'No makeup, tight jeans': Hazara University issues new dress code for students, staff members

[Cpt. Rishwat]

the problem is digitization/globalization should have sped up this process. The change has already happened in India who started at the same level as us, yet majority back home are adamant not to adapt with times which is creating a huge generational gap between the older order and the next gen

How is that a huge problem? The next generation will automatically overtake the old generation as the older ones die out. It's exactly what I described when I mentioned how within a century, European nations like England went from women covering to their ankles, to wearing barely a piece of string over their whole body on shows like Love Island. Even now in the UK there will be some pushback, it's only natural. You just need to step back and see where you are coming from, it's a lot of change you are expecting in a too short amount of time.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

How is that a huge problem? The next generation will automatically overtake the old generation as the older ones die out. It's exactly what I described when I mentioned how within a century, European nations like England went from women covering to their ankles, to wearing barely a piece of string over their whole body on shows like Love Island. Even now in the UK there will be some pushback, it's only natural. You just need to step back and see where you are coming from, it's a lot of change you are expecting in a too short amount of time.

The issue I see is an interesting one here.

Some posters tend to believe that women wearing less and less clothes (or clothes that may not sit well with their cultural norms in the third world Islamic countries) is THE ONLY SIGN and THE ONLY WAY, to indicate we are in a "progressive society" where females can exercise freedom of choice.

Ironically, the reciprocal is also somewhat true.
Many men in Islamic countries have their Islam that starts with a woman and ends with a woman.
To them, wrapping a women in burka and cover her face is the zenith of their Islamic faith.

In my opinion, to become a "progressive society" one needs to start with following and respecting the LAW. This is the VERY FIRST indicator of a progressive soceity.

Then, work with honesty in your day to day business or line of work.

Third, play your part to keep your streets, your cities and your country clean.

But here, we can't even drive straight by staying in our lane on trash loaded roads, but we want to see half naked women to feel that we are progressing.

And on the other hand, many Islamic countries rank among some of the top corrupt nations in the world but their Islam is all about Hijab, and covering women in Burkas.

There is hardly any balance between the two polarized situations.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The issue I see is an interesting one here.

Some posters tend to believe that women wearing less and less clothes (or clothes that may not sit well with their cultural norms in the third world Islamic countries) is THE ONLY SIGN and THE ONLY WAY, to indicate we are in a "progressive society" where females can exercise freedom of choice.

Ironically, the reciprocal is also somewhat true.
Many men in Islamic countries have their Islam that starts with a woman and ends with a woman.
To them, wrapping a women in burka and cover her face is the zenith of their Islamic faith.

In my opinion, to become a "progressive society" one needs to start with following and respecting the LAW. This is the VERY FIRST indicator of a progressive soceity.

Then, work with honesty in your day to day business or line of work.

Third, play your part to keep your streets, your cities and your country clean.

But here, we can't even drive straight by staying in our lane on trash loaded roads, but we want to see half naked women to feel that we are progressing.

And on the other hand, many Islamic countries rank among some of the top corrupt nations in the world but their Islam is all about Hijab, and covering women in Burkas.

There is hardly any balance between the two polarized situations.

I don't think it's a massive issue to be honest, in a democracy, majority wishes will prevail. So if Muslims don't like women walking around in bikinis on the beach in the UK, there's not much they can do about it other than stay away if they don't like it.

Similarly if Pakistanis want to see women in bikinis on their beaches, there's not much they can do about it either other than complain online. Minority can't enforce their wishes on the majority, that's just the way it is.

I do agree with you about law and order though. That is the one thing which everyone should have a right to, whatever form they might take. That is what people should be complaining about.

 

[mastimasti]

I don't think it's a massive issue to be honest, in a democracy, majority wishes will prevail. So if Muslims don't like women walking around in bikinis on the beach in the UK, there's not much they can do about it other than stay away if they don't like it.

Similarly if Pakistanis want to see women in bikinis on their beaches, there's not much they can do about it either other than complain online. Minority can't enforce their wishes on the majority, that's just the way it is.

I do agree with you about law and order though. That is the one thing which everyone should have a right to, whatever form they might take. That is what people should be complaining about.

Interestingly, on a trip to Monaco, there are bikini bans and men wearing thongs, on the streets of the city. It's only allowed on the beach. In fact, if you're found within the vicinity of the palace (there are signs every where) with that type of clothing, you will have to leave or cover up.

Strange how when brown skinned people talk about this, they are labelled misogynist.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Simply put, it is a clever way to acknowledge that men cant control themselves so stop using make up and wearing "tight" (very subjective) jeans.

But we do know that already, don't we?

Now its just about legalization of the fact.

 

[JaDed]

Right in the heart of NYC, Midtown Manhattan, Wall Street and in Westchester County in NY.
Worked in Finance and Healthcare.

