101]

Those numbers would’ve been different if he wasn’t banned for 5 years.

5 years of no cricket, no access to the NCA, and yet he still came back and helped us win a major tournament.

Would have been different if we’d not forced him to play tests too.

His body couldn’t handle it. I’m very much against fixing but think it is stupid that a bowler owes us to play in tests just because we let him back from fixing.

I also think Amir would have done far better if guys like Shaheen or Haris were around then. Too many times he bowled well and put the pressure on only for batsmen to just go after the other fast bowlers because they were inconsistent.

He’s done now though. No point bringing back and I’m not even sure he wants to at this point.

 

[Asif321]

Yes a bowler averaging 30+ in tests and 30 in ODIs is a generation bowler. Never saw his likes ever. Better than Bumrah, Cummins, akram, McGrath, everyone

I talked post Amir not before him . And I’m talking about Pakistan not internationally.

 

[Sachin fan]

Those numbers would’ve been different if he wasn’t banned for 5 years.

5 years of no cricket, no access to the NCA, and yet he still came back and helped us win a major tournament

Funny how his numbers before and after ban are exactly same? And anyone can win tournaments if your team puts up 340 in a major final, a score never chased in history of cricket on world cups of champions trophy final.

Irfan pathan helped win is 2 world cups, ishant sharma defended 123 in a CT final, sreesanth helped us win t20 world cups, you don't see Indians hyping them so much as generation lal bowlers.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Funny how his numbers before and after ban are exactly same? And anyone can win tournaments if your team puts up 340 in a major final, a score never chased in history of cricket on world cups of champions trophy final.

Irfan pathan helped win is 2 world cups, ishant sharma defended 123 in a CT final, sreesanth helped us win t20 world cups, you don't see Indians hyping them so much as generation lal bowlers.

So, you reckon his numbers would’ve stayed the same had he not been banned for 5 years?

If Bumrah gets banned for 5 years, are you expecting him to be the same bowler he was prior to his ban?

 

[Varun]

Funny how his numbers before and after ban are exactly same? And anyone can win tournaments if your team puts up 340 in a major final, a score never chased in history of cricket on world cups of champions trophy final.

Irfan pathan helped win is 2 world cups, ishant sharma defended 123 in a CT final, sreesanth helped us win t20 world cups, you don't see Indians hyping them so much as generation lal bowlers.

Agreed - somebody like Joginder Sharma (who never played for India again) did the trick in a much, much high pressure moment and changed the face of cricket forever.

Amir being treated as a god after taking a wicket or two after the real hero of that game - Fakhar Zaman - pounded us is a joke.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Amir as a 16-17 year old had an ODI average of 24 before his ban.

Banned for 5 years and posters expect him to be the bowler he was before. Mad that.

 

[Sachin fan]

So, you reckon his numbers would’ve stayed the same had he not been banned for 5 years?

If Bumrah gets banned for 5 years, are you expecting him to be the same bowler he was prior to his ban?

Afridi, Rauf, Naseem, all were similarly hyped based on "potential". We all saw how they turned out. Even before his ban, Amirs stats were very ordinary in tests apart from couple of series in England during a time when ball was doing a lot.

He and Naseem's career were very similar before his ban.

One thing Amir is better in is he is very smart compared to these bowlers so knows to bowl within his limitations. But to claim he would be some kind of world bearing bowler is funny.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Afridi, Rauf, Naseem, all were similarly hyped based on "potential". We all saw how they turned out. Even before his ban, Amirs stats were very ordinary in tests apart from couple of series in England during a time when ball was doing a lot.

He and Naseem's career were very similar before his ban.

One thing Amir is better in is he is very smart compared to these bowlers so knows to bowl within his limitations. But to claim he would be some kind of world bearing bowler is funny.

Answer the question, If Bumrah was banned for 5 years, would he be the same bowler he was prior to his ban?

 

[TeymurBlake]

Current Pakistan pacers have been dreadful to say the least. Any bowler not in the Intl. setup would look superior to them.

Amir looks a better option than Shaheen right now. He would also look a better option than Naseem Shah, Mohammad Ali & Abbas Afridi.

Even add Haris Rauf with his inconsistencies.

 

[Sachin fan]

Answer the question, If Bumrah was banned for 5 years, would he be the same bowler he was prior to his ban?

But Amir was the same bowler as before his ban. You pretending he was great but declined is exactly the problem, his numbers before and after are same. His numbers are identical before and after his ban.

And it's hilarious you are comparing him with bumrah when we have 100 examples of pak bowlers you hyped as next akram and all fell off. From Junaid Khan to now Naseem. So it's way more likely Amir would end up as them instead of Bumrah

 

[Sachin fan]

Current Pakistan pacers have been dreadful to say the least. Any bowler not in the Intl. setup would look superior to them.

Amir looks a better option than Shaheen right now. He would also look a better option than Naseem Shah, Mohammad Ali & Abbas Afridi.

Even add Haris Rauf with his inconsistencies.

Amir was struggling to bowl a 5th over against USA in a t20. How will he bowl in ODIs and tests?

 

[mominsaigol]

But Amir was the same bowler as before his ban. You pretending he was great but declined is exactly the problem, his numbers before and after are same. His numbers are identical before and after his ban.

And it's hilarious you are comparing him with bumrah when we have 100 examples of pak bowlers you hyped as next akram and all fell off. From Junaid Khan to now Naseem. So it's way more likely Amir would end up as them instead of Bumrah

Bumrah is > Amir, no doubt and their is no comparison. Bumrah is good enough to literally be in Mcgrath's class although I have mcgrath > still.

