'Narendra Modi is a close friend of Israel': Benjamim Netanyahu

[Madplayer]

based on what? blood of Palestinian Muslims?

Based on the fact that Palestinians have good relations with India. They dont care about the blood of Kashmiri muslims or Pakistan's interests in Kashmir.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Based on the fact that Palestinians have good relations with India. They dont care about the blood of Kashmiri muslims or Pakistan's interests in Kashmir.

How did you know that they don't care about Kashmiri muslims. And should support for oppressed people be based on quid pro quo basis?

 

[Madplayer]

How did you know that they don't care about Kashmiri muslims. And should support for oppressed people be based on quid pro quo basis?

I meant to say that they dont care enough to dismiss any relations with India so why should Pakistan care enough to dismiss relations with Israel?

The support itself shouldnt be on quid pro quo basis but yes the extent of support should be based on quid pro quo. Its because we dont live in an ideal world and as nations, we have expectations.

Consider the following scenario. A person is stealing from you and another person is stealing from me. The person stealing from you wants to trade with me. I tell him in no uncertain terms that i dont want to have any business with him because he is stealing from you. On the other hand you decide to have business with the person who is stealing from me. I would obviously feel bad and would want to reconsider my stance.

 

[Varun]

Based on the fact that Palestinians have good relations with India. They dont care about the blood of Kashmiri muslims or Pakistan's interests in Kashmir.

They've realized that they have nothing to gain or lose by not supporting Pakistan on the Kashmir cause. They're pretty irrelevant, because Pakistan is going to do nothing about them, and India is going to tilt toward Israel.

 

[Madplayer]

They've realized that they have nothing to gain or lose by not supporting Pakistan on the Kashmir cause. They're pretty irrelevant, because Pakistan is going to do nothing about them, and India is going to tilt toward Israel.

Pakistan doesn even recognise Israel as a sovereign state when some of the Arabs have already done so. Thats a pretty big stance they have taken for Palestinians and the gesture hasnt been returned because Palestine continues to have good relations with India.

So this "we care about blood of muslims" has become the fantasy of an Idealist muslim. Unless they mean the blood of an Arab muslim is worth more than a Kashmiri muslim's.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Pakistan doesn even recognise Israel as a sovereign state when some of the Arabs have already done so. Thats a pretty big stance they have taken for Palestinians and the gesture hasnt been returned because Palestine continues to have good relations with India.

So this "we care about blood of muslims" has become the fantasy of an Idealist muslim. Unless they mean the blood of an Arab muslim is worth more than a Kashmiri muslim's.

You can't compare Pakistan and Palestine. One country is even making the USA dance to its tune, while the other is struggling to get recognition as a nation.. Pakistan has the luxury to boycott Israel while Palestine needs support from anywhere it can get.

 

[Varun]

Pakistan doesn even recognise Israel as a sovereign state when some of the Arabs have already done so. Thats a pretty big stance they have taken for Palestinians and the gesture hasnt been returned because Palestine continues to have good relations with India.

So this "we care about blood of muslims" has become the fantasy of an Idealist muslim. Unless they mean the blood of an Arab muslim is worth more than a Kashmiri muslim's.

It is. And Chinese Muslims are yet lower on the rung.

 

[Madplayer]

You can't compare Pakistan and Palestine. One country is even making the USA dance to its tune, while the other is struggling to get recognition as a nation.. Pakistan has the luxury to boycott Israel while Palestine needs support from anywhere it can get.

Thats just an excuse and i have heard it many times. What stops other Arab countries from sending a strong message to India like they send to Israel? The fact is Kashmir isnt an important enough matter for them as compared to Palestine. What message does it send to the world about Kashmiri problem when Arabs including Palestine has good ties with India? Simply not enough pressure is built. But for some reason, Pakistan wants to keep going out of its way by not even recognising Israel. Palestinians have other Arab countries, Kashmir has no one but Pakistan as a voice in the intl. arena.

Having said that, i believe Palestinians deserve all the support they can get. Pakistan should keep supporting them but find a different way to deal with Israel and try to get some benefits from them.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Thats just an excuse and i have heard it many times. What stops other Arab countries from sending a strong message to India like they send to Israel? The fact is Kashmir isnt an important enough matter for them as compared to Palestine. What message does it send to the world about Kashmiri problem when Arabs including Palestine has good ties with India? Simply not enough pressure is built. But for some reason, Pakistan wants to keep going out of its way by not even recognising Israel. Palestinians have other Arab countries, Kashmir has no one but Pakistan as a voice in the intl. arena.

Having said that, i believe Palestinians deserve all the support they can get. Pakistan should keep supporting them but find a different way to deal with Israel and try to get some benefits from them.

Ok if you are talking about other Arab states, and their lack of support then I agree. I doubt they are even sincere about Palestine. I was strictly talking about the Palestinians who are not in a strong position and need support from everywhere they can get.

