Mohammad Amir's pace in UAE Test matches

[New Yorker]

Most bowlers look threatening when defending 340 in ODI and 600 in tests. That doesn't translates to all bowlers look threatening all the time while defending 340 in ODI and 600 in tests. We have had many instances of 300+ getting chased, but most of the times when you put 340 then match is already over. History shows that. Then you add a unique pressure of ICC final and 340 runs.

In ICC finals, how many times 340 has been chased? How many times 300 has been chased?

You doth protest too much sir. 'My argument was not X unsubstantiated assertion but Y unsubstantiated assertion!!' isn't going win you any debating prizes.

If not Bumrah, what other Indian bowler ran through the Lanka top order in that Lanka game? Where are these 'most' bowlers?

There were no demons in the pitch in the CT final. Dhawan looked under no pressure whatsoever, but got a beautiful delivery after having been set up. Like Rohit and Kohli he was not out playing recklessly.

Amir bowled one of the great ODI spells in that CT final. Simple as that.

Does that make him a great ODI bowler? No, I don't think so, and his numbers don't say so. Like you said, no 5fers. He's a decent ODI bowler, but he comes good like few others in big games.

 

[Saj]

He did not look 100% fit in Abu Dhabi and if a player is not 100% match fit he should not be picked.

He struggled with pace, consistency and rhythm.

 

[Buffet]

You doth protest too much sir. 'My argument was not X unsubstantiated assertion but Y unsubstantiated assertion!!' isn't going win you any debating prizes.

If not Bumrah, what other Indian bowler ran through the Lanka top order in that Lanka game? Where are these 'most' bowlers?

There were no demons in the pitch in the CT final. Dhawan looked under no pressure whatsoever, but got a beautiful delivery after having been set up. Like Rohit and Kohli he was not out playing recklessly.

Amir bowled one of the great ODI spells in that CT final. Simple as that.

Does that make him a great ODI bowler? No, I don't think so, and his numbers don't say so. Like you said, no 5fers. He's a decent ODI bowler, but he comes good like few others in big games.

Do you praise a batsman for chasing 150 runs in 50 overs ODI citing few examples of batsmen failing to chase 150? No one does that. Same way, no one praises a bowlers to win matches when batsmen put 340 runs in a big pressure game.

Amir is a good ODI bowler, but CT is not a good example of Pakistan winning it due to his bowling.

 

[Buffet]

I also think that Pakistani PPers over-hype Indian ODI batting. Anyone can check match thread of CT. As soon as Pakistan put that big score, I said Pakistan had it in bag. Still many posters were afraid of Kohli and Co. Kohli or no Kohli, it's simply too hard to chase 340 runs in pressure games. You can get big partnership and still lose because 340 is lots of runs in pressure games. Yes, it can and it will get chased time to time, but majority of times you are going to win with such a massive score to defend in pressure games.

 

[Madplayer]

He was bowling in 41 degrees celcius, how om earth do you bowl 140 there, you need to manage yourself in these conditions and he has bowled non stop since summer. Everyone knows he can crack it up whenever he wants. Come the good conditions, he will be up there again.

But then why is he in the team if he is tired and cant bowl at his best?

Hot conditions is quite honestly an excuse when the bowler is bowling at 127 kph. Hasan averaged a good 135kph and he is supposed to be slower than amir who averaged a pathetic 130 and bowled maximum deliveries between 127-132.

And on the contrary , In good conditions he can afford to slow down and use the conditions for swing and seam. It is here in dry conditions where his pace is required and he chooses to just trundle in.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

But then why is he in the team if he is tired and cant bowl at his best?

Hot conditions is quite honestly an excuse when the bowler is bowling at 127 kph. Hasan averaged a good 135kph and he is supposed to be slower than amir who averaged a pathetic 130 and bowled maximum deliveries between 127-132.

And on the contrary , In good conditions he can afford to slow down and use the conditions for swing and seam. It is here in dry conditions where his pace is required and he chooses to just trundle in.

The only surprise for me was Abbas. He was even slower and is not tall either but with an average speed of 80 mph, he managed to take 5 wickets conceding only 97 runs. That's very impressive.

 

[hadi123]

Still, did not win the matches for his team. Sure you can look million dollars without really having the impact to win matches... That is how Rohit Sharma used to be before he moved to open in LOIs

Not his fault we didn't win. Cricket is a team game. We lost both of those matches as our batting let us down. If we had just about 20 more runs in both those matches it could have been a different story.

 

[Madplayer]

The only surprise for me was Abbas. He was even slower and is not tall either but with an average speed of 80 mph, he managed to take 5 wickets conceding only 97 runs. That's very impressive.

He is a actually a good bowler and potentially lethal in helpful conditions. He has been topping the charts in FC since last few years now. I back him to be Pakistan's most successful bowler when they play in England.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Reminds me of Zaheer khan when Chappel was the coach. He would start his spell at 135 kph. It will become 130 kph in the 2nd. and 125 in the 3rd. He will become totally useless at that time. Then they whipped him into shape. I clearly think Amir lacks match fitness.

