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New Ajit Agarkar generation - Musa Khan, Faheem Ashraf, Mohammad Hasnain, Naseem Shah, Amad Butt

iniqbal223

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I have been tracking the performances of these young fast bowlers + pseudo fast bowlers, and what I saw these bowlers are tonked by any batsmen. Always see them bowling half volleys, short pitche deliveries. Somehow they take wickets when the batsmen is making a mistake, or mishit. But if you ask me, they all ( except Naseem shah in 1/2 instances) leak runs and give memories of Indian bowling great Ajit Agarkar.

P.S : After playing so many games, I will not say they are inexperienced. They have been given lots of opportunities by management and PCB. I have not seen their peers getting hammered so much any where
 
Naseem Shah? Did you really mean to say the same guy who took a fifer in his 2nd test and hatrick in 3rd test bowls 145kph + as a teenager is next generation Agarkar? Isnt it bit over the top comparison? Yes you have said except but why even mention his name then? :virat

Musa, Hasnain have struggled with lengths but they both have have very less experience of FC rather Hasnain has only played two matches. That is the basic for development.

If Musa and Hasnain continue to be the same till 24 than we can say they havent developed but at the moment its too early to make such threads.
 
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🤦*♂️🤦*♂️🤦*♂️. Once you mentioned ajit agarkar you killed your own thread. You comparing these kids to a medium pacer. This is T20 even the great bowlers get phanti, dont take T20 performances so seriously. Chill and Enjoy 4 and 6s.
 
Naseem shah in this list? LMAOOOO!

Musa Khan is absolute garbage i agree

I think Hasnain will come good.
 
This is beyond hasty. Hasnain has shown bright sparks, he needs dedicated coaching on his lengths, his seam position and overs under his belt in Domestic cricket. A T20 competition with roads for pitches, bullet outfield and mini boundaries shouldn't be the conclusive evidence of a fast bowler's potential.

I think within this forum we have this bad habit of just seeing what a player is, and his limitations, rather than what he can become...
 
Correct.

Maybe not Naseem Shah though. He has good control.

Yes, height is lacking and that can be a factor later on, but let's see. Good prospect for now.
 
Need to play a bit in first class cricket.
 
Have you seen how short the boundaries are?

Geez is anyone spared from baseless criticism here?
 
Hasnain seems to confuse me, the speed gun tells us he is 92mph, but the batsman treat him like an 82mph bowler. He just doesn't look quick to me.
 
Hasnain seems to confuse me, the speed gun tells us he is 92mph, but the batsman treat him like an 82mph bowler. He just doesn't look quick to me.

Pace alone cant trouble modern day batsmen, accuracy and some lateral movement is required.
 
Naseem Shah has potential but the rest are average. Faheem Ashtafs game has got worse and he won’t play for Pakistan again. Husnain should never have been picked for the ODI World Cup and should be excluded fro the T20 World Cup. The rest are mediocre trundlers.
 
Naseem,Akif and ofcourse Shaheen all 3 have great potential.Hasnain has the tools but is still very raw I think couple of FC seasons and he will be in the reckoning.
 
agarkar was actually a very good odi bowler rofl. Lol at the disrespect. None of these boys barring naseem is quality. Rest are all dud cannon fodders.
 
Hasnain and Naseem will break a lot of hearts.

Hasnain is basically Sami 2.0, and Naseem is good but not as good as he and his fans think.

Only Shaheen is the real deal.
 
Agarkar started off as a beast in ODI, IIRC he was fastest to 50 wickets or something. Had beautiful swing and pretty good pace, eventually he became as other Indian fast bowlers of his time.

Depends on which version of Agarkar these guys will become.
 
T20's are not suitable for these kind of bowlers because

1. The ball rarely gets old
2. Most of the matches are day-night affairs and dew plays a substantial role
3. The boundaries are really short
4. Batsman rarely take a backward step and swing hard so even edges fly for sixes
5. Pace on the ball means that the ball travels off the bat faster

You cannot judge a bowler solely on T20. Canny bowlers like Sohail Tanvir continue to find gigs all over the world and end up doing pretty good in those gigs.

That said, Agarkar was a very good LOI bowler and has also helped his team win a test match in Australia. Some of the names above should be happy to be mentioned in the same sentence as him.
 
tallk about being naive and clueless about the game

1) Faheem and Ammad are to be taken as all-rounders...they arent tht good allrounders but bowling wise they wont get into the team....

