Mother’s love compels Kashmiri footballer who joined Lashkar-e-Toiba to return home [Update Post#13]

[WebGuru]

Mother’s love compels Kashmiri footballer who joined Lashkar-e-Toiba to return home [Update Post#13]

A top footballer of Indian-occupied Kashmir has taken up arms to liberate his land from the clutches of India.

Majid Irshad Khan, 20, a district-level footballer of Anantnag in the southern part of held-Kashmir, joined the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba a few days ago. Majid was a a second-year under-graduate commerce student at the Government Boys’ Degree College, Anantnag.

He is a renowned footballer of the town and had passed class 10 and 12 board examinations with high scores, according to Hindustan Times.

Majid’s friend, Yawar Nisar, joined the Hizbul Mujahideen in July this year and was martyred in an encounter with the Indian security forces on August 3.

Majid announced his decision by posting a picture on Facebook holding an AK-47 that went viral on social networking sites. “Why look up at the stars when the biggest star is me,” he wrote in the post.

Family and friends say Majid was also working with a humanitarian organisation as a volunteer and emergency head.

Before he picked up a gun, Majid had made a name for himself as the goalkeeper of an Anantnag-based cricket and football club which he joined when he was in the ninth class.

“Everyone knows Majid. He was one of the best goalkeepers Anantnag district has produced,” said an official of the club. He has known Majid for six years now.

The official played a video on his smartphone in which Majid is a goalkeeper during a penalty shootout. “In this match, about a month earlier, Majid saved three goals,” he added.

Many believe the death of his close friend Yawar Nisar was a turning point in Majid’s life.

“The difference between the present day militancy and the one that existed in the early 1990s is that the ideological conviction of the present generation is far more superior,” a top police official said.

Source: https://tribune.com.pk/story/155929...mirs-football-star-joins-separatist-movement/

 

[Madplayer]

People compared him to ben stokes in terms of looks.

His parents are devastated because he is the only kid (boy?) in their family. His mother has appealed to convince him to come back. This occupation is destroying our kids and youth. Really hope he could somehow turn it around and go back to his mother who needs him more than anyone else.

 

[troodon]

Hope he doesn't die.

 

[troodon]

People compared him to ben stokes in terms of looks.

His parents are devastated because he is the only kid (boy?) in their family. His mother has appealed to convince him to come back. This occupation is destroying our kids and youth. Really hope he could somehow turn it around and go back to his mother who needs him more than anyone else.

Occupation is not destroying. Indian forces did not ask him to join those outfits.

He was clearly brainwashed into this by some people. It is those people that are destroying the youth.

 

[Varun]

People compared him to ben stokes in terms of looks.

His parents are devastated because he is the only kid (boy?) in their family. His mother has appealed to convince him to come back. This occupation is destroying our kids and youth. Really hope he could somehow turn it around and go back to his mother who needs him more than anyone else.

Do you live in Kashmir? Which part of the state?

 

[WebGuru]

Occupation is not destroying. Indian forces did not ask him to join those outfits.

He was clearly brainwashed into this by some people. It is those people that are destroying the youth.

Many believe the death of his close friend Yawar Nisar was a turning point in Majid’s life.

The young footballer at his friend Yawar Nisar’s funeral.

“The difference between the present day militancy and the one that existed in the early 1990s is that the ideological conviction of the present generation is far more superior,” a top police official said.

 

[troodon]

Many believe the death of his close friend Yawar Nisar was a turning point in Majid’s life.

The young footballer at his friend Yawar Nisar’s funeral.

“The difference between the present day militancy and the one that existed in the early 1990s is that the ideological conviction of the present generation is far more superior,” a top police official said.

He was a soft target for the propaganda sources. He was mentally, emotionally down and he wanted some answers for his best friends death. He got the answer from the wrong sources. Now he is a militant too.

 

[Madplayer]

Do you live in Kashmir? Which part of the state?

Srinagar.

On topic, the kid has reportedly surrendered after his mother's appeal went viral. I hope he is allowed to live a normal life now bit we all know he would be cornered by more than 1 elements. Wish him well.

 

[Hornbill]

Kashmir footballer-turned-militant Majid Khan surrenders before forces

Sources said that Khan, an ace footballer, surrendered before 1RR of army last night around 10:30 pm. He was later handed over to Victor Force, based in Awantipora.
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/...jid-khan-surrenders-before-forces/266284.html

Despite losing a soldier security forces allowed four militants to surrender in last 48 hours.

 

[Madplayer]

He was a soft target for the propaganda sources. He was mentally, emotionally down and he wanted some answers for his best friends death. He got the answer from the wrong sources. Now he is a militant too.

There are no right or wrong sources here. Your definitions of right or wrong dont work in this part of the world. This place is not normal. Living consistently under a gun is not normal. Losing your friends, family and close ones at the drop of a hat is not normal. Having to prove to outsiders at every nook and corner day in day out that you are not a terrorist is not normal. The psychological impact it has had on us since decades is unimaginable to you because you have not lived through this. Neither have your previous 3 generations. You have never been in the position some of us find ourselves in so your philosophical lecturing doesnt make sense to us.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The psychological impact it has had on us since decades is unimaginable to you because you have not lived through this. Neither have your previous 3 generations. You have never been in the position some of us find ourselves in so your philosophical lecturing doesnt make sense to us.

Well said. This is something the idiots don't understand and see things from their privileged vantage points.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Simple solution. Make Kashmir valley and Chenab valley a part of Pakistan.

This would end the situation once and for all.

 

[UN talkz]

Mother’s love compels Kashmiri footballer who joined armed struggle to return home


Majid Irshad Khan, a top footballer of Indian-occupied Kashmir (IoK) who recently took up arms to liberate the disputed valley from India, has returned home after listening to his mother’s appeal.

In a video that went viral on social media, Ashiya Begum, Majid’s mother, can be seen distraught and in tears, urging her son to come back, BBC Urdu reported.

“I am waiting for him to come back. I want him to return home and play football again,” his mother said in the video.

His father was also admitted to a hospital after he suffering a mild stroke on Tuesday.

On Friday morning, Majid went to a security camp and turned himself in.

Some media reports quoted the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, the separatist organisation Majid had joined, as saying that it had itself allowed him to return to his mother after hearing her appeal.

A district-level footballer of Anantnag in the southern part of held-Kashmir, Majid joined the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba a few days ago. He was a second-year under-graduate commerce student at the Government Boys’ Degree College, Anantnag.

Majid broke the news about his joining the group through a picture on Facebook holding an AK-47 that went viral on social networking sites. “Why [to] look up at the stars when the biggest star is me,” he wrote in his post.

The 20-year-old is a renowned footballer of the town and had passed class 10 and 12 board examinations with high scores.

Two months prior to taking up arms against Indian security forces in Kashmir, Majid’s friend, Yawar Nisar, who joined the Hizbul Mujahideen in July this year, was martyred in an encounter with the forces on August 3.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/156098...sting-majid-irshad-khans-surrender-iok/?amp=1

 

[Pakistanian]

Kashmiris should be given the right to form their own country like Catalonia and Kurdistan are trying to do. India won't even lose much by freeing Kashmir.

 

[troodon]

Right decision.

 

[Syed1]

Kashmiris should be given the right to form their own country like Catalonia and Kurdistan are trying to do. India won't even lose much by freeing Kashmir.

