#GreenRoars
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Cook is a fantastic player but second to Warner. Match-winners over match-savers.
Warner was bullied in India to no end.
Cook has done well everywhere.
Warner hasn't played in India since his transformation.
He won't do well. He kept getting bowled by Kumar on the last tour, didn't even make it to Ashwin and the spin attack.
He did well against Yasir and Babar. India is a tougher tour because of the SG ball but I expect him to score.
He has to prove so in the next tour then. In the meantime, don't count your chickens before they hatch and say that he's transformed after pounding a few runs on Australian drop-ins.
Warner hasn't played in India since his transformation.
He played India in Australia after transformation.
Averaged 30 in Australia in our last tour in 2014/2015 in the games Ashwin played.
On COMPLETE PATTAS.
3 games.
Would have been CLOBBERED in India.
3 to Ashwin. 2 times to Yadav. 1 to Ishant.
Cook wins in Asia. By a mile.
Where is Ricky Ponting in this list?![]()
*
..nd Viv Richards?
His transformation started after the 2013 Ashes tour. He toured India as a raw opener.
I wasn't comparing them in Asia only but their overall impact. And I clarified why I prefer Warner.
Yes but those are stats in Australia after his 2013 transformation.
Against spin...he has that Watson like effect. Looks a million bucks but gets out.
Got your main point from your first post itself.
I'm not gonna judge based on stats in Australia. If he fails in India, I'll be the first to admit it.
Bhai let it go. There's a difference of class between Cook n him. Former has done well everywhere. Stop getting impressed by a few brisk knocks.
Cook is a fantastic player but second to Warner. Match-winners over match-savers.
Yes Warner can't play swing, seam or turn but miraculously scored 400+ runs in the Ashes. 6-7 of his dismissals were Warner getting himself out against Moeen or playing that stupid flick shot trying to run it down to fine leg. About 2-3 were due to swing and seam lol.Warner is a good shot-player on flat decks but is exposed against the swinging, seaming or turning ball.
Cook has a problem against quick stuff outside off-stump when the ball is moving but he is a very good player of spin.
I would argue that matches are not won by Warner anyway, because he does not really go on far past 100. You want a big innings.
Yes Warner can't play swing, seam or turn but miraculously scored 400+ runs in the Ashes. 6-7 of his dismissals were Warner getting himself out against Moeen or playing that stupid flick shot trying to run it down to fine leg. About 2-3 were due to swing and seam lol.
Can't play turn but somehow scored a ton against Yasir and Babar. He's yet to face India since tightening up his defense.
I would argue when Warner scores a ton there is no way back for the opposition to come back into the game and they play to draw the game from day 1. You know why I would argue that? Because I watched most of his tons and that's exactly what happened.
Hes been a bit exposed with his weakness to a shortish ball at his rib cage though to be honest. Fire one in there every so often and it won't take long for him to send one flying sky high.
Ponting was a flop player in Asia. He avgs. 23 in India. If say Sachin avgd. in mid 20s in Aust, people would have given him a lot of flak but surprised no one brings Ponting's credentials in Asia. This is the reason I always rate Ponting a notch below Sachin/Lara and put him on par with Dravid/Kallis.Where is Ricky Ponting in this list?![]()
Ponting was a flop player in Asia. He avgs. 23 in India. If say Sachin avgd. in mid 20s in Aust, people would have given him a lot of flak but surprised no one brings Ponting's credentials in Asia. This is the reason I always rate Ponting a notch below Sachin/Lara and put him on par with Dravid/Kallis.
Also check this funny irony, Sehwag avgs 40 in Aust but he is a FTB. Ponting avgs 23 in India but he is an ATG
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Ponting was a flop player in Asia. He avgs. 23 in India. If say Sachin avgd. in mid 20s in Aust, people would have given him a lot of flak but surprised no one brings Ponting's credentials in Asia. This is the reason I always rate Ponting a notch below Sachin/Lara and put him on par with Dravid/Kallis.
