'Narendra Modi is a close friend of Israel': Benjamim Netanyahu

[R3verse Swing]

Let Indian Muslims be the judge of that,or Pakistanis will be providing enlightenment to them about how good it is there with PML ruling?

BJP is a party and we have many political parties here ,they might be here today 10 years down the line it would be some other which would lean towards center-left then suddenly will it be ok?
Better to have a system which corrects itself rather than a biased constitution.

I really do not understand, why do you keep mentioning Pakistan? Why are you comparing with Pakistan? Where does Pakistan claim to be secular? Pakistan is an Islamic Republic, declaring Islam as the official religion. In the same way Israel as a Jewish State, and the official religion is Judaism. (Rhetorical means no need to answer it).

Please stick to the topic of Israeli and Indian leaders.

 

[Tusker]

So according to you since the first day Islam came until now Jews have been persecuted by Muslims? lol

My response is simple and factual which I have already provided, Jews were given sanctuary by Muslims as they were persecuted by Christians for hundreds of years.

So you are going to refute the Sunnah and claim that did not happen ? Go on I will humor you ... it will be very funny ... and the "sanctuary" you talk about ... the technical term is Dhimmi. Go read it up and what that means.

A real sanctuary is what the Indian Kings offered those fleeing persecution (Jews and Parsis) wherein they were free to practice their religion and live no holds barred. This continues till today more than a 1000 yrs later without ever forcing their ideology on them.

I ask again, please answer. Was it Christians or Muslims who persecuted Jews the most? Clue: Christians believe the Jews put Jesus on the cross.

This is not a p!ssing contest. Even if the Christians did persecute them in the past this is no longer the case. The same is absolutely not true w.r.t Jews vs Muslims.

 

[Snak3eye5]

The reality is Modi has legitimised right-wing Hindu nationalism in India. This is clear as daylight. Muslims (and other minorities) in India are living as second class citizens, in the same way Muslim and Christian Palestinians are living in Israel. This explains the deep love and understanding between Modi and Netanyahu. The two are the most racist and fascist leaders in the world.

Whether it is 6 million or 160 million, Muslims are a minority in India compared to the Billion+ Hindus in India. To claim 160 Million Muslims live in India is the same as saying there are 6 Million Jews living in Germany.

Ask yourself this, who are the top 5 Muslims in Indian government and their respective roles? No? Then ask yourself who are the top 5 Muslims in the BCCI. Still struggling? Ask yourself who are the top 5 Muslims in power in India – full stop.

It's all a mirage.

Ok you make it sound like Indians have all muslims shut in a closed room and banned from applying to key positions of government. If muslims themselves don't want to get involved in key positions or want anything with political office is that the fault of the Indian hindu political leaders. Indians also just don’t elect anyone like Sharif or some Pakistan Pm who could never finish a term in any office. The fact of the matter is India doesn’t take religion into anything for anything when looking for key leaders. India has had great muslim leaders in the past like Zakir Husain, A.P.J Abdul Kalam, cricket captains like Azaharuddin, superstars in indian film industry like Shahrukh, Aamir and Salman khan. Also Indians have music maestros like A.r Rahman, and also artists from Pakistan who have thrived in India like Adnan Sami who later too Indian citizenship. We’ve had other stars like Aatif Aslam, Fawad Khan who had major fan following in India. Can Pakistan boast of anything of the same ? The gist im trying to make is religion in India plays no role in deciding one's talents and achievements.

 

[R3verse Swing]

So if you would talk about secularism or treatment of minorities, you expect not to be shown a mirror?

Its not contraindication, its diplomatic balancing. Just like we can get Russia to give us Nuke Subs or S400s and at the same time get Rafale from France and F16s or F18s from USA. Thats the strength of my nation.

Modi can get the highest civilian award in Saudi, get a reception by the UAE/AbuDhabi crown prince and his brothers at airport and also call Netanyahu his friend.

Modi or Yogi or anyone is bound by Indian laws and those laws give Muslims equal rights in India. No one can change it.

Can you please for once stop comparing with Pakistan? If Modi hugs the PM of Pakistan we can have a thread and you can pour your heart out then!

On the matter of topic, you have changed your argument from "Common strategy/ground" to "diplomatic balancing". These two statements are a world apart. You must feel proud that Modi stands a chance to receive recognition around the world for balancing the Muslim world. Personally I find it an ironic - 2 leaders representing right-wing nationalism balancing the Muslim world though anti-Muslim rhetoric.

 

[www787]

Who are you to decide the status of Indian muslims i their own country? Just because Indian muslims follow a secular law and live with people of various religion and mostly peacefully they are second class?

Indian muslims didnot need the Pakistanis in 1947 and they do not need you now.Go look after your own minorities who keep migrating to India.

India isn’t a secular country. You are not fooling no one.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Ok you make it sound like Indians have all muslims shut in a closed room and banned from applying to key positions of government. If muslims themselves don't want to get involved in key positions or want anything with political office is that the fault of the Indian hindu political leaders. Indians also just don’t elect anyone like Sharif or some Pakistan Pm who could never finish a term in any office. The fact of the matter is India doesn’t take religion into anything for anything when looking for key leaders. India has had great muslim leaders in the past like Zakir Husain, A.P.J Abdul Kalam, cricket captains like Azaharuddin, superstars in indian film industry like Shahrukh, Aamir and Salman khan. Also Indians have music maestros like A.r Rahman, and also artists from Pakistan who have thrived in India like Adnan Sami who later too Indian citizenship. We’ve had other stars like Aatif Aslam, Fawad Khan who had major fan following in India. Can Pakistan boast of anything of the same ? The gist im trying to make is religion in India plays no role in deciding one's talents and achievements.

