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New Zealand vs Pakistan: Which team has the better ODI pace attack?

Arsalan Pro

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With conditions in New Zealand likely to favour seamers and both teams possessing some high quality fast bowlers, it will all come down to which team's pacers will outperform their rivals and take their team to glory?

So, if we consider only the players who will take part in the series, Which team has the better ODI pace attack going into the series?

Pakistan:

Mohammad Amir
Hasan Ali
Rumman Raees
Fahim Ashraf
Amir Yamin

New Zealand:

Trent Boult
Tim Southee
Lockie Ferguson
Doug Bracewell
Matt Henry
 
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Arsalan Pro said:
With conditions in New Zealand likely to favour seamers and both teams possessing some high quality fast bowlers, it will all come down to which team's pacers will outperform their rivals and take their team to glory?

So, if we consider only the players who will take part in the series, Which team has the better ODI pace attack going into the series?

Pakistan:

Mohammad Amir
Hasan Ali
Rumman Raees
Fahim Ashraf
Amir Yamin

New Zealand:

Trent Boult
Tim Southee
Lockie Ferguson
Doug Bracewell
Matt Henry
Click to expand...
Pakistan
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Any logic sir?
Click to expand...

Hasan is the best ODI bowler in the world at the moment, but Boult is better than Amir and the likes of Henry, Southee and Ferguson are considerably better than our third choice pacers like Raees, Junaid, Shinwari etc.

Bracewell, Yamin and Fahim are all substandard bowlers though, who won’t make it as specialists.
 
We don't have a settled new ball opening pair and Amir is inconsistent regardless of how many dropped catches or how good he is at his peak (CT final etc). Rumman is yet to fully nail his spot (should be able to in Junaid's absence). Hasan is the spearhead giving the attack the threatening vibe it has, otherwise I feel it still has much to prove. I don't have much faith in Yamin with a ball, I do with Fahim and he looks very promising, but raw and, again, inexperienced.

I'd still take our attack over New Zealand's but if the question is who will perform better in the upcoming series, then there isn't enough of a gap between the two to prevent NZ's attack from doing better in familiar home territory.
 
Not much to chose. They are at same level but Kiwis know how to exploit their home conditions. Hence, in NZ, it will be NZ.
 
Boult and Ali will both bowl well. They are bankers. If one is exceptional, it could turn the series.

Raes & Southee about equal, given Southee is in his familiar conditions and slightly more experienced.

Ferguson vs Amir could be a key difference. Ferguson is running hot & is going to provide a real challenge. Amir will need to produce his best if Pakistan are going to keep up. Will need to be the electric, irresistible Amir not the listless, trundling version.
 
New Zealand.

Pakistan’s pace bowling going into this series is mediocre apart from Ali, and the latter himself hasn’t looked himself of late due to the needless participation in every single league out there.

I don’t understand this mentality of Amir’s in which he only runs in when he’s up against the best. For most players simply playing for your country is enough motivation to perform. Anyhow, don’t have much expectation, he’s failed to perform in every series since his return.

Raees is untested but I haven’t been to impressed. Gets some swing with the new ball but that’s about it. His variations lack convection and I personally feel he bowls them for the sake of variation,

Yamin the bowler is trash, he’s primarily a batsman so I don’t understand how he replaces Junaid. Inzi The Legend strikes again. :salute:
 
Mamoon said:
Hasan is the best ODI bowler in the world at the moment, but Boult is better than Amir and the likes of Henry, Southee and Ferguson are considerably better than our third choice pacers like Raees, Junaid, Shinwari etc.

Bracewell, Yamin and Fahim are all substandard bowlers though, who won’t make it as specialists.
Click to expand...
Simply laughable.

Shinwari is better than Henry, Southee (When was the last time he performed in any format?) The comparison between Shinwari and Ferguson is tight and the latter is hardly a considerably better bowler.
 
If Lockie becomes our enforcer, I think we'll have the superior pace bowling unit.

I need to see more searing thunderbolts at the throat of batsmen :akhtar
 
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Chip32 said:
Simply laughable.

