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Mohammad Salah's Christmas tweet

I can provide links but I won't, simply because I'm aware what happens next, a discussion about which scholars or schools of thought you follow.

I simply ask, based on the scholars you trust and take information/guidance on I can see either confidence they won't support such actions.

If you can show otherwise then I'd be happy to look at that information.

I don't really follow scholars on such issues since I doubt they would have an understanding of what is actually going on with regards to Christmas decorations during this period. As I said in a previous post, most people in the western world don't really connect Christmas with religion any more, it's just a holiday period which is celebrated with presents and decorations, usually no mention of Jesus PBUH at all. Eating turkey or buying PS5s or iphones doesn't really have much religious significance. You don't need a scholar to tell you that.
 
Then you have no idea how precious religion is, which is fair enough, good for you.

But dont expect the rest of us to sell this beautiful deen for the cheap price you have brother.

You cannot criticise people for judging you and while you make filthy statements like the above.

Spot on

This liberal nonsense is attempting to infect and modify this deen to suit their world view.

If Islam as it is doesn't work for them then they need to find something else that does.

However, they'll fail in their attempts to change it.
 
1. Im not the one giving verdicts about others.

2. I see nothing wrong with it even if Salah played for Newcastle.

3. I dont take part but I wish merry Xmas and give gifts to my neighours esp the elderly. You never wished anyone Merry Xmas? Or accepted or given a Xmas gift?

1) So you didn't say it was fine? That's a verdict, just very different to mine

2) Oh, so YOU see nothing wrong with it? A verdict indeed

3) When I was younger and ignorant then yes but Alhamdulillah when I got older and realised I don't need to partake in actions that go contrary to Islam to just fit in.
 
This is a classic nonsensical post.

You've just generalised that a group of people (the "anti-christmas gang") also have no problem with Muslim men marrying Christian women.

A couple of points why it's nonsensical

1) One thing being unacceptable doesn't mean another thing can't be acceptable. It's an absurd link. Like suggesting people who say Muslims shouldn't celebrate Christmas will also say you should only eat Halal meat. Ridiculous and irrelevant link

2) Unless you can pinpoint someone that holds both positions then raising it is pointless. If you can do that then you need to direct it to that individual.

If we want to talk about what is ridiculous, nonsensical and irrelevant then you should refer to your example of your analogy about consuming Halal meat.

But I'll break it down for you in case you're oblivious, however I'm sure you're smarter than that.

Christians celebrate Christmas.

Lets say I was to marry a Christian and we co-habit as all married couples do. Now imagine, it's Christmas day and I tell her I won't be celebrating Christmas with her :)))

Also imagine I tell Salah, "Astagfirullah akhi, you celebrate Christmas, are you a Christian now?" :)))

Do you not see the contradiction here and how absurd it is for one to be outraged at someone celebrating Christmas but has no issues with Muslim men marrying Christian Women?
 
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I don't really follow scholars on such issues since I doubt they would have an understanding of what is actually going on with regards to Christmas decorations during this period. As I said in a previous post, most people in the western world don't really connect Christmas with religion any more, it's just a holiday period which is celebrated with presents and decorations, usually no mention of Jesus PBUH at all. Eating turkey or buying PS5s or iphones doesn't really have much religious significance. You don't need a scholar to tell you that.

If you want to operate on the basis where you think you are the expert then carry on ahead but I'll take the views of people that have studied Islam

I'm not arrogant enough to think a quick Google makes me qualified on such matters

Like I said, if that's how you do things then that's your right but it doesn't make it a part of Islam and it will never become a part of Islam.
 
If you want to operate on the basis where you think you are the expert then carry on ahead but I'll take the views of people that have studied Islam

I'm not arrogant enough to think a quick Google makes me qualified on such matters

Like I said, if that's how you do things then that's your right but it doesn't make it a part of Islam and it will never become a part of Islam.

He put up a tree with some lights on it. You still have to show me how where in Islam that is forbidden. No one is making eating swine a part of Islam here, let's take a step back and look at what is the reality vs what is imagination.
 
If we want to talk about what is ridiculous, nonsensical and irrelevant then you should refer to your example of your analogy about consuming Halal meat.

But I'll break it down for you in case you're oblivious, however I'm sure you're smarter than that.

Christians celebrate Christmas.

Lets say I was to marry a Christian and we co-habit as all married couples do. Now imagine, it's Christmas day and I tell her I won't be celebrating Christmas with her. Also imagine I tell Salah, "Astagfirullah akhi, you celebrate Christmas, are you a Christian now?"

Do you not see the contradiction here and how absurd it is for one to be outraged at someone celebrating Christmas but has no issues with Muslim men marrying Christian Women?

I gave that nonsense analogy just to demonstrate how absurd your link was, I'm glad you understood that.

Nobody suggested putting up a tree makes someone a Christian so pointless comment.

As for marrying Christian Women, there's a couple of points

1) It's a bit more of a complicated discussion that requires more detail but as a general point what we consider to be a Christian woman is likely to differ

2) Christmas is a secular festival with pagan rituals, proper Christians wouldn't get involved in most of the activities so there isn't necessarily a contradiction
 
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He put up a tree with some lights on it. You still have to show me how where in Islam that is forbidden. No one is making eating swine a part of Islam here, let's take a step back and look at what is the reality vs what is imagination.

You can downplay it as just "a tree with some lights"

It's quite clear what it was as he also said MerryXmas.

Again, clearly you take your Islam based on your own limited knowledge so you'll never agree on this subject.

The difference is speak to scholars and they'll agree it isn't allowed.

When it comes to matters of deen your own personal opinion is irrelevant.
 
1) So you didn't say it was fine? That's a verdict, just very different to mine

2) Oh, so YOU see nothing wrong with it? A verdict indeed

3) When I was younger and ignorant then yes but Alhamdulillah when I got older and realised I don't need to partake in actions that go contrary to Islam to just fit in.

1. Im suggesting its up to Salah and afaik hes a strong Muslim.

2. According to ones intention if they dont believe in Xmas as a religous celeberation, no there isnt.

3. Good for you but I would rather help people by giving them a gift or if someone gives me a gift , I of course accept it.

Bottom line, Salah doesnt care what others think.
 