2) Musa and Hussnain, well both have pace, which is something you cannot add... control and swing can be injected so its upto them to see how they improve

3) Naseem Shah has more control and swing than many bowlers around ... so if u can name him in the same sentence as agarkar, "lol" on u
 
Point of this thread is :

The way they are getting hammered is unbelievable. Again, I said except for 1/2 good matches or sessions, I am not seeing any strategy , no pace change, no change in length, hardly any Yorkers from these bowlers. Just half trackers, short pitch deliveries, and only when batsmen are making mistakes they are getting wickets. Accepted, they are young, but they have played enough games in T20s to have their own plans ..
 
So a bowler all of 17 years and who took a test hattrick less than a month ago is the new Ajit Agarkar who I think doesn't even have a 5 wicket haul in his entire career. Great logic!
 
And if you look at the stats above, most of the times these players have not even completed 3 overs per match and gone for more than 10 economy per over..
 
crazy knowledge, he won a test match in Australia in 2003 . He was far better batsmen than some of our AR like Hafeez/Malik.
Had a century in lords in 2002..
 
not sure why even agarkar is used as a comparison. He has won games for india and done well especially in odis.
To answer your question, give them time to understand line and lengths to bowl to good international players to be a success
 
Hasnain seems to confuse me, the speed gun tells us he is 92mph, but the batsman treat him like an 82mph bowler. He just doesn't look quick to me.

he doesnt move the ball..I remember watching some of our fast bowlers from the past and one thing they pretty much all learnt was how to mvoe the ball either out swing or inswing..and then some reverse..he doesnt do any of it..its all slow offcutter or straight up and down..the use of the slower ball is pathetic..

I cant see him succeeding if he keeps doing the same up and down bakwaas..

Naseem is the only one that looks like he has something about him..but I wouldnt play him in t20's..maybe some ODI's and definatley test matches..

Our best bowler is afridi by a country mile..we should build our pace attack around him. musa is bakwaas, husnain is just sami v2.0, these guys need proper experience..cant see any other real prospects on the horizon..Ilyas looked rubbish too, irshad another raw player but i see something about him although not int class..
 
I have been tracking the performances of these young fast bowlers + pseudo fast bowlers, and what I saw these bowlers are tonked by any batsmen. Always see them bowling half volleys, short pitche deliveries. Somehow they take wickets when the batsmen is making a mistake, or mishit. But if you ask me, they all ( except Naseem shah in 1/2 instances) leak runs and give memories of Indian bowling great Ajit Agarkar.

P.S : After playing so many games, I will not say they are inexperienced. They have been given lots of opportunities by management and PCB. I have not seen their peers getting hammered so much any where

I take it the reason why you mention musa and Husnain is because you expect that with their pace they should be fantastic bowlers and have amazing stats yet they bowl dross which gets taken apart by batsmen. Is that the gist of it?

In t20’s Pace, even express pace has never had as much utility as clever changes of pace even medium pace or slow bowling (spin ). Quite simply If express pace was golden then the likes of Shaun tait, Nantie Hayward and even Shohaib would have had fabulous t20 careers but they floundered. Surprisingly one of the best t20 bowlers was Umar Gul who with clever changes of pace and strong lower order hitting was ideally suited to this type of cricket. Ajit agarkar would have been a fine t20 player. The mistakes you see batsmen make are almost always due to clever changes of pace.

Naseem whom you’ve already excused is better as a test specialist. But you have to bear in mind the huge differences in requirements of tests and t20’s. The bowlers you mention only need to develop a little more to be world class t20 bowlers ie work on varieties like the wide of off stump Yorker that experts like Chris Jordan can bowl at will. This comes with a lot of practice and patience. You can’t just write people off after 1 or 2 seasons.
 
he doesnt move the ball..I remember watching some of our fast bowlers from the past and one thing they pretty much all learnt was how to mvoe the ball either out swing or inswing..and then some reverse..he doesnt do any of it..its all slow offcutter or straight up and down..the use of the slower ball is pathetic..

I cant see him succeeding if he keeps doing the same up and down bakwaas..

Naseem is the only one that looks like he has something about him..but I wouldnt play him in t20's..maybe some ODI's and definatley test matches..

Our best bowler is afridi by a country mile..we should build our pace attack around him. musa is bakwaas, husnain is just sami v2.0, these guys need proper experience..cant see any other real prospects on the horizon..Ilyas looked rubbish too, irshad another raw player but i see something about him although not int class..

I agree that he doesnt, and i said on the England tour last year that his future will depend on it. But for me the most worrying aspect is how much time people have to play him and as someone pointed the 2 things are linked but still 90mph is 90mph and batsman should be hurried and he doesnt hurry anyone.
 
A lot of overreaction in this thread.