Shinwari is better than Henry, Southee (When was the last time he performed in any format?) The comparison between Shinwari and Ferguson is tight and the latter is hardly a considerably better bowler.
Click to expand...
Honest question, who is Shinwari?

Edit:
lmao he's played 6 ODIs and he's better than Henry and Southee :)))

Didn't Henry trouble Pakistani batsmen in the UAE?
 
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zKBGq2.gif
 
Chip32 said:
Simply laughable.

Shinwari is better than Henry, Southee (When was the last time he performed in any format?) The comparison between Shinwari and Ferguson is tight and the latter is hardly a considerably better bowler.
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How is shinwari better than henry and southee.He has played a handful of games
 
Aamir vs Boult
Ruman vs Henry
Hasan vs Southee
Fahim vs Bracewell
Shadab vs Santener

bench
imad vs sodhi
yamin vs Ferguson

Hence NZ slightly better than PAK, with favourable conditions.
 
Chip32 said:
Simply laughable.

Shinwari is better than Henry, Southee (When was the last time he performed in any format?) The comparison between Shinwari and Ferguson is tight and the latter is hardly a considerably better bowler.
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Henry averages 25 with the ball in ODIs and below 20 against Pakistan from 6 ODIs. How can Shinwari who has played a grand total of 2 ODIs be possibly better than him to date? :13:
 
In NZ , they are comfortably better than us . More than bowling , batting would be main concern for the Pakistani team .
 
jaf348 said:
Henry averages 25 with the ball in ODIs and below 20 against Pakistan from 6 ODIs. How can Shinwari who has played a grand total of 2 ODIs be possibly better than him to date? :13:
Click to expand...

Logic and patriotism generally do not go hand in hand. I prefer to ignore such drivel because I believe it is below the lower threshold of my intellectual capacity.
 
New Zealand, apart from Hasan Ali, nobody is really that good. Shinwari is a big loss.

Boult and Southee easily beat our new ball bowlers, even Henry is better than Raees, and they also have Lockie who'll be bowling around 150 kph.
 
Both decent attacks. Pak has the 2 best bowlers in Hasan and Amir but the balance of the line-up favours NZ.
 
Pretty much equal. Southee has been disappointing recently while Ferguson is inexperienced. Junaid's presence would have tipped the scales in Pakistan's favour slightly.
 
New Zealand by a decent comfortable margin.

Pakistan odi attack is not experienced.

Like everyone stated above we realistically only have hasan Ali, Amir isn't consistent enough
 
The underrating of Mohammad Amir here is so funny. He is in the top 3 pacers in ODI's.
He just won the final of the ICC champions trophy dismissing Sharma, Dhawan and Kohli on a very flat pitch.
 
NZ is better, but people are overrating Southee. Rumman might not have played much international cricket, but he's been one of the best bowlers in the PSL and only got a phainta once in intl. matches.
 
Pakistan has the best pace attack in the World, after Australia.

Feeling sorry for pacers like Mir hamza who is not selected.
 
At home NZ have a better pace bowling attack.
But Shadab is a superior bowler to Santner. But NZ have a few more options with the bowl like Munro, Worker, Williamson while Pakistan only have Shoaib Malik as the sixth bowler which changes the balance in NZ's favor.
 
Mamoon said:
Hasan is the best ODI bowler in the world at the moment, but Boult is better than Amir and the likes of Henry, Southee and Ferguson are considerably better than our third choice pacers like Raees, Junaid, Shinwari etc.

Bracewell, Yamin and Fahim are all substandard bowlers though, who won’t make it as specialists.
Click to expand...


You're incorrectly comparing New Zealand's top pacer in Boult with Amir, who is better than all of New Zealand's other pace options. Not to mention, Hasan gives Pakistan a huge advantage in the middle overs, where most ODI games are won unlike New Zealand's predominantly new-ball attack.

Overall, if we go bowler for bowler:

Hasan > Boult
Amir > Southee
Raees < Ferguson, Henry

Even if we factor in support bowlers, experience in NZL conditions, fielding it is still a very close comparison - definitely not enough to conclude New Zealands attack is 'comfortably better'.
 
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Chip32 said:
New Zealand.

