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Mohammad Rizwan fasting during tour of South Africa and Zimbabwe

Has Rizwan spoken to anyone about it? Has he complained? Has the Pakistan management complained?

Its not about who complains its about having a common courtesy of looking after your player. No one is telling him to stop following his religion. Its just during a game like this thats more demanding on your body its best to rest the player so he can do what he needs to do. Rizwan has been a great performer for Pakistan cricket if he ends up getting a serious injury here when he is not playing at his best than we will lose him for far more games.
 
Has Rizwan spoken to anyone about it? Has he complained? Has the Pakistan management complained?

So sorry MenInG bhai, but again it is not his decison to make and it does not matter whether he complains or not. Science tells us that you are going to put yourself at a huge risk of experiencing an injury when you play a sports without taking food or water. There are no ifs and buts about this as this has been proven scientifically that you are not going to be at your best physically and mentally if you go without food or water for the longer periods of time.

Pakistan mgmt is toothless and don't know how to play or run this game.
 
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Problem with all this fuss is that any mistake he makes will be seen as one due to him fasting

Very sad state of affairs.

Yes but then why do you become a superman and say fasting will not hamper my performance. I am sure you have done fasting so many times so have I. And we agree that it is a great test of Allah. You can't guarantee that you will not be tested by Allah during your fast. It is great test of character itself. Then you add extra test of performance as a professional that becomes quite hard for a human being. Islam is not as strict as we have made it to be. Sure fast but you can make up for these when you have another tough job and your performance whole nation relies upon.

Fasting is a personal choice. There is no doubt about that. But when you are fasting when you are fighting for the pride of your nation then it is not a personal choice. You have to make sure you can give your 100 percent like you would normally do. You have to guarantee that fasting will not affect your game. And I am sorry no human being can do that.

Why in Pakistan office timings is changed in Ramazan and most of the bosses in charge do not put extra burden on people fasting? Because they know he is already going through a great test by God. But in professional sports like this I do not think they will change timings to suite your fasting or show any mercy because you are fasting.
 
How about for the people that say fasting actually helps their mental conditioning, and makes them think clearer, I no my own thought process is a lot less jumbled when I fast. No mention of the positives or are we only looking for negatives to criticise our players with.

Looks like babar could do with fasting since Ramadan started his performances have gone down hill. You can look at this both ways.
 
If Rizwan, or any other players, decides to not play cricket in the month of Ramzan, it is 100% understandable. There are people for whom religion takes precedence over everything else and that is completely fine. However, in such a case, PCB is also well within its right to hold back the salary as it cannot and should not pay non-working employees.

Why I think fasting while playing professional competitive sport is not the right decision:

1) If you believe in science, there is no way you can deny that not eating and drinking for ~12-15 straight hours has an adverse effect on your energy and concentration level. So, no matter how fit you are, you cannot give your optimal level of performance.

2) If you cannot give 100% to your job but are getting 100% of your salary, you are cheating your employer.

3) Islam has given fasting dispensation to those who have strenuous jobs. There is no need to make religion so tough on yourself when the religion itself gives you the flexibility.
 
How about for the people that say fasting actually helps their mental conditioning, and makes them think clearer, I no my own thought process is a lot less jumbled when I fast. No mention of the positives or are we only looking for negatives to criticise our players with.

Looks like babar could do with fasting since Ramadan started his performances have gone down hill. You can look at this both ways.

You are talking about the mental aspect of the game not the physical aspect of the game. Cricket is such a sport where you not only need to be mentally strong your body is supposed to react to the deliveries pitched at you as well. So in this case your argument has no merit to what we are trying to discuss here.
 
Phew! Even after breaking the fast I can barely play with my daughter and I'm a fitness freak who is a regular Gym goer since years doing weight training, Yoga, Cardio everything during normal days but during Ramzan, just not possible for me!

Again, lots and lots of respect for Rizwan and others who fast while playing! Legends. Personal choice, I don't see any problem with this.
 
I wonder what people crying about players fasting in cricket think about the likes of Paul Pogba and Wesley Fofana fasting in football games - a sport which is much more physically demanding.
 
Are those who don’t fast and engage in haram activities annoyed by Rizwan’s fasting ? :yk2
 
I wonder what people crying about players fasting in cricket think about the likes of Paul Pogba and Wesley Fofana fasting in football games - a sport which is much more physically demanding.

I guess they'd think the same as they think of Rizwan's fasting.
 
From next year Pak cricketers should think about keeping this info to themselves. The disrespect towards Rizwan for wishing to prioritise and practice his faith alongside his profession has been ridiculous. If Rizwan was a British-Muslim playing for England we'd be going nuts if this was the reaction he faced from some of the fans.

