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Muhammed Rafi Fan Club

At the launch of Rafi sahab's biography, written by his son.. Amitabh recounted an incident.

"Years ago, we had gone to Siliguri, West Bengal, for a two-day programme. Shashi Kapoor had organised it. Mohammad Rafi was the performer for the first day and another singer was to perform the next day.

"Rafisaab performed on the first day to raptourous audiences and left the next morning. The other singer did not turn up. Shashi was in jitters, and didn't know what to do.
"He told me to go bring Rafisaab back from the airport. When I reached the airport, the flight was waiting to take off. I pleaded with the authorities and finally, they relented. The plane was stopped.

"I told Rafisaab that the other singer did not turn up, and if he could come back for a day. He did not say a word. He just picked up his bag and came with me. Such was the humility of this man."
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he was just into singing and never thought of making money, he didn't believe in taking royalty for his songs..

Extracted with permission of the publisher from 'Mohammed Rafi My Abba - A Memoir' by Yasmin Khalid Rafi and translated from Hindi by Rupa Srikumar and AK Srikumar

In the beginning of 1960, there came a phase when Lata Mangeshkar fell out with Rafi Saheb and stopped singing duets with him. They did not work together for two or three years. Lata Mangeshkar sang with Mahendra Kapoor and Suman Kalyanpur sang with Rafi Saheb during this period. The late music director Jaikishen finally effected reconciliation between the two.

The first duet they recorded together after this episode was for the film, Palkon ki Chhaaon Mein. Their differences had arisen over the issue of royalty payments on the songs sung by them. Lataji wanted to be paid royalty and raised this issue with the producers; she expected Rafi Saheb to support her point of view, which was in fact justified. But contrary to her expectations, Rafi Saheb took a different stand. He opined, 'When the producer pays the fee the singer demands for a song, thereafter the singer should not have a share in the royalty.' This was probably a hasty decision, taken without careful consideration. The singer breathes life into song, so then why should he not share the profits? The issue of royalty was discussed several times in our household, during Abba's lifetime and after he passed away, and continues to be today.


Khalid would say, 'When I came to know of this issue for the first time and was able to comprehend the enormity of what had happened, my mind was paralysed.' While talking about this in London, Khalid told Abba, 'Dad, out here when somebody creates one song and it becomes a hit, that singer becomes a millionaire, overnight. You have done countless songs, how much would all that royalty be worth?' Abba was silent for a while, and then said, 'All I ever thought about was that one would sing a song and get paid a fee for it. The other party should not incur a loss.'

After Abba's passing away, Amma raised this issue many a time with Khalid. 'Kaka, do something about this matter if you can. I'm quite sorry it turned out this way. It's wrong, horribly wrong that almost everyone in the world is making money out of Abba's name. And what do we get?' 'Do you think it's going to be that easy, fighting these people? It will take years. As the saying goes, it will be like putting one's hand into a snake's pit. But, we shall see.'
 
Mile na phool to kanto se dosti kar


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http://youtu.be/GeIF1lz8hZU

song when i'm down #hopeless

Mohammad rafi :bow:
 
one of the best, according by Rafi

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**for that moment when I see her.......(sorry to crush everyone's hope but its none of u at PP):asif

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aEd6JIaXtRU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


@aashiqmizaaj with some splendid choices above........i won't ever question ur aashiq-mizaaji bro, ever
 
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Rafi Sahab was unparalleled .............. Trust me there will never be another Rafi.

All his songs are gems.
 
Bump, was listening to a few Rafi classics last week, its been a while since I heard his songs. Felt amazing, I could listen to him for hours and hours...
 
I absolutely concur with your sentiments RR. Indeed, I can and often do spend hours listening to Rafi Sahab's songs. I've loved and cherished his voice since I was a toddler and my fondness for his songs has only grown over the years.

I hope there aren't any objections to my reviving this thread - as and when I get the time, I would like to share some lesser known, but nonetheless enchanting, songs of Rafi Sahab. Moreover, there are some wonderful anecdotes surrounding some of these songs and his life in general which I'll regale too.

One of my favourite anecdotes is concerned with Rafi Sahab's demise; Rafi's charitable nature was legendary and there are countless tales of him coming to the aid of struggling MDs, producers and actors and working for free or for a token fee of a rupee. Moreover, Rafi would go one step further and send money to artists who were unemployed and struggling to make ends meet. The money was sent regularly but anonymously and the recipients were always left wondering who their mysterious benefactor was.

When Rafi Sahab passed away, the money orders also stopped arriving. It was only then that these struggling artists were able to deduce that it was Rafi Sahab who was keeping the stove burning in their homes. Several came forward to meet Rafi's family and to tell them of Rafi's kindness and how he had helped them during their hard times.

To their credit, the Rafi family have never named the people but Rafi fans over the years continue to speculate who these people were and the same names repeatedly crop up..
 
dirk diggler said:
young guns said:
1...ye reshmi julfen,ye sharbati aankhen
2..tere mere sapne sab ek rang hain
3..maine poocha chand se dekha
4.chura liya hai tumne(though asha bhosle song,but rafi stole her thunder)
5,main jatt yamla pagla deewana(fun song )
6.mera mann tera pyasa(dev anand)
7.teri bindiyaa re(abhimaan)
8.aane se jiske aaye bahar,,,badi mastaani haiii,,,meri mehbooba
9,darde dil,darde jigar (karz)
10.khilona jaankar tum to(khilona movie)
11,,,chalkaye jaam,,,aapki hothon ke naam(dharam and rafi,,,deadly comb)


Rafi had a habit of upstaging his peers! I prefer Bollywood songs from the 60s and 70s and early 80s, particularly those of Rafi and Kishore and Lata. Listen to Kya Mausam Hai from Doosra aadmi featuring all three.....Rafi's entry kills it!!
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Rafi's late entry into a song is indeed the stuff of legends. In innumerable songs, he'd upstage everything that had passed prior to his entry. Of the top of my head I recall songs like Na Tau Caravaan Ki Talaash, Rahega Jahan Mein Tera Naam, Channa Jor Garam and Humko Tumse Ho Gaya Hai.

The song you mentioned, Kya Mausam Hai has two very interesting anecdotes attached to it:

Sachin, the child star of the 60s and 70s narrates a sad incident that occurred at time of the recording. At the end of 60s, Yash Chopra and his wife Pamela had became estranged from Yash's family and were essentially homeless. With nowhere to go, Yash thought of asking Rafi Sahab for help as he had recently moved homes and his former place was unoccupied. Without discussing any conditions or even the amount of rent, Rafi Sahab handed the keys over to Yash.

Yash and his wife stayed in Rafi's property for around 4-5 years during which time Yash managed to improve his financial affairs and was now back in the movie production business. Doosra Aadmi was one of the movies he was producing, with the music production being led by Rajesh Roshan. The song Kya Mausam Hai was scheduled and set to be recorded in the voices of Lata, Kishore and Rafi. Once the recording was completed, Yash ordered two bouquets; the first was presented to Lata. Rafi being the most senior artist in the room assumed he was to be the other recipient and stepped forward but the bouquet was instead handed to Kishore. Rafi Sahab left the studio in an extremely despondent state. As he was leaving he instructed his secretary (his brother in law) "poore paise lena, ek pai mat chodna". A shocking statement from a man who was renowned for his philanthropy and for singing for pennies.

A further anecdote is narrated by Rajesh Roshan regarding the actual recording. Rajeshji called Rafi Sahab to the studio and gave him instructions on his portion of the song. He tried to give Rafi a tape recording of the song so that he could practice it but Rafi politely refused. He reassured Rajesh that he understood what was required of him and that he'd be ready on the day. Roshan was still insistent, even holding up Kishore as an example, who normally would employ this method. However, there was no convincing Rafi Sahab and he left with just the notes in his head.

The recording was scheduled for 10 days later and during that interim period Lata and Kishore relentlessly practiced their portions. On the day of the recording, Rajesh says even he couldn't remember what Rafi had been instructed. Everything was set to go but to add to the panic Rafi Sahab was late. Eventually he arrived; Lata and Kishore were looking in Rajesh's direction for him to check Rafi's section as nobody had heard him practice it. However, Rafi made straight for the recording room and gave the signal he was ready. Nobody was sure what was about to ensue but as Rafi's portion was being rendered, all those present were floored.