Pakistan’s pace bowling going into this series is mediocre apart from Ali, and the latter himself hasn’t looked himself of late due to the needless participation in every single league out there.

I don’t understand this mentality of Amir’s in which he only runs in when he’s up against the best. For most players simply playing for your country is enough motivation to perform. Anyhow, don’t have much expectation, he’s failed to perform in every series since his return.

Raees is untested but I haven’t been to impressed. Gets some swing with the new ball but that’s about it. His variations lack convection and I personally feel he bowls them for the sake of variation,

Yamin the bowler is trash, he’s primarily a batsman so I don’t understand how he replaces Junaid. Inzi The Legend strikes again. :salute:
Click to expand...


Hasan Ali is the finest ODI bowler on the planet, a Champions Trophy man of the tournament - feats which no NZL bowler has even come close to achieving. Participating in a couple of T20 tournaments isn't going to change this.

Amir, for all the hate he receives on this forum, has a comfortably superior ODI career record to every NZL bowler except Boult, who despite a slightly better average has an inferior economy run-rate to Amir. This is still the case if you factor in the last 18 months where according to you, Amir has 'failed in every series he's played since his return'. His performances in big matches should only add to his repertoire - I'd much rather have a man who can go toe-to-toe with the giants rather than bowlers who pad their stats against minnows.

Whilst you may not rate Raees, he has performed admirably in every international match he has played to date - which includes a last minute cap in a Champions Trophy semi-final.

Faheem, Yamin (if he plays) are support bowlers, with Faheem in particular showing in his career so far that he is capable of taking wickets. Despite this, their roles are limited and shouldn't reflect the core strength of our pace attack.

It may not be the best attack in the world according to you but it is certainly not mediocre. You don't win world tournaments with a mediocre attack - especially a team like Pakistan which has a complete dud batting line-up.
 
On faster wickets - NZ slightly but Hasan Ali on his day be the one man army all that Pakistan needs.
On slower wickets - Pakistan better by a resonable margin.
 
Pakistan bowling has more variety and have better wicket taking options. Amir, Hasan, Shadab and Raees are all wicket taking bowlers. It will be important for us to go for wickets, we can take wickets throughout the innings. How Raees supports Amir would be crucial as well, he cannot leak runs... Fahim is also not a rubbish bowler, he bowls at good length... Azhar has done good work with Bowlers in last 8 months or so, they have cut down on bad lengths, let’s hope we don’t waste match or two in adjusting. Winning a match in first two game is key....

This notion that Boult is so much better than Amir is OTT, last time Amir bowl better than boult in LOIs. Amir will out bowl Boult, provided we don’t drop sitters. It’s important to don’t give lives to their top 3.

In Hasan and Shadab we have bowlers who can take wickets in middle over. Shadab spins the bowl pretty much everywhere. Our death bowling is also better than them, again Azhar has done lot better with bowlers bowling correct length at right time.
 
yasir said:
Pakistan bowling has more variety and have better wicket taking options. Amir, Hasan, Shadab and Raees are all wicket taking bowlers. It will be important for us to go for wickets, we can take wickets throughout the innings. How Raees supports Amir would be crucial as well, he cannot leak runs... Fahim is also not a rubbish bowler, he bowls at good length... Azhar has done good work with Bowlers in last 8 months or so, they have cut down on bad lengths, let’s hope we don’t waste match or two in adjusting. Winning a match in first two game is key....

This notion that Boult is so much better than Amir is OTT, last time Amir bowl better than boult in LOIs. Amir will out bowl Boult, provided we don’t drop sitters. It’s important to don’t give lives to their top 3.

In Hasan and Shadab we have bowlers who can take wickets in middle over. Shadab spins the bowl pretty much everywhere. Our death bowling is also better than them, again Azhar has done lot better with bowlers bowling correct length at right time.
Click to expand...
The notion that Amir is comparable to Boult performance wise (not potential or tailunt) is over the top. Doesn't he average 30s in ODIs? Hell, he doesn't even have 1 5fer.

Amir has 1 4fer, 0 5fers.

Boult has 4 4fers, 3 5fers .
 
