Mohammad Nawaz's non-existent batting

[Hawkeye]

He's being played as an "allrounder" in the Test team, to give us some decent scoring ability at the end.

However, our pure tailenders like Sohail Khan, Yasir, Zulfiqar have shown more substance and ability to bat than Nawaz.

He's been unconvincing since the PSL, yet Inzi thinks he's an allrounder.

Are you convinced? Is Imad a better option if you really do want to play an allrounder in the UAE?

 

[Markhor]

Not convinced he is a Test class batsman.

 

[shah_1]

Did well today

 

[Slog]

Problem is Imad isn't a test class bowler

So yeah you have to make a choice

And I guess I have more faith in our batting to put up big scores in UAE than our bowlers easily taking all wickets on pitches which are sometimes very flat

 

[Moiza]

Is he a test class batsman/bowler yet? Definitely no

Could he potentially be a test class player? Yes he can be.

Do we have other options for an all rounder? No

Is he a better test bowler than imad? Yes

Is the moon made out of cheese? Maybe.

 

[Haroon786]

25 (71) isn't bad, not sure how old [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] is but the fact that he/she makes threads after a couple of matches a player appears in suggests she's/he's new to Test Cricket and is most likely a teen who needs to watch some Cricket before passing judgement.

 

[angrypathan]

25 (71) isn't bad, not sure how old [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] is but the fact that he/she makes threads after a couple of matches a player appears in suggests she's/he's new to Test Cricket and is most likely a teen who needs to watch some Cricket before passing judgement.

Stop insulting the intelligence of teenagers

 

[Khan12]

Your hate for nawaz is very apparent. You look for any reason to bash him. So no surprises.

 

[shaz619]

25 (71) isn't bad, not sure how old [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] is but the fact that he/she makes threads after a couple of matches a player appears in suggests she's/he's new to Test Cricket and is most likely a teen who needs to watch some Cricket before passing judgement.

It's hawks gimmick

It was a decent knock, spent quality time in the middle and was involved in that crucuial partnership with Sarfraz which took us past 400. He will improve further if we make an investment in him and allow him to evolve at the Test level.

 

[Sherlock]

Sohail Khan did more and showed more intent in his little cameo, than what Nawaz did wasting 71 deliveries.

 

[Hawkeye]

25 (71) isn't bad, not sure how old [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] is but the fact that he/she makes threads after a couple of matches a player appears in suggests she's/he's new to Test Cricket and is most likely a teen who needs to watch some Cricket before passing judgement.

It's pretty obvious I hurt a nerve somewhere, but I can't be held responsible for that.

You keyboard-warrioring on an anonymous internet forum, without any logical discussion doesn't add anything to a proper thread.

 

[Hawkeye]

It's odd how sometimes fans of a certain player can't think beyond their liking for a player.

We're supposed to have batting till number 8 in this match - Nawaz is there to score some decent runs as an allrounder, not contribute what a tailender would.

This should've been a 500 score had we done half decent at the end. Amir and Wahab are a lot better and would've certainly scored.

 

[Haroon786]

It's pretty obvious I hurt a nerve somewhere, but I can't be held responsible for that.

You keyboard-warrioring on an anonymous internet forum, without any logical discussion doesn't add anything to a proper thread.

Why would I feel hurt about a player that I don't want in the team ?

It was an honest suggestion, I'm sorry if it offended you.

 

[Haroon786]

It's hawks gimmick

It was a decent knock, spent quality time in the middle and was involved in that crucuial partnership with Sarfraz which took us past 400. He will improve further if we make an investment in him and allow him to evolve at the Test level.

Can't judge after 2 innings.

What's next ? Commenting on how pathetic a player looks while he's still batting lol ?

 

[Khan12]

It's odd how sometimes fans of a certain player can't think beyond their liking for a player.

We're supposed to have batting till number 8 in this match - Nawaz is there to score some decent runs as an allrounder, not contribute what a tailender would.

