Occupied Kashmir dispute in UNSC focus after decades

[MenInG]

NEW YORK: In a major diplomatic breakthrough for Pakistan on an international level, the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) has granted the country's request to discuss India’s decision to revoke the special status of occupied Kashmir on Friday.

Speaking to reporters UNSC President Joanna Wronecka said, “The UNSC will discuss the Jammu and Kashmir situation behind closed doors most likely on August 16."

When asked about the timing of the meeting, Wronecka said, "Most probably on Friday as the Security Council would not operate on Thursday."

The council has taken up the issue of the critical situation in Indian-occupied Kashmir after almost 50 years.

On August 13, Pakistan had asked the UNSC for an urgent meeting to meet over India’s decision to revoke the special status of occupied Kashmir, the Himalayan region that has long been a flashpoint in ties between the nuclear-armed neighbours.

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi made the request in a letter to UNSC President Wronecka, seeking to participate in the meeting under the agenda item ‘India-Pakistan question’.

“Pakistan will not provoke a conflict. But India should not mistake our restraint for weakness,” Qureshi wrote in a letter to the UNSC.

“If India chooses to resort again to the use of force, Pakistan will be obliged to respond, in self-defence, with all its capabilities,” he said, adding that “in view of the dangerous implications” Pakistan requested the meeting.

China asks UNSC to discuss Kashmir this week: diplomats
China on Wednesday backed Pakistan’s request for UNSC to discuss India’s decision, asking for the body to meet behind closed doors on Thursday or Friday, diplomats said.

The August 5 decision by India blocks the right of occupied Kashmir to frame its own laws and allows non-residents to buy property there. Telephone lines, internet and television networks have been blocked and there are restrictions on movement and assembly.

The UNSC adopted several resolutions in 1948 and in the 1950s on the dispute between India and Pakistan over the region, including one which says a plebiscite should be held to determine the future of the disputed valley.

UN peacekeepers have been deployed since 1949 to observe a ceasefire between India and Pakistan in occupied Kashmir.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/244945-un-security-council-to-discuss-kashmir-issue-on-friday

 

[Slog]

This is the first time in almost 50 years that the Kashmir issue will be discussed in UNSC.

This is huge.

 

[Varun]

If the Kashmir issue is 'solved' on Friday, I will gift everyone on PP an e-cookie.

 

[MenInG]

If the Kashmir issue is 'solved' on Friday, I will gift everyone on PP an e-cookie.

Russia and US will veto - China will say something useful, Rest will probably abstain etc

Main point of this is to bring attention to the issue - not something India Govt want

 

[Hornbill]

If the Kashmir issue is 'solved' on Friday, I will gift everyone on PP an e-cookie.

Last month they discussed xinjiang powerful china couldn't stop it

 

[Varun]

Russia and US will veto - China will say something useful, Rest will probably abstain etc

Main point of this is to bring attention to the issue - not something India Govt want

Let's see what happens. All the countries know about it and no further introduction to Kashmir is needed, so this seems token to me.

 

[Professor]

Let's see what happens. All the countries know about it and no further introduction to Kashmir is needed, so this seems token to me.

Don’t think this will lead to too much but the Kashmir issue is way more mainstream now then it has ever been. It would be interesting how this goes.

 

[Asim_khan]

Don’t think this will lead to too much but the Kashmir issue is way more mainstream now then it has ever been. It would be interesting how this goes.

That's the issue, after 70 years, the issue has finally been mainstreamed and will be in the collective consicious of the world, all thanks to Modi and Imran Khan's efforts.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Russia and US will veto - China will say something useful, Rest will probably abstain etc

Main point of this is to bring attention to the issue - not something India Govt want

Its a discussion. Not a resolution. So question of veto wont arise till there is a resolution.

Sometime back Xinjiang was discussed too.. It hasnot changed anything.

 

[Varun]

That's the issue, after 70 years, the issue has finally been mainstreamed and will be in the collective consicious of the world, all thanks to Modi and Imran Khan's efforts.

The world already knew about Kashmir, especially the ones who will be at the Security Council meeting on Friday.

Nothing has changed, so nothing will happen is my guess.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What do posters mean by mainstream? Pakistan has brought up Kashmir many times in the UNGA.

 

[Slog]

What do posters mean by mainstream? Pakistan has brought up Kashmir many times in the UNGA.

It has not been discussed in the UNSC for 50 years and will get further international headlines and be under discussion further.

