Numbers show how Pakistan has replaced Youth with Old Age

[Junaids]

We all know that the World Test Championship is played in 2 year cycles. You would expect that teams would now be rebuilding for the 2021-2023 and 2023-2025 cycles.

Pakistan is leading the way with an innovative system. Never ones to leave things to chance, they are engaged in a systematic mission to refresh the team by replacing any players in danger of being in their peak years with ones whose peak was a decade ago.

It's a brave choice, but it is reaping serious rewards. The team is about to beat Zimbabwe, and is hotly tipped to beat Eritrea or Nicaragua if they are drawn against them in the World Test Championship.

Let's compare the age composition of the final Arthur/Inzamam Test team with the latest Misbah/Wasim Test team.

PLAYERS AGED UNDER 25
Arthur/Inzamam: 5 (and this was with Shaheen Shah Afridi being rested)
Misbah/Wasim: 1

PLAYERS AGED 25-29
Arthur/Inzamam: 3
Misbah/Wasim: 5

PLAYERS AGED 30-32
Arthur/Inzamam: 2
Misbah/Wasim: 0

PLAYERS AGED 33 AND ABOVE
Arthur/Inzamam: 1 (aged 33)
Misbah/Wasim: 5

It is so refreshing that Pakistan didn't waste a Test cap on Saud Shakeel, who is currently 25 years old and just had a superb domestic First Class season. Clearly he needs to be kept waiting until he is in decline, and then parachuted into the team.

Similarly, the bowling attack has been superbly refreshed by the debuts of a 34 year old spinner and a 36 year old medium pacer. Obviously by the time of the 2023 World Test Championship they will be peaking at the ages of 37 and 38 respectively.

 

[Farabi]

We all know that the World Test Championship is played in 2 year cycles. You would expect that teams would now be rebuilding for the 2021-2023 and 2023-2025 cycles.

Pakistan is leading the way with an innovative system. Never ones to leave things to chance, they are engaged in a systematic mission to refresh the team by replacing any players in danger of being in their peak years with ones whose peak was a decade ago.

It's a brave choice, but it is reaping serious rewards. The team is about to beat Zimbabwe, and is hotly tipped to beat Eritrea or Nicaragua if they are drawn against them in the World Test Championship.

Let's compare the age composition of the final Arthur/Inzamam Test team with the latest Misbah/Wasim Test team.

PLAYERS AGED UNDER 25
Arthur/Inzamam: 5 (and this was with Shaheen Shah Afridi being rested)
Misbah/Wasim: 1

PLAYERS AGED 25-29
Arthur/Inzamam: 3
Misbah/Wasim: 5

PLAYERS AGED 30-32
Arthur/Inzamam: 2
Misbah/Wasim: 0

PLAYERS AGED 33 AND ABOVE
Arthur/Inzamam: 1 (aged 33)
Misbah/Wasim: 5

It is so refreshing that Pakistan didn't waste a Test cap on Saud Shakeel, who is currently 25 years old and just had a superb domestic First Class season. Clearly he needs to be kept waiting until he is in decline, and then parachuted into the team.

Similarly, the bowling attack has been superbly refreshed by the debuts of a 34 year old spinner and a 36 year old medium pacer. Obviously by the time of the 2023 World Test Championship they will be peaking at the ages of 37 and 38 respectively.

A good test team is one that WINS TODAY. Why should it have a certain age composition?
Under inzamam/Arthur’s watch, the test team slid to new lows and it would have lost to Zimbabwe and Eritrea although Nicaragua would have been competitive. Test cricket is not a playground, it’s a results a business for professionals. If you have 24 year old replacements share plz

 

[Junaids]

A good test team is one that WINS TODAY. Why should it have a certain age composition?
Under inzamam/Arthur’s watch, the test team slid to new lows and it would have lost to Zimbabwe and Eriteria.

With respect, I could not agree less.

Look at what football teams do after every World Cup. They know that they need to peak 4 years later, and they cull the players who are going to be too old in 4 years and build a team for that. We particularly see European teams fielding youthful teams for the first 2 years of that cycle up to the Euros knowing that they need to peak in 4 years.

Similarly, the South American championships fall 1 year after a World Cup and 3 years before the next one - and teams almost all go with youth.

By the time of the next World Test Championship Final, these will be the ages of certain pakistan players:

Abid Ali 35.8
Azhar Ali 38.4
Fawad Alam 37.8
Nauman Ali 36.9
Tabash Khan 38.4

You can't possibly field 5 players that age in the highest game of all. We have just seen Chelsea beat Real Madrid because Real Madrid lacked the youth and mobility to cope against [players of inferior ability but who were much younger..

Already Abid Ali, Azhar Ali and Fawad Alam fail more often than they succeed against good opposition outside Asia. (Just like the elderly versions of Misbah and Younis did).

How can you build a team around that?

 

[iniqbal223]

People have fading memory;;; did not they know we lost to England , Australia and NZ emphatically

Zimbabwe series will help this old age formula to prolong for few more years; pretty bad state of affairs

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Updated:<br><br>Who says cricket is a young man's game:<br><br>36 year old Tabish Khan took his 1st Test wicket<br>36 year old Azhar Ali made 126<br>34 year old Nauman Ali scored 97 batting at number 9<br>33 year old Abid Ali made 215 not out<br>34 year old Nauman Ali took 5 wickets<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ZIMvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ZIMvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1391413515987169281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 9, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Junaids]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Updated:<br><br>Who says cricket is a young man's game:<br><br>36 year old Tabish Khan took his 1st Test wicket<br>36 year old Azhar Ali made 126<br>34 year old Nauman Ali scored 97 batting at number 9<br>33 year old Abid Ali made 215 not out<br>34 year old Nauman Ali took 5 wickets<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ZIMvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ZIMvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1391413515987169281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 9, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Against Zimbabwe.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Thank you Misbah!

 

[Shoaibbtt]

We all know that the World Test Championship is played in 2 year cycles. You would expect that teams would now be rebuilding for the 2021-2023 and 2023-2025 cycles.

Pakistan is leading the way with an innovative system. Never ones to leave things to chance, they are engaged in a systematic mission to refresh the team by replacing any players in danger of being in their peak years with ones whose peak was a decade ago.

It's a brave choice, but it is reaping serious rewards. The team is about to beat Zimbabwe, and is hotly tipped to beat Eritrea or Nicaragua if they are drawn against them in the World Test Championship.

Let's compare the age composition of the final Arthur/Inzamam Test team with the latest Misbah/Wasim Test team.