Also check this funny irony, Sehwag avgs 40 in Aust but he is a FTB. Ponting avgs 23 in India but he is an ATG
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Cook is a fantastic player but second to Warner. Match-winners over match-savers.
Over 60% of Cook's Test centuries have come in matches that England have won.
Sounds like a match-winner to me.
Yes Warner can't play swing, seam or turn but miraculously scored 400+ runs in the Ashes. 6-7 of his dismissals were Warner getting himself out against Moeen or playing that stupid flick shot trying to run it down to fine leg. About 2-3 were due to swing and seam lol.
400 runs in five tests is a good return bu three of those matches were on Aussie-style flatties offering no seam and turn, in warm days without much humidity to assist swing. So the FTB tag stands.
Plus, no long innings which were significant in forcing wins.
Cook on the other hand plays innings which result in wins and defensive shutouts too.
Not sure how this became warner vs cook, both have their place in test cricket as far as i can see but they really are too different to be comparable, from an aussie pov i would kill to have cook when going to asia i can say that for sure, you simply need somebody in the top 3 who can bat 3+ sessions if you are going to stay alive in a series in asia and we just don't have that.
The games you don't lose in asia are as vital as the ones you win.
Most centuries by an overseas player in India now.
The records keep on coming for Cook. What an incredible Test opener.
One of the great players of the modern era.
Cook is not the ideal opener. He's great against spin but mediocre against pace and someone like that shouldn't be opening the batting outside the subcontinent.
Cook is not the ideal opener. He's great against spin but mediocre against pace and someone like that shouldn't be opening the batting outside the subcontinent.
Yes he's incredible. However, the easy pitches he's mostly got has helped the cause.
In the UAE too, where he scored a double was a lifeless pitch. Anyways, not taking credit away from his ability to play spin, which is one of the better ones in the world right now.
Lmao what?
Is this guy for real? Did you type this out with a straight face?
Bilal may have exaggerated it like he always does.
But Cook is actually vulnerable against quality pacers just around the off stump. I know it's a clichéd statement for any batsman, but he actually pokes his bat out a lot outside off against quality pacers.
Who do you rate more in Tests? Cook / SRT?
Amla will give Cook a run for his money in Asia. He will feast on these Indian bowlers in Tests.
I think Amla has an amazing record overseas from around 2009.
Lmao what?
Is this guy for real? Did you type this out with a straight face?
I decided to see if Cook's played more games than others on the list. Here are the stats of batsmen relative to number of games played in Asia, and minus minnows. Ponting comes out looking the worse.
Cook
Number of innings in Asia minus minnows: 39
Average: 57
Number of tons: 7
Innings per ton: 5.5
Viv
Number of innings in Asia minus minnows: 38
Average: 44
Number of tons: 4
Innings per ton: 9.5
Border
Number of innings in Asia minus minnows: 39
Average: 54
Number of tons: 6
Innings per ton: 6.5
Amla
Number of innings in Asia minus minnows: 35
Average: 54
Number of tons: 7
Innings per ton: 5
Kallis
Number of innings in Asia minus minnows: 41
Average: 57
Number of tons: 8
Innings per ton: 5.1
Lara
Number of innings in Asia minus minnows: 26
Average: 58.8
Number of tons: 5
Innings per ton: 5.2
Ponting
Number of innings in Asia minus minnows: 45
Average: 39
Number of tons: 4
Innings per ton: 11.25
I expect Cook to hit one or two more tons by the time this latest series is over.
10,000+ runs, 30 centuries and won his team series in India and Australia with his batting, while leading them to a series win as captain in South Africa.
All of this before the age of 32. What a career he has had, and he still has plenty of years left.
Look at his record and stats, then decide if he's not an ideal opener.
Agreed. Love to see Cook haters served humble pies time after time. People were so angry with him leading up to our English tour because of the comments he made on Amir that he'd have to deal with crowd reactions, which was right.