In a way I agree, positions in the movie industry and Cricket team are positions of pseudo-power and most certainly have influence. I was asking to name 5 Muslims in position of actual power in the Indian government while Modi is PM. The top draw, the highest echelons, the emporium of Indian government?

Now you may be wondering why I am pushing for answers to this point, but the reality is that the Indian government is a representation of mindset and the nationalistic agenda. Don't worry, I am not singling out India, here, this applies to ALL governments, in particular Israeli government.

 

[JaDed]

I really do not understand, why do you keep mentioning Pakistan? Why are you comparing with Pakistan? Where does Pakistan claim to be secular? Pakistan is an Islamic Republic, declaring Islam as the official religion. In the same way Israel as a Jewish State, and the official religion is Judaism. (Rhetorical means no need to answer it).

Please stick to the topic of Israeli and Indian leaders.

Ok so the leader of Israel is vising India probably to increase trade and ask why did India vote against Israel in UN recently and what are you saying exactly which is specific to topic?

 

[JaDed]

In a way I agree, positions in the movie industry and Cricket team are positions of pseudo-power and most certainly have influence. I was asking to name 5 Muslims in position of actual power in the Indian government while Modi is PM. The top draw, the highest echelons, the emporium of Indian government?

Now you may be wondering why I am pushing for answers to this point, but the reality is that the Indian government is a representation of mindset and the nationalistic agenda. Don't worry, I am not singling out India, here, this applies to ALL governments, in particular Israeli government.

Please stick to the topic,its about Israel's leader visiting India not about Muslims in position in the ruling government.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Please stick to the topic,its about Israel's leader visiting India not about Muslims in position in the ruling government.

My point is on topic since the 2 leaders share their despise for Muslims, this is evident by the lack of Muslims in key positions/law makers in their respective governments.

You may have missed the part where I mentioned the 2 leaders are unified on the basis of what they have in common - their hatred towards Muslims and religious nationalism.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So you are going to refute the Sunnah and claim that did not happen ? Go on I will humor you ... it will be very funny ... and the "sanctuary" you talk about ... the technical term is Dhimmi. Go read it up and what that means.

A real sanctuary is what the Indian Kings offered those fleeing persecution (Jews and Parsis) wherein they were free to practice their religion and live no holds barred. This continues till today more than a 1000 yrs later without ever forcing their ideology on them.



This is not a p!ssing contest. Even if the Christians did persecute them in the past this is no longer the case. The same is absolutely not true w.r.t Jews vs Muslims.

lol. You are struggling with basic history but want to discuss theology?

We can get to how the Jews are seen in Islam once we have come to an understanding regarding your version of history.

Was it Muslims or Christians who have persecuted Jews more in history? Just answer the question and we can move on. It has nothing to do with a contest but once you answer I will explain.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India isn’t a secular country. You are not fooling no one.

India is a secular country and your whining aint changing it.

 

[JaDed]

My point is on topic since the 2 leaders share their despise for Muslims, this is evident by the lack of Muslims in key positions/law makers in their respective governments.

You may have missed the part where I mentioned the 2 leaders are unified on the basis of what they have in common - their hatred towards Muslims and religious nationalism.

Not really,Israel has been a better ally to us compared to some of the other nations this was long due,the only reason it wasn't being done on national level probably because both the parties didn't want to offend anyone.

This is one good thing about Canadians,Americans,Australians,Brits they might be whatever position but they don't really care and almost always openly support Israel,hopefully India learns from them.

 

[KingKhanWC]

India is a secular country and your whining aint changing it.

It claims to be but isn't. A secular country would not outlaw a meat based on religious belief, just one example.

Israel also claims to be a secular nation but justifies stealing land based on a religious book.

It's laughable both nations who are run by religious extremists bring up the secular card.

 

[Tusker]

lol. You are struggling with basic history but want to discuss theology?

We can get to how the Jews are seen in Islam once we have come to an understanding regarding your version of history.

Something tells me you will expertly side step that ... one way or the other. Sunnah is based on actually events. Therefore it is a valid historical record. Its not just some theological dogma.

Was it Muslims or Christians who have persecuted Jews more in history? Just answer the question and we can move on. It has nothing to do with a contest but once you answer I will explain.

Don't have the time to argue all day long but just in the best interest of time lets suppose that Christians persecuted the Jews more than Muslims ... what does that mean ? Does it mean that *TODAY* the same is true ? Does it mean Muslims never persecuted Jews and live peacefully even to this day .... or what is it? Whats your version of history ?

 

[www787]

India is a secular country and your whining aint changing it.

Like I said, you aren’t fooling anyone.

Secularism mean no discrimination against anyone in the name of religion.

So, please refrain from spreading false information unless you do not understand what secularism mean.

 

[Tusker]

It claims to be but isn't. A secular country would not outlaw a meat based on religious belief, just one example.

Israel also claims to be a secular nation but justifies stealing land based on a religious book.

It's laughable both nations who are run by religious extremists bring up the secular card.

France wont allow Muslims to wear the burqa ergo France is not a secular nation .... lol

 

[JaDed]

Looks like India is fooling everyone with secular tag except its own citizens but UK with all its love for freedom democracy civil rights,bombing and colonizing countries doesn't fool anyone .

All hail the Queen.

 

[R3verse Swing]

The similarities do not end with their nationalistic views and despite of Muslims. Modi was banned from entering the USA and UK before he became Prime Minister. Modi is the only person ever denied a U.S. visa based on a law on religious freedom. Irony alert!

Netanyahu on the other hand, snubbed the US government, then circumvented US protocol by addressing Congress in the US via AIPAC despite the US President not inviting him. UN Security Council responded by voting against Israeli settlements - a first for USA who had been vetoing the resolution.

The 2 leaders are like 2 peas in a pod.

