"MS Dhoni is still a very integral part of this (ODI) team" : Virat Kohli

[Abdullah719]

MS Dhoni remains an integral part of India's ODI team and is only missing the team’s forthcoming T20Is to offer an opportunity to Rishabh Pant, Virat Kohli has stressed.

"He's still a very integral part of this team and he just feels that in the T20 format, someone like Rishabh can get more chances,” Kohli said.

Dhoni has been left out of the T20 series against the Windies and Australia.

"He anyway plays the ODIs for us regularly, so, from that point of view, he's only trying to help the youngsters; nothing that anything that other people are thinking and I as captain can certainly assure you of that," Kohli said.

The India captain was speaking after India secured a 3-1 ODI series victory over the West Indies with a thumping eight-wicket win at Greenfield International Stadium. Though Rohit Sharma and Kohli himself were in rampant run-scoring form throughout, the most pleasing aspect of the series for the skipper was the development of Ambati Rayudu at No.4 and the left-arm seamer Khaleel Ahmed.

"Those two things is something that we were looking for a while; someone to back-up Bhuvi and Bumrah – someone to pick up wickets and bowl in good areas. Having a left-arm seamer gives you variation in the attack. Khaleel was really good and Rayudu of course grabbing his opportunities, batting with maturity, batting with composure. It is always good to plug in the areas that you are looking at," he added.

All teams are attempting to nail their selection options ahead of next year’s ICC World Cup.

Kohli said he was targeting an improvement in the side’s fielding between now and the tournament.

"If we can be consistent as a fielding side, it can give us more consistency overall in our skills department as well. In the field, we can still improve a lot. We have spoken to the people in the practice sessions who need to do the extra effort to sharpen their fielding, and they are putting in that extra effort.

"That is the only area we feel we can get better at. Obviously, batting and bowling are big variables. Fielding is something that is controllable and you need to get that from all the 11 players in the field.”

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/895452

 

[TeamPak95]

VK's all about that experience

 

[troodon]

Kohli is like a baby who want to hang on to its Mama no matter what.

If MSD quits, it will balance outs the team very well. We can play both Pant and Rahul in the team. If Rahul does not grab his opportunities, we can even induct Shaw in the middle order.

 

[cricketworm]

Kohli is like a baby who want to hang on to its Mama no matter what.

If MSD quits, it will balance outs the team very well. We can play both Pant and Rahul in the team. If Rahul does not grab his opportunities, we can even induct Shaw in the middle order.

Are you willing to drop Dhawan for Rahul?

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Kohli is scared because he will be xposed as a crap LOI captai without Dhoni. Dhoni is spoonfeeding him.

 

[rhony]

World cup is all about experience. Without Dhoni, there is no experience after no.3. Also, Dhoni is a great tactician in tournaments. Kohli needs him more than Dhoni needs team India spot. He's achieved everything as a captain in LOI cricket. As a player he exceeded everybody's expectations long time ago and has some of the best clutch innings in history of LOI cricket. As a fan of Dhoni, I hope he wcores a few runs before his final swansong.

 

[WengerOut]

If Kohli needs Dhoni as captain, strip him of captaincy. No need of an imbecile captain.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

If Kohli needs Dhoni as captain, strip him of captaincy. No need of an imbecile captain.

India should try Rohit. Kohli can handle himself fine in tests, but he's clueless in LOIs.

 

[Rahul1]

Group stage exit from the World cup confirmed.

 

[cricketindiafan]

World cup is all about experience. Without Dhoni, there is no experience after no.3. Also, Dhoni is a great tactician in tournaments. Kohli needs him more than Dhoni needs team India spot. He's achieved everything as a captain in LOI cricket. As a player he exceeded everybody's expectations long time ago and has some of the best clutch innings in history of LOI cricket. As a fan of Dhoni, I hope he wcores a few runs before his final swansong.

While we are at it, let us go back to Yuvraj and Raina as well who have a better credential than Dhoni.

Yuvraj got 10 games after his comeback, scored 372 runs@41 at a SR of 98.67
Raina got 3 ODIs, scored 47 runs and has been booted out
While Dhoni in his last 30 matches has scored 500 runs@25 and a SR of 75

Dhoni has the worst record among the three in ICC tournaments, both in terms of batting average and strike rate - 36 matches, 690 runs@34, SR of 85 (he gets saved by the 2011 world cup final knocks else it's a pathetic record for someone called an ODI ATG)
Yuvraj's record is 41 matches, 1114 runs@42 SR of 89
Raina's record is 23 matches 453 runs@38, SR of 101

You can clearly see who goes missing in ICC tournaments. 2019 will not be any different if Dhoni gets to play in the name of experience.

 

[the_outsider]

The funniest thing is that PPers don't realise that they are comparing Dhoni with Dhoni, not another alternate option. Their complaint is that Dhoni is no longer the Dhoni of 2011. Nobody is the same at 30 and 37 years of age. Yes, this year has been a let-down as far as batting is concerned. But people are quick to forget that in 2017 he averaged over 60 with a SR of 85 (six 50s, one hundred).

But let's stop comparing Dhoni (2018) with Dhoni (2011) right now and compare Dhoni with actual alternatives that we have in 2018. So, who is the better option right now?

Pant hasn't played a single LOI knock of note. I've said this before and I'll say this again, Pant is still a work in progress as far as 50-overs cricket is concerned. Life as a middle order batsman in ODIs is not easy at all. You can come in to bat at 250/3 in the 45th over or you can come in at 120/4 in the 25th over. A middle-order batsman should have the game to handle both situations.

Unfortunately, Pant has only 1 game - hit or block. He is not the kind who can milk the bowlers for 6 singles an over and take the game deep. His List A avg of 29 is testament to that. If it's his day, he can score a 40 ball 70. Otherwise he will slog to long on and get caught and have the team reeling at 160/7 after 35 overs.

And finally, we come to wicketkeeping. This is where Pant really loses out because he isn't even half the keeper that Dhoni is. When a team is so reliant on spinners like India is, the WK becomes as important to the team as their strike batsmen/bowlers. Dhoni sits right on top as the world record holder for stumpings (115). If people will remember one of the stumpings from the recent WI series, Dhoni stumped a batsman out in 0.08 second. Yes! Less than 1/10th of a second. Dhoni creates wicket opportunities out of nowhere.

On top of all that, once you factor in Dhoni's experience, cricketing brain and the oft-forgotten fact that he is the only WC-winning captain in world cricket right now (which means he knows, more than anyone else, what it takes to win a WC), it becomes abundantly obvious why Dhoni has the backing he has.

 

[WengerOut]

The funniest thing is that PPers don't realise that they are comparing Dhoni with Dhoni, not another alternate option. Their complaint is that Dhoni is no longer the Dhoni of 2011. Nobody is the same at 30 and 37 years of age. Yes, this year has been a let-down as far as batting is concerned. But people are quick to forget that in 2017 he averaged over 60 with a SR of 85 (six 50s, one hundred).

But let's stop comparing Dhoni (2018) with Dhoni (2011) right now and compare Dhoni with actual alternatives that we have in 2018. So, who is the better option right now?

