'Naseem Shah is too short, he won't make it'

[Kroll]

Poor kid, getting flamed tonight.

 

[moghul]

Height is not the only thing he does not possess to be a fast bowler of FC level.

 

[sindhiboy]

Needs to go to domestic

 

[Slog]

Height is a disadvantage for him but that’s not his main issue. Lack of fast bowling skills and lack of understanding of how to set up a batsman are much more important issues which will hold him back and ensure he ends his career with a mid 30s average. Even if he was 6’2 he wouldn’t have been a great bowler but pace + bounce would have helped

 

[Bhaijaan]

Another case of nicemanship ruining a promising talent. Just give him a one month camp with Shabby or even a week camp with Gangsta Asif and you will notice he would have learn more than he would never have in years of domestic Cricket. Remember Athletics and Badboyism have a connection deeper than some of you understand.

 

[Indiafan]

Shami and Bumrah are similar heights (an inch here or there). Bumrah averages 20 in tests. Shami averages 27

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Shami and Bumrah are similar heights (an inch here or there). Bumrah averages 20 in tests. Shami averages 27

Pakistani fan's just find ways to ignore truth that these player's are skilless and not talented to learn more

 

[Junaids]

There are two main sides to this: FACTS and REASONS.

I am 50 years old. I have been watching Test cricket since 1975, And here are the FACTS:

FACTS
1. In 45 years of watching Test cricket, I have seen 3 fast bowlers shorter than 6 feet tall make successful careers.

2. Those three bowlers had the following heights:
Malcolm Marshall 5'11
Ryan Harris 5'11
Dale Steyn 5'10 - and he became ineffective when his median pace fell under 143K.

3. There are no bowlers shorter than 5'10 in that list. There is nobody who is 5'9 whatsoever, let alone 5'8 1/2 like Naseem Shah. (I stood next to Naseem Shah at the hotel in Adelaide, although I couldn't communicate with him. He's a little under 5'9.)

4. The same is true of football goalkeepers. In my lifetime two goalies shorter than 6'0 have had a top career: France's Fabien Barthez and Ipswich Town's Paul Cooper, both of whom - like Marshall and Harris - are 5'11 tall.

5. It is therefore a fact that anyone arguing that a fast bowler or goalkeeper shorter than 5'10 can play at the highest level in the modern game is making it up.

They are creating an argument based on what they would like to be the case rather than on FACTS. The evidence that you can be a top goalie or Test fast bowler if you are less than 5'10 tall is precisely the same as the evidence that you can be a top goalie or fast bowler if you are female, or have one leg, or are a gerbil.

6. Sadly there is increasing evidence - much of it from Pakistan - that the shorter you are the more you will struggle. Mohammad Amir has the same skills and pace as Wasim Akram. But he is 5'11 1/2 compared with 6'3.

REASONS
The OP talks about hitting the stumps. And unwittingly he has hit on the reason.

Compare Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis in the West Indies in 1992-93. Waqar was more destructive and faster, and took more wickets. But Pakistan, as always, could only compete if it was a low-scoring series.

Any fast bowler in Tests needs to do the same job - get 5 balls per over aimed at the top of off-stump. But as the grass died and the bounce dulled, Waqar had to bowl 6 inches fuller than Wasim to hit the top of off-stump. If Wasim pitched up to three inches too short or too full or too wide the batsman still couldn't play an attacking stroke because his length was still stifling. But when Waqar pitched the ball one inch too wide or too full or too short he either bowled a half-volley which was driven to the boundary or a long-hop which was cut or pulled. And Brian Lara and Desmond Haynes could and did take the first two Tests away from Pakistan in less than a session of batting.

Test cricket is a really hard game for fast bowlers after the ball goes soft and loses its shine. That means overs 20-80 with a Kookaburra and 40-80 with a Dukes ball.

And only two solutions have been found in my lifetime. Either tamper with the old ball to make it reverse, or pack your team with giants to keep the scoring rate down.

Think back to the First Test in Brisbane last November. Not when Pakistan was bowling, but when they were batting.

On Day 1 Pakistan reached around 65-0 at lunch. But Australia nowadays prefer an attack of Starc (6'6), Hazlewood (6'5) and Cummins (6'4). Justin Langer explicitly acknowledges that Pattinson (6'1) is more skilful but is only a reserve because he is shorter and cannot dry up the scoring rate the same way.