It will happen eventually.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Kashmiris should be given the right to form their own country like Catalonia and Kurdistan are trying to do. India won't even lose much by freeing Kashmir.

The pre 1947 state of Jammu and Kashmir consists of:-

- Gilgit Baltistan- pro Pakistan
- Azad Kashmir- pro Pakistan
- Kashmir valley (what people commonly call Kashmir)- pro independence and pro Pakistan
- Chenab valley (Muslim areas of Jammu)- pro Pakistan
- Other parts of Jammu- pro India
- Ladakh- pro India.

It's not as simple as giving the valley its own country although it might work.

 

[Snak3eye5]

The pre 1947 state of Jammu and Kashmir consists of:-

- Gilgit Baltistan- pro Pakistan
- Azad Kashmir- pro Pakistan
- Kashmir valley (what people commonly call Kashmir)- pro independence and pro Pakistan
- Chenab valley (Muslim areas of Jammu)- pro Pakistan
- Other parts of Jammu- pro India
- Ladakh- pro India.

It's not as simple as giving the valley its own country although it might work.

If only life were so simple that India just decides to hand off Kashmir and everything would just be hunk dory after that huh ? Lets just pretend for the sake of arguement that Indian government themselves are sick and tired of the Kashmir issue and hands the disputed territory to Pakistan. Whats next..?

Once Kashmir is handed over do you honestly think Pakistan is not going to ask for something else..?
Do we think the rest of India is going to be ok with that ?
Whats then going to happen to the non muslims in Kashmir once the handover occurs ? We all know what happened to the Kashmir Pandits..You can take a wild guess there..
The people of Kashmir that want to stay with India, what about them ?
Today the radical elements coming into Kashmir fom neighbouring countries are kept in check by India. Whats to stop them from entering Arunachal or Utharakand once Kashmir is handed over to Pakistan...
What about about Lakshadweep, which has a 96% Muslim population, should that also be given independence from India?
Should the arguement then hold that all minority religions (christians, jews, sikhs, etc) in India have its own state ?
Should the sikhs of Punjab then be given its own state. Should Indians then also hand over Aksai chin back to China without any dispute also ?
Should the sacrifices of Indian soldiers that died during the wars fought in Kargil and others be in vain ?

The identity of India being a secular democracy ceases to exist after this so called handover.
I agree India should be handing over Kashmir or giving Kashmir independance if it were treating the kashmiris as second class citizens but instead Kashmir is a part of India just as all the other states. The arguement that Pakistan should take back Kashmir only because its a a majority muslim domain or it thinks that Kashmiri folks are not happy is false propaganda.

If Kashmiris are truly unhappy or going through some mass genocide why don't they just leave or ask for refugee status in some other neighbouring country ? Surely they are seeing something in India which is why they are staying ?

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

If only life were so simple that India just decides to hand off Kashmir and everything would just be hunk dory after that huh ? Lets just pretend for the sake of arguement that Indian government themselves are sick and tired of the Kashmir issue and hands the disputed territory to Pakistan. Whats next..?

Once Kashmir is handed over do you honestly think Pakistan is not going to ask for something else..?
Do we think the rest of India is going to be ok with that ?
Whats then going to happen to the non muslims in Kashmir once the handover occurs ? We all know what happened to the Kashmir Pandits..You can take a wild guess there..
The people of Kashmir that want to stay with India, what about them ?
Today the radical elements coming into Kashmir fom neighbouring countries are kept in check by India. Whats to stop them from entering Arunachal or Utharakand once Kashmir is handed over to Pakistan...
What about about Lakshadweep, which has a 96% Muslim population, should that also be given independence from India?
Should the arguement then hold that all minority religions (christians, jews, sikhs, etc) in India have its own state ?
Should the sikhs of Punjab then be given its own state. Should Indians then also hand over Aksai chin back to China without any dispute also ?
Should the sacrifices of Indian soldiers that died during the wars fought in Kargil and others be in vain ?

The identity of India being a secular democracy ceases to exist after this so called handover.
I agree India should be handing over Kashmir or giving Kashmir independance if it were treating the kashmiris as second class citizens but instead Kashmir is a part of India just as all the other states. The arguement that Pakistan should take back Kashmir only because its a a majority muslim domain or it thinks that Kashmiri folks are not happy is false propaganda.

If Kashmiris are truly unhappy or going through some mass genocide why don't they just leave or ask for refugee status in some other neighbouring country ? Surely they are seeing something in India which is why they are staying ?

You don't get it!

Why should Kashmiris leave when India is occupying our land?

We don't see it as a part of India. We want our right to self determination that India promised. Pakistan and Kashmiris agree that self determination is the way forward!

Aksai chin isn't yours lol.

Another point: Kashmir is under UN umbrella unlike Lakshadweep!

Go India go leave our Kashmir!!!

 

[TM Riddle]

There are no right or wrong sources here. Your definitions of right or wrong dont work in this part of the world. This place is not normal. Living consistently under a gun is not normal. Losing your friends, family and close ones at the drop of a hat is not normal. Having to prove to outsiders at every nook and corner day in day out that you are not a terrorist is not normal. The psychological impact it has had on us since decades is unimaginable to you because you have not lived through this. Neither have your previous 3 generations. You have never been in the position some of us find ourselves in so your philosophical lecturing doesnt make sense to us.

I agree . This forcing Kashmiris under gun just cannot work. Govt should look for other alternatives?

 

[TM Riddle]

You don't get it!

Why should Kashmiris leave when India is occupying our land?

We don't see it as a part of India. We want our right to self determination that India promised. Pakistan and Kashmiris agree that self determination is the way forward!

Aksai chin isn't yours lol.

Another point: Kashmir is under UN umbrella unlike Lakshadweep!

Go India go leave our Kashmir!!!

Kashmir belongs to India , has always been and always will be. Historically it has been part of India having two of most important pilgrimage sites of Hinduism , Vaishno devi and Amarnath.
You can repeat this over thousand times on here. Nothings gonna change.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Kashmir belongs to India , has always been and always will be. Historically it has been part of India having two of most important pilgrimage sites of Hinduism , Vaishno devi and Amarnath.
You can repeat this over thousand times on here. Nothings gonna change.

Kashmir valley that's independent or part of Pakistan will allow Hindus to visit.

Nothing supports the illegal Indian occupation.

 

[JaDed]

Kashmir valley that's independent or part of Pakistan will allow Hindus to visit.

Nothing supports the illegal Indian occupation.

Thanks for having a bigger heart,offer is same to you,you will be allowed to visit Kashmir in future and it will be part of India.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Thanks for having a bigger heart,offer is same to you,you will be allowed to visit Kashmir in future and it will be part of India.

Indian government is insincere on Kashmir.

I have visited India and it is amazing.

Only issue I have is Indian government treatment of Kashmiris and its occupation.

 

[Pakistanian]

Kashmir belongs to India , has always been and always will be. Historically it has been part of India having two of most important pilgrimage sites of Hinduism , Vaishno devi and Amarnath.
You can repeat this over thousand times on here. Nothings gonna change.

Dude no country can forever lie claim to a land, that isn't democratic or civil. Let the native people of Kashmir decide if they want to be independent or be part of the Indian union

 

[TM Riddle]

Dude no country can forever lie claim to a land, that isn't democratic or civil. Let the native people of Kashmir decide if they want to be independent or be part of the Indian union

Kashmir is India's personal affair and we shall manage it any way we wish. Stop meddling in our affairs.