One anecdote illustrates the fickleness of the movie industry where relationships are contingent to need and can change with the blink of an eye. The other wonderfully highlights the genius of Rafi sahab and showcases his natural talent and singing prowess..
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"Parda hai parda" from Amar, Akbar, Anthony. "Dard-e-dil dard-e-jigar" from Karz??. "Chale te saath milkar" filmed on Shashi Kapoor from some unknown film to me. "Parda hai parda" should never be ignored, sigh.
 
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Pascal Gambit said:
I absolutely concur with your sentiments RR. Indeed, I can and often do spend hours listening to Rafi Sahab's songs. I've loved and cherished his voice since I was a toddler and my fondness for his songs has only grown over the years.

I hope there aren't any objections to my reviving this thread - as and when I get the time, I would like to share some lesser known, but nonetheless enchanting, songs of Rafi Sahab. Moreover, there are some wonderful anecdotes surrounding some of these songs and his life in general which I'll regale too.

One of my favourite anecdotes is concerned with Rafi Sahab's demise; Rafi's charitable nature was legendary and there are countless tales of him coming to the aid of struggling MDs, producers and actors and working for free or for a token fee of a rupee. Moreover, Rafi would go one step further and send money to artists who were unemployed and struggling to make ends meet. The money was sent regularly but anonymously and the recipients were always left wondering who their mysterious benefactor was.

When Rafi Sahab passed away, the money orders also stopped arriving. It was only then that these struggling artists were able to deduce that it was Rafi Sahab who was keeping the stove burning in their homes. Several came forward to meet Rafi's family and to tell them of Rafi's kindness and how he had helped them during their hard times.

To their credit, the Rafi family have never named the people but Rafi fans over the years continue to speculate who these people were and the same names repeatedly crop up..
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My favorite Rafi song of all time:

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..
 
PakLFC said:
"Parda hai parda" from Amar, Akbar, Anthony. "Dard-e-dil dard-e-jigar" from Karz??. "Chale te saath milkar" filmed on Shashi Kapoor from some unknown film to me. "Parda hai parda" should never be ignored, sigh.
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Chale The Saath Milke is from Hassena Maan Jayegi.

All the songs you mentioned are classics are hence very familiar to anyone who listens to HFM. My plan is to recommend lesser known songs but which are equally enchanting.
 
Romali_rotti said:
My favorite Rafi song of all time:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vnXxYufgktg" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

..
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An absolute humdinger and a personal favourite too.

The link you've posted has an opening sequence which was not available on the albums or EPs, I'd surmise due to limited playtime of this medium. It's awfully annoying but this happened over and over. Sometimes the introduction is missing, at other times it's the end portion or a stanza. Indeed, often it's the most endearing poetry that's been edited which adds to the travesty as with your song:

Wafa Ke Deep Jalaye Huwe Nigaahon Mein
Bhatak Rahi Ho Bhala Kyon Udaas Raahon Mein
Tumhein Khayaal Hai Tum Mujhse Dur Ho Lekin
Main Saamne Hoon Chali Aao Meri Baahon Mein...
 
@ Pascal

I heard O Duniya Ke Rakhwale was the tune that immortalized Rafi as the greatest.

However what do you think of the version of Rakhwale which Yesudas sang below ? Its not heart piercing like Rafi's version, however it has that soothing calmness which is soo enjoyable.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yf4TqA2j4KM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


..
 
Pascal Gambit said:
Chale The Saath Milke is from Hassena Maan Jayegi.

All the songs you mentioned are classics are hence very familiar to anyone who listens to HFM. My plan is to recommend lesser known songs but which are equally enchanting.
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Lets rock n roll!

 
My own favourite is "John Jaani Janardhan" from Naseeb. The song may lack meaning but is incredibly hummable sounding fresh even today:afridi!
 
Romali_rotti said:
@ Pascal

I heard O Duniya Ke Rakhwale was the tune that immortalized Rafi as the greatest.

However what do you think of the version of Rakhwale which Yesudas sang below ? Its not heart piercing like Rafi's version, however it has that soothing calmness which is soo enjoyable.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yf4TqA2j4KM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


..
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Assuredly this song is what cements Rafi's status as the greatest. If you're familiar with the intricacies of music, the reason why this song is held such high esteem by singers and musicians alike is clear as daylight. The harkatein and murkhiyaan make it an extremely challenging song as is but with the added complexity of the different octaves it traverses, the song is literally out of the reach of even the most supremely gifted/talented singers. Moreover, the varied nature of the composition also adds to the singer's burden; to wit, every stanza is different in terms of scale and notes and it continues in this vein until it reaches a crescendo at the climax of the song. Interestingly, rather than the song of our focus, it was Tu Ganga Ki Mauj which wins the inaugural Filmfare Award for the best song, most likely as it is the more hummable number. Personally, I prefer this song too but the standout song in the movie for me was Man Tadpat Hari Darshan; I can listen to this on a continuous loop for hours and never grow weary of it.

I have heard Yesudas singing O Duniya Ke on several occasions, but like you said, I feel there's something missing. Indeed, plenty others have also tried and failed miserably to recreate the mood or emotional vibrancy that Rafi infused into his version. The key thing to notice in every cover version by other singers is they're singing it in a lower scale, obviously so the climax of the song can be delivered competently. In fact, even Rafi Sahab in his later renditions (in concerts, etc) also had to do the same as his voice no longer possessed the ability to hit those higher notes. However, Rafi Sahab enhances his covers by adding in extra harkatein, murkhiyaan and taans which keeps the listener enthralled. If you've heard any of the cover versions you can't help but be completely mesmerised when Rafi begins crooning the part Mahal Udaas Aur Galiyaan Sooni - it's utterly spellbinding.

Conversely, if you haven't heard it, I'd recommend a cover by Anup Jalota who sang this song as a shraddhanjali to Rafi in an album at the turn of the millennium. He does a wonderful job and his classical training adds another dimension to the song, but alas it's not a patch on the original.

I'll leave you with an anecdote concerning Yesudas and Rafi; Yesudas began his foray into the world of HFM in the early 1970s but apart from an occasional song he was finding it hard to get a big break. Rafi had returned to the world of HFM in 1972 and by 1975 was back in high demand. Ravindra Jain was working on the music for Chitchor at the time and had wanted Rafi Sahab to sing all the songs. When he approached Rafi, Rafi politely refused owing to his busy schedule and instead recommend the name of a newcomer, namely Yesudas. Ravindra wasn't convinced and continued to press Rafi but to no avail. Ravindra took on board Rafi's suggestion and invited Yesudas for a trial, which went splendidly and so the album went to Yesudas. Upon release, the songs of Chitchor became a national sensation and Yesudas finally becomes a part of the HFM fraternity. Yesudas goes on to win several awards for Chitchor including the National Award and as they say the rest is history.

Yesudas holds Rafi Sahab in the highest esteem. In numerous interviews and stage shows, he refers to Rafi Sahab as his guru and the benchmark for all other singers to aspire to..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VMEhM1kFyKg
Anup Jalotajis version of O Duniya

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DoBjlRHKHfw
Rafi's live version; skip to four minutes in for the Mahal Udaas part
 
PakLFC said:
Lets rock n roll!

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An amazing rock 'n' roll song, which has become a paradox in it's own right.

The songs of Gumnaam were superhits but the popularity of Hum Kaale Hai and the title song somewhat lessened the exposure Jaan Pehchaan Ho received at the time. The song was experimental to an extent both in terms of the composition as well as the optics. The french horns and electric guitar combination was an inspired decision and produces a wall of sound in the background which gives the song a feel missing from earlier attempts to recreate a western style rock 'n' roll sound. Moreover, the style of the visual setting as well as the dance choreography was something not seen before in Hindi films. Benjamin Herman was the choreographer and it's him who is lip-synching the song on screen. Conversely, one feels for Laxmi Chhaya whose head shaking from beginning to end must've induced a throbbing headache.

Several decades after its release the song finds a new lease of life, but rather than on the subcontinent it's in the west. Indeed, it begins to show up in the most bizarre places. The first time I noticed this was while watching Ghostworld (Scarlett Johansson's debut movie?) around 20 years ago, in which the other female lead actress is jiving to it in the opening credits. This then leads to a multitude of cover versions by artistes the world over. Fast forward a decade later and it's now the background score in a Heineken advert. Heineken's advert caused such a stir that they then use the song in several follow up ads.

If you take a peek on YouTube, you'll be surprised at the sheer volume of covers this song has spawned. Indeed, it's exhilarating to see something from our culture cross over to the other side but it also provides plenty of giggles listening to western artistes pronunciations of the hindi vernacular.

