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Nathan Lyon vs Ravichandran Ashwin in Tests - The better off-spinner?

Perception problem.

He's extremely ill treated.

People already think Kuldeep is a better option than Jaddu.

I think we were one of the few who predicted Kuldeep may be taken apart in Lord's.

U can see how even the top order batsman are uncomfortable when playing lyon. He is relentless and keeps it very simple but ashwin does not bowl a single type of delivery for even one over

Consistency and lack of revs are ashwins biggest problems
 
Lyon has actually been really good everywhere unlike Ashwin. Being the sole spinner in a bowling lineup isn't easy, especially when travelling to Asia. Ashwin's decline might have already begun. I won't be surprised if he retires within 3 years even.

3 yrs? If he plays even one yr with his form it will be disaster for india
 
If we go back a few years, I would say Ashwin was EASILY the better of the two but the improvement from Lyon, his ability to control his line and length, to bowl at the correct pace consistently is remarkable. He is the best off spinner on the planet and has often done it in conditions which are not friendly to turn.

Good on him.
 
3 yrs? If he plays even one yr with his form it will be disaster for india

Well I think he will be physically imcapable of playing cricket in 3 years. His waist pain prevents him from bowling long spells in tests, and a spinner who can't bowl long spells in tests are of no use, especially in SENA where spinners bowl intermittently to give pacers rest.
 
Well I think he will be physically imcapable of playing cricket in 3 years. His waist pain prevents him from bowling long spells in tests, and a spinner who can't bowl long spells in tests are of no use, especially in SENA where spinners bowl intermittently to give pacers rest.

Lol did he not just bowl 40 overs in Adelaide? He is injured yes but saying that he does not have fitness to bowl long spells is laughable.
 
Jadeja has been better than Ashwin recently with both bat and ball.Not sure why he's been ignored

Yup, it was idiotic from Kohli to go with Yadav who's bowling 10ks slower and he would've seen that in the nets. The ball is seaming which means it will spin.
 
I think Lyon didn't get noticed much but his record is quite stellar - 330+ wickets in 83 matches for a spinner who plays majority of his cricket in fast bowling friendly conditions, this is quite an achievement. Considering he's 31, he has a good shot at taking 500+ wickets. Who would have thought that he would get there.

Ashwin is completely ineffective outside Asia, yet the confidence with which he says that he bowled well in England or Australia shows how delusional he is.
 
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Lyon has been bowling pretty awesome. Knowing the fact that he is the sole spinner in Aus lineup he is getting better and better and taking responsibility on key occasions.
 
Joe Root has stated that the veteran Indian off-spinner R Ashwin is a constant threat who rarely believes in the concept of wearing the opposition down. He mentioned this during an interview with English sports media:

"Ashwin is always trying to find ways of getting you out rather than trying to wear you down, over long periods of time."

"He uses creases differently from traditional off-spinners. He uses over-spin, side-spin, can get really tight to the stumps, can go wider and he has got the carrom ball, you know, a lot of different tricks."

"So, you will have to be really wary of different threats that he poses and make sure that you have very good skill sets to counter (him) and be on top of him."

"Ashwin is making sure that you don't play the previous ball. He is very good at trying to drag you across the crease and get your head to one side of it and beat both edges quite frequently."

"There are different things to contend with because of his seam position and how cleverly he can move around the shiny side that has got some extra skid."

"So, you have to make sure that you are in position a little bit quicker. He can also drift the ball away and bring the slip fielder into play."

Root also offered a comparison between Ashwin and Nathan Lyon:

"With Lyon it is all about, I think, especially in the first half of the Test match, to get over the top of the ball, get the bowl bounce, knee roll high, in between and try to bring short leg and leg slip into the game as much as he can."

"Then just slowly, get slower with his pace and drift wider into that. There are those footmarks, you know, Mitchell Starc has so kindly done for him for such a long period of time."
 
Nathan Lyon is a better off spinner than Ravichandran Ashwin. Unlike Ravi Ashwin who has had the luxury of bowling on rank turners at home. Lyon never had that luxury in Australia.Ashwin is a bench warmer overseas majority of the time which shows lack of trust among his captains.
 
Nathan Lyon is a better off spinner than Ravichandran Ashwin. Unlike Ravi Ashwin who has had the luxury of bowling on rank turners at home. Lyon never had that luxury in Australia.Ashwin is a bench warmer overseas majority of the time which shows lack of trust among his captains.
Lyon in Asia : Avg 30.81
Lyon in Aus : Avg 30.88

That's Lyon's performance no matter if it's in Asia or in Aus. He was outbowled by Indian spinners at his home in the last two series. Lyon is a very good spinner but not really that great. It's a myth that his record is not that great due to playing in Aus.
 
Lyon in Asia : Avg 30.81
Lyon in Aus : Avg 30.88

That's Lyon's performance no matter if it's in Asia or in Aus. He was outbowled by Indian spinners at his home in the last two series. Lyon is a very good spinner but not really that great. It's a myth that his record is not that great due to playing in Aus.
That 30+ average discounts him from being an all time great. He is good. That's it. Ashwin over him if I had to pick one. Purely on bowling or with the added batting ability.
 
I think Lyon would have an upper hand in this Border-Gavaskar series

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Lyon has had the luxury of no competition and representing Australia every all these years in test cricket. It’s the only reason his wickets count is similar to Ashwin despite an inferior average and SR. If Ashwin was played everywhere like Lyon he would have having a 100 more wickets.

Even on the so called spinning tracks of Bharat, Ashwin has to share them with the likes of Jadeja, Axar, Sundar etc.