It's better that Pakistan fans aren't privy to this information in the first place. Leave it between the fasting player and Allah.

Pakistan cricketers should ALWAYS keep anything associated with religion to themselves. Religion is a personal matter and there is no reason to make any of your personal choices around it public.

Also, I have not seen a single person disrespecting Rizwan and his choice to fast. There is a difference of opinion, yes, but certainly no disrespect.
 
Pakistan cricketers should ALWAYS keep anything associated with religion to themselves. Religion is a personal matter and there is no reason to make any of your personal choices around it public.

Also, I have not seen a single person disrespecting Rizwan and his choice to fast. There is a difference of opinion, yes, but certainly no disrespect.

Thank you, Snowflake. I was just about to reply and say the same. I love Rizwan like he is my family member, but what is wrong is wrong and none of us is disrespecting Rizwan or how he chooses to follow his religion.

Sorry guys, in my posts above I meant to say the following

*food and water

Just bear with my english as I might go on to write more on this topic. Thanks
 
Problem with all this fuss is that any mistake he makes will be seen as one due to him fasting

Very sad state of affairs.

All the insecure western inferiority complex peeps always trying to push their opinions on these posts. I try not to bother reading what people say now on these type of posts because it’s just disappointing seeing how some people get so antagonised seeing a brother practice his faith during a cricket game.
 
You are talking about the mental aspect of the game not the physical aspect of the game. Cricket is such a sport where you not only need to be mentally strong your body is supposed to react to the deliveries pitched at you as well. So in this case your argument has no merit to what we are trying to discuss here.

The physical aspect which is probably half as gruelling as what footballers go through, yet I don’t see their clubs complaining, they have a lot more to lose then Pakistan and I’m sure they pay more towards their medical science teams, if it was an issue they would flag it. Mental aspect Plays just as big part in professional sport like you said it so why wouldn’t it be part of the discussion.
 
The physical aspect which is probably half as gruelling as what footballers go through, yet I don’t see their clubs complaining, they have a lot more to lose then Pakistan and I’m sure they pay more towards their medical science teams, if it was an issue they would flag it. Mental aspect Plays just as big part in professional sport like you said it so why wouldn’t it be part of the discussion.

Rather you're playing football or cricket fact is the player that's playing is incapable of playing at there very best due to limitations they got without eating nor drinking. Its true the mental state of the game is important however its not gonna prevent you from getting injury that could potentially end your playing days. When you're in a weakened state your body feels the blows more.
 
As much as I like and respect Rizwan, this is not right. I don't care if football players or Hasim Amla fasts when they play during Ramazan because quite frankly I don't care how well they do.

On the other hand, Rizwan is playing test cricket which is very demanding physically and mentally. Although I didn't watch the match, so I cannot comment on his performance. However, it's simply not logical to say he is not being impacted. On top of that, there is an injury risk which Pakistan cannot afford with its premier player.

Though I fully support his right to fast during Ramazan, I cannot support his decision to fast on game days. If he refuses to fast, he should at the very least be rested.
 
Why do some people have an issue with everything? If Rizwan and the team management are ok with him fasting then why do you guys care?

Plenty of athletes including soccer and basketball players fast. Resting or dropping Rizwan just cause he is fasting would be nonsensical and petty especially since his performance has not dropped at all.


Anyways most of this discussion is pointless because Rizwan plays for a Islamic country and there is no way he would be reprimanded or even forcefully “rested” for fasting and following his religion.
 
Kyrie Irving, Enes Kanter and Hakim Ziyech are some of the athletes around the world that are fasting and still taking part in physical sports like Soccer and Basketball.

It’s fine how their clubs, coaches and world class nutritionists have no issues with them fasting but some random internet posters here think it’s the end of the world to fast and play.
 
Bottom line is, it's a personal choice, between him and his Allah - he places faith above everything else, seemingly - cricket is not going to stop him from fulfilling his obligations.

He scored 45 yesterday and has been in excellent LOI form, bat and gloves - all whilst fasting - I don't see the problem.
 
A drop catch and a lazy stumping attempt...for those who were saying it didn't affect his keeping.
 
Both times it was Sajid who was robbed off his first ever international wicket.
 
Rather you're playing football or cricket fact is the player that's playing is incapable of playing at there very best due to limitations they got without eating nor drinking. Its true the mental state of the game is important however its not gonna prevent you from getting injury that could potentially end your playing days. When you're in a weakened state your body feels the blows more.

Is it really a fact though or is it just your opinion. Like I mentioned many footballers , basketball players and other athletes are fasting. These sports invest a lot more in support teams, nutritionists , sports scientists etc. These teams also have a lot more to lose than Pakistan during competition, a test match against Zimbabwe is not the equivalent of say a Leicester vs Crystal Palace , there’s a lot more money and competition at stake in the football. Yet these professionals have no issue when a player from their team fasts, in fact I’ve seen lots of encouragement from other sports fans and peers, especially in football.

