Mohammad Amir v Current Pakistan T20 fast bowlers in PSL 8

[Rana]

Please discuss cricket only and not personal attacks on players,

Mohammad Amir stats:

18 overs, 8 wickets @16.62, economy 7.38

The 4 pacers who played the 2022 world cup final

Shaheen Afridi: 22 overs, 10 wickets @18.50, economy 8.40

Harris Rauf: 21 overs, 7 wickets @27.14, economy 9.04

Naseem Shah, 22 overs, 4 wickets @40.50, economy 7.36

Mohammad Wasim jr, 8 overs, 3 wickets @29.00, economy 10.87

Fast bowlers who have been a part of of Pakistan's squad since Amir was excluded

Mohammad Hasnain, 19 overs, 8 wickets @19.37, economy 8.15

Hassan Ali, 12 overs, 7 wickets @16.00, economy 9.33

How is it fair to say Amir is finished and isnt good enough to represent Pakistan on cricketing basis? Can anyone argue that Amir still isnt the best T20 fast bowler in Pakistan?

 

[MenInG]

Sorry but his past antics cannot be ignored when discussing return to Pakistan colours.

We can limit the discussion to PSL 8 if you like but I won't use that as some sort of God Given right to represent my country.

 

[Rana]

Sorry but his past antics cannot be ignored when discussing return to Pakistan colours.

We can limit the discussion to PSL 8 if you like but I won't use that as some sort of God Given right to represent my country.

What about Naseem and Shaheen's tantrums? Are they aggression or misbehaviour?

 

[Energy]

Are the stats quoted in the OP, Aamir's last 18 overs in International T20Is? Don't think so.

 

[MenInG]

What about Naseem and Shaheen's tantrums? Are they aggression or misbehaviour?

Have they sold Pakistan out, left Pakistan team for their own selfish reasons?

They would give their blood for Pakistan.

You can speak about skills etc and I will agree that on current form, Amir is outperforming Naseem but don't bring him anywhere near Pakistan.

I championed Amir's return in 2016 but after he turned his back on Pakistan again in 2021, I firmly believe our country deserves more respect than some stats from a cricket field.

 

[gazza619]

Sorry but his past antics cannot be ignored when discussing return to Pakistan colours.

We can limit the discussion to PSL 8 if you like but I won't use that as some sort of God Given right to represent my country.

I am happy with that approach as long as it is consistently applied in the whole country and all of its institutions. Why just punish the cricketers only.

As lord Shehbaz Sharif once famously said, “Beggars cant be chosers”.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Have they sold Pakistan out, left Pakistan team for their own selfish reasons?

They would give their blood for Pakistan.

You can speak about skills etc and I will agree that on current form, Amir is outperforming Naseem but don't bring him anywhere near Pakistan.

I championed Amir's return in 2016 but after he turned his back on Pakistan again in 2021, I firmly believe our country deserves more respect than some stats from a cricket field.

I think it’s a bit simplistic to say that he “turned his back on Pakistan” in 2021 given that he wasn’t being picked, and fans were fine with him not being picked. They had their shiny new toy in Shaheen and thus Amir was disposable.

If you have objections based on his behaviour in the last 6 months, then fair enough. It’s basically the reality TV version of Amir who’s breaking bad.

The man currently has no filter.

However, bridges have been built in worse scenarios. And if he can show some humility and selflessness to come back into the fold, then you absolutely have to have him back. Absolutely.

Because, and this is incredibly important, having Amir in the squad helps us manage Shaheen’s workload without compromising the quality of the pace bowling attack.

So yes, based on both stats and pragmatism, Amir needs to come back.

 

[MenInG]

I think it’s a bit simplistic to say that he “turned his back on Pakistan” in 2021 given that he wasn’t being picked, and fans were fine with him not being picked. They had their shiny new toy in Shaheen and thus Amir was disposable.

If you have objections based on his behaviour in the last 6 months, then fair enough. It’s basically the reality TV version of Amir who’s breaking bad.

The man currently has no filter.

However, bridges have been built in worse scenarios. And if he can show some humility and selflessness to come back into the fold, then you absolutely have to have him back. Absolutely.

Because, and this is incredibly important, having Amir in the squad helps us manage Shaheen’s workload without compromising the quality of the pace bowling attack.