I personally do not say "Merry Christmas". I always say "Happy Holidays".

Why? It is because most scholars/preachers say it's not allowed because this holiday is celebrating birth of Jesus (PBUH) like he is the son of God. In Islamic theology, there is no room for trinity.

Anyway, my nearby Christians don't mind it. They were never mad about it. I just want to be on the safer side.
 
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1. Im suggesting its up to Salah and afaik hes a strong Muslim.

2. According to ones intention if they dont believe in Xmas as a religous celeberation, no there isnt.

3. Good for you but I would rather help people by giving them a gift or if someone gives me a gift , I of course accept it.

Bottom line, Salah doesnt care what others think.

1) I think we agree on this point that it's entirely up to him to do what he wants. I never commented saying he shouldn't do this or that. I've simply commented on what is or isn't acceptable within Islam. A Muslim (famous or otherwise) can do an action that's contrary, that's their choice but doesn't mean it's allowed within Islam. That's the point I'm making.

2) Again, a verdict that you are making based on your own opinion. Do you have any scholarly support that getting involved in Christmas celebrations is fine as long as your intentions are that it isn't a religious celebration?

3) Help people? Talk about a leap, you can only help people by giving them a Christmas gift?

I don't celebrate Christmas. I stick to celebrations that are allowed/encouraged as a Muslim. My friends and colleagues are aware of that. I can help them in many ways without getting involved in rituals but if you feel you need to do that to fit in that's your call.
 
I personally do not say "Merry Christmas". I always say "Happy Holidays".

Why? It is because most scholars/preachers say it's not allowed because this holiday is celebrating birth of Jesus (PBUH) like he is the son of God. In Islamic theology, there is no room for trinity.

Anyway, my nearby Christians don't mind it. They were never mad about it. I just want to be on the safer side.

This is the sensible and logical approach as a Muslim

However, sadly many Muslims feel they need to get involved to fit in or it's something they want to do as it's desirable to them.
 
1) I think we agree on this point that it's entirely up to him to do what he wants. I never commented saying he shouldn't do this or that. I've simply commented on what is or isn't acceptable within Islam. A Muslim (famous or otherwise) can do an action that's contrary, that's their choice but doesn't mean it's allowed within Islam. That's the point I'm making.

2) Again, a verdict that you are making based on your own opinion. Do you have any scholarly support that getting involved in Christmas celebrations is fine as long as your intentions are that it isn't a religious celebration?

3) Help people? Talk about a leap, you can only help people by giving them a Christmas gift?

I don't celebrate Christmas. I stick to celebrations that are allowed/encouraged as a Muslim. My friends and colleagues are aware of that. I can help them in many ways without getting involved in rituals but if you feel you need to do that to fit in that's your call.

Do you not wish Merry Xmas?

It depends which scholars you listen too. I stay away from the literal Saudi version of school. This has only been around for 200 or so years.

Responding to your question, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and an Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:

Muslims are to greet others as we would like them to greet us. The generic Islamic greeting is to wish for peace, which in Arabic is: as-salaamu `alaykum. We are told this is the greeting that Allah taught Adam: He was told to greet with it the angels first; he was also told, “This is the formula of greeting for you and your offspring.” (Al-Bukhari)

Having said this, there is no harm in using the standard greeting that are common to people. If you are greeting Christians you may wish them Happy or Merry Christmas.

This does not in any way mean that you are adhering to the specific Christian dogmas of trinity, crucifixion, etc., unless you definitely intend it.

https://aboutislam.net/counseling/a...an-muslims-say-merry-christmas-to-christians/
 
Since the thread is still going on I will quote this tweet by a Muslim journalist Elamin Abdelmahmoud who summarises exactly my feelings on this issue are:

“My fav Christmas Eve tradition is when Mo Salah posts his annual Christmas tree photo and then he receives a lecture from every grumpy Muslim uncle about why that’s haram and then the post evolves into whether a single Christmas tree is gonna annihilate the entire Ummah”.
 
I gave that nonsense analogy just to demonstrate how absurd your link was, I'm glad you understood that.

Nobody suggested putting up a tree makes someone a Christian so pointless comment.

Sorry I had to go for football so it was a rushed response, let me reclarify:

What I'm actually saying is for you to suggest my comment about Muslims who get outraged over Christmas celebrations carried out by Muslims and have no issues with Muslim men marrying Christians is not akin to your example of "people who say Muslims shouldn't celebrate Christmas will also say you should only eat Halal meat". It's not an analogous in any way. It's an absurd claim.

As for marrying Christian Women, there's a couple of points

1) It's a bit more of a complicated discussion that requires more detail but as a general point what we consider to be a Christian woman is likely to differ

2) Christmas is a secular festival with pagan rituals, proper Christians wouldn't get involved in most of the activities so there isn't necessarily a contradiction

Now you've diverted the discussion into something else because you've just clocked on how dumb it really is for any Muslim to call out another Muslim for celebrating Christmas but has no issues with a man who follows the same faith and is married to a Christian woman. The latter is clearly permitted in Islam. There are no restrictions on which sect of Christianity they wish to adhere to.

The bottom line is most Christians celebrate Christmas so if anyone has a problem with Muslims celebrating then they should also be outraged by Muslim men marrying Christians. If this is the case they have gone against the teachings of Islam as marriage between Muslim men and Christian women is permitted.
 
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Nope, I don't wish Merry Xmas/Christmas to anyone

As for that response, be honest, do you take all your opinions from that Sheikh? Or have you just shared one from someone that thinks it's fine?

Sad to read imo.

There are others too but I dont recall where I read or who I listened to over the years. If you disagree, its your right but this simple view is what I agree with. Intention is very important in Islam. Do you recall the story of the man who murdered 100 people?

Your view opens up a can of worms. Do you say Happy Birthday or celebrate this in your family? Have you ever given a kid an Easter Egg? Etc
 
It’s a lovely gesture to be wished Happy Christmas from pretty much anyone, and Muslims would be included in this.

I always look forward to Mo Salah’s annual Christmas post.

I work with a lot of Muslims and they all wish me a good Christmas when we leave the office on Christmas Eve.
 
Sad to read imo.