Pant hasn't played a single LOI knock of note. I've said this before and I'll say this again, Pant is still a work in progress as far as 50-overs cricket is concerned. Life as a middle order batsman in ODIs is not easy at all. You can come in to bat at 250/3 in the 45th over or you can come in at 120/4 in the 25th over. A middle-order batsman should have the game to handle both situations.

Unfortunately, Pant has only 1 game - hit or block. He is not the kind who can milk the bowlers for 6 singles an over and take the game deep. His List A avg of 29 is testament to that. If it's his day, he can score a 40 ball 70. Otherwise he will slog to long on and get caught and have the team reeling at 160/7 after 35 overs.

And finally, we come to wicketkeeping. This is where Pant really loses out because he isn't even half the keeper that Dhoni is. When a team is so reliant on spinners like India is, the WK becomes as important to the team as their strike batsmen/bowlers. Dhoni sits right on top as the world record holder for stumpings (115). If people will remember one of the stumpings from the recent WI series, Dhoni stumped a batsman out in 0.08 second. Yes! Less than 1/10th of a second. Dhoni creates wicket opportunities out of nowhere.

On top of all that, once you factor in Dhoni's experience, cricketing brain and the oft-forgotten fact that he is the only WC-winning captain in world cricket right now (which means he knows, more than anyone else, what it takes to win a WC), it becomes abundantly obvious why Dhoni has the backing he has.

It can still be the case come 2023, 2027 etc. Would you still select him?

 

[the_outsider]

It can still be the case come 2023, 2027 etc. Would you still select him?

If Dhoni is still playing in 2023 and is still the best wk-batsman in the country, would you drop him?

Btw if after 5 years, Pant still can't better a 42-year old Dhoni, then Dhoni isn't the problem, is he?

 

[WengerOut]

If Dhoni is still playing in 2023 and is still the best wk-batsman in the country, would you drop him?

Btw if after 5 years, Pant still can't better a 42-year old Dhoni, then Dhoni isn't the problem, is he?

I asked about WC winning experience. Best wk batsman, lets leave aside coz fan boys will always cling on the intangibles.

 

[the_outsider]

I asked about WC winning experience. Best wk batsman, lets leave aside coz fan boys will always cling on the intangibles.

No. Why leave it aside. That's the main argument isn't it? You can only replace someone in the XI if there is someone better waiting in the wings. So, let's not leave that aside at all. Let's answer that question. At the very least it will shut the fan boys up, right?

And also, let's address that "intangibles" argument as well. Because to me, wicketkeeping isn't an intangible. And it's very obvious to everyone that Pant isn't even half the WK Dhoni is.

 

[WengerOut]

No. Why leave it aside. That's the main argument isn't it? You can only replace someone in the XI if there is someone better waiting in the wings. So, let's not leave that aside at all. Let's answer that question. At the very least it will shut the fan boys up, right?

And also, let's address that "intangibles" argument as well. Because to me, wicketkeeping isn't an intangible. And it's very obvious to everyone that Pant isn't even half the WK Dhoni is.

Ok.lets do it.


At the moment, purely battingwise, who is more impactful, Dhoni or Pant?

 

[the_outsider]

Ok.lets do it.


At the moment, purely battingwise, who is more impactful, Dhoni or Pant?

Tell me what impact Pant has created in white-ball cricket? He's played 6 innings so far. Show me one innings of note.

If your definition of "impact" is boundary hitting, then it's a wrong understanding of the concept. "Impact" in cricket means a match-winning/saving contribution, especially from difficult situations. Even a 65-ball 40 scored in ODIs can be an impactful knock, if it helps the team win.

So, right now, in ODIs, even as a pure batsman, Dhoni has more impact. In T20s, I'm sure Pant will have more impact because his game is tailored for that format.

And why are we just looking at batting? Why are you ignoring Pant's average keeping quality? A team will have 6-7 other batsmen to make up for Dhoni/Pant's failure with the bat in a match. But they won't have a 2nd wk.

You said Dhoni fan boys only talk in intangibles. But it seems Dhoni haters are avoiding the tangibles - like keeping.

 

[WengerOut]

Tell me what impact Pant has created in white-ball cricket? He's played 6 innings so far. Show me one innings of note.

If your definition of "impact" is boundary hitting, then it's a wrong understanding of the concept. "Impact" in cricket means a match-winning/saving contribution, especially from difficult situations. Even a 65-ball 40 scored in ODIs can be an impactful knock, if it helps the team win.

So, right now, in ODIs, even as a pure batsman, Dhoni has more impact. In T20s, I'm sure Pant will have more impact because his game is tailored for that format.

And why are we just looking at batting? Why are you ignoring Pant's average keeping quality? A team will have 6-7 other batsmen to make up for Dhoni/Pant's failure with the bat in a match. But they won't have a 2nd wk.

You said Dhoni fan boys only talk in intangibles. But it seems Dhoni haters are avoiding the tangibles - like keeping.

I asked you a simple question and you are giving me an essay . You yourself admit that Pant is better in T20. So lets leave that. In ODIs , he has played 2 matches and in both matches he outshone Dhoni. Then how could you come up with the logic that he is a rash player? Only impact Dhoni's innings has is negative. Yes , his innings will have impact in certain very specific scenario , like chasing small score and top order fails. But that is too specific a scenario for an underperforming player to be selected. Not that he plays those innings these days.


You seem to forget Dhoni's WK qualities during his start. In 2007 eng series , he was having a horrendous time with experts saying he is not diving but falling. That is almost 3 years after his debut. He went to 2007 WC as well. Where was the need for WK abilities then? In ODIs of now, for a WK batsman , batting ability is more important than WK abilities. In tests , it is a must.

 

[the_outsider]

I asked you a simple question and you are giving me an essay . You yourself admit that Pant is better in T20. So lets leave that. In ODIs , he has played 2 matches and in both matches he outshone Dhoni. Then how could you come up with the logic that he is a rash player? Only impact Dhoni's innings has is negative. Yes , his innings will have impact in certain very specific scenario , like chasing small score and top order fails. But that is too specific a scenario for an underperforming player to be selected. Not that he plays those innings these days.


You seem to forget Dhoni's WK qualities during his start. In 2007 eng series , he was having a horrendous time with experts saying he is not diving but falling. That is almost 3 years after his debut. He went to 2007 WC as well. Where was the need for WK abilities then? In ODIs of now, for a WK batsman , batting ability is more important than WK abilities. In tests , it is a must.

See this is the problem with all those people calling for Dhoni's head. When it comes to batting you're comparing 2018 Dhoni to Pant. But when it comes to keeping you're comparing 2007 Dhoni to Pant. There is no logic in the arguments at all.

And Pant certainly did not have more impact than Dhoni in the 2 innings that he played. If you are satisfied with 20s from Pant then I don't see why you can't be satisfied with 20s from Dhoni considering that he is 10x the keeper that Pant is and 100x the tactician than Pant can ever be.

And lastly, pick up Pant's List A stats. If possible, go to Hotstar and check out his List A knocks from last season. He has not figured out his game in ODIs yet.

