On Asian pitches who is more lethal - Yasir Shah or Ravichandran Ashwin?

[the_outsider]

Going by numbers he is right in his own way but i disagree though.

Going by numbers Ashwin and Jadeja are both better than Yasir Shah but people don't seem to be convinced by that.

Different rules for different nationalities.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Going by numbers Ashwin and Jadeja are both better than Yasir Shah but people don't seem to be convinced by that.

Different rules for different nationalities.

Because knowing fully well Yasir Shah is never going to play a test in India, they can say whatever they want. Heck they can say he will bowl India out for 0 runs in both the innings lol

 

[Adijazz1706]

Either stick to one logic or

If you're going to claim that a bowler with 56% of the number of test wickets that Ashwin has is somehow better than Ashwin, then you better have a convincing reason for it.

And if you can't, then you must tell us why Yasir is better than Jadeja when Yasir's avg is 26 and Jadeja's is 20.

Jadeja in Asia is better than both Yasir and Ashwin, but that's not the point of the thread

 

[jnaveen1980]

You cannot conclude based on imaginary theories.

Ashwin

In BD avge 19.00
In SL avge 21.57
In Ind avge 22.68

Yasir SHah

In BD avge 34.00
In SL avge 19.33
In UAE avge 24.44

This is despite the fact Ashwin had to share bulk of wickets with Jadeja. Yasir shah is not playing a hifh profile league like IPL for decades, not playing in ODI, not playing in T20. Ashwin on the other hand is exposed in all forms. He has added responsibility of batting.

 

[Ab Fan]

Both good bowlers but I will prefer watching a leg spinner, so Yasir.

 

[RainMan_]

Yasir will be lethal if he gets the opportunity to bowl on the fast bouncy turning dustbowls of India.

Agreed. We all saw how ashwin got smashed around whenever he had to bowl on proper cricket wicket.

 

[Slog]

Ashwin - However, and indians please don’t out the pitch forks, I feel Ashwin has been declining in recent times and is no longer the force he was

 

[OneTip-OneHand]

Agreed. We all saw how ashwin got smashed around whenever he had to bowl on proper cricket wicket.

There is nothing called proper or improper cricket wickets. Just like England and SA prepares green pitches which suits their bowlers, BD usually prepares flat pitches to somehow sneak a draw, India prepares spin friendly pitches.

 

[rhony]

I think Ashwin has more variations than Yasir and is a better bowler. Both of them have continued the legacy of the spin dominance. Yasir has more energy but Ashwin has more tricks and brains.

 

[DRsohail]

Going by numbers Ashwin and Jadeja are both better than Yasir Shah but people don't seem to be convinced by that.

Different rules for different nationalities.

I said i disagree dear.Thats what i want to tell number is not everything.

 

[the_outsider]

I said i disagree dear.Thats what i want to tell number is not everything.

True. If one is selectively filtering numbers than they can be manipulated.

But this thread is very simple. It's a comparison in Asian conditions. There is no England debate here. No Australiam debate.

Both Ashwin and Yasir have bowled to the same batsmen over the last 5 years. There is practically no difference in the SR & avg of spinners in India and UAE.

So given all those constants, numbers become reliable.

And especially when Ashwin is ahead of Yasir in every single stat, not just 1 or 2. He has more wickets, a better avg, a better SR, better ER, more 5fers and more 10fers.

So, in cases like these, numbers tell a lot.

 

[DRsohail]

True. If one is selectively filtering numbers than they can be manipulated.

But this thread is very simple. It's a comparison in Asian conditions. There is no England debate here. No Australiam debate.

Both Ashwin and Yasir have bowled to the same batsmen over the last 5 years. There is practically no difference in the SR & avg of spinners in India and UAE.

So given all those constants, numbers become reliable.

And especially when Ashwin is ahead of Yasir in every single stat, not just 1 or 2. He has more wickets, a better avg, a better SR, better ER, more 5fers and more 10fers.

So, in cases like these, numbers tell a lot.

I hope you have seen Nathon lyon numbers in UAE and in India while bowling to inferior batsmen in UAE,But comparison bw the two can be odd as one is finger and other is leggie.But i will play yasir over Ashwin on any day of the week in UAE.

 

[the_outsider]

I hope you have seen Nathon lyon numbers in UAE and in India while bowling to inferior batsmen in UAE,But comparison bw the two can be odd as one is finger and other is leggie.But i will play yasir over Ashwin on any day of the week in UAE.

You are right about Lyon. He averages 30 in India and 53 in UAE.

But using that exact same argument I can point you to Herath's numbers: 54.4 in India and 28.6 in UAE.

See what I mean? You're trying to fish for one stat here or there to make your argument.

And yet you are ignoring the half a dozen stats (wkts, avg, SR, 5fers) that clearly show Ashwin is better.