Pakistan reached 75-0 after 37 overs, but Australia after lunch had gone into "giant quicks drying up the scoring rate" mode and couldn't buy a run. Azhar Ali had looked fairly sound against full-pitched attacking bowling, but once the quicks shortened their length by another 2 inches after lunch he was suddenly reduced to edging and playing and missing because at his age he couldn't judge whether to go forward or back.

Pakistan lost 4 wickets in the next 10 overs, but they also only scored 11 runs.

I don't know where I stand on Naseem Shah. He has the finest bowling action of any Pakistani that I have ever seen - better than Wasim Akram, better than Imran Khan. It's just mesmerising.

But as I stated earlier, only 3 quicks in my 50 years have made it at a height shorter than 6'0. And none of them were as short as Naseem Shah.

Shaheen Shah Afridi has a fraction of Naseem Shah's skill. But even on an off-day - and we all have them - he will still be 6'6 tall and trouble every batsman. Shaheen can bowl a spell at 135K and still challenge the batsman. Naseem can't.

Naseem Shah is almost 10 inches shorter and he will never be able to survive on a bad day like Shaheen or Hazlewood or Cummins by relying on bowling a difficult length even when he's a bit out of sorts. He's going to have to be at his best every single day, every single spell. And whereas McGrath and Wasim and Hazlewood and Cummins can endure after their pace falls from 144K to 134K because their height remains the same, Naseem will be like Dale Steyn, reliant on maintaining his pace well into the 140's to keep troubling the batsmen.

Has anything changed?

 

[Junaids]

Shami and Bumrah are similar heights (an inch here or there). Bumrah averages 20 in tests. Shami averages 27

I wish you were right.

Bumrah is two inches taller and has done well everywhere.

Shami is one inch taller, and has an atrocious record in England, Australia and New Zealand.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I wish you were right.

Bumrah is two inches taller and has done well everywhere.

Shami is one inch taller, and has an atrocious record in England, Australia and New Zealand.

Lol so Bumrah’s one inch over Shami accounts for 7 runs average difference? NOT Bumrah’s extraordinarily superior skillset?

I agree extra short bowlers are at a disadvantage and extra tall bowlers have an advantage, but everyone in between really can’t be separated like this haha.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Like too many other Pakistan pace bowlers he just doesn't hit the right areas enough. Don't think it is just about height.

 

[Kroll]

Obviously, his lack of height isn't the main issue of his struggles here. Being so young and raw, he's clearly out of his depth. His perceived X-factor to overcome these has been grossly overestimated.

Added to the fact he's been given some instructions that has clearly confused him and likely carrying an injury, it isn't a good sight watching him bowl at the moment.

 

[Indiafan]

I wish you were right.

Bumrah is two inches taller and has done well everywhere.

Shami is one inch taller, and has an atrocious record in England, Australia and New Zealand.

All these bowlers are classified as short. Naseem is only 17, so he will grow an inch or 2 for sure. You really think those extra inches are making the difference? Shami has some great defining spells in all those countries you mentioned in recent times.

P.S. In your original post you mentioned 6 feet as minimum. Why are changing goal posts to include 5 feet 9 Bumrah?

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

He is not there yet, full stop. He is young and needs to play domestic. I am afraid after spanking from Domestic he will never get picked up

 

[JibranAnsari]

His run up is shorter now and hence he is trying to bwnd his back more to get the same speed he used to get with longer run up momentum. He has overstepped a lot in aearch of speed , someone has ill advised him to shorten his run up. Fast bowlers need to have rythm and he is missing that because of the tweak in his run up.

He needs to see bowling action specialist , he can bowl upto 150 kph and if he is not bowling it please revert to the previous run up.

I have not given up on him yet.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Obviously, his lack of height isn't the main issue of his struggles here. Being so young and raw, he's clearly out of his depth. His perceived X-factor to overcome these has been grossly overestimated.

Added to the fact he's been given some instructions that has clearly confused him and likely carrying an injury, it isn't a good sight watching him bowl at the moment.

His run up is shorter now and hence he is trying to bwnd his back more to get the same speed he used to get with longer run up momentum. He has overstepped a lot in aearch of speed , someone has ill advised him to shorten his run up. Fast bowlers need to have rythm and he is missing that because of the tweak in his run up.