I remember one particular incident when there was an internal email sent out to all employees one summer when I worked for Morgan Stanley. It warned the females to dress up with modesty and avoid wearing too much of a revealing clothes.

If you don't know that Plunging necklines, midriff-revealing crop tops, sheer fabrics, mini skirts etc don't belong in the workplace then I am not sure which corporate America you worked for?

Are you saying there is no dress code in corporate America?

I guess your turn to tell me which cooperate America you worked in? What city?

Are you also denying that there is never an incident in USA when a female student being sent home for not adhering to school's dress code?

And finally, whatever French did is acceptable to their majority, whether you agree or not is your opinion, just as Hazara area can implement to not allow certain clothing articles, now whether someone agrees with it or not is only their opinion.

In Texas and IT, and no no email has ever been sent out that way.

So let me get this straight you accept whatever majority decides in any country?

 

[sweep_shot]

I see nothing wrong with these rules.

Tight jeans are uncomfortable to wear. Students should be encouraged to wear comfortable clothes so that they can focus better.

Regarding makeup, there's no need for it in a school setting. People should go to schools for learning purpose only.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

In Texas and IT, and no no email has ever been sent out that way.

So let me get this straight you accept whatever majority decides in any country?

May be I should take my next job in TX if you guys have bikini clad females at work places in the corporate America?

but yeah
whether I accept or reject with whatever majority of country decides, hardly matters.
My faith and my logic provides me with a guideline that if I am residing in such a country where I don't agree with the laws then I should either leave the country, or use legal channels to voice my opinion, and use legal channels to counter against such law/rules.

Recently, I did not agree with the enforcement of CAA in India, or removal of 370 in the Indian occupied Kashmir. I don't live in India (Thankfully); however, I used legal channel to voice my opinion. But then again, it hardly mattered to India.

 

[fasihulhaq94]

You can judge those people with whatever measure you like with, and they have the right to judge the clothing of western women with whatever measure they like with.

Not sure about you but I've been to Hazara University and have travelled through Hazara region quite a few times. Yes, it was a little while ago but it's not New York City or London or Sydney.

Women in general cover themselves in Shawls including covering their head, whenever they go out.
A woman wearing tight jeans and a tight shirt in such an environment does not sit well for those people.

Now, in your books if that makes them not part of a "respectable society", then good for you!

But something that you are trying to avoid, did you notice the dress code is also for men?
If he wears shots in the public, it is considered indecency in that region.

It's not difficult to understand if you truly wanted to.

Passing a judgement on those people for being backward because women wearing jeans in the open public isn't a social for them, is not really smart way of thinking.

The same "respectable society" that is your frame of reference also allows women to go topless on some public beaches. It's normal in many places in Spain, Portugal, Germany Italy, for example.

Where would you draw the line for Hazara people when you want them to become a "respectable society" for your pleasure?

you have completely missed the point. Women wearing jeans is not for my pleasure. It is their right to decide what they want to wear, whether jeans or a shawl or a burqa, as a fully autonomous human being.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

you have completely missed the point.

hmmm ... probably
But now lets see if you get the point?

Women wearing jeans is not for my pleasure.

This is technically and theoretically correct and I agree with it as well. No one said you get pleasure seeing women in jeans. And I have no problem either with women wearing jeans. And no, I don't get any pleasure whatsoever when a woman wears a jeans, for goodness sake.

But when it comes to saying

It is their right to decide what they want to wear, whether jeans or a shawl or a burqa, as a fully autonomous human being.

then we get into the gray area.

Can this actually happen 100%? Not really.

Even in the most liberal societies women are not allowed to practice this theory and this philosophy when we say, "women should be allowed to wear whatever they want to wear". Show me any liberal society where a women is allowed to walk topless in the open public because today she wanted to wear the G string only?
May be you can point me to some tribe in Amazon or some remote areas in Africa. But would you really call those societies modern and liberal?
For example, one such example from such tribes is, the elder of the family sleeps with the youngest girl of the tribe when she reaches around 10. How liberal is that now?


Every human society has some standards where the majority, collectively decides to adhere to certain standards of attire (together with many other things).

Now, these standards of so called "modesty" (for the lack of a better term), varies from society to society and culture to culture.

Where would you draw the line for entire humanity including all cultures and all societies to follow a uniform standard of modesty that you approve?

Fact of the matter is, in theory there should be a middle path but in reality, it's impossible to find one.

If you demand the hazara women to exercise their right to take off the shawls and start wearing jeans then the society they live in, will have a problem with you.

And same goes the other way, if one tries to ask the western women exercise their right to wear whatever they want, the society they live in, will have a problem with you. (The G string example above).

Or perhaps you don't have a standard of modesty and everything goes in your books like animals?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

you have completely missed the point. Women wearing jeans is not for my pleasure. It is their right to decide what they want to wear, whether jeans or a shawl or a burqa, as a fully autonomous human being.