 

[Madplayer]

It is. And Chinese Muslims are yet lower on the rung.

Yes. Unfortunately its true. And as much as some muslims dont want to admit it, all the "muslim" nations are putting their national interests ahead of the interests of "ummah" as a whole. Dont see why Pakistan shouldnt do the same. Everyone needs to reciprocate love, not just one or two nations.

 

[Madplayer]

Ok if you are talking about other Arab states, and their lack of support then I agree. I doubt they are even sincere about Palestine. I was strictly talking about the Palestinians who are not in a strong position and need support from everywhere they can get.

Unfortunately for Palestine, thats not how things in international relations work. Its always give and take. Pakistan needs to understand it too.

 

[Madplayer]

Yes, Pakistan should become another India which follows the scent of money.

While growing up in India, yasser arafat and saddam hussein were good guys, and the elders ( non muslims ) talked about the downfall of USA. Within 2 decades, I see Indians acting more american than americans and proud of USA's foreign policy. You want Pakistan to join this unfair and unholy alliance just because some arab nations are doing the same.

No, i want Pakistan to do what is in its best interests. Kashmir is an interest of Pakistan and they cant have arabs including Palestine turn a blind eye to it. If they do, Pakistan should stop kidding itself with one ummah ideology and reconsider their stance on Israel. I am also saying this as a Kashmiri considering Kashmir's own interests.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Two of the most corrupt human beings on planet earth walking side by side, no surprises here.


Both are mass murderers of Muslims.

 

[Varun]

Two of the most corrupt human beings on planet earth walking side by side, no surprises here.

Corrupt? Not more or less than any other politician you would think.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Based on the fact that Palestinians have good relations with India. They dont care about the blood of Kashmiri muslims or Pakistan's interests in Kashmir.

Which muslim majority country have taken a stance againist India in favour of Pakistan or Kashmiri separatists?

Some are even signing defence agreements with India.

Why will Palestine be an exception?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Corrupt? Not more or less than any other politician you would think.

Modi certainly is far less corrupt than any other Indian PM in last couple of decades. Vajpayee being an exception.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Corrupt? Not more or less than any other politician you would think.

Our own Nawaz Shareef ain't behind by much margin...

It is sad, if you think about it.

But I guess that's how the world works.

 

[CricketCartoons]

One anagram of Netanyahu+Modi is Inhumane Toady.

 

[Madplayer]

Which muslim majority country have taken a stance againist India in favour of Pakistan or Kashmiri separatists?

Some are even signing defence agreements with India.

Why will Palestine be an exception?

Joshila sahab aapki ek hi post pe atakne ki aadat gayi nahi? Please read the discussion which followed the post you quoted.

And to specifically answer you question, Palestine should be an exception because Pakistan has taken a stance against Israel for Palestine. Infact i would want all Arab muslims to take a stand against India on Kashmir. It goes without saying. And If they dont, Pakistan should reconsider its policies towards them including Palestine.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Joshila sahab aapki ek hi post pe atakne ki aadat gayi nahi? Please read the discussion which followed the post you quoted.

And to specifically answer you question, Palestine should be an exception because Pakistan has taken a stance against Israel for Palestine. Infact i would want all Arab muslims to take a stand against India on Kashmir. It goes without saying. And If they dont, Pakistan should reconsider its policies towards them including Palestine.

Bhai maine to kai baar poocha hai yehi, ki kyun koi tumhaare liye kisi se jhagra lega?

Why will Arab states take stand againist India? For what purpose?Its not their problem that Pakistan or a some Kashmiri separatists have issues with India. Its your issue you get it sorted.

 

[Madplayer]

Bhai maine to kai baar poocha hai yehi, ki kyun koi tumhaare liye kisi se jhagra lega?

Why will Arab states take stand againist India? For what purpose?Its not their problem that Pakistan or a some Kashmiri separatists have issues with India. Its your issue you get it sorted.

This is exactly what i am saying. In today's world , international relations follow a give and take approach. Pakistan should realize this and reconsider its stance against Israel if the Arabs in general and Palestinians in Particular aren't reciprocating the goodwill gesture by taking a stand against India on Kashmir.

I am actually agreeing with you. National interests should come first in this day and age.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-india-42659135?__twitter_impression=true

One of the most evocative stories from the Mumbai attacks is that of the Israeli toddler saved by his Indian nanny as gunmen killed both his parents. He is now set to revisit the site of the attack with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. BBC Hindi's Zubair Ahmed met his family in Israel.

Every night before going to bed, 11-year-old Moshe Holtzberg looks up at the photo of his smiling parents hanging above his bed and wishes them good night.

Gabi and Rivka Holtzberg were killed in Chabad House, a Jewish cultural centre in the western Indian city of Mumbai, during a deadly attack in 2008. Moshe was barely two years old at the time.