 

[Syed1]

Kashmir belongs to India , has always been and always will be. Historically it has been part of India having two of most important pilgrimage sites of Hinduism , Vaishno devi and Amarnath.
You can repeat this over thousand times on here. Nothings gonna change.

How can you claim some piece of land will forever lie with India. Heck the India as we know it today didn't even exist 70 years ago. Before the British there was no "unified India".... there was no such thing as United States of America just 240 odd years ago. Heck Canada didn't exist 150 years ago.

So how can you claim that a piece of land will be called one country for the rest of history when throughout human history countries have been forming and disintegrating into other countries.

 

[Syed1]

Kashmir is India's personal affair and we shall manage it any way we wish. Stop meddling in our affairs.

It's not your personal affair. It is disputed territory.

Then why does your chai wala have a problem with CPEC passing through Pakistani side of Kashmir.

 

[Snak3eye5]

You don't get it!

Why should Kashmiris leave when India is occupying our land?

We don't see it as a part of India. We want our right to self determination that India promised. Pakistan and Kashmiris agree that self determination is the way forward!

Aksai chin isn't yours lol.

Another point: Kashmir is under UN umbrella unlike Lakshadweep!

Go India go leave our Kashmir!!!

You almost make it look like India is obsessed with Kashmir. I told you the obvious reasons earlier that India can't just handover Kashmir because of the chaos that will ensue in India due to the aftermath. It's not simple. If we take a trip down memory lane, India was asked to come by the Kashmir king to come protect his people from being looted and murdered by a certain country and hence willingly asked to be a part of India. Not making anything up here.

Also if one were to think logically Kashmir if it were independent cannot stand on its two feet. Let's be honest here. It's not like Kashmir is sitting on a landmine of oil or diamonds. If it decides to join with Pakistan then it's going to be one big dice roll whether Pakistan cares enough for the Kashmir people when it solely depends on China for its survival. It's not going to get any handouts from India for obvious reasons. It's most likely going to end up as a city with a lot of civil unrest and be a bigger problem for both India and Pakistan..... India is trying to help by not allowing that to happen. Even if it means going against the will of the Kashmiri people.

 

[TM Riddle]

How can you claim some piece of land will forever lie with India. Heck the India as we know it today didn't even exist 70 years ago. Before the British there was no "unified India".... there was no such thing as United States of America just 240 odd years ago. Heck Canada didn't exist 150 years ago.

So how can you claim that a piece of land will be called one country for the rest of history when throughout human history countries have been forming and disintegrating into other countries.

Republic of India came into existence 70 years ago but for centuries this entire region has been known as India with Kashmir being geographically and culturally part of this land and the empires which rose and form here.
Besides legally Kashmir belongs to India according to the treaty of instrument of accession , so there you have it.

 

[Pakistanian]

Kashmir is India's personal affair and we shall manage it any way we wish. Stop meddling in our affairs.

Occupation and tyranny aren't 'personal affairs'. Once a crime is committed it no longer becomes a 'personal affair'. This personal affair card is also used by abusive families to justify domestic violence and child abuse.

You can't go on murdering and raping and then claim immunity cause it's "personal affairs"!

 

[Pakistanian]

Republic of India came into existence 70 years ago but for centuries this entire region has been known as India with Kashmir being geographically and culturally part of this land and the empires which rose and form here.
Besides legally Kashmir belongs to India according to the treaty of instrument of accession , so there you have it.

India was always considered more of region than country, it's like Europe or Scandinavia Kashmir leaving the India union is just like Brexit or even like the Republic of Ireland leaving the UK.

 

[Pakistanian]

You almost make it look like India is obsessed with Kashmir. I told you the obvious reasons earlier that India can't just handover Kashmir because of the chaos that will ensue in India due to the aftermath. It's not simple. If we take a trip down memory lane, India was asked to come by the Kashmir king to come protect his people from being looted and murdered by a certain country and hence willingly asked to be a part of India. Not making anything up here.

Also if one were to think logically Kashmir if it were independent cannot stand on its two feet. Let's be honest here. It's not like Kashmir is sitting on a landmine of oil or diamonds. If it decides to join with Pakistan then it's going to be one big dice roll whether Pakistan cares enough for the Kashmir people when it solely depends on China for its survival. It's not going to get any handouts from India for obvious reasons. It's most likely going to end up as a city with a lot of civil unrest and be a bigger problem for both India and Pakistan..... India is trying to help by not allowing that to happen. Even if it means going against the will of the Kashmiri people.

Yeah lol like India's invasion of Hyderabad against the wishes of their King. India has no altruistic motives in Kashmir, if it did then it would leave right now.

 

[Madplayer]

Kashmir belongs to India , has always been and always will be. Historically it has been part of India having two of most important pilgrimage sites of Hinduism , Vaishno devi and Amarnath.
You can repeat this over thousand times on here. Nothings gonna change.

Not good logic. Hinduism is not equal to India. Malaysia, Indonesia, and some of the east Asian countries has massive hindu temples in them, you can't claim them to be part of India. As other poster has mentioned already, Hind(the subcontinent and some neighbouring countries) was always considered a region historically, not one nation or even one kingdom. Kashmir had separate and a lot of times independent kingdoms ruling over it in previous centuries. These include Buddhist, Hindu, muslim and sikh kingdoms.

Just to add an interesting point, The Amarnath cave was forgotten by everyone but rediscovered by a Kashmiri shepherd in the 15th century.

 

[TM Riddle]

Not good logic. Hinduism is not equal to India. Malaysia, Indonesia, and some of the east Asian countries has massive hindu temples in them, you can't claim them to be part of India. As other poster has mentioned already, Hind(the subcontinent and some neighbouring countries) was always considered a region historically, not one nation or even one kingdom. Kashmir had separate and a lot of times independent kingdoms ruling over it in previous centuries. These include Buddhist, Hindu, muslim and sikh kingdoms.

Just to add an interesting point, The Amarnath cave was forgotten by everyone but rediscovered by a Kashmiri shepherd in the 15th century.

It had been unified by several empires in a single entity several times in the past therefore calling it a region similar to Europe is untrue speaks volumes about a person's knowledge.
It doesn't matter when it was rediscovered or by whom for that matter , it remains one of the most visited and important pilgrimage centre for hindus. The message of Islam was also lost for centuries before the arrival of the final prophet , if we go by your logic.
Anyway this topic has already been discussed to death here and therefore there is no point repeating the same old facts again and again. IMO Indian govt schould change its current policy regarding Kashmiris with more emphasis on talks and peaceful resolutions of many grievances of the people of the valley. Hopefully one day we will see a large scale demilitarization of the region and it would return to it's peaceful old self of 60s and 70s with no militancy and economy thriving like it used to before.

 

[Pakistanian]

It had been unified by several empires in a single entity several times in the past therefore calling it a region similar to Europe is untrue speaks volumes about a person's knowledge.
It doesn't matter when it was rediscovered or by whom for that matter , it remains one of the most visited and important pilgrimage centre for hindus. The message of Islam was also lost for centuries before the arrival of the final prophet , if we go by your logic.
Anyway this topic has already been discussed to death here and therefore there is no point repeating the same old facts again and again. IMO Indian govt schould change its current policy regarding Kashmiris with more emphasis on talks and peaceful resolutions of many grievances of the people of the valley. Hopefully one day we will see a large scale demilitarization of the region and it would return to it's peaceful old self of 60s and 70s with no militancy and economy thriving like it used to before.