Amir is very good but no where close. You're a very good poster and I like reading your posts but I do disagree on one thing about decline.

The numbers don't really reflect the true picture. Anyone who watched cricket during these time periods would know that 2009 Amir is clearly > Amir after he returned from his ban.

Amir after returning from a ban wasn't that good, he just happened to have one purple patch moment during 2017 final. Not taking anything away from him but 2009 Amir is clearly a world class bowler

And had Amir not been banned, he'd have crazy good numbers. Obviously not bumrah level but he was a class bowler pre ban and pakistan's best since Akram, waqar and Imran.

Not counting shabbir Ahmed due to chucking.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

But Amir was the same bowler as before his ban. You pretending he was great but declined is exactly the problem, his numbers before and after are same. His numbers are identical before and after his ban.

And it's hilarious you are comparing him with bumrah when we have 100 examples of pak bowlers you hyped as next akram and all fell off. From Junaid Khan to now Naseem. So it's way more likely Amir would end up as them instead of Bumrah

I haven’t compared him with Bumrah.

Junaid Khan wasn’t the same bowler after his injury, same goes for Shaheen. Naseem still has time to turn things around.

You can’t answer the question because you know you’re wrong. You know that a 5 year ban will have an effect on any bowler when they come back to cricket.

A 16-17 year old Amir with a bowling average of 24, banned for 5 years, wasn’t the same after his return.

As @mominsaigol said, the difference between his bowling pre ban and post ban was pretty big. The fact that he was able to maintain a decent average tells how good of a bowler he is.

Lastly, I’ll take Wasim Akram’s opinions on Amir back in 2009 over some poster who probably never watched Amir bowl in 2009.

 

[mominsaigol]

I haven’t compared him with Bumrah.

Junaid Khan wasn’t the same bowler after his injury, same goes for Shaheen. Naseem still has time to turn things around.

You can’t answer the question because you know you’re wrong. You know that a 5 year ban will have an effect on any bowler when they come back to cricket.

A 16-17 year old Amir with a bowling average of 24, banned for 5 years, wasn’t the same after his return.

As @mominsaigol said, the difference between his bowling pre ban and post ban was pretty big. The fact that he was able to maintain a decent average tells how good of a bowler he is.

Lastly, I’ll take Wasim Akram’s opinions on Amir back in 2009 over some poster who probably never watched Amir bowl in 2009.

I'd argue Amir in prime was probably > waqar.

However waqar is obviously better. Had a better career, more wickets, more iconic spells etc.

 

[mominsaigol]

Also I just read @Rana Op . I thought the thread was About Amir being the same bowler pre ban and post ban.

Anyway to answer the question, any era Amir is > pretty much any era PK bowler that made their debut after him.

Only exception being Junaid Khan during his purple patch run who's > Has been post 2017 Amir and 2019-2021 Shaheen who's > 2018-2024 Amir.

But the fact that we literally have to take Amir at his absolute worst, and pair him with every pakistani bowler ever post his debut and even then we can only find 2 bowlers who were above him shows how good he was.

Since 2019 shaheen and 2013 Junaid are no where close to 2017 Amir let alone 2009 Amir.

2009 Amir is someone who was considered close to Prime Wasim akram lol. In terms of inswing and reverse swing they were equal but Prime wasim was a smarter bowler because he was an adult male in his prime while Amir was at 17(age fudged to 19-21)

 

[TeymurBlake]

Amir was struggling to bowl a 5th over against USA in a t20. How will he bowl in ODIs and tests?

I'm saying that on current form, Pakistani pacers look weak to Amir because he is currently not a playing international bowler.

 

[mominsaigol]

I'm saying that on current form, Pakistani pacers look weak to Amir because he is currently not a playing international bowler.

If you really think that then you have zero understanding about cricket.

 

[saimayubera]

Amir reminds me of the Indian fast bowlers of the 2000s who had smallish peaks before regressing.

It's a credit to the Indian system that post 2010s have bowlers like Umesh Yadav with 170 wickets at 30.95 and Siraj with 100 at 30.74 are not even given much hype.

Indian bowlers of the 2000s -

Irfan - Won test series in Pak, won the T20 WC 07 by being MoM
RP - Won test series in Eng, was instrumental in T20 WC 07
Munaf - Was instrumental in WC 11
Nehra - Was instrumental in CT 02 and WC 11
Ishant - Won test series in Aus, NZ, Was instrumental in CT 13
Sreesanth - Helped draw a series in SA, was instrumental in T20 WC 07

Zaheer was the best of the lot - Won series in Eng, NZ, helped draw in Aus, SA, Helped win CT 02 and WC 11

Problem with guys like Naseem and Shaheen is that they are not even hitting those peaks. These two have won nothing - not a SENA test series (no 5fers against SENA home/away), no ICC tournaments, no ACC tournaments

At least Hasan Ali, Amir etc won tournaments in their peaks. Hasan Ali was also good in the SA 2021 home series.

 

[Hitman]

Answer the question, If Bumrah was banned for 5 years, would he be the same bowler he was prior to his ban?

If Bumrah was found guilty of spot fixing and banned for 5 years, he wouldn't have played any form of cricket in India after that.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Amir is a pretty handy bowler. He is intelligent but obviously, he chose a different path over the country. No need to discuss him or compare him to anyone TBH.