My argument with Indians on Kashmir attack at an American University

[Slog]

So I go to one of the universities here in the US.

And I am a member of the student council here.

So in our college literally no non-desi knows about the Kashmir attack. And some of our Indian friends decided there needs to be awareness and wanted a vigil to commemorate the event and pay respects to the Indian soldiers who were killed by separatists.

Anyways to hold such an event all requests have to go through the Student Council (so essentially through me and the council).

For some inexplicable reason the Indian community went straight to one of the assistant deans who also happens to be Indian and got the whole vigil and everything approved.

So yesterday I got the email that this is happening and that the student council should have it on the school calendar and send a mass e-mail.

This really ****** me off mostly due to protocol not being followed.

I got the Dean of the college (white guy) involved and also asked for a transcript of what will be read at the vigil.

So one the main contentions is this. There would be a short explanation of what happened which will be read as part of the event.

Some of the phrases were along these lines : “In memory of Indian soldiers martyred by terrorists’ , ‘terrorist attack in india’ , ‘attack from across the border.’

I referred to UN and American interpretation of Kashmir being disputed territory and suggested that ‘in india’ Be changed to ‘in the disputed territory of kashmir’ And ‘local separatist carrying out attack on soldiers.’

The dean of the college has agreed to it and I also told the school board that as part of the student council it’s my responsibility to ensure that there is no politics in school events.

Due to the tension which has sprung up the university has clamped down and said that the vigil is cancelled. Now there will be none.

The Indian community is very ****** at this (and probably me) obviously but I think I did the right thing.

We are not in india. We are in the US. So the attack was carried out in disputed territory by a local youth. These are facts and the school has sided with me on this. I’m not sure what the Indian assistant dean thinks of this?

How would you have tackled this situation? How could I have handled it better?

 

[Slog]

If I have to be honest I’m fine with the end result

 

[ElRaja]

handled well dude! kudos.

 

[GBK_Fan]

Think you handled it well. At the same time, don’t match the jingoism that some people exhibit. The university and workplace should be no place for partisan biases anyway.

 

[Rayyman]

You're in student council? )

 

[King-Misbah]

Well done brother; PP is proud of you

 

[King-Misbah]

You're in student council? )

It shows how being active in unions and politics can assist to portray a better image for Pakistan/ Muslims.

 

[aloo paratha]

Perfectly handled.

 

[Sachin136]

Even neutral sources are referring to it as a terrorist attack. A terrorist organization based in Pakistan has also claimed responsibility. And I'm sure you know all that already.

 

[PakLFC]

Even neutral sources are referring to it as a terrorist attack. A terrorist organization based in Pakistan has also claimed responsibility. And I'm sure you know all that already.

It was a terrorist attack for sure then again Kashmiris face Indian terrorism every day. There is no evidence of any Pak organisation involved. What happened was after facing great humiliation from your soldiers the enraged victim blew himself up. India only has itself to blame.

 

[Bengaluru]

So not really an argument with Indians is it? You are just peed off that they by-passed you and instead of confronting them about it as a good student council leader, you just went crying to the dean and moaned about semantics of the language used. Meanwhile, in your entire post you have not appeared to have shown any emotion for the lives lost regardless of where it took place or who was responsible for it. You have said it is your responsibility to ensure there is no politics in school but yet you have gone and played politics over this. D*** move and no wonder the Indians are miffed.

 

[King-Misbah]

So not really an argument with Indians is it? You are just peed off that they by-passed you and instead of confronting them about it as a good student council leader, you just went crying to the dean and moaned about semantics of the language used. Meanwhile, in your entire post you have not appeared to have shown any emotion for the lives lost regardless of where it took place or who was responsible for it. You have said it is your responsibility to ensure there is no politics in school but yet you have gone and played politics over this. D*** move and no wonder the Indians are miffed.

When the innocent Kashmiris are degraded, blinded, raped and killed by the Indian army then do indians care?

 

[Syed1]

Well done Sloggy bhai.... the Indians bowled a full-toss and you hit it out of the park.



I'm happy that the vigil got cancelled altogether.

 

[ahsan17]

Even neutral sources are referring to it as a terrorist attack. A terrorist organization based in Pakistan has also claimed responsibility. And I'm sure you know all that already.

Was the person who carried out the attack a Pakistani? Where did he get explosives from?

 

[Donal Cozzie]

I'm mixed here.

On the one hand you are technically correct and it's not your fault, you didnt want it cancelled, just technicalities changed to be correct in official speak.

But on the other hand , and this is my cynicism here, its not a huge issue. Dont get me wrong referring to Kashmir as contested is totally fine, but changing the wording from terrorists to separatists just strikes me as nitpicking, because whatever side youre on the people responsible for this are ****.

I guess the fallout depends on whether anyone in your uni has relatives or friends involved in the incident,

Personally speaking, I think you should have contacted the vigil organisers directly, stated clearly your support of the vigil and condemning the act itself, and then explained clearly that, as per UN rules, Kashmir is contested or what not. I personally wouldnt have mentioned the "separatist vs terrorist" angle but thats just me. Of course I could well be naive here you may still have gotten a negative response, but at least then you could have said you tried resolving it directly with them before getting the deen involved. Couldve gone to Plan B then which would be what youve done now.