Lot of random things are brought up by many countries in the General Assembly but no discussions are held on it. Here a specific time is being allotted for members to discuss the issue which as you know not every issue is accorded

 

[loves_cricket]

Any sovereign country can change any laws within it's own borders which may be a disputed territory
What can UN do? Put sanctions on India?
In that case what about other permanent members of UNSC also involved in such similar issues for example China and Taiwan
GB and Gibraltar
India have only removed a temporary amendment with in it's own borders not attacked any other country
So far not allowing basic libraries like internet access etc to maintain law and order temporary measures are in place specially when president of neighbouring country openly threatens to wage jihad on India

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Hahahahaha lol lol now the atoooot ung & internal matter will be discussed among hundred countries.

 

[warcry]

The UN has one last chance to resolve this conflict. Otherwise Pakistan has no choice but to takes matters in its own hands and resolve kashmir 'unilaterally'. This could escalate pretty quickly and get very ugly and have worldwide consequences.


And if some parts of the world think that pakistan will just sit back and do nothing, and just watch as india continues to do holocast in kashmir, our people, then they are sadly mistaken.

 

[Manager101]

UN is a fake peace-keeping organization, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Ram Shekhar]

This is possibly one of the biggest diplomatic victories of Pakistan. Kashmir is now officially international. The secular side of me is actually happy that the poor Kashmiris are now being heard by the world.

 

[Zeeraq]

Kashmir returning to UNSC raises several legal questions

In view of China’s letter to the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) to discuss the Kashmir issue, experts and veteran diplomats are indicating that irrespective of the outcome, the discussion is a diplomatic landmark as the last time the most important U.N. organ discussed Kashmir was decades ago in 1971.

“Last of the Kashmir related resolutions came up in 1971 during the Bangladesh war which led to the Simla agreement. Following that, the issue was more or less kept away from international platforms,” said K. Natwar Singh, former External Affairs Minister.

UNSC Resolution 307 had taken up the Kashmir issue in the backdrop of the war of 1971 while demanding ceasefire between India and Pakistan.

A former diplomat who represented India at the U.N. pointed out the closed discussion will have to first address whether the current letter from China is suitable to be discussed under “India-Pakistan Questions”, a title which was used to discuss Kashmir since 1947-’48 till 1971. After the Simla Agreement of 1972, India had informed the U.N. about the treaty which had turned Kashmir into a bilateral subject.

“Therefore, the UNSC first of all has to discuss if the members have the legal space to deal with the subject at all under the “India-Pakistan Questions” as mentioned in the Chinese letter as U.N. was duly informed that India and Pakistan had termed Kashmir as a bilateral issue through a treaty,” the veteran diplomat said.

India has maintained that the August 5 decision to end the Special Status for Kashmir is a strictly bilateral affair which is not having any bearing on Pakistan. However, Pakistan has been carrying out an international campaign to take it to the UNSC once again. The role of China in this case has also come under spotlight as the letter from Beijing was sent a day after External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar returned from Beijing where he had met his counterpart Wang Yi and explained India’s official stance on the Kashmir issue. China had expressed unhappiness over the bifurcation of Jammu and Kashmir which led to the creation of a new Union Territory of Ladakh which hints at Indian claims over Aksai Chin that is part of the discussion on India-China Boundary Question.

Veteran diplomats say that a mention of Kashmir at this time in the UNSC is not a positive turn as it indicates that China is eager to pacify Pakistan’s concern and Russia, by not stopping the meeting, has indicated that it is not willing to play the role that it used to play during the 1970s and 1980s when the fear of the veto from Moscow under the Soviet Union was a significant deterrent for any Pakistani action at the UNSC on Kashmir.

Though Pakistan took up the issue in 1994 at the U.N. human rights body, during the tenure of Prime Minister Narasimha Rao, Kashmir did not figure under the India-Pakistan Questions since December 1971. It, therefore, needs to be seen how various member-countries make their respective moves on the lingering issue in the meeting at the U.N.


https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...l-questions/article29100088.ece?homepage=true

 

[Gullycricket]

But But Pak was isolated so how this happened?

 

[szundercover]

Nothing will comeout of the meeting.The un is the most useless organization in the world.Even my toilet is more useful than the un.

 

[Napa]

The UN has one last chance to resolve this conflict. Otherwise Pakistan has no choice but to takes matters in its own hands and resolve kashmir 'unilaterally'. <b>This could escalate pretty quickly and get very ugly and have worldwide consequences.</b>

And if some parts of the world think that pakistan will just sit back and do nothing, and just watch as india continues to do holocast in kashmir, our people, then they are sadly mistaken.

I assume you are threatening a nuclear war. Whatever they may say in public, I don't think Pakistani leaders are actually that crazy.