There are others too but I dont recall where I read or who I listened to over the years. If you disagree, its your right but this simple view is what I agree with. Intention is very important in Islam. Do you recall the story of the man who murdered 100 people?

Your view opens up a can of worms. Do you say Happy Birthday or celebrate this in your family? Have you ever given a kid an Easter Egg? Etc

Clearly we have a different view on Islam and what it entails

On this subject the mainstream and majority opinion is clear and I'm comfortable with going with that

I don't celebrate my own birthday (though did as a kid very loosely) or my kids/family members as I don't believe it to be acceptable

I celebrate the two Eid's and then celebrate any achievements/moments of joy (birth of a child, graduation, job promotion etc etc)
 
Why do you assume that I have no problems with Muslim men marrying Christian women?

I'm speaking generally, as most Muslims hold this view. It wasn't aimed at you.

No Muslim should be humiliating and calling out guys like Mohamed Salah. He's played a big role in uplifting our image which isn't the best in the Western world. Besides his charity work where he's done an enormous amount for his local village, he has also been vocal about Women's rights in the Middle East when he said 'We need to change the way we treat women in our culture". Funnily enough those who criticise him about his Christmas tree never have a word to say about this because they don't really care about the Deen and the wellbeing of our sisters in the Ummah.
 
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I'm speaking generally, as most Muslims hold this view. It wasn't aimed at you.

No Muslim should be humiliating and calling out guys like Mohamed Salah. He's played a big role in uplifting our image which isn't the best in the Western world. Besides his charity work where he's done an enormous amount for his local village, he has also been vocal about Women's rights in the Middle East when he said 'We need to change the way we treat women in our culture". Funnily enough those who criticise him about his Christmas tree never have a word to say about this because they don't really care about the Deen and the wellbeing of our sisters in the Ummah.

You love an assumption don't you
 
Clearly we have a different view on Islam and what it entails

On this subject the mainstream and majority opinion is clear and I'm comfortable with going with that

I don't celebrate my own birthday (though did as a kid very loosely) or my kids/family members as I don't believe it to be acceptable

I celebrate the two Eid's and then celebrate any achievements/moments of joy (birth of a child, graduation, job promotion etc etc)

Fair enough. We all are entilted to live our lives but thanks for the dicussion.

P.s Salah is going to tear apart Geordies when we visit Newcastle on 18th Feb. :salah
 
Fair enough. We all are entilted to live our lives but thanks for the dicussion.

P.s Salah is going to tear apart Geordies when we visit Newcastle on 18th Feb. :salah

Looking forward to that game, got a feeling the spiciness of the game at Anfield will carry over
 
Fair enough. We all are entilted to live our lives but thanks for the dicussion.

P.s Salah is going to tear apart Geordies when we visit Newcastle on 18th Feb. :salah

You'll need to hope your Big Six pre-loaded VAR won't bail you out again this time then.
 
You can downplay it as just "a tree with some lights"

It's quite clear what it was as he also said MerryXmas.

Again, clearly you take your Islam based on your own limited knowledge so you'll never agree on this subject.

The difference is speak to scholars and they'll agree it isn't allowed.

When it comes to matters of deen your own personal opinion is irrelevant.

So is yours by that logic and that's the only view you've presented to now.
 
It is sad to see the certain Muslims resent Christmas to the extent they will not even wish anyone, let alone Christians a Merry Christmas. If they have such an issue with Christians and their culture, what are they doing living in a Christian nation?

Their argument that Xmas was once a pagan festival is akin to the Ka'bah once filled with idols.

Jesus [PBUH] was a messenger of God, and Xmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus [PBUH].

All my money in the pocket says these Islamic tough guys are the first to book a Xmas holiday too, AND, the first to demand people respect Islam in the Western hemisphere!

Islam doesn't need the media or terrorists to give it a bad name, when we have Muslim tough guys from Newcastle alike!
 
It is sad to see the certain Muslims resent Christmas to the extent they will not even wish anyone, let alone Christians a Merry Christmas. If they have such an issue with Christians and their culture, what are they doing living in a Christian nation?

Their argument that Xmas was once a pagan festival is akin to the Ka'bah once filled with idols.

Jesus [PBUH] was a messenger of God, and Xmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus [PBUH].

All my money in the pocket says these Islamic tough guys are the first to book a Xmas holiday too, AND, the first to demand people respect Islam in the Western hemisphere!

Islam doesn't need the media or terrorists to give it a bad name, when we have Muslim tough guys from Newcastle alike!

So it isn't just football that your nonsense is restricted to

1) Not celebrating Christmas or wishing Christmas is akin to having a problem with Christians? Also you think this is a Christian nation?

2) The rituals of Christmas are rooted in paganism and the Christian doctrine has done nothing to change that, so the comparison is flawed.

3) Muslims don't celebrate the birth of Jesus (PBUH) or any other prophet so Irrelevant point yet again

4) Good thing betting is haram otherwise you'd lose your money.

5) Ah yes, an irrelevant guy in Newcastle has as much influence as the mass media. Islam would flourish further if it didn't have weak hearted Muslims from Brentford that feel they need to fit in and can't miss out on getting involved in secret santa.
 
It is sad to see the certain Muslims resent Christmas to the extent they will not even wish anyone, let alone Christians a Merry Christmas. If they have such an issue with Christians and their culture, what are they doing living in a Christian nation?

Their argument that Xmas was once a pagan festival is akin to the Ka'bah once filled with idols.

Jesus [PBUH] was a messenger of God, and Xmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus [PBUH].

All my money in the pocket says these Islamic tough guys are the first to book a Xmas holiday too, AND, the first to demand people respect Islam in the Western hemisphere!

Islam doesn't need the media or terrorists to give it a bad name, when we have Muslim tough guys from Newcastle alike!

Do a bit of research. Jesus (pbuh) wasn't even born on the 25 December.

And In Islam, we aren't supposed to celebrate birthdays of the prophets.
 
It is sad to see the certain Muslims resent Christmas to the extent they will not even wish anyone, let alone Christians a Merry Christmas. If they have such an issue with Christians and their culture, what are they doing living in a Christian nation?

Their argument that Xmas was once a pagan festival is akin to the Ka'bah once filled with idols.