He needs to see bowling action specialist , he can bowl upto 150 kph and if he is not bowling it please revert to the previous run up.

I have not given up on him yet.

Not carrying an injury from my observations because there's not much visible strain when he lets the ball go. This is a classic case of a bowling coach ruining a fast bowler by changing one of the things you never change; the runup. Look at previous recordings of Naseem Shah against SL and BD, and you'll see that his runup was much longer.

What a longer runup does is that the pace is significantly greater, but with a greater pace, the impact between the ball and pitch becomes greater giving the ball more lift, which is why we saw him bowl some really good lengths against SL and BD. The problem occurs that when you ask a 17-YEAR OLD to change his runup, THE ONE THING HE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT, you are asking for trouble.

The runup he's used all his life is now changed to something alien. Now, instead of focusing on what is happening on the other end, he's overstepping the line to bowl with more pace, resulting in no-balls. Another disadvantage is the fact that with less pace, batsmen play him differently. This is basic cricket which the likes of Waqar Younis should know, because now Naseem is completely lost. Batsmen can drop the bat and take runs and drive him freely, which is what they couldn't do earlier. Most boundaries when he bowled with the normal runup came on the back foot, now they come from the front foot, and that's a huge difference for a bowler.

I hope that made sense. You never tamper with a runup, and I have my own theory about why Waqar Younis did this.

If you take a trip down memory lane to the England Test where Naseem was being hurdled and spanked by Crawley, his pace in the last session went down to 130kph because he got tired. At the time, there was a lot of pressure on Waqar Younis to develop the youngsters, Shaheen and Naseem, who both disappointed in that series. Waqar might have thought that the runup was unsustainable, and decided to change that instead of bringing the required skillset into Naseem Shah. What went wrong in that session were his lines, he strayed on the pads too much and bowled it short and wide. Nothing else was wrong, he just needed to take the line/length to the off-stump, but there was no need to change the runup. He's 17 after all, it's normal that he would get tired after bowling overs of 140+ to no avail.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on this issue.

 

[Kroll]

All these bowlers are classified as short. Naseem is only 17, so he will grow an inch or 2 for sure. You really think those extra inches are making the difference? Shami has some great defining spells in all those countries you mentioned in recent times.

P.S. In your original post you mentioned 6 feet as minimum. Why are changing goal posts to include 5 feet 9 Bumrah?

Biologically, most boys stop growing by 16/17. But waiting for him to grow taller so he can bowl better at the test level in itself sounds silly.

 

[Slog]

Biologically, most boys stop growing by 16/17. But waiting for him to grow taller so he can bowl better at the test level in itself sounds silly.

So now asides from giving him a free ride to let his talent and potential blossom and realize; we’re also gonna wait for him to essentially grow taller

 

[Slog]

All these bowlers are classified as short. Naseem is only 17, so he will grow an inch or 2 for sure. You really think those extra inches are making the difference? Shami has some great defining spells in all those countries you mentioned in recent times.

P.S. In your original post you mentioned 6 feet as minimum. Why are changing goal posts to include 5 feet 9 Bumrah?

Tbf in that case Bumrah would clearly be the outlier so the initial point still had merit. More often than not height is a crucial element . Ofcourse you can still be terrible if you don’t have some good skills but if there are 2 similarly skilled fast bowlers and one is 4-5 inches taller; almost always the taller bowler will be the more successful one.

Heck Mohammad Irfan made an international career purely because of his height. If he was 10 inches shorter and hence 5’10 he would have been getting phainties after phainties

 

[Hyperion66]

Biologically, most boys stop growing by 16/17. But waiting for him to grow taller so he can bowl better at the test level in itself sounds silly.

Gross biological injustice was done to me, I didn't grow an inch after 14, with 5'11 I was one of the tallest boys in class at 8th and 9th standard. I don't know what happened but the growth just stopped after that.

 

[Slog]

Gross biological injustice was done to me, I didn't grow an inch after 14, with 5'11 I was one of the tallest boys in class at 8th and 9th standard. I don't know what happened but the growth just stopped after that.

Lolol same thing. In grade 8-9 I was significantly taller to the point where I would feel awkward and then never grew whilst others caught up

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

What is with these Sami clones?

I'm not heightest at all, I'm not not that tall myself but there is a specific height requirement for a fast bowler to perform at world class level (SENA pace level not India) especially when they are clocking under 140kph.