This should've been a 500 score had we done half decent at the end. Amir and Wahab are a lot better and would've certainly scored.

Judging a player after 2 innings. Excellent.

 

[Haroon786]

Stop insulting the intelligence of teenagers

I'm a teen myself, so it's a bit like if you live in Pakistan then PPers let you discuss Pakistani issues if not then you're not allowed.

Anyway, Saeed Anwar's first 3-4 inning in International Cricket were all ducks, in this era I don't think he would've got another look in given how if one player performs for a single innings we give him a 10 match run.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Did Alright today , dont know what kind of intent was expected from him. He defended well and played a few good shots. I don't have much expectations from him but give a guy some time.

 

[Hawkeye]

Judging a player after 2 innings. Excellent.

I've been watching since the PSL. You just started watching him, your fault.

 

[Hawkeye]

Can't judge after 2 innings.

What's next ? Commenting on how pathetic a player looks while he's still batting lol ?

Ignorance is bliss. He's played several international cricket matches so far, was woeful in the PSL, and we have seen enough of him to know he isn't a good enough bat.

But, you might have started watching him just now so can't blame you. Only makes you look like an ignorant when you haven't seen him, yet post about a player.

 

[London_Lahori]

Internet is full of knee jerk reactions and needing to have an opinion on someone after a few games.

 

[90MPH]

It looked like a nervy innings, hence a lot of defensive shots.

However it's his 2nd Test innings so it's a bit early to make such judgements. He scored 25 so hopefully it's a catylist for him to keep improving.

 

[Khan12]

I've been watching since the PSL. You just started watching him, your fault.

I have watched him bat since his u19 days not my fault you started to watch him from PSL. One thing I will tell is that he is hard working and will definitely improve. The way you are saying is that if he is a finished product.

No one started scoring runs from day one or looked a world class from day one. I recommend you stop criticising every player you don't like and defend players to death the ones you like you Misbah.

 

[Fahdi]

Now that we have a significant sample size of 2 innings I think we can form a good opinion about his competency with the bat....

On a more serious note I think he can be a 25-30 averaging batsman but not much better than that. If we are to play with 3 spinners than I'd prefer two of them be All-rounders. So there is certainly a case for Imad playing in place of Babar especially given how he adds a bit of variety as well to the spin department. Gohar can be another option as well. So
Imad,Nawaz,Yasir
Imad,Gohar,Yasir
Nawaz, Gohar, Yasir

This combination strengthens the batting without compromising the bowling too much.

 

[moghul]

Looks like a bits n piece cricketer, could be useful in limited over cricket but certainly not a test cricketer and never will be.

 

[Hamza_]

I think his batting is alright. Its his bowling where he needs to put in some effort. Since he is an all rounder he should be able to get around 2 wickets each game. He is good enough player to stick on the crease while batting. Reminds me like spin version of Chris Woakes

 

[Hamza_]

Now that we have a significant sample size of 2 innings I think we can form a good opinion about his competency with the bat....

On a more serious note I think he can be a 25-30 averaging batsman but not much better than that. If we are to play with 3 spinners than I'd prefer two of them be All-rounders. So there is certainly a case for Imad playing in place of Babar especially given how he adds a bit of variety as well to the spin department. Gohar can be another option as well. So
Imad,Nawaz,Yasir
Imad,Gohar,Yasir
Nawaz, Gohar, Yasir

This combination strengthens the batting without compromising the bowling too much.

I dont think 25-30 Average all rounder is what we require in Tests. It will weaken our batting alot. We had Sarfraz at #7 who is now at #6

 

[Fahdi]

I dont think 25-30 Average all rounder is what we require in Tests. It will weaken our batting alot. We had Sarfraz at #7 who is now at #6

He may do better than that it's up to him but the point is we can play two all-rounders in(any two of Nawaz,Gohar and Imad). That way we will have genuine all-rounders at 7 and 8.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

He's being played as an "allrounder" in the Test team, to give us some decent scoring ability at the end.