My favourite video of this song is not a cover but from a wedding where a bride and groom perform it for their guests. Their sheer ecstasy and delight is contagious and one can't help but smile at the wonderful spectacle on view..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_iWD6U4Beho
 
PakLFC said:
My own favourite is "John Jaani Janardhan" from Naseeb. The song may lack meaning but is incredibly hummable sounding fresh even today:afridi!
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This was my one of my most favourite songs when I was a child. The song is fabulous but the picturisation takes it to a whole other level. Nothing of the sort had come before so the song was a standout feature of the film and drew in the audiences. My wife, who's a lot younger than me, a while back made me watch a recent attempt to recreate the song but with newer artistes; the optics keep you watching but the song was utterly uninspiring.

An interesting fact about this song and one which demonstrates Rafi's dominance over the HFM industry is the fact he has sung at least one song if not more for every male actor who graces the video. Shakti Kapoor is the only one without this honour (unless someone knows otherwise) and considering the scandal that he was involved in a while back (undercover journalist sting operation), it's probably a good thing. We don't want our Rafi Sahab to be associated with a man who habitually abused women using his status.
 
To be honest I was always more of a Kishore then Rafi fan. I would try to convert many Rafi lovers in to Kishore admirers mostly to my disappointment:afridi If you are married then sing "Tu iss tara se meri zindagi mein" to make her go weak at the knee's, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEXG222vqA0 . A bit of romance every now and again will keep the lady happy:usman It is an incredibly underrated track or perhaps romance has died!!:asad1
 
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PakLFC said:
If you are married then sing "Tu iss tara se meri zindagi mein" to make her go weak at the knee's, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEXG222vqA0 . A bit of romance every now and again will keep the lady happy:usman It is an incredibly underrated track or perhaps romance has died!!:asad1
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An incredible and probably underrated (as you said) Rafi sahab track, which he sung just months before his demise.
 
Also, isn't it amazing how such great tracks were so commonplace during those years while one gets to hear hardly anything soulful these days!
 
MP2011 said:
Also, isn't it amazing how such great tracks were so commonplace during those years while one gets to hear hardly anything soulful these days!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzCok-x89I4 favourite of mine. Songs filmed on Dilip Kumar, performed by Muhammad Rafi with Naushad's Music were awesome. It was when music was mature bringing a tear to the eyes of the listener. No doubt India deserves all credit for producing such gems that Pak playback singers and musicians then could not compete with. Says it all when some 50 years later we are still listening to and talking about such Music. No one will be listening to today's Music 50 years on, no way. Old is gold!:usman Quality survives the test of time.
 
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Most of his songs would be ordinary without the genius of OP Nayyar and Shankar Jaikishan. His popularity caused the rise of male singers with faux female voice.
 
PakLFC said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzCok-x89I4 favourite of mine. Songs filmed on Dilip Kumar, performed by Muhammad Rafi with Naushad's Music were awesome. It was when music was mature bringing a tear to the eyes of the listener. No doubt India deserves all credit for producing such gems that Pak playback singers and musicians then could not compete with. Says it all when some 50 years later we are still listening to and talking about such Music. No one will be listening to today's Music 50 years on, no way. Old is gold!:usman Quality survives the test of time.
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Such an awesome song this! How can anyone not love such gems!
 
CricketCartoons said:
Because love for any form of art is subjective. What is gem for you may be trash for someone else.
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That we are still listening to such songs half a decade later says it all. No one will be listening to today's songs about denim's or pizza's from years from now.
 
PakLFC said:
That we are still listening to such songs half a decade later says it all. No one will be listening to today's songs about denim's or pizza's from years from now.
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Doesn't matter. What you are listening is still trash for someone else.
 
PakLFC said:
It does matter to those who see quality of quantity.
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What's quality tho? Isn't it subjective in some ways

I don't like the guys song is he a telented singer with great control probably yes

but I think these songs are far from quality, music composition isn't all that good
 
CricketCartoons said:
Most of his songs would be ordinary without the genius of OP Nayyar and Shankar Jaikishan. His popularity caused the rise of male singers with faux female voice.
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I think the opposite I believe music let him down

His control is phenomenal
 
Bigboii said:
What's quality tho? Isn't it subjective in some ways

I don't like the guys song is he a telented singer with great control probably yes

but I think these songs are far from quality, music composition isn't all that good
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Quality is being remembered long after you have exited this earth. People would not be listening to them even today if they were not good songs. Naturally, not all old songs are classics including Rafi ones. None of todays are that.
 
PakLFC said:
Quality is being remembered long after you have exited this earth. People would not be listening to them even today if they were not good songs. Naturally, not all old songs are classics including Rafi ones. None of todays are that.
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For you not for people growing up in this era

I find myself getting nostalgic over a song I listened in early 2010 that's my classic song
 
First heard him when he sang with Lata in the film great film Laila Majnu.

Amazing vocals from both of them in that film and probably like many I straight away became a fan of his.
 
Bigboii said:
For you not for people growing up in this era

I find myself getting nostalgic over a song I listened in early 2010 that's my classic song
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Once again quality will always stand the test of time. There are many singers from the Rafi era like Mahendra Kapoor and Manna Dey even Mukesh who have no way near the following of Rafi. Someone has to be the best, in playback singing Rafi is just that. It is like there is only one Sachin Tendulkar generally regarded as the best batsman ever. His record proves it no matter how much you deny it.
 
Bigboii said:
For you not for people growing up in this era

I find myself getting nostalgic over a song I listened in early 2010 that's my classic song
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You ll find hes got fans over 3-4 generations including the current

Just because you may not be a huge fan doesnt mean there arent others your age
 
Zaz said:
You ll find hes got fans over 3-4 generations including the current

Just because you may not be a huge fan doesnt mean there arent others your age
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To be fair to BB what I can garner from his comments is he appreciates the voice but is not enamoured of the compositions, which is fair enough.

The fact that the HFM industry for several decades continued to rely on antiquated methods of sound recording is a factor here. Thus the sound in the songs is in a mono audiosphere and as a result the more vibrant instruments tend to drown out the more intricate ones. The fact that one has to concentrate intensely to pick up these sounds and melodys is a challenge in itself but ultimately a rewarding one when you discover something you hadn't noticed before.

I OTOH really enjoy the fusion of a Western orchestra and traditional Indian instruments, which creates a unique sound not to be found anywhere else.
 
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Pascal Gambit said:
This was my one of my most favourite songs when I was a child. The song is fabulous but the picturisation takes it to a whole other level. Nothing of the sort had come before so the song was a standout feature of the film and drew in the audiences. My wife, who's a lot younger than me, a while back made me watch a recent attempt to recreate the song but with newer artistes; the optics keep you watching but the song was utterly uninspiring.

An interesting fact about this song and one which demonstrates Rafi's dominance over the HFM industry is the fact he has sung at least one song if not more for every male actor who graces the video. Shakti Kapoor is the only one without this honour (unless someone knows otherwise) and considering the scandal that he was involved in a while back (undercover journalist sting operation), it's probably a good thing. We don't want our Rafi Sahab to be associated with a man who habitually abused women using his status.
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I should have also said that every actress appearing in the video, from old to new has at least one song, or several, serenading them via Rafi's voice in other movies. This further illustrates Rafi's complete dominance of that era.
 
MP2011 said:
Such an awesome song this! How can anyone not love such gems!
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A wonderful song in every respect, from the vocals to the optics as well as the composition and lyrics.

Whenever Naushad, Shakeel, Rafi and Dilip came together the end result was almost always pure magic. Unfortunately, the song you've highlighted was the their last swansong and the quartet never worked together again. If my memory serves me correctly, although all four were present in earlier ventures (Mela 1948), Deedar in 1951 was the first time Naushad used Rafi as Dilip's voice. Prior to this it was Talat Mahmood and Mukesh. Indeed, the success of Deedar rubber stamped Rafi as Dilip's voice in Naushad's recording room; a trend which other MDs were a lot slower to utilise.

IMHO there is no other quartet that is even remotely close to these four in terms of quality and creativity; they're way ahead of their contemporaries in every sense..
 
Pascal Gambit said:
A wonderful song in every respect, from the vocals to the optics as well as the composition and lyrics.