Dont get me wrong youve done nothing wrong here and deserve credit for being so engaged in the process lol, but some people are gonna twist this as "The Pakistani didnt want us to remember our dead, supported the terrorists and went to the deen to get it cancelled". Which obviously isnt true but, humans never miss an opportunity to stir up lies and im seeing lots of rhetoric in Indian circles atm which is dangerously right wing.

But in short, shouldve tried talking to the Indians first. By going over their heads youve likely ticked them off quite a lot. Also, there is a moral issue here; is any vigil political? Surely everyone deserves the right to hold vigils for their dead? Otherwise you could claim technically any vigil is political and try cancel it.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

You could still try and talk to them if theres any possible way of a solution, but I also know tensions are hot and you could well be told where to go. I dont know enough to say really. Perhaps a joint Pakistani-Indian one vigil? Im sure most Pakistanis are equally dismayed at what happened.

 

[slipcatch]

Was the person who carried out the attack a Pakistani? Where did he get explosives from?

Watch him disappear from this thread

 

[King-Misbah]

Was the person who carried out the attack a Pakistani? Where did he get explosives from?

Who claimed the attack? Kalbushan Yadav also accepts his role in terrorism in Pakistan which killed thousands. Still the case is at ICJ.

 

[mustang]

So I go to one of the universities here in the US.

And I am a member of the student council here.

So in our college literally no non-desi knows about the Kashmir attack. And some of our Indian friends decided there needs to be awareness and wanted a vigil to commemorate the event and pay respects to the Indian soldiers who were killed by separatists.

Anyways to hold such an event all requests have to go through the Student Council (so essentially through me and the council).

For some inexplicable reason the Indian community went straight to one of the assistant deans who also happens to be Indian and got the whole vigil and everything approved.

So yesterday I got the email that this is happening and that the student council should have it on the school calendar and send a mass e-mail.

This really ****** me off mostly due to protocol not being followed.

I got the Dean of the college (white guy) involved and also asked for a transcript of what will be read at the vigil.

So one the main contentions is this. There would be a short explanation of what happened which will be read as part of the event.

Some of the phrases were along these lines : “In memory of Indian soldiers martyred by terrorists’ , ‘terrorist attack in india’ , ‘attack from across the border.’

I referred to UN and American interpretation of Kashmir being disputed territory and suggested that ‘in india’ Be changed to ‘in the disputed territory of kashmir’ And ‘local separatist carrying out attack on soldiers.’

The dean of the college has agreed to it and I also told the school board that as part of the student council it’s my responsibility to ensure that there is no politics in school events.

Due to the tension which has sprung up the university has clamped down and said that the vigil is cancelled. Now there will be none.

The Indian community is very ****** at this (and probably me) obviously but I think I did the right thing.

We are not in india. We are in the US. So the attack was carried out in disputed territory by a local youth. These are facts and the school has sided with me on this. I’m not sure what the Indian assistant dean thinks of this?

How would you have tackled this situation? How could I have handled it better?

The right thing to do here as a student council leader (and to be a positive example for others) is confronting the organizers head on and talking to them. As the other posters say, nitpicking on language with the Dean is a passive aggressive approach which you never want in life in general.

The other posters who are supporting you are doing so because they share the common end goal with you (end goal = stopping the event from happening) and they do not seem to care about the means you used. I'm not commenting on the end goal but commenting on the means you have used, which is far from ideal as a good student leader.

 

[nextover666666]

The right thing to do here as a student council leader (and to be a positive example for others) is confronting the organizers head on and talking to them. As the other posters say, nitpicking on language with the Dean is a passive aggressive approach which you never want in life in general.

The other posters who are supporting you are doing so because they share the common end goal with you (end goal = stopping the event from happening) and they do not seem to care about the means you used. I'm not commenting on the end goal but commenting on the means you have used, which is far from ideal as a good student leader.

Of course your going to hate on the brothers effort

 

[mustang]

Of course your going to hate on the brothers effort

Of course you only want people to agree with what you say. Anyone who questions your reasoning is in the wrong .... keep saying cheers with your dreamers no matter how ridiculous the logical reasoning is ... rock on!!

 

[Pakpak]

Well played. Indians overseas are very clever maintaing their image and degrading ours. Not all of them ofcoirse but some of them while Pakistanis are not organised

 

[nextover666666]

Of course you only want people to agree with what you say. Anyone who questions your reasoning is in the wrong .... keep saying cheers with your dreamers no matter how ridiculous the logical reasoning is ... rock on!!

I can say the exact same thing about you but I'll leave at that you have your view I have mine

 

[mustang]

Well played. Indians overseas are very clever maintaing their image and degrading ours. Not all of them ofcoirse but some of them while Pakistanis are not organised

Seriously dude, what's with the constant victim mentality!! You make some seriously flawed generalizing type statements but add a namesake caveat stating "Not all of them ofcoirse" to avoid the flak of using a broad brush.