However, our pure tailenders like Sohail Khan, Yasir, Zulfiqar have shown more substance and ability to bat than Nawaz.

He's been unconvincing since the PSL, yet Inzi thinks he's an allrounder.

Are you convinced? Is Imad a better option if you really do want to play an allrounder in the UAE?

Sohail Khan is a Pure Tailender ?

Are you sure ?


Sohail Khan scored 140* and 82 in Semifinal and Final of QEA grade 2 last year.

Against whom he scored ? Mohammad Asif, Mohammad Abass, Abdur Rehmab, Zia ul Haq, Majid Ali & Zulfiqar Babar

He was the only reason Sialkot aren't playing QEA trophy this year.

 

[Hawkeye]

Sohail Khan is a Pure Tailender ?

Are you sure ?


Sohail Khan scored 140* and 82 in Semifinal and Final of QEA grade 2 last year.

Against whom he scored ? Mohammad Asif, Mohammad Abass, Abdur Rehmab, Zia ul Haq, Majid Ali & Zulfiqar Babar

He was the only reason Sialkot aren't playing QEA trophy this year.

I mean he's playing as one.

However his batting is excellent for q tailender. Heck his batting is more assured than our allrounder so I fully respect that.

 

[Archer]

We haven't seen enough of him in test cricket. We cannot judge him based upon his performances in ODI's or just the innings today. Every player which has potential should be given a test cap and should not be dropped for a few matches, unless we are certain that they have not lived up to their potential. I say give Nawaz a run in the next match along with the matches in New Zealand. 5 tests will be more than enough to prove his potential and justify selection for the Australian tour. At the moment, I believe that he is better than Zulfiqar as a bowler, he just needs to adjust his line and length, which he will learn over the course of time

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I mean he's playing as one.

However his batting is excellent for q tailender. Heck his batting is more assured than our allrounder so I fully respect that.

Until 2015 Nawaz was a Pure Batsman and an Ocassional Partime Bowler. Even in Domestic T20's he played for Rawalpindi he used to hardly bowl.


From there on his focus shifted to bowling as with his batting with a Fc Average under 35 he was going nowhere and he became an Allrounder. Sadly his batting regressed and his bowling improved.

 

[Junaids]

We all know that Nawaz is not a batting all-rounder, he's a bowling one.

It's been an underwhelming start, but Mickey Arthur insists upon having a fifth bowler who can bat, and the only options are:

Aamer Yamin
Amad Butt (more like a fourth bowler who can bat a bit)
Hammad Azam
Mohammad Hafeez (banned from bowling and 36)
Hasan Ali (more like a third bowler who can bat a bit)
Zafar Gohar
Mohammad Nawaz

It seems reasonable that Nawaz is being given a go.

 

[Boom boom legend]

I also agree that he is not a good enough batsman. Its not based on these 2 innings either. Ever since he has come into international cricket his batting has not been upto the mark. This started in the England series and has continued in the UAE.

I seriously dont remember any good knock he has played since being introduced to international cricket unless someone can remind me of one.

Those that claim they have seen enough of him and that he can bat need to reconsider their opinion. For a guy that is supposedly a batting all rounder his average of 32 in first class and list A does not exactly set the world alight. Not to mention international cricket is a different kettle of fish and the opposition will be stronger.

Regarding his knock today, people saying his 25(71) is a good score need to realise it would be if he was a tailender. Not when he's supposed to be an all rounder. Even Yasir and Sohail got out in twenties so it shows how good his knock was.

 

[Mamoon]

Give him time. He is good enough.

 

[Slog]

I dont think 25-30 Average all rounder is what we require in Tests. It will weaken our batting alot. We had Sarfraz at #7 who is now at #6

No that's enough

We need a 25-30 average batsman and a 30-33 average bowler for tests who has a good economy rate

 

[Mamoon]

I think people fail to realize that Nawaz is a massive upgrade on Babar. As a bowler, he is on par with a past-it Babar and much better with the bat, so it is a win-win situation.