So India should continue the occupation and genocide of Kashmir just for the sake history?!? That's an idiotic reason for colonialism.

 

[Madplayer]

It had been unified by several empires in a single entity several times in the past therefore calling it a region similar to Europe is untrue speaks volumes about a person's knowledge.
It doesn't matter when it was rediscovered or by whom for that matter , it remains one of the most visited and important pilgrimage centre for hindus. The message of Islam was also lost for centuries before the arrival of the final prophet , if we go by your logic.
Anyway this topic has already been discussed to death here and therefore there is no point repeating the same old facts again and again. IMO Indian govt schould change its current policy regarding Kashmiris with more emphasis on talks and peaceful resolutions of many grievances of the people of the valley. Hopefully one day we will see a large scale demilitarization of the region and it would return to it's peaceful old self of 60s and 70s with no militancy and economy thriving like it used to before.

Can you quote any examples to show how several empires unified India into a single entity and didnt leave out any states of current day India? Just for my personal knowledge.

Secondly, if you want peace like 60s in Kashmir, then J&K needs to have complete autonomy with its own President and prime minister. Indians would require visa to visit J&K. All the things which India cunningly changed after 1965 to exert its control on J&K.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Secondly, if you want peace like 60s in Kashmir, then J&K needs to have complete autonomy with its own President and prime minister. Indians would require visa to visit J&K. All the things which India cunningly changed after 1965 to exert its control on J&K.

Why can't we have visa on arrival?

 

[TM Riddle]

Can you quote any examples to show how several empires unified India into a single entity and didnt leave out any states of current day India? Just for my personal knowledge.

Secondly, if you want peace like 60s in Kashmir, then J&K needs to have complete autonomy with its own President and prime minister. Indians would require visa to visit J&K. All the things which India cunningly changed after 1965 to exert its control on J&K.

The mauryans and mughals had almost the whole subcontinent under their rule , sure there were couple of regions that were outside their domain but that hardly constitutes around 5 percent and therefore can be ignored. Geographically and culturally this whole area was known as India as attested by accounts of Greeks and Parthians and the people of this region as Hindu. The concept of nation states is barely a couple of centuries old and therefore the argument that the nation of India didn't exist before 1947 is a moot one and doesn't hold any water. Your own state is named after Kashyapa , a famous sage of Vedic times and king of Kashmir took part in the Mahabharata war that happened around 3000 BC.
Your opinion on this dont matter zilch to us Abdul. You don't represent every Kashmiri and your love for Pakistan is well known on this forum. I would be happy to deport you across the border if given the authority. In a proper way of course and not by tying in front of a jeep , thats only for terrorists and I kinda like you despite your secessionist thoughts.

 

[Madplayer]

Why can't we have visa on arrival?

You should. I would advocate it.

 

[Madplayer]

The mauryans and mughals had almost the whole subcontinent under their rule , sure there were couple of regions that were outside their domain but that hardly constitutes around 5 percent and therefore can be ignored

.

Easy for you to say ignore it when massive chunks of south India and even almost 30% of Kashmir wasnt under Mauryans at their peak. And quite convenient of you to use the mughal empire here. Were they also hindus?.

Geographically and culturally this whole area was known as India as attested by accounts of Greeks and Parthians and the people of this region as Hindu. The concept of nation states is barely a couple of centuries old and therefore the argument that the nation of India didn't exist before 1947 is a moot one and doesn't hold any water. Your own state is named after Kashyapa , a famous sage of Vedic times and king of Kashmir took part in the Mahabharata war that happened around 3000 BC

.

It is not a moot point at all when it hardly ever was one single unit. Just a collection of different kingdoms ruling these lands and fighting each other. For convenience, the old historians called it hind because of geographical realities like Indus river. The concept of nation states is barely a couple of centuries old but its definitions could be applied to older empires to see how much of a single entity on the line of modern nation states those empires were. Infact that makes your claim of one single India throughout its history even more weak.

Kashyapa having fought in a mythical war has nothing to do with India's claim on Kashmir. Its just clutching at straws.

Your opinion on this dont matter zilch to us Abdul.

Who the hell is Abdul now? Perhaps you are confusing me with some other friend of yours.

You don't represent every Kashmiri and your love for Pakistan is well known on this forum. I would be happy to deport you across the border if given the authority. In a proper way of course and not by tying in front of a jeep , thats only for terrorists

Deport a Kashmiri out of Kashmir? Lol only you could come up with gems like these.

Maybe you need to be deported from Rajasthan to some lonely Island in the pacific so that you could chill a bit and rediscover your calmness which you have lost due to stress of patriotism.

I kinda like you despite your secessionist thoughts

How nice.

 

[TM Riddle]

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] You asked me to give proof of India being united under a single empire and I gave you two , the religion of dynasties don't matter here since the point was to prove that this whole landmass had been considered one single unit since the historical times.Oh and the Gupta emperors too had almost the whole subcontinent under their rule although they directly chose to rule only half of it and the other half was under their vassals who paid them tributes and taxes.
And regarding your 30 percent claim , you need to look up at the extent of Mauryan empire under Ashoka which stretched from parts of Afghanistan in the West to modern Assam in the East and Kashmir from north to parts of Karnataka and Andhra in south . Only Tamil nadu and Kerala remained out of its fold , dude thats almost 90 percent of subcontinent and if that doesn't convince you I don't know what will.Or perhaps nothing will unless you take off those ugly green tinted glasses of yours.

I have given my explanation about nation states already. A country is fundamentaly different from a nation and India as a country has always existed. All the foreign chroniclers from Greeks to Central Asians to Chinese to Arabs to Persians have called this land India.
The account of India and it's people written by Al Baruni has been called Kitab-ul-hind and not Kitab ul Punjab or kitab ul Srinagar.
I am fine being wherever I am thank you very much .

 

[Madplayer]

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] You asked me to give proof of India being united under a single empire and I gave you two , the religion of dynasties don't matter here since the point was to prove that this whole landmass had been considered one single unit since the historical times.Oh and the Gupta emperors too had almost the whole subcontinent under their rule although they directly chose to rule only half of it and the other half was under their vassals who paid them tributes and taxes.
And regarding your 30 percent claim , you need to look up at the extent of Mauryan empire under Ashoka which stretched from parts of Afghanistan in the West to modern Assam in the East and Kashmir from north to parts of Karnataka and Andhra in south . Only Tamil nadu and Kerala remained out of its fold , dude thats almost 90 percent of subcontinent and if that doesn't convince you I don't know what will.Or perhaps nothing will unless you take off those ugly green tinted glasses of yours.

Dude you generally have some form of logic behind your posts but this is an insult to your thinking ability.

"Mauryans united India including Kashmir", "Mughals united India including Kashmir". First of all they didnt unite all of Present day India but you want to ignore big parts of present day south India and some other places because majority was under them. Okay , conceded. So bloody what? For every example you provide of India being unified under one empire, i can provide many times more examples of India not being under 1 kingdom and just a collection of many Kingdoms who were more or less fighting with each other the whole time.

Even you know (and i am assuming you know) that Akhand Jammu & Kashmir ( : ) was independent more times than it was under the rule of a kingdom which ruled entire India. This alone counters and cancels your points which you base on the belief of a single unified India under 1 administrative authority.