 

[mustang]

I can say the exact same thing about you but I'll leave at that you have your view I have mine

Hmm ... actually no you cannot. I clearly stated that I was only questioning the means and have no comments regarding the end, thus staying neutral about the end. You still question the validity of my comment on the means just because I'm not joining you in praising the end. Flawed logic at your end I would say.

To keep it simple if the logic is too complicated for you to understand - I don't care about end result but care about his method. You are judging me on #2 simply because I'm only being neutral on #1 which is nonsensical.

 

[Pak Warrior]

Job well done my brother! I think you handled the situation perfectly. You didn't try or want to get the vigil cancelled, so its not your fault there. They did not follow proper protocol, and went over your head, so you just did the same thing and they got the result that the dean sees as most proper and correct. Nothing wrong was done here.

 

[Slog]

I'm mixed here.

On the one hand you are technically correct and it's not your fault, you didnt want it cancelled, just technicalities changed to be correct in official speak.

But on the other hand , and this is my cynicism here, its not a huge issue. Dont get me wrong referring to Kashmir as contested is totally fine, but changing the wording from terrorists to separatists just strikes me as nitpicking, because whatever side youre on the people responsible for this are ****.

I guess the fallout depends on whether anyone in your uni has relatives or friends involved in the incident,

Personally speaking, I think you should have contacted the vigil organisers directly, stated clearly your support of the vigil and condemning the act itself, and then explained clearly that, as per UN rules, Kashmir is contested or what not. I personally wouldnt have mentioned the "separatist vs terrorist" angle but thats just me. Of course I could well be naive here you may still have gotten a negative response, but at least then you could have said you tried resolving it directly with them before getting the deen involved. Couldve gone to Plan B then which would be what youve done now.

Dont get me wrong youve done nothing wrong here and deserve credit for being so engaged in the process lol, but some people are gonna twist this as "The Pakistani didnt want us to remember our dead, supported the terrorists and went to the deen to get it cancelled". Which obviously isnt true but, humans never miss an opportunity to stir up lies and im seeing lots of rhetoric in Indian circles atm which is dangerously right wing.

But in short, shouldve tried talking to the Indians first. By going over their heads youve likely ticked them off quite a lot. Also, there is a moral issue here; is any vigil political? Surely everyone deserves the right to hold vigils for their dead? Otherwise you could claim technically any vigil is political and try cancel it.

At no point did I even remotely suggest or think that cancelling was in the table so I am kind of disappointed. I told the head of the Indian club that I totally sympathise and want the event to happen. And before I went to the dean I did reach out the president of the Indian business club and asked him why was the protocol not followed. There was no straight answer. Basically they thought that going to an Indian dean would be less hassle than going through us.

As a last ditch I said we can have a general vigil for all deaths due to terrorism and then in the notes mention the Kashmir attack but I guess by that point the ship had sailed.

 

[srh]

wish all these desis keep their conflicts at home and dont bring it here;

 

[ahsan17]

IMO, pointing out the terrorist v/s separatist distinction was unnecessary. The fact that the organizers were not being neutral on other fronts, such as "cross-border terrorism" and not calling it a disputed territory was enough.

 

[msb314]

I think you did the right thing.

It is of course a very sensitive issue right now so there is bound to be a lot of emotion. Stick to facts and logic and folks will side with you if anyone directly confronts you about the turn of events.

 

[Slog]

IMO, pointing out the terrorist v/s separatist distinction was unnecessary. The fact that the organizers were not being neutral on other fronts, such as "cross-border terrorism" and not calling it a disputed territory was enough.

The heading of the event would still be ‘Condeming terrorist attack on Indian soldiers’ or something along those lines.

 

[sjahmed23]

Good job man big props. If this was at my university us Pakistanis would be holding a vigil for all the kashmiris maimed by the indian forces and all the muslims killed by cow vigilantees. These people only understand when you talk in their language.

 

[Slog]

Even neutral sources are referring to it as a terrorist attack. A terrorist organization based in Pakistan has also claimed responsibility. And I'm sure you know all that already.

It was still going to be referred to as a terrorist attack regardless of whether I agree with that or not. So that’s not the issue

 

[Pakistanian]

Good job dude, you stood your ground. Unfortunately most Pakistani-Americans and Kashmiris are so brainwashed, ignorant, and have no spine that they let stuff like this slide by. I've tried to get my msa to do an event or something for Kashmir like they do for Palestine and Rohingyas but it never gets approved cause they don't want to offend the Indian Muslim members and ruin the "unity of the community" lol.

 

[CricVet]

Wonderful job. Especially when you made the Indian club president aware of the proper procedure to follow and the CUTE answer was that they took a convenient route...LOL...yeaahhh...Anyway, they do realize now that what not to do in the future.

 

[Pakistanian]

You could still try and talk to them if theres any possible way of a solution, but I also know tensions are hot and you could well be told where to go. I dont know enough to say really. Perhaps a joint Pakistani-Indian one vigil? Im sure most Pakistanis are equally dismayed at what happened.