 

[Haroon786]

Ignorance is bliss. He's played several international cricket matches so far, was woeful in the PSL, and we have seen enough of him to know he isn't a good enough bat.

But, you might have started watching him just now so can't blame you. Only makes you look like an ignorant when you haven't seen him, yet post about a player.

That's just fantastic analysis, I mean obviously lack of performance in the PSL and some LOIs creaky suggest that he won't cut it at Test level.

Obviously fallacious logic.

I watched him in the ODIs Vs England, he's not a great hitter but he can rotate strike and is good at getting doubles which is fine as long as he doesn't expose the tail too much and develops his stroke play as he progresses.

Also it's good to debate with some logic, would be a nice change.

 

[reversehook]

so far he batted twice, first innings he played in last game got jaffa of a delivery and debut butterflies got the better of him. This innings, he was alright and had a decent outing with the bat.

Bhai, thora time do bachay ko, sorry woh jacques kallis nahin nikla apni pehli do innings mein, lekin hum koshish karain gey...

 

[Junaids]

Just think what output you need in which position, if Sarfraz bats at 6 in Tests.

Number 7: batting average 35, 3 wickets per Test at an average of 35.
Number 8: batting average 30, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 32.
Number 9: batting average 25, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 30.
Number 10: batting average 20, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 28.
Number 11: batting average 10, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 25.

 

[srh]

Not convinced he is a Test class batsman.

not convinced he is a test class player.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Its his first test. Give him a break.

 

[naseem]

Give him some time .....give him a year in test and then judge.....he will come good

 

[aloo paratha]

I never really thought he was a great bat ever. Didn't do too well in the PSL, scored 1 50 in 6 or so games against Ireland and England, only averages 33 in FC. I think he is only worth keeping in the side at #8, not #6. For #6 we need a solid bat.

Anyways lets see how Nawaz does in his next 3 innings.

 

[aloo paratha]

I think people fail to realize that Nawaz is a massive upgrade on Babar. As a bowler, he is on par with a past-it Babar and much better with the bat, so it is a win-win situation.

Exactly, but if we want to see him as a replacement for Babar, he should be playing at #8, for #6 we should get Yamin in.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

As expected ridiculous comments by PPers

The guy has just played two innings and he is already judged. Absolutely pathetic.

This is the same guy who as a batting allrounder took 4 key wickets bowling 25 overs in the match. This guy can only get better if persisted with. We don't need an extra spinner in Babar with Nawaz there. Nawaz gives us an extra spinner and a bat. Trust Mickey as he knows what he is trying to achieve.

 

[msb314]

25 (71) isn't bad, not sure how old [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] is but the fact that he/she makes threads after a couple of matches a player appears in suggests she's/he's new to Test Cricket and is most likely a teen who needs to watch some Cricket before passing judgement.

It's pretty obvious I hurt a nerve somewhere, but I can't be held responsible for that.

You keyboard-warrioring on an anonymous internet forum, without any logical discussion doesn't add anything to a proper thread.

GUys - please don't fight... :

 

[msb314]

On topic - it is too early to say so I would give him more time.

Whilst Imad is a more classical batsman and a darter - Nawaz is more of an attacking, hard hitting batsman who will show his true game when the time comes. As a test bowler - Nawaz is better.

 

[Deception]

25 (71) isn't bad, not sure how old [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] is but the fact that he/she makes threads after a couple of matches a player appears in suggests she's/he's new to Test Cricket and is most likely a teen who needs to watch some Cricket before passing judgement.

Nailed it bro !
Nawaz has been playing u19,first class, list A all these years and now you have vague judgements from guys like Hawkeye.

 

[AlphaFighter]

I dont think he did a bad job. He was circumspect and careful early on in his innings which was understandable given that he got out for a duck on debut. But he started opening up later on. He was disciplined. His dismissal i think was a touch unlucky, the ball hit the bat and then rolled back on to the stumps.

