One game lost - That's all it takes to turn our backs to the team?

[Baigel]

Unbelievable. Pakistan has lost one game and we have Wasim Akram (not sure if he even watches the games) talking about our "inexperienced" batting line-up and the "GOAT" Shoaib Akhtar mentioning how Sarfaraz Ahmed is not fit for international cricket. 1 game is all it took to turn our backs to the team. I'm not sure what inexperienced batting line-up Wasim is talking about (Hafeez debut in 2003, Malik debut in 2001 and Azhar ali debut in 2011), our top 5 batsmen (excluding Fakhar) have played a total of 523 matches at an average of 104.6 (games per player). If this is called "inexperience" please tell me the definition of experience. Shoaib Akhtar, I didn't hear you talk about Sarfaraz's fitness levels once during the whole Sri Lanka series or the CT17. Oh, and if i'm not mistaken isn't this the same Shoaib Akhtar who managed to fail fitness test after fitness test, and please lets not forget that he questioned the managements decision to play Hassan Ali ahead of Junaid Khan. All these so called "greats" are not doing anything to our cricket at the moment, except for tweeting their feelings and not actually putting any effort in. Aren't these "greats" supposed to be the ones feeding the Pakistan team with confidence and re-assuring them of the fact that it was a hard fought game. Just imagine the pressure on the shoulders of the Pakistani boys, The greatest players of cricket for Pakistan are letting them down with their criticism. I understand that criticism needs to be given, but they've only lost ONE GAME out of the last 10, cut them some slack and accept the fact they had a bad day at the office.

 

[Syed1]

Please go back and read what these "experts" were saying after the first match of the CT. They are paid for their opinion and they cannot say "everything is alright"... they have to present doomsday scenario since that will make headlines and people will discuss on online forums.


If Pakistan wins the next match Sarfaraz will automatically become fit with a six pack and Pakistani batting lineup will become the best in the world.


There are plenty of issues in the side and lots of areas of improvement, but the situation isn't as dire as these "experts" predict.

 

[babajee]

Always happens on PP. We lose a match whether it’s against WI, India or NZ and the usual suspects come out with their prophecies of our cricket being doomed and us falling behind other countries.

 

[Baigel]

Agree with your statement on how if Pakistan win the next game Safi will have a six pack and ..., But, Shouldn't these "experts" be giving correct information instead of trying to make headlines, looking at you Shoaib Akhtar

 

[Baigel]

Do you feel the "experts" create prophecies for some extra cash?

 

[pkckt]

Looking at Sarfaraz, he has developed a habit of falling rock bottom then rising from the ashes so I'm not so worried about this series

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Not just ex-players and experts,a lot of common fans (and posters here as well) start insulting players and the team after losing a couple of matches.These same people then start chest beating after a good couple of games.

 

[IM NOT YOU]

nobody is turning their back on the team. We are upset that Mohammad Hafeez, a inconsistent and below average, mediocre batsman, is in the team when he is banned from bowling. Hafeez should NOT be in this team.

we, as educated and passionate cricket fans, are also upset that azhar ali, who bats too slow for the modern game, not only fails more often than not - but even when he does perform it is a very slow paced knock that often adds little value. simply put, azhar ali is useless more often than not, and a liability at least half the time.

with so many promising batsman and upcoming players, we are upset that management persists with underperforming and limited-in-ability senior players.

every tour we start with underperforming seniors (ahmed shehzad the most recent example against sri lanka) and then ONLY AFTER THEY FAIL we replace them with deserving youngsters (like imam ul haq), who perform incredibly and then yet are mysteriously replaced by underperforming seniors again.


so this is why we are upset. and rightfully so.

 

[Markhor]

I don't think we're that far off.

We need a better, pacier new ball bowler instead of Raees; an explosive opener to partner Fakhar instead of Stability Azhar; and for Haris to replace Hafeez.

We often start slowly - we lost the first ODI in the West Indies and the first game of the Champions Trophy. Let's see where we are at the end of the series.

 

[Abdullah719]

I don't think we're that far off.

We need a better, pacier new ball bowler instead of Raees; an explosive opener to partner Fakhar instead of Stability Azhar; and for Haris to replace Hafeez.

We often start slowly - we lost the first ODI in the West Indies and the first game of the Champions Trophy. Let's see where we are at the end of the series.

Don't want Malik to be replaced?

 

[Fahdi]

No one's turning his back on the team. We are just sick and tired of players like Hafeez.

 

[Markhor]

Don't want Malik to be replaced?

Not sure who I'd replace him with, want to see how he does in this series.

No doubt he has a weakness against quality pace outside Asia.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

We are on the right track. Just gotta drop the dead weight.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Hafeez is a difficult one to rid of because he has so many connections. He's the main problem in the team.

 

[Plumb]

Thanks OP for the thread. Completely agree to what you have been saying, these former players become untouchable when they sit and talk about cricket. How many times they embarrassed the nation with on/off field issues? Many times....

Yes Sarfi needs improvement!!!
Yes we need to get rid of deadweights!!!!!
Few CT17 games gave hafeez and azhar few more odis for future!!!!