Whenever Naushad, Shakeel, Rafi and Dilip came together the end result was almost always pure magic. Unfortunately, the song you've highlighted was the their last swansong and the quartet never worked together again. If my memory serves me correctly, although all four were present in earlier ventures (Mela 1948), Deedar in 1951 was the first time Naushad used Rafi as Dilip's voice. Prior to this it was Talat Mahmood and Mukesh. Indeed, the success of Deedar rubber stamped Rafi as Dilip's voice in Naushad's recording room; a trend which other MDs were a lot slower to utilise.

IMHO there is no other quartet that is even remotely close to these four in terms of quality and creativity; they're way ahead of their contemporaries in every sense..
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How about quartet of Shailendra, Shankar Jaikishan, Mukesh and Raj Kapoor?
 
MP2011 said:
How about quartet of Shailendra, Shankar Jaikishan, Mukesh and Raj Kapoor?
Click to expand...

That's actually a quintet MPji. Moreover, Manna Dey and Hasrat were used interchangeably, depending on the composition or situation. Also their association was not as prolific, although one can't deny the magic they created when they came together. Indeed, they are the only group who can hold a candle to the said quartet.
 
Pascal Gambit said:
That's actually a quintet MPji. Moreover, Manna Dey and Hasrat were used interchangeably, depending on the composition or situation. Also their association was not as prolific, although one can't deny the magic they created. Indeed, they are the only group who can hold a candle to the said quartet.
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Point taken, Pascal ji. However, shouldn't Shankar Jaikishan be considered as one?

Also, this very quartet composed, penned, acted and sung most of the superhit songs during that era, despite Manna Dey and Hasrat chiming intermittently.
 
MP2011 said:
Point taken, Pascal ji. However, shouldn't Shankar Jaikishan be considered as one?

Also, this very quartet composed, penned, acted and sung most of the superhit songs during that era, despite Manna Dey and Hasrat chiming intermittently.
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Indeed MPji we can treat them as joined at the hip or conjoined twins - chuckle.

HFM has always had a steady flow of duo acts such as Husnlal-Bhagatram, Kalyanji-Anandji, Laxmikant-Pyarelal, Sonik-Omi as well as the leaders of the pack Shankar-Jaikishan. To then isolate each person's contribution or individual creation is a nigh on impossible task for even seasoned listeners. However, in the case of Shankar-Jaikishan the legwork has already been done by legions of fans over the years.

In light of this, I'd argue to remove Jaikishanji altogether, along Hasrat Sahab and Manna Da. Raj Sahab had a much closer relationship with Shankarji, Shailendra Sahab and Mukeshji and virtually all the iconic songs we find so endearing are the creation of this quartet. This is the case from Barsaat in 1949 right through to Mera Naam Joker in 1970. Obviously this is highly subjective, as we all have our preferences but in my opinion the highs of Naushad et al peak Shankar et al. To borrow a cricket analogy if Shankar & Co. are like Tendulkar then Naushad & Co. are like Lara. One group is highly consistent and maintained that level throughout their association. The other group had the consistency but at times were able to reach a slightly higher plateau.

Raj Sahab as well as being an actor was widely involved in the production process which impacted on the volume of songs this quartet could churn out, although their association does on several occasions come together outside of the RK banner. Conversely speaking, Raj Sahab was an extremely astute man and over the course of their association he snapped up various compositions of Shankar's, to be used at a later time. I think Raj was well aware that one can't go on forever churning out spectacular compositions by the bucketful, so while Shankar was at his creative peak, it was better to buy the tune and hold it for later, rather than it end up in someone else's movie. This gambit paid off spectacularly for instance as in the songs of Bobby, which are virtually all Shankar compositions; Laxmikant-Pyarelal were literally the arrangement technicians on that project. Eventually the catalogue does dry up but even in Ram Teri Ganga Maili (1985) the standout song Sun Sahiba Sun was again a Shankar composition..
 
Pascal Gambit said:
Indeed MPji we can treat them as joined at the hip or conjoined twins - chuckle.

HFM has always had a steady flow of duo acts such as Husnlal-Bhagatram, Kalyanji-Anandji, Laxmikant-Pyarelal, Sonik-Omi as well as the leaders of the pack Shankar-Jaikishan. To then isolate each person's contribution or individual creation is a nigh on impossible task for even seasoned listeners. However, in the case of Shankar-Jaikishan the legwork has already been done by legions of fans over the years.

In light of this, I'd argue to remove Jaikishanji altogether, along Hasrat Sahab and Manna Da. Raj Sahab had a much closer relationship with Shankarji, Shailendra Sahab and Mukeshji and virtually all the iconic songs we find so endearing are the creation of this quartet. This is the case from Barsaat in 1949 right through to Mera Naam Joker in 1970. Obviously this is highly subjective, as we all have our preferences but in my opinion the highs of Naushad et al peak Shankar et al. To borrow a cricket analogy if Shankar & Co. are like Tendulkar then Naushad & Co. are like Lara. One group is highly consistent and maintained that level throughout their association. The other group had the consistency but at times were able to reach a slightly higher plateau.

Raj Sahab as well as being an actor was widely involved in the production process which impacted on the volume of songs this quartet could churn out, although their association does on several occasions come together outside of the RK banner. Conversely speaking, Raj Sahab was an extremely astute man and over the course of their association he snapped up various compositions of Shankar's, to be used at a later time. I think Raj was well aware that one can't go on forever churning out spectacular compositions by the bucketful, so while Shankar was at his creative peak, it was better to buy the tune and hold it for later, rather than it end up in someone else's movie. This gambit paid off spectacularly for instance as in the songs of Bobby, which are virtually all Shankar compositions; Laxmikant-Pyarelal were literally the arrangement technicians on that project. Eventually the catalogue does dry up but even in Ram Teri Ganga Maili (1985) the standout song Sun Sahiba Sun was again a Shankar composition..
Click to expand...
Wow! Awesome!

Man, you're an encyclopedia on old hindi films and their music! Really impressed!
 
MP2011 said:
Wow! Awesome!

Man, you're an encyclopedia on old hindi films and their music! Really impressed!
Click to expand...

I dearly appreciate your warm kind comments MPji, I'm truly humbled.

I have plenty of skirting interests but I'm really passionate about HFM and cricket.
 
Pascal Gambit said:
Assuredly this song is what cements Rafi's status as the greatest. If you're familiar with the intricacies of music, the reason why this song is held such high esteem by singers and musicians alike is clear as daylight. The harkatein and murkhiyaan make it an extremely challenging song as is but with the added complexity of the different octaves it traverses, the song is literally out of the reach of even the most supremely gifted/talented singers. Moreover, the varied nature of the composition also adds to the singer's burden; to wit, every stanza is different in terms of scale and notes and it continues in this vein until it reaches a crescendo at the climax of the song. Interestingly, rather than the song of our focus, it was Tu Ganga Ki Mauj which wins the inaugural Filmfare Award for the best song, most likely as it is the more hummable number. Personally, I prefer this song too but the standout song in the movie for me was Man Tadpat Hari Darshan; I can listen to this on a continuous loop for hours and never grow weary of it.

I have heard Yesudas singing O Duniya Ke on several occasions, but like you said, I feel there's something missing. Indeed, plenty others have also tried and failed miserably to recreate the mood or emotional vibrancy that Rafi infused into his version. The key thing to notice in every cover version by other singers is they're singing it in a lower scale, obviously so the climax of the song can be delivered competently. In fact, even Rafi Sahab in his later renditions (in concerts, etc) also had to do the same as his voice no longer possessed the ability to hit those higher notes. However, Rafi Sahab enhances his covers by adding in extra harkatein, murkhiyaan and taans which keeps the listener enthralled. If you've heard any of the cover versions you can't help but be completely mesmerised when Rafi begins crooning the part Mahal Udaas Aur Galiyaan Sooni - it's utterly spellbinding.

Conversely, if you haven't heard it, I'd recommend a cover by Anup Jalota who sang this song as a shraddhanjali to Rafi in an album at the turn of the millennium. He does a wonderful job and his classical training adds another dimension to the song, but alas it's not a patch on the original.

I'll leave you with an anecdote concerning Yesudas and Rafi; Yesudas began his foray into the world of HFM in the early 1970s but apart from an occasional song he was finding it hard to get a big break. Rafi had returned to the world of HFM in 1972 and by 1975 was back in high demand. Ravindra Jain was working on the music for Chitchor at the time and had wanted Rafi Sahab to sing all the songs. When he approached Rafi, Rafi politely refused owing to his busy schedule and instead recommend the name of a newcomer, namely Yesudas. Ravindra wasn't convinced and continued to press Rafi but to no avail. Ravindra took on board Rafi's suggestion and invited Yesudas for a trial, which went splendidly and so the album went to Yesudas. Upon release, the songs of Chitchor became a national sensation and Yesudas finally becomes a part of the HFM fraternity. Yesudas goes on to win several awards for Chitchor including the National Award and as they say the rest is history.