Make no mistake the guy can bat, he has scored a 50 already against Ireland and it was a quick fire 50. His batting style reminds me of Irfan Pathan.

 

[Obstructing_the_field]

dont think he is good test level bowler or batsmen so def not a test level all rounder.. he is kind of opposite of Moen Ali... he is a better bowler than moen but an inferior batsmen to mo... he has potential but needs to work real hard. ... would i have him in the team now? no.

 

[Haroon786]

GUys - please don't fight... :

Well as they say the truth does hurt.

 

[Haroon786]

Nailed it bro !
Nawaz has been playing u19,first class, list A all these years and now you have vague judgements from guys like Hawkeye.

Thanks.

 

[Saj]

Early days to write him off as a batsman, given it's only his first Test and he's only batted 7 times in ODIs mainly in the latter overs.

 

[Hawkeye]

Just think what output you need in which position, if Sarfraz bats at 6 in Tests.

Number 7: batting average 35, 3 wickets per Test at an average of 35.
Number 8: batting average 30, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 32.
Number 9: batting average 25, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 30.
Number 10: batting average 20, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 28.
Number 11: batting average 10, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 25.

I never really thought he was a great bat ever. Didn't do too well in the PSL, scored 1 50 in 6 or so games against Ireland and England, only averages 33 in FC. I think he is only worth keeping in the side at #8, not #6. For #6 we need a solid bat.

Anyways lets see how Nawaz does in his next 3 innings.

The issue is, with his batting, he cannot be expected to average 30+. That too after tough tours.

If we play all our cricket in the UAE, no overseas tours, he *might* just touch that in future. But that too looks difficult the way he's been playing international cricket.

 

[Square Drive]

Another poor thread by OP. Seems to have a knack of starting such threads.

This same Nawaz scored 188* in LA and definitely has the ability.

He will come good, if people don't jump the gun and give him some time.

 

[Zaz]

Lets give him a chance and more than a couple of test innings before we cast him as useless

 

[FreePalestine]

I think people fail to realize that Nawaz is a massive upgrade on Babar. As a bowler, he is on par with a past-it Babar and much better with the bat, so it is a win-win situation.

I agree, I prefer him to Babar. He is certainly a useful addition playing at 7 in the UAE. Play him in Oz and NZ? I don't know...

tbh - if Imad can bat more solidly at seven, I would take him as a relief/second spinner abroad over Nawaz. But that is a big if!

 

[msb314]

Problem is Imad isn't a test class bowler

So yeah you have to make a choice

And I guess I have more faith in our batting to put up big scores in UAE than our bowlers easily taking all wickets on pitches which are sometimes very flat

In the UAE - he would be good enough IMO.

 

[kingusama92]

You defined him after 2 innings?

Seriously?

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Just think what output you need in which position, if Sarfraz bats at 6 in Tests.

Number 7: batting average 35, 3 wickets per Test at an average of 35.
Number 8: batting average 30, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 32.
Number 9: batting average 25, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 30.
Number 10: batting average 20, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 28.
Number 11: batting average 10, 4 wickets per Test at an average of 25.

When 8, 9, and 10 batsmen will be having batting averages of 30, 25, and 20; rest assured none of the bowlers will end up having bowling averages less than 30.

The sum total score of such a cricketing team having these batsmen will mean that the average score 90% of the times will be more or less greater than 350 eliminating the mathematical possibility.

 

[yasir]

I think people fail to realize that Nawaz is a massive upgrade on Babar. As a bowler, he is on par with a past-it Babar and much better with the bat, so it is a win-win situation.