He now lives in the Israeli city of Afula with his maternal grandparents. He misses his parents, says his grandfather, Rabbi Rosenberg. He knows how they died, he adds.

The safety and comfort that surrounds Moshe at his grandparents' home is in sharp contrast to the violence that orphaned him nearly 10 years ago.

The 60-hour siege of India's financial capital was one of the worst terror attacks on Indian soil and claimed the lives of 166 people. Nine gunmen also died. Mohammad Ajmal Amir Qasab, the sole surviving gunman, was arrested and tried, before being executed in 2012 .

India blamed Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba for the attacks.

The gunmen carried out a series of co-ordinated attacks across Mumbai targeting seven different locations, including two luxury hotels, the main railway station and the Jewish centre where the Holtzbergs had been living.

Moshe was saved by his nanny, Sandra Samuel, who said she found him standing over the unconscious bodies of his parents. She is believed to have grabbed him and fled outside.

It remains unclear what Moshe witnessed but, according to his family, he suffered nightmares for months and had trouble sleeping .

The BBC was unable to meet Moshe because Mr Rosenberg says the psychologist has advised that he be shielded from the media.

But he spoke at length about his grandson, whom he affectionately calls "Moshe boy".


Rabbi Rosenberg dotes on his grandson, whom he calls "Moshe boy"
"Moshe boy has been asking about the Chabad House and about India," Mr Rosenberg says. "He is quite excited."

Moshe, along with his grandparents and Ms Samuel are part of the delegation of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who is on an official four-day visit.

This will be Moshe's first time in India since the attack. It will be an emotional journey, Mr Rosenberg says.

Moshe was invited by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi who had met the boy during his visit to Israel in July .

Moshe is expected to spend time with Mr Netanyahu at the centre where his parents were killed.

"Moshe boy will show him [Mr Netanyahu] around. He will take him to his room," said Mr Rosenberg.

In Moshe's room in Afula there are two globes on his study table. "Moshe boy is a keen student of geography and mathematics," Mr Rosenberg says with pride.

Mr Rosenberg dotes on Moshe but, he says, it took a long time to bond with his grandson.

"When we brought him here, he would cry during the day and at night. He would ask 'where is my papa, where is my mama'."

Instead, he would cling to Ms Samuel.

"Initially, he wouldn't come to me," says Mr Rosenberg. "Maybe because I wore black clothes and the terrorists had a black mask."

But he didn't give up. He bought two bicycles, one for Moshe and one for himself, and the two of them would go cycling together.


A photo of Moshe's parents hangs above his bed
Gradually, they built a relationship.

"I took him to places he would be interested in. I felt I had become young again," says Mr Rosenberg.

And he says Ms Samuel helped a lot, too. The Rosenbergs helped her get Israeli citizenship and she now lives in Jerusalem, a two-hour drive from Afula.

She works elsewhere but spends weekends with Moshe and his family. "She is family," Mr Rosenberg says.

"If she is late, Moshe boy becomes anxious. He picks up the phone and calls her to ask why she is late."


The Rosenbergs' home in the Israeli city of Afula
Moshe, according to his grandfather, wants to be a rabbi like his father, Gabi.

His parents had moved to Mumbai seven years before the attack to work at Chabad House. Their life in Mumbai had revolved around Jewish people visiting the city and other parts of India.

Moshe is likely to follow in their footsteps.

"He is too little now. But when he is older he might like to go to Mumbai and work at the Chabad House," says Mr Rosenberg, who is already readying Moshe for that role.

 

[Snak3eye5]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-india-42659135?__twitter_impression=true

This is sad. Had no idea... And amazing story about the nanny who could have saved herself but ran out with the boy..Thas true courage putting someone else life over you're own..

I still feel it was a big fail by Indian intelligence that they couldn't avert this. So many innocent lives lost.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Entitlement ? Harming cows is illegal in India. Period. If anything its your brothers who reek of entitlement thru religion.

You are tying yourself in knots. The reason why harming cows is illegal in India is because the Cow is sacred in Hinduism. Meaning, an entitlement through religion.

What do you want non-muslims to do in India then? Not eat beef?

 

[R3verse Swing]

Our own Nawaz Shareef ain't behind by much margin...

It is sad, if you think about it.

But I guess that's how the world works.

At least Pakistan's supreme court found Nawas Shareef guilty! I wonder if the impending corruption charges on Nethanyahu will come to fruition. Plus it is common knowledge that there are next to no corruption laws in India. So Indian leaders can play the game and get away with it.

 

[someone21]

You are tying yourself in knots. The reason why harming cows is illegal in India is because the Cow is sacred in Hinduism. Meaning, an entitlement through religion.

What do you want non-muslims to do in India then? Not eat beef?

Its is the constitution about the harming cows. Now muslims have to follow it as well. Also, why do they purposefully have incite violence by harming cows? There was one shocking video of kerela last year.