As for that part in bold - it's just straight up wrong. There is only 1 WK in a playing XI. It is paramount to pick the best possible wk because it's a one-man job. Especially for India, a team that attacks with spinners, keeping becomes even more important because stumping becomes a major mode of dismissal.

Pant's strength is to slog and score quickly. That part can be covered by Kedar and Hardik. But can Pant cover the job that Dhoni does behind the stumps? No way. Not as of now.

In team sports, roles become extremely crucial. Far more than personal stats. I don't see any keeper in the country right now who can do the role that Dhoni does for the team.

Pant is our future. I am not denying that. I would be very glad if Pant performs in the next 6 T20s because then we can take him to the WC as a backup keeper and a backup middle order bat. But currently, he is still quite a few notches below Dhoni.

 

[WengerOut]

See this is the problem with all those people calling for Dhoni's head. When it comes to batting you're comparing 2018 Dhoni to Pant. But when it comes to keeping you're comparing 2007 Dhoni to Pant. There is no logic in the arguments at all.

And Pant certainly did not have more impact than Dhoni in the 2 innings that he played. If you are satisfied with 20s from Pant then I don't see why you can't be satisfied with 20s from Dhoni considering that he is 10x the keeper that Pant is and 100x the tactician than Pant can ever be.

And lastly, pick up Pant's List A stats. If possible, go to Hotstar and check out his List A knocks from last season. He has not figured out his game in ODIs yet.

As for that part in bold - it's just straight up wrong. There is only 1 WK in a playing XI. It is paramount to pick the best possible wk because it's a one-man job. Especially for India, a team that attacks with spinners, keeping becomes even more important because stumping becomes a major mode of dismissal.

Pant's strength is to slog and score quickly. That part can be covered by Kedar and Hardik. But can Pant cover the job that Dhoni does behind the stumps? No way. Not as of now.

In team sports, roles become extremely crucial. Far more than personal stats. I don't see any keeper in the country right now who can do the role that Dhoni does for the team.

Pant is our future. I am not denying that. I would be very glad if Pant performs in the next 6 T20s because then we can take him to the WC as a backup keeper and a backup middle order bat. But currently, he is still quite a few notches below Dhoni.

Now you are twisting things. I brought 2007 just to show he was primarily selected as a batsman rather than for his keeping abilities.

For Pant having no impact in 2 innings that he has played , the first 4 innings of Dhoni yielded 49 runs. Pant has covered that in 2 innings. And you think only 2 innings is enough to judge a guy !! Just wow. And Dhoni had more impact than Pant in those games ?? Hats off

The best WK logic is the last clutch of straw for Dhoni fans. One cannot wake up a person who is acting asleep. And i am not going to the roles logic. Expected more from you.

 

[the_outsider]

Now you are twisting things. I brought 2007 just to show he was primarily selected as a batsman rather than for his keeping abilities.

For Pant having no impact in 2 innings that he has played , the first 4 innings of Dhoni yielded 49 runs. Pant has covered that in 2 innings. And you think only 2 innings is enough to judge a guy !! Just wow. And Dhoni had more impact than Pant in those games ?? Hats off

The best WK logic is the last clutch of straw for Dhoni fans. One cannot wake up a person who is acting asleep. And i am not going to the roles logic. Expected more from you.

Roles thing isn't an excuse. It's the foundation of team sports where the whole is greater than the sums of parts. It's the same reason why Bhuvi is picked over other bowlers even though he doesn't pick as many wickets as Umesh/Shami do. And that's because:

1. he is the second best death bowler in the country
2. he is the only pacer who can bat

These are roles. And that's what's required by the team. This approach should not have surprised you. That's how teams build a winning strategy. They build a template and then look for the personnel who can perform all the roles that are required in that template. If a player cannot perform the required role of a team's template, then he is out of the XI. This is how all good teams work. It's the same reason why KLR is out of the XI and the same reason why England had contemplated resting Root for T20Is. Even though both are world-class batsmen.

You are also cherry-picking from my arguments. You completely ignored Pant's List A performance. You ignored the fact that he does not have the game to build an innings. And you are also ignoring the fact that in 2017, Dhoni averaged 60 with a 85 SR. Yes, his last 10 innings haven't been good but even in that he won us a final with his crucial 36 in the Asia Cup. A lot of people have jumped on the Pant bandwagon after this year's IPL. Yes, Pant had an amazing season, personally. But go back and see how many matches Pant won for DD and then compare it to how many matches Dhoni won for CSK. There's your impact .

I don't know what it is about SC fans but they seem to have a very dismissive attitude towards sportsmen/women who are older. I expected better from you.

 

[topspin]

I think Pant should make the team with or without Dhoni because he has the making of being an excellent finisher at no. 6. Like another prodigy in Shaheen for Pakistan he just needs more games under his belt.

If Pant has proven his keeping is adequate and does well with the bat then he should replace Dhoni. Provision of tactical assistance to Kohli is not suffice for MSD to be in the XI.

As for Pant v Dhoni come 2023 WC. The latter needs to call retirement by next year to allow Pant to develop for the following 4 years because with his talent and ability, one feels it is just a matter of time before he develops in a world class wicket keeper batsmen in all formats. He could be the next Gilchrist if he fulfils his potential, good thing for him is that the set-up in Indian cricket will provide the right foundation to reach this goal unlike Pakistan.

Having said all that I'll take Dhoni over Sarfraz any day, even at 37 his batting, keeping and captaincy are way beyond what our captain is yielding.

 

[WengerOut]

Roles thing isn't an excuse. It's the foundation of team sports where the whole is greater than the sums of parts. It's the same reason why Bhuvi is picked over other bowlers even though he doesn't pick as many wickets as Umesh/Shami do. And that's because:

1. he is the second best death bowler in the country
2. he is the only pacer who can bat

These are roles. And that's what's required by the team. This approach should not have surprised you. That's how teams build a winning strategy. They build a template and then look for the personnel who can perform all the roles that are required in that template. If a player cannot perform the required role of a team's template, then he is out of the XI. This is how all good teams work. It's the same reason why KLR is out of the XI and the same reason why England had contemplated resting Root for T20Is. Even though both are world-class batsmen.

You are also cherry-picking from my arguments. You completely ignored Pant's List A performance. You ignored the fact that he does not have the game to build an innings. And you are also ignoring the fact that in 2017, Dhoni averaged 60 with a 85 SR. Yes, his last 10 innings haven't been good but even in that he won us a final with his crucial 36 in the Asia Cup. A lot of people have jumped on the Pant bandwagon after this year's IPL. Yes, Pant had an amazing season, personally. But go back and see how many matches Pant won for DD and then compare it to how many matches Dhoni won for CSK. There's your impact .

I don't know what it is about SC fans but they seem to have a very dismissive attitude towards sportsmen/women who are older. I expected better from you.

36 runs is the very specific scenario i touched upon. DK played better in the final . Infact DK's average and SR are far better than Dhoni in the tournament. Why was he booted out? I wonder why Pant got selected if he was not good. Dhoni's list A stats were nothing to write home about . He only had a good India A series in Kenya. He got selected in tests with no credentials whatsoever.