PLAYERS AGED UNDER 25
Arthur/Inzamam: 5 (and this was with Shaheen Shah Afridi being rested)
Misbah/Wasim: 1

PLAYERS AGED 25-29
Arthur/Inzamam: 3
Misbah/Wasim: 5

PLAYERS AGED 30-32
Arthur/Inzamam: 2
Misbah/Wasim: 0

PLAYERS AGED 33 AND ABOVE
Arthur/Inzamam: 1 (aged 33)
Misbah/Wasim: 5

It is so refreshing that Pakistan didn't waste a Test cap on Saud Shakeel, who is currently 25 years old and just had a superb domestic First Class season. Clearly he needs to be kept waiting until he is in decline, and then parachuted into the team.

Similarly, the bowling attack has been superbly refreshed by the debuts of a 34 year old spinner and a 36 year old medium pacer. Obviously by the time of the 2023 World Test Championship they will be peaking at the ages of 37 and 38 respectively.

Mate you are about as an inferior fan that you can get.

If “youth” is so important then how come the “old” guys have succeeded over the young guys in the last 2 series?

Might I ask before you go on your age rampage which is quite ridiculous and juvenile to say the least how many 100s has Babar made in the last 2 series?

 

[moghul]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Updated:<br><br>Who says cricket is a young man's game:<br><br>36 year old Tabish Khan took his 1st Test wicket<br>36 year old Azhar Ali made 126<br>34 year old Nauman Ali scored 97 batting at number 9<br>33 year old Abid Ali made 215 not out<br>34 year old Nauman Ali took 5 wickets<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ZIMvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ZIMvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1391413515987169281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 9, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Only in Pakistan and only against a club level team , What was Azhar Ali and Abid Ali's performance against New Zealand and even against South Africa at home soil ?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I'm glad we have so many reliable performers in the side now with years of experience in the tank, instead of a squad of unready, inexperienced, young 'fish out of water' players that aren't ready for test cricket.

Misbah and Wasim have done alot wrong but they deserve some credit for the test team's recent success.

 

[Farabi]

With respect, I could not agree less.

Look at what football teams do after every World Cup. They know that they need to peak 4 years later, and they cull the players who are going to be too old in 4 years and build a team for that. We particularly see European teams fielding youthful teams for the first 2 years of that cycle up to the Euros knowing that they need to peak in 4 years.

Similarly, the South American championships fall 1 year after a World Cup and 3 years before the next one - and teams almost all go with youth.

By the time of the next World Test Championship Final, these will be the ages of certain pakistan players:

Abid Ali 35.8
Azhar Ali 38.4
Fawad Alam 37.8
Nauman Ali 36.9
Tabash Khan 38.4

You can't possibly field 5 players that age in the highest game of all. We have just seen Chelsea beat Real Madrid because Real Madrid lacked the youth and mobility to cope against [players of inferior ability but who were much younger..

Already Abid Ali, Azhar Ali and Fawad Alam fail more often than they succeed against good opposition outside Asia. (Just like the elderly versions of Misbah and Younis did).

How can you build a team around that?

Chicago Bulls coach once famously said “Winning is not everything, it’s the only thing that matters.” Pakistan team needs to be stop this sham “rebuilding” since 2003. When you have a winning team and seniors are nailing down slots, that’s the time to introduce youth who can learn from their seniors and adopt their winning culture.
Mickey’s incessant desire to see new faces destroyed the peaks of many experienced players like Sohail and Junaid Khan. Pak team was always desperately inexperienced and struggling to compete, the confidence was all time low and the team was not going anywhere. That’s SHAM rebuilding.

Totally aligned with Misbah/Babar/WAsim on debuting the best FC performers agnostic of age. Test cricket is where you perform, the place to learn is domestic cricket.

Pak has won all of its last tests against BGL,SRL, SA and now ZIM. It climbed the rankings from 7 to 5th. Team Rating is up 20 points from 80ish to around 100 now. If Pakistan beats WI, it’s got a good shot to break into top-4. From there a few good home series could open up a path to no 1 in test ranking. When you’re there on the top, start introducing talent into the winning team gradually but always making sure that WINNING is never compromised!!!
Even then, top performers from FC should play. Age should only be a factor when debating on two equally skilled players with comparable performance

 

[Farabi]

I'm glad we have so many reliable performers in the side now with years of experience in the tank, instead of a squad of unready, inexperienced, young 'fish out of water' players that aren't ready for test cricket.

Misbah and Wasim have done alot wrong but they deserve some credit for the test team's recent success.

Agreed!
Sajid, Abid, Fawad, nauman and Hassan Ali literally knocked the selection door down with their performances in FC. The poster seem to be suggesting that we should handcuff them and not let them top in FC because they are too old..apparently we should do this for some elusive future reward

 

[Junaids]

If “youth” is so important then how come the “old” guys have succeeded over the young guys in the last 2 series?

They haven't.

Against proper teams in the last year, the standout performers in Tests have been

1. Faheem Ashraf
2. Mohammad Rizwan
3. Babar Azam

Abid Ali, Azhar Ali and Fawad Alam have done worse with the bat than Faheem Ashraf.

 

[daytrader]

Op is picking and choosing certain tests for his agenda. What about previous tests where Shadab and Faheem were playing? Both will probably be back for SENA series and that would bring down the average age of the playing XI

 

[TabishNator]

Are we really surprised with Misbah at the helm? I know he'd like us to believe he's not calling the shots but I don't buy that for a second.

 

[street cricketer]

While checking the scorecard for the current test yesterday, I somehow got the feeling that this must be one of the oldest teams that Pakistan have fielded in years.

So I opened my calculator and went about trying to determine the average age of the team. It came to around 29.7. To be honest, I expected it to be above 30+.

 

[Junaids]

While checking the scorecard for the current test yesterday, I somehow got the feeling that this must be one of the oldest teams that Pakistan have fielded in years.

So I opened my calculator and went about trying to determine the average age of the team. It came to around 29.7. To be honest, I expected it to be above 30+.

Not just that, it’s a massively under-strength Zimbabwe team too.

No Kyle Jarvis
No Craig Ervine
The Currans are playing for England

 

[Junaids]

Reading the replies really tells me that I have irreconcilable cultural differences with Indians and Pakistanis.

They have a deference towards age and seniority which I consider to be really dangerous in professional sport.

Pakistan has beaten a pathetic Zimbabwe team plus the weakest South African team for 70 years (at home).

And they have used geriatrics to do it.

Abid Ali, Azhar Ali and Fawad Aslam have failed most of the time outside Asia this last year. And now we expect them to do well away to South Africa in the next round of the World Test Championship!

It’s very very strange.

Meanwhile the likes of Saud Shakeel can’t get picked no matter what they achieve.