Jesus [PBUH] was a messenger of God, and Xmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus [PBUH].

All my money in the pocket says these Islamic tough guys are the first to book a Xmas holiday too, AND, the first to demand people respect Islam in the Western hemisphere!

Islam doesn't need the media or terrorists to give it a bad name, when we have Muslim tough guys from Newcastle alike!

Do a bit of research. Jesus (pbuh) wasn't even born on the 25 December.

And In Islam, we aren't supposed to celebrate birthdays of the prophets.
 
Do a bit of research. Jesus (pbuh) wasn't even born on the 25 December.

And In Islam, we aren't supposed to celebrate birthdays of the prophets.

It is you, millenials, who need to do the research. No one said Dec 25th is the 'Birthday' of Jesus [PBUH], but a celebration commemorating the birth of Jesus [PBUH].

This is why xmas is about gifts and family, and not birthday cakes.
 
I dont take part but I wish merry Xmas and give gifts to my neighours esp the elderly. You never wished anyone Merry Xmas? Or accepted or given a Xmas gift?

Thanks KKWC

I am genuinely taken aback to read the views of some people on this topic. Don’t celebrate Christmas, 100% fine, but some of the opinions beyond that are a bit over the top imo.

What KKWC describes is essentially just being a decent person and having good manners, but it’s him getting flak for it :)

Like I posted above, where I work, Muslims regularly wish people a Happy Christmas and tbh all of the religious holidays are recognised in some way by the organisation, for example, most non-Muslim colleagues wish Muslims for example Eid Mubarak.

Shows how real life can be so different to the internet.
 
Do a bit of research. Jesus (pbuh) wasn't even born on the 25 December.

And In Islam, we aren't supposed to celebrate birthdays of the prophets.

Why are you so rigid? You are the type of person who contributes massively to Islamophobia in the West.
 
Thanks KKWC

I am genuinely taken aback to read the views of some people on this topic. Don’t celebrate Christmas, 100% fine, but some of the opinions beyond that are a bit over the top imo.

What KKWC describes is essentially just being a decent person and having good manners, but it’s him getting flak for it :)

Like I posted above, where I work, Muslims regularly wish people a Happy Christmas and tbh all of the religious holidays are recognised in some way by the organisation, for example, most non-Muslim colleagues wish Muslims for example Eid Mubarak.

Shows how real life can be so different to the internet.

It's not about opinions, it's about people believing something to go against their religion, if that is the case then it's unfair to say it's over the top

You could then apply that to lots of things and it's an unfair thing to do. You are against a small bet here and there? Some opinions are so over the top. (You see how absurd that sounds)

I get it from your perspective it might be difficult to understand as it's not something that goes against your core belief.

Again, I think it comes down to a healthy discussion. My colleagues are aware of my stance on Christmas, birthdays, halloween etc so there is no expectation for me to get involved in any way, shape or form.

Similarly I have some colleagues that are staunch atheists so they make it clear they won't wish Muslims a happy Eid Mubarak or Ramadan and that's completely fine too.

It would be problematic if I expected others to wish my religious acts well but then not reciprocate. That would be hypocritical and over the top.
 
If we want to talk about what is ridiculous, nonsensical and irrelevant then you should refer to your example of your analogy about consuming Halal meat.

But I'll break it down for you in case you're oblivious, however I'm sure you're smarter than that.

Christians celebrate Christmas.

Lets say I was to marry a Christian and we co-habit as all married couples do. Now imagine, it's Christmas day and I tell her I won't be celebrating Christmas with her :)))

Also imagine I tell Salah, "Astagfirullah akhi, you celebrate Christmas, are you a Christian now?" :)))

Do you not see the contradiction here and how absurd it is for one to be outraged at someone celebrating Christmas but has no issues with Muslim men marrying Christian Women?

Making a dumb point over and over again doesn't stop it being dumb.

Would you go to the church with your Christian wife and take part in her rituals if you were co habiting?

How about walk about a Christian cross on because the Chrstian wife wears it? Or enjoy a cheeky pork pie with her.
 
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On the contrary, I fell compelled to educate people who have fallen on the wrong path.
Mostly those who preach and don't actually follow Islam.

It's shameful really but it's there.
God bless

Ah ok.

Its ok for you to 'educate' but when someone gives an opinion contrary to yours then you mock them.

Its ok for you to certify who is following Islam but when someone else gives an opinion then they are being judgemental.

Makes complete sense thanks for clarifying.
 
Do a bit of research. Jesus (pbuh) wasn't even born on the 25 December.

And In Islam, we aren't supposed to celebrate birthdays of the prophets.

These guys will twist and turn in an attempt to pass of their behaviour.

One minute its not Christian and is secular so it ok, the next minute it becomes Christian and ok because we are commerating Jesus (as).
 
Ah ok.

Its ok for you to 'educate' but when someone gives an opinion contrary to yours then you mock them.

Its ok for you to certify who is following Islam but when someone else gives an opinion then they are being judgemental.

Makes complete sense thanks for clarifying.

I'm glad it's sorted out for you...

Joking aside, the only reason I say what I say is because Salah putting up a Chsitmas Tree and Muslims wishing merry Christmas is really no one else's business. What someone does is between them and their god so why does every Tom, dick and Harry have to invoke themselves with this?

I wish people Merry Chsitsmas, I also wish my Jewish friends Shana Tova as they wish me Eid Mubarak.. why can't people just be allowed to live their lives as they wish?
 
These guys will twist and turn in an attempt to pass of their behaviour.

One minute its not Christian and is secular so it ok, the next minute it becomes Christian and ok because we are commerating Jesus (as).

Indeed

Much prefer they be honest and they just admit they like the celebrations and getting involved in them

The notion that they are celebrating the birth of a prophet is just laughable
 
I'm glad it's sorted out for you...

Joking aside, the only reason I say what I say is because Salah putting up a Chsitmas Tree and Muslims wishing merry Christmas is really no one else's business. What someone does is between them and their god so why does every Tom, dick and Harry have to invoke themselves with this?

I wish people Merry Chsitsmas, I also wish my Jewish friends Shana Tova as they wish me Eid Mubarak.. why can't people just be allowed to live their lives as they wish?