 

[aloo paratha]

He was bowling in 41 degrees celcius, how om earth do you bowl 140 there, you need to manage yourself in these conditions and he has bowled non stop since summer. Everyone knows he can crack it up whenever he wants. Come the good conditions, he will be up there again.

Hasan Ali bowled an average pace of around 135, why can't Amir? Not fit enough? We're just gonna keep heating excuses for Amir...

 

[Gubol123]

Not his fault we didn't win. Cricket is a team game. We lost both of those matches as our batting let us down. If we had just about 20 more runs in both those matches it could have been a different story.

By the same logic he did not do much in CT final. Batsman won thst game

 

[AlizeeFan]

I also think that Pakistani PPers over-hype Indian ODI batting. Anyone can check match thread of CT. As soon as Pakistan put that big score, I said Pakistan had it in bag. Still many posters were afraid of Kohli and Co. Kohli or no Kohli, it's simply too hard to chase 340 runs in pressure games. You can get big partnership and still lose because 340 is lots of runs in pressure games. Yes, it can and it will get chased time to time, but majority of times you are going to win with such a massive score to defend in pressure games.

It's golden rule in final. You put runs on board, you win. A team has to perform very poorly to lose game from such position in such a big match.

Even an all time best batting line up would struggle to chase that 9 out 10 times.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He is a actually a good bowler and potentially lethal in helpful conditions. He has been topping the charts in FC since last few years now. I back him to be Pakistan's most successful bowler when they play in England.

Yeah I expect him to be like a Pakistani philander in helpful conditions. Except on pitches like those we find in Australia he should do well in most places.

 

[hadi123]

By the same logic he did not do much in CT final. Batsman won thst game

Cricket is a team game. Our batsmen done their bit that day and Amir backed it up with good bowling hence the better team won which was Pakistan

 

[sachin100]

Cricket is a team game. Our batsmen done their bit that day and Amir backed it up with good bowling hence the better team won which was Pakistan

nobody is questioning that assertion.pak was superior on that day and they won fair and square. the problem is exaggeration of amirs performance

 

[Timewaster]

Amir was once thought of as a bowler who could turn a Test match around with a magic spell. He cleary isnt of that level.
I would rather someone like Wahab instead who can be average but has the potential to change a match with a magic spell, Amir doesnt have that potential.

Amir is a ODI bowler who can keep it tidy.
Stats dont lie, he is average and on the verge of being dropped.

 

[Savak]

Amir was once thought of as a bowler who could turn a Test match around with a magic spell. He cleary isnt of that level.
I would rather someone like Wahab instead who can be average but has the potential to change a match with a magic spell, Amir doesnt have that potential.

Amir is a ODI bowler who can keep it tidy.
Stats dont lie, he is average and on the verge of being dropped.

The truth. But its not his fault, we are responsible for over rating him for looking good in England in 2010 where even RP Singh looked like a legend in helpful conditions.

 

[Madplayer]

The truth. But its not his fault, we are responsible for over rating him for looking good in England in 2010 where even RP Singh looked like a legend in helpful conditions.

He swung it in those helpful conditions of 2010 but tbh the hype was also because of his age, pace and accuracy. He is still fairly accurate and can still swing it in helpful conditions or even few deliveries in unhelpful conditions. But its the pace aspect currently which is shocking.

He clocked above 152kph in Australia as a teenager and was known to have the ability to crank it up to 90mph whenever he wanted. Thats what made him exciting, coupled with accuracy and all.

Now he bowls at 127 kph. For me personally this is hard to accept.

 

[Mueez]

Hopefully he will come back strong in the 2nd test.

 

[Rightarmfast]

Not his fault we didn't win. Cricket is a team game. We lost both of those matches as our batting let us down. If we had just about 20 more runs in both those matches it could have been a different story.

Lolz, funny how these logics disappear when Indian players are concerned, especially Tendulkar, on this forum ...Hypocricy much?

 

[Saj]

Left the field limping again today.

Looks nowhere near full fitness.

Seems illogical to keep picking him when he is clearly not 100% fit.

 

[Rayyman]

Left the field limping again today.

Looks nowhere near full fitness.

Seems illogical to keep picking him when he is clearly not 100% fit.

At least his pace was up today. Averaging in late 130s.

 

[Madplayer]

At least his pace was up today. Averaging in late 130s.

Perhaps he read this thread.

Or perhaps he knows this is the last test match and he needs to give it his all. 1st test match wasnt important for him it seems.

 

[MenInG]

Perhaps he read this thread.

Or perhaps he knows this is the last test match and he needs to give it his all. 1st test match wasnt important for him it seems.

or perhaps he knows that trying to bowl fast on a dead wicket could be useless? or is simply following orders laid down by the management?

 

[majiz]

Dude is absolutely trundling in
Should maybe stick to county cricket

 

[Reddy]

Perhaps he read this thread.