Not you personally perhaps, but it is done to attract positive attention, usually male attention at that and usually of a sexual nature at that. Not that there's anything wrong with it, which is why it's quite ok to call a spade a spade.

 

[MenInG]

A circular about Valentine's Day allegedly from Islamabad varsity has been making rounds on Twitter. Islamic International Medical College, established in 1996, is a medical school affiliated with Riphah International University apparently issued guidelines to the students about Valentine's Day. The said notice has garnered the attention of many at the micro-blogging website.

In the aforementioned circular, the varsity has guided students to dress modestly on February 14. While the administration has asked the female students to "cover their heads, neck and chest according to the college's dress code", they have mentioned it is mandatory for male students to wear a "white prayer cap." There also has to be a mandatory distance of two metres between male and female students.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/234317...h-modest-valentines-day-dress-code-goes-viral

==

No confirmation if this is true or a hoax.

 

[Major]

but hey, we should be hurt by what Indians are doing with their fellow indians in the university in terms of dressing...... Not knowing how ridiculous it is back home in Pakistan

 

[Salma_T]

Why do men think they can tell what to wear? 8 pages of arguing India is wrong for not allowing Hijab yet some on this post are ok.....women don't want to be policed by men!

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Why do men think they can tell what to wear? 8 pages of arguing India is wrong for not allowing Hijab yet some on this post are ok.....women don't want to be policed by men!

men also allow women to go topless on beaches - men also allow woman to walk in slutty clothes in the public. Men also allow woman to stay naked in nude colonies - men also allow woman to make pornographic movies.

Notice, it's not men, it's the social norms of the culture and society you live in. The threshold varies from culture to culture and society to society. Which is one is right or wrong is not the argument here.

Think about this, a person like a male student, buys a cheap pair of shorts from the local Landa bazaar of some city in northern Pakistan, not knowing that it's actually ladies underwear - but he thought it looked good, so he picked up and now he wears it to his school or university - to which he supposedly has the freedom to do so, you know, because he wants to wear shorts in school and feel good about exercising his right to freedom. BUT, quite a few females (that he originally wanted to impress by wearing shorts) express their displeasure and disgust seeing his skinny legs and over grown puberty sticking out.

Would those school/university girls have the right to register a complain and go the principal's office to launch a protest in effort to FORCE Mr. Major to wear not wear that ladies underwear in school?

If yes, Major or someone else will come back and say, WHY DO WOMEN THINK THEY CAN TELL ME WHAT TO WEAR?

 

[BreadPakoda]

men also allow women to go topless on beaches - men also allow woman to walk in slutty clothes in the public. Men also allow woman to stay naked in nude colonies - men also allow woman to make pornographic movies.

Notice, it's not men, it's the social norms of the culture and society you live in. The threshold varies from culture to culture and society to society. Which is one is right or wrong is not the argument here.

Think about this, a person like a male student, buys a cheap pair of shorts from the local Landa bazaar of some city in northern Pakistan, not knowing that it's actually ladies underwear - but he thought it looked good, so he picked up and now he wears it to his school or university - to which he supposedly has the freedom to do so, you know, because he wants to wear shorts in school and feel good about exercising his right to freedom. BUT, quite a few females (that he originally wanted to impress by wearing shorts) express their displeasure and disgust seeing his skinny legs and over grown puberty sticking out.

Would those school/university girls have the right to register a complain and go the principal's office to launch a protest in effort to FORCE Mr. Major to wear not wear that ladies underwear in school?

If yes, Major or someone else will come back and say, WHY DO WOMEN THINK THEY CAN TELL ME WHAT TO WEAR?

Strawman. Massive difference between doing makeup and exposing your genitalia.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Strawman. Massive difference between doing makeup and exposing your genitalia.

again, both are OK and both are wrong ... based on what measures are you using from what culture and what society.

 

[Itachi]

I'm having a laugh at this. Pakistanis do not have hue and cry of what not to wear in Pakistan but if it's India, it's all conspiracy.

 

[MenInG]

I'm having a laugh at this. Pakistanis do not have hue and cry of what not to wear in Pakistan but if it's India, it's all conspiracy.

Have you read this thread? Do you actually understand the issues at hand?

 

[Itachi]

Have you read this thread? Do you actually understand the issues at hand?

I've read the thread.

Many posts in this particular thread is reflection of self victimization in foriegn countries where as the same "tyranny" when goes inside the country, everything is ok and everyone tries to justify in a futile manner.

I would ask them to have a standard. If one wants want to be honest, then he or she will measure both the cases from same standard.

Even salma_t, who I had argument with in the other thread, was disappointed at the replies from the same posters. It should tell you something.

 

[Salma_T]

My problem is bunch of men policing what women can and can't wear, as they can't control themselves! There is nothing the mullah brigade or the conservative police can say or do justify it such rulings!