 

[Extra_Cover]

I assume you are threatening a nuclear war. Whatever they may say in public, I don't think Pakistani leaders are actually that crazy.

No one vouches for a nuclear war and honestly speaking nuclear war is never an option. But this does not mean that Pakistan would sit back and do nothing about atrocities that happens in Kashmir. First option is diplomatic route this is the route Pakistan is currently on and any developments from this route will be welcomed.

 

[cricketjoshila]

No one vouches for a nuclear war and honestly speaking nuclear war is never an option. But this does not mean that Pakistan would sit back and do nothing about atrocities that happens in Kashmir. First option is diplomatic route this is the route Pakistan is currently on and any developments from this route will be welcomed.

Nothing will come out of diplomatic route.

After that do you support Pakistan going to war with India?

 

[Extra_Cover]

Nothing will come out of diplomatic route.

After that do you support Pakistan going to war with India?

The way things panned out since February I'm kind of certain that Pakistan would not initiate a war with India. If some sort of conventional war or direct confrontation happens then it would be initiated by Modi's India.

All you have to do is look at what happened in February. Indian planes came to Pakistan first and then came the dossier from India. I mean how embarrassing is that in the first place.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Good news.

UNSC discussing this means they have no choice but to take notice. It wont come to any resolutions tabled but the big powers will realise how serious this is and what it can escalate to, they have been warned.

China will speak on the same page as Pakistan, it's as near as possible for Pakistan to have it's own seat on the UNSC.

India will never be a UNSC member.

 

[warcry]

Nothing will come out of diplomatic route.

After that do you support Pakistan going to war with India?

yes. absolutely. there is no alternative left.

 

[Pete Rose]

Raise the issue, highlight the upcoming pogroms (if they dont come, great) and the local militancy and move on.
The only ppl who will be writing gleeful articles of the whole thing being a farce will be our useful idiots (haqqani etc) and the rent-a-line clowns like Gupta and Dutt.

 

[Pete Rose]

yes. absolutely. there is no alternative left.

dont be daft. we are not going to war and we shouldnt. there's an idiot running the country next door who has them thinking "its their time". Let them manage the destruction themselves.

 

[warcry]

dont be daft. we are not going to war and we shouldnt. there's an idiot running the country next door who has them thinking "its their time". Let them manage the destruction themselves.

this is the message needed to be conveyed to the great powers in the UNSC.
either resolve kashmir, or we go on and resolve it ourselves, and only they can prevent the situation form escalating further.

furthermore, there is no point in dialogue with india on any level, as they are calling kashmir an internal issue, which contradicts all UN resolutions on kashmir, the Simla agreement as well as the Lahore resolution, which consider kashmir as disputed territory.

which leaves war as the only option left.

I suggest all peace loving people from both sides of the border pray that the United Nations step in and force India out of occupied J&K for they are the only organization capable of preventing the current situation from escalating further.

 

[Pete Rose]

this is the message needed to be conveyed to the great powers in the UNSC.
either resolve kashmir, or we go on and resolve it ourselves, and only they can prevent the situation form escalating further.

furthermore, there is no point in dialogue with india on any level, as they are calling kashmir an internal issue, which contradicts all UN resolutions on kashmir, the Simla agreement as well as the Lahore resolution, which consider kashmir as disputed territory.

which leaves war as the only option left.

I suggest all peace loving people from both sides of the border pray that the United Nations step in and force India out of occupied J&K for they are the only organization capable of preventing the current situation from escalating further.

Not in my name.

 

[rhony]

"Closed door" meeting. Well...China requested it. They don't want nobody talking about Hong Kong I guess. Everybody will claim victory in a day with nothing changing.

 

[Major]

I think this is good. Atleast now this issue is not only being discussed. Now its going to get the international attention that it deserves.

The Kashmir issue never got the international attention and that is what India always wanted. They kept there rant on Kashmir being an internal matter.

Now after this all eyes would be on Russia if they will use veto which they will do in future i think

 

[rhony]

this is the message needed to be conveyed to the great powers in the UNSC.
either resolve kashmir, or we go on and resolve it ourselves, and only they can prevent the situation form escalating further.

furthermore, there is no point in dialogue with india on any level, as they are calling kashmir an internal issue, which contradicts all UN resolutions on kashmir, the Simla agreement as well as the Lahore resolution, which consider kashmir as disputed territory.

which leaves war as the only option left.

I suggest all peace loving people from both sides of the border pray that the United Nations step in and force India out of occupied J&K for they are the only organization capable of preventing the current situation from escalating further.