This doesn’t mean we take out the knives and start acting like pak cricket is finished... one of the PP great expert have been calling that “pak cricket is finished” in his every single post for many years and yet we able to win CT17 but wait ya it was a fluke win

 

[Mueez]

PP'ers, we as fans of (most probably) Pakistan should buck up the team even in their bad time, because when our team wins we cheer like we have won the world cup.
...

 

[PakSarZameen]

The reason we lost the game was due to issues most of us were aware of before the game. Yet nothing was done about it. That is why most of us are so frustrated.

- Hafeez should have been dropped after being banned
- Sarfraz getting worse with the bat.
- Malik's inability to play pace outside Asia, should play at 6 outside SC.
- Haris should have been in the middle order.
- Some didn't want Azhar in the team, although I think he deserves to be on this tour.

 

[htariq25]

It's funny how whenever Pakistan wins some posters are all over the word "fluke" but when Pakistan loses its simply "reality" and Pakistan's incompetence. I'm not suggesting new Zealand fluked this win but all I'm saying is when Pakistan wins please cut these ridiculous statements of it being a "fluke" and when Pakistan loses stop acting like it's the end of the world.

 

[htariq25]

Replace Hafeez with haris sohail and I see a very strong team. Hafeez seems to be the issue here as he performs once every 10-15 games and then confirms his spot for the next 10-15 games and the cycle continues. If Mickey and co drop Hafeez then the team will be perfect as the middle order looks less vulnerable. The problem at the moment is when babar doesn't score then Hafeez comes in early and his inability to play new ball means he gets out and then the pressure on Malik and sarfraz is enough to make them lose their wickets as Hafeez wastes so many deliveries that by the time Malik and saifi come we need well over a run a ball.

 

[Mamoon]

It’s not a question of turning our backs to the team. We have been a painfully mediocre ODI team for years now, more specifically, since the paradigm shift in ODI scores.

The game has simply bypassed us and our old ways do not work anymore. We are playing the wrong cricket in the wrong era, and a flash in the pan tournament win is not going to change that. It was what it was - a fluke.

People don’t like this word, but if a Champions Trophy is held tomorrow, Pakistan will not come close to winning it. The sun shone on Pakistan in June, and everything that could go right went right. Of course, the reverse is true for the opposition.

This thrashing in the first ODI was not a blip or a hiccup; it was a much needed reality check and a true reflection of where we stand as an ODI team.

 

[Saj]

Some basic problems with this team which were hidden by the Champions Trophy win.

If those issues are overlooked we will see more terrible performances.

 

[Usman Chadda]

It’s not a question of turning our backs to the team. We have been a painfully mediocre ODI team for years now, more specifically, since the paradigm shift in ODI scores.

The game has simply bypassed us and our old ways do not work anymore. We are playing the wrong cricket in the wrong era, and a flash in the pan tournament win is not going to change that. It was what it was - a fluke.

People don’t like this word, but if a Champions Trophy is held tomorrow, Pakistan will not come close to winning it. The sun shone on Pakistan in June, and everything that could go right went right. Of course, the reverse is true for the opposition.

This thrashing in the first ODI was not a blip or a hiccup; it was a much needed reality check and a true reflection of where we stand as an ODI team.

So basically if Pakistan wins, it's a fluke. The other team just got unlucky on the day, meaning they played well but everything went against them. Do you even read some of the stuff you write sometimes? Your arguments are as sensible as the first question Virat Kohli was asked at the CT final post-match press conference.

Oh yeah btw, New Zealand thrashed a full-strength India 4-0 the last time the superstars toured. A painfully mediocre Pakistan can be given the benefit of the doubt don't you think?

 

[Mamoon]

So basically if Pakistan wins, it's a fluke. The other team just got unlucky on the day, meaning they played well but everything went against them. Do you even read some of the stuff you write sometimes? Your arguments are as sensible as the first question Virat Kohli was asked at the CT final post-match press conference.

Oh yeah btw, New Zealand thrashed a full-strength India 4-0 the last time the superstars toured. A painfully mediocre Pakistan can be given the benefit of the doubt don't you think?

When a poor team wins a tournament then obviously a lot of luck is involved. Pakistan’s Champions Trophy win was hardly different to West Indies’ win in 2004 or India’s World Cup win in 1983.

Pakistan beat England and India in successive knockout games. Both teams are much better and would beat Pakistan 7/10 times. Both had off-days against us, one-off performances do happen.

Yes India got thrashed in New Zealand three years ago, but the same Indian team have set very high standards, standards that we will not come close to matching.

Nothing has changed for us post Champions Trophy. The gulf between us and the top ODI teams is simply too wide for us to win games consistently.

 

[world cup captain]

I wouldn't say that people have turned their backs on the team. As some have mentioned, it's disappointment on the fact that there are some issues in the team which we already knew of and I are not being fixed. When those players don't show their true colors, we have results like the Champions Trophy. This team has potential due to the likes of Hasan, Fakhar, Shadab and Fahim. It's time we create a team around these players who have performed consistently.