There doesn't really have to be one in America, there are people dying all over the world cause of violence but we don't hold vigils for every single tragedy. The indian student org trying to force this on the school calendar is ridiculous. I don't think you understand what a big deal is this to put this on your institute's calendar, like this did not even happen on American soil. I don't even remember having a vigil for the Parkland shooting or the Paris attacks where some Americans died.

 

[Pakistanian]

I'm mixed here.

On the one hand you are technically correct and it's not your fault, you didnt want it cancelled, just technicalities changed to be correct in official speak.

But on the other hand , and this is my cynicism here, its not a huge issue. Dont get me wrong referring to Kashmir as contested is totally fine, but changing the wording from terrorists to separatists just strikes me as nitpicking, because whatever side youre on the people responsible for this are ****.

I guess the fallout depends on whether anyone in your uni has relatives or friends involved in the incident,

Personally speaking, I think you should have contacted the vigil organisers directly, stated clearly your support of the vigil and condemning the act itself, and then explained clearly that, as per UN rules, Kashmir is contested or what not. I personally wouldnt have mentioned the "separatist vs terrorist" angle but thats just me. Of course I could well be naive here you may still have gotten a negative response, but at least then you could have said you tried resolving it directly with them before getting the deen involved. Couldve gone to Plan B then which would be what youve done now.

Dont get me wrong youve done nothing wrong here and deserve credit for being so engaged in the process lol, but some people are gonna twist this as "The Pakistani didnt want us to remember our dead, supported the terrorists and went to the deen to get it cancelled". Which obviously isnt true but, humans never miss an opportunity to stir up lies and im seeing lots of rhetoric in Indian circles atm which is dangerously right wing.

But in short, shouldve tried talking to the Indians first. By going over their heads youve likely ticked them off quite a lot. Also, there is a moral issue here; is any vigil political? Surely everyone deserves the right to hold vigils for their dead? Otherwise you could claim technically any vigil is political and try cancel it.

Would you call the Kurds that attack Turkish and Iraqi soldiers terrorists or separatists? Or is it that okay cause you like them?

 

[moghul]

Even neutral sources are referring to it as a terrorist attack. A terrorist organization based in Pakistan has also claimed responsibility. And I'm sure you know all that already.

It was carried out by a local young man, that is the fact, rest is Indian view.

 

[Sachin136]

There doesn't really have to be one in America, there are people dying all over the world cause of violence but we don't hold vigils for every single tragedy. The indian student org trying to force this on the school calendar is ridiculous. I don't think you understand what a big deal is this to put this on your institute's calendar, like this did not even happen on American soil. I don't even remember having a vigil for the Parkland shooting or the Paris attacks where some Americans died.

Not sure if you studied in NA or not, but at the schools I went to, there were activities like these (vigils, protests, etc) by random groups multiple times a week.

There aren't 40 people dying all over the world by terrorist attacks every day. A terrorist attack in the US or France or UK makes headlines for days.

It was carried out by a local young man, that is the fact, rest is Indian view.

Are you denying the fact that a terrorist organization based in Pakistan claimed that they were behind it?

Are you denying that neutral sources everywhere have called it a terrorist attack?

 

[Pakistanian]

Not sure if you studied in NA or not, but at the schools I went to, there were activities like these (vigils, protests, etc) by random groups multiple times a week.

There aren't 40 people dying all over the world by terrorist attacks every day. A terrorist attack in the US or France or UK makes headlines for days.



Are you denying the fact that a terrorist organization based in Pakistan claimed that they were behind it?

Are you denying that neutral sources everywhere have called it a terrorist attack?

I was born and raised here unlike you and I'm currently a college student at a large state school, we don't hold vigils for tragedies that happen overseas and certainly don't add them to the school's calendar. Random groups holding a vigil is totally different from the university officially holding one.

Are you denying that neutral sources everywhere have called it a terrorist attack?

What neutral sources? A link from a western or any global news org isn't a "neutral source" lmao. The only "neutral source" would be the geneva convention which defines acts of violence.

 

[Slog]

Wonderful job. Especially when you made the Indian club president aware of the proper procedure to follow and the CUTE answer was that they took a convenient route...LOL...yeaahhh...Anyway, they do realize now that what not to do in the future.

lol yea. as if they would go to the assistant dean directly if he was any other nationality but indian

both the assistant dean and the club were left with egg on their faces.

They were copied on an email from the school's dean that in the future please ensure that clubs and school admin both follow the correct protocol. It was supposed to happen tomorrow.

I mean im not happy how it turned out cuz I wasnt opposed to it. Infact Id told the rest of the student council lets just let it slide and I just asked the indian club for a transcript of what they will read out before the vigil. And obv that didnt go well when I asked them to make legitimate changes. Tho the event being cancelled altogether is totally independent of that.

Interesting few days ahead. Atleast on my end I have called up the indian club guy that this is not personal but professional and i obv feel sad that soldiers sent to occupied kashmir died due to a conflict they did not start.