You'd see folks saying "hope Amir demolishes him" and other things. But that series was the most fluent I've seen him play in a while.
Same thing here.
On the path to greatness.
IMO Cook is overrated - not as an opener but as a batsman in general.
His stats are good but not great by any means - esp his average of 47.12 which is even below KP's test average.
Now I understand that cricket is not played on Excel but when his contemporaries have played just as many good knocks and some, in fact, even better - it is hard to argue Cook's case for being an ATG.
Not in Sachin, Lara, Ponting, Kallis or Sanga's category for sure. His less than stellar ODI record also pushes him down a notch.
Certainly a modern day great opener but not ATG imo. Many of his records are now based on longevity...
Second to Warner, someone who lacks the fundamental skill and fight of a Test batsman - battling it out for long periods of time, his inability to occupy the crease was a big problem for Australia in the Ashes.
No opener of the last 10 years is even comparable to Cookie Monster, except for Smith who is obviously better at this point, but the former has the time on his side to overtake him.
Warner can compete if he conquers England in England and India in India like Cookie Monster, so far the highlight of his career is runs in South Africa over three Tests.
He has failed in India, England and even on the dry and sticky wickets of the Caribbean. He did well in the UAE but based on one innings only.
To put them in same sentence as of today is frankly a joke.
I think both represent too extremes - Warner is the most overrated non-Pakistani cricketer on PakPassion, while Cookie Monster is definitely the most underrated.
Taking a page from your book here.
Since most of the fans from Asia care about ODI World Cup more than test cricket, therefore, Warner is rated higher than Cook because he was a part of 2015 World Cup winning team. On the other hand Cook's legacy is getting dropped right before the World Cup because he was not good enough to be on the team.
In Asia it's a no-contest, Cook by far over Warner.
Outside of Asia I would pick Warner everywhere.
His stats are good but not great by any means - esp his average of 47.12 which is even below KP's test average.
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Average of 47 for an opener is as good as a 50+ average for a middle-order batsman. Compare the number of 50+ averaging openers in history to the number of 50+ averaging middle-order batsmen and you will get your answer.
On top of that, he plays more than half of his Tests in England which is the toughest place to open, which is why his away average is actually higher than his home average.
He is not overrated at all; he is a master batsman who is one of the best Test openers of all time, and perhaps the fittest cricketer too. He has played 130+ Tests in 10 years and is never injured and still manages to bat for longer periods than anyone else and has the best powers of concentration.
Yes not playing much Limited Overs cricket has helped, but playing 130+ Tests in 10 years is no mean feat. His record in SA and NZ is poor, but everyone is allowed a bogey venue/team or two. He would definitely have had a 50+ career average if he was a number 3 or number 4, but he can still get there if he has a really big year again.
His 85 in the 5th test was against a potent opening spell where the ball swung wildly beating the bat countless times. It was a wonderful display of excellent technique from Warner and Rogers. The 100+ opening stand laid the platform for Smith to score his 100 whom otherwise would've been back in the pavilion had Warner or Rogers been dismissed cheaply. Australia would've bundled for 250 again and England would've won 4-1.
I watched all 5 matches, the only flat pitch was Lords. It seamed in every other match. And I've never seen the Dukes ball swing so wildly throughout a series in the last 10 years. I don't know what Ashes you were watching.
Warner outscored Cook in his own backyard so if the former is an FTB then what does that make Cook? Lol. And that's game ladies and gentlemen.
He doesn't play T20s and rarely plays ODIs. His fitness is excellent but his workload is low compared to others who play all 3 formats.
I would pick Warner only a proper flat track with pace and bounce. If there is some spin, swing or seam, he's useless.
He's the biggest flat track bully in the world, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It makes him the most dangerous match-winner on flat wickets and we get a lot of them. In some ways, he's like a poor man's Sehwag.
Cook's attritional style is a bit of a hindrance on flat wickets, but he's a classical opener who just bats and bats for days.