I have given my explanation about nation states already. A country is fundamentaly different from a nation and India as a country has always existed. All the foreign chroniclers from Greeks to Central Asians to Chinese to Arabs to Persians have called this land India.The account of India and it's people written by Al Baruni has been called Kitab-ul-hind and not Kitab ul Punjab or kitab ul Srinagar.

I know the difference between a nation and country. India even today has a lot of nations within it. But you are missing the point that historians were purely academic in their approach when they called these lands as India. Similar to Europe. This part of the world was relatively unknown at that point in time. So they called everything east of a certain point as India for their academic convenience. That doesnt make everything east Asian as one country. It holds no weight.

But i cant force you to change your beliefs. You can believe anything you want. By the way you must like the new show that will come on sony Tv by the name of Porus. I am anticipating the biggest distortion of facts in television history.

I am fine being wherever I am thank you very much .

Kyun bhai. Ghoomna sehat ke liye acha hai. Goa hi ghoom aao at least

 

[zn426]

If only life were so simple that India just decides to hand off Kashmir and everything would just be hunk dory after that huh ? Lets just pretend for the sake of arguement that Indian government themselves are sick and tired of the Kashmir issue and hands the disputed territory to Pakistan. Whats next..?

Once Kashmir is handed over do you honestly think Pakistan is not going to ask for something else..?
Do we think the rest of India is going to be ok with that ?
Whats then going to happen to the non muslims in Kashmir once the handover occurs ? We all know what happened to the Kashmir Pandits..You can take a wild guess there..
The people of Kashmir that want to stay with India, what about them ?
Today the radical elements coming into Kashmir fom neighbouring countries are kept in check by India. Whats to stop them from entering Arunachal or Utharakand once Kashmir is handed over to Pakistan...
What about about Lakshadweep, which has a 96% Muslim population, should that also be given independence from India?
Should the arguement then hold that all minority religions (christians, jews, sikhs, etc) in India have its own state ?
Should the sikhs of Punjab then be given its own state. Should Indians then also hand over Aksai chin back to China without any dispute also ?
Should the sacrifices of Indian soldiers that died during the wars fought in Kargil and others be in vain ?

The identity of India being a secular democracy ceases to exist after this so called handover.
I agree India should be handing over Kashmir or giving Kashmir independance if it were treating the kashmiris as second class citizens but instead Kashmir is a part of India just as all the other states. The arguement that Pakistan should take back Kashmir only because its a a majority muslim domain or it thinks that Kashmiri folks are not happy is false propaganda.

If Kashmiris are truly unhappy or going through some mass genocide why don't they just leave or ask for refugee status in some other neighbouring country ? Surely they are seeing something in India which is why they are staying ?

They are seeing their home, where they grew up, and where they want to live and be happy. They are seeing their own people. So they should uproot their homes, jobs, lives, just for the convenience of the Indian government, so that India doesn't have to do the right thing?
Besides, India has been using the same cultural division tactics with Pakistan. "Free Balochistan!" is the calling cry now. What's next? "Free Sindh!" or "Free Punjab!"? Golden Rule-do unto others as you would want other to do unto you.

 

[big_gamer007]

Good for him, people need to accept present day borders and move on with their lives.. If the government of the country do not provide them with a good standard of living they can protest against that and will get good support from other Indians as well but if you protest against being part of the country itself then we have a problem.. You won't win this fight and are only ruining your own future generations..
[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION]

 

[Madplayer]

You won't win this fight and are only ruining your own future generations..

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION]

Winning has subjective definitions my friend.

Rest of your post was too utopian (from an Indian perspective) to be replied to.

 

[maverick85]

You almost make it look like India is obsessed with Kashmir. I told you the obvious reasons earlier that India can't just handover Kashmir because of the chaos that will ensue in India due to the aftermath. It's not simple. If we take a trip down memory lane, India was asked to come by the Kashmir king to come protect his people from being looted and murdered by a certain country and hence willingly asked to be a part of India. Not making anything up here.

Also if one were to think logically Kashmir if it were independent cannot stand on its two feet. Let's be honest here. It's not like Kashmir is sitting on a landmine of oil or diamonds. If it decides to join with Pakistan then it's going to be one big dice roll whether Pakistan cares enough for the Kashmir people when it solely depends on China for its survival. It's not going to get any handouts from India for obvious reasons. It's most likely going to end up as a city with a lot of civil unrest and be a bigger problem for both India and Pakistan..... India is trying to help by not allowing that to happen. Even if it means going against the will of the Kashmiri people.

That king had no real authority away from his centre of influence of certain parts of Jammu. He was gifted the title by the British who was under the impression he would rule and his lineage for years to come. This barely reached 100 years before partition stopped that in its tracks. The Kashmiri's have themselves to blame as they were led by their own Sheikh Abdullah Abdullah and were duped. They should have joined the rebellion and drove these dogras from their forts like was done in AJK. Now they want none of it as seen as seen by the protests that keep flaring up especially from the new generation. The sad thing is they're still duped by Sheikh Abdullah Abdullahs bloodline who are still in power in some form or another.

 

[90MPH]

Reminds of the movie Haider actually where someone sees injustice and then joins militant groups.

If it's hasn't been resolved for the last 70 years it's not going to be solved for the next 50 years.

Bottom line Kashmiris don't want half a million troops on their land with a gun pointed at them on every corner, killing and raping then getting away with it. Maybe in 100 years time the Indian government will realise this hopeless policy will become pointless and they will do something about it.

 

[big_gamer007]

Winning has subjective definitions my friend.

Rest of your post was too utopian (from an Indian perspective) to be replied to.

Ofcourse it's utopian but seeing you guys are fighting the battle against Indian state for decades if you change your stance and still continue the fight but this time for a better standard of living within the Indian state wouldn't it help you guys more? You'll probably get support of Indians as well as international community in this respect..

Currently the Indian state is just too powerful on a global level(not a superpower before the Pakistanis here derail this post but a powerful consumer economy) for other countries to take a hard stance.. And Kashmiri population is fighting a losing battle against the state..

Surely at the end of the day it shouldn't matter to you if you live in Kashmir get the best facilities, there is complete freedom for you, regardless whether you are part of India or independent? I mean would you still keep sacrificing the future of your children if you got complete freedom and best standard of living under Indian flag or would you prefer an independent country however ruled by your corrupt politicians/mullahs? Just a good for thought

 

[Moh@n]

Why should Kashmiris leave when India is occupying our land?

Why did Rohingyas flee from Myanmar when atrocities were happening to them?

Moreover, it's not your land. The land belongs to India legally as per the treaty of accession. Please read history. Here's a good place to start:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-16069078

We don't see it as a part of India. We want our right to self determination that India promised. Pakistan and Kashmiris agree that self determination is the way forward!

The ball is in Pakistan's court. Read the UN resolution on Kashmir.

 

[Pakistanian]

Why did Rohingyas flee from Myanmar when atrocities were happening to them?

Moreover, it's not your land. The land belongs to India legally as per the treaty of accession. Please read history. Here's a good place to start:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-16069078



The ball is in Pakistan's court. Read the UN resolution on Kashmir.

Kashmiris are native to Kashmir that ends the discussion. India was also legally part of the British empire but then native Indians decided to become independent, Kashmiris want the same.

