More grains vs less grains vs wood density

[Hammermellet]

Hey guys, been learning a lot about the value of grains in a cricket bat lately. A lot to do with the perfect number of grains for pressing a cricket bat is about 12. The reason being that a grain is the driest part of a cricket bat and therefore also stiffer and stronger meaning that when you hit a ball you get less twist and vibration.

Less vibration meaning you get less power loss when transferring the power from the bat to the ball.

A good few examples of great bats with many grains would be bats like the laver and wood private bin. The GM original LE. The CA TRD 12000 plus and the SS Ton LE just to name a few. I've been talking a lot about this issue on a UK based forum and wanted to get a Pakistan view of this.

I'm aware that people have different opinions from different parts of the world and would like to get some opinions from you guys and I'm aware the the uk is not the only place cricket bats are made and not all the best bat makers are in the uk either.

Also what are your thoughts on willow origin. Is the uk grown English willow the best? What are your thought on the mysterious EWNA or the EWNI? And what have you heard about Canadian willow???

Are there and great bat makers in India / Pakistan that are worth mentioning. I'm sure the guy making the pro's bats is a genuine master. ( sachin, afraid, yuvi's, dhoni ) etc who have all been seen using an SS bat. Is there one guy at SS making these bats for the guy? I'm very intrigued by the bat making process in these countries as its a lot less glamorous than in the UK, NZ or AUS.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Cover Drive]

I once heard that when there was partition in 1947 most of the good/great batmakers stayed/went in/to Pakistan.

I don't know history of Pakistani brands unfortunately but CA head batmaker was very good (not sure if he still alive) and back in the days lots of players used CA bats such as Saeed Anwar, Inzamam, Brain Lara and tons of others.

AM and CA are related to each others as they are cousins (if I remember correctly) whereas AM make very very good bats but they don't have enough money like CA or MB.

MIDS go along way and from what I have heard back in the days MIDS bats were impeccable but later they were unseen which I guess is perhaps because there top batmaker etc died ?

The English Willow bats made in Pakistan is of UK ground English Willow which is shipped to Asia etc. You will often see head of CA, MBs etc visiting JS Wright to select there willows.

Canadian Willow, I don't think even exist I heard of it and it was one guy who spread rumour I believe.

The thing with players is that they get bats from all parts of worlds so they just use whatever fits them the best.

In summer I was at National Cricket Academy in Lahore, Pakistan and there I saw Pakistani players bat so there was this talented young batsman who had three bats in his bags and all three were of different manufacture, one being SS, one being CA and one being AS.

In India some companies like SG and one or two another companies have CNC machine from which bats are made whereas in Pakistan bats are handmade in the factories.

 

[Silencer]

How can you be so certain that those models mentioned by you will have more grains? Can't they have lesS?

 

[Hammermellet]

How can you be so certain that those models mentioned by you will have more grains? Can't they have lesS?

thanks CD for the info.

Silencer. there is no rule that says a bat should have a certain amount of grains. rather just a school of thought that is passed down from the master bat makers. James Laver is very respected around the world and he prefers pressing a bat with 12 straight evenly spaced grains as he can control the pressing more evenly.

I think that is a good benchmark to use when judging cricket bats.

now thats not to say a bat with less grains or more grains is not any good. I have a Laver with 23 grains and it was my best bat ever. i know a friend that has a $150 SS Ton elite with about 7 grains and he has scored many quality runs with it for our team and won many a game single hand-idly for us.

I am certain that these models have this many grains as i have done video reviews on all of them whilst holding them in my hands and have counted them myself. Sure you will fins many with less or more but i was not saying these are the only bats with many grains.

i have seen cheaper bats and more expensive bats with good amount of grains.

i hope this answers your question.

 

[mrk]

I had a Monty Bat ( Monty shop lahore ) with 5 grains and hugeee bat. It was 2.8 2.9 and its one of best bat i ever used.

 

[Hammermellet]

Yip. No one is saying 5 grain bats can't be good. The science behind a cricket bat is however this. The more grains the stronger the wood and the less vibration through the wood when striking the ball. When the bat vibrates you lose power in your stroke. So the less grains the more vibration. The more grains the less vibration. That's why more grains are better than less.

On the flip side more grains means the bat tends to start cracking on the grains quicker as the wood is driest on the grain. ( surface cracks however do not affect the performance of the bat ).