But how? US will not allow you. China will not allow you. All your big daddies have their own reasons but they won't allow you. US and China want US to get out of Afg. Your war effort with 6 bil in the bank won't solve any purpose. The other danger is India taking Skardu and the rest of the Gilgit while big daddies say "Ceasefire" after it's done. What will you do then? No one's launching any nukes. We all know that. Think a bit before your "warcry"

 

[Runner Up]

Any sovereign country can change any laws within it's own borders which may be a disputed territory
What can UN do? Put sanctions on India?
In that case what about other permanent members of UNSC also involved in such similar issues for example China and Taiwan
GB and Gibraltar
India have only removed a temporary amendment with in it's own borders not attacked any other country
So far not allowing basic libraries like internet access etc to maintain law and order temporary measures are in place specially when president of neighbouring country openly threatens to wage jihad on India

India removed a temporary arrangement without the consent of stakeholders. This is the issue.

It is very strange that India made a promise with Kashmiri people that they will have a special status and now betrayed the people of Kashmir after arresting all the big names. How long they can put them behind the bar? what will happen when the curfew is lifted and connections are restored . Will the young Kashmiris accept the decision? I don't think so.

 

[Major]

Guys at what time will the results of the discussion be shared? I think this going to be quite historical because for us this is the last effort from the country going into war

If the discussion fails, then i would assume next step would be war by Pakistan

 

[Abdullah719]

Guys at what time will the results of the discussion be shared? I think this going to be quite historical because for us this is the last effort from the country going into war

If the discussion fails, then i would assume next step would be war by Pakistan

Calm down, no.

 

[rhony]

India removed a temporary arrangement without the consent of stakeholders. This is the issue.

It is very strange that India made a promise with Kashmiri people that they will have a special status and now betrayed the people of Kashmir after arresting all the big names. How long they can put them behind the bar? what will happen when the curfew is lifted and connections are restored . Will the young Kashmiris accept the decision? I don't think so.

Well..did anybody promise Kashmir to Pakistan? The king acceeded to India, the party with the majority agreed to that. Pakistan occupied it. So, don't talk about promises. Article 370 is not an international. It's an Indian law and they repealed it with a parliament majority. Pakistan never accepted 370 then why complain now?

 

[Savak]

UNSC is as useless as the UN itself. Name me one conflict, war crimes it has helped to resolve and prevent since the end of the Second World War.

Kashmir problem has existed for a good 72 years and is unlikely to be resolved any time soon.

 

[Major]

Well..did anybody promise Kashmir to Pakistan? The king acceeded to India, the party with the majority agreed to that. Pakistan occupied it. So, don't talk about promises. Article 370 is not an international. It's an Indian law and they repealed it with a parliament majority. Pakistan never accepted 370 then why complain now?

again, go read about Junagadh

 

[rhony]

UNSC is as useless as the UN itself. Name me one conflict, war crimes it has helped to resolve and prevent since the end of the Second World War.

Kashmir problem has existed for a good 72 years and is unlikely to be resolved any time soon.

It is useless. Yes, they did squat so far. Kashmir problem is already solved. Atleast J&K. It's AJK and Gilgit that are in limbo.

 

[AdamM97]

It is useless. Yes, they did squat so far. Kashmir problem is already solved. Atleast J&K. It's AJK and Gilgit that are in limbo.

Solved?? Loool.

 

[rhony]

again, go read about Junagadh

Yes Nizam too. You never withdrew your forces to allow the plebiscite. There is a reason for that. People were pro India then. That's precisely the reason why tribals were sent to capture. Azadi was never on the table then. It was to go either with India and Pakistan. Despite being a Muslim majority, they didn't go with Pakistan and were stubborn. Once you attacked and made a self goal, they had no choice. Even now, you haven't withdrawn your forces by the way and it's 70 years.

 

[rhony]

Solved?? Loool.

What does "Internal issue" mean. 3 out of 5 in the UNSC are with India. US and Russia said it's an internal matter of India. France is with India. UK might make a statement but they are not against India in this. Chinese have asked for a closed door meeting so they won't be embarrassed if somebody asks them about uighurs or Hong Kong or tibet. They are dummies. So yes, it's solved.

 

[Runner Up]

Well..did anybody promise Kashmir to Pakistan? The king acceeded to India, the party with the majority agreed to that. Pakistan occupied it. So, don't talk about promises. Article 370 is not an international. It's an Indian law and they repealed it with a parliament majority. Pakistan never accepted 370 then why complain now?