Guys neither is Naseem Shah or Musa Khan garbage. They are only getting thrashed in T20s on belters. Most bowlers do.

Faheem Ashraf has declined as a bowler and now on the verge of being kicked out of his franchise.

I know we Pakistanis dont really rate Agarkar. The thing we are forgetting is that in those days we used to have a legendary top 4-5 batsmen.

I bet if Agarkar was playing today, he would have toiled with our batsmen. He was a decent seamer.
 
Agarkar was as good a bowler as Mohammed Shami, and would easily hold his own in today's T20 era.

That being said, Musa Khan is absolute garbage.
 
All of these guys won't be superstars. But the hope is 1 or 2 develop into world class bowlers.
 
When Naseem was bowling in QAE trophy and outperforming the legendary domestic bowlers and making some legendary domestic batsmen school cricketers I didnt see many optimistic threads. Then he took a fifer in his 2nd test and hatrick in his third, we again didnt see many over the top optimistic threads.

Guy bowls poorly in one or T20 matches on flat wicket where Steyn, Amir etc also go for runs the river of pessimism starts flowing...
 
Please don’t compare any bowler with Agarkar - He was a one off, his brand of pace bowling did a lot for entertainment. Even in the 90s era before the advent of T20 when he came onto bowl, it made ODIs feel like T20s and actually test matches felt like ODIs as scoring rates increased rapidly :)

Only Abhey Kuruvilla , a fellow opening pace bowler from India had the same kind of dynamic effect of all the pacers I remember from the 90s.
 
Naseem Shah is still young and needs much needed time to develop, but looks very promising and so does Hasnain. Haris Rauf, Amad Butt, and Faheem Ashraf look mediocre to say the least.
 
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Musa has always bowled decently - results so far may not show that. Been impressed with him since I saw him bowl alongside Shaheen in the under 19 worldcup. Naseem is already on the way to world class as long as he can stay fit. Husnain has good pace just need to learn his trade more. All three need quite a bit of time and games to improve their skills.
 
Musa is garbage and will stay garbage only way I could see him at international level is if he becomes a really good almost consistent pinch hitter
 
Naseem is a massively overrated bowler in this thread. His start has been good considering his age but I really don't see him becoming a great bowler. I dont think he will reach at Mohammad Shami's level. Shami will end up with 325+ test wickets @27 and end up a level below ATGs- at the same level as Gillispie, Broad and Johnson.

Rest all have a long way to go. Shaheen looks a solid prospect though.
 
I have been tracking the performances of these young fast bowlers + pseudo fast bowlers, and what I saw these bowlers are tonked by any batsmen. Always see them bowling half volleys, short pitche deliveries. Somehow they take wickets when the batsmen is making a mistake, or mishit. But if you ask me, they all ( except Naseem shah in 1/2 instances) leak runs and give memories of Indian bowling great Ajit Agarkar.

P.S : After playing so many games, I will not say they are inexperienced. They have been given lots of opportunities by management and PCB. I have not seen their peers getting hammered so much any where

In T20 even the most experienced bowlers go for runs.The margin of error is very small.I believe young bowlers and batsmen should play a couple of first class season,sort out their flaws and then play in T20.It is wrong to throw these youngster stright to T20.
 
Naseem is a massively overrated bowler in this thread. His start has been good considering his age but I really don't see him becoming a great bowler. I dont think he will reach at Mohammad Shami's level. Shami will end up with 325+ test wickets @27 and end up a level below ATGs- at the same level as Gillispie, Broad and Johnson.

Rest all have a long way to go. Shaheen looks a solid prospect though.
Only reason I see Naseem not being good enough is if he gets injured he is pretty good what makes you think he is not good enough?
I only care about test cricket or a lil bit of Odis
 
Naseem is a massively overrated bowler in this thread. His start has been good considering his age but I really don't see him becoming a great bowler. I dont think he will reach at Mohammad Shami's level. Shami will end up with 325+ test wickets @27 and end up a level below ATGs- at the same level as Gillispie, Broad and Johnson.

Rest all have a long way to go. Shaheen looks a solid prospect though.

What are the things you see when you predict someone will become a great bowler?

Shami who officially is 29 and unofficially at least few years older than this, you think he will take 150 more test wickets? I have serious doubts.
 
I agree that he doesnt, and i said on the England tour last year that his future will depend on it. But for me the most worrying aspect is how much time people have to play him and as someone pointed the 2 things are linked but still 90mph is 90mph and batsman should be hurried and he doesnt hurry anyone.

thats also a length issue..if he bowls the wrong length it gives the batter time to position himself. If the length is better he can cause major problems..but he needs to mvoe the ball..if he learns to move the ball he can be devastating. But he doesnt..its up down slow ball cutter, players just get used to it and unleash themselves on him..
 