So yes, based on both stats and pragmatism, Amir needs to come back.

Retiring from Pakistan cricket is a HUGE decision. This is not to be used to blackmail the administration to get your spot back in the team. When people don't respect our country like that, in my PERSONAL view, they have no place in our side.

 

[MenInG]

I am happy with that approach as long as it is consistently applied in the whole country and all of its institutions. Why just punish the cricketers only.

As lord Shehbaz Sharif once famously said, “Beggars cant be chosers”.

Ok guess that is our qismet that we believe in this, instead of working hard to find good talent.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Retiring from Pakistan cricket is a HUGE decision. This is not to be used to blackmail the administration to get your spot back in the team. When people don't respect our country like that, in my PERSONAL view, they have no place in our side.

With respect bro, how many of our older legends have done the same retirement Schtick. Yet they’re still respected and lauded everywhere.

 

[topspin]

There's no doubt that Amir is among the 3 best pacers for Pakistan in white ball cricket.

In terms who's the best, it's Shaheen by a country mile. Not only is he our best bowler but he's also our best player in every format. I would also say he's the only player who's ATG material.

I've called out Shaheen for his cringe backing of Babar Azam but as a cricketer, we're very lucky to have him.

Shaheen is also a much better bowler than Waqar Younis, who wouldn't have been anywhere near as good if he wasn't playing in the era of ball tampering.

I wouldn't be surprised if Shaheen can surpass Wasim Akram. He's already a better white ball bowler than Imran Khan ever was.

As for Amir vs Shaheen. It's simply not worthy of comparison and this is coming from someone who not only rates Amir but also wants him back for Pakistan so he can help us win the ODI World Cup in India later this year.

The 3 best white ball bowlers in Pakistan are Shaheen, Ihsanullah and Amir.

Followed by:

Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf,

Followed by:

Hasnain and Muhammad Wasim Jnr.

 

[shaz619]

Rana, I’m not sure why you upset dawg. Amir retired himself. Even if we ignore everything else.

Maybe you should get angry at him?

 

[shaz619]

As for the numbers, they are not light years ahead of the rest anyway.

Besides, he is injury prone to.

Amir himself doesn’t want to play for Pakistan. There’s a reason why he is called Mohammad Easy Paisa Amir.

 

[MenInG]

With respect bro, how many of our older legends have done the same retirement Schtick. Yet they’re still respected and lauded everywhere.

I think Imran Khan was the only one I remember who retired and was asked to comeback - but he did not retire because he was ignored for selection etc, he did not use that to blackmail and try it as a way to get back into the side.

Anyways, why does my opinion matter? The PCB will take the decision which they deem fit. I am simply stating how I feel.

Good luck to Pakistan and Amir if they bring him back.

 

[Marooned]

Since we are talking stats.
Ihsanullah : 14 wickets @ 5.5 economy. Proper crazy stats. And he bowls 150k.

I like Amir. Would take him as a backup option. His experience would be handy at some point.

But I don't agree he has shown enough to displace any of Rauf and Naseem.

It's just fickleness to forget that Rauf was absolutely fire in 2022 and I don't see Amir as a clear upgrade over Naseem even in t20s. In odis Naseem was bowling on a different pitch in the NZ odi series.

He can contribute as a squad player but that's about it. Nothing extraordinary about him anymore.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

No harm in Amir being in the squad based on these performances.

He can 'aggressively' carry the drinks and bring towels etc onto the field for the playing XI.

 

[Suleiman]

He is bad for the team. I know you believe in performance above everything else about a player, which is how it should be, but there’s players on occasion that are bad for the team long term.

Someone who creates unnecessary tension and animosity within the team is not good for the team’s performance in the long term. It’s just unneeded stress for the other 10 players on the field and the others in the locker room when the guy is acting liking a drama Queen.

Look no further than the Pakistan of the 90s. Talent and natural ability, but some awful personalities always plotting and scheming that created division in the team and prevented Pakistan from playing at their fullest potential.

We don’t need more characters like that. It’s not like you’re omitting Malcolm Marshall here either. The risks far outweigh the rewards.

Besides, it seems like he’s already burned his bridges with the PCB.