Question is Asghar/Zafar are better bowler than him or not? - In Asia, you really don't need three spinners, but two must be full time. Nawaz is not a full time spinner, I don't think he is better than either Asghar/Zafar, he does not operate like a specialist spinner, that is a problem. Jadeja is successful in India, because they are bowling on unusually rank turners from last 2/3 years, where as Pakistan plays no much flatter wickets, you need a better quality spinner than allrounder as second spinner. Plan has to be the two best spinners should play as main spinners in Asia, half spinner is not going to work in Asia, like in past we never relied on Hafeez or Malik in test for work load, Nawaz will be in same category.

Problem is when you play in Asia, two full time spinners are more than enough. When you play in west, you really need a seaming allrounder. Developing a spin allrounder is really not that fruitful. You also have to keep in mind, on day 4/5 playing spin is lot more tricker for half batsmen, playing four bowlers and a full time batsmen is more fruitfull than 4 bowlers and one allrounder. Pakistan has been successful in Asia, because Asad and Sarfraz bail out many times and now Yasir, Amir, Wahab, Sohail can chip in 20/30 (atleast in Asia 1/2 can have that output almost in every match).... Bottom line spin alrounder is really not long term investment.

Also, keep in mind playing spin in Asia is a full time job, there is a reason western bowlers and allrounders with 20-25 avg become dud against spin in Asia. Investment in Asad, paid off for Pakistan, imagine they had invested in an allrounder, same is true for Babar, he can be much more useful in next two years(we play 70% of tests in Asia anyway).

I am not convinced five bowlers are needed in Asia. The reason they are needed in west, because fast bowlers cannot bowl 60-70 overs a match in every match or series, where as spinners can bowl that many overs in every match in Asia. Historically Pakistan has very rarely played with 3 spinners, you can could those test on fingers out of 400, there is a reason for that.

Also, which ever youngster we develop as second spinner need lot of work on the prime job, aka bowling. He has to focus a lot on bowling for first 2/3 series not to mention in FC as well. I still think Asghar and Zafar have better mindset of a bowler than Nawaz. Those two bowl lot more overs and work as primary spinners in FC, where as Nawaz is not at that level, that makes a huge difference.

 

[Mamoon]

Question is Asghar/Zafar are better bowler than him or not? - In Asia, you really don't need three spinners, but two must be full time. Nawaz is not a full time spinner, I don't think he is better than either Asghar/Zafar, he does not operate like a specialist spinner, that is a problem. Jadeja is successful in India, because they are bowling on unusually rank turners from last 2/3 years, where as Pakistan plays no much flatter wickets, you need a better quality spinner than allrounder as second spinner. Plan has to be the two best spinners should play as main spinners in Asia, half spinner is not going to work in Asia, like in past we never relied on Hafeez or Malik in test for work load, Nawaz will be in same category.

Problem is when you play in Asia, two full time spinners are more than enough. When you play in west, you really need a seaming allrounder. Developing a spin allrounder is really not that fruitful. You also have to keep in mind, on day 4/5 playing spin is lot more tricker for half batsmen, playing four bowlers and a full time batsmen is more fruitfull than 4 bowlers and one allrounder. Pakistan has been successful in Asia, because Asad and Sarfraz bail out many times and now Yasir, Amir, Wahab, Sohail can chip in 20/30 (atleast in Asia 1/2 can have that output almost in every match).... Bottom line spin alrounder is really not long term investment.

Also, keep in mind playing spin in Asia is a full time job, there is a reason western bowlers and allrounders with 20-25 avg become dud against spin in Asia. Investment in Asad, paid off for Pakistan, imagine they had invested in an allrounder, same is true for Babar, he can be much more useful in next two years(we play 70% of tests in Asia anyway).

I am not convinced five bowlers are needed in Asia. The reason they are needed in west, because fast bowlers cannot bowl 60-70 overs a match in every match or series, where as spinners can bowl that many overs in every match in Asia. Historically Pakistan has very rarely played with 3 spinners, you can could those test on fingers out of 400, there is a reason for that.