It's funny that Indians support Kurdish freedom even though they're also "legally" part of their present countries cause of the Sykes-Picot agreement. That just proves that an old colonial document means nothing.

 

[Vitaly]

People who have a problem can move to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir matter solved just like Punjab and Bengal were divided between Pro India and Pro Pakistan stances. Kasmhir is already divided in the hands of both India and Pakistan people who are don't want to live with the ruler of their side can switch their sides peacfully or continue Terror operations against the Country u are living in.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Why did Rohingyas flee from Myanmar when atrocities were happening to them?

Moreover, it's not your land. The land belongs to India legally as per the treaty of accession. Please read history. Here's a good place to start:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-16069078



The ball is in Pakistan's court. Read the UN resolution on Kashmir.

Pakistan and Kashmiris have agreed. India haven't.

Kashmiris' interpretation is that India must agree otherwise if Pakistan withdrew its forces first, India would walk into AJK and fulfill its constitution.

If India agrees to a referendum and Pakistan doesn't withdraw, then the blame would lie on Pakistan.

Until India agrees to referendum, ball is in their court.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Ofcourse it's utopian but seeing you guys are fighting the battle against Indian state for decades if you change your stance and still continue the fight but this time for a better standard of living within the Indian state wouldn't it help you guys more? You'll probably get support of Indians as well as international community in this respect..

Currently the Indian state is just too powerful on a global level(not a superpower before the Pakistanis here derail this post but a powerful consumer economy) for other countries to take a hard stance.. And Kashmiri population is fighting a losing battle against the state..

Surely at the end of the day it shouldn't matter to you if you live in Kashmir get the best facilities, there is complete freedom for you, regardless whether you are part of India or independent? I mean would you still keep sacrificing the future of your children if you got complete freedom and best standard of living under Indian flag or would you prefer an independent country however ruled by your corrupt politicians/mullahs? Just a good for thought

A large number of Kashmiris want to be part of Pakistan. You guys never seem to mention that?!

 

[Snak3eye5]

A large number of Kashmiris want to be part of Pakistan. You guys never seem to mention that?!

This i never understood either whether this is fact or fiction. Is there been a true survey done on wether Kasmir really wants to join India/Pakistan ? Is there anyone even from Kashmir that's actually living in Kashmir on this forum that supports this statement that they want to join Pakistan ? Like for real ? I mean im sure they have tv's and newspapers over there right ? How can the Kashmiri's miss the fact that they are part of India which is the world’s fastest rising economy. They would know, you would think, that India is a lot more liberal than Pakistan and they will enjoy better lifestyle, services and comforts here.

In all honesty lets look at it from a logical perspective. , if Kashmir were to be independent, its not going to be able to sustain itself economically. Their produce for farming won’t be sufficient to feed them and their industries will collapse if India pulls out. It will end up being Pakistan2.0 . And if Kashmir joins Pakistan who is pretty much also on shaky economic ground, they will be even more doomed than now. We all know how Bangladesh happened. Pakistan most likely will use the resources there without really caring for the people.

In my mind Kashmiri’s are a bunch of misguided lot who does not know what is good or bad from them at the moment. They are being fed a lot of misinformation and false propaganda that India is their enemy. Once India is able to weed out all of the radical elements that’s turning the Kashmiris against India, things will turn in India’s favor and the Kashmiris will see India in a better light. Right now it’s a tough situation as the army is fighting radicals and the radicals are in turn turning the local population who are illiterate and unemployed with monetary gains to throw stones and stuff. The army in turn can only defend itself or be killed and hence the sad reality of what’s happening right now. There’s fault on both sides and sadly I don’t see this easily being solved for even the next 50 years. As long as radical extremism exists in the region there will be no outcome.

 

[big_gamer007]

A large number of Kashmiris want to be part of Pakistan. You guys never seem to mention that?!

Yea a sizeable amount want independence but if they don't get independence they will rather be with Pakistan than India, I have few colleagues who are from Kashmir one of them is ok with being with India he has a Hindu gf and is pro India... 3 of them want an independent Kashmir they never openly say they would prefer Pakistan over India as we have some hardcore nationalist in office as well so maybe they are scared but they do say they would rather be independent..

My post if you read from start of the conversation is a hypothetical scenario and a question to an Indian Kashmiri.. Since you are from POK so I guess it's not a question to you but let's say if India gets a very honest and true leader who sure shot provides all the best facilities to Kashmiris and increases their standard of living to be one of the best in the world in this hypothetical world will you still choose Kashmir to be with Pakistan or would be OK for Indian Kashmir to be with India and POK to be with Pakistan?? Even if it's known Kashmiri will don't have a good standard of living in Pakistan but will have one of the best in India.. What would you choose?

Ofcourse there would be no Indian army presence in Kashmir and you will have your CM and state government who are honest and work for the people..

This is purely a hypothetical scenario so I just wanna know if you guys prefer religion based state over standard of living or not..

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Yea a sizeable amount want independence but if they don't get independence they will rather be with Pakistan than India, I have few colleagues who are from Kashmir one of them is ok with being with India he has a Hindu gf and is pro India... 3 of them want an independent Kashmir they never openly say they would prefer Pakistan over India as we have some hardcore nationalist in office as well so maybe they are scared but they do say they would rather be independent..

My post if you read from start of the conversation is a hypothetical scenario and a question to an Indian Kashmiri.. Since you are from POK so I guess it's not a question to you but let's say if India gets a very honest and true leader who sure shot provides all the best facilities to Kashmiris and increases their standard of living to be one of the best in the world in this hypothetical world will you still choose Kashmir to be with Pakistan or would be OK for Indian Kashmir to be with India and POK to be with Pakistan?? Even if it's known Kashmiri will don't have a good standard of living in Pakistan but will have one of the best in India.. What would you choose?

Ofcourse there would be no Indian army presence in Kashmir and you will have your CM and state government who are honest and work for the people..

This is purely a hypothetical scenario so I just wanna know if you guys prefer religion based state over standard of living or not..

Kashmiris are never willing to say they want to be part of Pakistan if living in mainland India. I have heard this from their own mouths because they fear for their lives.

The Pakistan support is suppressed in Kashmir and Chenab valleys.

Actually people would rather be part of Pakistan than India despite your economy because Pakistan has always supported Kashmiris and there's a huge religious and cultural link.

 

[big_gamer007]

Kashmiris are never willing to say they want to be part of Pakistan if living in mainland India. I have heard this from their own mouths because they fear for their lives.

The Pakistan support is suppressed in Kashmir and Chenab valleys.

Actually people would rather be part of Pakistan than India despite your economy because Pakistan has always supported Kashmiris and there's a huge religious and cultural link.

That's one I agree with your points however you failed to understand my question..
It's not about economy:

Option 1: One of the best standard of living in the world, best education for your children best future for them.. However you would be classified as Indian citizens..
Option 2: Poor standard of living, corrupt mullah culture, power struggle and regressed mindset, bad future for your children. However you will be classified as a Pakistani citizen/or Kashmir will be independent..


Which of the two options would you personally choose? Both are hypothetical and are in no way tonne related to the current environment or that you don't think Indian government would be able to provide that ever..

 

[Moh@n]

Pakistan and Kashmiris have agreed. India haven't.

Agreed to what? The UN resolution is very clear.