Our cricket is bizarre, its either Irfan or Rumman Raes

Shaheen is the only decent pacer in the team.

Waqar just excels at ruining a pace attack doesn't he for love of God how many times Waqar.

 

[Mamoon]

All these bowlers are classified as short. Naseem is only 17, so he will grow an inch or 2 for sure. You really think those extra inches are making the difference? Shami has some great defining spells in all those countries you mentioned in recent times.

P.S. In your original post you mentioned 6 feet as minimum. Why are changing goal posts to include 5 feet 9 Bumrah?

Naseem is not 17. He was 17 around 4-5 years back.

He will not grow taller, and even if he does, he will remain a rubbish bowler.

 

[naseem]

Height is not an issue.....issue is rawness....and some
Poor bowling but he was not helped by his fielders ...many a times ball went past stumps....and edges gone between slips......Saheen n Naseem r the unluckiest bowlers on planet......

 

[Sir-fraz]

Good post lost me when he said naseem has more skill the shaheen. Its clearly evident he doesnt, skill also entails dropping the ball in a certain area 6 times in a row and naseem can not do that.

 

[Slog]

Not a top post by any means. But good post for Pakistani posters who like their egos to be stroked because the players can’t do the job on the field.

Naseem clearly is less skilled than Shaheen and here we have him claiming that Shaheen has a fraction of Naseem’s talent. Unless the talent he is talking about is the ability to consistently not trouble the batsman, [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is wrong. But then again he also said Naseem is Fred Truman reincarnated so he does live on a different planet to the rest of us.

Naseem’s height is a disadvantage but that is not his main problem. Lack of skills is. His drop in pace has been ~5kph per so but even before that he was gun barrel straight.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Boys stop growing at 16/17? I put on an inch and a half at nearly 20 years of age? I thought men grew until 20? Regardless, Naseem is already 20. So l, I doubt hes gonna grow.

 

[naseem]

Bumrah Shami r hardly 5 10....5 11... Amir was 5 10 too...siraj is probably 5 12

 

[moghul]

Naseem is not the first fast bowler to make international debut at this age for Pakistan , there were many before him, including Amir and Aaqib Javed . Wasim and Waqar were also very young. But all of them had skill of pace and swing, Naseem has nothing. He had pace but that has been "waqared" now.

 

[Slog]

Naseem is not the first fast bowler to make international debut at this age for Pakistan , there were many before him, including Amir and Aaqib Javed . Wasim and Waqar were also very young. But all of them had skill of pace and swing, Naseem has nothing. He had pace but that has been "waqared" now.

Using waqars name is a convenience excuse. You could have any other name but Naseem would have remained trash.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I wish you were right.

Bumrah is two inches taller and has done well everywhere.

Shami is one inch taller, and has an atrocious record in England, Australia and New Zealand.

So height matters only in SENA conditions.?

Actually your height theory is flawed.
In England, Southafrica and New Zealand there's no need of tall bowlers, yes in Australian conditions your theory surely holds some weight.

When Lateral movement is available even short bowlers like Bhuvi, philander, boult can work wonders.
On flat Australian pitches u surely need height or pace.

 

[Dingolfy]

I wish you were right.

Bumrah is two inches taller and has done well everywhere.

Shami is one inch taller, and has an atrocious record in England, Australia and New Zealand.

Shami’s poor average in Australia is mostly due to his bowling in 2014 season. He had improved a lot after that and out-bowled taller Australian bowlers in the 2018 series. He took 16 wickets in that series at an average of 26.18 whereas Starc took 13 wickets at an average of 34.53 , Hazlewood took 13@30.61 and Cummins took 14@27.78.

 

[Slog]

Shami’s poor average in Australia is mostly due to his bowling in 2014 season. He had improved a lot after that and out-bowled taller Australian bowlers in the 2018 series. He took 16 wickets in that series at an average of 26.18 whereas Starc took 13 wickets at an average of 34.53 , Hazlewood took 13@30.61 and Cummins took 14@27.78.

Shami was also bowling against much inferior batsmen + being able to feed off the pressure built by Bumrah and co.

 

[Dingolfy]

Shami was also bowling against much inferior batsmen + being able to feed off the pressure built by Bumrah and co.