 

[QuickCrick]

Isn’t this is about personal preference? I don’t understand why people are using stats to form an opinion..

I prefer leg spin, higher skill set and is useful regardless of pitch. Ashwin is an ok bowler but for me his action is a little too dodgy for me to appreciate, also he once claimed something along the lines of ‘I am like the Fernando Torres of Indian Cricket’ So pretty hard to take a guy seriously with stupid comments like that..

 

[Abdullah719]

There is practically no difference in the SR & avg of spinners in India and UAE.

Let me lend you a helping hand here.

INDIA:

UAE:

 

[Abdullah719]

Let me lend you a helping hand here.

INDIA:

UAE:

Their stats in these respective countries during this period:

ASHWIN:

YASIR:

 

[DRsohail]

You are right about Lyon. He averages 30 in India and 53 in UAE.

But using that exact same argument I can point you to Herath's numbers: 54.4 in India and 28.6 in UAE.

See what I mean? You're trying to fish for one stat here or there to make your argument.

And yet you are ignoring the half a dozen stats (wkts, avg, SR, 5fers) that clearly show Ashwin is better.

It would have been better if both of them played against each other then the problem would have been solved,but i have to see in UAE pitch tuning in session.
One guy is taking the burden of all team and single handedly taking his team everytime with lots lots of overs,and you can calculate from the overs per innings bowled by him.
I have not said Ashwin is not good but i told yu my pick for UAE and i will go by that.I will even pick Yasir over Ajmal who has been beast here and one reason been he was bowling above 15 degrees,but still he was not going through batting line ups like this man often does.

 

[Abdullah719]

Their stats in these respective countries during this period:

ASHWIN:

YASIR:

So Ashwin is averaging 21.7 on pitches where spinners are averaging 29.97, i.e. 27.6% better than the average for spinners in India (last 5 years).

Yasir is averaging 24.44 on pitches where spinners are averaging 35.64, i.e. 31.4% better than the average for spinners in UAE (last 5 years).

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

So Ashwin is averaging 21.7 on pitches where spinners are averaging 29.97, i.e. 27.6% better than the average for spinners in India (last 5 years).

Yasir is averaging 24.44 on pitches where spinners are averaging 35.64, i.e. 31.4% better than the average for spinners in UAE (last 5 years).

Much better way of looking at things.

 

[DRsohail]

So Ashwin is averaging 21.7 on pitches where spinners are averaging 29.97, i.e. 27.6% better than the average for spinners in India (last 5 years).

Yasir is averaging 24.44 on pitches where spinners are averaging 35.64, i.e. 31.4% better than the average for spinners in UAE (last 5 years).

Very goood analysis but here again any factors come like spin play and the other bowlers played etc?
It is personal preferences for me when the stats are almost the same and both being match winners.
L

 

[the_outsider]

Their stats in these respective countries during this period:

ASHWIN:

YASIR:

Bowling record for spinners in India (minus Indian spinners):

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Bowling record for spinners in UAE (minus Pakistani spinners):

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling


Given that you now have a comparable dataset now you tell me if that difference in figures that you have posted is down to the difference in pitches in the two nations? Or is it down to the difference in wicket taking ability of Ashwin & Jadeja and Yasir Shah and co?

 

[Abdullah719]

Very goood analysis but here again any factors come like spin play and the other bowlers played etc?
It is personal preferences for me when the stats are almost the same and both being match winners.
L

Exactly, but some of our friends are making it seem as though it's a no-brainer with Ashwin miles ahead.

 

[DRsohail]

Exactly, but some of our friends are making it seem as though it's a no-brainer with Ashwin miles ahead.

And i will play Yasir over Ashwin in UAE.
And thats it.

 

[Abdullah719]

Bowling record for spinners in India (minus Indian spinners):

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Bowling record for spinners in UAE (minus Pakistani spinners):

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling


Given that you now have a comparable dataset now you tell me if that difference in figures that you have posted is down to the difference in pitches in the two nations? Or is it down to the difference in wicket taking ability of Ashwin & Jadeja and Yasir Shah and co?

If we're going down that road then batting capabilities of the host countries need to be taken into account... You would expect the Indian batsmen to fare better. We can go around in circles, the point is that the difference is really not all that much. No one is clearly well ahead.

 

[the_outsider]

If we're going down that road then batting capabilities of the host countries need to be taken into account... You would expect the Indian batsmen to fare better. We can go around in circles, the point is that the difference is really not all that much. No one is clearly well ahead.

My point of these stats were to show posters who said that UAE pitches are a disadvantage for a spinner as compared to Ind. Which is not true. Spinners may need to bowl different in these two places. Spinners don't bowl the same way in India and in SL either. But that doesn't mean that any of these pitches are any less condusive to spin.