Bats with more grains also tend to be heavier, they are older and therefore have more strength and density.

Younger trees / bats have less grains and less density. Meaning bats can be very light and be very big profile.

Problem with this type of bat is it tends to break easier.

My "thought " is therefore the more grains means the bat has the chance of lasting longer. I would think actual longevity has then got a lot to do with the pressing as well as the quality of the wood. The denser the wood the longer it will last. Potentially.

CD, let me know if you agree with my statements or not!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[zeusky]

Yip. No one is saying 5 grain bats can't be good. The science behind a cricket bat is however this. The more grains the stronger the wood and the less vibration through the wood when striking the ball. When the bat vibrates you lose power in your stroke. So the less grains the more vibration. The more grains the less vibration. That's why more grains are better than less.

On the flip side more grains means the bat tends to start cracking on the grains quicker as the wood is driest on the grain. ( surface cracks however do not affect the performance of the bat ).

Bats with more grains also tend to be heavier, they are older and therefore have more strength and density.

Younger trees / bats have less grains and less density. Meaning bats can be very light and be very big profile.

Problem with this type of bat is it tends to break easier.

My "thought " is therefore the more grains means the bat has the chance of lasting longer. I would think actual longevity has then got a lot to do with the pressing as well as the quality of the wood. The denser the wood the longer it will last. Potentially.

CD, let me know if you agree with my statements or not!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Interesting points but I am not sure about bats with more grains lasting longer; as you yourself say that these are older willows and the general concept for a long time has been that bats with lesser grains normally last more and take longer to open up.

But of course, the pressing has a lot to do with it along with the density of the cleft.

 

[Hammermellet]

Hey zeusky, long time.

I think the real problem in this is that there are so many unknowns and unless TK or laver gets onto a forum and starts spilling the beans it will remain unknowns. There are so many variables it's difficult to call one of them the exact truth.

Eg. Wood age, wood moisture content. Wood density. Pressing technique, willow quality, grains, dryness, pod shaver etc etc etc.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Cover Drive]

Yip. No one is saying 5 grain bats can't be good. The science behind a cricket bat is however this. The more grains the stronger the wood and the less vibration through the wood when striking the ball. When the bat vibrates you lose power in your stroke. So the less grains the more vibration. The more grains the less vibration. That's why more grains are better than less.

On the flip side more grains means the bat tends to start cracking on the grains quicker as the wood is driest on the grain. ( surface cracks however do not affect the performance of the bat ).

Bats with more grains also tend to be heavier, they are older and therefore have more strength and density.

Younger trees / bats have less grains and less density. Meaning bats can be very light and be very big profile.

Problem with this type of bat is it tends to break easier.

My "thought " is therefore the more grains means the bat has the chance of lasting longer. I would think actual longevity has then got a lot to do with the pressing as well as the quality of the wood. The denser the wood the longer it will last. Potentially.

CD, let me know if you agree with my statements or not!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree with you on five grain bat in reply to mrk, I have this Powerbow 3 Star which has four grains but it pings and plays exceptionally well.

Anyways, coming onto you real part of your post

Clefts with more grains are basically older trees which are more stable and are higher in density which means stronger wood.

So what you said regarding tight grains that due to tightness of grains less energy is lost and less vibration in result is completely true.

If I remember correctly tighter grains mean stiffness/tightness and since they are high in density means that they will open up and reach peak much faster and quicker than less grain bat. Hence, it has a much shorter life span compared to a tight gran bat.

Yes, pressing for a tight grain bat is different to a loose grain one.

Yes, longevity do has a lot to do with pressing but then a tight grain bat is pressed differently compared to a loosen grain bat. I believe that regardless how a tight grain bat is pressed it will still open much quicker than a loosen grain bat and will have a shorter life span due to the aged and older wood.

And as for questions Jason, we have interview with Julian Millichamp so you can definitely fire in your question and ask Julian

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=140950

 

[zeusky]

The folks on another forum have been searching for the legendary one grainer for sometime now; I think someone posted about a bat having 2-3 grains. Again it comes down to the player at the end of it all---if you are a Inzi or Tendulkar you can pretty well belt the ball with the proverbial stick of rhubarb.

 

[Cover Drive]

Exactly, it has to do with player mate.

Many of our Asian players have played with Kashmiri Willow bats at some stage of there career (early part).