 

[pillionrider]

Interesting few days ahead. Atleast on my end I have called up the indian club guy that this is not personal but professional and i obv feel sad that soldiers sent to occupied kashmir died due to a conflict they did not start.

Looks like you decided this is the better option to sleeping with one eye open.

Well done

 

[Slog]

Looks like you decided this is the better option to sleeping with one eye open.

Well done

Haha maybe. Though the guy prolly didnt appreciate me calling it occupied kashmir

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Think you handled it well. At the same time, don’t match the jingoism that some people exhibit. The university and workplace should be no place for partisan biases anyway.

Agreed. One of the benefits of living abroad is that you can put yourself apart from the jingoistic chest thumping which continues to dog Pakistan-India relations. Generally Indians and Pakistanis get along well outside of the subcontinent, the last thing you need is to carry over that poison to places like America.

 

[ahsan17]

Agreed. One of the benefits of living abroad is that you can put yourself apart from the jingoistic chest thumping which continues to dog Pakistan-India relations. Generally Indians and Pakistanis get along well outside of the subcontinent, the last thing you need is to carry over that poison to places like America.

US is one country where there are a lot more Indians than Pakistanis, even when accounting for the difference in population of both countries. Other western countries are a lot more balanced. The difference is even more pronounced in certain places within the US, like Silicon Valley. Some Indians there likely have never met Pakistanis, so it's possible for these kinds of things to happen there.

 

[IMMY69]

Slog,
You did absolutely the right thing.

I’ve said this before that I’ve found Indians here in the UK to be such back stabbers and this is exactly ether they did to Slog.

So in time I learned that if anyone, whoever they are, if they do this to me again then I will take them down... enough.

 

[Vegitto1]

So not really an argument with Indians is it? You are just peed off that they by-passed you and instead of confronting them about it as a good student council leader, you just went crying to the dean and moaned about semantics of the language used. Meanwhile, in your entire post you have not appeared to have shown any emotion for the lives lost regardless of where it took place or who was responsible for it. You have said it is your responsibility to ensure there is no politics in school but yet you have gone and played politics over this. D*** move and no wonder the Indians are miffed.

How about some remorse for innocent Kashmiris killed by your soldiers on a daily basis?

 

[rhony]

How about some remorse for innocent Kashmiris killed by your soldiers on a daily basis?

Dude, if you know any Kashmiris tell them not to pelt stones or bomb people. Nobody is gonna kill office and school goers. Guns, bombs or even talks won't matter. Demographics have changed and I read somewhere that an average married woman in Kashmir has 5 kids. How will all these people fit in that valley in 20 years? Kashmiris are on a suicidal path with absolutely no favorable result ever. The establishment they are fighting is projected to be one of the strongest nations in the world in a couple of decades. So, tell them to be good citizens and think practically. If they follow the same path, there is no option but death and there is no glory in death

 

[Vegitto1]

Dude, if you know any Kashmiris tell them not to pelt stones or bomb people. Nobody is gonna kill office and school goers. Guns, bombs or even talks won't matter. Demographics have changed and I read somewhere that an average married woman in Kashmir has 5 kids. How will all these people fit in that valley in 20 years? Kashmiris are on a suicidal path with absolutely no favorable result ever. The establishment they are fighting is projected to be one of the strongest nations in the world in a couple of decades. So, tell them to be good citizens and think practically. If they follow the same path, there is no option but death and there is no glory in death

In your opinion, throwing stones at army officers, wearing riot gear, merits being shot at? So for you, that is a proportionate response?

In the UK, if you throw stone at the someone you get arrested not shot at. But I guess in IOK different set of norms apply.

How many times have your military abused and killed Kashmiris without provocation? Or are you going to deny that it never happens?

 

[Vegitto1]

Dude, if you know any Kashmiris tell them not to pelt stones or bomb people. Nobody is gonna kill office and school goers. Guns, bombs or even talks won't matter. Demographics have changed and I read somewhere that an average married woman in Kashmir has 5 kids. How will all these people fit in that valley in 20 years? Kashmiris are on a suicidal path with absolutely no favorable result ever. The establishment they are fighting is projected to be one of the strongest nations in the world in a couple of decades. So, tell them to be good citizens and think practically. If they follow the same path, there is no option but death and there is no glory in death

"Last week six soldiers, including a colonel and a captain, were given life sentences by a court martial for their role in the 2010 killing of six local Kashmiri civilians, whom they had falsely claimed were extremist infiltrators in order to gain a cash reward. The incident prompted widespread rioting and anger."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-kashmir-accused-human-rights-abuses-coverup

Life sentence for killing 6 Kashmiris, and god knows whether these officers are even in jail or not, and even if they are, they will be out in 7 years on good behaviour.

But God Forbid, if a kashmiri throws a stone that strikes an army officer, that is a crime which merits execution on the spot.

 

[rhony]

"Last week six soldiers, including a colonel and a captain, were given life sentences by a court martial for their role in the 2010 killing of six local Kashmiri civilians, whom they had falsely claimed were extremist infiltrators in order to gain a cash reward. The incident prompted widespread rioting and anger."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-kashmir-accused-human-rights-abuses-coverup

Life sentence for killing 6 Kashmiris, and god knows whether these officers are even in jail or not, and even if they are, they will be out in 7 years on good behaviour.