Only reason I see Naseem not being good enough is if he gets injured he is pretty good what makes you think he is not good enough?
I only care about test cricket or a lil bit of Odis

I just feel he might go the Hasan Ali way. He doesn't have the height,looks more injury prone and considering how in past 10 years, Pakistan's fast bowlers have faded away after great starts and huge hype, I am really doubtful about him being able to achieve the greatness in the current Pakistan setup.

His development seems to be far behind what it is for Shaheen who is tall, fast and has the required weapon in his arsenal to succeed. There is a reason I have been saying from so long for Shaheen that he has all the potential to be a great great bowler. I just don't get that vibe from Naseem. Maybe let's wait for him to tour England and New Zealand.
 
What are the things you see when you predict someone will become a great bowler?

Shami who officially is 29 and unofficially at least few years older than this, you think he will take 150 more test wickets? I have serious doubts.

Shami has 180 test wickets already. Indian team is managing his workload well in last 1.5-2 years. He is 29 and can play 5-6 years more, play around 45-50 tests and take 150 test wickets more. He will be past after 2013 WC and will carry himself for a couple of years more before retiring.
 
I just feel he might go the Hasan Ali way. He doesn't have the height,looks more injury prone and considering how in past 10 years, Pakistan's fast bowlers have faded away after great starts and huge hype, I am really doubtful about him being able to achieve the greatness in the current Pakistan setup.

His development seems to be far behind what it is for Shaheen who is tall, fast and has the required weapon in his arsenal to succeed. There is a reason I have been saying from so long for Shaheen that he has all the potential to be a great great bowler. I just don't get that vibe from Naseem. Maybe let's wait for him to tour England and New Zealand.
Naseem is 510 as tall as bumrah and taller than shami
 
Haris Rauf is an ordinary bowler, Musa needs sometime along with Aqif.

Not sure why people are soo much negative about Hasnain he took number of wickets before, and he is perform well. But Naseem Shah is ahead among them.
 
who is faster on average: Hasnain or Naseem? that bowler will succeed more provided he move the ball
 
Naseem is a massively overrated bowler in this thread. His start has been good considering his age but I really don't see him becoming a great bowler. I dont think he will reach at Mohammad Shami's level. Shami will end up with 325+ test wickets @27 and end up a level below ATGs- at the same level as Gillispie, Broad and Johnson.

Rest all have a long way to go. Shaheen looks a solid prospect though.
Naseem might be over rated, but he has all the tools to succeed. He is quicker on average than all Indian pacers, and can seam the ball. Will be a handful in England and New Zealand, IF he hits the right lengths.

How tall are Shami and Bumrah?
 
who is faster on average: Hasnain or Naseem? that bowler will succeed more provided he move the ball

So if husnain bowls on average faster but naseem moves the ball more who will succeed

Naseem moves the bowl more
Husnain proberly quicker on average
 
Now when I started this post, people were like going ga-ga over me saying how come I can compare these future superstars with Agarkar (lol). When I made that comparison , I had below assumptions :

1. Agarkar in his life time was a better AR than a fast bowler, which India never realized. He bring balance to the side and was always good with consistent quick fire 20-30-40 runs lower down the order along with some rare batting gem innings like scoring century at lords in 2002 series against Caddick, Gough, Giles, and all..

2. Some of the replies were like, you can not compare with him. He did not even had a fifer..(lol) At least with his fitness he was able to play 190 ODI's with 288 ODI wickets. And he took those wickets against the likes of Inzi, Kallis, mighty Australians, etc. He won a test match in Australia single handedly in 2003 with his spell of 6 wickets in second innings against Steve Waugh's team..

Realistically, it would be surprising to see if any of these 5 bowlers I mentioned would be able to do so..with fitness, consistency, variations, and handling by PCB. I hope they might be different case. But the way Pak team has gone, it feels talent comes, there is a hype, then talent fades away.. I also have a post about LIFECYCLE of Pakistan cricketers, and it holds true for 95% of cases.

2. Agarkar was a wicket taker, but most of the time he had this tendency of leaking boundaries. Now what we are seeing problems with these young bowlers was with him as well.. Bad habit of bowling loose deliveries after taking wickets, he also did not have Yorker to use

In my opinion, every one is ready for T20, the way we grew up playing.. Its the soft battleground where you have to maximize 4 overs and it does not grinds you unlike Tests ( where if you are an ordinary bowler you will be ripped apart). After watching every single deliveries by these bowlers in PSL + elsewhere, I see shades of Agarkar in them..
 