Yuvraj averaged 42 in 2017 while Kedar averaged 40 . Yuvraj , being a lefty , part time bowler and a proven match winner would have been a nice selection.

And the match winning exploits of Dhoni, Ponting has more victories than Sachin . I leave the rest to you to figure out.

I don't know what it is about experts here but they seem to have a very dismissive attitude towards sportsmen/women who are younger and thinks experience is everything.

 

[the_outsider]

36 runs is the very specific scenario i touched upon. DK played better in the final . Infact DK's average and SR are far better than Dhoni in the tournament. Why was he booted out? I wonder why Pant got selected if he was not good. Dhoni's list A stats were nothing to write home about . He only had a good India A series in Kenya. He got selected in tests with no credentials whatsoever.

Yuvraj averaged 42 in 2017 while Kedar averaged 40 . Yuvraj , being a lefty , part time bowler and a proven match winner would have been a nice selection.

And the match winning exploits of Dhoni, Ponting has more victories than Sachin . I leave the rest to you to figure out.

I don't know what it is about experts here but they seem to have a very dismissive attitude towards sportsmen/women who are younger and thinks experience is everything.

You made so many points which make no sense. Why on earth you brought up Sachin and Ponting, I don't know. Are either of them probables for a place in the Indian XI?

Secondly, let's put this "look at Dhoni's batting/keeping when he debuted" argument aside because it makes no sense. And I'll tell you exactly why. When Dhoni was starting out, he was a replacement for DK/Parthiv. Today, Pant is a replacement for Dhoni. There is a BIG difference in requirements of replacing Parthiv Patel and Mahendra Singh Dhoni.

When Dhoni debuted, we didn't have anyone close to even 2018 Dhoni in the circuit. All we had were mediocre keepers. Pant's case is not the same at all. He has to do a lot more to replace Dhoni than Dhoni had to do in 2005 to replace PP/DK. It makes no sense to compare these two scenarios.

As far as Yuvi and DK are concerned - yes I do think that they were discarded too early. He was dropped right after the CT even though he did reasonably okay. I don't know why and I still maintain that it was totally unjustified.

And if Pant fails to perform in the LOI matches he plays in the next 3-4 months, I would actually be more keen to have DK over Pant as the back-up keeper in the WC squad.


And about that bold part - come on now! Even you know that is not true at all. You have been here much longer than I have so I'm sure even you know that that's not true. Our message boards are filled with threads about "New Talent" and equally filled with threads titled "Is it time for Dhoni/Misbah/YK/MoHa/Malik/Malinga/Amla/Mashrafe to retire?"

 

[WengerOut]

You made so many points which make no sense. Why on earth you brought up Sachin and Ponting, I don't know. Are either of them probables for a place in the Indian XI?

Secondly, let's put this "look at Dhoni's batting/keeping when he debuted" argument aside because it makes no sense. And I'll tell you exactly why. When Dhoni was starting out, he was a replacement for DK/Parthiv. Today, Pant is a replacement for Dhoni. There is a BIG difference in requirements of replacing Parthiv Patel and Mahendra Singh Dhoni.

When Dhoni debuted, we didn't have anyone close to even 2018 Dhoni in the circuit. All we had were mediocre keepers. Pant's case is not the same at all. He has to do a lot more to replace Dhoni than Dhoni had to do in 2005 to replace PP/DK. It makes no sense to compare these two scenarios.

As far as Yuvi and DK are concerned - yes I do think that they were discarded too early. He was dropped right after the CT even though he did reasonably okay. I don't know why and I still maintain that it was totally unjustified.

And if Pant fails to perform in the LOI matches he plays in the next 3-4 months, I would actually be more keen to have DK over Pant as the back-up keeper in the WC squad.


And about that bold part - come on now! Even you know that is not true at all. You have been here much longer than I have so I'm sure even you know that that's not true. Our message boards are filled with threads about "New Talent" and equally filled with threads titled "Is it time for Dhoni/Misbah/YK/MoHa/Malik/Malinga/Amla/Mashrafe to retire?"

Ponting played for a better team than Sachin. So no matter how much Sachin performs , it is upto the teammates to back him up.Ponting had better teammates. Pant was top of the scorers with better SR than Dhoni ( In the late 170s ) . If that is not impact , i dont know what is. A batsmens impact should not be measured in team results. Put Dhoni in DD team and he will naturally lose as well.

When Dhoni was starting out , DK was far better natural WK ( albeit error prone ) and a batsman with far better Test credentials as well. It is another matter that both went different ways, but that is not the point. Dhoni did become a competent keeper . Now he is an average WK with better stumping skills and a non existent batting ( compared to WK batsman standard nowadays ).

 

[the_outsider]

Ponting played for a better team than Sachin. So no matter how much Sachin performs , it is upto the teammates to back him up.Ponting had better teammates. Pant was top of the scorers with better SR than Dhoni ( In the late 170s ) . If that is not impact , i dont know what is. A batsmens impact should not be measured in team results. Put Dhoni in DD team and he will naturally lose as well.

When Dhoni was starting out , DK was far better natural WK ( albeit error prone ) and a batsman with far better Test credentials as well. It is another matter that both went different ways, but that is not the point. Dhoni did become a competent keeper . Now he is an average WK with better stumping skills and a non existent batting ( compared to WK batsman standard nowadays ).

Before I get to the real bit I'll just clear out the DK-related point you have mentioned. Before Dhoni became a regular in the XI, Dinesh Karthik played 10 tests with an average of 11.5 and 2 ODIs where he scored 1 run. Parthiv Patel before Dhoni became a regular had an ODI avg of 14.6 from 10 matches. So, you got that bit completely wrong.

But coming to the IPL argument, I have to ask. Are you being serious? Because even I find it hard to believe that you would make that argument. I mean disliking Dhoni is one thing but this is simply living in denial.

Dhoni won with a team that didn't exist for 2 years - 70% the team was retired or test players or coming to the end of their careers. And you are saying that Dhoni could not have won with a team consisting of Gambhir, Shaw, Iyer, Pant, Maxwell, Boult, Shami, Amit Mishra, Colin Monroe, Jason Roy? Just look at those names. DD was a much stronger team on paper. It is not a coincidence that Dhoni has played 8 out 11 IPL finals. The man knows what it takes to win a tournament. That is the ultimate goal, isn't it? To cross the finish line. How can some people consider not using an asset like that baffles me.

 

[Pakhs]

Dhoni and fast bowlers apart from Bumrah will be India's only weakness in next year WC.

 

[WengerOut]

Before I get to the real bit I'll just clear out the DK-related point you have mentioned. Before Dhoni became a regular in the XI, Dinesh Karthik played 10 tests with an average of 11.5 and 2 ODIs where he scored 1 run. Parthiv Patel before Dhoni became a regular had an ODI avg of 14.6 from 10 matches. So, you got that bit completely wrong.

But coming to the IPL argument, I have to ask. Are you being serious? Because even I find it hard to believe that you would make that argument. I mean disliking Dhoni is one thing but this is simply living in denial.