Yesudas holds Rafi Sahab in the highest esteem. In numerous interviews and stage shows, he refers to Rafi Sahab as his guru and the benchmark for all other singers to aspire to..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VMEhM1kFyKg
Anup Jalotajis version of O Duniya

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DoBjlRHKHfw
Rafi's live version; skip to four minutes in for the Mahal Udaas part
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Great detailed post, thanks.

Rakhwale was sung when Rafi was at his peak, to be fair Yesudas did the tribute cover which I posted for Rafi at the age of 65 I believe, well past his prime.

Agreed Rafi's version is better, however it would have been interesting to see Yesudas at his peak have a crack at Rakhwale. Even at 65 Yesudas 's cover imo from what I know is the best version after Rafi's original just with the fact no one else can hit the high notes at the end like Yesudas could.

The high notes Yesudas hits at the end of Rakhwale imo is more pulverizing than even Rafi's high notes at his peak for Rakhwale..

They are different singers but both blessed with unhuman singing talent and voice, Yesudas has more range as he sang for a lot more different Indian languages in comparison to Rafi. However Rafi is the greatest and Yesudas indeed looks at Rafi as one of his gurus.

What a privilege to have heard both of them and enjoy their singing styles and voice, I had the pleasure of hearing Yesudas live which was an unforgettable experience, will remember it till the day I die...
 
Really interesting discussion [MENTION=154551]Pascal Gambit[/MENTION] and [MENTION=147527]MP2011[/MENTION]

Well done guys
 
Saj said:
Really interesting discussion [MENTION=154551]Pascal Gambit[/MENTION] and [MENTION=147527]MP2011[/MENTION]

Well done guys
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Thanks. However it's Mr Pascal all the way. The kind of in depth knowledge he has about old hindi film music is simply sensational as if he is an insider of this industry.

I guess you too have been bitten by that bug of old melodies, especially sung by Rafi sahab and Lata di.
 
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Romali_rotti said:
Great detailed post, thanks.

Rakhwale was sung when Rafi was at his peak, to be fair Yesudas did the tribute cover which I posted for Rafi at the age of 65 I believe, well past his prime.

Agreed Rafi's version is better, however it would have been interesting to see Yesudas at his peak have a crack at Rakhwale. Even at 65 Yesudas 's cover imo from what I know is the best version after Rafi's original just with the fact no one else can hit the high notes at the end like Yesudas could.

The high notes Yesudas hits at the end of Rakhwale imo is more pulverizing than even Rafi's high notes at his peak for Rakhwale..

They are different singers but both blessed with unhuman singing talent and voice, Yesudas has more range as he sang for a lot more different Indian languages in comparison to Rafi. However Rafi is the greatest and Yesudas indeed looks at Rafi as one of his gurus.

What a privilege to have heard both of them and enjoy their singing styles and voice, I had the pleasure of hearing Yesudas live which was an unforgettable experience, will remember it till the day I die...
Click to expand...

RRji many thanks for your wonderful post, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us.

I'm green with envy (in the nicest way possible) that you've witnessed Yesudasji live in concert. Unfortunately, when many of these singers were tourng the UK during the 90s as well as at the turn of the millennium, I was complacent and took it for granted that it would continue for years to come. Alas, such concerts from the veterans are very rare nowadays and I curse my luck that I missed out back in the day. The fact that some have passed on (e.g. Balasubrahmanyamji) is a further sore point.

I first came to know of Yesudas when I was around 6 or 7 in the late 70s. There was a programme on the BBC called Nayi Zindagi Naya Jeevan on which he appeared. Jab Deep Jale Aana was the song he sang but it was entirely different from the HFM version and was delivered in a carnatic style. His voice, his unique look and the ghatam were all alluring factors and I became a fan. Over the years I've come to adore and cherish many of his songs and several are amongst my favourites, such as:

Manna Ho Tum Behad Haseen

Ae Mere Udaas Man

Ni Sa Ga Ma Pa Ni

His range is truly amazing as you've highlighted. The only slight gripe I have with his singing is his diction. In fact, Yesudasji himself has spoken of this several times about how difficult it is for South Indian singers to pronounce certain Urdu words. The Urdu letters hei, khe, ze, 'ain, ghain and qaf can befuddle even Northern Indians so people of the South stand little chance. However, his voice and range can help one overlook this and he is no way as bad as the current crop of Southern singers.

I'm not sure if you're aware but Rafi Sahab has also sung in various regional languages. I'm going by memory but I think he has songs in approximately a thousand songs in 15 other languages which includes Bengali, Bhojpuri, Gujarati, Marathi, Punjabi, Sindhi and Telegu. Indeed, there are even a couple of songs in English but the less said about those, the better. My mother tongue is Gujarati and to my ears he sounds exactly as a native speaker. Conversely, Mrs Pascal is of Bengali origin and she says the same about his Bengali songs. I have several South Indian friends and their view is Rafi sounds so natural in Telegu. Moreover, his intonations and inflections are exactly as a South Indian would enunciate the words according to them. I have attached links to the songs I've discussed below for your perusal..

N.B. if I omit to include the suffix "ji" to names, please treat it as implied as it's just an oversight on my part.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YGIJ_Eccazk
Jab Deep Jale Aana - BBC Performance

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu3c5WntSgo
Maana Ho Tum

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eTIq2Pt2jJM
Ae Mere Udaas Man

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NjziC6b_zJc
Ni Sa Ga Ma Pa Ni

A few Rafi Sahab songs in other languages:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fxbaZEueBOo
Tomader Aashir Bade (Bengali)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ulrjozkP56w
Kahun Chhun Jawani Ne (Gujarati)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dT1NMquPpwA
Gopala Bala Ninne (Telegu)
 
MP2011 said:
Thanks. However it's Mr Pascal all the way. The kind of in depth knowledge he has about old hindi film music is simply sensational as if he is an insider of this industry.

I guess you too have been bitten by that bug of old melodies, especially sung by Rafi sahab and Lata di.
Click to expand...

I genuinely man-blushed when I read your warm comment MPji. Thanks for the hausla-afzaai to you and Sajbhai..
 
PakLFC said:
If you are married then sing "Tu iss tara se meri zindagi mein" to make her go weak at the knee's, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEXG222vqA0 . A bit of romance every now and again will keep the lady happy:usman It is an incredibly underrated track or perhaps romance has died!!:asad1
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I really adore this song and is it simply amazing that only a few months before Rafi's demise, he was sounding as fresh as ever. I would highly recommend a truncated second part to this song which is equally enchanting. Also, there are two more versions - albeit in a slower vein - to this song which are delightful too, sung by Hemlataji and Manhar Udhasji.

I was in a slight tizzy on which song I should first choose to recommend to you all. Inadvertently, your suggestion has set it up wonderfully and thus I'm rewinding it right back to the beginning in a HFM spiritual sense.

The first Indian film with sound was Alam Aara in 1931 which also had the first accredited song - namely Dede Khuda Ke Naam Pe Pyare sung by Wazir Muhammed Khan. Unfortunately, both the film and song are not available anywhere, although the song has been recreated by various contemporary singers as a homage to the original.

Many MDs have also paid homage in their own way by creating a song which captures both the spirit and mood of the original. And over the years these songs have acquired an anthem like status amongst the poor and destitute communities across the subcontinent as even recent times one can hear alms being requested from passers-by with these songs. The more popular ones include:

Tumhare Hain Tumse Daya Maangte Hai (Boot Polish - 1954)

Dila Do Ek Roti Ka Tukda (Aadhi Roti - 1957)

Gharibon Ki Suno (Dus Lakh - 1966)

All the aforementioned songs are sung by Rafi Sahab, who had the knack of infusing these songs with an emotional plea which tugs at the heartstrings. The list above isn't exhaustive in any way and one could add at least a further dozen songs to the tally. One such song is from the movie Raja Saab from 1969 which is titled Kisi Meharbaan Ki Nazar Dhoondte Hai. The song was composed by Kalyanji-Anandji and a wonderful anecdote is attached to the recording of the song.