 

[www787]

France wont allow Muslims to wear the burqa ergo France is not a secular nation .... lol

Bad example. France want to end religious based law whereas India made the law based on religion in favor of majority against minority which has caused the loss of innocent life.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Not really,Israel has been a better ally to us compared to some of the other nations this was long due,the only reason it wasn't being done on national level probably because both the parties didn't want to offend anyone.

This is one good thing about Canadians,Americans,Australians,Brits they might be whatever position but they don't really care and almost always openly support Israel,hopefully India learns from them.

Well of course Israel has been a better ally to India, the 2 nations share much in common.

 

[Tusker]

Bad example. France want to end religious based law whereas India made the law based on religion in favor of majority against minority which has caused the loss of innocent life.

So dressing as you like does not come under freewill anymore ? We learn new things everyday ... Did France outlaw Nuns from similar outfits , did they Ban Sikhs and Jews from similar religion driven dressing style ?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Something tells me you will expertly side step that ... one way or the other. Sunnah is based on actually events. Therefore it is a valid historical record. Its not just some theological dogma.




Don't have the time to argue all day long but just in the best interest of time lets suppose that Christians persecuted the Jews more than Muslims ... what does that mean ? Does it mean that *TODAY* the same is true ? Does it mean Muslims never persecuted Jews and live peacefully even to this day .... or what is it? Whats your version of history ?

Not suppose it's a historical fact the Christians persecuted the Jews who then seeked refuge in Muslim lands. This simple fact of history shows your absurd original statement that Muslims persecuted Jews for hundreds of years, you are either ignorant or just lying. You made it worse by posting a link pro existence of Israel. lol

As for religion, you will struggle if you are struggling with history.

Jews are people of the book, go find out what this means and then you will realise you cannot make any strong argument to say Islam suggests Jews should be discriminated against or are lesser people. Try to stay away from Islamaphobic sites where your arguments seem to be coming from.

If you dont have time, continue tomorrow, no problemo amigo.

 

[KingKhanWC]

France wont allow Muslims to wear the burqa ergo France is not a secular nation .... lol

Exactly this is secular, where religous beliefs are not conformed to. India is the opposite.

Youre just digging a hole now.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It claims to be but isn't. A secular country would not outlaw a meat based on religious belief, just one example.

Israel also claims to be a secular nation but justifies stealing land based on a religious book.

It's laughable both nations who are run by religious extremists bring up the secular card.

We also ban cartoons of a religious figure as it hurts the religious belief of a community.

Unlike some other nations, we are a big nation with a big diverse population and hence create our own system rather than copy a system of secularism from somewhere else.

What Israel claims to be is not my concern.

Its laughable when someone who supports Taliban and called Hafeez Saeed a asset of Pakistan talks about extremism.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Exactly this is secular, where religous beliefs are not conformed to. India is the opposite.

Youre just digging a hole now.

So Charlie Hebdo and Danish cartoons were fine?

 

[www787]

So dressing as you like does not come under freewill anymore ? We learn new things everyday ... Did France outlaw Nuns from similar outfits , did they Ban Sikhs and Jews from similar religion driven dressing style ?

Again bad example. Dress as you like when you are not on government own buildings. Secularism, whereas India Inforced the law that is against secularism.

 

[Tusker]

Not suppose it's a historical fact the Christians persecuted the Jews who then seeked refuge in Muslim lands. This simple fact of history shows your absurd original statement that Muslims persecuted Jews for hundreds of years, you are either ignorant or just lying. You made it worse by posting a link pro existence of Israel. lol

News flash ... even before the 1st Muslim was even born Jews were ALREADY there (and thriving) in what you NOW call Muslim lands . Fast forward a few centuries and they were Gone. Unless you have a Alien abduction theory you are done here and should quietly walk away from this.

As for religion, you will struggle if you are struggling with history.

Jews are people of the book, go find out what this means and then you will realise you cannot make any strong argument to say Islam suggests Jews should be discriminated against or are lesser people. Try to stay away from Islamaphobic sites where your arguments seem to be coming from.

If you dont have time, continue tomorrow, no problemo amigo.

try me ... and I will guarantee you that ad-hominem will be your go-to tactic to counter all the uncomfortable facts that will come up in this discussion.

People of book does not mean equal to Muslims. Heck you guys dont even accept Shias as Muslims and here you are arguing about Jews ... lol

 

[cricketjoshila]

The similarities do not end with their nationalistic views and despite of Muslims. Modi was banned from entering the USA and UK before he became Prime Minister. Modi is the only person ever denied a U.S. visa based on a law on religious freedom. Irony alert!

Netanyahu on the other hand, snubbed the US government, then circumvented US protocol by addressing Congress in the US via AIPAC despite the US President not inviting him. UN Security Council responded by voting against Israeli settlements - a first for USA who had been vetoing the resolution.

The 2 leaders are like 2 peas in a pod.

Modi was invited to US. Addressed the US congress live and to thunderous applause. Addressed 20k people at Madison Square Garden. Addressed 70k at Wembley and had lunch at the buckingham palace.

Was awarded the highest civilian award by Saudi, was received by the crown prince of Abu dhabi at the airport with full state honours and addressed 1000s of Indians at the Dubai Stadium.

No matter how much Pakistanis want, no one buys your narrative on Modi or India.

 

[JaDed]

Well of course Israel has been a better ally to India, the 2 nations share much in common.

Not as much as Israel and Pakistan though,atleast in terms of foundation.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/429773/israel-and-pakistan/

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/pakistans-military-cooperation-with-israel/

https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/11792/why-pakistan-needs-israel/

 

[KingKhanWC]

We also ban cartoons of a religious figure as it hurts the religious belief of a community.

Unlike some other nations, we are a big nation with a big diverse population and hence create our own system rather than copy a system of secularism from somewhere else.

What Israel claims to be is not my concern.

Its laughable when someone who supports Taliban and called Hafeez Saeed a asset of Pakistan talks about extremism.