Also, there is a lot of illegal smuggling done and its good many people are getting caught now. A lot of whining is related to it as theives are losing their liveihood.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Its is the constitution about the harming cows. Now muslims have to follow it as well. Also, why do they purposefully have incite violence by harming cows? There was one shocking video of kerela last year.

Also, there is a lot of illegal smuggling done and its good many people are getting caught now. A lot of whining is related to it as theives are losing their liveihood.

Let me put it another way. Is it illegal to harm a chicken or a goat in India? If not, why not?

The point the Cow is sacred to Hindus, hence it is protected by the constitution.

Also for some perspective, in Saudi Arabia, swine is forbidden, however can be bought in compounded areas where USA/UK migrants work. In UAE, alcohol is banned, but can be found in hotels etc. You get the point.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You are tying yourself in knots. The reason why harming cows is illegal in India is because the Cow is sacred in Hinduism. Meaning, an entitlement through religion.

What do you want non-muslims to do in India then? Not eat beef?

The reason why charlie hebdo cartoons cant be published in India or Satanic verses is banned in India is because its offensive to muslims. Entitlement through religion.

India doesnot need to copy the secularism system of any other nation.

Eating beef isnt banned. Slaughtering cows is.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Let me put it another way. Is it illegal to harm a chicken or a goat in India? If not, why not?

The point the Cow is sacred to Hindus, hence it is protected by the constitution.

Also for some perspective, in Saudi Arabia, swine is forbidden, however can be bought in compounded areas where USA/UK migrants work. In UAE, alcohol is banned, but can be found in hotels etc. You get the point.

Wrong comparison. The like for like comparison would be if Saudi Arabia allows defiling of what is sacred.

 

[R3verse Swing]

The reason why charlie hebdo cartoons cant be published in India or Satanic verses is banned in India is because its offensive to muslims. Entitlement through religion.

India doesnot need to copy the secularism system of any other nation.

Eating beef isnt banned. Slaughtering cows is.

I agree, my point to Tusket was simply religious entitlement is not exclusive to Muslims as he claims Muslims are hell bent on antagonising others, but other faiths in India too, such as Hinduism.

However, please stop saying India doesn't need to copy secularism system of another nation. Secularism is secularism, there are no grey areas; a nation is either secular, or it isn't. Yet if you insist, India does copy the democratic system of other nations.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Wrong comparison. The like for like comparison would be if Saudi Arabia allows defiling of what is sacred.

Nope, the comparison is simple, Swine and Alcohol are forbidden, but Westerners are not beaten to death for consuming such entities, in fact, said nations have provisions - or simply put - extenuating circumstance not punishable by death.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Eating beef isnt banned. Slaughtering cows is.

How can you eat beef without slaughtering cows?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Nope, the comparison is simple, Swine and Alcohol are forbidden, but Westerners are not beaten to death for consuming such entities, in fact, said nations have provisions - or simply put - extenuating circumstance not punishable by death.

For your comparison to be valid, swine must be considered sacred, like cow is. And then if westerners are not beaten to death for consuming holy swine like holy cow then indeed your point is valid.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

This is sad. Had no idea... And amazing story about the nanny who could have saved herself but ran out with the boy..Thas true courage putting someone else life over you're own..

I still feel it was a big fail by Indian intelligence that they couldn't avert this. So many innocent lives lost.

Yep that's a fair point. Also, almost 10 years on and there is no sign of an independent commission/inquiry into the attacks.

 

[Tusker]

Let me put it another way. Is it illegal to harm a chicken or a goat in India? If not, why not?

The point the Cow is sacred to Hindus, hence it is protected by the constitution.

Also for some perspective, in Saudi Arabia, swine is forbidden, however can be bought in compounded areas where USA/UK migrants work. In UAE, alcohol is banned, but can be found in hotels etc. You get the point.

If Muslims think that is not right then the right way to go about it is through legislative amendments. Not by being thugs and violating law. Believe me there is no shortage of Fake Secularists in India who will happily work with Muslims on this issue.

But once backed by constitution then it becomes a matter of enforceable law and hence why it is not something that can be called Entitlement.

BTW the same constitution also supports Sharia. I don't see you complaining about that which is not surprising at all.

 

[Napa]

This is expected as both share a common enemy.

The irony is Mein Kepf is India's best seller! Hitler's book has sold more in India than in any country in the world! - Best Seller

Back in Delhi when I was about 20 years old I bought a copy of Mein Kampf, not because I had any Nazi inclinations, but because I was curious about the war, and it was an affordable paperback. Read very little of it though, it was really quite boring.

I also bought and incompletely read the Gita, the Koran and many other books that I thought were related to important movements in history.

 

[R3verse Swing]

If Muslims think that is not right then the right way to go about it is through legislative amendments. Not by being thugs and violating law. Believe me there is no shortage of Fake Secularists in India who will happily work with Muslims on this issue.