That’s why I find it so laughable when an armchair cricket fan all of a sudden becomes an expert in physical and mental conditioning. The professionals don’t have an issue with it but someone who’s never played the game at the highest level sees a problem with it. :))
 
I feel sorry for Sajid Khan. The drop catch by fasting-Rizwan would have been tolerable if it was of some established bowler. But this guy is a debutant and was trying to cement his place in the team. He is already competing with few more spinners for the same spot, and on paper selectors will see zero wicket in one match.
 
What if he refuses to rest? Not his decison to make as he is just a player and not bigger than his team.

Fasting increases mental strength? Not possible scientifically speaking.

Exactly if the mananagment ain't willing to rest him then he should continue playing like he currently is.thiers many article that state it increases mental strength.
 
I agree with people who are saying he should be rested if he wants to fast. Test cricket is far more demanding on the body than Twenty20. No player should have to play when he can’t perform at his very best. A score of 45 is not good enough in Test cricket.

Is cricket more demanding than football ?
 
Fasting while playing test or odi cricket and that to in zimbabwe is too extreme.

Performance does get affected, running between the wickes and the proactivness.
Plusz there will always be an injury risk or cramping issue due to no fluids being consumed.

Pcb invest on players, so they do have a right to intervene. But if anyone does intervene anyone of the players could leak it to media and have that person get bashed.

In t20, i guess its fine to some extent, but if you are doing hard training or playing a format that requires more than ,8 hours of your time playing in the sub, than you are harming yourself.

Even if he scores a 100 like this, it will take a toll on his body.
 
Exactly if the mananagment ain't willing to rest him then he should continue playing like he currently is.thiers many article that state it increases mental strength.

Can you please share the links of those articles that are talking about how fasting can increase mental strength and help you grow as a cricketer?
 
Exactly if the mananagment ain't willing to rest him then he should continue playing like he currently is.thiers many article that state it increases mental strength.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2465333/

Here it shows that performance declined significantly in football (soccer) players that were fasting. I think people can play while fasting, but it should be expected that it could affect performance. From a religious perspective, fasting is done for devotion and sympathising with the poor, not for health benefits. I think Muslims should stop trying to suggest it is really good for you, as that isn't the reason why it's prescribed, if you take the Quran as true.
 
Is it really a fact though or is it just your opinion. Like I mentioned many footballers , basketball players and other athletes are fasting. These sports invest a lot more in support teams, nutritionists , sports scientists etc. These teams also have a lot more to lose than Pakistan during competition, a test match against Zimbabwe is not the equivalent of say a Leicester vs Crystal Palace , there’s a lot more money and competition at stake in the football. Yet these professionals have no issue when a player from their team fasts, in fact I’ve seen lots of encouragement from other sports fans and peers, especially in football.

That’s why I find it so laughable when an armchair cricket fan all of a sudden becomes an expert in physical and mental conditioning. The professionals don’t have an issue with it but someone who’s never played the game at the highest level sees a problem with it. :))

It is a fact not just opinion. Players can play while fasting true but its not mandatory. Its an option that can be avoided.
 
Is cricket more demanding than football ?

Its not about what's more demanding its about putting yourself in the best situation to win. Rizwan is not at his the best so he is putting needless pressure on himself to perform.
 
Difficult to say if the dropped catch and missed stumping was down to fasting, or was it down to a loss of concentration, or maybe just a mistake which all players make.
 
A drop catch and a lazy stumping attempt...for those who were saying it didn't affect his keeping.

Going by this logic, Kamran Akmal likely fasted in every game he ever played lol.

Keepers drop catches it happens, Rizwan is human and allowed to make mistakes.
 
What a pointless, good for nothing series. A test match getting wrapped up in 3 days. Challo ji.

Should have allowed players to observe Ramadhan without any disturbance than getting them to participate in such useless games. PCB's greed knows no bounds.
 
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Its not about what's more demanding its about putting yourself in the best situation to win. Rizwan is not at his the best so he is putting needless pressure on himself to perform.

Who says he's not at his best you ? Me ? The management ?

Of course he wasn't at his best after the two big scores in the t20s he should have got 150 only due to fasting hence why he couldn't reach more runs.
 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2465333/

Here it shows that performance declined significantly in football (soccer) players that were fasting. I think people can play while fasting, but it should be expected that it could affect performance. From a religious perspective, fasting is done for devotion and sympathising with the poor, not for health benefits. I think Muslims should stop trying to suggest it is really good for you, as that isn't the reason why it's prescribed, if you take the Quran as true.
Definitely done as a religious perspective but thier are benefits to health.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/327398?c=693826381033#health-benefits
 
Two things

1-Islam is the religion for all seasons and all occasions and there is clear cut option to skip fasting when you're away from home, travelling and make it up later.