MeanAndGreen said:
Hasan Ali is the finest ODI bowler on the planet, a Champions Trophy man of the tournament - feats which no NZL bowler has even come close to achieving. Participating in a couple of T20 tournaments isn't going to change this.

Amir, for all the hate he receives on this forum, has a comfortably superior ODI career record to every NZL bowler except Boult, who despite a slightly better average has an inferior economy run-rate to Amir. This is still the case if you factor in the last 18 months where according to you, Amir has 'failed in every series he's played since his return'. His performances in big matches should only add to his repertoire - I'd much rather have a man who can go toe-to-toe with the giants rather than bowlers who pad their stats against minnows.

Whilst you may not rate Raees, he has performed admirably in every international match he has played to date - which includes a last minute cap in a Champions Trophy semi-final.

Faheem, Yamin (if he plays) are support bowlers, with Faheem in particular showing in his career so far that he is capable of taking wickets. Despite this, their roles are limited and shouldn't reflect the core strength of our pace attack.

It may not be the best attack in the world according to you but it is certainly not mediocre. You don't win world tournaments with a mediocre attack - especially a team like Pakistan which has a complete dud batting line-up.
Click to expand...
What do you call equal top wicket taker in the World Cup?

And no, Hasan Ali is not the best ODI bowler in the world. He's barely played more than 2 years and is a unknown to most of world cricket.
 
Aman said:
The notion that Amir is comparable to Boult performance wise (not potential or tailunt) is over the top. Doesn't he average 30s in ODIs? Hell, he doesn't even have 1 5fer.

Amir has 1 4fer, 0 5fers.

Boult has 4 4fers, 3 5fers .
Click to expand...

how many matches has Boult played in UAE?
 
Sean143 said:
how many matches has Boult played in UAE?
Click to expand...
7 in India and 4 in SL.

Taking 5 in NZ isn't easy as it sounds, we wouldn't be scoring 300+ as frequently as we do if it was.

You either get the outlier where the ball moves or there's the other way of containing and picking up wickets via batsmens mistakes.
 
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Aman said:
7 in India and 4 in SL.

Taking 5 in NZ isn't easy as it sounds, we wouldn't be scoring 300+ as frequently as we do if it was.

You either get the outlier where the ball moves or there's the other way of containing and picking up wickets via batsmens mistakes.
Click to expand...

stats are showing that boult is better but Amir is a better swing bowler than boult It's just that he hasn't been able to swing the ball through the air lately.But when he gets his confidence back and is fully fit he will be a handful.Workload has also been a problem for him has bowled 800+overs in the past year or so 2nd only to Rabada.
 
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Sean143 said:
stats are showing that boult is better but Amir is a better swing bowler than boult It's just that he hasn't been able to swing the ball through the air lately.But when he gets his confidence back and is fully fit he will be a handful.Workload has also been a problem for him has bowled 800+overs in the past year or so 2nd only to Rabada.
Click to expand...
Let me clue you into something - the kookaburra rarely swings in NZ.

Swing will likely play a minimal part in the series.

The team whose bowlers contains and bats best will win.
 
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Aman said:
Let me clue you into something - the kookaburra rarely swings in NZ.

Swing will likely play a minimal part in the series.
Click to expand...

If it does not swing much then it would favor Babar imo because he is an extremely good player on true bouncy wickets but can struggle when it starts swinging
 
Sean143 said:
If it does not swing much then it would favor Babar imo because he is an extremely good player on true bouncy wickets but can struggle when it starts swinging
Click to expand...
He'll do fine if he sees off the little movement that might be there early. Between overs 10-50 it's pretty easy to score.

If there's nothing there, your openers can go for the get go and make use of the PP.
 
Aman said:
Let me clue you into something - the kookaburra rarely swings in NZ.

Swing will likely play a minimal part in the series.

The team whose bowlers contains and bats best will win.
Click to expand...

There has been a problem with Amir's length as well he has been very conservative since his comeback and because of that he has been economical but hasn't taken much wickets.Teams may also play him differently now(considering that the overall strength of Pakistan's bowling attack has increased) maybe the same conservative approach can help him when batsman start attacking him at the start
 
Aman said:
He'll do fine if he sees off the little movement that might be there early. Between overs 10-50 it's pretty easy to score.