But once backed by constitution then it becomes a matter of enforceable law and hence why it is not something that can be called Entitlement.

BTW the same constitution also supports Sharia. I don't see you complaining about that which is not surprising at all.

Your response is mostly irrelevant.

All I did was pull you up on the fact that the protection of Cows is also an *entitlement through religion* with respect to Hindus, and said phenomena is not just exclusive to Muslims.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Back in Delhi when I was about 20 years old I bought a copy of Mein Kampf, not because I had any Nazi inclinations, but because I was curious about the war, and it was an affordable paperback. Read very little of it though, it was really quite boring.

I also bought and incompletely read the Gita, the Koran and many other books that I thought were related to important movements in history.

My friend, I was not inferring that Indians were Nazis, but rather Holocaust revisionism is more prominent outside of North America and Europe.

 

[Tusker]

Your response is mostly irrelevant.

All I did was pull you up on the fact that the protection of Cows is also an *entitlement through religion* with respect to Hindus, and said phenomena is not just exclusive to Muslims.

And how exactly have you "pulled" me up on this matter given that Cow protection is legal and backed by constitution ? If seeking justice through proper process (Not taking matters in own hand) on this amounts to entitlement then so is seeking justice for a persons Murder. Both are criminal acts as per Indian laws and have their punishments.

 

[R3verse Swing]

And how exactly have you "pulled" me up on this matter given that Cow protection is legal and backed by constitution ? If seeking justice through proper process (Not taking matters in own hand) on this amounts to entitlement then so is seeking justice for a persons Murder. Both are criminal acts as per Indian laws and have their punishments.

The constitution would not be protecting the rights of a cow if a cow was not considered sacred in Hinduism. Meaning the law is derived by an entitlement through religion. Get it?

In other words, why is a chicken or a goat not protected by the constitution?

 

[cricketjoshila]

How can you eat beef without slaughtering cows?

Import.

Plus buffalo meat is also beef sir.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Import.

Plus buffalo meat is also beef sir.

Import? Beef comes under prohibited imported goods. Beef cannot be imported into India.

Prohibited Goods to/from India

 

[R3verse Swing]

On an interesting note, Pork is permitted for import to India, on the condition the Pig was not fed with feed derived from cows/beef/ beef products.

Beef-free pork import

 

[Tusker]

The constitution would not be protecting the rights of a cow if a cow was not considered sacred in Hinduism. Meaning the law is derived by an entitlement through religion. Get it?

In other words, why is a chicken or a goat not protected by the constitution?

You have a point if EVERYTHING prescribed by Hinduism (Or any other Religion ) is protected wholesale by our constitution. Or that other religious groups don't have their share of similar laws. That is not the case. Moreover there are other religions (Jains, Buddhists) who also are in favor of this. Therefore it is not any 'Entitlement". Besides constitutions are subject to amendments.

And if you look at the history ... Gandhi before 1947 had clearly advocated for a India that would make cow protection a priority. One of the many reasons why Jinnah parted ways. If Muslims were so much against this they shouldn't have stayed back.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You have a point if EVERYTHING prescribed by Hinduism (Or any other Religion ) is protected wholesale by our constitution. Or that other religious groups don't have their share of similar laws. That is not the case. Moreover there are other religions (Jains, Buddhists) who also are in favor of this. Therefore it is not any 'Entitlement". Besides constitutions are subject to amendments.

And if you look at the history ... Gandhi before 1947 had clearly advocated for a India that would make cow protection a priority. One of the many reasons why Jinnah parted ways. If Muslims were so much against this they shouldn't have stayed back.

Yes yes, but I asked you why is a Chicken or a Goat not protected by the Indian constitution?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Import? Beef comes under prohibited imported goods. Beef cannot be imported into India.

Prohibited Goods to/from India

No. It can be exported and imported into India. India exports a large amount of beef. Mostly buffalo meat. You have to apply for special permission for this. During Id Ul Zuha animals are indeed imported into India.

 

[R3verse Swing]

No. It can be exported and imported into India. India exports a large amount of beef. Mostly buffalo meat. You have to apply for special permission for this. During Id Ul Zuha animals are indeed imported into India.

I am not saying other animals are not permitted, but Beef and Wild Offal is prohibited from imports/exports as per http://dgft.gov.in/ (Official Indian Government website).

 

[cricketjoshila]

I am not saying other animals are not permitted, but Beef and Wild Offal is prohibited from imports/exports as per http://dgft.gov.in/ (Official Indian Government website).

You look up that site and you see a number of animals being not permitted. You have to apply for special license for import.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You look up that site and you see a number of animals being not permitted. You have to apply for special license for import.

Yes, animals not being permitted, beef - ala Cows.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes, animals not being permitted, beef - ala Cows.