Hasnain and Naseem will break a lot of hearts.

Hasnain is basically Sami 2.0, and Naseem is good but not as good as he and his fans think.

Only Shaheen is the real deal.
Yes Doc. Husnain is not even having the run up and body of a fast bowler. For me he will remain like that . Very very low chances to improve his length and control with such action amd forget about swing with garbage seam position. Naseem can be better. Musa I am not ecpecting much. Aakid Javed has more potential than them.I will Try to develop Arshad Iqbal for test cricket who has everything except fitness.
 
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Now when I started this post, people were like going ga-ga over me saying how come I can compare these future superstars with Agarkar (lol). When I made that comparison , I had below assumptions :

1. Agarkar in his life time was a better AR than a fast bowler, which India never realized. He bring balance to the side and was always good with consistent quick fire 20-30-40 runs lower down the order along with some rare batting gem innings like scoring century at lords in 2002 series against Caddick, Gough, Giles, and all..

2. Some of the replies were like, you can not compare with him. He did not even had a fifer..(lol) At least with his fitness he was able to play 190 ODI's with 288 ODI wickets. And he took those wickets against the likes of Inzi, Kallis, mighty Australians, etc. He won a test match in Australia single handedly in 2003 with his spell of 6 wickets in second innings against Steve Waugh's team..

Realistically, it would be surprising to see if any of these 5 bowlers I mentioned would be able to do so..with fitness, consistency, variations, and handling by PCB. I hope they might be different case. But the way Pak team has gone, it feels talent comes, there is a hype, then talent fades away.. I also have a post about LIFECYCLE of Pakistan cricketers, and it holds true for 95% of cases.

2. Agarkar was a wicket taker, but most of the time he had this tendency of leaking boundaries. Now what we are seeing problems with these young bowlers was with him as well.. Bad habit of bowling loose deliveries after taking wickets, he also did not have Yorker to use

In my opinion, every one is ready for T20, the way we grew up playing.. Its the soft battleground where you have to maximize 4 overs and it does not grinds you unlike Tests ( where if you are an ordinary bowler you will be ripped apart). After watching every single deliveries by these bowlers in PSL + elsewhere, I see shades of Agarkar in them..

Even in his peak Agarkar used to leak boundaries and using him as an example to predict future of bowlers who are yet to play handful of FC matches and are in their teenage or entering 20s.

I dont have problem with youngsters struggling with their lines and lengths, problem comes in when even after quite a few years into their domestic careers let alone international careers they still struggle with lines and lengths as Agarkar did.

Predicting a 19 year old raw pacer struggling with his lines and lengths to be next Agarkar than you can apply this theory to every teenager pacer as most of them go for boundaries in T20s.

You can see T20I economy of even Kagiso Rabada who is now 25 a top bowler and has been in international cricket for almost 5 years now, its is 8.62, Lungi Ngidi's is 8.65. So why do they concede boundaries at such a high rate when they are much more experienced than the 3 young pacers you have mentioned?
 
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Naseem might be over rated, but he has all the tools to succeed. He is quicker on average than all Indian pacers, and can seam the ball. Will be a handful in England and New Zealand, IF he hits the right lengths.

How tall are Shami and Bumrah?

The problem is that I am not so convinced of Pakistan setup that hasn't produced a single fast bowler with 200 test wickets in this millennium even though there were many who looked solid prospects in their young days.

In contrast, Indian bowling factory has gotten better from past and Shami already has 180 test wickets to his name at 27, Ishant v2.0 has been phenomenal in past 5 years and Bumrah had a dream start to his test career in his overseas tours to South Africa, England and Australia. Hence, you can't compare Naseem to Shami and Bumrah's age. Even Umesh Yadav has gotten so better in past few years.

I am afraid if Pakistan's setup will be able to handle the development of Shaheen Shah and Naseem Shah in the right way. Think former will find a way anyways but doubt about the latter.
 
The problem is that I am not so convinced of Pakistan setup that hasn't produced a single fast bowler with 200 test wickets in this millennium even though there were many who looked solid prospects in their young days.

In contrast, Indian bowling factory has gotten better from past and Shami already has 180 test wickets to his name at 27, Ishant v2.0 has been phenomenal in past 5 years and Bumrah had a dream start to his test career in his overseas tours to South Africa, England and Australia. Hence, you can't compare Naseem to Shami and Bumrah's age. Even Umesh Yadav has gotten so better in past few years.