2-Rizwan is not superman , who can play with same intensity when dehydrated . He has a physically demanding job, more than anyone else in 11, keeping wickets and a frontline batsman and he is paid for that. This is a bit of cheating on his part ( unintentionally ) not giving his 100% and being paid 100% .

T20 may be not that tough , but one cannot play test matches all day while fasting .

I believe in science. He will also put himself at risk for dehydration induced health issues , kidney problem and electrolyte abnormalities .

It's slightly more nuanced than that.

Yes, you are exempted from fasting in the circumstances you've mentioned, but if you feel that you have the ability to fast, you should. In the past, travelling often meant going through some pretty tough conditions. Today, travel is almost as comfortable as it gets.

Obviously cricket matches are strenuous, but if Rizwan is fit and able, there shouldn't be a problem.

The "unintentional cheating" bit is a stretch. Some people don't treat religion as a mere accessory that you wear when convenient.
 
Pakistan cricketers should ALWAYS keep anything associated with religion to themselves. Religion is a personal matter and there is no reason to make any of your personal choices around it public.

Also, I have not seen a single person disrespecting Rizwan and his choice to fast. There is a difference of opinion, yes, but certainly no disrespect.

Why is that? That's a western and modern notion, not everyone subscribes to that framework.
 
Why is that? That's a western and modern notion, not everyone subscribes to that framework.

Because it's the right thing to do. Religion has no place on a cricket field.

Now don't tell me that every Pakistani will be equally supportive if a Hindu or Christian cricketer started to wear his religion on his sleeve while representing Pakistan on the field of cricket. And if you say that that won't be a problem, then you either don't live in Pak or just want to protect your argument.

Point is, these guys are cricketers and represent the country in just for that sport. They are not representatives of the religion and everything else should be there private affair.
 
It's slightly more nuanced than that.

Yes, you are exempted from fasting in the circumstances you've mentioned, but if you feel that you have the ability to fast, you should. In the past, travelling often meant going through some pretty tough conditions. Today, travel is almost as comfortable as it gets.

Obviously cricket matches are strenuous, but if Rizwan is fit and able, there shouldn't be a problem.

The "unintentional cheating" bit is a stretch. Some people don't treat religion as a mere accessory that you wear when convenient.

It is certainly not more nuanced than that. Pakistanis tend to make religion more complex than it is. Even in leniencies and flexibilities that their religion provides, they'll try to find nuances and complexities.

Also, no one can define the "ability to fast". All cricketers, have the "ability to fast" - they won't die on the field. But the point is, it will affect their performance. The affect would wary from one person to the other based on their fitness levels.

The cheating bit is not a stretch at all. Why would you say that? It is a fact that Rizwan cannot perform at his optimal level without any nourishment for 15 straight hours, but if he gets his full salary for that time, it is certainly unfair to his employer.
 
Who says he's not at his best you ? Me ? The management ?

Science says not me, nor you, nor the management. Rizwan is a human being, he is not some machine that can perform at his best without food or water in the biggest format of the game.


Of course he wasn't at his best after the two big scores in the t20s he should have got 150 only due to fasting hence why he couldn't reach more runs.

I think you need to reread my posts better since my issue is not with Twenty20 its with the longest format of the game.
 
Because it's the right thing to do. Religion has no place on a cricket field.

Now don't tell me that every Pakistani will be equally supportive if a Hindu or Christian cricketer started to wear his religion on his sleeve while representing Pakistan on the field of cricket. And if you say that that won't be a problem, then you either don't live in Pak or just want to protect your argument.

Point is, these guys are cricketers and represent the country in just for that sport. They are not representatives of the religion and everything else should be there private affair.

So your argument is that because there are certain bigoted individuals in the country, hence no one should publicly display any form of behaviour that suggests he/she is religious? Instead of just addressing the said bigoted individuals?

That's equivalent to creating a controversy out of a non-issue and then discussing it. Even if that were the case, I don't see any of our players publicly announcing that he/she is some ambassador of the faith. You can't blame them if they're thrust into the spotlight, just by practicing the basic fundamentals (fasting, etc.)

Yes, they are paid to play cricket, but that doesn't mean that people expect them to compromise on their principles. Or expect them to morph themselves so that no one around them knows that they follow a certain religion or not.

I have said this before, for some religion is an accessory of life, for others life revolves around their faith. Whatever you believe, that is your prerogative, but you should not expect everyone else to follow the framework that they fundamentally disagree with.
 