From the link I posted above:

1948 - India raises Kashmir in the UN Security Council, which in Resolution 47 calls for a referendum on the status of the territory. The resolution also calls on Pakistan to withdraw its troops and India to cut its military presence to a minimum. A ceasefire comes into force, but Pakistan refuses to evacuate its troops. Kashmir is for practical purposes partitioned.

Kashmiris' interpretation is that India must agree otherwise if Pakistan withdrew its forces first, India would walk into AJK and fulfill its constitution.

After Pakistan withdraws it's forces, the UN security forces will take control of the region till the referendum happens. So you are implying India will attack them?

The real reason is that the Pak fauj does not want their annual "Kashmir fund" to disappear, which apparently is massive money that they siphon off from the government using the Kashmir excuse. If this issue is resolved then they become irrelevant, hence they want to keep the flame burning.

If India agrees to a referendum and Pakistan doesn't withdraw, then the blame would lie on Pakistan.

Until India agrees to referendum, ball is in their court.

Read the resolution. This is what it says:

STEP 1: Pakistan withdraws it's forces from their part of Kashmir.

STEP 2: India withdraws almost all of it's forces (keeping a bare minimum) from their part of Kashmir.

STEP 3: Referendum happens.

So the ball is indeed in Pakistan's court to fulfill Step 1 mentioned above, without which we cannot proceed further.

Why do you think India needs to "agree" on something the UN has mandated them to? The resolution has been documented for a reason.

 

[Moh@n]

Kashmiris are native to Kashmir that ends the discussion. India was also legally part of the British empire but then native Indians decided to become independent, Kashmiris want the same.

Pakistanis crying for an independent Kashmir is quite rich, considering they were the ones who invaded the region when it was independent in the first place. The real motive is very obvious.

 

[Pakistanian]

Pakistanis crying for an independent Kashmir is quite rich, considering they were the ones who invaded the region when it was independent in the first place. The real motive is very obvious.

Pakistan actually sent support to the native Kashmiris who were rebelling against the Hindu non Kashmiri King of Kashmir. He was massacring Kashmiris and creating a refugee crisis during partition and after that, the non Kashmiri King was like an illegal dictator whom Kashmiris never recognized as their own. So essentially, independence for Kashmiris was to rid themselves of the tyrant who was neither a brother in ethnicity nor a brother in faith.

Indians should read books on the history and culture of Kashmir before they go around regurgitating state fed propaganda. Y'all know nothing about the land and people you claim lmao.

 

[Moh@n]

Indians should read books on the history and culture of Kashmir before they go around regurgitating state fed propaganda. Y'all know nothing about the land and people you claim lmao.

The state of Jammu and Kashmir has it's own separate constitution which was formed by the then ELECTED government back in 1957. The preamble of that constitution recognises the region as an integral part of India.

Is the constitution also state propaganda?

 

[Pakistanian]

The state of Jammu and Kashmir has it's own separate constitution which was formed by the then ELECTED government back in 1957. The preamble of that constitution recognises the region as an integral part of India.

Is the constitution also state propaganda?

That was a puppet govt after India's occupation, there was no deal prior to partition that said Kashmir was an integral part of India lmao.

Whether or not Kashmir is "legally" part of India is a moot point, Scotland is legally part of the UK and Quebec is legally part of Canada and both countries allowed them to vote whether they want to stay part of the present countries. That is democracy, any legal contract is always eligible for review, this isn't bonded labor where they are required to stay part of India for life. In a true a democratic country they would have to choice vote and review any previous agreements.

Even in America every state is legally given the right to file for secession and it happens time to time but never materializes cause of no local support however they have this right and there is a due process for states to seek independence, the army or govt isn't forcing them to stay part of the union. Indians need to learn what democracy and the freedom of choice is.

 

[Moh@n]

That was a puppet govt after India's occupation, there was no deal prior to partition that said Kashmir was an integral part of India lmao.

Who said there was any deal prior to partition? The partition happened in 1947, the Pakistani tribal army invaded the region soon after. The J & K constitution was formed in 1957 by the people in power then. This is the universally accepted history no matter how much people cry conspiracy. I had given the link earlier saying exactly that, so feel free to sue BBC if you think they are lying.

Whether or not Kashmir is "legally" part of India is a moot point, Scotland is legally part of the UK and Quebec is legally part of Canada and both countries allowed them to vote whether they want to stay part of the present countries. That is democracy, any legal contract is always eligible for review, this isn't bonded labor where they are required to stay part of India for life. In a true a democratic country they would have to choice vote and review any previous agreements.

Even in America every state is legally given the right to file for secession and it happens time to time but never materializes cause of no local support however they have this right and there is a due process for states to seek independence, the army or govt isn't forcing them to stay part of the union. Indians need to learn what democracy and the freedom of choice is.

So you are saying India is not allowing the referendum. Again, have you read the UN resolution on Kashmir? It has three steps to be performed in chronological order, the first of which says that Pakistan needs to withdraw it's troops from Gilgit and AJK.

What stops the Pak army to withdraw it's troops from PoK and hand the region over to the UN security forces?

 

[Pakistanian]

Who said there was any deal prior to partition? The partition happened in 1947, the Pakistani tribal army invaded the region soon after. The J & K constitution was formed in 1957 by the people in power then. This is the universally accepted history no matter how much people cry conspiracy. I had given the link earlier saying exactly that, so feel free to sue BBC if you think they are lying.



So you are saying India is not allowing the referendum. Again, have you read the UN resolution on Kashmir? It has three steps to be performed in chronological order, the first of which says that Pakistan needs to withdraw it's troops from Gilgit and AJK.

What stops the Pak army to withdraw it's troops from PoK and hand the region over to the UN security forces?

You don't need to resolution to hold a referendum, the uk or canada weren't mandated by the UN to hold a referendum. It's the morally right and democratic thing to do. India should let Kashmiris vote regardless of what Pakistan does, Pakistan should do the same. They don't have to follow the UN resolutions, just do what any democratic country does - let the people decide.

 

[Snak3eye5]

You don't need to resolution to hold a referendum, the uk or canada weren't mandated by the UN to hold a referendum. It's the morally right and democratic thing to do. India should let Kashmiris vote regardless of what Pakistan does, Pakistan should do the same. They don't have to follow the UN resolutions, just do what any democratic country does - let the people decide.

You are either very naive or a 12 year old idiot to think that India should just let Kashmir do what it wants. Yes you would suggest that India should just leave so more radical elements from Pakistan can come over and rip the place to more chaos.

It's gotten to a point that there is no more any true kashmiri in kashmir. It has become a muslim ghetto made by muslims invaders and nurtured by radical separatists that Pakistans Isi sent over in the 90's to destabilize Kashmir and in turn India.

They are also fed a lot of false propaganda promoted by Pakistan and terrorists that Kashmiris want independence with an implied meaning that Kashmir independence would allow Pakistan to invade and take over Kashmir purely on religious grounds. Yes India will leave once Pakistan leaves as first as part of the referendum.

India considers the matter done with the UN for two reasons. (a) Pakistan refused to comply with the UN resolution, (b) the UN has striked Kashmir out off the list of disputed territories, in 2011. India also considers this issue strictly bilateral as per the Shimal Treaty. Pakistan raking up the issue again and again is a huge challenge towards solving this problem.

Pakistan needs to stop obsessing over Kashmir and focus on its own economy. The only reason they do is to keep their military relevant and in order to show they are relevant in world matters they keep trying to butt heads with India. The reality is it keeps backfiring on them which is the reason they are isolated in world matters today. Even the Us is finally beginning to see that they were allies with the wrong country all along.