And a 36 year old fast bowler has debuted.

It’s total madness.

 

[Babu Bhaiya]

Having a few 30+ or close to 35 players in the side is fine if they are regulars or they are performing. But giving test caps to 35+ grandpas(add 2-3 years at least to their declared age) is atrocious.

What are you trying to achieve? They are most likely going to be discarded in 1-2 years. I'd have played Naseem or Hasnain against the likes of Zim or SL. Bowling along side Hassan Ali and Shaheen would have been a great experience for them.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Reading the replies really tells me that I have irreconcilable cultural differences with Indians and Pakistanis.

They have a deference towards age and seniority which I consider to be really dangerous in professional sport.

Pakistan has beaten a pathetic Zimbabwe team plus the weakest South African team for 70 years (at home).

And they have used geriatrics to do it.

Abid Ali, Azhar Ali and Fawad Aslam have failed most of the time outside Asia this last year. And now we expect them to do well away to South Africa in the next round of the World Test Championship!

It’s very very strange.

Meanwhile the likes of Saud Shakeel can’t get picked no matter what they achieve.

And a 36 year old fast bowler has debuted.

It’s total madness.

This is the Misbah age. And he was a geriatric himself. Joined the team at 35 years of age and played till he was 42.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Agreed!
Sajid, Abid, Fawad, nauman and Hassan Ali literally knocked the selection door down with their performances in FC. The poster seem to be suggesting that we should handcuff them and not let them top in FC because they are too old..apparently we should do this for some elusive future reward

Yeah that's nothing new from him. He makes a thread like this every few weeks. He stated months back that Fawad's place in the side needs to be reconsidered because of his age and because he has many too low scores between his centuries.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Reading the replies really tells me that I have irreconcilable cultural differences with Indians and Pakistanis.

They have a deference towards age and seniority which I consider to be really dangerous in professional sport.

Pakistan has beaten a pathetic Zimbabwe team plus the weakest South African team for 70 years (at home).

And they have used geriatrics to do it.

Abid Ali, Azhar Ali and Fawad Aslam have failed most of the time outside Asia this last year. And now we expect them to do well away to South Africa in the next round of the World Test Championship!

It’s very very strange.

Meanwhile the likes of Saud Shakeel can’t get picked no matter what they achieve.

And a 36 year old fast bowler has debuted.

It’s total madness.

What would be your ideal team to play the next test [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]?

 

[Yasir_ch]

I would dump all these oldies such as Abid Ali fawad alam Azhar Ali tabish khan.They are just not good enough.They will be embarrassed against top teams.

 

[TabishNator]

I would dump all these oldies such as Abid Ali fawad alam Azhar Ali tabish khan.They are just not good enough.They will be embarrassed against top teams.

Fawad and Azhar are hnot good? Lol. Tabish has played 1 match and looked really impressive...

 

[Shoaibbtt]

They haven't.

Against proper teams in the last year, the standout performers in Tests have been

1. Faheem Ashraf
2. Mohammad Rizwan
3. Babar Azam

Abid Ali, Azhar Ali and Fawad Alam have done worse with the bat than Faheem Ashraf.

I said last 2 series and you are running from my original statement, glad you ain’t a selector.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

I would dump all these oldies such as Abid Ali fawad alam Azhar Ali tabish khan.They are just not good enough.They will be embarrassed against top teams.

Top teams? Babar is young and go done by Zimbabwe and what was his performance against South Africa in the tests?

 

[AnonKB]

Tabish has played 1 match and looked really impressive...

I wonder how easy it is to impress you, because Tabish looked awful. He should retire after this match to save himself from further embarrassment.

 

[Junaids]

I said last 2 series and you are running from my original statement, glad you ain’t a selector.

Last two series?

Against a South Africa team of roughly Under-20 quality and a Zimbabwe team of Under-12 quality?

To me in such series it should be a sackable offence to select anyone aged over 30.

 

[Abid Z]

We all know that the World Test Championship is played in 2 year cycles. You would expect that teams would now be rebuilding for the 2021-2023 and 2023-2025 cycles.

Pakistan is leading the way with an innovative system. Never ones to leave things to chance, they are engaged in a systematic mission to refresh the team by replacing any players in danger of being in their peak years with ones whose peak was a decade ago.

It's a brave choice, but it is reaping serious rewards. The team is about to beat Zimbabwe, and is hotly tipped to beat Eritrea or Nicaragua if they are drawn against them in the World Test Championship.

Let's compare the age composition of the final Arthur/Inzamam Test team with the latest Misbah/Wasim Test team.

PLAYERS AGED UNDER 25
Arthur/Inzamam: 5 (and this was with Shaheen Shah Afridi being rested)
Misbah/Wasim: 1

PLAYERS AGED 25-29
Arthur/Inzamam: 3
Misbah/Wasim: 5

PLAYERS AGED 30-32
Arthur/Inzamam: 2
Misbah/Wasim: 0

PLAYERS AGED 33 AND ABOVE
Arthur/Inzamam: 1 (aged 33)
Misbah/Wasim: 5

It is so refreshing that Pakistan didn't waste a Test cap on Saud Shakeel, who is currently 25 years old and just had a superb domestic First Class season. Clearly he needs to be kept waiting until he is in decline, and then parachuted into the team.

Similarly, the bowling attack has been superbly refreshed by the debuts of a 34 year old spinner and a 36 year old medium pacer. Obviously by the time of the 2023 World Test Championship they will be peaking at the ages of 37 and 38 respectively.

Firstly you have an incredibly biased view on how cricket teams develop. It seems that no matter how much posters bash down your narrow and ethnocentric views you keep on harping about the same points. But as you bring up the point about age yet again let me tackle it point by point.

Firstly just look at this scorecard for context
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...and-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-63924/full-scorecard

It’s the one time I believe Pakistan took a really daring approach to inject mostly a youthful team in green conditions and it horribly backfired. It was misbah’s debut series and we all know how the careers of domestic giants Imran farhat faisal Iqbal, Sami went in the following few years.

Moral of the story injecting youth is no guarantee of future development.

The important point being that player development requires exposure over a period of time in a variety of conditions which our youth simply don’t get. It’s only when you’ve been a professional for a certain number of seasons that you get to play off your own back in New Zealand domestic or even somewhere in uk to gain experience. Poor old Fawad has been gracing Clitheroe for years.

Our players test specialists at least hardly play any matches. Just about 8-9 a year so they need all the experience they can get.