You have to apply for permission. The items not on the list can be permitted with a general import license.For things on the list you have to apply for permission.

Beef means cow buffalo bulls all. India is one of the biggest exporters of beef.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You have to apply for permission. The items not on the list can be permitted with a general import license.For things on the list you have to apply for permission.

Beef means cow buffalo bulls all. India is one of the biggest exporters of beef.

I think you are on a wind up.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think you are on a wind up.

Please check it.

After Brazil India is the biggest exporter of beef.

 

[Tusker]

Yes yes, but I asked you why is a Chicken or a Goat not protected by the Indian constitution?

because they are not sacred . I thought that was obvious hence did not respond. Except for Jains for whom all life is sacred. But you don't see Jains beating their chests and going militant because their religious beliefs have been violated. Instead they put their effort into convincing people through reason. This is how a civil society works. But Muslims on the other hand .....

 

[R3verse Swing]

because they are not sacred .

There you go. In one full circle.

Why are cows sacred? Entitlement through religion (Hinduism).

That's one massive circle and concession. Like I said, you were tying yourself in knots.

[Rest of your post was irrelevant]

 

[R3verse Swing]

Please check it.

After Brazil India is the biggest exporter of beef.

Well, for what it is worth, I have learned something new today. Depending on which source, India is indeed the 2nd to 4th largest exporter of beef, albeit buffalo beef.

I dare ask, why is it McDonalds in India then does not offer beef on its menu considering India is one of largest exporters of beef?

Does this not smack of irony?

 

[Tusker]

There you go. In one full circle.

Why are cows sacred? Entitlement through religion (Hinduism).

That's one massive circle and concession. Like I said, you were tying yourself in knots.

[Rest of your post was irrelevant]

Then what would be the meaning and example of Unlawful in this case ? you got stuck again dont you ?

By definition entitlement implies that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. This is not the case because it has been legislated. Yes there is a Religious basis for the law but also cultural basis as Most Jains , Buddhists and Sikhs also consider the cow as a sacred life form. once accepted and vote by majority it becomes the law. Thats how democracies work. Its not always perfect but thats the best system known to mankind. I know in Pakistan things work differently therefore your confusion but bottomline is this falls more in line of being within the legal framework or not.

Infact Muslims are the one that are claiming Entitlement even if it breaks the law because thats what they have been able to do and get away with it for all these years. Doesnt mean that every generation will bend over.

 

[Tusker]

[MENTION=146465]R3verse Swing[/MENTION]

Going by your definition of Entitlement ... does the US Govt having Dec'25th as a holiday constitute as "Entitlement" then ?

 

[R3verse Swing]

[MENTION=146465]R3verse Swing[/MENTION]

Going by your definition of Entitlement ... does the US Govt having Dec'25th as a holiday constitute as "Entitlement" then ?

Sigh.

It was not my definition, it was yours.

 

[Tusker]

Sigh.

It was not my definition, it was yours.

ehhh ?

Christians are a maority in US - same as hindus are in India
Christmas is a legal religious holiday (but not say Krishna Janmashtami or ay other religious figures birthday) - Same as cow protection is a law in India but not other animals

therefore the US is not a true secular state because it enacted a law based on religious "entitlement" for majority ( same case with Hindus and India )

Isnt that your main point ?

 

[Gabbar Singh]

I see Hamid Karzai is in town too.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Isnt that your main point ?

No this is not my point at all. My point was that you claimed Muslims antagonise others based on enlightenment through religion. I was merely pointing out that entitlement through religion is not exclusive to Muslims in India (as you proclaim) given the Indian constitution protects cows based on Hindu’s entitlement to religion.

It’s a two way street.

Good night, and god bless!

 

[Tusker]

No this is not my point at all. My point was that you claimed Muslims antagonise others based on enlightenment through religion. I was merely pointing out that entitlement through religion is not exclusive to Muslims in India (as you proclaim) given the Indian constitution protects cows based on Hindu’s entitlement to religion.

It’s a two way street.

Good night, and god bless!

why and how does "Cow protection" antagonize Muslims on a religious level (Especially when it was stated upfront at Partition time that India will go that route) that makes you claim that Hindus are equally antagonistic by trying to protect Cows? Sorry you have no leg to stand on here in this case.

A better example of antagonistic behavior towards Muslims would be Drawing the Prophets picture. While it is not illegal in India you will find nobody indulging in it just to antagonize Muslims. As I have said Hindus have bent backwords to appease Muslims to no end ( Hajj Subsidy, Muslim Personal Law , Special status to Kashmir etc etc ).

So when in return what they see is events like Godhra, ethnic cleansing of Pandits, Amarnath problems, Ram Mandir issue etc etc etc then naturally the Right wing will stand up and do what it takes to protect their interests. And if you notice none of the other Minority groups in India have any major issues with Hindus which suggests that the problem lies more with Muslims rigid way of life that is not compatible with modern way of life that requires assimilation. And its not just Hindus that have issues with Muslims the same nonsensical conflicts exists between most other popular religions in the world.