He was bowling to Australian batsmen at their own home.Everyone is a beast at their home. The same batsmen has scored truckloads of runs after that series. So a mediocre bowler won’t be able to get their wickets for cheap.
And Aussie bowlers weren’t bowling to Tendulkars or Dravids exactly. It was Pujara’s first ever good overseas series and even the likes of Pant scored 150.

 

[Slog]

He was bowling to Australian batsmen at their own home.Everyone is a beast at their home. The same batsmen has scored truckloads of runs after that series. So a mediocre bowler won’t be able to get their wickets for cheap.
And Aussie bowlers weren’t bowling to Tendulkars or Dravids exactly. It was Pujara’s first ever good overseas series and even the likes of Pant scored 150.

Same batsmen have not scored truckload of runs post that series. They only played Sri Lanka home series which they did well in and then Smith and Warner returned for ashes. And even then they didn’t do well for most part. Smith and Labushagne did in ashes who didn’t figure in india series.

 

[Dark Magician]

You guys talk so much about this and that, but have you considered that maybe just maybe his selection is too soon?

 

[Technics 1210]

Height has very little to do with pace/speed of a delivery. It's all about linear momentum, which depends on:

Length of run up.
Speed of run up.
Revolution of bowling arm.
Trajectory after release.
Mass of bowler.
Centre of gravity of bowler.

All height provides is a greater angle of incident (angle at which the ball hits the surface).

This is why a bowler like Mohammed Irfan was not fast; his height to mass ratio meant his centre of gravity was higher, which meant he had to compensate for the loss in momentum by rebalancing his mass while in motion - something which is very very very difficult to do. Any rebalancing/adjustment will result in loss of momentum, thus speed.

 

[TeamPak95]

Naseem Shah needs to do a Hasan Ali and put up performances for the next QeA trophy. It did wonders for Hasan as he is pretty much set to make his comeback and I believe that Naseem has the capabilities of doing this also. I still believe there is a great bowler in him.

 

[sharmaji]

You probably have to be tall to succeed in Australia, and even that is not necessarily true if you have great skills (Steyn, Bumrah are examples). In rest of the world, if you are a good bowler, height doesn't matter much.

Naseem needs to work on the controllables: his pace, line and length, accuracy, variations, stamina to bowl at consistent pace for long spells, smarts, setting up batsmen with field placing etc. Height is not something he can do anything about.

 

[Technics 1210]

PS: Height is actually a disadvantage for fast bowlers, because the higher the point of release, the longer the ball has to travel, requiring more momentum and energy just to maintain speed compared with a lower point of release.

 

[moghul]

PS: Height is actually a disadvantage for fast bowlers, because the higher the point of release, the longer the ball has to travel, requiring more momentum and energy just to maintain speed compared with a lower point of release.

Interesting brand new idea, lets replace Shaheen with Musa.

 

[Suleiman]

PS: Height is actually a disadvantage for fast bowlers, because the higher the point of release, the longer the ball has to travel, requiring more momentum and energy just to maintain speed compared with a lower point of release.

Higher point of release means greater potential energy as well.

So no it’s not a disadvantage, even from a mechanics viewpoint.

 

[Technics 1210]

Interesting brand new idea, lets replace Shaheen with Musa.

There are many factors, I am refering to fundamental trigonometry.

A - Height
B - Length of Wicket
C - Hypotenuse

B is constant, but the greater value of A, results in greater value of C, in other words, proportional.

Meaning if 2 bowlers of different height release the ball at the identical vertical, and pitch the ball at the identical spot, the taller bowler's delivery would have to cover a longer distance (C). Thus the taller bowler would have to apply extra energy to pitch the ball at the same spot at the same time as the shorter bowler to compensate for the difference in length.

 

[Saj]

Too short
Too slow
Talks too much
Too nice
Too young

Whatever next.

Give the lad time, he'll come good. He needs a period away from international cricket, where he can reassess his bowling, work on a few things, mature and then come back.

 

[Slog]

PS: Height is actually a disadvantage for fast bowlers, because the higher the point of release, the longer the ball has to travel, requiring more momentum and energy just to maintain speed compared with a lower point of release.

Lolwut. You are making it sound like a few inches of extra height is adding several meters to the distance ball has to travel

 

[Slog]

Too short
Too slow
Talks too much
Too nice
Too young

Whatever next.

Give the lad time, he'll come good. He needs a period away from international cricket, where he can reassess his bowling, work on a few things, mature and then come back.