Stick to the topic, Hafeez Saeed is walking around the streets of Paksitan. Do what America did to OBL or be quiet.

Sure be a big nation but to claim you are secular is funny.

 

[Tusker]

Again bad example. Dress as you like when you are not on government own buildings. Secularism, whereas India Inforced the law that is against secularism.

Exactly this is secular, where religous beliefs are not conformed to. India is the opposite.

Youre just digging a hole now.

Not when it only applies to Muslims ... you have a point if it was applied to all religions.

In anycase India has Muslim only laws too and it acknowledges Sharia.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Stick to the topic, Hafeez Saeed is walking around the streets of Paksitan. Do what America did to OBL or be quiet.

Sure be a big nation but to claim you are secular is funny.

Why will we do what you want us to?

Yes we are secular and we dont blindly copy systems of other nations.

 

[KingKhanWC]

News flash ... even before the 1st Muslim was even born Jews were ALREADY there (and thriving) in what you NOW call Muslim lands . Fast forward a few centuries and they were Gone. Unless you have a Alien abduction theory you are done here and should quietly walk away from this.

lol. How do this prove centuries of persecution. Show me dates, incidents, locations, numbers(roughly) and context. Centuries could be 2 to 14 so you should have no trouble proving this.

try me ... and I will guarantee you that ad-hominem will be your go-to tactic to counter all the uncomfortable facts that will come up in this discussion.

People of book does not mean equal to Muslims. Heck you guys dont even accept Shias as Muslims and here you are arguing about Jews ... lol

Shias go to Mecca, if they werent considered Muslims they wouldn't be allowed . lol

What does people of the book mean?

 

[R3verse Swing]

Modi was invited to US. Addressed the US congress live and to thunderous applause. Addressed 20k people at Madison Square Garden. Addressed 70k at Wembley and had lunch at the buckingham palace.

Was awarded the highest civilian award by Saudi, was received by the crown prince of Abu dhabi at the airport with full state honours and addressed 1000s of Indians at the Dubai Stadium.

No matter how much Pakistanis want, no one buys your narrative on Modi or India.

I am not selling but please tell me, what on earth are you blabbering on about? I said Modi was banned before coming to the USA and UK before he was PM. Do you deny this?

Links:

Banned from the UK

Banned from the USA

Modi was internationally recognised as a religious terrorist and banned rightly from entering the USA & UK. However those who paid to see him after the bans were lifted should be considered terrorist sympathisers.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why will we do what you want us to?

Yes we are secular and we dont blindly copy systems of other nations.

Action or silence is better than tears.

You keep believing that lol.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not when it only applies to Muslims ... you have a point if it was applied to all religions.

In anycase India has Muslim only laws too and it acknowledges Sharia.

He has no answers when you tell him that we banned charlie hebdo cartoons as well.

Why should we follow the laws as they are in Europe? Our population is almost 2 times of Europe. Much more diverse and we will have our own system.

These people will want ban on Charlie Hebdo cartoons as it offends them and then secularism and freedom doesnt matter, but will talk about it if cow slaughter is banned.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Action or silence is better than tears.

You keep believing that lol.

Action is being taken. The concerned people in Pakistan are already concerned.

Indias systems isnt in need of your certification.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So Charlie Hebdo and Danish cartoons were fine?

According to the French secular nation they were.

 

[Tusker]

lol. How do this prove centuries of persecution. Show me dates, incidents, locations, numbers(roughly) and context. Centuries could be 2 to 14 so you should have no trouble proving this.

ehhh? Like l said unless you have a Alien abduction theory (Or perhaps the Christians were pulling the strings) the only people that kicked them out or killed them or forced them to convert would be Muslims because the Muslim lands - especially Saudi Arabia - hasnt been ruled by any other religious community since about 632AD. It does not matter whether it took 1 century or 14.

Shias go to Mecca, if they werent considered Muslims they wouldn't be allowed . lol

What does people of the book mean?

Is that why Shias are in constant Conflict with Sunnis practically every where ? Shall we talk about riots in Pakistan between the 2 communities ? And then you have the nerve to claim Jews as "People of Book" lol

 

[cricketjoshila]

I am not selling but please tell me, what on earth are you blabbering on about? I said Modi was banned before coming to the USA and UK before he was PM. Do you deny this?

Links:

Banned from the UK

Banned from the USA

Modi was internationally recognised as a religious terrorist and banned rightly from entering the USA & UK. However those who paid to see him after the bans were lifted should be considered terrorist sympathisers.

Modi didnot even apply to go to UK.LoL. How to stop someone from coming if he isnt even planning to come

The article in UK talks about a ban being lifted in 2012, 2 years before Modi became PM.

Modi was a accused in 2005 when his US visa was rejected and has been exonerated since, so his visa issues are over.

Modi was welcomed with open arms in US. Addressed the US congress to thundetoys applause and the then US President wrote a article in The Time Magazine praising him.

Modi is a international leader and has met heads of state of most important countries and has received widespread praise from many of them. Your narrative of Modi doesnot wash with anyone. I know ot hurts but no one cares about the Pakistani narrative on Modi.

 

[cricketjoshila]

According to the French secular nation they were.

You were adamant here on PP that they were offensive.

 

[KingKhanWC]

ehhh? Like l said unless you have a Alien abduction theory (Or perhaps the Christians were pulling the strings) the only people that kicked them out or killed them or forced them to convert would be Muslims because the Muslim lands - especially Saudi Arabia - hasnt been ruled by any other religious community since about 632AD. It does not matter whether it took 1 century or 14.

Prove this. Talk without evidence is lame.

When, where, how? Give numbers and context too. If you make a claim back it up.

Saudia Arabia has only been around since 1930. lol.