 

[Tusker]

( to answer your post on the other thread with the same theme )

Spot on. I do not understand why Indians are pretending their nation is secular, when they should man up and admit that Modi/Yogi/BJP represent the preservation, longevity, and superiority of the Hindu faith in India. I certainly would have more respect for someone who pulls punches from the front.

Secularism does not mean that one party can do whatever the heck they want regardless of whether or not it violates someone elses religious beliefs. Harming a Cow is the exact same as Drawing a Prophet. If you dont like that then you should know better than harming a cow. Its called give and take. this is how mature people coexist in the real world. Not by going violent because of their unshakable belief that their God is the only true god and every other god is fake therefore they cannot be wrong !!. No one in this day and age will put up with that.

 

[ManFan]

( to answer your post on the other thread with the same theme )



Secularism does not mean that one party can do whatever the heck they want regardless of whether or not it violates someone elses religious beliefs. Harming a Cow is the exact same as Drawing a Prophet. If you dont like that then you should know better than harming a cow. Its called give and take. this is how mature people coexist in the real world. Not by going violent because of their unshakable belief that their God is the only true god and every other god is fake therefore they cannot be wrong !!. No one in this day and age will put up with that.

Except the PM is not exactly known as a “ mature person “. At least in your definition.

 

[ManFan]

why and how does "Cow protection" antagonize Muslims on a religious level (Especially when it was stated upfront at Partition time that India will go that route) that makes you claim that Hindus are equally antagonistic by trying to protect Cows? Sorry you have no leg to stand on here in this case.

A better example of antagonistic behavior towards Muslims would be Drawing the Prophets picture. While it is not illegal in India you will find nobody indulging in it just to antagonize Muslims. As I have said Hindus have bent backwords to appease Muslims to no end ( Hajj Subsidy, Muslim Personal Law , Special status to Kashmir etc etc ).

So when in return what they see is events like Godhra, ethnic cleansing of Pandits, Amarnath problems, Ram Mandir issue etc etc etc then naturally the Right wing will stand up and do what it takes to protect their interests. And if you notice none of the other Minority groups in India have any major issues with Hindus which suggests that the problem lies more with Muslims rigid way of life that is not compatible with modern way of life that requires assimilation. And its not just Hindus that have issues with Muslims the same nonsensical conflicts exists between most other popular religions in the world.

Muslim life is not compatible with modern way of life? For every Pakistan there is a Libya. That is before outside involvement. The problem lies in intolerance. In Western society it is small. In Eastern society it is on a larger level due to weak enforcement of law and order. The rule is the same everywhere no matter the ideology. The strong push the weak and ask them not to cry about it either. The Ottomans were guilty of it, the Conquistadors, Pakistan during 71’, Israel, and India. You might have noticed that all major religions preach peace yet you see slaughtering and cleansing everywhere. Is it due to the philosophy? No. The quote “ I like your Christ but not your Christians “. That sums it up.

 

[Madplayer]

I see Hamid Karzai is in town too.

Hamid Karzai sharing a stage with Netanyahoo. Cant get more embarrassing for the Afghans.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Happy to ally with and take billions of $s in alms from Uncle Sam, who were responsible for immeasurable suffering in the Muslim world post 9/11, yet when it comes to India and Israel suddenly people like this find their moral compass.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan criticises Benjamin Netanyahu's visit to India, says both India and Israel have anti-Islam nexus<a href="https://t.co/Z4BZqeAyHH">https://t.co/Z4BZqeAyHH</a></p>— Republic (@republic) <a href="https://twitter.com/republic/status/953503282789466113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">17 January 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[cricketjoshila]

Happy to ally with and take billions of $s in alms from Uncle Sam, who were responsible for immeasurable suffering in the Muslim world post 9/11, yet when it comes to India and Israel suddenly people like this find their moral compass.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan criticises Benjamin Netanyahu's visit to India, says both India and Israel have anti-Islam nexus<a href="https://t.co/Z4BZqeAyHH">https://t.co/Z4BZqeAyHH</a></p>— Republic (@republic) <a href="https://twitter.com/republic/status/953503282789466113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">17 January 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Why did he even need a compass? India-Israel, where does Pakistan come in?

 

[R3verse Swing]

Why did he even need a compass? India-Israel, where does Pakistan come in?

I hope you are paying heed to your own statement since you mention Pakistan in every discussion (I have read), in particular, this thread on Israel and India.

 

[Tusker]

Except the PM is not exactly known as a “ mature person “. At least in your definition.

So the few 100 millions that voted for him are all idiots ?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I hope you are paying heed to your own statement since you mention Pakistan in every discussion (I have read), in particular, this thread on Israel and India.