But okay. Let's say both are just as effective in terms of wicket-taking abilty. But the mere fact that Yasir has half as many wickets as Ashwin (139 vs 277) and 41% as many 5fers (10 vs 24) means that Ashwin is comfortably ahead, even if the the average is the same.

You wouldn't say that a batsman who has scored 5k runs @ 50 and has 10 centuries is the same as a batsman who has 10k runs @ 50 with 24 centuries, would you?

 

[Bilal7]

For the last time, the difference in average and SR between the Indian spinners and Shah is down to the pitches. Unless people can solve the problem of the difference in their stats being similar to the difference in stats between spinners in the UAE and spinners in India, this argument is dead.

As for overall, the gap only grows wider because unlike Ashwin, Shah has not been a failure overseas. He has helped his team draw a series in England along with picking up a 10-wicket haul and should do better than Ashwin in South Africa as well.

 

[gazza619]

Yasir Shah all the way. I may be biased.

 

[Bilal7]

So Ashwin is averaging 21.7 on pitches where spinners are averaging 29.97, i.e. 27.6% better than the average for spinners in India (last 5 years).

Yasir is averaging 24.44 on pitches where spinners are averaging 35.64, i.e. 31.4% better than the average for spinners in UAE (last 5 years).

One would also expect the Indian spinners as a whole, to bowl better on their home pitches than Pakistani spinners as a whole, bowling on pitches in a foreign country.

 

[QuickCrick]

My point of these stats were to show posters who said that UAE pitches are a disadvantage for a spinner as compared to Ind. Which is not true. Spinners may need to bowl different in these two places. Spinners don't bowl the same way in India and in SL either. But that doesn't mean that any of these pitches are any less condusive to spin.


But okay. Let's say both are just as effective in terms of wicket-taking abilty. But the mere fact that Yasir has half as many wickets as Ashwin (139 vs 277) and 41% as many 5fers (10 vs 24) means that Ashwin is comfortably ahead, even if the the average is the same.

You wouldn't say that a batsman who has scored 5k runs @ 50 and has 10 centuries is the same as a batsman who has 10k runs @ 50 with 24 centuries, would you?

You’re not completely wrong as it is your opinion but like everyone has said it’s a personal preference and bringing stats into just makes the whole convo boring..

You are wrong in comparing Indian tracks to UAE as there are far too many variables to look at stats for a conclusive answer so you have to actually watch the game and pass judgement from what you see. From what I have seen Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and India all produce turning wickets, UAE is nothing in comparison.

What stats don’t show is a majority of wickets in the UAE come from either world class bowling or poor shot selection from batsmen suffering from the mental fatigue of batting on dead wickets. Nothing to do with how much it turns! If you take Ajmal, Shah and Herath out you’ll so no other spinners have been that successful which shows how good you need to be to take wickets in the UAE.

 

[Abdullah719]

But okay. Let's say both are just as effective in terms of wicket-taking abilty. But the mere fact that Yasir has half as many wickets as Ashwin (139 vs 277) and 41% as many 5fers (10 vs 24) means that Ashwin is comfortably ahead, even if the the average is the same.

You wouldn't say that a batsman who has scored 5k runs @ 50 and has 10 centuries is the same as a batsman who has 10k runs @ 50 with 24 centuries, would you?

It all depends on recent form and performances, in the past few years the only thing separating Yasir and Ashwin is the number of matches they have played.

Amla has 9000 runs, Williamson 5500 (approx), that doesn't mean Amla is automatically better or the correct choice.

 

[the_outsider]

It all depends on recent form and performances, in the past few years the only thing separating Yasir and Ashwin is the number of matches they have played.

Amla has 9000 runs, Williamson 5500 (approx), that doesn't mean Amla is automatically better or the correct choice.

But Ashwin's recent form has been as good as it's ever been. 160 wickets in the last 3 years (32 matches) at an avg of 25.

And that includes 10 tests outside Asia as well. If we stick to Asia tests, as is the topic of this thread then I'm sure that avg would be around 22.

So current form is great for Ashwin.

As for the bold part, I don't agree that it's so straightforward. Ashwin and Warne both have the exact same career average of 25. And just like Yasir has about half as many wickets as Ashwin, Ashwin has about half as many as Warne.

Does that mean that Ashwin and Warne are the same and the only differenciating factor is the number of matches played (62 vs 145)?

See? It doesn't work like that. You can't say "it's just down to the number of matches". You can't just put a linear equation on this situation. The wickets have to come in reality.

 

[Abdullah719]

But Ashwin's recent form has been as good as it's ever been. 160 wickets in the last 3 years (32 matches) at an avg of 25.

And that includes 10 tests outside Asia as well. If we stick to Asia tests, as is the topic of this thread then I'm sure that avg would be around 22.

So current form is great for Ashwin.

As for the bold part, I don't agree that it's so straightforward. Ashwin and Warne both have the exact same career average of 25. And just like Yasir has about half as many wickets as Ashwin, Ashwin has about half as many as Warne.