I am afraid if Pakistan's setup will be able to handle the development of Shaheen Shah and Naseem Shah in the right way. Think former will find a way anyways but doubt about the latter.

Shami is almost 30, where do you have 27 from?
 
The problem is that I am not so convinced of Pakistan setup that hasn't produced a single fast bowler with 200 test wickets in this millennium even though there were many who looked solid prospects in their young days.

In contrast, Indian bowling factory has gotten better from past and Shami already has 180 test wickets to his name at 27, Ishant v2.0 has been phenomenal in past 5 years and Bumrah had a dream start to his test career in his overseas tours to South Africa, England and Australia. Hence, you can't compare Naseem to Shami and Bumrah's age. Even Umesh Yadav has gotten so better in past few years.

I am afraid if Pakistan's setup will be able to handle the development of Shaheen Shah and Naseem Shah in the right way. Think former will find a way anyways but doubt about the latter.
Exactly, we cannot say much right now at this point of time. Let them play and we can form our opinions.

I agree, it's imperative that we support these young guns. All of them, not just the ones we think are good right now.

Did not compare the achievements of Indian bowlers with our rookie pace bowlers. Just a polite inquiry, since you said Naseem doesnt have the height to be successful.
 
Naseem is a massively overrated bowler in this thread. His start has been good considering his age but I really don't see him becoming a great bowler. I dont think he will reach at Mohammad Shami's level. Shami will end up with 325+ test wickets @27 and end up a level below ATGs- at the same level as Gillispie, Broad and Johnson.

Rest all have a long way to go. Shaheen looks a solid prospect though.

He has the ingredients. Pace, swing, seam, all he needs to develop is more control.
 
shaheen


huge gap



all the fodders in this list.

agarkar is better than all of them in odi btw except shaheen. agarkar actually is better than all of the current Asian bowlers barring bumrah, shami and shaheen. he was good In odi's. he sucked in tests. don't confuse tests for our.

Even in tests only shaheen has potential. naseem I am still not convinced about. The other shorties will have to develop more skills, bouncers and maintain speed for long periods. Going to be hard. They struggle to bowl 20 overs even when they play less test cricket. If they had india schedule they would be in the hospital bed.
 
Let me answer point by point :

1) I take it the reason why you mention musa and Husnain is because you expect that with their pace they should be fantastic bowlers and have amazing stats yet they bowl dross which gets taken apart by batsmen. Is that the gist of it?

No. Pace is something which will decrease with time no matter what, unless these bowlers look after themselves (PCB will not that for sure), and get more fit and athletic. Also, with so many T20s around, I am sure after few seasons their pace will drop too. In addition, in todays modern cricket, if you have only pace you will be hammered a lot.

Problem with these guys is bowling dross (after taking a wicket) to even not so high level batsmen and leaking runs and pressure. That no body can teach you, that comes from common sense that if a new batsman has come and based on match situation what a bowler needs to do..Wasim and Waqar were prime example of using brains a lot apart from skills.. Our generation of bowlers really lack this.
 
shaheen


huge gap



all the fodders in this list.

agarkar is better than all of them in odi btw except shaheen. agarkar actually is better than all of the current Asian bowlers barring bumrah, shami and shaheen. he was good In odi's. he sucked in tests. don't confuse tests for our.

Even in tests only shaheen has potential. naseem I am still not convinced about. The other shorties will have to develop more skills, bouncers and maintain speed for long periods. Going to be hard. They struggle to bowl 20 overs even when they play less test cricket. If they had india schedule they would be in the hospital bed.


:)

that's the point I wanted to talk about..

Those shorties are just bowling mindless fast bowling, and btw they are not that fast as well (today even 145-150 kph is like too fast) Any one remember Sami ( bowled 155+ consistently for many years)
 
Even in his peak Agarkar used to leak boundaries and using him as an example to predict future of bowlers who are yet to play handful of FC matches and are in their teenage or entering 20s.

I dont have problem with youngsters struggling with their lines and lengths, problem comes in when even after quite a few years into their domestic careers let alone international careers they still struggle with lines and lengths as Agarkar did.

Predicting a 19 year old raw pacer struggling with his lines and lengths to be next Agarkar than you can apply this theory to every teenager pacer as most of them go for boundaries in T20s.

You can see T20I economy of even Kagiso Rabada who is now 25 a top bowler and has been in international cricket for almost 5 years now, its is 8.62, Lungi Ngidi's is 8.65. So why do they concede boundaries at such a high rate when they are much more experienced than the 3 young pacers you have mentioned?