 

[hafeezrocks]

You are either very naive or a 12 year old idiot to think that India should just let Kashmir do what it wants. Yes you would suggest that India should just leave so more radical elements from Pakistan can come over and rip the place to more chaos.

It's gotten to a point that there is no more any true kashmiri in kashmir. It has become a muslim ghetto made by muslims invaders and nurtured by radical separatists that Pakistans Isi sent over in the 90's to destabilize Kashmir and in turn India.

They are also fed a lot of false propaganda promoted by Pakistan and terrorists that Kashmiris want independence with an implied meaning that Kashmir independence would allow Pakistan to invade and take over Kashmir purely on religious grounds. Yes India will leave once Pakistan leaves as first as part of the referendum.

India considers the matter done with the UN for two reasons. (a) Pakistan refused to comply with the UN resolution, (b) the UN has striked Kashmir out off the list of disputed territories, in 2011. India also considers this issue strictly bilateral as per the Shimal Treaty. Pakistan raking up the issue again and again is a huge challenge towards solving this problem.

Pakistan needs to stop obsessing over Kashmir and focus on its own economy. The only reason they do is to keep their military relevant and in order to show they are relevant in world matters they keep trying to butt heads with India. The reality is it keeps backfiring on them which is the reason they are isolated in world matters today. Even the Us is finally beginning to see that they were allies with the wrong country all along.

Good to see you have stopped pretending to be a Pakistani anymore.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

That's one I agree with your points however you failed to understand my question..
It's not about economy:

Option 1: One of the best standard of living in the world, best education for your children best future for them.. However you would be classified as Indian citizens..
Option 2: Poor standard of living, corrupt mullah culture, power struggle and regressed mindset, bad future for your children. However you will be classified as a Pakistani citizen/or Kashmir will be independent..


Which of the two options would you personally choose? Both are hypothetical and are in no way tonne related to the current environment or that you don't think Indian government would be able to provide that ever..

What do you call a standard of living where we have to live under the AFSPA, PSA, mass graves, the largest military occupation in the world, half widows and mass taping a and cold blooded murder?

For 70 years you (India) have not understood this. Let Kashmir be free and join Pakistan like it was meant to!

 

[Snak3eye5]

What do you call a standard of living where we have to live under the AFSPA, PSA, mass graves, the largest military occupation in the world, half widows and mass taping a and cold blooded murder?

For 70 years you (India) have not understood this. Let Kashmir be free and join Pakistan like it was meant to!

Basically youre not seeing that whatever the dire issue is in Kashmir, it will be multiplied by 10 once Kashmir is on its own. Its going to be a breeding ground for more extremists which will only cause more problems for India. The sad reality of this happening is that Kashmir may end up being another Afghanistan. If it joins Pakistan, it will be Bangladesh situation all over again, since it proves that Pakistan was never a true protector of muslims. So lets not kid ourselves. If Kashmir actually thinks it can stand on its own, it is wishful thinking. India is trying to help Kashmir from this chaos. I also don’t see it ending there. Once this handover happens, the extremist’s or even Pakistan is going to start demanding more land from Himachal, Punjab and Delhi even. Sounds reasonable right ? A certain country has been obsessed with Kashmir, since 1947 Do we think that once this handover happens, the ask will end there ?

Secondly India will hurt itself big time if it ever were to even think of letting Kashmir go as its going to break India into two. Probably cause a civil war. The current unity in diversity theory with all its 100 or more subcultures, languages, religions all living under one roof will start to question whether it needs to stay as part of India or maybe even question the reverse. Will India just hand them over to some other country If the need arises ? Whatever economic benefits India enjoys because of this multicultural cohesiveness, will start to crumble. India will never in a billion years allow that to happen.

Lastly and most importantly, India is a rising superpower and a fast growing economy, maybe not in the same league as say US, but nevertheless a status-quo power in Asia and in order to main its leadership status in Asia, its just not going to give a part of itself away to appease anyone even if held at gunpoint. Its going to show India as being weak. The citizens of India themselves will take the government to task, not to mention the lives of the soldiers that died in vane trying to secure the Kashmir Border.…

If there really are people In Kashmir that want to leave (I highly doubt it) They need a reality check..

 

[90MPH]

Good to see you have stopped pretending to be a Pakistani anymore.

Lol true.

I genuinely thought he was a Pakistani supporter - at least the truth is out.

 

[Sidilicious]

Pakistan and Kashmiris have agreed. India haven't.

Kashmiris' interpretation is that India must agree otherwise if Pakistan withdrew its forces first, India would walk into AJK and fulfill its constitution.

If India agrees to a referendum and Pakistan doesn't withdraw, then the blame would lie on Pakistan.

Until India agrees to referendum, ball is in their court.

Incorrect. There is a clear 3 step process for the referendum and they are sequential and mandatory.

1. Pakistan army withdraws from Kashmir
2. Indian Army withdraws from Kashmir (keeping a few to maintain L&O)
3. Referendum

These steps are sequential, i.e. 2 cannot take place unless 1 is done. So Pakistan army needs to withdraw its forces before it can ask anything from India. Simples!

 

[Moh@n]

Incorrect. There is a clear 3 step process for the referendum and they are sequential and mandatory.

1. Pakistan army withdraws from Kashmir
2. Indian Army withdraws from Kashmir (keeping a few to maintain L&O)
3. Referendum

These steps are sequential, i.e. 2 cannot take place unless 1 is done. So Pakistan army needs to withdraw its forces before it can ask anything from India. Simples!

It's very obvious and appalling at the same time that Pakistanis who cry referendum in Kashmir have never bothered reading the UN resolution.

 

[Varun]

Pakistan needs to stop obsessing over Kashmir and focus on its own economy. The only reason they do is to keep their military relevant and in order to show they are relevant in world matters they keep trying to butt heads with India. The reality is it keeps backfiring on them which is the reason they are isolated in world matters today. Even the Us is finally beginning to see that they were allies with the wrong country all along.

Well I hope that thought process works in reverse and India recognizes that the US is a terrible country to ally with too.

 

[big_gamer007]

What do you call a standard of living where we have to live under the AFSPA, PSA, mass graves, the largest military occupation in the world, half widows and mass taping a and cold blooded murder?

For 70 years you (India) have not understood this. Let Kashmir be free and join Pakistan like it was meant to!

So you are avoiding my question and don't wanna answer it.. That's fair enough I guess it's difficult to choose what you want more religion or better life.. Maybe when you have an answer we can discuss further.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

So you are avoiding my question and don't wanna answer it.. That's fair enough I guess it's difficult to choose what you want more religion or better life.. Maybe when you have an answer we can discuss further.

It's not a difficult question. I'm a busy person.

Kashmiris don't see any connection with India and most certainly we don't want to be part of India.

We would have a better life with the valleys (Kashmir and Chenab) merged with Pakistan: no more rapes, mass graves, AFSPA, being treated like criminals and being hated.

The Indian government is a joke- it's the world's largest hypocrisy rather than democracy.

Agree to a referendum in Jammu and Kashmir and then we might be able to call India a democracy.

It's also a shame for India that they're too pig headed (hydroelectricity as water is important to them) to realise this occupation is stopping them from going further in the world because it's a Black spot against India globally.