If there's nothing there, your openers can go for the get go and make use of the PP.
Click to expand...

will probably bat at a better strike rate as well as he has played a lot of age group cricket in NZ/AUS and was playing fairly briskly on his last limited over tour to New Zealand
 
Aman said:
What do you call equal top wicket taker in the World Cup?

And no, Hasan Ali is not the best ODI bowler in the world. He's barely played more than 2 years and is a unknown to most of world cricket.
Click to expand...

My bad, Boult was terrific in the 2015 edition. However let's not forget that he didn't win man of the tournament and was also part of a very good NZL team that was filled with match winners. Hasan almost single handedly inspired a No.9 ranked team to the title.


He's ranked No.1 in the world right now according to the ICC rankings. He's taken wickets in every series he's played - in places like England, Australia and UAE which are some of the toughest for touring fast bowlers - all in the first 18 months of his international career. His work ethic and bowling style suggests he will only improve as well, especially since there is no novelty or 'mystery' about his bowling like Ajmal, Mendis, Mustafizur that international batters can figure out.

Whether or not he is the undisputed best is up for debate but there is no denying he is the form ODI bowler in world cricket right now and is up there with the best.
 
Aman said:
The notion that Amir is comparable to Boult performance wise (not potential or tailunt) is over the top. Doesn't he average 30s in ODIs? Hell, he doesn't even have 1 5fer.

Amir has 1 4fer, 0 5fers.

Boult has 4 4fers, 3 5fers .
Click to expand...

Boult has a slightly better average but Amir has the better run rate.

Both are terrific bowlers and while Boult is more consistent and able to run through sides, it is not over the top to compare Amir with Boult, especially considering Amirs ability to raise his game when up against the best.
 
Aman said:
The notion that Amir is comparable to Boult performance wise (not potential or tailunt) is over the top. Doesn't he average 30s in ODIs? Hell, he doesn't even have 1 5fer.

Amir has 1 4fer, 0 5fers.

Boult has 4 4fers, 3 5fers .
Click to expand...
No he doesn't.

Boult has a better average and Amir a better economy rate.
And they are comparable at least because Amir has dismissed the best top 3 of the champions trophy in the final with super bowling.
 
Boult might be the main strike bowler for the Kiwis but I think Henry deserves a bit more respect. He averages 18 in NZ and he has already ripped through Pakistan in the UAE in the past on some of the flattest wickets around.
 
Aman said:
The notion that Amir is comparable to Boult performance wise (not potential or tailunt) is over the top. Doesn't he average 30s in ODIs? Hell, he doesn't even have 1 5fer.

Amir has 1 4fer, 0 5fers.

Boult has 4 4fers, 3 5fers .
Click to expand...
Amir is very much comparable to Boult. Yet to see Boult win New Zealand a final through sheer destruction of one of the best top-orders in world cricket. Ordinary bowlers don't do that. Boult is one of my favorites tbh, but saying he's comfortably better than Amir is wrong.
 
To add to the above, Boult was absolutely murdered in a few ODIs recently in India. Some of his spells were downright deflating to watch. Haven't seen Amir get ripped apart like that YET.
 
Usman Chadda said:
To add to the above, Boult was absolutely murdered in a few ODIs recently in India. Some of his spells were downright deflating to watch. Haven't seen Amir get ripped apart like that YET.
Click to expand...
Are you kidding me? He was one of our best by far barring one match fpalm
 
NZ at home are seriously a solid team, but if Pakistan go at them they will struggle. Pakistan pace bowlers on there day can destroy any team. It will be a test for our team as the champions trophy winners
 
Mamoon said:
Hasan is the best ODI bowler in the world at the moment, but Boult is better than Amir and the likes of Henry, Southee and Ferguson are considerably better than our third choice pacers like Raees, Junaid, Shinwari etc.

Bracewell, Yamin and Fahim are all substandard bowlers though, who won’t make it as specialists.
Click to expand...

That remains to be seen, Amir in LOI format seems to be a different beast. Granted it was a mediocre Lankan team, saw Amir live at the last T20 in Lahore where he was absolutely sensational. Although Lanka's batters were useless, Amir was head and shoulders above any other pacer on the pitch.
 