Since a pakistani is dragging India, Pakistan too will be dragged.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Since a pakistani is dragging India, Pakistan too will be dragged.

You mean like this thread is about Nethanyahu and Modi's friendship but Pakistan is being dragged into this thread? Just saying!

 

[www787]

( to answer your post on the other thread with the same theme )



Secularism does not mean that one party can do whatever the heck they want regardless of whether or not it violates someone elses religious beliefs. Harming a Cow is the exact same as Drawing a Prophet. If you dont like that then you should know better than harming a cow. Its called give and take. this is how mature people coexist in the real world. Not by going violent because of their unshakable belief that their God is the only true god and every other god is fake therefore they cannot be wrong !!. No one in this day and age will put up with that.

Yet no one in a true secular country would be put to behind bars or death by government for drawing, in India it is crime to have juicy beef steak.

India isn’t a secular country no matter how hard you try to make it seem like it is.

 

[Tusker]

Yet no one in a true secular country would be put to behind bars or death by government for drawing,

Not sure what you mean ... don't think anyone actually drew a Prophet in India

But check this out: https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/01/mohammed-in-pictures/

in India it is crime to have juicy beef steak.

Because its the law. Don't like the law ? Then there is a process to get it changed.

India isn’t a secular country no matter how hard you try to make it seem like it is.

Your opinion does not make it a fact. If anything the image of India suffers mainly because of Muslims tendency to wear their religion on their Sleeves everywhere everytime. Once a significant chunk of population starts to actually implement their belief that says "There is no God but ours" then it will naturally lead to conflicts. Nothing surprising there.

 

[www787]

Not sure what you mean ... don't think anyone actually drew a Prophet in India

But check this out: https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/01/mohammed-in-pictures/




Because its the law. Don't like the law ? Then there is a process to get it changed.



Your opinion does not make it a fact. If anything the image of India suffers mainly because of Muslims tendency to wear their religion on their Sleeves everywhere everytime. Once a significant chunk of population starts to actually implement their belief that says "There is no God but ours" then it will naturally lead to conflicts. Nothing surprising there.

India isn’t a secular country no matter how hard you try to sell it.

India’s image suffer because people were killed for transporting cows, rape of local and tourist female, and not clean enough. But, as usual your inherited hate and racist view towards d particular group of people won’t let you see that.

Again, India isn’t a secular country.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India isn’t a secular country no matter how hard you try to sell it.

India’s image suffer because people were killed for transporting cows, rape of local and tourist female, and not clean enough. But, as usual your inherited hate and racist view towards d particular group of people won’t let you see that.

Again, India isn’t a secular country.

Again, thats your opinion and not the narrative that the world follows.

 

[akki]

India isn’t a secular country no matter how hard you try to sell it.

India’s image suffer because people were killed for transporting cows, rape of local and tourist female, and not clean enough. But, as usual your inherited hate and racist view towards d particular group of people won’t let you see that.

Again, India isn’t a secular country.

If and only if your opinion matters to rest of the world.india has been the best secular country in the world having largest hindus ,second largest muslims,largest sikhs and large amount of budhist,christians,jains and other small religions as well...a place where world maximum number of religions originated is not secular than nothing can ever be secular. This is our belief and this is the whole world belief except one islamic nation. ..

 

[www787]

If and only if your opinion matters to rest of the world.india has been the best secular country in the world having largest hindus ,second largest muslims,largest sikhs and large amount of budhist,christians,jains and other small religions as well...a place where world maximum number of religions originated is not secular than nothing can ever be secular. This is our belief and this is the whole world belief except one islamic nation. ..

Secularism is described by separation of religion and laws, if a law is design to support religion of majority over minority it isn’t consider a secular country.
You and your nationalist compadre can dismiss this fact by stating it is my opinion but facts is a fact. I’m not trying to insult India. As a Pakistani I’d want to see a secular India, end of radicalism in government, protection and respect of all Indian female along with same in Pakistan, the only way to attain peace in sun-continent. Both country has to get away from radicalism and walk toward secularism.
Don’t get upset if someone point out the fact, which is India isn’t a secular country no matter how hard, one day it will be, hopefully.

 

[www787]

Again, thats your opinion and not the narrative that the world follows.

Largest democracy but not a secular country. You can’t dismiss fact with opinion.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Will my Bollywood selfie beat <a href="https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheEllenShow</a> Hollywood selfie at the Oscars? <a href="https://twitter.com/SrBachchan?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@SrBachchan</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/juniorbachchan?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@juniorbachchan</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/rajcheerfull?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@rajcheerfull</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/imbhandarkar?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@imbhandarkar</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/vivek_oberoi?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@vivek_oberoi</a> @ <a href="https://t.co/v1r0GIhKLy">pic.twitter.com/v1r0GIhKLy</a></p>— Benjamin Netanyahu (@netanyahu) <a href="https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/954037352749387776?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 18, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>