I fully agree with your last line

Anyone that replied to Salah's post giving him grief is a clown

However this is a forum, discussions are part and parcel of it, may as well shut it down if people can't share their thoughts
 
One of my fondest memories of visiting Pakistan during Christmas was visiting my cousins teachers homes, majority of whom were Christians. Giving them presents and wishing them Merry Christmas.

As much as one tries not to judge people some of the posters here make it extremely difficult
 
I'm glad it's sorted out for you...

Joking aside, the only reason I say what I say is because Salah putting up a Chsitmas Tree and Muslims wishing merry Christmas is really no one else's business. What someone does is between them and their god so why does every Tom, dick and Harry have to invoke themselves with this?

I wish people Merry Chsitsmas, I also wish my Jewish friends Shana Tova as they wish me Eid Mubarak.. why can't people just be allowed to live their lives as they wish?

Salah is a global icon who has built a big brand and has a large muslim following. When someone like that brings things into the public domain people will comment. Its part of life. In not on social media nor does football form enough of my identity to care about what individual players do...I wouldn't have commented or caref otherwise....but its a thread on PP and we gotta chat about something..

I fully respect your line of argument when you say its ultimately for a person to decide what they want to do. If a person is irreligious or genuinley just wants to celebrate it good for them.

I find that perfectly reasonable, infinitely more so than the arguments about Salah giving more charity than us so its ok, or the silly one about hypothetical christian wifes, or the its just a secular holiday/ a Prophets birthday depending which way the wind blows.
 
Indeed

Much prefer they be honest and they just admit they like the celebrations and getting involved in them

The notion that they are celebrating the birth of a prophet is just laughable

Yeah completely agree with that.

I respect those people more than the ones riggling around trying to find validation.
 
It's not about opinions, it's about people believing something to go against their religion, if that is the case then it's unfair to say it's over the top

You could then apply that to lots of things and it's an unfair thing to do. You are against a small bet here and there? Some opinions are so over the top. (You see how absurd that sounds)

I get it from your perspective it might be difficult to understand as it's not something that goes against your core belief.

Again, I think it comes down to a healthy discussion. My colleagues are aware of my stance on Christmas, birthdays, halloween etc so there is no expectation for me to get involved in any way, shape or form.

Similarly I have some colleagues that are staunch atheists so they make it clear they won't wish Muslims a happy Eid Mubarak or Ramadan and that's completely fine too.

It would be problematic if I expected others to wish my religious acts well but then not reciprocate. That would be hypocritical and over the top.

So just to clarify, if I am reading this right you believe that wishing someone a happy Christmas goes against your religion, and by extension presumably would hold some sort of consequence for you if you did so ?

The people at work, Muslim and Non-Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc, wish me a happy Christmas every year in the lead up to our days off on 25th and 26th December. Before reading this thread I wasn’t aware of there being a ruling or intellectual advice around not wishing people a happy Christmas in Islam.

In a country like the UK, my perception has usually been that these kinds of greetings and wishes were simply examples of common social behaviour between people at a particular time of year. Pointedly refusing to even engage in these brief exchanges with people you work with every day over a long period, yes I find that a bit over the top on a human level (sorry) including the examples from the atheists you mention and it’s not because of anyone’s core belief systems etc, it’s on a human level.
 
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I said to a whitey Happy Holidays in an email, he replied with Merry Christmas, not sure if he were racist or not [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] ? we get along well work wise so I give him benefit of the doubt
 
I said to a whitey Happy Holidays in an email, he replied with Merry Christmas, not sure if he were racist or not [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] ? we get along well work wise so I give him benefit of the doubt

Imo this is just an example of what I posted above eg “In a country like the UK, my perception has usually been that these kinds of greetings and wishes were simply examples of common social behaviour between people at a particular time of year” Imho it’s harmless.
 
So just to clarify, if I am reading this right you believe that wishing someone a happy Christmas goes against your religion, and by extension presumably would hold some sort of consequence for you if you did so ?

The people at work, Muslim and Non-Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc, wish me a happy Christmas every year in the lead up to our days off on 25th and 26th December. Before reading this thread I wasn’t aware of there being a ruling or intellectual advice around not wishing people a happy Christmas in Islam.

In a country like the UK, my perception has usually been that these kinds of greetings and wishes were simply examples of common social behaviour between people at a particular time of year. Pointedly refusing to even engage in these brief exchanges with people you work with every day over a long period, yes I find that a bit over the top on a human level (sorry) including the examples from the atheists you mention and it’s not because of anyone’s core belief systems etc, it’s on a human level.

That's correct, I believe that there are consequences of doing that. Just as there are for lying etc etc. Now this isn't a view held by all Muslims and that's fine, each person can decide for themselves (similar to when it comes to the Hijab)

There's absolutely no need to say sorry, you are entitled to hold a different viewpoint.

A final point regarding brief exchanges, I still get on well with my colleagues, we interact about families/football etc, there is no issue/animosity and in fact I'd argue the respect level is higher as a result of everyone being clear what is or isn't acceptable for each person.

I don't attend work parties due to alcohol being involved but there are Muslims that will do that because either they don't care or are not willing to stand up for their belief. I made it clear I won't attend such events but I also make it clear that I would never want them to not have such events as that is important to them.
 
That's correct, I believe that there are consequences of doing that. Just as there are for lying etc etc. Now this isn't a view held by all Muslims and that's fine, each person can decide for themselves (similar to when it comes to the Hijab)

There's absolutely no need to say sorry, you are entitled to hold a different viewpoint.

A final point regarding brief exchanges, I still get on well with my colleagues, we interact about families/football etc, there is no issue/animosity and in fact I'd argue the respect level is higher as a result of everyone being clear what is or isn't acceptable for each person.

I don't attend work parties due to alcohol being involved but there are Muslims that will do that because either they don't care or are not willing to stand up for their belief. I made it clear I won't attend such events but I also make it clear that I would never want them to not have such events as that is important to them.

Okay GA :)
 
So it isn't just football that your nonsense is restricted to

1) Not celebrating Christmas or wishing Christmas is akin to having a problem with Christians? Also you think this is a Christian nation?

2) The rituals of Christmas are rooted in paganism and the Christian doctrine has done nothing to change that, so the comparison is flawed.

