Mohammad Amir v Current Pakistan T20 fast bowlers in PSL 8

[Sachin fan]

I'd argue Amir in prime was probably > waqar.

However waqar is obviously better. Had a better career, more wickets, more iconic spells etc.

And this is based on what dude? Sorry I have to disagree, he has only two good series in tests and both where english pitches were unplayable, the same kind of conditions RP singh won a series for india in England.

Waqar at his peak performed in every single pitch, Amir before his ban averaged 40 in Australia, 44 in new zealand and 44 in Sri Lanka. He didn't play anywhere else except england where he played 6 tests averaging 19.

His overall average before his ban was 29. How is this anywhere near Waqar at his peak before his injury? What are you defining as Amirs peak?

 

[mominsaigol]

If Bumrah was found guilty of spot fixing and banned for 5 years, he wouldn't have played any form of cricket in India after that.

I have tons of respect for Bumrah. No nonsense, no arrogance, no rubbish spoken on media, no misbehaviour on the field,

Just the ball doing the entire talking. It's a shame he's injury prone because under him India was a professional world class test unit at Perth and in the 5th test.

Under rohit they all became a . Hige respect for rohit in terms of Odi and t20 captaincy but this dude doesn't understand test cricket. Horrible test fielding captain and this man ran his ace bowler into the ground and got him injured .

Rohit's only plan for BGT was bumrah or bust. He didn't help his bowlers with field settings at all. And that cringe rained off game celebration wouldn't have happened under bumrah.

Theirs no way any serious cricket fan can hate bumrah unless their biased or racist for no reason.

 

[mominsaigol]

And this is based on what dude? Sorry I have to disagree, he has only two good series in tests and both where english pitches were unplayable, the same kind of conditions RP singh won a series for india in England.

Waqar at his peak performed in every single pitch, Amir before his ban averaged 40 in Australia, 44 in new zealand and 44 in Sri Lanka. He didn't play anywhere else except england where he played 6 tests averaging 19.

His overall average before his ban was 29. How is this anywhere near Waqar at his peak before his injury? What are you defining as Amirs peak?

Mostly 2009 world cup. 2010 he started to decline as well.

As @saimayubera said, Amir is eerily similar to Indian bowlers of the past like Irfan pathan who had a breath taking peak nut collapsed hard straight after.

But in 2009 wasim akram.hinself was praising him and argued he could be a genuine replacement for him.

Also I would take 2010 with a grain of salt due to fixing, Amir was only caught vs Aus, theirs no telling how long this spot fixing drama was happening and in which series since he clearly bowled poorly vs Aus on purpose for extra cash.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

If Bumrah was found guilty of spot fixing and banned for 5 years, he wouldn't have played any form of cricket in India after that.

Let me be more specific.

If Bumrah made his debut at the age of 16-17, was then banned for 5 years and then BCCI picked him after his ban was over for the national team, would you expect him to be the same bowler that he was prior to his ban? If not, would he become better or worse?

If the answer is better, would you say that a 5 year ban was beneficial for a bowler of his age?

 

[Sachin fan]

Let me be more specific.

If Bumrah made his debut at the age of 16-17, was then banned for 5 years and then BCCI picked him after his ban was over for the national team, would you expect him to be the same bowler that he was prior to his ban? If not, would he become better or worse?

If the answer is better, would you say that a 5 year ban was beneficial for a bowler of his age?

Counter point, being banned for 5 years doesn't mean he would have automatically become a legend without the ban. He would still be in the pakistani system so it's way more likely he would end up like afridi or Naseem.

16 year old Naseem was hyped up same by you guys. If Naseem had been banned when he was 17 you guys would claim he would be better than wasim or McGrath if he wasnt banned.

Hyping every bowler has been the norm with Pak fans so forgive me for not believing Amir would somehow have a long great career without the ban when no pakistani fast bowlers had for over 2 decades.