Is that why Shias are in constant Conflict with Sunnis practically every where ? Shall we talk about riots in Pakistan between the 2 communities ? And then you have the nerve to claim Jews as "People of Book" lol

So according to you because there has been conflicts between shias and sunnis , shias are not considered Muslims. lol. I gave you a simple fact which puts to bed this idiotic idea. NO Non-Muslim can enter Mecca, Shias enter on a daily basis. Do you see worldwide protests from Sunnis saying dont allow them in.

Please debate with some sense.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You were adamant here on PP that they were offensive.

Yes there to me and many Muslims but the French are secular, they have no sensitivities when its comes to religion. Just because I think they are offensive doesn't mean France isn't secular.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I do not understand the problem Pakistanis have if India and Israel have good relations. You decide your own relations with Israel we will decide our own.

Whats the issue?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes there to me and many Muslims but the French are secular, they have no sensitivities when its comes to religion. Just because I think they are offensive doesn't mean France isn't secular.

So why were Charlie Hebdo offices attacked and people killed?

 

[KingKhanWC]

So why were Charlie Hebdo offices attacked and people killed?

Some criminals targetted them because they were offended. This has no bearing on France's secular position.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Not sure if Muslims have learned to live together with them.

As an Indian muslim, i strongly agree with [MENTION=141093]big_gamer007[/MENTION]. Majority of Indian muslims are living in harmony with rest of the populations. Now, if you're an outsider your views are based on biased media, so i am not even gonna try convincing you. Just stop speaking on behalf of us Indian muslims.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I do not understand the problem Pakistanis have if India and Israel have good relations. You decide your own relations with Israel we will decide our own.

Whats the issue?

They are both enemies to Pakistan, not a problem. Neither Israel or India can do much to Pakistan apart from sending terrorists from Afghanistan.

 

[KingKhanWC]

As an Indian muslim, i strongly agree with [MENTION=141093]big_gamer007[/MENTION]. Majority of Indian muslims are living in harmony with rest of the populations. Now, if you're an outsider your views are based on biased media, so i am not even gonna try convincing you. Just stop speaking on behalf of us Indian muslims.

What are your thought regarding the comments of government officials connected to Muslims, the violence, discrimination and deaths which have resulted. As an Indian Muslim you think there is no issue here?

 

[chacha kashmiri]

All whose missing is Cleopatra

Ancient pre-Assyric and pre Acadic civilisations taking us back to the stone ages

Whats new

 

[www787]

Not when it only applies to Muslims ... you have a point if it was applied to all religions.

In anycase India has Muslim only laws too and it acknowledges Sharia.

That’s what I’m trying to say, it does not make India a secular state.
I just don’t understand why few Indian get offended by it, it isn’t a secular state and Indian ( not every Indian) should own it. Nothing wrong if it isn’t a secular state but try to pretend to be one is quite foolish.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Allow me to make myself clear.

• Netanyahu represents right-wing Jewish ideology – Zionism
• Modi represents right-wing Hindu ideology – Hindutva.
• Modern day Israel was dominated/ruled by Muslims.
• Modern day India was dominated/ruled by Muslims.
• Netanyahu has legitimised Zionism.
• Modi has legitimised Hindutva.
• Muslims are second class citizens in Israel.
• Muslims are second class citizens in India.
• Jews have freed themselves of Islamic rule in Israel (Monotheism)
• Hindus have freed themselves of Islamic rule in India (Mughal)
• Zionists are in control of Israel after 2000 years.
• Hindutvas are in control of India after 2000 years.

Let’s not kid ourselves, Islam is the common enemy shared between Israel and India. This entire facade that India/Israel ties are due to business and trade is exactly that, a facade, a smoke screen.

Best!

So lemme ask you onething?

Do you condem the Mughal rule in India under which hundreds and thousands of Hindus were slaughtered and many were converted. If you think mughal rule was acceptable then you have no right to question Israel ruling Jersualem. They only paying back what they had to face under muslim rule.

Popular belief on PP. Many posters actually feel proud of Mughals ruling India for many centuries ignoring the bloodshed and force conversions. But now Israel is doing the same and all of sudden they cry HUMANITY. Bunch of HYPOCRITES.

As an Indian i dont give a crap about Palestine. Its not India's concern. We should continue military and economic collaboration with Israel. India have nothing to gain if we side with Palestine.

 

[Tusker]

Prove this. Talk without evidence is lame.

When, where, how? Give numbers and context too. If you make a claim back it up.

Saudia Arabia has only been around since 1930. lol.

Trying to get out of this pickle using Technicalities ? Saudi Arabia as in the land that is referred to in the Sunnah that I posted earlier. You know that very well too. Unless you are going to claim that there were no jews in the area during Islams early days then you have no case here. Its called common sense.

So according to you because there has been conflicts between shias and sunnis , shias are not considered Muslims. lol. I gave you a simple fact which puts to bed this idiotic idea. NO Non-Muslim can enter Mecca, Shias enter on a daily basis. Do you see worldwide protests from Sunnis saying dont allow them in.

Please debate with some sense.

The main reason for the Shia-Sunni conflict is that the hardcore Muslims ( i.e Wahabbis ) dont consider Shias to be true Muslims. Please don't even try to pretend otherwise.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Modi didnot even apply to go to UK.LoL. How to stop someone from coming if he isnt even planning to come

The article in UK talks about a ban being lifted in 2012, 2 years before Modi became PM.

Modi was a accused in 2005 when his US visa was rejected and has been exonerated since, so his visa issues are over.

Modi was welcomed with open arms in US. Addressed the US congress to thundetoys applause and the then US President wrote a article in The Time Magazine praising him.

Modi is a international leader and has met heads of state of most important countries and has received widespread praise from many of them. Your narrative of Modi doesnot wash with anyone. I know ot hurts but no one cares about the Pakistani narrative on Modi.