It is certainly not more nuanced than that. Pakistanis tend to make religion more complex than it is. Even in leniencies and flexibilities that their religion provides, they'll try to find nuances and complexities.

Also, no one can define the "ability to fast". All cricketers, have the "ability to fast" - they won't die on the field. But the point is, it will affect their performance. The affect would wary from one person to the other based on their fitness levels.

The cheating bit is not a stretch at all. Why would you say that? It is a fact that Rizwan cannot perform at his optimal level without any nourishment for 15 straight hours, but if he gets his full salary for that time, it is certainly unfair to his employer.

Well, that's just fundamentally incorrect. Yes, by in large, it is straightforward. But, there are differences of opinions, contextual rulings, exemptions based on time and place, which obviously require a bit more thoughtfulness than might be expected.

I think it was implied that 'ability to fast' is more of an umbrella phrase, which encompasses if the person considers themselves to be fit enough to go through with the fast without being affected significantly.

I called that "cheating bit" a stretch because you're assuming that everyone is fit and firing a 100% day-in and day-out at their jobs. As we all know, that isn't true. Many people take extended lunch breaks for the Friday prayer, but they don't get their pay docked since it's known that the prayer is an obligation. Following your argument, you could argue that many service technicians, or any other job that is physically intensive, should be paid at lower wage since they can't perform "optimally" while fasting. It's not sensible in my opinion.

There are many habits that players around the world take engage in (drinking, etc.), that obviously deteriorates their bodies gradually, and eventually, renders them as not a 100%. Yes, they may not be drinking on game day or just prior, but drinking has implications far beyond the short-term. Yet, we don't see as much policing regarding those habits, which will effect both their physical and mental headspace.

I think what people are essentially struggling to grasp with is that they consider fasting during playing as voluntary, but that is not what Rizwan necessarily believes. And he is absolutely fine in doing that since he's the better judge of his capacity.

All in all, this is a non-issue in my opinion.
 
Fasting while playing test or odi cricket and that to in zimbabwe is too extreme.

Performance does get affected, running between the wickes and the proactivness.
Plusz there will always be an injury risk or cramping issue due to no fluids being consumed.

Pcb invest on players, so they do have a right to intervene. But if anyone does intervene anyone of the players could leak it to media and have that person get bashed.

In t20, i guess its fine to some extent, but if you are doing hard training or playing a format that requires more than ,8 hours of your time playing in the sub, than you are harming yourself.

Even if he scores a 100 like this, it will take a toll on his body.

The actual playing time in a test day is only 6 hours. Rizwan has the fitness levels to easily stand on his feet for that amount of time while keeping. In fact regular people, who aren't athletes, in service level jobs do a typical 8 hour shift
 
its a serious shame that we are arguing abt some1z personal choices and religious belief

if it was having an impact on his performance, then u can argue but with him performance, I would want him to fast every game ...
 
The actual playing time in a test day is only 6 hours. Rizwan has the fitness levels to easily stand on his feet for that amount of time while keeping. In fact regular people, who aren't athletes, in service level jobs do a typical 8 hour shift
Those six hours have last 4 hours when you are going through extreme test of fasting. If you have done fasting on regular basis you will know we start to lose energy as approach near.
 
Science says not me, nor you, nor the management. Rizwan is a human being, he is not some machine that can perform at his best without food or water in the biggest format of the game.




I think you need to reread my posts better since my issue is not with Twenty20 its with the longest format of the game.

And we're does the science come from ?
 
Those six hours have last 4 hours when you are going through extreme test of fasting. If you have done fasting on regular basis you will know we start to lose energy as approach near.

I referee football matches 3 games when fasting it hasn't effected my performance.
 

Did not negatively effect is not the same as having benefits, like you said.

And cricket is a bit different, especially Test matches which are a sustained effort. Add in the fact that he's a keeper and an important batsman in a volatile lineup, it just suggests that observing Islamic fasting is likely less than ideal during cricket matches, especially since Pak went straight from SA.

Bottom line is, intermittent fasting can be pretty good, but Ramadan is either neutral or could be detrimental.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2017.01144/full#h10
The athlete section here shows some negative effects.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11325-019-01986-1
This shows a negative effect on sleep during Ramadan (detrimental to athletes).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20029094/

Suggests that some aspects of physical fitness are negatively impacted by Ramadan, but can be alleviated by getting good sleep (though, that is shown to be effected by Ramadan, as the other studies suggest).

Again, my only point is that Muslims should speak to what they'd think of as 'divine benefits', rather than benefits in sporting performance.
 