Dhoni won with a team that didn't exist for 2 years - 70% the team was retired or test players or coming to the end of their careers. And you are saying that Dhoni could not have won with a team consisting of Gambhir, Shaw, Iyer, Pant, Maxwell, Boult, Shami, Amit Mishra, Colin Monroe, Jason Roy? Just look at those names. DD was a much stronger team on paper. It is not a coincidence that Dhoni has played 8 out 11 IPL finals. The man knows what it takes to win a tournament. That is the ultimate goal, isn't it? To cross the finish line. How can some people consider not using an asset like that baffles me.

Regarding DK , why was wicket keeping skills not looked at then???

CSK was banned and came back as almost the same team. DD always had a team of brilliant individuals and they won a grand total of 0 IPLs. Lets not talk about Dhoni's Pune adventure where he was kicked out of captaincy when he had brilliant individual players at hand. Rohit Sharma has won same number of IPL tourneys and he is an selection in ODI on merit . Why cant he be a captain !!!! Why is Dhoni so important as a player?? . Why cant he get into a non playing mentor role if his intention is to "serve the country". If he thinks he has the credentials , why did he resign from captaincy and gave that to a captain who has won zilch??

 

[WengerOut]

Dhoni and fast bowlers apart from Bumrah will be India's only weakness in next year WC.

apparently he knows how to win a tournament. So , during WC he will tell stories about that and motivates the players. They then should only be required to turn up for the games.

 

[Pakhs]

apparently he knows how to win a tournament. So , during WC he will tell stories about that and motivates the players. They then should only be required to turn up for the games.

He was a wonderfully gifted hand eye coordination batsman. And as with all hand eye coordination batman they are only good while they are young and their eyes and hands are at optimum condition.

As he has gotten older his effectiveness in terms of batting has reduced. He is definitely not the player he once was. If kholi thinks he is needed for his inputs and tips thats a different topic but it will definitely be India's weakness.

 

[docteurmanish]

his photo with every indian team . a wax statue too
but his physical eminence need to be buried in jharkhandia land

 

[RyanRyan10]

Roles thing isn't an excuse. It's the foundation of team sports where the whole is greater than the sums of parts. It's the same reason why Bhuvi is picked over other bowlers even though he doesn't pick as many wickets as Umesh/Shami do. And that's because:

1. he is the second best death bowler in the country
2. he is the only pacer who can bat

These are roles. And that's what's required by the team. This approach should not have surprised you. That's how teams build a winning strategy. They build a template and then look for the personnel who can perform all the roles that are required in that template. If a player cannot perform the required role of a team's template, then he is out of the XI. This is how all good teams work. It's the same reason why KLR is out of the XI and the same reason why England had contemplated resting Root for T20Is. Even though both are world-class batsmen.

You are also cherry-picking from my arguments. You completely ignored Pant's List A performance. You ignored the fact that he does not have the game to build an innings. And you are also ignoring the fact that in 2017, Dhoni averaged 60 with a 85 SR. Yes, his last 10 innings haven't been good but even in that he won us a final with his crucial 36 in the Asia Cup. A lot of people have jumped on the Pant bandwagon after this year's IPL. Yes, Pant had an amazing season, personally. But go back and see how many matches Pant won for DD and then compare it to how many matches Dhoni won for CSK. There's your impact .

I don't know what it is about SC fans but they seem to have a very dismissive attitude towards sportsmen/women who are older. I expected better from you.

His knock in Asia Cup had a negative impact
He took 67 balls to get 36 and then got out which allowed BD to make a comeback into the match

whenever he has been needed to finish the match in crunch situation or when Team is on back foot he has failed 8 times out of 10 in last 3 years or so

he has been good only in low scoring chases and there he has only played a supporting role

 

[the_outsider]

His knock in Asia Cup had a negative impact
He took 67 balls to get 36 and then got out which allowed BD to make a comeback into the match

whenever he has been needed to finish the match in crunch situation or when Team is on back foot he has failed 8 times out of 10 in last 3 years or so

he has been good only in low scoring chases and there he has only played a supporting role

He got out. That's the only difference between Dhoni of 2014 and Dhoni of today: that he will not be able to finish the game off every time. That's where Kedar and Hardik come in now.

But it is ridiculous to think that Dhoni's impact was negative in that Asia Cup final. It was the pratically the 2nd highest score by an Indian. Without that innings we would lost that match by the 45th over. I can't believe how blinded some haters are as to claim a final-winning knock as "negative".

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Integral part of the team after averaging 25 at a strike rate of 74 in last 30 matches.

 

[Chrish]

Dhoni must be bribing officials.. Not an unlikely possibility tbh

 

[WengerOut]

He got out. That's the only difference between Dhoni of 2014 and Dhoni of today: that he will not be able to finish the game off every time. That's where Kedar and Hardik come in now.

But it is ridiculous to think that Dhoni's impact was negative in that Asia Cup final. It was the pratically the 2nd highest score by an Indian. Without that innings we would lost that match by the 45th over. I can't believe how blinded some haters are as to claim a final-winning knock as "negative".

No ifs and buts please. He played his max that day. When he got out there was still 60 odd to get without many wickets and RRR creeping. Do you think we would be chasing 220 odd every time with opening pair giving flying start? You are saying Dhoni can't fiinish anymore. He himself has said he can't rotate strike anymore. What is he good for while batting?

 

[the_outsider]

No ifs and buts please. He played his max that day. When he got out there was still 60 odd to get without many wickets and RRR creeping. Do you think we would be chasing 220 odd every time with opening pair giving flying start? You are saying Dhoni can't fiinish anymore. He himself has said he can't rotate strike anymore. What is he good for while batting?

Flying start? India was 3 down for 83 inside 17 overs with top 3 back in the hut.

Asia Cup and England tour is the worst we have seen from Dhoni. And even then he managed to contribute to a tournament win.

Even when people were saying "Dhoni is finished" in 2017 he averaged 60 with a SR of 85.

Calling it right here. Dhoni is going to have a very good WC.

 

[WengerOut]

Flying start? India was 3 down for 83 inside 17 overs with top 3 back in the hut.

Asia Cup and England tour is the worst we have seen from Dhoni. And even then he managed to contribute to a tournament win.

Even when people were saying "Dhoni is finished" in 2017 he averaged 60 with a SR of 85.

Calling it right here. Dhoni is going to have a very good WC.

Flying start so that run rate was good.

 

[Smbhayi]

Ok.lets do it.


At the moment, purely battingwise, who is more impactful, Dhoni or Pant?

is Pant is a specialist batsman or WK batsmean?

 

[WengerOut]

is Pant is a specialist batsman or WK batsmean?

Leave it man. You are asking a question completely out of context. I wanted to know something from him, but he wrote an essay and the discussion branched.

 

[RyanRyan10]

He got out. That's the only difference between Dhoni of 2014 and Dhoni of today: that he will not be able to finish the game off every time. That's where Kedar and Hardik come in now.

But it is ridiculous to think that Dhoni's impact was negative in that Asia Cup final. It was the pratically the 2nd highest score by an Indian. Without that innings we would lost that match by the 45th over. I can't believe how blinded some haters are as to claim a final-winning knock as "negative".

I am not a Dhoni hater,I don't even dislike him


Dhoni wasn't the 2nd highest scorer for us in that match.