Oh my god. Of course the bans were lifted! Once he was elected PM! Doesn't change the fact he was banned for religious terrorism. Read the articles properly. He didn't need to apply a VISA to be banned, what difference does this make? The USA/UK banned him outright.

"Since 2002, Mr Modi has been shunned by several countries including the United States, which denied him an entry visa in 2005 and Britain which cut all official contact with his government."

Yes once he became PM the ban was lifted, this doesn't change anything I said, plus the West has a knack of anointing Terrorists to Sainthoods. Alex McGuiness and Modi as examples, though in Modi's case the USA and UK want to increase trade with India. India could've elected Bert and Ernie and the USA/UK would've sent a delegation to the Indian embassy! Get it?

And please, save this Modi was welcomed with open arm bravado, who cares? What does this prove? That Hindu nationalists living in the USA/UK had an opportunity to meet their once deprived and banned leader?

On top of this, Modi was greeted by protests. Click here.

Several hundred demonstrators representing Gujarati, Sikh, Tamil, Kashmiri, Nepali and women’s groups chanted ”Modi go home” and “David Cameron shame shame” as the Indian prime minister was welcomed at about lunchtime on Thursday.

Surprise surprise, Nethanyahu was greeted with the same disgust when he visited the UK.

 

[R3verse Swing]

So lemme ask you onething?

Do you condem the Mughal rule in India under which hundreds and thousands of Hindus were slaughtered and many were converted. If you think mughal rule was acceptable then you have no right to question Israel ruling Jersualem. They only paying back what they had to face under muslim rule.

Popular belief on PP. Many posters actually feel proud of Mughals ruling India for many centuries ignoring the bloodshed and force conversions. But now Israel is doing the same and all of sudden they cry HUMANITY. Bunch of HYPOCRITES.

As an Indian i dont give a crap about Palestine. Its not India's concern. We should continue military and economic collaboration with Israel. India have nothing to gain if we side with Palestine.

I was merely pointing out the similarities between the 2 leaders. Islam is the common enemy between the 2 leaders, and any condemnation/appreciation of the past doesn't change this fact.

 

[Tusker]

That’s what I’m trying to say, it does not make India a secular state.
I just don’t understand why few Indian get offended by it, it isn’t a secular state and Indian ( not every Indian) should own it. Nothing wrong if it isn’t a secular state but try to pretend to be one is quite foolish.

lol now you are not happy because India is bending over backwards to appease its biggest minority community ?

As an indian I don't give a rats behind about this. Whatever happens to Muslims is directly a result of their own rigid way of life. No other minorities in India have soo many conflicts with Hindus as do Muslims. Simple common sense suggests the problem lies with Muslims.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Trying to get out of this pickle using Technicalities ? Saudi Arabia as in the land that is referred to in the Sunnah that I posted earlier. You know that very well too. Unless you are going to claim that there were no jews in the area during Islams early days then you have no case here. Its called common sense.

Technicalities lol. It's you who is in a pickle who are struggling to prove your claim.

There is no land named Saudi Arabia in the Sunnah lol. Saudi is the name of a family which wasn't around then. Sure there were Jews but just because there aren't none now , doesnt mean Muslims have been persecuting Jews since day 1.

It took Muslims 13 years before even defending themselves. So I dont know where this day 1 came from? If you can prove a single incident on day 1, I will leave this forum forever. Maybe thats too big of challenge, so make it the first month. Fair?

The main reason for the Shia-Sunni conflict is that the hardcore Muslims ( i.e Wahabbis ) dont consider Shias to be true Muslims. Please don't even try to pretend otherwise.

It is Wahabbis who control Mecca and Medina, they let Shias in. There is a big thread on this topic, search , read and learn.

 

[www787]

So lemme ask you onething?

Do you condem the Mughal rule in India under which hundreds and thousands of Hindus were slaughtered and many were converted. If you think mughal rule was acceptable then you have no right to question Israel ruling Jersualem. They only paying back what they had to face under muslim rule.

Popular belief on PP. Many posters actually feel proud of Mughals ruling India for many centuries ignoring the bloodshed and force conversions. But now Israel is doing the same and all of sudden they cry HUMANITY. Bunch of HYPOCRITES.

As an Indian i dont give a crap about Palestine. Its not India's concern. We should continue military and economic collaboration with Israel. India have nothing to gain if we side with Palestine.

Bad example and weak defense to defend indefensible. Just because it had happened in past it shouldn’t give justification and continuam of killing of thousand and made them refugees.

Just because what white people did to color people should justify if color people were to do same in return.

You’re trying too hard.

 

[www787]

lol now you are not happy because India is bending over backwards to appease its biggest minority community ?

As an indian I don't give a rats behind about this. Whatever happens to Muslims is directly a result of their own rigid way of life. No other minorities in India have soo many conflicts with Hindus as do Muslims. Simple common sense suggests the problem lies with Muslims.

It’s an Indian problem, not mine, I’m just correcting you and your fellow nationalist that India isn’t a “secular” country by definition. No matter how you look at it and you have given bad example to suggest it is.

And your statement shows racism towards minority, which isn’t surprising because you come off of as nationalist.

 

[Tusker]

Technicalities lol. It's you who is in a pickle who are struggling to prove your claim.

There is no land named Saudi Arabia in the Sunnah lol. Saudi is the name of a family which wasn't around then. Sure there were Jews but just because there aren't none now , doesnt mean Muslims have been persecuting Jews since day 1.

It took Muslims 13 years before even defending themselves. So I dont know where this day 1 came from? If you can prove a single incident on day 1, I will leave this forum forever. Maybe thats too big of challenge, so make it the first month. Fair?

As I said more technicalities to wiggle out of the pickle.

Time to answer a few questions: Do you agree that there was significant population of Jews in the area -now known as Saudi Arabia - before Islam ? If yes then what happened to them over the years according to your "alternative facts" theory?