Also, which ever youngster we develop as second spinner need lot of work on the prime job, aka bowling. He has to focus a lot on bowling for first 2/3 series not to mention in FC as well. I still think Asghar and Zafar have better mindset of a bowler than Nawaz. Those two bowl lot more overs and work as primary spinners in FC, where as Nawaz is not at that level, that makes a huge difference.

Asghar and Gohar might be better spinners than him. I don't think there is any harm in giving them a go, but I think Nawaz brings good balance to the team. He is a better bowler than most think at the moment and his batting is not shabby either.

I just want the selectors to move on from Zulfiqar. Doesn't matter if it is for Nawaz, Gohar or Asghar.

 

[sshakir411]

OP doesn't know much. He will come good.

 

[yasir]

Asghar and Gohar might be better spinners than him. I don't think there is any harm in giving them a go, but I think Nawaz brings good balance to the team. He is a better bowler than most think at the moment and his batting is not shabby either.

I just want the selectors to move on from Zulfiqar. Doesn't matter if it is for Nawaz, Gohar or Asghar.

Unfortunately Misbah is keeping Zulfi in the team, its appalling to see how Misbah treats Nawaz, not giving him over for innings and a half? - He was scared to give him over, for a reason, what if Nawaz starts getting wickets? - Misbah was right

Zulfi should have gone in early part of last season. Misbah does reverse age discrimination.

 

[Slog]

Unfortunately Misbah is keeping Zulfi in the team, its appalling to see how Misbah treats Nawaz, not giving him over for innings and a half? - He was scared to give him over, for a reason, what if Nawaz starts getting wickets? - Misbah was right

Zulfi should have gone in early part of last season. Misbah does reverse age discrimination.

Zulfi should have been retired after first test in Dubai last year against England

likhe how the heck can a spinner average 40+ in UAE

 

[Slog]

Question is Asghar/Zafar are better bowler than him or not? - In Asia, you really don't need three spinners, but two must be full time. Nawaz is not a full time spinner, I don't think he is better than either Asghar/Zafar, he does not operate like a specialist spinner, that is a problem. Jadeja is successful in India, because they are bowling on unusually rank turners from last 2/3 years, where as Pakistan plays no much flatter wickets, you need a better quality spinner than allrounder as second spinner. Plan has to be the two best spinners should play as main spinners in Asia, half spinner is not going to work in Asia, like in past we never relied on Hafeez or Malik in test for work load, Nawaz will be in same category.

Problem is when you play in Asia, two full time spinners are more than enough. When you play in west, you really need a seaming allrounder. Developing a spin allrounder is really not that fruitful. You also have to keep in mind, on day 4/5 playing spin is lot more tricker for half batsmen, playing four bowlers and a full time batsmen is more fruitfull than 4 bowlers and one allrounder. Pakistan has been successful in Asia, because Asad and Sarfraz bail out many times and now Yasir, Amir, Wahab, Sohail can chip in 20/30 (atleast in Asia 1/2 can have that output almost in every match).... Bottom line spin alrounder is really not long term investment.

Also, keep in mind playing spin in Asia is a full time job, there is a reason western bowlers and allrounders with 20-25 avg become dud against spin in Asia. Investment in Asad, paid off for Pakistan, imagine they had invested in an allrounder, same is true for Babar, he can be much more useful in next two years(we play 70% of tests in Asia anyway).

I am not convinced five bowlers are needed in Asia. The reason they are needed in west, because fast bowlers cannot bowl 60-70 overs a match in every match or series, where as spinners can bowl that many overs in every match in Asia. Historically Pakistan has very rarely played with 3 spinners, you can could those test on fingers out of 400, there is a reason for that.

Also, which ever youngster we develop as second spinner need lot of work on the prime job, aka bowling. He has to focus a lot on bowling for first 2/3 series not to mention in FC as well. I still think Asghar and Zafar have better mindset of a bowler than Nawaz. Those two bowl lot more overs and work as primary spinners in FC, where as Nawaz is not at that level, that makes a huge difference.