Does that mean that Ashwin and Warne are the same and the only differenciating factor is the number of matches played (62 vs 145)?

See? It doesn't work like that. You can't say "it's just down to the number of matches". You can't just put a linear equation on this situation. The wickets have to come in reality.

I don't know where Warne comes into this, we're comparing overlapping careers, not bowlers from different eras.

In fact, we're not even discussing who is the better bowler here, we're simply discussing who is more lethal or effective in Asia and if we compare their stats during a period where both have been playing, there isn't a whole lot to separate them.

Now I can't exactly use a time machine and have Yasir debut in 2011 alongside Ashwin, with Pakistan playing as many Tests as India exactly so that we have a definitive and linear comparison. We have to go with the stats we currently have and based on those, I don't see any indication to suggest any of them is majorly better than the other.

I am only talking in terms of statistics here, overall I'm not sure who I'd pick in this thread as Ashwin has done really well in many series and bowls brilliantly while in the zone, but then you can say the same about Yasir as evidenced by his spell today (yesterday now).

 

[Buffet]

You guys are trying to normalize average runs given by spinners and all that to see who did better. ICC ranking does exactly that.

It takes account of relative contribution of player compared to everyone else in the match. You can average 30 with other bowlers in your team averaging 40 and you can be still better than some one averaging 20 with his team mates averaging 25. You don't simply get penalized for averaging 30. It takes account of opposition strength. Having said that it won't account for teams ability to play spin. So it will have limitations.

 

[RainMan_]

Either stick to one logic or

If you're going to claim that a bowler with 56% of the number of test wickets that Ashwin has is somehow better than Ashwin, then you better have a convincing reason for it.

And if you can't, then you must tell us why Yasir is better than Jadeja when Yasir's avg is 26 and Jadeja's is 20.

Let me summarize the whole thing so that everyone can see the logical fallacy in ur argument.

First of all, ashwin has played exactly 2 times more tests than what Yasir has played in his entire career. Hence, Ashwin has more wickets. As a matter of fact Ashwin should have taken way more wickets. But, since Yasir is the superior bowler he has outperformed Ashwin in this regard and taken way more wickets per match than Ashwin. Bear with me, it will get even funnier.

Ashwin has taken 5. 25 wickets per tests compared to Yasir's 6 wickets per test. Another parameter that clearly suggests that Yasir is the superior spinner overall and ur claim about Ashwin being the better bowler just because he has more wickets is absolutely ridiculous like most of ur other claims. Hehe

Since we have already established the fact that overall Yasir is the superior spinner l, let's focus our attention to their performance in Asian condition. Ashwin has slightly better bowling average in Asia mostly because 80% of the matches that Ashwin has played in Asia were in India. And we all know that India and doctored dust bowlers r almost synonymous.

Comared to that Yasir has played 75% of his matches in Asia on dead UAE wickets but surprisingly he still has an excellent bowling average.

Now if we wanna draw a conclusion then from the above dataset we can clearly see that Yasir is a way better spinner Ashwin in Asian condition. Yasir would've been totally out of Ashwin's reach if their roles were reversed. I mean, if Yasir got the chance to regularly bowl on doctored Square turners of India and Ashwin had to deal with the dead wickets of UAE.

[MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION]
[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

 

[jnaveen1980]

Let me summarize the whole thing so that everyone can see the logical fallacy in ur argument.

First of all, ashwin has played exactly 2 times more tests than what Yasir has played in his entire career. Hence, Ashwin has more wickets. As a matter of fact Ashwin should have taken way more wickets. But, since Yasir is the superior bowler he has outperformed Ashwin in this regard and taken way more wickets per match than Ashwin. Bear with me, it will get even funnier.

Ashwin has taken 5. 25 wickets per tests compared to Yasir's 6 wickets per test. Another parameter that clearly suggests that Yasir is the superior spinner overall and ur claim about Ashwin being the better bowler just because he has more wickets is absolutely ridiculous like most of ur other claims. Hehe

Since we have already established the fact that overall Yasir is the superior spinner l, let's focus our attention to their performance in Asian condition. Ashwin has slightly better bowling average in Asia mostly because 80% of the matches that Ashwin has played in Asia were in India. And we all know that India and doctored dust bowlers r almost synonymous.

Comared to that Yasir has played 75% of his matches in Asia on dead UAE wickets but surprisingly he still has an excellent bowling average.

Now if we wanna draw a conclusion then from the above dataset we can clearly see that Yasir is a way better spinner Ashwin in Asian condition. Yasir would've been totally out of Ashwin's reach if their roles were reversed. I mean, if Yasir got the chance to regularly bowl on doctored Square turners of India and Ashwin had to deal with the dead wickets of UAE.

[MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION]
[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

Averaging 34 against a rubbish team like Bangladesh doesn't say much about him lol

 

[Abdullah719]

You guys are trying to normalize average runs given by spinners and all that to see who did better. ICC ranking does exactly that.

It takes account of relative contribution of player compared to everyone else in the match. You can average 30 with other bowlers in your team averaging 40 and you can be still better than some one averaging 20 with his team mates averaging 25. You don't simply get penalized for averaging 30. It takes account of opposition strength. Having said that it won't account for teams ability to play spin. So it will have limitations.

True, but the thread is about who is more lethal in Asia alone and I don't think rankings can be depended on to determine that.

 

[Dark_Horse]

Some body please draw comparisons of kookabura balls vs sg balls. Ashwin bowls with SG wheras yasir bowls with kookaburas

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Let me summarize the whole thing so that everyone can see the logical fallacy in ur argument.

First of all, ashwin has played exactly 2 times more tests than what Yasir has played in his entire career. Hence, Ashwin has more wickets. As a matter of fact Ashwin should have taken way more wickets. But, since Yasir is the superior bowler he has outperformed Ashwin in this regard and taken way more wickets per match than Ashwin. Bear with me, it will get even funnier.

Ashwin has taken 5. 25 wickets per tests compared to Yasir's 6 wickets per test. Another parameter that clearly suggests that Yasir is the superior spinner overall and ur claim about Ashwin being the better bowler just because he has more wickets is absolutely ridiculous like most of ur other claims. Hehe

Since we have already established the fact that overall Yasir is the superior spinner l, let's focus our attention to their performance in Asian condition. Ashwin has slightly better bowling average in Asia mostly because 80% of the matches that Ashwin has played in Asia were in India. And we all know that India and doctored dust bowlers r almost synonymous.

Comared to that Yasir has played 75% of his matches in Asia on dead UAE wickets but surprisingly he still has an excellent bowling average.

Now if we wanna draw a conclusion then from the above dataset we can clearly see that Yasir is a way better spinner Ashwin in Asian condition. Yasir would've been totally out of Ashwin's reach if their roles were reversed. I mean, if Yasir got the chance to regularly bowl on doctored Square turners of India and Ashwin had to deal with the dead wickets of UAE.

[MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION]
[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

How many times do u want to embarass yourself?
You need to think before posting these stats.
Indian team has two spinners jadeja and ashwin.,both of them are prolific in asia due to which ashwins wicket per innings is lower than yasir, yasir was pakistan's only spinner in uae for nearly 3 years.
Jadeja's avg is even better than ashwin so obviously this has a negative effect on ashwins wicket per innings.

Secondly i am not sure whether u have considered the fact that ashwin has played 15 tests in SENA conditions while yasir has only played 8.So obviously playing more matches in SENA has affected ashwins match per wicket in a negative way.

Anything else genius?

 

[barah_admi]

On a turner or a slow/low Asian track, whom would you pick in your team if you have to choose one? Who is more lethal spinner on pitches where they get assistance?

What is most remarkable is that Shah has rarely played on typical Asian pitches. You see, the UAE pitches are too low, too slow and do not provide the type of turn that other Asian pitches do. Ashwin is literally bowling on square turners, Yasir has to work harder and bowls better.

He is, overall, in all conditions, the supreme bowler.

 

[ARK Rafay]

Yasir Shah. He's suitable in all conditions all iver the world

 

[AfridiRagingBull]

That spell of 8-41 yesterday will he unmatched by anyone for quite a while, be it a spinner or a fast bowler, I'm not sure Ashwin or anyone can get close to that. Watch it.

On a separate not he literally breaks his back to get something out of these slow low wickets. Ashwin would do okay I reckon but he will struggle most of the time. He's not a workhorse like Yasir and cannot match his energy therefore Yasir is a better weapon in Asia.

 

[DRsohail]

Let me summarize the whole thing so that everyone can see the logical fallacy in ur argument.

First of all, ashwin has played exactly 2 times more tests than what Yasir has played in his entire career. Hence, Ashwin has more wickets. As a matter of fact Ashwin should have taken way more wickets. But, since Yasir is the superior bowler he has outperformed Ashwin in this regard and taken way more wickets per match than Ashwin. Bear with me, it will get even funnier.

Ashwin has taken 5. 25 wickets per tests compared to Yasir's 6 wickets per test. Another parameter that clearly suggests that Yasir is the superior spinner overall and ur claim about Ashwin being the better bowler just because he has more wickets is absolutely ridiculous like most of ur other claims. Hehe

Since we have already established the fact that overall Yasir is the superior spinner l, let's focus our attention to their performance in Asian condition. Ashwin has slightly better bowling average in Asia mostly because 80% of the matches that Ashwin has played in Asia were in India. And we all know that India and doctored dust bowlers r almost synonymous.

Comared to that Yasir has played 75% of his matches in Asia on dead UAE wickets but surprisingly he still has an excellent bowling average.