So when we talk about Rabada, that man has played only 24 T20 games in span of 6 years, and did not play T20 between 2016- 2018. Of course, he is not a t20 kind of player, but still Sa used him well in Tests..Now, in our case, if your young bowlers does not look good or come good in his early games, then your system (PCB & domestic) will definitely loose them..then they will reappear in some TV channels after few years
 
:)

that's the point I wanted to talk about..

Those shorties are just bowling mindless fast bowling, and btw they are not that fast as well (today even 145-150 kph is like too fast) Any one remember Sami ( bowled 155+ consistently for many years)

Mohammad Hasnain is 6ft 2.

And coming to the mindless part, have you really watched bowling of Naseem? Lets come to the PSL first, he set up international batsman David Malan with outswing and then shifting to inswing and uprooting his middle stump. Same was the case against Srl when he set up Mathews for an out swinger and similar was the case against BD. There were other such dismissals during that series and in QAE as well.

I guess you jumped to many conclusions based upon T20 cricket in which Steyn, Rabada, Amir etc all go for runs.
 
So when we talk about Rabada, that man has played only 24 T20 games in span of 6 years, and did not play T20 between 2016- 2018. Of course, he is not a t20 kind of player, but still Sa used him well in Tests..Now, in our case, if your young bowlers does not look good or come good in his early games, then your system (PCB & domestic) will definitely loose them..then they will reappear in some TV channels after few years

As you said T20 isnt enough to judge but you have made this thread based upon PSL and T20s as its going on and other than that all these guys havent played much.

Coming to the system yes middle tier talent can be lost but upper tier talent is even recognized in Pakistan’s cricket system, yes management of it can be argued upon. For example Moh Amir had a pretty poor start to his test career, he wasnt lost in the system because everybody knew his potential and was given chance after chance until he showed something in Eng series before finishing his own career.

As I have said Hasnain and Musa need to improve their bowling and they have time on their side but they arent the chosen ones as of yet because they have limited skillset at the moment.

Coming to Naseem Shah, everybody in domestic circuit and PCB knows his talent and potential, if he remains fit he is gonna play for Pakistan for a long time in Tests and ODIs.

So nobody is gonna be lost if they can achieve a certain skillset and remain fit. Amir, Asif, Junaid etc were lost due to their own mistakes.

Out of the names you have mentioned only Naseem is in the chosen league as of now and rightly so, rest have a lot of work to do.
 
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First of all how did that Ajit Agarkar come to the discussion? Who is he? Who even knows that garbage player.This is the ultimate insult to naseem hasnain and even Musa.Naseem is already the fastest pacer in tests from Asia and he has got a test hattrick and he is going to be better pacer than India's best pacer (whoever he is) that's for sure.as far as hasnain is concerned he is already faster than any Indian pacer who has played the game.He is gonna serve Pakistan for long time.This thread is absurd should be deleted immediately.
 
The problem is that I am not so convinced of Pakistan setup that hasn't produced a single fast bowler with 200 test wickets in this millennium even though there were many who looked solid prospects in their young days.

In contrast, Indian bowling factory has gotten better from past and Shami already has 180 test wickets to his name at 27, Ishant v2.0 has been phenomenal in past 5 years and Bumrah had a dream start to his test career in his overseas tours to South Africa, England and Australia. Hence, you can't compare Naseem to Shami and Bumrah's age. Even Umesh Yadav has gotten so better in past few years.

I am afraid if Pakistan's setup will be able to handle the development of Shaheen Shah and Naseem Shah in the right way. Think former will find a way anyways but doubt about the latter.

These talents come once a generation. Waqar and Wasim made use of it, Amir and Asif didn't. Both of them should have been at 200+ if not more test wickets by now, with Asif's actual retirement having come two or so years ago had things run their course, rather than the scandal both of them got caught up in. If Bumrah and lets say Nagarkoti (who seems to be the most talented young Indian bowler), were suspended tomorrow due to spot fixing, India would lose its own once in a generation bowler and would be set back a decade. This is what happened with Asif and Amir. Akin to these once in 15 year generations, Shaheen and Naseem are the current generation of talent.

The idea is that this generation can definitely come good if they develop well. All we need is two world class pacers (one being Shaheen, the other being either Naseem, Hasnain, or Akif) with all these other pacers serving second fiddle to manage workloads. If you ask me, the Pakistani setup isn't at all bad for fast bowlers. It's bad for players in general given the fixing epidemic and attitude issues. As long as Shaheen, Naseem, Akif, and Hasnain avoid drugs, bookies, and manage their workloads alright, especially under the guidance of Waqar Younis and the occasional tip from Wasim Akram, they should be okay.