You induct youth in t20’s and Odi’s. For tests you want your most settled line up today and often that means minor tweaks in the lineup rather than regular wholesale changes. Most of our players have glaring flaws in their technique, heck even younis and Yousuf had massive problems early in their career but they had enough ability to tighten their technique. NOT ALL CAN DO THIS, despite promise and potential plus they’ve been living out of a suitcase for a decade whilst trying to provide for a family. Not all have family money.

You bring up Mickey and inzamam period to compare but this is flawed as it’s too close together. If Mickey introduced new young players, today with such few matches played in between they are still new. Babar, rizwan,, faheem, shaheen, are still quite new and inexperienced. When they get to about 30 tests or so you can say we have a youthful but experienced team.


Secondly you keep giving football comparisons. Its completely a different game where players are running up and down a pitch for 90 minutes. Cricket is far more sedate.

You keep giving examples of how players in UK OR AUS start thinking of retirement around mid 30’s and you regularly mention Alistair cook or ABD. But these players play county and then leagues and have an enormous number of matches in a calendar year plus have a life outside cricket with good sponsorship deals or business interests. They start young and can have a very full filled life after retirement with some of the best support available.

Pakistan players don’t have that luxury. After cricket and outside cricket they often have a very modest life. In cricket they are fighting the board and their own team as much as the opposition all whilst trying to provide for their family and have minimal support. If they are successful it’s despite the country and system not because of it.

So if a 35 year old turn up to bowl or bat provided he adds a little bit of solidity to the lineup whilst some youngster is developing in a shaheen tour I honestly don’t see what’s wrong with that. I would rather a young rookie was developing his game in England or new Zealand than being terrorised by Broad or Starc too early in his career.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Firstly you have an incredibly biased view on how cricket teams develop. It seems that no matter how much posters bash down your narrow and ethnocentric views you keep on harping about the same points. But as you bring up the point about age yet again let me tackle it point by point.

Firstly just look at this scorecard for context
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...and-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-63924/full-scorecard

It’s the one time I believe Pakistan took a really daring approach to inject mostly a youthful team in green conditions and it horribly backfired. It was misbah’s debut series and we all know how the careers of domestic giants Imran farhat faisal Iqbal, Sami went in the following few years.

Moral of the story injecting youth is no guarantee of future development.

The important point being that player development requires exposure over a period of time in a variety of conditions which our youth simply don’t get. It’s only when you’ve been a professional for a certain number of seasons that you get to play off your own back in New Zealand domestic or even somewhere in uk to gain experience. Poor old Fawad has been gracing Clitheroe for years.

Our players test specialists at least hardly play any matches. Just about 8-9 a year so they need all the experience they can get.

You induct youth in t20’s and Odi’s. For tests you want your most settled line up today and often that means minor tweaks in the lineup rather than regular wholesale changes. Most of our players have glaring flaws in their technique, heck even younis and Yousuf had massive problems early in their career but they had enough ability to tighten their technique. NOT ALL CAN DO THIS, despite promise and potential plus they’ve been living out of a suitcase for a decade whilst trying to provide for a family. Not all have family money.

You bring up Mickey and inzamam period to compare but this is flawed as it’s too close together. If Mickey introduced new young players, today with such few matches played in between they are still new. Babar, rizwan,, faheem, shaheen, are still quite new and inexperienced. When they get to about 30 tests or so you can say we have a youthful but experienced team.


Secondly you keep giving football comparisons. Its completely a different game where players are running up and down a pitch for 90 minutes. Cricket is far more sedate.

You keep giving examples of how players in UK OR AUS start thinking of retirement around mid 30’s and you regularly mention Alistair cook or ABD. But these players play county and then leagues and have an enormous number of matches in a calendar year plus have a life outside cricket with good sponsorship deals or business interests. They start young and can have a very full filled life after retirement with some of the best support available.

Pakistan players don’t have that luxury. After cricket and outside cricket they often have a very modest life. In cricket they are fighting the board and their own team as much as the opposition all whilst trying to provide for their family and have minimal support. If they are successful it’s despite the country and system not because of it.

So if a 35 year old turn up to bowl or bat provided he adds a little bit of solidity to the lineup whilst some youngster is developing in a shaheen tour I honestly don’t see what’s wrong with that. I would rather a young rookie was developing his game in England or new Zealand than being terrorised by Broad or Starc too early in his career.

There needs to be a proper transition period to allow for young players. However the top batsmen in the team Azhar and Babar are well into the team long enough to shoulder responsibility. The bowling attack does not have the luxury of being as experienced at the international level. But Shaheen has been around long enough to shoulder that responsibility. Hasan Ali too even though he's been out of favour the guy has played international cricket long enough.

It just shows the level of distrust Misbah has on the lineup. New players can make way so easily especially when they had the perfect opportunity playing against probably one of the worst test side of all time.

 

[Abid Z]

There needs to be a proper transition period to allow for young players. However the top batsmen in the team Azhar and Babar are well into the team long enough to shoulder responsibility. The bowling attack does not have the luxury of being as experienced at the international level. But Shaheen has been around long enough to shoulder that responsibility. Hasan Ali too even though he's been out of favour the guy has played international cricket long enough.

It just shows the level of distrust Misbah has on the lineup. New players can make way so easily especially when they had the perfect opportunity playing against probably one of the worst test side of all time.

Wow just look at all the cricketing cliches

“Transition period” transition from where to where? ..the Pakistan team is average playing very few matches a year. Probably half of what India or England will play. In this average team there are test specialists, azhar being one of them. Azhar can’t afford to sit out. Fawad can’t afford to sit out. The openers need experience. So who is left ? If youngsters need practice there are ODI series but wait when we see these so called bench strength they are nothing more than walking wickets. I would suggest that youngsters learn to “transition “ from being god awful to bang average then your point might have some merit.

“Shoulder responsibility “ this is another cricket cliche. It’s not about the desire to take on responsibility it’s having the ability to continually challenge batsmen and take wickets. SSA might get a five-for but it’s nowhere near as important as watching his skills. Firstly from over the wicket does he swing the ball away from RHB and the bring it in (not just seam it) Does he keep the ball consistently on a challenging line and length ? Does he waste the new ball.l? Is he good with the old ball?. How is he setting up set batsmen? All of these things matter and you have to be prepared to try out things in a match situation.

I don’t know if you play tennis or other racquet sports but it’s an apt comparison. If you have weaknesses like a weak backhand and keep playing against players better than you, you never get a chance to develop the reflexes in a game situation however much you practice. What is sometimes needed is weaker but competitive opponents to try out all you practice in training. This is why boxers even have sparring partners.

Sometimes even in a slow game like test cricket, one good ball can end your innings or match and months of practice comes to nothing. That’s why we have weaker opponents to practice and cement a line up then move then through the ranks against stronger opposition.