 

[MenInG]

Mohammad Amir pumped up and looking for more wickets

 

[MenInG]

Doesn't look fit Amir - this will not work in his favour for a return to Pakistan colours.

 

[Minnowbasher]

He's not been exceptional in the PSL by any means. Just decent and his team is sat at the bottom of the table and basically out of the tournament - not like he's producing match winning performances.
Today he went for 40 runs in 4 overs which is terrible considering he is the leader of the attack.

 

[Rana]

He's not been exceptional in the PSL by any means. Just decent and his team is sat at the bottom of the table and basically out of the tournament - not like he's producing match winning performances.
Today he went for 40 runs in 4 overs which is terrible considering he is the leader of the attack.

So what about Naseem Shah? Why the selective hatred for Amir?

 

[moghul]

Please discuss cricket only and not personal attacks on players,

Mohammad Amir stats:

18 overs, 8 wickets @16.62, economy 7.38

The 4 pacers who played the 2022 world cup final

Shaheen Afridi: 22 overs, 10 wickets @18.50, economy 8.40

Harris Rauf: 21 overs, 7 wickets @27.14, economy 9.04

Naseem Shah, 22 overs, 4 wickets @40.50, economy 7.36

Mohammad Wasim jr, 8 overs, 3 wickets @29.00, economy 10.87

Fast bowlers who have been a part of of Pakistan's squad since Amir was excluded

Mohammad Hasnain, 19 overs, 8 wickets @19.37, economy 8.15

Hassan Ali, 12 overs, 7 wickets @16.00, economy 9.33

How is it fair to say Amir is finished and isnt good enough to represent Pakistan on cricketing basis? Can anyone argue that Amir still isnt the best T20 fast bowler in Pakistan?

And, Amir has no support from the other end.

 

[gazza619]

Bowled his heart out. A half fit Amir who is at the back end of his career was still effective.

 

[Rana]

Realistically both Imad and Amir will be called up for Pakistan again under this new regime

Let’s see though

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

He's not been exceptional in the PSL by any means. Just decent and his team is sat at the bottom of the table and basically out of the tournament - not like he's producing match winning performances.
Today he went for 40 runs in 4 overs which is terrible considering he is the leader of the attack.

He, and every other quick is bowling on a road with tiny boundaries. If you actually saw his spell, he was troubling a well set Azam even. Sometimes figures don’t represent a performance and this was one of those cases.

Make no mistake, he’s the most wily quick that we have.

 

[shamaan]

Bowled his heart out. A half fit Amir who is at the back end of his career was still effective.

Bowled his heart out bowling as fast as Shahid Afridi.

 

[shamaan]

Amir can't even bowl 4 overs on the trot and we are expecting him to bowl 10 in odis.

 

[shamaan]

So what about Naseem Shah? Why the selective hatred for Amir?

Hatred based upon his past.

 

[shamaan]

No doubt about that Amir has been good in this psl however I will not pick him in Pakistan odi or t20 squad based upon various reasons.

 

[gazza619]

Realistically both Imad and Amir will be called up for Pakistan again under this new regime

Let’s see though

Very possible. Amir needs to improve his fitness though. Cant get why these guys cant bowl 4 overs without limping.

Babar will need to be kicked out captain so that we can get rid of this softy brand of cricket

 

[Saj]

Is he really that much better than what we currently have in T20Is at the moment?

I'm not so sure.

Maybe a few years ago, but these days his pace isn't what it was and he seems injury prone.

 

[Savak]

The guy has the most amount of experience amongst the bowlers playing today in the PSL and he bowled so many wides in the crucial overs of the game today.

 

[the Great Khan]

Is he really that much better than what we currently have in T20Is at the moment?

I'm not so sure.

Maybe a few years ago, but these days his pace isn't what it was and he seems injury prone.

Exactly..ok for leagues but in today's cricket he would be destroyed..

 

[ArabKnight]

Should we persist with “29 year old” Haris Rauf?

Or should we persist with “30 year old” Mohammad Amir who got Indian openers & #3 out on multiple occasions.

Only one year difference between the two, but they have massive differences in accomplishments.

Amir is a 2-time international champion bowler.

Rauf is a big time fumbler on the big stage and only gets his wickets against tailenders in bilaterals.