Ashwin’s a much better spinner and only a biased Pakistani would ever put Lyon above Ashwin. Nowhere in the world would people do that because the record is quite clearly in Ashwin’s favour. It’s actually an outrageous record. Ashwin beats Murali and Warne at certain metrics.
 
Nathan Lyon during an interview with local sports media outlet:

"Ash is an incredible bowler."

"I've gone head-to-head with him for basically my whole career, so I've learned a lot from Ash. He's an incredibly smart bowler, and he's able to learn and adapt very quickly, and I think the best bowlers in the world are able to do that."

"He's taught me a lot," Lyon admitted. "I'm a big believer that the players you compete against are your best coaches. I've watched a lot of his footage heading over to India, the way he goes about it here in Australia, and see if I can pick up anything."

"India's got the wood over us in the past few series, but if you're looking at the World Test Championship (final) in England, we were able to beat them there, and I know that should give us a bit of confidence heading into this summer."

"I feel like we're on the journey to becoming a great team. We're not there yet, there's a bit of work to do, but we have the opportunity to do something pretty special this summer."
 
Lyon easily. Ashwin is a useless
 
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Lyon without a doubt.

Despite playing so many games in Australia, Lyon still has over 500 Test wickets.

I think Lyon is one of the all-time greats.
 
Lyon without a doubt.

Despite playing so many games in Australia, Lyon still has over 500 Test wickets.

I think Lyon is one of the all-time greats.
Lyon vs ashwin is like comparing an actual spinner to a circus clown. Lyon stomps. Ashwin outside India is useless
 
Ashwin outbowled the lioness from Australia last 2 tours down under though.

Is the lioness still better?
Yes, Ashwin is rubbish.

Ashwin, Laxman and Jadeja are the players I can't stand.

You guys hate kohli and rohit and other players. Their overrated but they ain't bad. Rohit is a htb, Kohli is still an atg in all formats but in tests he is not.

Ashwin, Laxman and Jadeja are frauds. Jadeja maybe not as he has gems under his belt, but laxman and ashwin 100%
 
Yes he is ? No one said no lol.
Is he better than ashwin? I am not sure.

His averages in SA is poor
Poor in u.a.e
Poor in lanka. Average you could say
And in pakistan

Lyon is better than Ashwin.

You don't cherry pick stats like this. You look at all records.

BTW, Ashwin has poor averages in Australia and South Africa too. South Africa isn't exactly friendly toward spinners.
 
Lyon is better than Ashwin.

You don't cherry pick stats like this. You look at all records.

BTW, Ashwin has poor averages in Australia and South Africa too. South Africa isn't exactly friendly toward spinners.
Ashwin outbowled and made Lyon cry last 2 tours though. So no he dint bowl better than ash. Sorry.

Cherry pick?

Bowling like trash in 4 countries is cherry picking? That's news to me

Ashwin is better tbh in spin friendly conditions and on flatter bouncy wickets.

On seaming tracks Lyon is better.
 
Ashwin outbowled and made Lyon cry last 2 tours though. So no he dint bowl better than ash. Sorry.

Cherry pick?

Bowling like trash in 4 countries is cherry picking? That's news to me

Ashwin is better tbh in spin friendly conditions and on flatter bouncy wickets.

On seaming tracks Lyon is better.

2 tours don't define a player's legacy. You have to look at overall records.

When all factors are considered, Lyon did much better in his career. He has close to 550 Test wickets despite playing most games in Australia (where spinners don't normally have great times).

If Ashwin was an Indian spinner, he might have had 800 Test wickets by now.
 
2 tours don't define a player's legacy. You have to look at overall records.

When all factors are considered, Lyon did much better in his career. He has close to 550 Test wickets despite playing most games in Australia (where spinners don't normally have great times).

If Ashwin was an Indian spinner, he might have had 800 Test wickets by now.

Sorry. I meant Lyon. Typo.
 
Ashwin averages 24 with bowl while Lyon averages 30.

Ashwin is a better bowler. Include his batting and he is a bonafide ATG cricketer.
 
2 tours don't define a player's legacy. You have to look at overall records.

When all factors are considered, Lyon did much better in his career. He has close to 550 Test wickets despite playing most games in Australia (where spinners don't normally have great times).

If Ashwin was an Indian spinner, he might have had 800 Test wickets by now.
Ashwin is an Indian spinner though lel.

Lyon hasn't done great as I already showed his record in Asia. So no I disagree with that notion.

He has only performed better in SA and nz. Everywhere else ash has dominated or just about equal to him.
 
Ashwin averages 24 with bowl while Lyon averages 30.

Ashwin is a better bowler. Include his batting and he is a bonafide ATG cricketer.
I mean it's clear cut.

Both have sucked bad in spicy seaming bouncy tracks of SA. Fast bowlers paradise.

Then in nz is where Lyon outbowled him.

England more or less same as ash.

In Australia ashwin outbowled him overall.

In Asia ashwin defecates on him

Ans in West indies ash has done well if not better than Lyon iirc.

So no brainer here.
 
Between the two modern-day greats, who will end up with more wickets by the end of the Border-Gavaskar Trophy?

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Lyon averages 32 in Srilanka. Ashwin dismissed Sangakkara probably one of the best player of spin 4 times in a row. Lyon is a hardworker. Since Australia doesn't have any options they keep playing him. It helps him feel secure. Because India has far too many one dimensional player India had to sit Ashwin out 50% of the matches. Throw in his clutch batting skills he is a different beast. Ashwin is also still the highest wicket taker for India in world T20 history. Also one of the most familiar bowler thanks to his IPL participation for 14 years. Lyon has just one format to focus on without ever getting picked by anY IPL team. Lyon is not even on the same planet as Ashwin overall. In terms of average Ash is 7 points above Lyon. 30 average in DRS era is very poor
 
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