I did not mention Pakistan. I asked about promises made by India with Kashmiris. Also plz must tell what will happen after the curfew is lifted?

 

[AdamM97]

What does "Internal issue" mean. 3 out of 5 in the UNSC are with India. US and Russia said it's an internal matter of India. France is with India. UK might make a statement but they are not against India in this. Chinese have asked for a closed door meeting so they won't be embarrassed if somebody asks them about uighurs or Hong Kong or tibet. They are dummies. So yes, it's solved.

If anything, India has complicated this issue further, especially for themselves. This move by Modi government has only angered the Kashmiri population. You’re being way too optimistic if you believe that Kashmir will become more peaceful and integrated after this. Imo, India could’ve easily ’solved’ the Kashmir issue had they taken a more pacifist and soft approach. Many Indians were chest-thumping after demonetization and see how that turned out.

 

[rhony]

I did not mention Pakistan. I asked about promises made by India with Kashmiris. Also plz must tell what will happen after the curfew is lifted?

Did kashmiris keep their promise? They misused the autonomy with Azadi chants and terrorism. There was no way India would give Azadi to kashmir by default. Why will they? King acceeded. The second step was plebisite and Pak never withdrew. This was a move to clip the wings that Kashmiris misused. The curfiew will be lifted eventually when it is safe for the kashmiris. You can't stone the army and expect a bed of roses in return. India will assess it's internal security threats and make a decision. I think there might be some international.pressure on this aspect so Indians will make a move shortly

 

[rhony]

If anything, India has complicated this issue further, especially for themselves. This move by Modi government has only angered the Kashmiri population. You’re being way too optimistic if you believe that Kashmir will become more peaceful and integrated after this. Imo, India could’ve easily ’solved’ the Kashmir issue had they taken a more pacifist and soft approach. Many Indians were chest-thumping after demonetization and see how that turned out.

You think Kashmiris were peaceful before? It was always a dump with religious extremism masquerading as Azadi beat. However, state government was always a hindrance for everything. Now it isn't. There are a lot of moves in the coming days that will neutralize the situation. Peace is secondary. The first step is to make sure kashmiris lose the hope. They will realize. Then there will demographic changes etc. Lots more to come. 800k army can take care of terrorists and the ones that get through will be used by India for nailing their enemies.

 

[Runner Up]

Did kashmiris keep their promise? They misused the autonomy with Azadi chants and terrorism. There was no way India would give Azadi to kashmir by default. Why will they? King acceeded. The second step was plebisite and Pak never withdrew. This was a move to clip the wings that Kashmiris misused. The curfiew will be lifted eventually when it is safe for the kashmiris. You can't stone the army and expect a bed of roses in return. India will assess it's internal security threats and make a decision. I think there might be some international.pressure on this aspect so Indians will make a move shortly

But leaders like Farooq Abdullah, Mehbooba Mufti and Umar Abdullah are pro indian yet they are under arrest. Don't you think India made more enemies now? and again peace will never return in the region unless India wins the hearts of Kashmiris which I doubt will never happen. Also thanks to Modi for internationalizing the issue.

 

[Pete Rose]

Guys at what time will the results of the discussion be shared? I think this going to be quite historical because for us this is the last effort from the country going into war

If the discussion fails, then i would assume next step would be war by Pakistan

Why would we go to war? How does this equation even work. Freedom for Kashmiris or scorched earth. I am glad that for once in their life the military establishment in this country is exercising restraint.

 

[rhony]

But leaders like Farooq Abdullah, Mehbooba Mufti and Umar Abdullah are pro indian yet they are under arrest. Don't you think India made more enemies now? and again peace will never return in the region unless India wins the hearts of Kashmiris which I doubt will never happen. Also thanks to Modi for internationalizing the issue.

They are the real traitors. They stole billions from the center with not much development. They were Congress stooges and BJP exposed them. India will win the hearts of next generation kashmiris. The same way Pakistan won the hearts of extremist kashmiris in the 90s. The choice is with the current gen to die or to live free or to live in a cage. Modi, RSS and BJP always wanted to internationalize kashmir issue. Why wouldn't they? India has accession letter and they want Gilgit. For years we all heard that Pak will go nuclear on Kashmir issue. Modi finally called Pak's bluff. Indian diplomacy went on an over drive to gather support. A few enthusiastic reporters will talk about atrocities but they've been talking about Palestine for ages with no result. Uighurs are soon to be new age version of Muslims with life skills apparently and nobody batted an eyelid. If you think people sitting in their houses playing ping pong is a jail, think about a million Muslims in concentration camps. Nobody cared about that too. Kashmir will be internationalized further with Gilgit on deck.