Like many have mentioned before rizwan is not the only sportsman to fast. Other sports hire and go through great lengths in sports science nutrition and the like. If they had an issue with fasting they would not allow the player to play, for example Paul pogba or Wesley fofana in football. Guess what the players play, the referee even gives them space to break their fast and they carry on because it’s their choice, people need to stop trying to force their own religious insecurities on to others, if you don’t find fasting beneficial cool, someone else might find it helps them, and if that someone else is a professional sports star then guess who’s opinions are invalid?
 
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Did not negatively effect is not the same as having benefits, like you said.

And cricket is a bit different, especially Test matches which are a sustained effort. Add in the fact that he's a keeper and an important batsman in a volatile lineup, it just suggests that observing Islamic fasting is likely less than ideal during cricket matches, especially since Pak went straight from SA.

Bottom line is, intermittent fasting can be pretty good, but Ramadan is either neutral or could be detrimental.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2017.01144/full#h10
The athlete section here shows some negative effects.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11325-019-01986-1
This shows a negative effect on sleep during Ramadan (detrimental to athletes).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20029094/

Suggests that some aspects of physical fitness are negatively impacted by Ramadan, but can be alleviated by getting good sleep (though, that is shown to be effected by Ramadan, as the other studies suggest).

Again, my only point is that Muslims should speak to what they'd think of as 'divine benefits', rather than benefits in sporting performance.

So basically there’s no benefit but there’s also no negative then is that what the study says?
 
So your argument is that because there are certain bigoted individuals in the country, hence no one should publicly display any form of behaviour that suggests he/she is religious? Instead of just addressing the said bigoted individuals?

That's equivalent to creating a controversy out of a non-issue and then discussing it. Even if that were the case, I don't see any of our players publicly announcing that he/she is some ambassador of the faith. You can't blame them if they're thrust into the spotlight, just by practicing the basic fundamentals (fasting, etc.)

Yes, they are paid to play cricket, but that doesn't mean that people expect them to compromise on their principles. Or expect them to morph themselves so that no one around them knows that they follow a certain religion or not.

I have said this before, for some religion is an accessory of life, for others life revolves around their faith. Whatever you believe, that is your prerogative, but you should not expect everyone else to follow the framework that they fundamentally disagree with.

No, that was not the point but only a statement which is quite true and most here, who are getting triggered, should ask themseleves. My view is that religion has far reaching consequences and different interpretations for everyone. Tomorrow, a player can object to wearing skin-fit jerseys because it is not permissible in Islam. Or they can object to music playing in the stadium because it is not permissible in Islam. We already saw Fakhar being reminded from the dressing room to offer a sajda when he scored a century. Things can get very muddy very fast and that is why I saw that religion should be kept separate from sports.

Also, no one is asking for a compromise here. As I said, it is 100% permissible to skip fasts in a strenuous job but if one is to make life difficult for one's own self, then that's a separate story. Rizwan is also well-within his right to sit out from any cricketing activities during Ramzan if as you say, his life revolves around his faith,... I am sure he won't go broke losing out on the money he makes from playing 3-5 games.
 
Well, that's just fundamentally incorrect. Yes, by in large, it is straightforward. But, there are differences of opinions, contextual rulings, exemptions based on time and place, which obviously require a bit more thoughtfulness than might be expected.

I think it was implied that 'ability to fast' is more of an umbrella phrase, which encompasses if the person considers themselves to be fit enough to go through with the fast without being affected significantly.

I called that "cheating bit" a stretch because you're assuming that everyone is fit and firing a 100% day-in and day-out at their jobs. As we all know, that isn't true. Many people take extended lunch breaks for the Friday prayer, but they don't get their pay docked since it's known that the prayer is an obligation. Following your argument, you could argue that many service technicians, or any other job that is physically intensive, should be paid at lower wage since they can't perform "optimally" while fasting. It's not sensible in my opinion.

There are many habits that players around the world take engage in (drinking, etc.), that obviously deteriorates their bodies gradually, and eventually, renders them as not a 100%. Yes, they may not be drinking on game day or just prior, but drinking has implications far beyond the short-term. Yet, we don't see as much policing regarding those habits, which will effect both their physical and mental headspace.

I think what people are essentially struggling to grasp with is that they consider fasting during playing as voluntary, but that is not what Rizwan necessarily believes. And he is absolutely fine in doing that since he's the better judge of his capacity.

All in all, this is a non-issue in my opinion.

What does it mean to be "affected significantly"?

No, I am certainly not assuming that everyone is 100% fit and firing at their job every single day. However, if you are intentionally putting yourself at a disadvantage physically in a job where your fitness everything, then that is a different story. So, your comparison to a service technician is incorrect as because that job can be performed equally well even if you physically somewhat handicapped. However, a slight dip in fitness for an athlete will have a meaningful consequence on performance.
 
So basically there’s no benefit but there’s also no negative then is that what the study says?

The study that you linked said that, yes. However, you claimed there to be health benefits.