It is Wahabbis who control Mecca and Medina, they let Shias in. There is a big thread on this topic, search , read and learn.

Wahabbis also dont accept Shia's as Muslims hence the Shia-Muslim nonsense.. Unless you live in a world where there is no such conflict. Whether or not they are allowed in Mecca is irrelevant to this discussion and is not a proof of them being accepted as "People of book".

 

[R3verse Swing]

The title of the thread is "Modi is a close friend of Israel"

The point of discussion is why are they close friends? I think this point is established clearly.

Now get your head around this, Manmohan Singh did not visit Israel, nor did Israel PM visit Manmohan Singh. Manmohan Singh barely mentioned Israel. Let this sink in for a few moments. Are we to believe India and Israeli were terrific when a Sikh was the PM of India?

BJP was more open to having relations with Israel in 1998 and 2004 but because BJP was in a coalition, BJP leader couldn't have his way. Of course, now Modi is PM, he broke the long standing taboo of an Indian PM visiting an Israeli PM; he not only visits Israel, but invites Nethanyahu.

It adds new meaning to Nethanyahu and Modi's friendship. Calling a spade a spade, both Nethanyahu and Modi are special friends because the two despise Islam.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Bad example and weak defense to defend indefensible. Just because it had happened in past it shouldn’t give justification and continuam of killing of thousand and made them refugees.

Just because what white people did to color people should justify if color people were to do same in return.

You’re trying too hard.

So you ignored the basic question i asked. Was it not oppression under mughal rule? Its simple yes or no question

 

[www787]

So you ignored the basic question i asked. Was it not oppression under mughal rule? Its simple yes or no question

It’s self answerable question but for you to use that to justify any injustice is pure desperation.

 

[Tusker]

It’s an Indian problem, not mine, I’m just correcting you and your fellow nationalist that India isn’t a “secular” country by definition. No matter how you look at it and you have given bad example to suggest it is.

And your statement shows racism towards minority, which isn’t surprising because you come off of as nationalist.

It isnt a successful secular state because it is an alien concept for Muslims worldwide. Nothing to do with the majority. They have more than done their part to make it a secular state including bending backwards and enacting ridiculous laws like Article 371 and accepting Sharia and so on and so forth.

 

[www787]

It isnt a successful secular state because it is an alien concept for Muslims worldwide. Nothing to do with the majority. They have more than done their part to make it a secular state including bending backwards and enacting ridiculous laws like Article 371 and accepting Sharia and so on and so forth.

It isn’t a secular state because the state had also passed laws that protect and punish if you go against Hindu beliefs. Again, nothing wrong with that if majority of Indian decide to do that, democracy not secularism, but stop blaming only one particular group of people for it not being a secular state, because blaming one group and ignoring other turns this into racism.

 

[CanadianG00se]

It’s self answerable question but for you to use that to justify any injustice is pure desperation.

im not jusifying anything. Stop twisting my words. Im only stating what I've observed. Do you deny that Hindus were opressed? Do you condem the atrocities comitted by Mughals?

Fact is not a single Muslim have ever condemed the act of Mughals. Heck many even feel proud of them ruling Hindu land. Now, muslims in Palestine are opressed by non muslims, humanity is questioned. Now give a valid reason why an average Indian(Hindu or muslim or anyone) should care about Palestine?
Why should an Indian govt stop looking after her interest just because some muslims are being opressed.

I can bet my bottom dollar if roles were reversed, Israel being opressed by muslims then no muslim would ever question the rule. That is sad reality. Muslim folks only care about fellow muslims. #Hypocrites

 

[www787]

im not jusifying anything. Stop twisting my words. Im only stating what I've observed. Do you deny that Hindus were opressed? Do you condem the atrocities comitted by Mughals?

Fact is not a single Muslim have ever condemed the act of Mughals. Heck many even feel proud of them ruling Hindu land. Now, muslims in Palestine are opressed by non muslims, humanity is questioned. Now give a valid reason why an average Indian(Hindu or muslim or anyone) should care about Palestine?
Why should an Indian govt stop looking after her interest just because some muslims are being opressed.

I can bet my bottom dollar if roles were reversed, Israel being opressed by muslims then no muslim would ever question the rule. That is sad reality. Muslim folks only care about fellow muslims. #Hypocrites

You do not speak for every Muslim.

You are justifying by bringing in what had happened 100s of years ago, no matter how much you deny it. If you weren’t you wouldn’t be using to defend the atrocity by any group of people.

And I would suggest you do not gamble on that because you’ll lose lot of money since you do not speak for every Muslim.

 

[KingKhanWC]

As I said more technicalities to wiggle out of the pickle.

Time to answer a few questions: Do you agree that there was significant population of Jews in the area -now known as Saudi Arabia - before Islam ? If yes then what happened to them over the years according to your "alternative facts" theory?

Ironic you posted a link which partially address your own question but you dont realise this. Jews were living in Arabia until the British installed a puppet regime of the Al-Saud family. Your own link said most moved (from Muslim lands) after Israel came into existence. I assume you take back your claim of hundreds of years of persecution by Muslims. No problem.

Wahabbis also dont accept Shia's as Muslims hence the Shia-Muslim nonsense.. Unless you live in a world where there is no such conflict. Whether or not they are allowed in Mecca is irrelevant to this discussion and is not a proof of them being accepted as "People of book".

Shias are not people of the book. It's Jews and Christians. If a person(s) is allowed to enter Mecca he/she is considered a Muslim. This is the strongest proof. You harping on about conflict doesn't change this FACT.

 

[www787]

im not jusifying anything. Stop twisting my words. Im only stating what I've observed. Do you deny that Hindus were opressed? Do you condem the atrocities comitted by Mughals?