 

[Bhaijaan]

It is a huge diplomatic set back for Modi and another world cup for Imran Khan.

What will Modi do next now thst Kashmir is internationalised successfully by Imran Khan.

Always remember Modi has ego.

 

[troodon]

It is a huge diplomatic set back for Modi and another world cup for Imran Khan.

What will Modi do next now thst Kashmir is internationalised successfully by Imran Khan.

Always remember Modi has ego.

Nothing will happen. World will know more about Kashmir. That still means nothing.

India will do what it wants in its land and no country has the right to say or do anything about it. May be lip service. But it means Zilch.
Not even Islamic countries outside of Pakistan and may be Iran had said anything about it. Arabs are busy making multi billion dollar deals with India.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Nothing will happen. World will know more about Kashmir. That still means nothing.

India will do what it wants in its land and no country has the right to say or do anything about it. May be lip service. But it means Zilch.
Not even Islamic countries outside of Pakistan and may be Iran had said anything about it. Arabs are busy making multi billion dollar deals with India.

Question is what will Modi's ego drive him to do next.

The angrier Imran makes him the more will.Modi make him suffer.

Remember what Modi did to Rahul Gandhi. He has to fight from Wayanad now.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Nothing will happen. World will know more about Kashmir. That still means nothing.

India will do what it wants in its land and no country has the right to say or do anything about it. May be lip service. But it means Zilch.
Not even Islamic countries outside of Pakistan and may be Iran had said anything about it. Arabs are busy making multi billion dollar deals with India.

I think you are getting kind of oblivious to reality. The only true superpowers that can get away with committing atrocities are US, Russia and to a certain degree now China. India is not in this league yet so any human rights violations by Indian State can have repercussions.

 

[Major]

Why would we go to war? How does this equation even work. Freedom for Kashmiris or scorched earth. I am glad that for once in their life the military establishment in this country is exercising restraint.

After the UN discussion fails, after Russia uses Veto, then what will be the next step?

 

[Hitman]

After the UN discussion fails, after Russia uses Veto, then what will be the next step?

And what if India cancels the Indus Water Treaty after Pakistan initiates a war? You think India will keep watching like a dummy?

 

[Icon]

And what if India cancels the Indus Water Treaty after Pakistan initiates a war? You think India will keep watching like a dummy?

Read this:
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/512336-india-making-indus-waters-treaty-ineffective

 

[Pete Rose]

After the UN discussion fails, after Russia uses Veto, then what will be the next step?

Whats important here is to keep perspective and to use the Israeli-Palestinian issue as a guide. For decades Arab countries paid lip service (and financial aid) to the idea of Palestinian statehood. They didnt have the capability, means, or desire to resolve the issue though force and neither did they allow Palestinians to enter in to agreements with compromises two decades ago. Its pointless to compromise now since they have nothing left to trade. Understandably the Gulf states now have different security and economic priorities so they've all but abandoned the cause. What happens next is still to be seen, but barring the massive loss of US influence in the middle east (entirely possible), things will get progressively worse for Palestinians. Turkey, China, Russia or UN is not going to protect them. I bet they feel stupid now having trusted the Arab countries when the Rabin-Arafat peace process could have delivered tangible results before the settlement started.

So what does this mean for Kashmiris. For too long they have lived under this mirage of independence, which was rightfully promised to them, but their leaders put their trust where it didnt matter. I dont side or agree with Indian point of view on development etc, because they have a rabid right wing goverment.
Having said that, we have to allow the Kashmiris to figure out if they can co-exist with this new arrangement.
This means we have to highlight that
a) there will be ethnic changes to the territory (its part of BJP manifesto and RSS lore)
b) there will be an uprising that will be totally local, because the sanghi mind cannot help itself when it comes to muslims.
c) embarass every politician, think tank, intellectual or organization that will side with this ethnic cleansing.
d) clearly explain that whatever security issues arise in kashmir from now are related to their brutal central government and have nothing to do with us.

Sooner or later a powerful country will pick up the Kashmir cause when India tries to punch above its weight. Much like the US and west do with regards to the Uighur's in China.

We have to play the long game here and accept that there will be suffering for Kashmiris in the short term. Who knows, maybe they will find a way to get along with GOI. Either way, this shouldnt be our battle and not now anyways.

 

[rhony]

After the UN discussion fails, after Russia uses Veto, then what will be the next step?

Fails? There is no pass or fail.

This is a closed door meeting with no resolutions. It's a general discussion where no records are kept. There will not be any outcome.