 

[Hasan123]

You can't really have a test team where 3/4 players will need replacing in a year or so. That's a big worry with this current team . We are still trying to replace Misbah and YK. And it looks like that process will be continuing in a year or so.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Not just that, it’s a massively under-strength Zimbabwe team too.

No Kyle Jarvis
No Craig Ervine
The Currans are playing for England

Hahah what?

By that approximation you should say Zimbabwe isn't full-strength because they don't have Colin de Grandhomme, Gary Ballance and Hilton Cartwright in their side

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Last two series?

Against a South Africa team of roughly Under-20 quality and a Zimbabwe team of Under-12 quality?

To me in such series it should be a sackable offence to select anyone aged over 30.

Wow your knowledge of cricket is poor, you think that the test squad from South Africa was under quality? If so what does that make Babar who managed only 1 fifty (if you wanna use your age argument) and furthermore what does that make Babar who struggled to make runs this series that even Shaheen had more than him?

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Hahah what?

By that approximation you should say Zimbabwe isn't full-strength because they don't have Colin de Grandhomme, Gary Ballance and Hilton Cartwright in their side

He must be thinking of a Zimbabwe team from an alternate universe that actually has The Currans playing for them. "The Currans" lol sounds like the worst sitcom ever.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] you have zero knowledge of cricket in my view, anyone that takes you seriously has something wrong with him. Honestly, stick to Bollywood or something else because honestly you have poor knowledge or cricket.

 

[Junaids]

Wow your knowledge of cricket is poor, you think that the test squad from South Africa was under quality? If so what does that make Babar who managed only 1 fifty (if you wanna use your age argument) and furthermore what does that make Babar who struggled to make runs this series that even Shaheen had more than him?

This South African team is the worst one ever to have played in Asia. Ever.

I have followed South African cricket for 45 years, and the cupboard has never been so bare. It’s only two years since they lost a Home Test series to Sri Lanka!

For geriatric Pakistanis to do well in home conditions against mediocre South Africans on pitches they are unused to really tells us nothing.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

This South African team is the worst one ever to have played in Asia. Ever.

I have followed South African cricket for 45 years, and the cupboard has never been so bare. It’s only two years since they lost a Home Test series to Sri Lanka!

For geriatric Pakistanis to do well in home conditions against mediocre South Africans on pitches they are unused to really tells us nothing.

So why didn't Babar score anything if it was a poor South African team?? Again mate think you are slightly losing the plot on cricket lol.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Fawad and Azhar are hnot good? Lol. Tabish has played 1 match and looked really impressive...

Wouldn't listen to that other guy, but I'm sorry Tabish was really struggling in his debut and managing only wicket was terrible along with being relatively expensive. I feel sorry for him but his time has passed, he didn't fail it was the PCB that failed him by not utilizing him at a younger age.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

I don't like Misbah at all, however, if you look at the following:

Abid Ali - 33
Imran Butt - 25
Azhar Ali - 36
Babar Azam - 26
Fawad Alam - 35
Sajid Khan - 27
Mohammad Rizwan - 28
Hassan Ali - 26
Nauman Ali - 34
Shaheen Afridi - 21
Tabish Khan - 36

average age = 29.72

If you consider that Tabish is unlikely to get more chances, and Abid's eventually gonna fail at some point, here is where Saud shakeel will come in and Faheem will most probably replace Tabish.

Abid Ali - Saud Shakeel = 33-25 = 8
Tabish - Faheem = 36 - 27 = 9

the average age becomes = 28.18

which is not bad at all. The majority of teams have about the same average age.

Consider India's 11 in the first test against Australia in december. They played a team with an average age of 30.45 with 8 players being over 30.

Test is not meant for experiments, test is meant for established domestic players to perform. Yes you can introduce a youngster here ane there, but that's about it.

 

[Titan24]

More than the average I am personally interested in the average age of the core group.

Core group of Pakistan in my eyes currently is (My opinion is backed by the fact that they play all 3 formats as well):

Babar Azam 26 years old (Captain as well)
Mohammad Rizwan (28 years old)
Shaheen Shah (21 years old)
Hasan Ali (26 years old)

Everyone else around is just a supporting player at the moment. In next 2-4 years these are the guys with experience under their belt will be shaping Pakistan team, neither the teenagers or early 20 guys nor the mid 30s guys. Yes, one can hope that guys like Imam, Faheem etc. or some other youngsters can stand up as well in years to come as they seem to shaping up decently as well.

Teams struggle when their core group retires or is in decline which is not the case with Pakistan as of now. Yes the core group of players will need experience and hopefully if they all remain fit they will be on top of their game in 2-4 years time.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

The average age of the youthful India that had beaten the aussies in the final test last time they toured there was 28.00 they had a lot of youngsters because of injuries.

We have a lot of youngsters in the team already that are trying to establish themselves: Imran Butt, Hassan Ali, Shaheen Shah, I would could Sajid Babar and Faheem in it as well. Over half of your squad has not played even 30 tests, why would you want to bring more inexperienced players.

Yes we all want Saud Shakeel, but where will he play? the middle order is pretty set, who would you drop? We had Kamran Ghulam but where would have he played? Saud Shakeel should be in the team, but all these players should be backups and ready for their chance.

As I said earlier, Abid will most likely fail and so will Imran butt (hope not he is a wonderful fielder). We have youngsters for that, then Saud can bat at 3 with Azhar opening the innings. But at this moment of time, I really don't think there is any space for new talent to come in, especially when your main XI doesn't have many tests under their belt

 

[Titan24]

This South African team is the worst one ever to have played in Asia. Ever.

There are no facts or stats to suggest that it was worse than the SA team that toured India in 2019. I get your point regarding SA cricket as a whole but then quality has declined in a lot of other countries as well, it would be harsh to only consider performances against Eng, Aus or NZ and not rate any other performance at home and sometimes away as well when there is nothing anybody can do about the declining quality of cricket in some countries.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

There are no facts or stats to suggest that it was worse than the SA team that toured India in 2019. I get your point regarding SA cricket as a whole but then quality has declined in a lot of other countries as well, it would be harsh to only consider performances against Eng, Aus or NZ and not rate any other performance at home and sometimes away as well when there is nothing anybody can do about the declining quality of cricket in some countries.

I wouldn't underestimate or downplay some of their players like RVD, Dean Elgar, Rabada, Ngidi, Nortje, Mahraj, Markram and others, anyone would be a fool to think these guys are no good.

 

[Titan24]

I wouldn't underestimate or downplay some of their players like RVD, Dean Elgar, Rabada, Ngidi, Nortje, Mahraj, Markram and others, anyone would be a fool to think these guys are no good.