3) Muslims don't celebrate the birth of Jesus (PBUH) or any other prophet so Irrelevant point yet again

4) Good thing betting is haram otherwise you'd lose your money.

5) Ah yes, an irrelevant guy in Newcastle has as much influence as the mass media. Islam would flourish further if it didn't have weak hearted Muslims from Brentford that feel they need to fit in and can't miss out on getting involved in secret santa.


This is actually true, at least we are getting somewhere. So now we have established that Christianity doesn't have much connection to Christmas celebrations, we should discuss whether putting up a tree with lights on it is actually an act of pagan worship on the part of Mo Salah.
 
This is actually true, at least we are getting somewhere. So now we have established that Christianity doesn't have much connection to Christmas celebrations, we should discuss whether putting up a tree with lights on it is actually an act of pagan worship on the part of Mo Salah.

Getting involved in pagan rituals is incompatible with Islam.

In your version of Islam that might be different but I'm subscribing to the mainstream and majority opinion.
 
It's an outright lie that Muslims do not celebrate/observe birthdays of Prophets - Mawlid an-Nabi - 12th Rabi' al-awwal - this day in the Islamic calendar should ring a few bells.
 
It's an outright lie that Muslims do not celebrate/observe birthdays of Prophets - Mawlid an-Nabi - 12th Rabi' al-awwal - this day in the Islamic calendar should ring a few bells.

I should have clarified this one, there is a difference of opinion on Mawlid being acceptable, it's not unanimous in being celebrated
 
Getting involved in pagan rituals is incompatible with Islam.

In your version of Islam that might be different but I'm subscribing to the mainstream and majority opinion.

I'm sure Mo Salah would say he subscribes to the mainstream and majority opinion as well. Not everyone is as well researched as yourself, I would guess 90% of Brits probably don't consider Christmas a pagan ritual.
 
Some of the views in this thread perfectly exemplify why there is a rise in Islamophobia around the globe.

I will go further and say these said posters probably have not read the Qu'ran in a language they understand.

There is a huge difference between people are Muslims because they were born into a Muslim family, and people are Muslim because they choose to be - and this thread demonstrates this fact, and the dangers/embrassment with the former.
 
My favourite part of Xmas used to be the Eastenders/OFAH specials, and TV viewings. I still remember buying the XMAS Radio Times and highlighting the TV shows I wanted to record on VHS! Ha! Those were the days!

Now I look forward to the mega discounts on PSN!

How times have changed!
 
Some of the views in this thread perfectly exemplify why there is a rise in Islamophobia around the globe.

I will go further and say these said posters probably have not read the Qu'ran in a language they understand.

There is a huge difference between people are Muslims because they were born into a Muslim family, and people are Muslim because they choose to be - and this thread demonstrates this fact, and the dangers/embrassment with the former.

Ah, another one of those that likes to partake in victim blaming
 
I should have clarified this one, there is a difference of opinion on Mawlid being acceptable, it's not unanimous in being celebrated

I do not celebrate Mawlid as Muhammad (PBUH), Sahabas, and first four Caliphs didn't celebrate it. There was nothing called Mawlid then. But, I understand some Muslims celebrate it and perhaps they have their own reasoning (backed by specific scholars).

I only celebrate Eid-ul-Fitr and Eid-ul-Adha.
 
I'm sure Mo Salah would say he subscribes to the mainstream and majority opinion as well. Not everyone is as well researched as yourself, I would guess 90% of Brits probably don't consider Christmas a pagan ritual.

If Salah wants to make the claim that celebrating Christmas is acceptable as it's mainstream and majority opinion then he doesn't have a clue (neither does anyone else that would make that claim)
 
I think as high profile Muslim and one who shows his faith in an outward manner, I don't think he should be tweeting these types of images.

Of course it depends on intent, if it's just to because you like the way the Christmas tree looks and want to make your home more festive then there is no harm in that.

However, it's best to avoid all doubt and not imitate the non-believer because otherwise you may end up in a slippery slope.

This is based on my Islamic knowledge but Allah knows best.
 
The thing with Islam is you have different schools of thought and they often differ in certain issues. Core of Islam is same for all though.

Hanafi school of thought tends to be a bit more liberal than other schools (Maliki, Shafi, and Hanbali). Hanbali seems to be the strictest.

At the end of the day, all four madhabs are valid and accepted by Sunni Muslims worldwide.
 
If Salah wants to make the claim that celebrating Christmas is acceptable as it's mainstream and majority opinion then he doesn't have a clue (neither does anyone else that would make that claim)

As far as I know, Salah hasn't made any claims about mainstream Islamic opinion re Christmas. He put up a tree with lights on it, probably because he thinks it looks nice. Which it does to be fair. Is he doing this knowing it is tied to some pagan ritual? I doubt it.

Does anyone know what the pagan ritual is supposed to signify by the way? We should probably educate ourselves.
 
As far as I know, Salah hasn't made any claims about mainstream Islamic opinion re Christmas. He put up a tree with lights on it, probably because he thinks it looks nice. Which it does to be fair. Is he doing this knowing it is tied to some pagan ritual? I doubt it.

Does anyone know what the pagan ritual is supposed to signify by the way? We should probably educate ourselves.

Pagan rituals include giving gifts. This is the bile we are being forced to believe by some in this thread. (Obviously its not).

The Xmas tree evolved from what was known as the Paradise tree (cue Adam and Eve). How this is linked to Paganism is beyond me.

Finally Santa Claus, an invention by Coca Cola, supposedly - adding weight to the notion xmas is now more about commercialism than religion.

Fun fact, Christians consider Easter to be the more religious festival, than xmas.
 
As far as I know, Salah hasn't made any claims about mainstream Islamic opinion re Christmas. He put up a tree with lights on it, probably because he thinks it looks nice. Which it does to be fair. Is he doing this knowing it is tied to some pagan ritual? I doubt it.

Does anyone know what the pagan ritual is supposed to signify by the way? We should probably educate ourselves.

I didn't say he made any claims, I was just responding to your comment of "I'm sure Mo Salah would say he subscribes to the mainstream and majority opinion as well."

Which is why I said IF he makes that claim that's its just not correct.