 

[Icon]

Fails? There is no pass or fail.

This is a closed door meeting with no resolutions. It's a general discussion where no records are kept. There will not be any outcome.

Resolutions can be passed in an informal closed door meeting.
I know this because I've researched about it

 

[rhony]

Resolutions can be passed in an informal closed door meeting.
I know this because I've researched about it

If there will be no records of the meeting, what will be the point of resolutions?

 

[Icon]

If there will be no records of the meeting, what will be the point of resolutions?

You can research about it on the net.

 

[rhony]

You can research about it on the net.

I did. Please send the link of your source

 

[MenInG]

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/events/programme-work

 

[Icon]

I did. Please send the link of your source

I saw it on the net. I don't know what the link is.
Anyways, if there is going to be a resolution passed we will know about it. No point of arguing over it.

 

[Usman Chadda]

It is useless. Yes, they did squat so far. Kashmir problem is already solved. Atleast J&K. It's AJK and Gilgit that are in limbo.

With J&K 'solved', India should bid goodbye to any dreams of claiming AJK and Gilgit. Any misdemeanour will result in increasing levels of embarrassment for the monkey that heads BJP right now.

 

[big_gamer007]

No one vouches for a nuclear war and honestly speaking nuclear war is never an option. But this does not mean that Pakistan would sit back and do nothing about atrocities that happens in Kashmir. First option is diplomatic route this is the route Pakistan is currently on and any developments from this route will be welcomed.

Why? Pakistan is getting involved because of religion and history due to religion. It's as much to be blamed as anyone else. One needs to realize Kashmir is being used to further agendas, at the life of Kashmiris. Once civilians and people who care about the humanitarian cause on both sides, understand this only then there is a chance to proceed further.

My question for you is, do you understand it?

 

[big_gamer007]

again, go read about Junagadh

If you do commit a murder does it give me a right to commit a murder as well?

 

[Varun]

Whats important here is to keep perspective and to use the Israeli-Palestinian issue as a guide. For decades Arab countries paid lip service (and financial aid) to the idea of Palestinian statehood. They didnt have the capability, means, or desire to resolve the issue though force and neither did they allow Palestinians to enter in to agreements with compromises two decades ago. Its pointless to compromise now since they have nothing left to trade. Understandably the Gulf states now have different security and economic priorities so they've all but abandoned the cause. What happens next is still to be seen, but barring the massive loss of US influence in the middle east (entirely possible), things will get progressively worse for Palestinians. Turkey, China, Russia or UN is not going to protect them. I bet they feel stupid now having trusted the Arab countries when the Rabin-Arafat peace process could have delivered tangible results before the settlement started.

So what does this mean for Kashmiris. For too long they have lived under this mirage of independence, which was rightfully promised to them, but their leaders put their trust where it didnt matter. I dont side or agree with Indian point of view on development etc, because they have a rabid right wing goverment.
Having said that, we have to allow the Kashmiris to figure out if they can co-exist with this new arrangement.
This means we have to highlight that
a) there will be ethnic changes to the territory (its part of BJP manifesto and RSS lore)
b) there will be an uprising that will be totally local, because the sanghi mind cannot help itself when it comes to muslims.
c) embarass every politician, think tank, intellectual or organization that will side with this ethnic cleansing.
d) clearly explain that whatever security issues arise in kashmir from now are related to their brutal central government and have nothing to do with us.

Sooner or later a powerful country will pick up the Kashmir cause when India tries to punch above its weight. Much like the US and west do with regards to the Uighur's in China.

We have to play the long game here and accept that there will be suffering for Kashmiris in the short term. Who knows, maybe they will find a way to get along with GOI. Either way, this shouldnt be our battle and not now anyways.

Underrated post us underrated.

 

[IMMY69]

Why? Pakistan is getting involved because of religion and history due to religion. It's as much to be blamed as anyone else. One needs to realize Kashmir is being used to further agendas, at the life of Kashmiris. Once civilians and people who care about the humanitarian cause on both sides, understand this only then there is a chance to proceed further.

My question for you is, do you understand it?

You can't exclude religion and history from this.

The very creation of Pakistan was on the basis that muslim majority states that had a border with Pakistan with accede to them.

It was the the ruling Hindu Raj who started killing off the muslims before any raid by the neighbouring muslim tribes.

So both History and religion very much come in to play.

 

[big_gamer007]

You can't exclude religion and history from this.

The very creation of Pakistan was on the basis that muslim majority states that had a border with Pakistan with accede to them.