Occasionally Hasan Ali is brought up as an example of mismanagement by the Pakistani set up. My answer to that is simply a mix of height (1 inch shorter than Bumrah, 2 inches shorter than Naseem, 4 inches shorter than Hasnain and Akif, and 9 inches shorter than Shaheen), as well as pace, which has never even come close to the kind of pace that all of the above are generating. Similar goes for all the other bowlers that have been hyped as generational talents in Pakistan over the last ten years such as Mohammad Abbas who didn't have height and pace working for him, only a deadly accuracy. The only bowlers worth comparing to are Sami, Akhtar, Amir (could have been Pakistan greats) with Asif perhaps one tier higher (could have been Pakistan ATG). This new generation has height, swing, seam, and pace. Naseem, the smallest, has probably the best combination of the other three, while Shaheen is best amongst all of these. Akif and Hasnain are tall and show the ability to improve (Hasnain's seam position has gotten so much better in the last year, and he's still 19 so I'm hoping it improves further).

For the same shortcomings that plagued these other bowlers above, my personal feeling is Musa Khan will never make it to that next level due to a cripplingly small height and inability to swing the ball for now. So yes perhaps he can be compared to Ajit Agarkar. Faheem Ashraf and Amad Butt are all rounders, and do not enter this discussion.
 
First of all how did that Ajit Agarkar come to the discussion? Who is he? Who even knows that garbage player.This is the ultimate insult to naseem hasnain and even Musa.Naseem is already the fastest pacer in tests from Asia and he has got a test hattrick and he is going to be better pacer than India's best pacer (whoever he is) that's for sure.as far as hasnain is concerned he is already faster than any Indian pacer who has played the game.He is gonna serve Pakistan for long time.This thread is absurd should be deleted immediately.

Here I am pointing out the shortcomings. and some poster don't have any logic of how to understand it. Though we will find in next 6 months - 1year where all they end up.. I think if any of them fail, you will be the first one to ask for their head.. Very extremist view with that lack of knowledge in cricket..
 
For me, Ajit Agarkar's best performance was in Adelaide test in 2002/2003 tour. I think he was also the fastest to take 50 ODI wickets that time.

And if I am not wrong there is a thread on Pakpassion comparing him with Wasim or Waqar? :inti
 
For me, Ajit Agarkar's best performance was in Adelaide test in 2002/2003 tour. I think he was also the fastest to take 50 ODI wickets that time.

And if I am not wrong there is a thread on Pakpassion comparing him with Wasim or Waqar? :inti

Not sure about wasim or waqar
but im pretty sure Ajit was better than those Duds mention in this thread except Naseem.
they are yet to prove anything its even unfair to hasnain or amad as they didnt get much opportunity yet . but Faheem is The epitome of mediocrity .
 
For me, Ajit Agarkar's best performance was in Adelaide test in 2002/2003 tour. I think he was also the fastest to take 50 ODI wickets that time.

And if I am not wrong there is a thread on Pakpassion comparing him with Wasim or Waqar? :inti

Considering lack of knowledge of some people here, most of the efforts have wasted in telling them who he is. Theme of the post is, I see lot of these youngsters they are just bowling so many loose deliveries (considering they are not bowling against the top 20-30% of batting quality). And this reminds me of Ajit Agarkar, who also used to deliver short bowling/half tracker with good pace (BTW if people don't know he consistently clocked between 135-148 kph) and took lots of wickets.
 
Not sure about wasim or waqar
but im pretty sure Ajit was better than those Duds mention in this thread except Naseem.
they are yet to prove anything its even unfair to hasnain or amad as they didnt get much opportunity yet . but Faheem is The epitome of mediocrity .

I laugh at some of the mediocrity served by our PCB (Faheem Ashraf, Akmals, Shehzads, legend Asif Ali) Its been a decade watching below average performances.
Naseem, Musa, Hasnain have a long way to go, if they continue to bowl like this,, we will not see them a lot..
 
Naseem,Akif and ofcourse Shaheen all 3 have great potential.Hasnain has the tools but is still very raw I think couple of FC seasons and he will be in the reckoning.

He has been in setup for more than an year. What he needs 10 years to start his career.
 
He has been in setup for more than an year. What he needs 10 years to start his career.

He has literally played no first class cricket. He needs to play a season


He’s raw but not bad. Has many things going for him
 
I laugh at some of the mediocrity served by our PCB (Faheem Ashraf, Akmals, Shehzads, legend Asif Ali) Its been a decade watching below average performances.
Naseem, Musa, Hasnain have a long way to go, if they continue to bowl like this,, we will not see them a lot..

Wait so you're saying Naseem is bowling badly.
 
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