The studies I linked showed (at least some) decrease in performance.

I never said Rizwan shouldn't fast, I just said that it almost certainly will affect him, at least to some degree.
 
Well I'm watching Burnley v West Ham at the moment and after 36 minutes West Ham's Algerian midfielder Said Benrahma came off the pitch to break his fast.

He was probably the best player on the pitch in the first half.
 
Well I'm watching Burnley v West Ham at the moment and after 36 minutes West Ham's Algerian midfielder Said Benrahma came off the pitch to break his fast.

He was probably the best player on the pitch in the first half.

Its much more difficult for footballers than cricketers to fast. Got to appreciate their dedication. If people can't do the same or disagree they should stay quiet
 
Did not negatively effect is not the same as having benefits, like you said.

And cricket is a bit different, especially Test matches which are a sustained effort. Add in the fact that he's a keeper and an important batsman in a volatile lineup, it just suggests that observing Islamic fasting is likely less than ideal during cricket matches, especially since Pak went straight from SA.

Bottom line is, intermittent fasting can be pretty good, but Ramadan is either neutral or could be detrimental.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2017.01144/full#h10
The athlete section here shows some negative effects.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11325-019-01986-1
This shows a negative effect on sleep during Ramadan (detrimental to athletes).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20029094/

Suggests that some aspects of physical fitness are negatively impacted by Ramadan, but can be alleviated by getting good sleep (though, that is shown to be effected by Ramadan, as the other studies suggest).

Again, my only point is that Muslims should speak to what they'd think of as 'divine benefits', rather than benefits in sporting performance.

If something doesn't effect you then you can do it as it won't effect your performance.
 
The study that you linked said that, yes. However, you claimed there to be health benefits.

The studies I linked showed (at least some) decrease in performance.

I never said Rizwan shouldn't fast, I just said that it almost certainly will affect him, at least to some degree.

Do you know and understand cholesterol,insulin levels and how it works.
 
If something doesn't effect you then you can do it as it won't effect your performance.

You made the claim that there are benefits, not that it simply 'won't affect performance'.
Do you know and understand cholesterol,insulin levels and how it works.

Those assertions don't change the fact that of the studies that I linked. I think you're done here, you can't refute those studies.
 
Can you please share the links of those articles that are talking about how fasting can increase mental strength and help you grow as a cricketer?

[MENTION=149054]shamaan[/MENTION]

Still waiting for this brother.
 
What does it mean to be "affected significantly"?

No, I am certainly not assuming that everyone is 100% fit and firing at their job every single day. However, if you are intentionally putting yourself at a disadvantage physically in a job where your fitness everything, then that is a different story. So, your comparison to a service technician is incorrect as because that job can be performed equally well even if you physically somewhat handicapped. However, a slight dip in fitness for an athlete will have a meaningful consequence on performance.

By 'affected significantly', I mean any kind of impact that would hinder you physically to a degree where it becomes a problem/measurable disadvantage. Not just conjecture that people would assume.

On-field service technician can be quite a physically intensive jobs. There are many roles that essentially require more physical prowess than thinking capacity, and all those will fall under the 'job where fitness is critical' category. Those would be impacted too by that line of argument.

But regardless, think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
 

You can find many articles of the sort online and ask the athletes themselves, the discipline fasting brings improves your focus, your concentration, even your alertness believe it or not. Once you have gone through the initial 5 days of getting your body used to it the health benefits greatly outweigh the cons.
 
You can find many articles of the sort online and ask the athletes themselves, the discipline fasting brings improves your focus, your concentration, even your alertness believe it or not. Once you have gone through the initial 5 days of getting your body used to it the health benefits greatly outweigh the cons.

Considering it brings so many benefits I don’t see why players don’t fast outside of ramadan to improve there performance. This should be added to there daily routine infact.
 
Can you please share the links of those articles that are talking about how fasting can increase mental strength and help you grow as a cricketer?

It's possible as it improves your spiritual health. Yoga does it for some people, fasting for others. Don't see what's the issue here
 
It's possible as it improves your spiritual health. Yoga does it for some people, fasting for others. Don't see what's the issue here

The issue is that none of this makes sense or is backed by science when it comes to cricket. Besides, this is the cricket section of this forum and we are discussing cricket here, so when you guys give examples of mental strength etc etc, just make sure that you guys relate this to cricket and how this can help your team win a game. That mental strength that you work on and improve by fasting, should have some sort of relation to cricket or how it can help you grow as a cricketer, otherwise just learn to seperate cricket and religion. Once again, I have nothing against Rizwan or him fasting, I just think that he can get injured if he continues to play like this. and we should never schedule any games during this holy month of Ramadan and if for any reason, we must and dont have a choice, then only play the players who are not fasting, otherwise we risk getting them injured.
 