Too mediocre

 

[Saj]

Too mediocre

At the moment yes.

But that's not to say that he may in future come back a better bowler.

 

[Technics 1210]

Lolwut. You are making it sound like a few inches of extra height is adding several meters to the distance ball has to travel

I never said that.

 

[Technics 1210]

Higher point of release means greater potential energy as well.

So no it’s not a disadvantage, even from a mechanics viewpoint.

Higher point of release gives a bowler one main advantage, a higher angle of incident when the ball hits the deck.

Curtly Ambrose is 6'8, bowled at an average of around 145K, yet in less than 100 Tests he took over 400 wickets.

The main reason for his success wasn't speed, it was simply the angle of incident given his height.

Angle of incident equals angle of reflection (assuming same surface, no cracks etc). In practise this meant that Ambrose had the ability to make every delivery 'bounce' at a greater angle than any bowler around which effectively meant targetting the batsman's torso. Couple this with greater potential energy at point of release, and voila - every single one of his deliveries was lethal even at 145K. Of course you need skill and accuracy, but this is the main advantage of height, angle of attack (incident).

When fast bowlers talk about rhythm they are actually refering to momentum. I bet Naseem Shah was asked to change his bowling action/run up in some way when promoted to Test level. It's the wrong approach, and right now Naseem is trying to find his rhythm/momentum.

Chris Tremlet and Steven Finn are two examples where their change in bowling action resulted in their careers ending at Test level. On top of this when we see bowlers losing 10k in the space of a few years, we blame fitness and intent. Partially true, but main reason is loss of momentum due to change in bowling action etc.

This obsession with speed has become a joke, which is why I blame Waqar Younis for destroying every bowling talent he's had to coach.

Asking a bowler to change their natural rhythm at the highest level is a recipe for disaster, when really it's just a matter of understanding basic physics then developing skills around it.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Higher point of release gives a bowler one main advantage, a higher angle of incident when the ball hits the deck.

Curtly Ambrose is 6'8, bowled at an average of around 145K, yet in less than 100 Tests he took over 400 wickets.

The main reason for his success wasn't speed, it was simply the angle of incident given his height.

Angle of incident equals angle of reflection (assuming same surface, no cracks etc). In practise this meant that Ambrose had the ability to make every delivery 'bounce' at a greater angle than any bowler around which effectively meant targetting the batsman's torso. Couple this with greater potential energy at point of release, and voila - every single one of his deliveries was lethal even at 145K. Of course you need skill and accuracy, but this is the main advantage of height, angle of attack (incident).

When fast bowlers talk about rhythm they are actually refering to momentum. I bet Naseem Shah was asked to change his bowling action/run up in some way when promoted to Test level. It's the wrong approach, and right now Naseem is trying to find his rhythm/momentum.

Chris Tremlet and Steven Finn are two examples where their change in bowling action resulted in their careers ending at Test level. On top of this when we see bowlers losing 10k in the space of a few years, we blame fitness and intent. Partially true, but main reason is loss of momentum due to change in bowling action etc.

This obsession with speed has become a joke, which is why I blame Waqar Younis for destroying every bowling talent he's had to coach.

Asking a bowler to change their natural rhythm at the highest level is a recipe for disaster, when really it's just a matter of understanding basic physics then developing skills around it.

Thanks for the 10th grade physics lesson but saying "Height is actually a disadvantage for fast bowlers" is completely absurd. If there are two bowlers who are similar in every way except height, the taller one will always be more successful.

 

[b.lesner]

Thanks for the 10th grade physics lesson but saying "Height is actually a disadvantage for fast bowlers" is completely absurd. If there are two bowlers who are similar in every way except height, the taller one will always be more successful.

James Anderson and Dale steyn says hi and also Steve finn says hi

 

[Slog]

James Anderson and Dale steyn says hi and also Steve finn says hi

lol James Anderson is 6’2 isn’t he

 

[marlonbrowndo]

James Anderson and Dale steyn says hi and also Steve finn says hi

What’s your point?

 

[b.lesner]

What’s your point?