Now if we wanna draw a conclusion then from the above dataset we can clearly see that Yasir is a way better spinner Ashwin in Asian condition. Yasir would've been totally out of Ashwin's reach if their roles were reversed. I mean, if Yasir got the chance to regularly bowl on doctored Square turners of India and Ashwin had to deal with the dead wickets of UAE.

[MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION]
[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

Yasir And Ashwin are neck to neck but i said iw ill play yasir in UAE over Aswin for the reasons below
1 >wrist spinners have been doing well in UAE than finger spinners as per my observation
2 >my personal prefernce for leggies,even if you tell me who will I play in UAE bw Murli and Warne i will play Shane ,knowing he has inferior average over all
3>another thing which goes in Yasir favour is clean action which I would not like to discuss here as the thing has been discussed multiple times,
At the end I hope both retires with taking 500 wickets which is unlikely for yasir beacsue of less matches we play and his late entry but he should take 350 and Ashwin 500 definitely.Best of luck to both of them.!

 

[Buffet]

True, but the thread is about who is more lethal in Asia alone and I don't think rankings can be depended on to determine that.

Ashwin and Yasir, both have not done too well outside Asia, so pretty much ranking trend is due to their performance in Asia.

Your point will carry more weight if one of them had done very well outside Asia.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Yasir And Ashwin are neck to neck but i said iw ill play yasir in UAE over Aswin for the reasons below
1 >wrist spinners have been doing well in UAE than finger spinners as per my observation
2 >my personal prefernce for leggies,even if you tell me who will I play in UAE bw Murli and Warne i will play Shane ,knowing he has inferior average over all
3>another thing which goes in Yasir favour is clean action which I would not like to discuss here as the thing has been discussed multiple times,
At the end I hope both retires with taking 500 wickets which is unlikely for yasir beacsue of less matches we play and his late entry but he should take 350 and Ashwin 500 definitely.Best of luck to both of them.!

That is logical post. Not patriotic post. I agree wristies will always have an edge over finger spinners. Only certain Murali stood out but hey.. he was a bit like wrist spinner. He could bowl off spin with "wrist' When Ashwin on song he can be quiet magical and spectacular to watch. Seen time and again. Even in T20 against Chris Gayle as an opening bowler was quiet effective. Let us put this way. Ashwin is far more versatile. Sometimes it works against him. But it will keep him having a longer career.

 

[jnaveen1980]

What is most remarkable is that Shah has rarely played on typical Asian pitches. You see, the UAE pitches are too low, too slow and do not provide the type of turn that other Asian pitches do. Ashwin is literally bowling on square turners, Yasir has to work harder and bowls better.

He is, overall, in all conditions, the supreme bowler.

Didn't Yasir bowl in BD? It is a matter of which team you bowl to. Leggies are always effective against England compared to offies. They have traditional weakness. Not because of pitch or ball. Certain teams are more weak against leggies especially SA, England, Australia, NZ.

 

[DRsohail]

That is logical post. Not patriotic post. I agree wristies will always have an edge over finger spinners. Only certain Murali stood out but hey.. he was a bit like wrist spinner. He could bowl off spin with "wrist' When Ashwin on song he can be quiet magical and spectacular to watch. Seen time and again. Even in T20 against Chris Gayle as an opening bowler was quiet effective. Let us put this way. Ashwin is far more versatile. Sometimes it works against him. But it will keep him having a longer career.

His record shows he is special I mean Ashwin,you cant get that many wickets with out being versatile.I liked the way he deceived Sanga KAra in his lasts series which shows his real class against the best in the world.

 

[Mute Witness]

If two 5fers in England is enough to make Yasir better than Ashwin career haul of 26fers and dominance in Asia, then by that logic Sehwag is the better than any Pakistani batsman ever because he has produced 3-4 centuries in SENA and has bosses Asia more than any other batsman ever.

You've nearly hit the nail on it's head. But just missed the point. The question is how many of Sehwag's SENA centuries resulted in Test Wins? Because it's not just about the number of times you clock centuries overseas, it's about their impact. If Sehwag's 3-4 SENA centuries resulted in wins, then by all means he should be near the top. Inzamam rated Sehwag extremely highly because he was a match winner. He said that he would take an 80 that resulted in a win, over a 500 that resulted in a draw any day of the week.

That's reason Saeed Anwar is held in such high regard in Pakistan is because 6 out of his 7 overseas centuries resulted in Test wins, including wins in South Africa, England and New Zealand. That's an insane win rate. And the same holds true for bowlers

Fact is if we had Ashwin in Lords or the Oval in 2016, or for that matter any other spinner, in all likelihood we would have lost the game, or at best drawn it. Yasir was the difference. And that ability matters.
In the UAE we were whitewashing teams with Zulfiqar Babar and Abdul Rehman, hardly world beaters, but excellent in home conditions. Quality spinners at home are very handy, and there is absolutely no doubt that Ashwin is the best of those. But the really great spinners, well, they will win you games where others wouldn't.