Nawaz's bowling is good enough on its own to be competing with Asghar and Gohar.

even if we just pick him as a spinner (and disregard all round ability) he has enoguh to atleast compete

 

[yasir]

Asghar and Gohar might be better spinners than him. I don't think there is any harm in giving them a go, but I think Nawaz brings good balance to the team. He is a better bowler than most think at the moment and his batting is not shabby either.

I just want the selectors to move on from Zulfiqar. Doesn't matter if it is for Nawaz, Gohar or Asghar.

On the second point, Test batting or bowling is really hard work. First 4/5 years you have to focus on one of them, Nawaz batting against spin is pretty ordinary, he needs lot of work. Western teams invest in allrounders because you need one in test in those conditions, plus 4 fast bowlers are pretty much must to share the workload. In Asia you are better off, with 4 solid bowlers and 6 specialist batsmen. Imran and Wasim were first world class fast bowler, their batting was secondary, same can be said about Kallis, who was SA's no 1 batsman for all his Career. You don't get those kind of players in every generation, you cannot manufacture them, specially in Asia.

 

[yasir]

Nawaz's bowling is good enough on its own to be competing with Asghar and Gohar.

even if we just pick him as a spinner (and disregard all round ability) he has enoguh to atleast compete

It maybe true, but their is little evidence of that, again in FC those two guys play as front line spinner. They both have better variety and control. Based on my limited experience watching them, Asghar has the most potential as specialist spinner in long format, but he has to be given couple of series, not like the way Pakistani usually handle youngsters.

Right now Nawaz may get a longer run in UAE, the reason I say 'may', because Misbah has little confidence in him, even when he is picking up wickets.

 

[Commander]

Is he a test class batsman/bowler yet? Definitely no

Could he potentially be a test class player? Yes he can be.

Do we have other options for an all rounder? No

Is he a better test bowler than imad? Yes

Is the moon made out of cheese? Maybe.

What about Zafar Gohar? Isn't he a good batsman as well?

 

[Hamza_]

What about Zafar Gohar? Isn't he a good batsman as well?

Nawaz is a much better Batsman.

 

[Pete Rose]

His batting looks ok to me. But remember he is being compared to the last guy who occupied this slot: Asad shafiq

 

[Markhor]

Joke of a batsman at Test level.

 

[moghul]

Not a test class, keep him to limited overs, if you have to.

 

[Boi]

What about Zafar Gohar? Isn't he a good batsman as well?

From what I've seen Zafar has as good or even better technique than Nawaz. His FC numbers dont justify the potential that he has.

 

[Rana]

I don't understand why Nawaz got the nod ahead of Imad in the first place

 

[waleed88]

His batting looks ok to me. But remember he is being compared to the last guy who occupied this slot: Asad shafiq

That would be Sarfaraz ahmed who batted at no.7
Your thoughts now? I would have to describe him as a hack pretending to be a batsman.. Mohammad Amir has more chance of succeeding as a no.7 than this guy

 

[Slog]

I don't understand why Nawaz got the nod ahead of Imad in the first place

Imad is not test class spinner

Though if we are playing 2 front line spinners and Nawaz is only going to bowl a few overs then night aswell go with Imad who is gonna be a superior batting option

 

[waleed88]

I would suggest a proper batsman who can bowl a bit playing at no.6-no.7 instead of this guy

 

[GudduBadmash]

25 (71) isn't bad, not sure how old [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] is but the fact that he/she makes threads after a couple of matches a player appears in suggests she's/he's new to Test Cricket and is most likely a teen who needs to watch some Cricket before passing judgement.

Everyone can express their opinions and counterpoints without sounding offensive or insulting, so there isn't any need for such type of posts.

Just because you don't agree with an opinion doesn't mean you have to berate it or the poster himself.

Everyone can express their opinions and counterpoints without sounding offensive or insulting, so there isn't any need for such type of posts.

 

[srh]

not convinced he is a test class player.

glad to be right