Rohit & DK scored more than him & had much better SRs

Dhoni scored with a SR of 53 which is almost 3rpo which was way below the asking rate
Each of DK,Jadeja,Bhuvi,Jadhav had much better SR which were close to the rate at which we needed to score

Not only he played slow but also allowed Muratsfizur got get back into rhythm
Mutafizur was going at 6 rpo but then Dhoni played his 2 overs for 1-2 runs allowing Fizz to back into the game and he almost bowled a match winning Spell

I don't understand how u find that a "Tournament winning knock" and calling other "bling haters" who are opposing your views

 

[the_outsider]

Leave it man. You are asking a question completely out of context. I wanted to know something from him, but he wrote an essay and the discussion branched.

I gave you a clear answer. You just didn't like it.

You asked me who has more impact as a batsman and I said that in ODIs it is Dhoni.

Out of the 6 LOI innings that Pant has played, in 5 he has had to bat. And India didn't win a single match out of those 4. The one match India won was the Nidahas Cup final, where Pant scored 7 runs from 8 balls.

What impact is this that cannot win the team a single match in 5 attempts?

 

[WengerOut]

I gave you a clear answer. You just didn't like it.

You asked me who has more impact as a batsman and I said that in ODIs it is Dhoni.

Out of the 6 LOI innings that Pant has played, in 5 he has had to bat. And India didn't win a single match out of those 4. The one match India won was the Nidahas Cup final, where Pant scored 7 runs from 8 balls.

What impact is this that cannot win the team a single match in 5 attempts?

Now cummon. You admitted, in T20 Pant is better. That leaves us 2 ODIs, which Pant outshone Dhoni in batting. Then you shifted goalpost from impact to roles to WC winning experience to not being young Dhoni to blindly saying he will have a good WC. I don't wanna go through everything again. If you have anything new, lets debate.

By your logic India happened to win Asia cup despite Dhoni scoring only 36 not because of it.

 

[RyanRyan10]

I gave you a clear answer. You just didn't like it.

You asked me who has more impact as a batsman and I said that in ODIs it is Dhoni.

Out of the 6 LOI innings that Pant has played, in 5 he has had to bat. And India didn't win a single match out of those 4. The one match India won was the Nidahas Cup final, where Pant scored 7 runs from 8 balls.

What impact is this that cannot win the team a single match in 5 attempts?

Pant wasn't in the XI of Nidahas Trophy final

 

[the_outsider]

I am not a Dhoni hater,I don't even dislike him


Dhoni wasn't the 2nd highest scorer for us in that match.

Rohit & DK scored more than him & had much better SRs

Dhoni scored with a SR of 53 which is almost 3rpo which was way below the asking rate
Each of DK,Jadeja,Bhuvi,Jadhav had much better SR which were close to the rate at which we needed to score

Not only he played slow but also allowed Muratsfizur got get back into rhythm
Mutafizur was going at 6 rpo but then Dhoni played his 2 overs for 1-2 runs allowing Fizz to back into the game and he almost bowled a match winning Spell

I don't understand how u find that a "Tournament winning knock" and calling other "bling haters" who are opposing your views.

Very simple. Because we won the match. That's what matters, especially in a final. Crossing that finish line. You do whatever it takes to cross that line.

Dhoni takes the game deep. That has always been his game. He did the same against SL in 2017 chasing a score of about 200 when Akila Dhanajaya had India 6 down.

And DK scored exactly 1 run more than Dhoni. That's splitting hairs, isn't it? Also, your point about SR is totally incorrect. Everybody had SR in the 60s except openers and Kedar Jadhav. The job when Dhoni was at the crease, after the top 3 was out was to get the game deep. That is Dhoni's play. And he did that. Earlier he would finish the job 10 out of 10 times. Nowadays he can do it maybe 7 out of 10 times. And everyone is losing their minds over it.

 

[WengerOut]

Very simple. Because we won the match. That's what matters, especially in a final. Crossing that finish line. You do whatever it takes to cross that line.

Dhoni takes the game deep. That has always been his game. He did the same against SL in 2017 chasing a score of about 200 when Akila Dhanajaya had India 6 down.

And DK scored exactly 1 run more than Dhoni. That's splitting hairs, isn't it? Also, your point about SR is totally incorrect. Everybody had SR in the 60s except openers and Kedar Jadhav. The job when Dhoni was at the crease, after the top 3 was out was to get the game deep. That is Dhoni's play. And he did that. Earlier he would finish the job 10 out of 10 times. Nowadays he can do it maybe 7 out of 10 times. And everyone is losing their minds over it.

7 out of 10 is stretching miles. Taking game deep means within 60 away from victory with RRR near 6 and not many wickets?

 

[troodon]

Rohit is a smart captain. He can advise Kohli in crucial situations.

MSD makes our tail even longer and with the likes of Chahal, Bumrah, BK, Kuldeep in the team, our team cannot afford to carry another dud batsman who fails to score big in the death overs.

If Dhawan and Rohit hit bad patch , then India will be no better than Srilanka or Bangladesh. We will be eliminated in 1st round in WC.

 

[troodon]

People said Pant is a hack and not fit for Test Cricket. When he scored some big runs there, they are now claiming that Pant is not good enough for ODI cricket.

MSD fans can stoop to any low to defend their God.

Funnily, MSD kicked out Gambhir, Sehwag and some oldies when they were playing the present day Dhoni himself. He said non performing oldies have no place in the team.

 

[the_outsider]

Now cummon. You admitted, in T20 Pant is better. That leaves us 2 ODIs, which Pant outshone Dhoni in batting. Then you shifted goalpost from impact to roles to WC winning experience to not being young Dhoni to blindly saying he will have a good WC. I don't wanna go through everything again. If you have anything new, lets debate.

Yes, I think in T20s Pant is a better fit right now. I have not denied it.

But at the same time you can't deny that Pant has been a total bust in white ball cricket so far. No doubt he has a lot of talent. But often that is not enough. Rohit Sharma was far more talented at 20 then Pant is. But look at his first 100 ODIs. Avg of 30. SR in the 70s.

Sometimes just talent isn't enough. You have to have your game sorted at the international level.

Pant is not there in ODIs. It's a good idea to groom him as a backup for this WC and the future wk post-WC. But he is not good enough to replace Dhoni right now.

 

[the_outsider]

Pant wasn't in the XI of Nidahas Trophy final

My bad. You're right. It was the league game against BD.

 

[WengerOut]

Yes, I think in T20s Pant is a better fit right now. I have not denied it.

But at the same time you can't deny that Pant has been a total bust in white ball cricket so far. No doubt he has a lot of talent. But often that is not enough. Rohit Sharma was far more talented at 20 then Pant is. But look at his first 100 ODIs. Avg of 30. SR in the 70s.

Sometimes just talent isn't enough. You have to have your game sorted at the international level.

Pant is not there in ODIs. It's a good idea to groom him as a backup for this WC and the future wk post-WC. But he is not good enough to replace Dhoni right now.