They are obviously good but, question is how good currently? Rabada is a modern day great in test under making so there is no doubt about him being in the top tier however other than that as of now they are all mid tier performers and that is represented in the ranking of SA as well. Dean Elgar is the most experienced player in the SA squad currently (After the retirement of Faf from tests) and is in his peak and his peak is nowhere near the peak of experienced players in other teams. Yes he is a decent test opener in his own right however his stats outside of SA are pretty ordinary.

Rassie again is quality but, is 31 and already playing around his peak so a solid support player to have but can he become a world class performer from here will have to be seen (I think he had the temperament but came into the team pretty late). Nortje is definitely a player to watch out for in next 3-4 years if he can carry on the way he started. Mahraj is a decent spinner but, again not someone who can make the difference in the team with regards to it being a mid tier or top tier neverthless, a very handy player to have in tests.

Markram, Malan, Ngidi and Nortje or some other support players, out of them atleast 2-3 players will have to be in that world class zone for SA to become a top test unit once again in years to come. Currently only Rabada is in that category while QDK is a decent keeper/batsman to have in tests (Nothing earth shattering) and thats about it.

If you have good players, you can become a decent team (Around mid tier, sometimes maybe pushing for more) however, obviously to become a world class team you need world class players. At the moment in test cricket SA just have Rabada while rest are also good players but, not world class. Compare it to the team SA had in early 2010s you will see quite a few world class players from top to bottom. Yes, some of the guys have potential but not everyone with potential becomes a world class player and how many from current SA lot can become will have to be seen.

 

[Zaz]

I dont agree with junaids

There needs to be a steady blend of experience and potential backed by performance not just talent and a young age

Yes im not in favour of 35 yr olds debuting But id rather that then a 19 yr old who doesnt know which end of the bat to hold

Like a poster said What matters most is winning Whether you get there by that direction or that It doesnt matter You keep an eye on the future and plan for it but you dont plan for tmrw and forget today

Ideally you want players in their mid 20s debuting who have had 4-5 yrs of solid fc experience behind them and players in their mid to late 30s retiring
So a team never is going through a rebuilding phase which would adversely affect results

We have seen what throwing young players in the deep end can to not only their careers but also the team results A balance is needed

 

[Shoaibbtt]

They are obviously good but, question is how good currently? Rabada is a modern day great in test under making so there is no doubt about him being in the top tier however other than that as of now they are all mid tier performers and that is represented in the ranking of SA as well. Dean Elgar is the most experienced player in the SA squad currently (After the retirement of Faf from tests) and is in his peak and his peak is nowhere near the peak of experienced players in other teams. Yes he is a decent test opener in his own right however his stats outside of SA are pretty ordinary.

Rassie again is quality but, is 31 and already playing around his peak so a solid support player to have but can he become a world class performer from here will have to be seen (I think he had the temperament but came into the team pretty late). Nortje is definitely a player to watch out for in next 3-4 years if he can carry on the way he started. Mahraj is a decent spinner but, again not someone who can make the difference in the team with regards to it being a mid tier or top tier neverthless, a very handy player to have in tests.

Markram, Malan, Ngidi and Nortje or some other support players, out of them atleast 2-3 players will have to be in that world class zone for SA to become a top test unit once again in years to come. Currently only Rabada is in that category while QDK is a decent keeper/batsman to have in tests (Nothing earth shattering) and thats about it.

If you have good players, you can become a decent team (Around mid tier, sometimes maybe pushing for more) however, obviously to become a world class team you need world class players. At the moment in test cricket SA just have Rabada while rest are also good players but, not world class. Compare it to the team SA had in early 2010s you will see quite a few world class players from top to bottom. Yes, some of the guys have potential but not everyone with potential becomes a world class player and how many from current SA lot can become will have to be seen.

They are still a stellar team in my view, the reason why they lost the series was down to bad captaincy from a captain who clearly didn't care.

 

[Farabi]

I don't like Misbah at all, however, if you look at the following:

Abid Ali - 33
Imran Butt - 25
Azhar Ali - 36
Babar Azam - 26
Fawad Alam - 35
Sajid Khan - 27
Mohammad Rizwan - 28
Hassan Ali - 26
Nauman Ali - 34
Shaheen Afridi - 21
Tabish Khan - 36

average age = 29.72

If you consider that Tabish is unlikely to get more chances, and Abid's eventually gonna fail at some point, here is where Saud shakeel will come in and Faheem will most probably replace Tabish.

Abid Ali - Saud Shakeel = 33-25 = 8
Tabish - Faheem = 36 - 27 = 9

the average age becomes = 28.18

which is not bad at all. The majority of teams have about the same average age.

Consider India's 11 in the first test against Australia in december. They played a team with an average age of 30.45 with 8 players being over 30.

Test is not meant for experiments, test is meant for established domestic players to perform. Yes you can introduce a youngster here ane there, but that's about it.

POTW - great homework.
[MENTION=291]junaid[/MENTION] kindly respond to this.
It seems that Pakistan team’s average of 28/29 is lower than the Indian team that beat Australia who were averaging 30ish
Should India drop the team?
“Test team is not meant for experiments, test is meant for established domestic players to perform” . Well said

 

[Shoaibbtt]

POTW - great homework.
[MENTION=291]junaid[/MENTION] kindly respond to this.
It seems that Pakistan team’s average of 28/29 is lower than the Indian team that beat Australia who were averaging 30ish
Should India drop the team?
“Test team is not meant for experiments, test is meant for established domestic players to perform” . Well said

Age should never be a factor and what matters is performance and realising where are your weak links.

In actuality though some of the players do lie about their age, i mean no way is Numan 34 in my view lol he's at least in his forties or late 30s same goes with Tabish.

 

[Farabi]

Age should never be a factor and what matters is performance and realising where are your weak links.

In actuality though some of the players do lie about their age, i mean no way is Numan 34 in my view lol he's at least in his forties or late 30s same goes with Tabish.