It was the the ruling Hindu Raj who started killing off the muslims before any raid by the neighbouring muslim tribes.

So both History and religion very much come in to play.

So you are ok with Pakistan (establishment of course not civilians) using Kashmiris as puppets in the game of power?

Partition was done 70 years ago, why can't we get over the mistakes of our ancestors and move forward?

The partition and accession applied to British India. Kashmir was not part of British India so they had right to decide their own fate, the rebels and ruler fighting was internal Kashmir battle however it was of course linked with partition at that time. Since Pakistan got involved, India also got involved and we are in this mess.

Unless people (especially progressive and educated ones like yourself) don't move forward and get our of history and religion sub continent will always be in a mess for some reason or the other.

From what I have seen in last many decades that's how Kashmir narrative goes:


Pakistanis: India is oppressing Kashmiris. Kashmir is disputed territory.
Indians: Pakistanis sponsor terrorism. Pakistan has illegally occupied POK.
Pakistanis: India is oppressing Kashmiris. Conduct a plebiscite.
Indians: As per UN resolution, withdraw your troops first.
Pakistanis: but if we withdraw you will take our Kashmir also.
Indians: if we withdraw and Kashmir becomes independent Pakistan will capture Kashmir and spread further terrorism in more parts of India.
Pakistanis: stop oppressing Kashmiris
Indians: you have no right to talk since you oppress Balochistan's.
Pakistanis: there is nothing wrong in Balochistan, it's absolutely fine. Focus on your own khalistan problem.
Indians: khalistan is a non issue and figment of imagination of few retired UK/Canadian Sikhs.
In addition the Muslims and pandit debates comes up few times as well.

Rinse and repeat. This is generally how these topics work. Notice that no one really gives two hoots about the people of Kashmir.

What is the solution?

You need to think realistically as a Kashmiri. This generation and next couple of generation need to give up and accept the status quo. Integrate and when both India and Pakistan evolve their mindset (our people are still pretty feudalistic in their mindset) then they can hope the future generation will get a plebiscite. Of course that will depend if whether they still want it or not.

Kashmiris need to realise both sides are using them for their own agenda, no one but only they themselves can prevent their future generations from facing the same problems as they face today.

 

[Varun]

It's 6:45 PM India time and it's a Friday.

Come on, someone tell me what the UN has decided. Has India won? Or has Pakistan?

 

[Abdullah719]

Jammu and Kashmir: UN Security Council must uphold peace and security

Ahead of a closed-door consultation on the situation in Jammu and Kashmir at the UN Security Council today, Kumi Naidoo, Secretary General of Amnesty International said:

“For the first time in decades the United Nations Security Council is taking up the issue of Jammu and Kashmir. Members of the council need to remember that their mandate is to protect international peace and security – and they should seek to resolve the situation in a way that puts the human rights of the people in this troubled region at its centre.

“We reiterate our calls to the Indian government to act in accordance with international human rights law and standards towards people living in Jammu and Kashmir, including in relation to arrests and detentions of political opponents, and the rights to liberty and freedom of movement.

“The actions of the Indian government have thrown ordinary people’s lives into turmoil, subjecting them to unnecessary pain and distress on top of the years of human rights violations they have already endured.

“The people of Jammu and Kashmir should not be treated as pawns in a political crisis, and the international community must come together to call for their human rights to be respected.”

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/n...urity-council-must-uphold-peace-and-security/

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The United Nations Security Council is FINALLY talking <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/India?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#India</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistan</a></p>— Yusra Askari (@YusraSAskari) <a href="https://twitter.com/YusraSAskari/status/1162365591543570432?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 16, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Napa]

It's 6:45 PM India time and it's a Friday.

Come on, someone tell me what the UN has decided. Has India won? Or has Pakistan?

It has gone into overtime, rather like the CWC final.

 

[JaDed]

Whats a closed door meeting? Anyone can claim moral victory after that.

 

[rhony]

I think there will be a statement about curfiew. GOI went ahead and said it will be lifted next week. Don't think there will.be any about revoking 370

 

[AdamM97]

Whats a closed door meeting? Anyone can claim moral victory after that.

That’s the point. I expect the result to be presented in a way that both Pakistan and India can claim victory.

 

[JaDed]

That’s the point. I expect the result to be presented in a way that both Pakistan and India can claim victory.

Apparently no record of meeting or statements will be kept lol, these kind of meetings is what leads to interpretations!

 

[Varun]

Apparently no record of meeting or statements will be kept lol, these kind of meetings is what leads to interpretations!

Really?

The UN are even bigger sloths than I imagined.