I will grant you though that Leg Spinners have a natural advantage overseas, at least that's what the statistics suggest. The effervescent Mushi took a number of overseas five fors in wins in Australia, England, and New Zealand. Qadir had a fair bit of success too. As i'm sure kumble has too. But the really great finger spinners of recent years, the likes of Murli, Saqlain, Ajmal have all had five fors abroad, albeit in less successful tests. Murli of course has winning ones of course but he was the greatest of them all.

I still believe in Ashwin's ability. I think he may be a victim of his own success at home. Too much is expected of him overseas. But he does a decent job, contributing as best he can. He just needs those wins. Those critical wins. Even if he gets a three for or something.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Same old dustbowl argument!

While doing Ashwin vs Yasir, do consider that Yasir has almost been a loneranger in UAE while for last 4-5 years Ashwin has been sharing the spoils with an Asian beast named Jadeja who has almost same number of wickets as Yasir (at a betterbowling average too) and has perhaps been better matchwinner than even Ashwin for us in last 2 years.

Another small matter, both Ashwin and Jadeja while batting on those 'dustbowls' have still averaged 30+. Makes them sure shot all rounders and puts them ahead of Yasir

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Jadeja is more lethal than both and Maharaj is the best spinner in the world.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Anyways, on a day when Yasir has taken 14 wkts to win the test for Pakistan, he will of course have plenty of support. Wonder if he'd have got the same support after the 1st test despite taking a 5-er.

 

[ikky47]

Jadeja is better than both of them.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Let me summarize the whole thing so that everyone can see the logical fallacy in ur argument.

First of all, ashwin has played exactly 2 times more tests than what Yasir has played in his entire career. Hence, Ashwin has more wickets. As a matter of fact Ashwin should have taken way more wickets. But, since Yasir is the superior bowler he has outperformed Ashwin in this regard and taken way more wickets per match than Ashwin. Bear with me, it will get even funnier.

Ashwin has taken 5. 25 wickets per tests compared to Yasir's 6 wickets per test. Another parameter that clearly suggests that Yasir is the superior spinner overall and ur claim about Ashwin being the better bowler just because he has more wickets is absolutely ridiculous like most of ur other claims. Hehe

Since we have already established the fact that overall Yasir is the superior spinner l, let's focus our attention to their performance in Asian condition. Ashwin has slightly better bowling average in Asia mostly because 80% of the matches that Ashwin has played in Asia were in India. And we all know that India and doctored dust bowlers r almost synonymous.

Comared to that Yasir has played 75% of his matches in Asia on dead UAE wickets but surprisingly he still has an excellent bowling average.

Now if we wanna draw a conclusion then from the above dataset we can clearly see that Yasir is a way better spinner Ashwin in Asian condition. Yasir would've been totally out of Ashwin's reach if their roles were reversed. I mean, if Yasir got the chance to regularly bowl on doctored Square turners of India and Ashwin had to deal with the dead wickets of UAE.

[MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION]
[MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION]

"Taijul is the only world class spinner in Asia apart from Yasir"

There I wrote what you so dearly wanted to but did not.

 

[Saj]

Poll added to this thread.

 

[barah_admi]

Didn't Yasir bowl in BD? It is a matter of which team you bowl to. Leggies are always effective against England compared to offies. They have traditional weakness. Not because of pitch or ball. Certain teams are more weak against leggies especially SA, England, Australia, NZ.

I'm sure he has played in Bang (I can't remember off the top of my head) but the majority of his cricket has not been on such wickets, that is the point. Also, how may leggies have a ten for against England at Lord's? In their first ever test in the country?

 

[barah_admi]

"Taijul is the only world class spinner in Asia apart from Yasir"

There I wrote what you so dearly wanted to but did not.

Please answer the points he raised and stop crying.

 

[the_outsider]

"Taijul is the only world class spinner in Asia apart from Yasir"

There I wrote what you so dearly wanted to but did not.

)

 

[Mueez]

Yasir is a matchwinner.

Ashwin not.

 

[the_outsider]

Yasir is a matchwinner.

Ashwin not.

Percentage of Yasir's 5fers that resulted in wins - 62.5%

Percentage of Ashwin's 5fers that resulted in wins - 84.6%

 

[Sam99]

On asian pitches no doubt ashwin becomes bradman of bowling but outside asia he is one of the worst.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

On asian pitches no doubt ashwin becomes bradman of bowling but outside asia he is one of the worst.

That's true for most of the asian spinners.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Meh.. Yasir has centuries in SENA countries.. hard for Ashwin to beat him..

 

[Nikhhil98]

Ashwin is better marginally , esp recently

 

[Hasan123]

Jadeja is more lethal than both and Maharaj is the best spinner in the world.