If you Google Christmas and Pagan rituals you will see various sources with articles explaining the various rituals.
 
The thing with Islam is you have different schools of thought and they often differ in certain issues. Core of Islam is same for all though.

Hanafi school of thought tends to be a bit more liberal than other schools (Maliki, Shafi, and Hanbali). Hanbali seems to be the strictest.

At the end of the day, all four madhabs are valid and accepted by Sunni Muslims worldwide.

And from what I recall all 4 are unanimous on this position but Sheikh Google Nafs think otherwise
 
I do not celebrate Mawlid as Muhammad (PBUH), Sahabas, and first four Caliphs didn't celebrate it. There was nothing called Mawlid then. But, I understand some Muslims celebrate it and perhaps they have their own reasoning (backed by specific scholars).

I only celebrate Eid-ul-Fitr and Eid-ul-Adha.

Out of interest, do you celebrate Christmas?
 
I don't know if this is true but there seems to be a connection between Christmas and Paganism. I have no way of verifying this and frankly I do not care as I am not a Christian. But, it is a fact there was no concept of Christmas among early Christians. It was added later on by Roman Empire.

Anyway, check by yourself:

Humans as a species love to take inspiration from different cultures, customs, and traditions, and believe it or not, Christmas is no different. If you thought those cosy traditions you knew and loved were just about celebrating Christmas, think again! Things like kissing under a mistletoe, carolling, wreaths, and even gift-giving were all aspects of pagan holidays that were adapted into Christmas celebrations in the early years.

Decorating trees, feasting with loved ones, hanging up socks by the fireplace, and drinking yourself silly are no different – they’re all a part of pagan history and sacred holidays. In fact, most of the cultural aspects we associate with Christmas are steeped in pagan roots.

Some pagan traditions that have become associated with Christmas:

Gift-giving,
The image of Santa Claus,
Christmas stockings,
Christmas carolling,
Decking the halls with holly, and
Decorating trees.

WHO WERE THE PAGANS?
First thing’s first, what do we mean when we say pagan? This is a sweeping term that encompasses anyone from the Romans to the Norse in Scandinavia. As Christianity spread through Europe in the early ADs, missionaries got to know a lot of different groups of people with varying religious systems and beliefs. All of these people and religions were lumped into the catch-all term of ‘pagan’.

Although Christians had the goal of spreading their religion across Europe, they were still quite fascinated by many of the customs and ways of the pagans. Clearly they were fascinated enough to pick up a few of those beliefs and traditions and adapt them as part of Christian celebrations!

THE WINTER SOLSTICE CELEBRATION
Keep reading and you’ll find that Christmas is inspired by traditions from the Romans, Celtics, Norse, Druids, and more (all pagan). At the time, all of these different groups shared one big celebration that just hapened to fall around Christmas time – the winter solstice. People living in the northern hemisphere celebrate winter solstice (or the shortest day of the year) smack bang in the middle of December, and this is why Christmas just so happened to fall around the same time as many existing pagan holidays.

The winter solstice was a huge part of pagan life. As they were primarily agricultural people, winter marked the end of the year’s harvest and the chance to enjoy the company of loved ones and rest from toiling the fields. Pagans could stop farming through the winter, and instead devoted themselves to worshipping their various gods and celebrating with those around them. As winter in the northern hemisphere tends to be a dark, cold, and hungry period of time, the winter solstice was celebrated to help keep people entertained and enjoy themselves until the sun rolled around again.

So, now that you have an idea of the background, let’s look at some pagan traditions that have become associated with Christmas.

1. GIFT-GIVING AND SATURNALIA
Not only is December a time to celebrate winter solstice, but between the 17th and 24th of the month, the Romans also celebrated Saturnalia. This was a pagan holiday in honour of the agricultural god, Saturn. Romans would spend the week of Saturnalia much like how we spend Christmas holidays today – feasting, drinking, giving gifts, and being joyful.

These days we fork out lots of money on Christmas gifts, but back then the Romans exchanged small gifts for the sake of good luck. The idea was to give a gift in the hope of bringing in a bountiful harvest the next year. Rather than have huge lists of gifts to give, the Romans also shared only one gift with one other person. Somewhere along the line, giving gifts for luck and prosperity became a multimillion dollar business… isn’t that funny?

2. SANTA’S IMAGE & CHRISTMAS STOCKINGS
Our current modern day image of Santa Claus, clad in red fur with a big white beard, was largely developed by Coca-Cola in the 1930s. But the idea of an old man giving gifts to children dates much earlier than that, back to the time of the pagans.

Father Christmas, otherwise known as St. Nicholas, was a patron saint of children, the poor, and prostitutes. Living around 4th century AD, St. Nicholas was a generous bishop who was known for giving gifts to the poor, sporting a big beard and a long cloak much like the Santa we know and love.

But even before St. Nicholas, there was another bearded old man called Odin. This diety was worshipped by early Germanic pagan tribes, traditionally portrayed as an old man with a long, white beard with an 8-legged horse called Sleipnir who he would ride through the skies (just like Santa’s reindeer). During the winter, kids would fill their booties with carrots and straw and leave them by the chimney for Sleipnir to feed on. Odin would fly by and reward the children with little presents in their booties, much like we do with Christmas stockings today.

The Santa Claus we all imagine in our heads today is a mish-mash of the generous St. Nicholas, the god Odin and Sleipnir, and Coca-Cola’s iconic red-dressed character.

3. CHRISTMAS CAROLS
While the carols we sing for Christmas are undeniably Christian, the tradition itself of going door-to-door singing to your neighbours comes from another pagan tradition called wassailing. The rather funny word comes from the Anglo-Saxon phrase of ‘waes hael’, translating to ‘good health’. Every year, wassailers would roam through their villages in small groups, singing loudly with the aim of banishing evil spirits and wishing good health to those around them.

No wassailing group was complete without their traditional drink on hand – made from mulled ale, curdled cream, roasted apples, eggs, spices, and sugar. In the 13th century, St. Francis took inspiration from these happy choirs and started the tradition of Christmas carolling.