Apart from West indies there are no successful bowlers with height, today all successful bowlers are short like James anderson, Dale steyn, mohammad Aamir etc
And look at tall bowlers like Steve finn and Shannon Gabriel etc average bowlers

 

[Slog]

Apart from West indies there are no successful bowlers with height, today all successful bowlers are short like James anderson, Dale steyn, mohammad Aamir etc
And look at tall bowlers like Steve finn and Shannon Gabriel etc average bowlers

Check Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood, Broad heights then. Also Anderson is 6’2. How’s that short?

 

[Technics 1210]

Jimmy is medium fast. McGrath was medium fast. Akram was medium fast. List goes on for 6' + bowlers.

Maybe definition of fast bowling for some fans here is less than 150k

Height is not proportional to speed.

Might explain why some fans here are delusional. Honestly, claiming Naseem cannot be fast because he's short is the most laughable premise I've ever read.

 

[Slog]

Jimmy is medium fast. McGrath was medium fast. Akram was medium fast. List goes on for 6' + bowlers.

Maybe definition of fast bowling for some fans here is less than 150k

Height is not proportional to speed.

Might explain why some fans here are delusional. Honestly, claiming Naseem cannot be fast because he's short is the most laughable premise I've ever read.

Who has said Naseem can’t be fast because he’s short? People are saying he won’t be a success at 135-140kph with that height. Anyways the main problem isn’t even that. The problem is a lack of skillet, discipline etc.

 

[b.lesner]

Check Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood, Broad heights then. Also Anderson is 6’2. How’s that short?

What about Steyn and Aamir

 

[Majid Khan]

He’s definitely short on pace, skill and confidence from what he’s shown so far

 

[Slog]

What about Steyn and Aamir

Obv there will be exceptions. Also comparing Dale Steyn to Steve Finn isn’t a smart comparison. Dale Steyn was infinitely more skilled than Finn who had a relatively mediocre skill level. The fact that he even managed a career he had was due to his pace and height because he didn’t even half a third of the control Steyn has on aspects like swing, seam, line and length.

However if you have 2 similarly skilled bowlers (in terms of discipline, control over swing and seam, line and length) a 6’3 bowler will almost invariably be more dangerous than a 5’10

 

[b.lesner]

Who has said Naseem can’t be fast because he’s short? People are saying he won’t be a success at 135-140kph with that height. Anyways the main problem isn’t even that. The problem is a lack of skillet, discipline etc.

Why was he 145+ before and now this and Abbas was 130-132 now bowling 124 why?

Because Waqar younis makes them do hard training he once had fight with Shoaib Akhtar over irfan he was telling irfan to run on stares but Shoaib told waqar thus isn't his training and every body has different diet amd different training

 

[Slog]

Why was he 145+ before and now this and Abbas was 130-132 now bowling 124 why?

Because Waqar younis makes them do hard training he once had fight with Shoaib Akhtar over irfan he was telling irfan to run on stares but Shoaib told waqar thus isn't his training and every body has different diet amd different training

He was never 145kph+

Even in his first innings in international cricket he was 143kph average. And it has gone down every innings.

One of the main reasons for that is that he had never bowled long spells before that and finds it difficult to sustain stamina and speed.

Though, in any case most bowlers bowl slower in tests compared to ODIs. So the 143kph first innings might just be a function of excitement of debut. Though it doesn’t matter because he got smashed anyway back then too. So not much change in performance.

Did you know that on average he had bowled 12 overs per innings in FC cricket. Had never bowled long spells in his 4-5 FC games and in test cricket he is finding out you have to bowl longer.

 

[Technics 1210]

Who has said Naseem can’t be fast because he’s short? People are saying he won’t be a success at 135-140kph with that height. Anyways the main problem isn’t even that. The problem is a lack of skillet, discipline etc.

Naseem has changed his action/run up at Test level upon the advise of the bowling coach, no?

No doubt has had an effect on his rhythm. Skills and discipline are built upon rhythm for a bowler.

 

[b.lesner]

He was never 145kph+

Even in his first innings in international cricket he was 143kph average. And it has gone down every innings.

One of the main reasons for that is that he had never bowled long spells before that and finds it difficult to sustain stamina and speed.

Though, in any case most bowlers bowl slower in tests compared to ODIs. So the 143kph first innings might just be a function of excitement of debut. Though it doesn’t matter because he got smashed anyway back then too. So not much change in performance.

Did you know that on average he had bowled 12 overs per innings in FC cricket. Had never bowled long spells in his 4-5 FC games and in test cricket he is finding out you have to bowl longer.