You thought that on the basis of 2 ODIs? Dhoni and Kohli were the same after 2 ODIs.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Very simple. Because we won the match. That's what matters, especially in a final. Crossing that finish line. You do whatever it takes to cross that line.

Dhoni takes the game deep. That has always been his game. He did the same against SL in 2017 chasing a score of about 200 when Akila Dhanajaya had India 6 down.

And DK scored exactly 1 run more than Dhoni. That's splitting hairs, isn't it? Also, your point about SR is totally incorrect. Everybody had SR in the 60s except openers and Kedar Jadhav. The job when Dhoni was at the crease, after the top 3 was out was to get the game deep. That is Dhoni's play. And he did that. Earlier he would finish the job 10 out of 10 times. Nowadays he can do it maybe 7 out of 10 times. And everyone is losing their minds over it.

You are comparing two different cases
In that SL match where Akila bamboozled Indian line up
Dhoni stayed not out and won the match for India with Bhuvi
And India were 7 down and almost at a losing stage

Whereas in the BD match
India were 3 down when he arrived,at that stage India were slightly ahead but his slow knock put India in pressure

And my point about SRs is totally correct.DK,Jadeja,Bhuvi all scored with a SR in high 60s which was about 4 rpos
It was only Dhoni who played slow for us in that match
While others didn't make any extra ordinary effort but neither of them had a negative impact on the team like Dhoni

 

[the_outsider]

People said Pant is a hack and not fit for Test Cricket. When he scored some big runs there, they are now claiming that Pant is not good enough for ODI cricket.

MSD fans can stoop to any low to defend their God.

Funnily, MSD kicked out Gambhir, Sehwag and some oldies when they were playing the present day Dhoni himself. He said non performing oldies have no place in the team.

Nobody said Pant will fail in tests. Some said that he will struggle against the moving ball and they were right. That century in the last test was an excellent innings. But let's not forget that it was preceded by 5 innings where he scored only 48 runs.

I have no doubt about Pant's batting talent. He has all the shots a batsman can want and he can hit sixes at will. That's a sure shot recipe for success for a modern day batsman. But I do have my doubts over his game. He is a one-gear player. And I don't see him filling in the role that Dhoni can. If Pant was a part-time bowler instead of a keeper, I would have him in my XI over Kedar in a heartbeat. Because he can play that role and his game is naturally suited to it. But what he can't do is take the game deep when the team is 5 down for 160. He can do that once in a while he plays that freak innings with a 150+ SR. But he can't do it often enough. Not at this point. Not for such a critical event like the WC.

 

[the_outsider]

You thought that on the basis of 2 ODIs? Dhoni and Kohli were the same after 2 ODIs.

No I have thought that after seeing his game. Not just the runs he scored. He has power game. No doubt. But he doesn't have the game to hold one end. We already have 2 players in the lower order (Kedar and Hardik) who have the power-game. So we are covered there. What we don't have is someone who can ensure that we don't end up 70 runs short just because everyone after Kohli is going hammer and tonks. There needs to be a batsman who can give that stability and also hit sixes when under pressure. Pant can do the latter but not the former. Dhoni can still do both.

And I have also mentioned Pant's mediocre List A record multiple times to show that this is his pattern. That he hasn't figured out how to build an innings in ODIs yet. But you have ignored that part every time.

 

[Rahul1]

People said Pant is a hack and not fit for Test Cricket. When he scored some big runs there, they are now claiming that Pant is not good enough for ODI cricket.

MSD fans can stoop to any low to defend their God.

Funnily, MSD kicked out Gambhir, Sehwag and some oldies when they were playing the present day Dhoni himself. He said non performing oldies have no place in the team.

Anyone who supports grandpa dhoni's inclusion in the team is not an Indian fan, he is a Dhoni fan.

 

[Rahul1]

Very simple. Because we won the match. That's what matters, especially in a final. Crossing that finish line. You do whatever it takes to cross that line.

Dhoni takes the game deep. That has always been his game. He did the same against SL in 2017 chasing a score of about 200 when Akila Dhanajaya had India 6 down.

And DK scored exactly 1 run more than Dhoni. That's splitting hairs, isn't it? Also, your point about SR is totally incorrect. Everybody had SR in the 60s except openers and Kedar Jadhav. The job when Dhoni was at the crease, after the top 3 was out was to get the game deep. That is Dhoni's play. And he did that. Earlier he would finish the job 10 out of 10 times. Nowadays he can do it maybe 1 out of 30 times. And everyone is losing their minds over it.

Corrected for accuracy.

 

[WengerOut]

No I have thought that after seeing his game. Not just the runs he scored. He has power game. No doubt. But he doesn't have the game to hold one end. We already have 2 players in the lower order (Kedar and Hardik) who have the power-game. So we are covered there. What we don't have is someone who can ensure that we don't end up 70 runs short just because everyone after Kohli is going hammer and tonks. There needs to be a batsman who can give that stability and also hit sixes when under pressure. Pant can do the latter but not the former. Dhoni can still do both.

And I have also mentioned Pant's mediocre List A record multiple times to show that this is his pattern. That he hasn't figured out how to build an innings in ODIs yet. But you have ignored that part every time.

I have also told that Dhoni's list A was bad. He was selected based on a A team series in Kenya. And No, Dhoni can't hit sixes at will, even you admitted he is not a finisher. He himself told he is losing the ability to rotate strike. You're going in circles man.

 

[Mamoon]

Dropping someone of Dhoni’s power and influence few months before the World Cup is out of question.

If he wants to play in the World Cup, he will. His poor form is not going to be a hindrance. The only way he won’t play in the World Cup is if he has a change of heart and announces his retirement.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Aldeady in a short Test career, Pant has done few things Dhoni could not in his career - score a 100 outside the subcontinent.

Same will happen in shorter fornlmats. No wonder Dhoni was so scared to not take a break from ODIs vs minnows or T20s. Knows Pant will cement his place in he gets a run. Now he's got 6 T20s (no DK please) and 4 tests in Australia (no Pappu Patel please) before the one dayers to force Dhoni into an early retirement.

Have a sense though that this 'experience and TTFa obssessed' team management will drop Pant at hist first failure in T20s.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Aldeady in a short Test career, Pant has done few things Dhoni could not in his career - score a 100 outside the subcontinent.

Same will happen in shorter fornlmats. No wonder Dhoni was so scared to not take a break from ODIs vs minnows or T20s. Knows Pant will cement his place in he gets a run. Now he's got 6 T20s (no DK please) and 4 tests in Australia (no Pappu Patel please) before the one dayers to force Dhoni into an early retirement.

Have a sense though that this 'experience and TTFa obssessed' team management will drop Pant at hist first failure in T20s.

Dhoni in his entire career? Looks like you are an inphant who's born after 2015. Dhoni has achieving everything in World Cricket that no other Cricketer has accomplished so far. Bringing up Pant's 100 in England in comparison with Dhoni's entire career record is a absolute joke! Dhoni is here to stay until World Cup no matter how much you crib and defend Pant. Pant cementing his place in ODIs will take a long long time. This hack is simply not ready for ODIs yet and his hackathon is suitable for T20s at the moment.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Dhoni in his entire career? Looks like you are an inphant who's born after 2015. Dhoni has achieving everything in World Cricket that no other Cricketer has accomplished so far. Bringing up Pant's 100 in England in comparison with Dhoni's entire career record is a absolute joke! Dhoni is here to stay until World Cup no matter how much you crib and defend Pant. Pant cementing his place in ODIs will take a long long time. This hack is simply not ready for ODIs yet and his hackathon is suitable for T20s at the moment.