In the song Rafi is accompanied by a chorus to represent the orphan children who are on screen with Shashi Kapoor, the main protagonist. Everything was set and the recording began as planned with Rafi singing a line at a time which was then repeated by the chorus. However, as the recording was progressing, there appeared to be a grimace on Rafi's face and soon he gave the signal to stop the recording. He took a brief look in the direction of the choral singers and then went away to speak to Kalyanji-Anandji.

A serious conversation between the three ensued and every so often they would glance at the chorus and at one young man in particular. This young man had become aware their attention was on him and was growing increasingly worried he had done something wrong. In his mind he'd made the decision that when the trio were not looking, he'd slip away but before he had the opportunity he was being beckoned by Kalyanji.

The young man walked over full of trepidation and fear which was further heightened when Rafi Sahab walked away from the group. The young man immediately began apologising profusely. To his surprise Kalyanji-Anandji laughing and one of the two put their arm around him to reassure him. They explained that Rafi had stopped the recording because he felt the young man's voice was too good to be wasted singing in choruses. Rafi was concerned that the young man might end up being typecast and would then only be offered work as a choral singer. The young man was pleased with Rafi's validation but worried too as he needed the money and it appeared as if he'd lost the chance to earn some. However, his worries soon evaporated when Kalyanji-Anandji told him Rafi was due to sing a second part to the song which Rafi was now requesting should be sung by this young man. The young man welled up at hearing this and went over to thank Rafi Sahab for his kindness. The young man's name was Manhar Udhas and the song became his first in the world of HFM.

Manhar Udhasji has repeated this anecdote several times in interviews and always praises Rafi Sahab for giving him his first break..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30-CQcU-tsQ
Kisi Meharbaan Ki Nazar - Rafi's version

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mG0XIvAWPh0
Kisi Meharbaan Ki Nazar - Manhar Udhas' version

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb13QbtmDtY
Yeh Asmaan Yeh Baadal (Tu is Tarha Se) - short couplet

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dhMCB1CK_TM
Tu Is Tarha Se - Hemlata

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WJVrKhMbh1Q
Tu Is Tarha Se - Manhar Udhas
 
A few more personal Rafi sahab favorites,

Kaun hai jo sapno mein aya
Abhi na jao chodkar
Kabhi khud pe kabhi halaat pe
Hum bekhudi mein tumko pukare
 
Pascal Gambit said:
I genuinely man-blushed when I read your warm comment MPji. Thanks for the hausla-afzaai to you and Sajbhai..
Click to expand...

Have you read the memoirs by his daughter in law? She wrote about his first break.

There was a musical program in lahore where KL Sehgal was performing, but electricity went off and the crowd grew restless as they could not hear the singer. It was then that a young Mohammad Rafi was sent to the stage (he had been training with some ustaads), and sang a punjabi song. His voice was so powerful tha t he could be heard by the audience without a mic, and they heard him in pin-drop silence. After that he got a break at Radio Lahore, followed by a punjabi film, before moving to Bombay.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Have you read the memoirs by his daughter in law? She wrote about his first break.

There was a musical program in lahore where KL Sehgal was performing, but electricity went off and the crowd grew restless as they could not hear the singer. It was then that a young Mohammad Rafi was sent to the stage (he had been training with some ustaads), and sang a punjabi song. His voice was so powerful tha t he could be heard by the audience without a mic, and they heard him in pin-drop silence. After that he got a break at Radio Lahore, followed by a punjabi film, before moving to Bombay.
Click to expand...

Yeah read up on the guy apparently he grew up in inner city Lahore and learnt his music there

His accent is way too refined for a Lahori tho :viru
 
CricketCartoons said:
Have you read the memoirs by his daughter in law? She wrote about his first break.

There was a musical program in lahore where KL Sehgal was performing, but electricity went off and the crowd grew restless as they could not hear the singer. It was then that a young Mohammad Rafi was sent to the stage (he had been training with some ustaads), and sang a punjabi song. His voice was so powerful tha t he could be heard by the audience without a mic, and they heard him in pin-drop silence. After that he got a break at Radio Lahore, followed by a punjabi film, before moving to Bombay.
Click to expand...

Yes I have the book - indeed it's a well known anecdote amongst Rafians. I think he was around 14-15 at the time. The crowd had become agitated and Rafi's elder brother asked the organisers to give Rafi a chance to entertain the restless folk. Saigal Sahab gave his blessings to Rafi and predicted that he'd would go on to become a great singer one day.

Several years later, Rafi had the opportunity to sing alongside his idol Saigal in the song Meri Sapnon Ki Rani from Shahjahan in 1946. Sadly, Saigal Sahab passed away soon after, which hastened Rafi's journey to the top.

I was going to respond to your previous posts in this thread but took it as you playing the proverbial agent provocateur and so held back.

However, every time I see your moniker, I'm reminded of a particular Rafi song:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hAtdmbe-K1s

The person on the other side of the line is your inner conscious imploring you to "sudhar jaao Cartoonbhai, sudhar jaao.."
 
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Pascal Gambit said:
RRji many thanks for your wonderful post, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us.

I'm green with envy (in the nicest way possible) that you've witnessed Yesudasji live in concert. Unfortunately, when many of these singers were tourng the UK during the 90s as well as at the turn of the millennium, I was complacent and took it for granted that it would continue for years to come. Alas, such concerts from the veterans are very rare nowadays and I curse my luck that I missed out back in the day. The fact that some have passed on (e.g. Balasubrahmanyamji) is a further sore point.

I first came to know of Yesudas when I was around 6 or 7 in the late 70s. There was a programme on the BBC called Nayi Zindagi Naya Jeevan on which he appeared. Jab Deep Jale Aana was the song he sang but it was entirely different from the HFM version and was delivered in a carnatic style. His voice, his unique look and the ghatam were all alluring factors and I became a fan. Over the years I've come to adore and cherish many of his songs and several are amongst my favourites, such as:

Manna Ho Tum Behad Haseen

Ae Mere Udaas Man

Ni Sa Ga Ma Pa Ni

His range is truly amazing as you've highlighted. The only slight gripe I have with his singing is his diction. In fact, Yesudasji himself has spoken of this several times about how difficult it is for South Indian singers to pronounce certain Urdu words. The Urdu letters hei, khe, ze, 'ain, ghain and qaf can befuddle even Northern Indians so people of the South stand little chance. However, his voice and range can help one overlook this and he is no way as bad as the current crop of Southern singers.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for another great post... Keep it coming, appreciate it..

Yes Yesudas's range is amazing and I am aware Rafi did sing in other Indian languages however it was less than Yesudas. Rafi is king, Yesudas is the second best after Rafi sir imo...

Give me your thoughts on this below song. My favorite Yesudas hindi song, not many north Indians would know about this because this song is from a malaylam movie, which is a musical classic, Yesudas at his godly self.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/b5gNID-T5m4" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


...
 
Pascal Gambit said:
Yes I have the book - indeed it's a well known anecdote amongst Rafians. I think he was around 14-15 at the time. The crowd had become agitated and Rafi's elder brother asked the organisers to give Rafi a chance to entertain the restless folk. Saigal Sahab gave his blessings to Rafi and predicted that he'd would go on to become a great singer one day.

Several years later, Rafi had the opportunity to sing alongside his idol Saigal in the song Meri Sapnon Ki Rani from Shahjahan in 1946. Sadly, Saigal Sahab passed away soon after, which hastened Rafi's journey to the top.

I was going to respond to your previous posts in this thread but took it as you playing the proverbial agent provocateur and so held back.

However, every time I see your moniker, I'm reminded of a particular Rafi song:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hAtdmbe-K1s

The person on the other side of the line is your inner conscious imploring you to "sudhar jaao Cartoonbhai, sudhar jaao.."
Click to expand...

He was a fine singer, just that I don't like this particular kind of voice (soft and effeminate) in male singers, and it includes sabbir kumar, anwar hussain, mohammad aziz and sonu nigam. But at least rafi was original, while these others tried to copy his style. also not a fan of addressing singers and actors as sahab.
 
QUOTE=Romali_rotti;11183732]
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/b5gNID-T5m4" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


...[/QUOTE]

Thanks for introducing me to a lovely song Romalibhai!

The audio for songs in movies usually have the pitch raised for whatever reason and so the singer's voice sounds a lot higher than their normal register. I was about to search for the album version but spotted Kim and so I stayed and watched, and then watched it again - I had an awful crush on her as a kid. Eventually, I pulled myself away and found the album version, where one could hear Yesudas Sahab's voice in all it's glory.