But God Forbid, if a kashmiri throws a stone that strikes an army officer, that is a crime which merits execution on the spot.

Military abuses are unfortunate and are consoidered collateral damage in conflict zones. They got caught either way. Imagine the uproar if this happens in the rest of India. There needs to be a peaceful atmosphere first.

 

[rhony]

In your opinion, throwing stones at army officers, wearing riot gear, merits being shot at? So for you, that is a proportionate response?

In the UK, if you throw stone at the someone you get arrested not shot at. But I guess in IOK different set of norms apply.

How many times have your military abused and killed Kashmiris without provocation? Or are you going to deny that it never happens?

The proportional response is the army throwing stones at these people. Doesn't work that way. Somebody taking a stick to a knife fight and getting stabbed is not the fault of the person weilding the sword.

 

[Vegitto1]

The proportional response is the army throwing stones at these people. Doesn't work that way. Somebody taking a stick to a knife fight and getting stabbed is not the fault of the person weilding the sword.

Actually the proportional response is make use of your riot gear and wait for the stones to run out. And then arrest the miscreants.

"Taking stick a knife fight and then getting stabbed" example is quite silly. It is not a fight between parties of equal strength. This is about rebels vs the State. The State machinery must always take the moral high ground.

We Pakistanis might as well say "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" - every time Indians call a Kashmiri youth terrorist.

 

[CricVet]

US is one country where there are a lot more Indians than Pakistanis, even when accounting for the difference in population of both countries. Other western countries are a lot more balanced. The difference is even more pronounced in certain places within the US, like Silicon Valley. Some Indians there likely have never met Pakistanis, so it's possible for these kinds of things to happen there.

I lived in silicon valley (Los Altos) for many years. There was a significant Pak population in San Jose, Santa Clara, and Fremont back then. Indians might outnumber Pakistanis 1 to 6 but it is unlikely for Most Indians not to interact with Pakistanis. Indians and Pakistanis get along very well in that region since most of them are well educated and busy facing their own challenges in life without caring much about these petty issues.

 

[troodon]

Dude, if you know any Kashmiris tell them not to pelt stones or bomb people. Nobody is gonna kill office and school goers. Guns, bombs or even talks won't matter. Demographics have changed and I read somewhere that an average married woman in Kashmir has 5 kids. How will all these people fit in that valley in 20 years? Kashmiris are on a suicidal path with absolutely no favorable result ever. The establishment they are fighting is projected to be one of the strongest nations in the world in a couple of decades. So, tell them to be good citizens and think practically. If they follow the same path, there is no option but death and there is no glory in death

You are making too much sense here.

Kashmiris are on a steady diet of India hate and the dream of joining Pakistan which itself is teetering on bankruptcy. But they don’t care. They don’t want to be under non-Muslims.

I still remember Kashmiris raising slogans - Pakistan se Nata kya? La Ilah a illallah!! A whole generation were taught this and it is pouring into the newer generation too.

Kashmiris do not realize that they are not going to get freedom by throwing stones or random attacks on Indian army. They are simply wasting their time instead of getting educated and earn jobs in india’s Booming market.

Sadly, their cheerleaders across the border do not care how many die in this meaningless circus.

 

[Slog]

You are making too much sense here.

Kashmiris are on a steady diet of India hate and the dream of joining Pakistan which itself is teetering on bankruptcy. But they don’t care. They don’t want to be under non-Muslims.

I still remember Kashmiris raising slogans - Pakistan se Nata kya? La Ilah a illallah!! A whole generation were taught this and it is pouring into the newer generation too.

Kashmiris do not realize that they are not going to get freedom by throwing stones or random attacks on Indian army. They are simply wasting their time instead of getting educated and earn jobs in india’s Booming market.

Sadly, their cheerleaders across the border do not care how many die in this meaningless circus.

the current Kashmir generation is almost certainly more anti-India than the previous one

 

[Vegitto1]

You are making too much sense here.

Kashmiris are on a steady diet of India hate and the dream of joining Pakistan which itself is teetering on bankruptcy. But they don’t care. They don’t want to be under non-Muslims.

I still remember Kashmiris raising slogans - Pakistan se Nata kya? La Ilah a illallah!! A whole generation were taught this and it is pouring into the newer generation too.

Kashmiris do not realize that they are not going to get freedom by throwing stones or random attacks on Indian army. They are simply wasting their time instead of getting educated and earn jobs in india’s Booming market.

Sadly, their cheerleaders across the border do not care how many die in this meaningless circus.

I am sorry? wanting a right to practice your religion without getting lynched is meaningless circus? I guess new generation of Indians have realised that their ancestors were worshipping circus characters and therefore religion is no longer a priority for them.

For us, it is our identity and if Kashmiris want self-governance then they should have it.

 

[troodon]

I am sorry? wanting a right to practice your religion without getting lynched is meaningless circus? I guess new generation of Indians have realised that their ancestors were worshipping circus characters and therefore religion is no longer a priority for them.