4. KISSING UNDER A MISTLETOE
Ever wondered about the correlation between mistletoe and kissing? Well, funnily enough, the tradition goes all the way back to the pagans. Everyone from the Romans and Celts to the Druids and the Norse had a thing about mistletoe. It was considered to be a highly sacred plant, involved in several pagan rituals.

In the Roman world, mistletoe honoured the god Saturn. To keep him happy, they would perform fertility rituals underneath sprigs of mistletoe – yes, that’s exactly what it sounds like! We’ve certainly toned it down as far as mistletoes are considered, and left it with just a simple kiss – probably a good idea since family is always around.

In the world of the Druids, mistletoe symbolised peace and joy. In times of war, if enemies were to meet underneath woodland mistletoe then they would drop their weapons and form a truce until the next day. In a way, kissing is a form of truce…

5. DECKING THE HALLS WITH HOLLY
Mistletoe wasn’t the only sacred plant for pagans. Holly was another holy plant connected with the god Saturn. During the Saturnalia holiday, Romans made holly wreaths to exchange as gifts for good luck. At the time of Saturnalia, early Christians began to celebrate Christmas, however they were often persecuted for practicing their new religion. It was lucky that Christmas coincided with Saturnalia as it allowed Christians to harbour a cover for their Christmas celebrations.

To avoid detection and make it look like they were celebrating Saturnalia, Christians started hanging holly wreaths around their homes. This allowed them to recognise other Christians and still do something nice to celebrate their sacred holiday. Eventually, as pagans decreased, holly became a symbol of Christmas instead of Saturnalia.

6. CHRISTMAS TREE DECORATING
We sure have taken a lot of inspiration from the Romans, and tree decorating is just another borrowed tradition! Besides feasting, drinking, and exchanging gifts during Saturnalia, Romans also hung small metal ornaments on trees outside their homes. Each of these little ornaments represented a god, either Saturn or the family’s personal patron saint.

Early Germanic tribes practiced a similar tree decorating tradition, this time with fruits and candles to honour the god Odin throughout winter solstice. Christians seemed to have merged the tree decorating with ornaments, candles, and fruits to make Christmas tree decorating one extravagant tradition.

Reference: https://chefin.com.au/blog/these-6-... pagan holiday,giving gifts, and being joyful..
 
I didn't say he made any claims, I was just responding to your comment of "I'm sure Mo Salah would say he subscribes to the mainstream and majority opinion as well."

Which is why I said IF he makes that claim that's its just not correct.

If you Google Christmas and Pagan rituals you will see various sources with articles explaining the various rituals.

I googled it and apparently Christmas has some roots in winter solstace and has Roman and German influence. But that's the point, I had to google it. It's not common knowledge among your average Brit or westerner anywhere I would imagine. If it's a pagan ritual, it seems like there are not many pagans laying claim to it any more.
 
I googled it and apparently Christmas has some roots in winter solstace and has Roman and German influence. But that's the point, I had to google it. It's not common knowledge among your average Brit or westerner anywhere I would imagine. If it's a pagan ritual, it seems like there are not many pagans laying claim to it any more.

I am sure Christians don't mean it to be a Pagan festival. But, root of Christmas is quite interesting. It seems like it was started by Roman Empire and earlier Christians (first 200-300 years) didn't celebrate or acknowledge Christmas.
 
Why are you so rigid? You are the type of person who contributes massively to Islamophobia in the West.

Yes, I am sure I am responsible for the Islamophobia in the west. Not people, who commit atrocities in the name of Islam. Not the biased western media who dehumanises Muslims. No, it is my fault that there is islamophobia in the west.
 
Yes, I am sure I am responsible for the Islamophobia in the west. Not people, who commit atrocities in the name of Islam. Not the biased western media who dehumanises Muslims. No, it is my fault that there is islamophobia in the west.

Just ignore him. He called Mbappe and other black French players "African imports". That tells a lot about him.

Our religion needs the firmness to survive the onslaught of enemies. Despite all the Islamophobia and whatnot, it is the fastest growing religion in the world.

They want to extinguish the light of Allāh with their mouths, but Allāh will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it. (Al-Quran, As-Saf: 8)
 
Just ignore him. He called Mbappe and other black French players "African imports". That tells a lot about him.

Our religion needs the firmness to survive the onslaught of enemies. Despite all the Islamophobia and whatnot, it is the fastest growing religion in the world.

They want to extinguish the light of Allāh with their mouths, but Allāh will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it. (Al-Quran, As-Saf: 8)

Islam is the fastest growing religion, because majority of the Muslims are firm about their religion. Yes, we all sin , but at least we ain’t out here trying to change our religion.
 
12th Rabi' al-awwal is a national holiday in the majority of Muslim countries, including Pakistan.

Imagine that, Muslims must not celebrate birthdays, but Islamic nations get a day off on 12th Rabi' al-awwal!

This nonsense that 12th Rabi' al-awwal is not unanimous in the Islamic world is just that, nonsense, along with Muslims are not permitted to celebrate birthdays.

What a shocker! Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus [PBUH], and Muslims celebrate the birth of Mohammed [PBUH]!

Both are messengers of Allah!
 
Islam is the fastest growing religion, because majority of the Muslims are firm about their religion. Yes, we all sin , but at least we ain’t out here trying to change our religion.

Indeed.

Why do you think Christianity declined and is continuing to decline? It is due to their surrender to Godless groups. There seems to be an evil force in the background; they and their minions are doing things slowly and methodically. You can see it when you look at modern day societies. Look at the things that are being promoted nowadays.
 
Why would I celebrate Christmas?

I am a Muslim. Also, my post clearly states I only celebrate Eid-ul-Fitr and Eid-ul-Adha. Nothing else.

One poster mentioned that those who don't celebrate Christmas haven't read the Quran.

You seem quite educated so I thought I would check with you if maybe I had missed something.
 
Some of the most successful Islamic nations on earth right now, respect, and to a degree, celebrate, other religious festivals. UAE and Singapore being 2 examples. This is how Islam survives and is shown to be respectful - compared with some of the disrespectful, ignorant, and frankly extremist views, displayed by some users - which only help fuel Islamophobia.
 
On a side point, I find it utterly hilarious that some users believe saying Merry Xmas is akin to celebrating Xmas!

This is extremism for you in a nutshell.
 
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