Religion is most important and bigger than anything else because it's what's going to matter in the end, not some cricket match.

It's the team management's decision to make, whether Rizwan should play or not. But good luck winning matches without him.
 
The issue is that none of this makes sense or is backed by science when it comes to cricket. Besides, this is the cricket section of this forum and we are discussing cricket here, so when you guys give examples of mental strength etc etc, just make sure that you guys relate this to cricket and how this can help your team win a game. That mental strength that you work on and improve by fasting, should have some sort of relation to cricket or how it can help you grow as a cricketer, otherwise just learn to seperate cricket and religion. Once again, I have nothing against Rizwan or him fasting, I just think that he can get injured if he continues to play like this. and we should never schedule any games during this holy month of Ramadan and if for any reason, we must and dont have a choice, then only play the players who are not fasting, otherwise we risk getting them injured.

How does mental well being not relate to cricket or any other discipline of life for that matter? If he believes divine forces would be with him while he's fasting and it helps him staying calm during pressure situations. Has his performance deteriorated? if no then who are we to complaint?
 
The issue is that none of this makes sense or is backed by science when it comes to cricket. Besides, this is the cricket section of this forum and we are discussing cricket here, so when you guys give examples of mental strength etc etc, just make sure that you guys relate this to cricket and how this can help your team win a game. That mental strength that you work on and improve by fasting, should have some sort of relation to cricket or how it can help you grow as a cricketer, otherwise just learn to seperate cricket and religion. Once again, I have nothing against Rizwan or him fasting, I just think that he can get injured if he continues to play like this. and we should never schedule any games during this holy month of Ramadan and if for any reason, we must and dont have a choice, then only play the players who are not fasting, otherwise we risk getting them injured.

Weres the link between injurys and fasting in sport.i was talking about general mental strength no were did i give a specific I gave a general statement.
 
[MENTION=154644]HussainZ[/MENTION] and [MENTION=149054]shamaan[/MENTION]

I will have to do a very long post to answer the last two questions in this thread. Will get to this in a day or two. Thanks
 
This is a religious matter. If he and his employer are OK with it, then who the heck are we?

If you don’t like it, don’t watch him play. His payroll does not come from your bank account.

I think the most stupid answer I saw in this thread was, “It’s not (Rizwan’s) choice whether he can fast or not”.
WTH ??
 
Well I'm watching Burnley v West Ham at the moment and after 36 minutes West Ham's Algerian midfielder Said Benrahma came off the pitch to break his fast.

He was probably the best player on the pitch in the first half.

If a fit player takes a healthy and heavy diet and good hydration in Suhoor, then it’s doable by many. These are international level fit players.

Heck, even I and many other players have played T20 games in this and in many previous Ramadan weekends.

We gotta a game lined up on Sunday again.

I am sure it will be very hard to play test cricket while fasting. And if Rizwan or his employer believes it’s dangerous to his own health and/or significantly dents the performance then they should talk, and decide what’s best for the country and what’s best for Rizwan’s personal faith related practice?
 
As far as footballers fasting is concerned, We live in a such a hyper-sensitive era that if a manager asks his player to not fast, there will be a huge uproar on social media and the manager and the club will get blasted like no tomorrow.

Racism, Islamophobia, bigotry, discrimination, violation of human rights etc. – all cards will be played one by one.

During the 2018 World Cup, the Egyptian squad was fasting and the president of the Egyptian football federation publicly stated that fasting affected the performance of their players and the players refused to listen to him when he implored them to not fast during matches.

The poor guy got heavily criticized for what he said.

Players should not fast during matches, be it cricket or football. The possibility of a decline in performance due to fasting cannot be ruled out, and the team should not a pay a price for their religious beliefs.
 
If a fit player takes a healthy and heavy diet and good hydration in Suhoor, then it’s doable by many. These are international level fit players.

Heck, even I and many other players have played T20 games in this and in many previous Ramadan weekends.

We gotta a game lined up on Sunday again.

I am sure it will be very hard to play test cricket while fasting. And if Rizwan or his employer believes it’s dangerous to his own health and/or significantly dents the performance then they should talk, and decide what’s best for the country and what’s best for Rizwan’s personal faith related practice?

So you don't think fan's opinion matters? If all fans stop watchig cricket then how will PCB generate revenue? The time and resources I invest in this game indirectly benefits PCB so why do you think our opinion doesn't matter?
 
Majority of the countries in the Middle East tend to shorten the working day in Ramadan to make it easier for those observing the fast.

Yet the PCB decides a pointless tour of Zimbabwe which will only harm Pakistan cricket.

Either way, no one has the right to tell any individual whether to fast or not. It is a personal decision and should be respected.
 
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