Yup! What matters is SKILLS.
Posters citing international teams as examples and asking for younger talent are totally disconnected with Pakistan's ground realities. Aus/Eng/NZ/INDIA have a world-class player development infrastructure grounds-up. Players have clear pathways starting from school cricket to national teams with access to professional coaching, guidance and competitive cricket. They also get ton of A games to hone their crafts, and even then, the average age of the national team is hovering around 28-30.
On the other hand, the development of Pakistani players is much slower because Pakistan does not have a great player development infrastructure. Clearly most of the players are peaking/blooming in their 30s after playing FC for 5-10 years where they get relatively better coaching and play competitive cricket.
Mickey Arthur tried building a younger team but too many players did not have the skills to succeed and they were learning on the job, which meant that they were losing. Losing is never great for confidence and team-building. You want to introduce younger talent when the team is winning and the youngsters are not under pressure.
Sure, for long-term goals, the skill-development can be accelerated with investment in grass-root level (school/college cricket, age-cricket etc.) But until that happens, the only way Pakistan can compete in test cricket is with rewarding players who are ready with the skills to succeed in test cricket agnostic of age.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Yup! What matters is SKILLS.
Posters citing international teams as an examples and asking for younger talent are totally disconnected with Pakistan's ground realities. Aus/Eng/NZ/INDIA have a world-class player development infrastructure grounds-up. Players have clear pathways starting from school cricket to national teams with access to professional coaching, guidance and competitive cricket. They also get ton of A games to hone their crafts, and even then, the average age of the national team is hovering around 28-30.
On the other hand, the development of Pakistani players is much slower because Pakistan does not have a great player development infrastructure. Clearly most of the players are peaking/blooming in their 30s after playing FC for 5-10 years where they get relatively better coaching and play competitive cricket.
Mickey Arthur tried building a younger team but too many players did not have the skills to succeed and they were learning on the job, which meant that they were losing. Losing is never great for confidence and team-building.
The skill-development can be accelerated with investment in grass-root level (school/college cricket, age-cricket etc.) But until that happens, the only way Pakistan can compete in test cricket is with rewarding players who are ready with the skills to succeed in test cricket agnostic of age.

I mean i wouldn't pay attention to anything Junaids say because i'm sorry he has an issue about old (established players). He came up with a team of youngsters the other day which was beyond laughable.

I've said it tonnes of times about Pakistan's poor development and how they should be arranging more A tours.

The only issue i have with our current test batch is the openers other than that i'm fairly happy with our playing XI.

 

[Saj]

I think also take some of the ages with a pinch of salt.

Some of them I would add 3 or 4 years to their listed age

 

[TabishNator]

Wouldn't listen to that other guy, but I'm sorry Tabish was really struggling in his debut and managing only wicket was terrible along with being relatively expensive. I feel sorry for him but his time has passed, he didn't fail it was the PCB that failed him by not utilizing him at a younger age.

Bro it was his debut and the has been sitting on the bench for months which explains why he was a bit rusty. You need to rewatch his first over and see how he set up the batsman. The accuracy and lateral movement was very impressive. It's quite clear he is a very skillful individual. All I'm saying is, reserve your judgement until you've seen him in a couple of more matches and in conditions that are a bit more helpful.

 

[Forum363]

More than the average I am personally interested in the average age of the core group.

Core group of Pakistan in my eyes currently is (My opinion is backed by the fact that they play all 3 formats as well):

Babar Azam 26 years old (Captain as well)
Mohammad Rizwan (28 years old)
Shaheen Shah (21 years old)
Hasan Ali (26 years old)

Everyone else around is just a supporting player at the moment. In next 2-4 years these are the guys with experience under their belt will be shaping Pakistan team, neither the teenagers or early 20 guys nor the mid 30s guys. Yes, one can hope that guys like Imam, Faheem etc. or some other youngsters can stand up as well in years to come as they seem to shaping up decently as well.

Teams struggle when their core group retires or is in decline which is not the case with Pakistan as of now. Yes the core group of players will need experience and hopefully if they all remain fit they will be on top of their game in 2-4 years time.

Agree with this.

The core of Pakistan across all formats for hopefully the next decade are Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen.

Then you have a second group of players who could step up in the form of Imam, Faheem and Shadab.

Hassan has been in the second group but seems to be jumping up to the top but it’s early days.

I don’t mind the likes of Azhar, Fawad, Nauman, Abid being around the rest team for the next couple of years but there should’ve some plan around phasing them out and providing exposure to the likes of Saud and Salahuddin etc.

 

[Yasir_ch]

Fawad and Azhar are hnot good? Lol. Tabish has played 1 match and looked really impressive...

Azhar is alright for now but certainly not that other guy fawad or whatever he is.He only scores once in a series just like that Asad shafiq who is the worst player ever to play more than 70 tests.
LOL tabish trundler is impressive.hahahaha.that's funny.

 

[shamaan]

Reading the replies really tells me that I have irreconcilable cultural differences with Indians and Pakistanis.

They have a deference towards age and seniority which I consider to be really dangerous in professional sport.

Pakistan has beaten a pathetic Zimbabwe team plus the weakest South African team for 70 years (at home).

And they have used geriatrics to do it.

Abid Ali, Azhar Ali and Fawad Aslam have failed most of the time outside Asia this last year. And now we expect them to do well away to South Africa in the next round of the World Test Championship!

It’s very very strange.

Meanwhile the likes of Saud Shakeel can’t get picked no matter what they achieve.

And a 36 year old fast bowler has debuted.

It’s total madness.

The only player who warrants a a position in the team is saud.

Dahani,irfanullah,Abdullah are to raw and need more exposure in domestic in the longer format

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Bro it was his debut and the has been sitting on the bench for months which explains why he was a bit rusty. You need to rewatch his first over and see how he set up the batsman. The accuracy and lateral movement was very impressive. It's quite clear he is a very skillful individual. All I'm saying is, reserve your judgement until you've seen him in a couple of more matches and in conditions that are a bit more helpful.

We’ll see I mean certainly you could say it’s nerves and maybe you can say give him a game in the WI where it will offer more to quicker bowlers and the Dukes will be utilised.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Azhar is alright for now but certainly not that other guy fawad or whatever he is.He only scores once in a series just like that Asad shafiq who is the worst player ever to play more than 70 tests.
LOL tabish trundler is impressive.hahahaha.that's funny.

Mate all you are is quite deluded. Scoring 3 hundreds in 3 series is a good achievement. In all 3 situations he’s made a hundred in a pressure situation he’s much more valuable than Asad Shafiq is. Go check your facts before you bring your personal agenda to the table, you’ve honestly spoken like a part time fan which I’m guessing you are.

 

[Saj]

I've never really been too bothered about the age of a player as long as he can perform and is fit enough for international cricket.

Misbah and Younis were freaks of nature really the way they kept on going despite their age.

 

[Farabi]

The only player who warrants a a position in the team is saud.

Dahani,irfanullah,Abdullah are to raw and need more exposure in domestic in the longer format

It’s easy to criticize but harder to offer genuine solutions. Agreed about Saud but where?