Number of international 100s outside Asia
Pant - 1
Dhoni - 0

That’s Dhoni for you.

Also a small advice, next time, you go down the ad hominem way, be ready to get a mouthful.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I can understand the hate for Dhoni but overhyping Rishabh Pant as if he is the second coming of Adam Gilchrist is quite funny. These same fans who are hyping him will be the first ones to cuss him here. Worshippers of the rising sun.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Dropping someone of Dhoni’s power and influence few months before the World Cup is out of question.

If he wants to play in the World Cup, he will. His poor form is not going to be a hindrance. The only way he won’t play in the World Cup is if he has a change of heart and announces his retirement.

Pant has the chance to force him into a change of heart (or show the mirror). I’ve a sense Dhoni has played his last match for India.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Number of international 100s outside Asia
Pant - 1
Dhoni - 0

That’s Dhoni for you.

Also a small advice, next time, you go down the ad hominem way, be ready to get a mouthful.

Suffering from long term memory loss?

10000 ODI runs
Avg 50

That's Dhoni for you.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Pant has the chance to force him into a change of heart (or show the mirror). I’ve a sense Dhoni has played his last match for India.

Powerful Dhoni and CSK mafia has allowed your new hero Pant to display his heropanti and cement his place in the T20 team. Be thankful to Dhoni and his mafia please.

 

[Pakhs]

Suffering from long term memory loss?

10000 ODI runs
Avg 50

That's Dhoni for you.

I think the problem for dhoni is that average is going down

 

[cricketindiafan]

Suffering from long term memory loss?

10000 ODI runs
Avg 50

That's Dhoni for you.

Doesn't wash away the fact that he could not hit a single 100 outside Asia in his career.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Powerful Dhoni and CSK mafia has allowed your new hero Pant to display his heropanti and cement his place in the T20 team. Be thankful to Dhoni and his mafia please.

If hitting a test 100 in England is heropanti , we should see more of it across formats.

Dhoni mafia seems to have miscalculated. Thinking would have been not to expose Dhoni to few more failures in shorter fomats, will backfire. Next two months will be interesting.

 

[happydavy]

Dhoni could have been a good option with his world cup story telling ways, which some posters find here very endearing, had this team got a 2011 WC bowling attack with 2 out of 4 bowlers fairly decent bat ( Zaheer and Harbhajan). With non existent batting in our bowling line up, having Dhoni who can only apparently do nothing but take the game deep is calling for a disaster. With Dhoni, the already weak middle and lower order becomes weaker, and the priority should be to strengthen the middle order.

To some kids jumping about Dhoni being the only captain with WC winning experience is laughable. When Dhoni won the 2011 WC, he didn't have that experience and he lost in 2015 inspite of having that WC winning experience. So it means zilch. None of Clive Lloyd, Kapil Dev, Border, Imran, Ponting, Ranatunga, Steve Waugh, Michael Clarke had the experience of winning a WC as captain before they won it, so gimme a break if you think that's required to win a world cup.

 

[happydavy]

And the ones who had the experience of winning world cup as captains, couldn't avoid loosing it and that list includes Clive Lloyd, Kapil Dev, Border, Ranatunga, Ponting and Dhoni. The smart ones not in that list are the ones who didn't play any world cup after winning it as captain

 

[the_outsider]

Some posters here seem quite young. I've seen the same kind of attitude about Sachin by these so-called millennials.

Their loss. They didn't get to see Sachin and Dhoni in their prime and are now crying about it.

While Dhoni has already booked his ticket to England.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Some posters here seem quite young. I've seen the same kind of attitude about Sachin by these so-called millennials.

Their loss. They didn't get to see Sachin and Dhoni in their prime and are now crying about it.

While Dhoni has already booked his ticket to England.

??? Millenials are 30 years old on average. The older millenials are 36-37. You must be thinking of Gen Z. I am pretty sure you're a millenial yourself.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Some posters here seem quite young. I've seen the same kind of attitude about Sachin by these so-called millennials.

Their loss. They didn't get to see Sachin and Dhoni in their prime and are now crying about it.

While Dhoni has already booked his ticket to England.

Don't you know KL Rahul > Kohli > Sachin?

 

[WengerOut]

Some posters here seem quite young. I've seen the same kind of attitude about Sachin by these so-called millennials.

Their loss. They didn't get to see Sachin and Dhoni in their prime and are now crying about it.

While Dhoni has already booked his ticket to England.

Yeah. After scoring 3000 runs in the last 2 years, who is even near to him!! He is an Automatic selection. And his captaincy, doing splits, diving etc are the greatest sights in world cricket.

 

[WengerOut]

I can understand the hate for Dhoni but overhyping Rishabh Pant as if he is the second coming of Adam Gilchrist is quite funny. These same fans who are hyping him will be the first ones to cuss him here. Worshippers of the rising sun.

Pant is just a token representation of wannabe WK batsmen here. I am miffed about people saying Dhoni does not have competition and he is the best we have. And that too, without giving chances to others. Yes, we have given TTFs like DK chances just to make Dhoni better. But even he outshone Dhoni. And when the result came, he got booted out. We all talk about CSK mafia in banters. Dhoni is not pressurising selectors to keep on selecting him. But our muppet selectors are under pressure to drop Dhoni due to non cricketing reasons ( dropping him from T20 is just a trick)


Problem with Dhoni is his hypocrisy. He himself kicked out seniors over non performance. If his intention is to "serve the nation", why is he even clinging onto T20 team where he has been traditionally poor??

 

[happydavy]

If logic can't win you, then throw tantrums and question people about their age or whether or not they treated Sachin as God. Neither of which has any remote relevance to the discussion in hand. It's hard to argue with conformists who don't have mind of their own but are conditioned by what media tells them.

 

[MP2011]

If logic can't win you, then throw tantrums and question people about their age or whether or not they treated Sachin as God. Neither of which has any remote relevance to the discussion in hand. It's hard to argue with conformists who don't have mind of their own but are conditioned by what media tells them.

As I said earlier some of these are just establishment stooges. They are not Indian fans. They would be happy if their hero does well even if that means India loses in the process.

 

[MP2011]

As for Dhoni, even a layman could say that he is past it since last WC. Anyone denying that is just a blind fan.

 

[MP2011]

Considering how badly Dhoni struggles even when Indian team is doing well like in 4th ODI against WI, shows how badly he has fallen. That's Sehwagesque. Even Sehwag did well sporadically in twilight of his career unlike Dhoni who has just failed and harmed Indian cricket like no one else ever has.

 

[Ab Fan]

Dhoni should have retired 2 years ago. His time was up back then only. A new wicket-keeper could have been groomed in 2 years time. But Dhoni had other plans, ie, to survive till WC 19 irrespective of his form.