For us, it is our identity and if Kashmiris want self-governance then they should have it.

Did India put a ban on Kashmiri mosques? Did India ban Islam in Kashmir?

So you think our ancestors were worshipping circus characters. At least it is Indian version of Circus characters.

Every religion has ridiculous stories including yours. But that would be derailing this thread.

 

[Vegitto1]

Did India put a ban on Kashmiri mosques? Did India ban Islam in Kashmir?

So you think our ancestors were worshipping circus characters. At least it is Indian version of Circus characters.

Every religion has ridiculous stories including yours. But that would be derailing this thread.

Apologise for the circus comment.

But, bottom line is Kashmir should be allowed independence.

 

[troodon]

Apologise for the circus comment.

But, bottom line is Kashmir should be allowed independence.

Not until India collapses like Soviet Russia. Which means not in the next few decades.

 

[Markhor]

I think it was handled correctly for the most part however I wouldn't have balked at calling it a terrorist act as it met the definition of one.

It's sad and also revealing of their biases that those students didn't think they'd get a fair hearing from you given you said you would've allowed the vigil to take place. Would they have avoided normal protocol had the head of the Council been of any other descent ? Think we know the answer - the giveaway being the assistant dean they chose to contact...

 

[rhony]

Actually the proportional response is make use of your riot gear and wait for the stones to run out. And then arrest the miscreants.

"Taking stick a knife fight and then getting stabbed" example is quite silly. It is not a fight between parties of equal strength. This is about rebels vs the State. The State machinery must always take the moral high ground.

We Pakistanis might as well say "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" - every time Indians call a Kashmiri youth terrorist.

You are right about proportional response and the moral high ground. However, that's the case if the fight is limited to just stone pelting and hasn't escalated to killing and bombing people.

Almost Every terrorist or freedom fighter in history has died a miserable death if violence was the path. State machinary will lose patience at some point and they did decades ago.

 

[Bewal Express]

So I go to one of the universities here in the US.

And I am a member of the student council here.

So in our college literally no non-desi knows about the Kashmir attack. And some of our Indian friends decided there needs to be awareness and wanted a vigil to commemorate the event and pay respects to the Indian soldiers who were killed by separatists.

Anyways to hold such an event all requests have to go through the Student Council (so essentially through me and the council).

For some inexplicable reason the Indian community went straight to one of the assistant deans who also happens to be Indian and got the whole vigil and everything approved.

So yesterday I got the email that this is happening and that the student council should have it on the school calendar and send a mass e-mail.

This really ****** me off mostly due to protocol not being followed.

I got the Dean of the college (white guy) involved and also asked for a transcript of what will be read at the vigil.

So one the main contentions is this. There would be a short explanation of what happened which will be read as part of the event.

Some of the phrases were along these lines : “In memory of Indian soldiers martyred by terrorists’ , ‘terrorist attack in india’ , ‘attack from across the border.’

I referred to UN and American interpretation of Kashmir being disputed territory and suggested that ‘in india’ Be changed to ‘in the disputed territory of kashmir’ And ‘local separatist carrying out attack on soldiers.’

The dean of the college has agreed to it and I also told the school board that as part of the student council it’s my responsibility to ensure that there is no politics in school events.

Due to the tension which has sprung up the university has clamped down and said that the vigil is cancelled. Now there will be none.

The Indian community is very ****** at this (and probably me) obviously but I think I did the right thing.

We are not in india. We are in the US. So the attack was carried out in disputed territory by a local youth. These are facts and the school has sided with me on this. I’m not sure what the Indian assistant dean thinks of this?

How would you have tackled this situation? How could I have handled it better?

Good job.

 

[Bewal Express]

So not really an argument with Indians is it? You are just peed off that they by-passed you and instead of confronting them about it as a good student council leader, you just went crying to the dean and moaned about semantics of the language used. Meanwhile, in your entire post you have not appeared to have shown any emotion for the lives lost regardless of where it took place or who was responsible for it. You have said it is your responsibility to ensure there is no politics in school but yet you have gone and played politics over this. D*** move and no wonder the Indians are miffed.

Can you quote times when you have shown remorse About the Kashmiris being raped, maimed and killed by an occupying army. For what's it's worth I take no pleasure in anyone's death and didn't take any pleasure from these deaths either.

 

[troodon]

I agree that Educational institutions should not be used for political dramas.

If you want to protest something, do it outside the campus.

 

[Haroon786]

So I go to one of the universities here in the US.

And I am a member of the student council here.

So in our college literally no non-desi knows about the Kashmir attack. And some of our Indian friends decided there needs to be awareness and wanted a vigil to commemorate the event and pay respects to the Indian soldiers who were killed by separatists.

Anyways to hold such an event all requests have to go through the Student Council (so essentially through me and the council).

For some inexplicable reason the Indian community went straight to one of the assistant deans who also happens to be Indian and got the whole vigil and everything approved.

So yesterday I got the email that this is happening and that the student council should have it on the school calendar and send a mass e-mail.