The song has a tremendous amount of variations and traverses a gamut of notes in both the mukhda and antaras. Yesudas' is extremely adept in the higher notes as one would expect but what caught my attention was the ease with which he sings the lower notes. I'm referring to the mukhda part "Main Majnu Tu Hai Meri Laila..." where Yesudas fleets between singing to virtually a speech tone for certain notes and then has to revert back to his singing voice. Even more impressive is the speed at which he does it; his talent and genius is their in all its glory.

While searching for the album file I spotted a number of covers by other singers. I listened to several of those and just as I had suspected none of those guys were able to do justice to the aforementioned part I've highlighted. It was horribly rushed and their unease at that portion is easily perceivable. Conversely, they were fine on the higher notes but that's an ability one either possesses naturally or doesn't. If it falls outside their natural vocal range, one can go either falsetto or reach into their head voice but both immediately show up the singer's limitations.

As soon as I heard the song, I could hear shades of a similar song from HFM but it took me a couple of days to figure out which one. Suffice to say it bugged the hell out if me while I tried to pin it down. Eventually I managed to pinpoint the song; it's also a qawwali featuring Rafi, Bhupinder Singh and Asha Bhonsle, composed by R D Burman - Kya Taqalluf Hai Wallah. Burmanda had a great gift when it came to qawwali compositions and although this didn't receive as much exposure as some of the more popular ones, it's a great song nonetheless (link below).

While we're discussing Yesudas' lesser known songs, allow me to bring my favourite HFM song of his into the discussion from Zara Si Zindagi. The visuals, the composition, the lyrics as well as Yesudasji's singing are all on point (link below). I enjoy good poetry and the profound lyrics in this standout as compared to other songs from that era, when banality was the order of the day. The opening lines go:

Jisse Maut Aayi Sukoon Mil Gaya
Ke Murjha Gaya Phool Tau Khil Gaya
Tadapte Hain Woh Jo Marte Nahin
Zamane Se Kuchh Log Darte Nahin
Kisi Ki Bhi Parwah Karte Nahin

If you haven’t seen the film I would highly recommend it. I would categorise it as a halfway house between commercial and parallel cinema and it's one Kamalhassan's better movies from that era. He is cast as an educated but unrelenting idealistic young man, who believes in meritocracy and refuses to compromise his principles to get ahead in the rat race, one which is replete with nepotism, favouritism and corruption.

On another note, what is your opinion on Yesudasji's total song count; its often said he has 50K songs in total but this seems unrealistic. In the 1980s Rafi Sahab's name was expunged from the Guinness World of records which claimed he had 35K songs in total. If we do the math that would require him to record at least three songs everyday, without any off days through his 35 year career. Har Mandir Singh's Hindi Geet Kosh eventually showed that figure to be an utter folly. The accredited list in the book shows approximately 4500 songs to Rafi's tally. Singh Sahab was very confident in his research and even offered a small reward for every song submitted to him, not contained in the book. Rafians took up the challenge and began inundating him with supplementary songs and he was then forced to rescind the offer. I myself have around 6K songs of Rafi and I know of other collectors who claim to have 8K to 9k songs but they refuse to allow anyone to scrutinise their lists. I believe Rafi's tally is probably around the 8K mark if we take in his regional songs, the non-film albums as well his songs from shelved movies. Conversely, Singh Sahab's list showed it was Ashaji who is the runaway leader in HFM.

Also Romalibhai, what is your opinion on Ghantasala Sahab; many of my friends from South India say he is the epitome of Southern singers and that his reputation is on par with Rafi's legacy in HFM. I don't understand any Southern languages but that has never stopped me from appreciating the songs from that region. However, no matter how much I've tried I just couldn't get into Ghantasala's voice. Whereas, I'm enamoured of and appreciate the other greats such as Yesudas, Hariharan and Balasubrahmanyam. I suspect this might the be case as the latter three have a large body of work in HFM and my first exposure to them was via their HFM songs, while Ghantasalaji only a few; incredibly one with Rafi Sahab (link below). Ghantasala's incredible skill is obvious but to my ears Rafi's voice has better clarity, resonance and a firmer tonal quality (link below).

Apologies for the thesis, but I would love to hear your opinions on the points raised..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t3DCCBtgEWI
Kya Taqalluf Hai Wallah (Rafi, Bhupinder & Asha)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yjAy2nqJToo
Zamaane Se Kuchh Log (Yesudas)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HysmoQbUXMo
Badi Der Bhayi Nandlala (Ghantasala & Rafi)
 
CricketCartoons said:
He was a fine singer, just that I don't like this particular kind of voice (soft and effeminate) in male singers, and it includes sabbir kumar, anwar hussain, mohammad aziz and sonu nigam. But at least rafi was original, while these others tried to copy his style. also not a fan of addressing singers and actors as sahab.
Click to expand...

I appreciate you expanding on your thoughts CCbhai.

I don't concur with your judgement on the effeminate nature of Rafi Sahab's voice. Indeed, three things need to be taken into account here; firstly many of the songs have been adjusted to raise the pitch and as a result his voice sounds thinner and a lot higher than normal. I'd invite you to research this of your own accord; don't listen to the voice, skip that and instead listen to the interluding pieces of music between the antaras and focus your ears on the violins. If you're familiar with hearing live instruments you will immediately notice the sound is not in the normal register and is lot more higher and hence screechy; violins sound nothing like this. Secondly, HFM was notorious for using outdated methods of sound recording until at least the mid 1970s. The equipment they were using was atrocious at picking up the bass aspect of sound and thus we're mostly hearing the mid range and higher aspects of what's captured. Finally, the fact that the sound is recorded in mono, which means the voice and the instruments are all on one aural plateau. Whatever is the more punchier sound will dominate the recording and as result the lower sounds are drowned out.

Of all the HFM singers at that time only Rafi can be heard consistently singing in unison with a 100 piece orchestra as he could raise his powerful voice above the music. Conversely, if you listen to other singers' songs which include large orchestral arrangements, you'll immediately notice when they're singing the instruments are hushed so their voice is not drowned out.

I'm not fond of Rafi Sahab's deriatives either - I prefer singers to find their own niche. However, I find it incredible that even while Rafi was alive there were three clones vying for some of the limelight. Mahendra Kapoorji was Rafi's only student and had forged a career while Rafi was the indisputable king. We also had Anwar trying to carve out a career during the early 70s and then Shabbir at the end of 70s waiting in the wings.

I've included a link below with Rafi Sahab singing Man Tadpat Hari Darshan Ko from a Door Darshan broadcast. You can hear his voice has a proper bass punch which is missing from what we normally hear on his HFM songs..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VJvrFklak78
 
MP2011 said:
A few more personal Rafi sahab favorites,

Kaun hai jo sapno mein aya
Abhi na jao chodkar
Kabhi khud pe kabhi halaat pe
Hum bekhudi mein tumko pukare
Click to expand...

A gorgeous list of songs MPji. Was it contrived or inadvertent that three of your songs involve input from Jaidev? He obviously composed Kabhi Khud Pe and Abhi Na Jao but was also Dada Burman's assistant in Kala Pani, which Hum Bekhudi hails from.

Jaidev sadly didn't receive the accolades he was worthy of and his name is hardly mentioned when we hear discussions about the golden era of HFM. However, he was very talented and I feel a much better MD than some of his contemporaries. His genius can be gauged from his compositions and although he doesn't have a large body of work, whatever he worked on stood out from the crowd. He was the first MD to win the National Award three times but unfortunately commercial success and the adulation this generates always alluded him.

Not many are aware of the fact that following the huge success of Hum Dono he was given the assignment for Guide. The two most aurally iconic songs from that movie, Tere Mere Sapne and Din Dhal Jaaye were actually his compositions. However, for some reason the Anand siblings chose to replace him with Dada Burman midway through the project and Jaidev was relegated to the assistant's role.

When Jaidev Sahab passed away it was reported that he was in penury and was living in a rented room. Apart from a few items of clothing, his sole possession was a harmonium..
 
Pascal Gambit said:
A gorgeous list of songs MPji. Was it contrived or inadvertent that three of your songs involve input from Jaidev? He obviously composed Kabhi Khud Pe and Abhi Na Jao but was also Dada Burman's assistant in Kala Pani, which Hum Bekhudi hails from.

Jaidev sadly didn't receive the accolades he was worthy of and his name is hardly mentioned when we hear discussions about the golden era of HFM. However, he was very talented and I feel a much better MD than some of his contemporaries. His genius can be gauged from his compositions and although he doesn't have a large body of work, whatever he worked on stood out from the crowd. He was the first MD to win the National Award three times but unfortunately commercial success and the adulation this generates always alluded him.