I disagree check his action before and after injury he isn't using his back. He isn't bending his back.


He should stick to ODIs untill he gets his back strength back.

 

[Napa]

Higher point of release gives a bowler one main advantage, a higher angle of incident when the ball hits the deck.

Curtly Ambrose is 6'8, bowled at an average of around 145K, yet in less than 100 Tests he took over 400 wickets.

The main reason for his success wasn't speed, it was simply the angle of incident given his height.

Higher point of release means greater potential energy as well.

So no it’s not a disadvantage, even from a mechanics viewpoint.

Thanks for the 10th grade physics lesson but saying "Height is actually a disadvantage for fast bowlers" is completely absurd. If there are two bowlers who are similar in every way except height, the taller one will always be more successful.

If longer arms didn't result in an ability to bowl faster, I don't think these contraptions that enable the dog owner to throw the ball over longer distances would have sold.

 

[Napa]

The velocity of the ball at the point of release is the sum of two velocities. The velocity of the shoulder + the velocity of the hand with respect to the shoulder.

The velocity of the shoulder is approximately equal to the velocity of the body.

For the same angular speed, the velocity of the hand is proportional to the length of the arm from the shoulder to the palm. So it follows that for the same angular speed, a bowler with longer arms will bowl faster. That is the principle behind the toy to enable dog owners to throw the ball longer distances.

 

[Napa]

The velocity of the ball at the point of release is the sum of two velocities. The velocity of the shoulder + the velocity of the hand with respect to the shoulder.

The velocity of the shoulder is approximately equal to the velocity of the body.

For the same angular speed, the velocity of the hand is proportional to the length of the arm from the shoulder to the palm. So it follows that for the same angular speed, a bowler with longer arms will bowl faster. That is the principle behind the toy to enable dog owners to throw the ball longer distances.

*velocity of the hand with respect to the shoulder is proportional to the length of the arm from the shoulder to the palm

 

[Dingolfy]

Same batsmen have not scored truckload of runs post that series. They only played Sri Lanka home series which they did well in and then Smith and Warner returned for ashes. And even then they didn’t do well for most part. Smith and Labushagne did in ashes who didn’t figure in india series.

Travis Head played against NewZeland after the Indian series and averaged 42.6 with a fifty and a century. Usman Kwaja and Shaun Marsh scored centuries and averaged 47.57and 74.16 against the visiting English bowlers ( who were taller than Shami) in 2017-2018 season.Usman’s test Average in Australia is 52.97 and he has 6 centuries in Australia out of his total 8. Shaun averages 40.33 in Australia with 3 centuries. So they weren’t exactly mediocre in Australia.
Its like a SENA spinner out bowling an Indian spinner in India. Even Jayant Yadav becomes a beast in India. T20 hacks like Iyer murdered Lyon in a practice match. Because its their home ,they know the conditions and the type of bowling is their bread and butter. Same applies for Australian batsmen.

 

[guna]

Naseem shah lacks discipline. He cannot bowl 4 balls at the same spot. He invariably drifts into pads or bowls short and wide. Easy pickings for top class batsmen.

 

[Finisher]

Naseem Shah next to Imad Wasim who is 6"2

Has Naseem Shah grown a few inches, looks close to 6ft.

 

[Maliq_Mudasir]

View attachment 112215

Naseem Shah next to Imad Wasim who is 6"2

Has Naseem Shah grown a few inches, looks close to 6ft.

But according to age experts on Pp, he was already 20-22 when he debuted.So no chance of growing.

 

[pratiktc]

Always love reading these threads for Junaids weird alternate reality posts where he makes up his own candyland rules and cherrypicks data to support his

If Aus govt reads this thread soon they may stop processing visit visa for <6ft fast bowlers.

 

[Junaids]

Always love reading these threads for Junaids weird alternate reality posts where he makes up his own candyland rules and cherrypicks data to support his

If Aus govt reads this thread soon they may stop processing visit visa for <6ft fast bowlers.

Haven’t I been right on the money?

Naseem has a beautiful action, but his lack of height makes him expensive.

 

[Bewal Express]

Haven’t I been right on the money?

Naseem has a beautiful action, but his lack of height makes him expensive.

Shorter bowlers have less margin for error. Batsman have that extra milli sec to pick up the length and obviously they don't get as much bounce to take them out of their confidence zone