This really ****** me off mostly due to protocol not being followed.

I got the Dean of the college (white guy) involved and also asked for a transcript of what will be read at the vigil.

So one the main contentions is this. There would be a short explanation of what happened which will be read as part of the event.

Some of the phrases were along these lines : “In memory of Indian soldiers martyred by terrorists’ , ‘terrorist attack in india’ , ‘attack from across the border.’

I referred to UN and American interpretation of Kashmir being disputed territory and suggested that ‘in india’ Be changed to ‘in the disputed territory of kashmir’ And ‘local separatist carrying out attack on soldiers.’

The dean of the college has agreed to it and I also told the school board that as part of the student council it’s my responsibility to ensure that there is no politics in school events.

Due to the tension which has sprung up the university has clamped down and said that the vigil is cancelled. Now there will be none.

The Indian community is very ****** at this (and probably me) obviously but I think I did the right thing.

We are not in india. We are in the US. So the attack was carried out in disputed territory by a local youth. These are facts and the school has sided with me on this. I’m not sure what the Indian assistant dean thinks of this?

How would you have tackled this situation? How could I have handled it better?

Well handled - kudos.

Maybe you could have told them of the actual process they need to go through to host an event/vigil.

 

[ahmedzee]

One thing no indian is willing to accept is that "it was a terrorist attack by local separatists in the disputed region of Kashmir"

As per UN and the world, this should be the actual headlines.

 

[Bouncer]

So I go to one of the universities here in the US.

And I am a member of the student council here.

So in our college literally no non-desi knows about the Kashmir attack. And some of our Indian friends decided there needs to be awareness and wanted a vigil to commemorate the event and pay respects to the Indian soldiers who were killed by separatists.

Anyways to hold such an event all requests have to go through the Student Council (so essentially through me and the council).

For some inexplicable reason the Indian community went straight to one of the assistant deans who also happens to be Indian and got the whole vigil and everything approved.

So yesterday I got the email that this is happening and that the student council should have it on the school calendar and send a mass e-mail.

This really ****** me off mostly due to protocol not being followed.

I got the Dean of the college (white guy) involved and also asked for a transcript of what will be read at the vigil.

So one the main contentions is this. There would be a short explanation of what happened which will be read as part of the event.

Some of the phrases were along these lines : “In memory of Indian soldiers martyred by terrorists’ , ‘terrorist attack in india’ , ‘attack from across the border.’

I referred to UN and American interpretation of Kashmir being disputed territory and suggested that ‘in india’ Be changed to ‘in the disputed territory of kashmir’ And ‘local separatist carrying out attack on soldiers.’

The dean of the college has agreed to it and I also told the school board that as part of the student council it’s my responsibility to ensure that there is no politics in school events.

Due to the tension which has sprung up the university has clamped down and said that the vigil is cancelled. Now there will be none.

The Indian community is very ****** at this (and probably me) obviously but I think I did the right thing.

We are not in india. We are in the US. So the attack was carried out in disputed territory by a local youth. These are facts and the school has sided with me on this. I’m not sure what the Indian assistant dean thinks of this?

How would you have tackled this situation? How could I have handled it better?

Kudos to you for doing the right thing.

I am sure many other people would not have the courage to take the action that you did. They would be scared that their actions (even though, correct by the standards of capmpus activity guidelines) would be taken as "angry muslim abusing his power". So great job


Which school is it?

 

[Slog]

Kudos to you for doing the right thing.

I am sure many other people would not have the courage to take the action that you did. They would be scared that their actions (even though, correct by the standards of capmpus activity guidelines) would be taken as "angry muslim abusing his power". So great job


Which school is it?

It would be very easy to identify me if I name the university so I’ll keep that private

 

[Waseem]

Well done and you did the right thing.

Indians have been brainwashed with nationalism to an extent where they have absolutely no regard for humanity. They believe their soldiers can kill and injure thousands of Kashmiris or sponsor terrorism in other countries like Pakistan, Sri Lanka through Kalbhushans and Ajit Dovals but no one has right to respond.

Indians also protested in Sydney and Melbourne and their attitude was pathetic, many Pakistanis called for similar protests to expose Indian terrorism in Kashmir and Pakistan through Afghanistan but community leaders decided against it since we are living in a 3rd country who dont need to see all this stupid dramas everyday.

Indians MUST grow up, seriously disappointing and pathetic attitude.

 

[Slog]

Should there be a vigil organised for the three trees and one crow martyred by Indian air strikes?

 

[Majestic_Inzi]

When the innocent Kashmiris are degraded, blinded, raped and killed by the Indian army then do indians care?

This is the question many are questioning in India now, they want the land but dont care about the people.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

So, after reading the OP, the Indian Students who wanted to hold the vigil are willingly chosing to be ignorant of the whole situation.

Everyone around the world knows that Kashmir is a disputed territory, yet these students chose to ignore this fact.

That's why I despise the Indian media so much. They are injecting toxicity into young Indians' minds.

Basically the Indian media are handicapping people's ability to rationalize and have a balanced criteria. Even saat samundar past.