Not many are aware of the fact that following the huge success of Hum Dono he was given the assignment for Guide. The two most aurally iconic songs from that movie, Tere Mere Sapne and Din Dhal Jaaye were actually his compositions. However, for some reason the Anand siblings chose to replace him with Dada Burman midway through the project and Jaidev was relegated to the assistant's role.

When Jaidev Sahab passed away it was reported that he was in penury and was living in a rented room. Apart from a few items of clothing, his sole possession was a harmonium..
Click to expand...
It was just a coincidence that 3/4 those songs were composed by Jaidev. Besides Hum Dono, he had some other hits to his credit like, Gaman, Gharonda etc. Amongst them, I'm an absolute fan of this Gazal, one of my all time favorites, Smita Patil was immense in this movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy--rFE7fag

As you said, he didn't get much work despite his obvious talent and hence couldn't get his due which happens especially during the times when there is already so much talent in the industry.

Happens in all walks of life!

As for Guide, didn't know that those 2 numbers were composed by Jaidev himself! Out of these 2, Tere Mere Sapne is a personal favorite, absolutely love this song.
 
MP2011 said:
It was just a coincidence that 3/4 those songs were composed by Jaidev. Besides Hum Dono, he had some other hits to his credit like, Gaman, Gharonda etc. Amongst them, I'm an absolute fan of this Gazal, one of my all time favorites, Smita Patil was immense in this movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy--rFE7fag

As you said, he didn't get much work despite his obvious talent and hence couldn't get his due which happens especially during the times when there is already so much talent in the industry.

Happens in all walks of life!

As for Guide, didn't know that those 2 numbers were composed by Jaidev himself! Out of these 2, Tere Mere Sapne is a personal favorite, absolutely love this song.
Click to expand...

Virtually every song you've listed from the advent of our discussion, are amongst my favourites MPbhai. The fact that Gaman is one of your favourite albums further underscores my feeling that we appear to have very similar musical tastes - it's one of my most cherished albums from that era and one that I would consider to be a genuine desert island disc.

I absolutely adore the song you've highlighted as well as its singer Chhaya Ganguli and have often wondered why she wasn't heard more frequently. More so as I prefer female vocalists with a voice that has a heavy tonal timbre.

Virtually every song from Gaman is a masterpiece and its plain to see why it won Jaidev Sahab his first National Award. Be it the aforementioned song or the enchanting thumbri Ras Ke Bhare Taure Nain, or the two pensive ghazals Seene Mein Jalan and Ajib Saneha Mujhpar (same signature notation as Kabhi Khud Pe Kabhi Halaat Pe and Hariharan's debut song), all were as they say, ek se badhkar ek. Indeed the song lyrics only add to the album's charm. I'm very fond of the art house productions of that era and this is easily one of the better movies of that genre.

I concur with your point about the sheer number of great MDs Jaidev had to contend with to secure work. If only we look at the assistants that the pack leaders had under their wings, one gets the idea of how much talent was around. So for instance Hemantda's assistants were Kalyanji and Ravi, S D Burman had Jaidev and his son Rahul, O P Nayyar's assistant was G S Kohli and Naushad had Ghulam Mohammad and Shafi Mohammad in his camp. Each of those assistants was a composer in their own right.

I should have outlined that my point was more to do with the second string of composers who were mainly working in B and C grade movies and yet still had a large body of work to their credit. Jaidev was far superior to many of those MDs and I feel he could have easily secured a lot more work had he been willing to consider working for movies with smaller budgets. In any case, I think he came to this realisation himself in the 70s when his standards had obviously been lowered.

Tere Mere Sapne is such a gorgeous, romantic song and again a personal favorite. At the turn of the millennium, a poll was conducting amongst MDs to ascertain which HFM song was the favourite of the professionals. Mann Re Tu Kahe by Roshan Sahab (another underrated MD) was the number one choice; Tere Mere Sapne came second. Thus, we had two Rafi songs, at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of their emotional flavour occupying the top two spots. Conversely, it was amusing to watch plenty of parochial journalists of Bengali origin going ga-ga over the second choice song and its composer S D Burman, but not giving Roshan Sahab or his song the same level of attention. Contrast them to the knowledgable journalists of yesteryear, who would've known instantly whose song it actually was from the outset and they also would have given Roshan the limelight that he was due..
 
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Pascal Gambit said:
Virtually every song you've listed from the advent of our discussion, are amongst my favourites MPbhai. The fact that Gaman is one of your favourite albums further underscores my feeling that we appear to have very similar musical tastes - it's one of my most cherished albums from that era and one that I would consider to be a genuine desert island disc.

I absolutely adore the song you've highlighted as well as its singer Chhaya Ganguli and have often wondered why she wasn't heard more frequently. More so as I prefer female vocalists with a voice that has a heavy tonal timbre.

Virtually every song from Gaman is a masterpiece and its plain to see why it won Jaidev Sahab his first National Award. Be it the aforementioned song or the enchanting thumbri Ras Ke Bhare Taure Nain, or the two pensive ghazals Seene Mein Jalan and Ajib Saneha Mujhpar (same signature notation as Kabhi Khud Pe Kabhi Halaat Pe and Hariharan's debut song), all were as they say, ek se badhkar ek. Indeed the song lyrics only add to the album's charm. I'm very fond of the art house productions of that era and this is easily one of the better movies of that genre.

I concur with your point about the sheer number of great MDs Jaidev had to contend with to secure work. If only we look at the assistants that the pack leaders had under their wings, one gets the idea of how much talent was around. So for instance Hemantda's assistants were Kalyanji and Ravi, S D Burman had Jaidev and his son Rahul, O P Nayyar's assistant was G S Kohli and Naushad had Ghulam Mohammad and Shafi Mohammad in his camp. Each of those assistants was a composer in their own right.

I should have outlined that my point was more to do with the second string of composers who were mainly working in B and C grade movies and yet still had a large body of work to their credit. Jaidev was far superior to many of those MDs and I feel he could have easily secured a lot more work had he been willing to consider working for movies with smaller budgets. In any case, I think he came to this realisation himself in the 70s when his standards had obviously been lowered.

Tere Mere Sapne is such a gorgeous, romantic song and again a personal favorite. At the turn of the millennium, a poll was conducting amongst MDs to ascertain which HFM song was the favourite of the professionals. Mann Re Tu Kahe by Roshan Sahab (another underrated MD) was the number one choice; Tere Mere Sapne came second. Thus, we had two Rafi songs, at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of their emotional flavour occupying the top two spots. Conversely, it was amusing to watch plenty of parochial journalists of Bengali origin going ga-ga over the second choice song and its composer S D Burman, but not giving Roshan Sahab or his song the same level of attention. Contrast them to the knowledgable journalists of yesteryear, who would've known instantly whose song it actually was from the outset and they also would have given Roshan the limelight that he was due..
Click to expand...
Apologies for replying late!

Thanks for such a detailed reply! Got to know so much from this.
 
I always compartmentalized my music. Having a ghazal as film music used to cause some consternation to me previously.

I used to listen to Jagjit & Chitra Singh, Mehdi Hassan and Ghulam Ali and thought film music was better left to Latas, Kishore and Rafis. For some reason never felt Asha Bhosale taking to Ghazal in "In Aakhon ki Masti mein" as a genuine ghazal voice. Not that she didn't do justice but I felt that there is a purity of genre and it should be left to the foremost exponent of that art.

Same for hindustani classical music (shastriya sangeet). While you could have an manna dey or Rafi or lata taking occasional alaap but they cant stand up to Pandit Bhimsen Joshi or Pt. Jasraj or Kishori Amonkar. It is a different level of vocal control altogether and though not popular I have had the pleasure of listening to them live since I was a kid thanks to my father who is a classical singer himself. It is just mindboggling what they used to do.

As far as popular music is concerned (Film music) I like to listen to all types but the ones that remain in my head whole day are the Kishore kumar ones. Ashaji used to say, Kishore kumar listened to music very carefully and one who listens carefully sings very well.

Then I grew up and got exposed to and used so many different types of music that I feel there is a a test cricket, an ODI and a T20 type of music. you can pick and choose what you like.
 
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Sorry late to this party

I have a small youtube channel and FB group called Desi Vinyl Junkies, dedicated to Bollywood Vinyl.

sharing some of my favorites Mohd Rafi vinyl from my collection, please do like and subscribe. :)

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