 

[mominsaigol]

Counter point, being banned for 5 years doesn't mean he would have automatically become a legend without the ban. He would still be in the pakistani system so it's way more likely he would end up like afridi or Naseem.

16 year old Naseem was hyped up same by you guys. If Naseem had been banned when he was 17 you guys would claim he would be better than wasim or McGrath if he wasnt banned.

Hyping every bowler has been the norm with Pak fans so forgive me for not believing Amir would somehow have a long great career without the ban when no pakistani fast bowlers had for over 2 decades.

About Naseem,

The reason Naseem is flopping is due to fitness. Before India Asia cup game he was accurately bowling test match line and length, and the likes of Bumrah + mcgrath have shown that bowling such lengths works like a charm even in odi and t20 cricket.

Before Asia cup, naseem had picked up one odi wicket In every single international game he played in (test, pdi and t20) and even in Asia cup, he got Gill dismissed twice but chacha has always been a butter fingers so he dropped it 2x.

Problem is after injury, his pace was down and he clearly gained weight. You can clearly tell he's fat and unfit. The reason his test match line and length isn't working is cause he is now bowling at 120 to 132 KPH as compared to 141 to 145kph like he was previously.

And he's no mcgrath, Mcgrath is the only one who can bowl slow and get away with it cause literally no one not even Bumrah can consistently bowl that 3rd unplayable offstump line 24/7. Mcgrath has literally bowled that line for over a 100+ deliveries in test games lol.

As for Shaheen, Same problem, he hasn't gained weight but his fitness has declined + his speed is down. My guess is because he is aging and injury took him over . Shaheen is clearly not 24. I am 24 and shaheen looks old enough to be my eldest cousin. My guess he's 29-30.

Amir was 19-21. He wasn't 17 obviously but he was in that 19-21 age range. And even after ban, he never lost his fitness.

Bowlers don't decline at 26 to 27 infact they peak so he should have been the same bowler imo.

Bumrah and mcgrath are exceptions and so are many top tier bowlers but that's because these types of bowlers don't focus on raw pace and trying to master that inswing or outswing delivery.

Shaheen consistently tries that unplayable inswing even if conditons don't allow it.

Bumrah + Mcgrath were able to bowl accurate consistent line and length. Bumrah has more variety tbf , but both these bowlers can dominate on roads due to skill level.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Counter point, being banned for 5 years doesn't mean he would have automatically become a legend without the ban. He would still be in the pakistani system so it's way more likely he would end up like afridi or Naseem.

16 year old Naseem was hyped up same by you guys. If Naseem had been banned when he was 17 you guys would claim he would be better than wasim or McGrath if he wasnt banned.

Hyping every bowler has been the norm with Pak fans so forgive me for not believing Amir would somehow have a long great career without the ban when no pakistani fast bowlers had for over 2 decades.

Bruh, we’ve been debating on this thread for like 3 days and you’ve still not answered a single question of mines.
Nobody said he would’ve been a legend if he wasn’t banned.

Nobody compared him to Bumrah, I used him as an example only.
He wasn’t overhyped, his hype was justified. How many 16-17 year olds can average 24 in ODI’s after touring away to SA, SL and Aus?

You keep comparing his hype to Naseem’s, when both players had completely different starts to their careers.

Naseem Shah was struggling at the start of his career, was Amir struggling? No, he was taking wickets of players like Ponting and Watson at 16-17. Amir was getting 6 wicket hauls in England. The hype at his age was justified, if you disagree then tell me what more could have done before his ban to justify the hype?
A five year ban robbed him of crucial development, the hype was stemmed from genuine talent and performances against the big teams at a very young age that was derailed by circumstances, not by lack of talent or skill.

You can’t answer the question, so I’ll answer on your behalf. Yes, a 5 year ban would’ve had a negative impact on any fast bowler. Yes, had he not been banned his numbers would’ve been a lot better, especially since he was still able to keep a decent average after his ban.