1. No it doesn’t make sense to make Azhar open and play Saud at 3. That unsettling 2 players. Azhar Ali was struggling as an opener. He is averaging 55+ in no3 slot since 2020 and he brings a wealth of experience for that slot. He’s the only experienced campaigner in this line-up and is all set to score 8k+ runs @45 average. I won’t touch Azhar Ali.

2. Saud’s scored his runs at #4 and #5 and his strength is playing spin, specially in 2nd innings. Those spots are currently taken up by Babar and Fawad, who are both doing well.

3. With Fahim performing as a batting all rounder, it makes no sense to extend the batting and add Saud as a specialist 4 down before Rizwan. That disturbs the balance and really weakens the bowling and Pak’s struggled to take 20 wickets lately.

4. Please not opening. That’s how you destroy careers for debutants.

For this reason, Saud has to wait until someone’s performance dips or injuries happen. Test cricket anyway is about creating settled line-ups specially when Pak plays 7 games a year.

 

[Nasty Naz]

It’s easy to criticize but harder to offer genuine solutions. Agreed about Saud but where?

1. No it doesn’t make sense to make Azhar open and play Saud at 3. That unsettling 2 players. Azhar Ali was struggling as an opener. He is averaging 55+ in no3 slot since 2020 and he brings a wealth of experience for that slot. He’s the only experienced campaigner in this line-up and is all set to score 8k+ runs @45 average. I won’t touch Azhar Ali.

2. Saud’s scored his runs at #4 and #5 and his strength is playing spin, specially in 2nd innings. Those spots are currently taken up by Babar and Fawad, who are both doing well.

3. With Fahim performing as a batting all rounder, it makes no sense to extend the batting and add Saud as a specialist 4 down before Rizwan. That disturbs the balance and really weakens the bowling and Pak’s struggled to take 20 wickets lately.

4. Please not opening. That’s how you destroy careers for debutants.

For this reason, Saud has to wait until someone’s performance dips or injuries happen. Test cricket anyway is about creating settled line-ups specially when Pak plays 7 games a year.

Huh? Azhar's best run as was an opener before MisYou retired and he dropped down a spot to supposedly "stabilize" the middle order. It didn't work because for nearly 3 years, Azhar was completely awful and unplayable averaging 20's in that span. What it did over that time was weaken the team even further because your first 3 batsmen were walking wickets and Babar following them as he was struggling a lot earlier in his career.

At the time, it took a deserving spot away from Fawad because your middle order was Azhar/Haris/Babar/Shafiq and the same is happening now with Saud. Azhar should open and even if Saud at 3 isn't ideal, a good batsmen should be able to play anywhere. I wouldn't even mind Babar at 3 simply to keep him more focused by facing a newer ball. Far too often, he plays lazy shots and gets out early in Tests.

The excuses being used to not give Saud playing time is the same dumb stuff that was used to keep Fawad out of the squad. At least during those times, the team was very good in the Misbah era whereas it's been so poor since they retired. They need to find a way to play him and they need to start playing players in their prime and not bringing them back when they're old as hell and get by short-term because of a purple patch. You want long-term sustainability when building a Test team.

 

[Farabi]

Huh? Azhar's best run as was an opener before MisYou retired and he dropped down a spot to supposedly "stabilize" the middle order. It didn't work because for nearly 3 years, Azhar was completely awful and unplayable averaging 20's in that span. What it did over that time was weaken the team even further because your first 3 batsmen were walking wickets and Babar following them as he was struggling a lot earlier in his career.

At the time, it took a deserving spot away from Fawad because your middle order was Azhar/Haris/Babar/Shafiq and the same is happening now with Saud. Azhar should open and even if Saud at 3 isn't ideal, a good batsmen should be able to play anywhere. I wouldn't even mind Babar at 3 simply to keep him more focused by facing a newer ball. Far too often, he plays lazy shots and gets out early in Tests.

The excuses being used to not give Saud playing time is the same dumb stuff that was used to keep Fawad out of the squad. At least during those times, the team was very good in the Misbah era whereas it's been so poor since they retired. They need to find a way to play him and they need to start playing players in their prime and not bringing them back when they're old as hell and get by short-term because of a purple patch. You want long-term sustainability when building a Test team.

That Azhar Ali did well as an opener is a myth.
Azhar Ali averages more opening the batting than he does batting at number 3. It’s an example of how numbers can be deceiving. From October 2016 to March 2017, Azhar Ali opened the batting for Pakistan and had a dream run – 1256 runs at an average of 62.3 with four 100s and five 50s. It was a purple patch; the kind batsmen only get once in their careers. Any other time Azhar has opened the batting, he has accumulated 310 runs at a poor average of 22.1. In addition, Azhar as an opener is vulnerable early on; 48% of the time, he has been dismissed before crossing 15 runs.

Imran Butt’s FC average of 36 will always be brought up when comparing him to Pakistan’s other batting options. As usual, no consideration will be given to the fact that he is an opener in Pakistan’s domestic system, which is famously not kind on openers (Opener Average for QeAT 2020/21: 31). Or maybe the fact that only four openers have more domestic FC runs than him in the past six years, all four being at least five years older than him (the 4 being Imran Farhat, Khurram Manzoor, Israrullah, and Salman Butt).

 

[shamaan]

It’s easy to criticize but harder to offer genuine solutions. Agreed about Saud but where?

1. No it doesn’t make sense to make Azhar open and play Saud at 3. That unsettling 2 players. Azhar Ali was struggling as an opener. He is averaging 55+ in no3 slot since 2020 and he brings a wealth of experience for that slot. He’s the only experienced campaigner in this line-up and is all set to score 8k+ runs @45 average. I won’t touch Azhar Ali.

2. Saud’s scored his runs at #4 and #5 and his strength is playing spin, specially in 2nd innings. Those spots are currently taken up by Babar and Fawad, who are both doing well.

3. With Fahim performing as a batting all rounder, it makes no sense to extend the batting and add Saud as a specialist 4 down before Rizwan. That disturbs the balance and really weakens the bowling and Pak’s struggled to take 20 wickets lately.

4. Please not opening. That’s how you destroy careers for debutants.

For this reason, Saud has to wait until someone’s performance dips or injuries happen. Test cricket anyway is about creating settled line-ups specially when Pak plays 7 games a year.

Am not critising am just giving an opinion .

Azhar averaged above 45 when opening I no he had a few failures thier but averaging at 45 as a opener is very decent.hes the most experience he has the experience to blunt out the new ball.so I would move azhar to open am sure he would open if asked.am sure saud has batted at 3 azwell for his domestic team correct me if am wrong.

they should have given him the series against Zimbabwe but they didn't because if he did score that would put pressure on misbah and Babar.saud has stats to back him.