Fact is not a single Muslim have ever condemed the act of Mughals. Heck many even feel proud of them ruling Hindu land. Now, muslims in Palestine are opressed by non muslims, humanity is questioned. Now give a valid reason why an average Indian(Hindu or muslim or anyone) should care about Palestine?
Why should an Indian govt stop looking after her interest just because some muslims are being opressed.

I can bet my bottom dollar if roles were reversed, Israel being opressed by muslims then no muslim would ever question the rule. That is sad reality. Muslim folks only care about fellow muslims. #Hypocrites

No one is saying that India shouldn’t look after for self interest but don’t need to get bent out of shape and try to justify killing of thousands of particular group of people in last decade when you are called out, and when you try to defend it with what had happened thousands of years ago then it just pure desperation.

 

[Tusker]

It isn’t a secular state because the state had also passed laws that protect and punish if you go against Hindu beliefs. Again, nothing wrong with that if majority of Indian decide to do that, democracy not secularism, but stop blaming only one particular group of people for it not being a secular state, because blaming one group and ignoring other turns this into racism.

just merely pointing out hard ugly facts. If Hindus were such an intolerant bunch they would have long since made India to a Hindu theocratic state just like how Pakistan did nor would the Muslim population had grown 10 fold since 1947. Also keep in mind that none of the other minorities have so many issues as Muslims do. The violence that you see is usually in response to blatant provocations. Such as burning aline dozens of Hindu pilgrims in a train for flimsy reasons. Naturally there will be a response.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So you ignored the basic question i asked. Was it not oppression under mughal rule? Its simple yes or no question

You ignored mine.

Please answer as we dont have many Indian Muslims on this forum.


What are your thought regarding the comments of government officials connected to Muslims, the violence, discrimination and deaths which have resulted. As an Indian Muslim do you think there is no issue here?

 

[www787]

just merely pointing out hard ugly facts. If Hindus were such an intolerant bunch they would have long since made India to a Hindu theocratic state just like how Pakistan did nor would the Muslim population had grown 10 fold since 1947. Also keep in mind that none of the other minorities have so many issues as Muslims do. The violence that you see is usually in response to blatant provocations. Such as burning aline dozens of Hindu pilgrims in a train for flimsy reasons. Naturally there will be a response.

Ugly fact Muslim man were slaughter by Hindu radicles for transporting cows.
Ugly fact, every defense of you reek of racism.

 

[PakLFC]

Prior to Modi being India's PM there was talk of a joint India-Israel attack on Pakistan I have no issue with India-Israel friendship, we know that India needs other countries to fight it's battles. Every country does what is right for it. Of course, Kashmir, Palestine, Middle East and most of all Pakistan will be topics of discussion when two terrorist leaders meet.

 

[Tusker]

Ironic you posted a link which partially address your own question but you dont realise this. Jews were living in Arabia until the British installed a puppet regime of the Al-Saud family. Your own link said most moved (from Muslim lands) after Israel came into existence. I assume you take back your claim of hundreds of years of persecution by Muslims. No problem.

yeah Living as 2nd Class citizens. How did they go from being a majority to being a tiny minority with no real rights? This is why the rest moved to Israel which completed the final chapter of Jews in Arabia..

I had also asked you to read up on Dhimmi. I see you conveniently ignored that. But it is laughable that you are trying to paint a hunky-dory picture of peaceful co-existence between Muslims and Jews in Arabia.

Shias are not people of the book. It's Jews and Christians. If a person(s) is allowed to enter Mecca he/she is considered a Muslim. This is the strongest proof. You harping on about conflict doesn't change this FACT.

Iam aware of what "People of book" means. You perhaps did not understand what I meant in my earlier post when I said that you guys dont even co-exist peacefully with Shias. This is was in response to your claim that Muslims automatically live peacefully with "people of the book". This is far from being true.

Here are some few tidbits on the Shia-Sunni conflict that goes back centuries.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/saudi-arabia-iran-spar-hajj-pilgrimage-160906143744475.html
https://youtu.be/489lDcsxWqk?t=4m19s
http://www.alterinter.org/spip.php?article4502


Will continue tomorrow ...

 

[Tusker]

Ugly fact Muslim man were slaughter by Hindu radicles for transporting cows.

that were headed were ?

Ugly fact, every defense of you reek of racism.

maybe because you cannot refute them ? Like the reason for burning alive dozens of Hindu pilgrims ?

 

[Waseem]

Trump, Netanyahu & Modi match made in heaven

 

[www787]

that were headed were ?



maybe because you cannot refute them ? Like the reason for burning alive dozens of Hindu pilgrims ?

you are justifying killing of innocent and current treatment of minority because few Hindus were killed in sectarian violence. Text book definition of racism.

 

[Tusker]

you are justifying killing of innocent and current treatment of minority because few Hindus were killed in sectarian violence. Text book definition of racism.

where did I justify anything ? lol

Let me elaborate ... lets say the guys transporting the cows were murdered by some Hindu. Iam not saying that is right. However Iam saying this: It could have been easily avoided if the guys had basic common sense and respect towards others sensitivities. This is how long term cordial relationships are built. They certainly cannot be built by antagonizing others. Muslims have a very long track record of antagonistic behavior.

 

[www787]

where did I justify anything ? lol

Let me elaborate ... lets say the guys transporting the cows were murdered by some Hindu. Iam not saying that is right. However Iam saying this: It could have been easily avoided if the guys had basic common sense and respect towards others sensitivities. This is how long term cordial relationships are built. They certainly cannot be built by antagonizing others. Muslims have a very long track record of antagonistic behavior.

Again, statement reek of entitlement and justify killing of innocent.

 

[Tusker]

Again, statement reek of entitlement and justify killing of innocent.

Entitlement ? Harming cows is illegal in India. Period. If anything its your brothers who reek of entitlement thru religion.

Despite that ... those Hindus should have been arrested and dealt with for taking law into their hands.