Or perhaps he knows this is the last test match and he needs to give it his all. 1st test match wasnt important for him it seems.

Looks like word got around to Amir about his slow speeds, so he tried to crank it up but in the process, he ended up limping out the ground.

 

[Ellipsism]

Second worst SR in the 2016-17 period any test bowler (min. 10 wickets)

 

[sachin100]

Ishant sharmas thread on amir is proven right. He is the second best to ishant in terms of worse strike rates.

Atleast ishant didn't play so many matches as him

 

[Madplayer]

or perhaps he knows that trying to bowl fast on a dead wicket could be useless? or is simply following orders laid down by the management?

Yes quite possible. But All of these supposed reasons make his case weaker rather than stronger.

Cant understand what his role in the team is. Surely cant be to go through motions.

 

[MenInG]

He is not fit by the looks of it and gone off

 

[GudduBadmash]

or perhaps he knows that trying to bowl fast on a dead wicket could be useless? or is simply following orders laid down by the management?

So wait the management want him to trundle in and not bother trying to bowl? Just in the team to make up numbers? Strange excuse, has no place in the team on dead tracks, by all means get him in every tour on a green track but he offers nothing on flat pitches, relies on swing and seam, without it he is just another mediocre bowler

 

[jnaveen1980]

On these pitches bowlers who can reverse will be more effective.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

He has been disappointing tbh. UAE is graveyard for fast bowlers but sometimes i feel he just doesn't put any effort.

 

[Mamoon]

The way I see it is that he clearly has the ability to be a world class bowler, but unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have the heart. After all, cricket is a game of character and that is something he has never had.

The world is full of people who have the capacity to achieve great things but fall short because of their desire to look for shortcuts. He showed early symptoms when he agreed to make some quick money by bowling no-balls and risking long-term prosperity.

Fan-boys will be fan-boys, but don't expect him to pull his socks up and reach the shores when he is swimming against the tide. However, he will definitely turn up while defending 340 nine out ten times.

 

[Amoeba]

According to everyone here he was the next Wasim Akram.

 

[Buffet]

According to everyone here he was the next Wasim Akram.

Not everyone.

That crowd is also thinning in numbers by each passing month.

 

[Abdullah719]

Not sure whether BPL speed-guns should be taken seriously.

 

[wrongun]

I don't think that speed is beyond Amir at all. he was 150k when he first toured Australia.

He has often been above 140k in tests.

He was playing injured recently in the UAE tests, on flat pitches in baking heat, where he has to bowl 20+ overs a day.

I think he can still hit 145k in a spell he knows will only be 3 overs and not session after session.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Not sure whether BPL speed-guns should be taken seriously.

Not really a big deal for Amir. He cranks it up when he wants to but he will only consistently run in hard when he's challenged. The only time we've seen him bowl around 145 consistently was in Australia last tour.

 

[shebimalik]

Not really a big deal for Amir. He cranks it up when he wants to but he will only consistently run in hard when he's challenged. The only time we've seen him bowl around 145 consistently was in Australia last tour.

In his recent interview he said he has started training regularly to imprive his fitness.

 

[HuzaifaE]

He's easily capable of 145-147KPH for a spell, as he often does in T20s and ODIs, i.e Dhaka vs India, Australia tour, CL final, but he's right to hold himself back to prevent injury on barren wastelands in the UAE where we need to bowl for 120+overs per innings with 4 bowlers. Call it whatever you want, but jacking up the pace, unless you're going for a short reverse swing burst, is not worth the risk in UAE tests.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

He won't go over 135-137 in UAE or wherever the ball isn't swinging.

 

[Madplayer]

View attachment 77218

Not sure whether BPL speed-guns should be taken seriously.

He is capable of bowling 150 plus ocassionally. He has done it in the past.

The only issue is, he sometimes chooses not to put in any effort just because the match isnt a high profile one.

 

[Abdullah719]

He is capable of bowling 150 plus ocassionally. He has done it in the past.

The only issue is, he sometimes chooses not to put in any effort just because the match isnt a high profile one.

I know he's capable. My point was more about BPL speed guns; I remember people saying last year they were deceptive.

 

[AAli98]

He is capable of bowling 150 plus ocassionally. He has done it in the past.

The only issue is, he sometimes chooses not to put in any effort just because the match isnt a high profile one.

This is why you should never let cheats back in your he game... his gone on record saying he likes to perform only against ind & aus (more $$$$) cant be asked to perform against Lanka & windies.
Give his place to a up & coming hungry fast bowler.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

In his recent interview he said he has started training regularly to imprive his fitness.

Link?

Also, it's not about his conditioning or strength. It's marginal errors in his action that are restricting him from regaining that 150k+ pace. He needs specific work with biomechanists and specialized fast bowling coaches.

Azhar said he's gonna take the bowlers to a biomechanist soon to fine-tune their actions. So I'm interested in what that yields.