 

[ArabKnight]

Please discuss cricket only and not personal attacks on players,

Mohammad Amir stats:

18 overs, 8 wickets @16.62, economy 7.38

The 4 pacers who played the 2022 world cup final

Shaheen Afridi: 22 overs, 10 wickets @18.50, economy 8.40

Harris Rauf: 21 overs, 7 wickets @27.14, economy 9.04

Naseem Shah, 22 overs, 4 wickets @40.50, economy 7.36

Mohammad Wasim jr, 8 overs, 3 wickets @29.00, economy 10.87

Fast bowlers who have been a part of of Pakistan's squad since Amir was excluded

Mohammad Hasnain, 19 overs, 8 wickets @19.37, economy 8.15

Hassan Ali, 12 overs, 7 wickets @16.00, economy 9.33

How is it fair to say Amir is finished and isnt good enough to represent Pakistan on cricketing basis? Can anyone argue that Amir still isnt the best T20 fast bowler in Pakistan?

Imagine if we compared who they got out. Was it tailenders? Was it top order batters? Who was it?

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Should we persist with “29 year old” Haris Rauf?

Or should we persist with “30 year old” Mohammad Amir who got Indian openers & #3 out on multiple occasions.

Only one year difference between the two, but they have massive differences in accomplishments.

Amir is a 2-time international champion bowler.

Rauf is a big time fumbler on the big stage and only gets his wickets against tailenders in bilaterals.

Is Number 1 t20 batsmen SKY a tailender? Is Rohit a tail ender? Selective memory is a terrible thing

 

[ArabKnight]

Is Number 1 t20 batsmen SKY a tailender? Is Rohit a tail ender? Selective memory is a terrible thing

Amir has never bowled against SKY.

Rohit is Amir’s bunny. He has dismissed him on a duck at least 2-3 times. Rauf got only one out against him in Asia Cup group stage match.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Amir has never bowled against SKY.

Rohit is Amir’s bunny. He has dismissed him on a duck at least 2-3 times. Rauf got only one out against him in Asia Cup group stage match.

Right. Clearly you didn’t watch the 2022 t20 World Cup. His two wickets in the PP (along with Naseem castling KL) set up the game for Pakistan.


Tell me, what happened to Rohit in the 2019 WC if he was Amir’s ‘bunny’.

 

[sweep_shot]

Amir is only good in English conditions. He is very benign on flat pitches (based on his past international records).

But, he is only 30 (official age at least). So, he has time to make a return.

 

[insurge]

One fixer flopped so seems like you're moving onto the next one. This one will flop too. PCB went out of of their way to bring Amir back and he repaid them with mediocrity and attitude. Let him get what he wants most in the world ($$$) through t20 leagues. No reason to bring him back to the team.

 

[MenInG]

His speeds in his first over

 

[gazza619]

His speeds in his first over

Not bad considering he is 70% fit

 

[JAV12341]

I can safely say Amir is somewhere near us absolute best bowled with fire, pace and passion in this PSL. A must in the Pakistan team. We need more match winners alongside shaheen Afridi and Amir can support him

 

[Hextro]

Mohammad Amir stats:

26 overs, 9 wickets @23.33, economy 8.07

The 4 pacers who played the 2022 world cup final

Shaheen Afridi: 30 overs, 14 wickets @17.50, economy 8.16

Harris Rauf: 29 overs, 10 wickets @25.50, economy 8.79

Naseem Shah, 30 overs, 7 wickets @31.57, economy 7.36

Mohammad Wasim jr, 8 overs, 3 wickets @29.00, economy 10.87

Fast bowlers who have been a part of of Pakistan's squad since Amir was excluded

Mohammad Hasnain, 19 overs, 8 wickets @19.37, economy 8.15

Hassan Ali, 20 overs, 8 wickets @23.50, economy 9.40

Updated stats.

 

[Mercurial]

His actions were like a self-inflicted wound – retiring from Test cricket and then other formats. Without those choices, he might have remained the face of our bowling attack. At this point, discussing his role seems pretty futile.

 

[Rana]

Updated stats.

Well he is still better than at least 2 of Pakistan’s 3 main seamers

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Muhammad Amir has already passed his peak while the current bowlers are younger, more physically fit, and performing well.

I don't think any comparison can be drawn between Amir and the current fast bowlers.