It will be equal in NZ. The home bowlers should not be taken lightly.
 
If we compare just the pace attack than Pakistan, however NZ is a much better fielding side so they are comfortably ahead
 
giri26 said:
It will be equal in NZ. The home bowlers should not be taken lightly.
Click to expand...

Whose taking them lightly? the entire reason this thread was even created because it's such a difficult choice between the two.
 
We will soon find out, but I think both attacks are comparable.

Having said that, mental gymnastic to elevate a 25th ranked bowler to among the best in the world is not even hilarious anymore. It used to be funny for the first few times.
 
I vote for Pak

Watch out for Ish Sodhi. He has improved massively. His googly is world class. Had Indian batsman in trouble.
 
LegendAli said:
Whose taking them lightly? the entire reason this thread was even created because it's such a difficult choice between the two.
Click to expand...
I did not say people are but that was a General comment as even though Pakistan looks better bowling team on paper, NZ team at home can be a handful.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
 
Why is amir so underrated here?
Why everyone needs to mention his ct final performance everytime.He has an odi avg of 27 which is really good.He is losing some pace but if he starts bowling again at 140 145 he will be a big threat.Currently he is not amongst top 5 odi bowlers but i think in coming years he will definitely be better.Another thing is that he seldom gives easy runs.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Why is amir so underrated here?
Why everyone needs to mention his ct final performance everytime.He has an odi avg of 27 which is really good.He is losing some pace but if he starts bowling again at 140 145 he will be a big threat.Currently he is not amongst top 5 odi bowlers but i think in coming years he will definitely be better.Another thing is that he seldom gives easy runs.
Click to expand...

He gets hate due to his past, which is very poor thinking. He is indeed a quality bowler and has not lost his pace in LOIs, he still bowls at 140-145 in both ODIs and T20Is which can be seen in his previous few matches. It is Test cricket where his pace has gone down and that too because of the UAE heat and for bowling long spells due to the 4 bowler strategy.
 
Aman said:
The notion that Amir is comparable to Boult performance wise (not potential or tailunt) is over the top. Doesn't he average 30s in ODIs? Hell, he doesn't even have 1 5fer.

Amir has 1 4fer, 0 5fers.

Boult has 4 4fers, 3 5fers .
Click to expand...

Boult plays most of his matches in conditions that favour swing bowling, whereas it is the other way around for Amir. Last time both played in New Zealand, Amir out bowled him and every other bowler with a bowling average of around 10 and economy of 3.5 which is outstanding.
 
troodon said:
I vote for Pak

Watch out for Ish Sodhi. He has improved massively. His googly is world class. Had Indian batsman in trouble.
Click to expand...

Ish Sodhi isn't their first choice spinner in ODI's and isn't going to make to the playing XI ahead of Santner.

I rate Santner more than Sodhi in ODIs and I will be keen to see how Pakistan plays Santner, if they let me go with figures like 10-0-40-1/2 (i.e. 40 runs for 1 or 2 wickets) then it will hurt Pakistan dearly. They can't let him settle and get away with cheap overs but should also be careful of not being ultra aggressive against him.

I still remember giving away 2 wickets to Glenn Maxwell in the 2015 world cup match against Australia in a bid to up the ante and that proved to be very costly.

Find a way of caution with aggression and milk him for runs.
 
Arsalan Pro said:
Boult plays most of his matches in conditions that favour swing bowling, whereas it is the other way around for Amir. Last time both played in New Zealand, Amir out bowled him and every other bowler with a bowling average of around 10 and economy of 3.5 which is outstanding.
Click to expand...
Boult was out of form, IIRC Henry outbowled every bowler in the UAE and he wasn't even a certainty to make the side.
 
After seeing NZ performance they are clear favorite to whitewash us.
 
Arsalan Pro said:
Boult plays most of his matches in conditions that favour swing bowling, whereas it is the other way around for Amir. Last time both played in New Zealand, Amir out bowled him and every other bowler with a bowling average of around 10 and economy of 3.5 which is outstanding.
Click to expand...

Boult got more wickets than Amir in that 2 game series.
 
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