Lol Mahraj has never been better than Ashwin.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ashwin is miles ahead although Yasir is Pakistan's second best spinner.

 

[gani999]

Something tells me that the most lethal spinner in Asia right now is Afghanistan's Rashid Khan.

 

[Mamoon]

Ashwin is the greatest Asian Test all-rounder ever and a better spinner than Yasir.

Yasir is quality player in his own right but this comparison is disrespectful to Ashwin.

 

[Pakhs]

Ashwin is miles ahead although Yasir is Pakistan's second best spinner.

How is he miles ahead what has Aswin done that Yasir has not in Asia? Ashwin has been out bowled by Jadeja almost every time. Ashwin has great all round skills but in Asia its difficult to separate the two the reason being on turners both these will take wickets as they are proper spinners. Jadeja will also take bucket loads.

 

[Ab Fan]

How is he miles ahead what has Aswin done that Yasir has not in Asia? Ashwin has been out bowled by Jadeja almost every time. Ashwin has great all round skills but in Asia its difficult to separate the two the reason being on turners both these will take wickets as they are proper spinners. Jadeja will also take bucket loads.

Both Ashwin and Jadeja are miles ahead of Yasir.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Both Ashwin and Jadeja are miles ahead of Yasir.

Yes... Satya Vachhan.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Ashwin is the greatest Asian Test all-rounder ever
and a better spinner than Yasir.

Yasir is quality player in his own right but this comparison is disrespectful to Ashwin.

Ashwin is not only the greatest ever Asian Test allrounder, he is also world's best allrounder ever. Sobers, Kallis, Miller etc. all pale in comparison to the mighty Ashwin's allround genius.

 

[Pakhs]

Both Ashwin and Jadeja are miles ahead of Yasir.

Jadeja is better than both as he can bowl on flat wickets too. Ashwin has done nothing that Yair has not done in Asia. Yasir has shot teams out for scores Pakistan weak line up can chase in UAE where pitches dont turn as much as they do in India.

Over all Ashwin has feasted on more turners than Yasir.

 

[gani999]

Ashwin is the greatest Asian Test all-rounder ever and a better spinner than Yasir.

I'm assuming you are talking about the recent times, last 15 years or so?

Ashwin isn't greater than Imran or Kapil Dev, is he?

 

[Ab Fan]

Something tells me that the most lethal spinner in Asia right now is Afghanistan's Rashid Khan.

He is the greatest IPL spinner of all-time, ahead of Yuzvendra Chahal.

He is future Sunrisers Hyderabad's Hall of Famer.

 

[Ashmal]

Ashwin is much better than Yasir overseas.

But it's not fair to compare Ashwin and Yasir in Asia.....Yasir plays in UAE and Pak where the pitches don't break much even on the 5th day.....while Ashwin has the advantage of playing in India where ball turns much more and become a minefield by Day 4/5.

So in Asia...I would say both are at similar level.

 

[Pakhs]

Yasir shah is also a wrist spinner where Ashwin is a finger spinner who relies on pitch to offer most of the turn. The kind of turn and bounce and then low bounce Ashwin is getting on this pitch for instance its very rare for Yasir to have that luxury. The only place where he ever got this luxury was SL and his record is similar if not better there.

 

[Pakhs]

Ashwin is much better than Yasir overseas.

But it's not fair to compare Ashwin and Yasir in Asia.....Yasir plays in UAE and Pak where the pitches don't break much even on the 5th day.....while Ashwin has the advantage of playing in India where ball turns much more and become a minefield by Day 4/5.

So in Asia...I would say both are at similar level.

Yaisr has done better in Asia on evidence so far his numbers in SL on similar tracks where Ashwin regularly feast on are better.

 

[Heisenberg111]

I'm assuming you are talking about the recent times, last 15 years or so?

Ashwin isn't greater than Imran or Kapil Dev, is he?

You are disrespecting mighty Ashwin's allround genius by restricting the time frame to the last 15 years. A GOAT is a GOAT, period.

 

[Zaz]

You are disrespecting mighty Ashwin's allround genius by restricting the time frame to the last 15 years. A GOAT is a GOAT, period.

Id go as far to day ashwin is the greatest cricketer that ever has played the game period

Hes so far ahead of the next best its no comparison Hes in a league of his own

He is both warne and bradman combined A genuis

 

[Heisenberg111]

Id go as far to day ashwin is the greatest cricketer that ever has played the game period

Hes so far ahead of the next best its no comparison Hes in a league of his own

He is both warne and bradman combined A genuis

Exactly, very aptly put.

 

[Hyperion66]

I doubt the sanity of those who think Ash vs Yasir is still relevant. In terms of bowling, batting, match awareness and cricketing intelligence Ashwin is so far ahead that it is not even a comparison.