 

[MMHS]

It wasn't lost actually - 166 in 30 overs, is quite acceptable, teams normally double it in 50 overs if wickets at hand. PAK lost 5 for 40, which made DWL equation imbalanced, at 6 down in 30 overs; had Sarfu survived a bit, at 153/4 in 30 overs, I guess that DWL would have been neck a neck. Besides, Kiwi's attack is heavily dependent on their opening pair, which DWL doesn't factor. Chasing 266, we lost 4 for 33 in 12 overs; then went on to win inside 47 overs with 5 down. Probably till 35th (or 38th ?) over, we were actually behind in DWL, for what ended as a comfortable win.

Having said that, it was not about ONE LOSS, PAK might win next one based on some outstanding individual performance - But it was a poor performance, even considering 1st match of the tour. Some alarming observations are -

1. PAK's opening pair - with ball. Zero swing, poor length, negative line - it can't be worse

2. Sarfraz couldn't reach a regulation catch (he was snatching), didn't attempt 2nd one and put Babar at least 2 yards deeper than what lone slip should be (as he himself stood deep) - BECAUSE he is unfit,over wight, too old for keeping. On top of that he was out LBW to a leggi of all bowler. If Sarfraz coming at 6 can't handle a Kiwi leggi, picked for his batting ability, one has to feel sorry for him.

3. That batting order - imagine this line up to play WC in May-June UK, with MoHa, Malik, Azhar, Sarfraz almost 2 years closer to their 50th birth day.

It's not only about one loss to criticize - I have covered bowling, fielding & batting, may be Captaincy was good - no one needs to be doubtful then.

 

[waleed88]

Pakistani teams have a tendency to start 5 match series on a flat note historically... pretty true for most of our foreign tours ODIs....

 

[waleed88]

I owe that to flat preparation, not realizing how good your opponents are, lacking intensity, thinking you are better than what you are.

Players don't come from home thinking they are there to beat a team...

I have found historically our team has needed a kick in the back before they play on full strength.

Its just a general rule specific to all eras our team regardless of how good they are.

Never do we draw first blood espeicially away from home.

 

[waleed88]

Infamous series win in India in 2005, we had to go 2-0 down to realize that we are definitely in for a do or die situation...

Series win in Aus 2002, or the English series in 2010... all similar scenarios.

We also never historically win the 5th game, or the decider since 2011 if im not wrong

 

[ChoudherySix]

Loosing should not be tolerated, criticism should be present in the midst of this embarrassing lost. Sarfraz, Azhar, Hafeez will look at this loss and dread it so they can improve themselves.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

It’s not a question of turning our backs to the team. We have been a painfully mediocre ODI team for years now, more specifically, since the paradigm shift in ODI scores.

The game has simply bypassed us and our old ways do not work anymore. We are playing the wrong cricket in the wrong era, and a flash in the pan tournament win is not going to change that. It was what it was - a fluke.

People don’t like this word, but if a Champions Trophy is held tomorrow, Pakistan will not come close to winning it. The sun shone on Pakistan in June, and everything that could go right went right. Of course, the reverse is true for the opposition.

This thrashing in the first ODI was not a blip or a hiccup; it was a much needed reality check and a true reflection of where we stand as an ODI team.

Everyone except Hafeez is basically fine and it's now a top-class side.

Even after a total collapse, Pakistan could have gotten close to chasing it down because the tail has very good batsmen (better than some top order players) and they were playing well.

 

[MenInG]

Some of you close to bans for personal attacks on posters.

Answer posts with arguments or dont post.

 

[aloo paratha]

Pakistan always bounces back. Just watch.

 

[big_gamer007]

I have always had a feeling Pakistani ex players want their team to perform poorly so that they can demean the present team and talk about their glory days.. They forget with all the talent they had they never won anything big in their time(minus 1992 WC)..

Indian ex players are also bitter but those are B grade players like Kirti Azad, Ashok Malhotra, Maninder Singh, Kambli etc the Indian greats like Gavaskar, Sachin, Dravid etc are mostly supportive of the team or stay away from such negative media progoganda programs..

Pakistani greats either are paid to always say negative about the team or they seriously want Pakistani team to do bad so that their own time will always be remembered.. Even though in their own time they had some terrible performances much worse than today’s team.

 

[indipper]

Yes its astonishing. We knew that these conditions won't be easy for use so at least one defeat was always on the cards. Strange to see how everyone's reacting like we've lost the series or are out of tourney.

 

[indipper]

I have always had a feeling Pakistani ex players want their team to perform poorly so that they can demean the present team and talk about their glory days.. They forget with all the talent they had they never won anything big in their time(minus 1992 WC)..

Indian ex players are also bitter but those are B grade players like Kirti Azad, Ashok Malhotra, Maninder Singh, Kambli etc the Indian greats like Gavaskar, Sachin, Dravid etc are mostly supportive of the team or stay away from such negative media progoganda programs..

Pakistani greats either are paid to always say negative about the team or they seriously want Pakistani team to do bad so that their own time will always be remembered.. Even though in their own time they had some terrible performances much worse than today’s team.

Yes! Unfortunately our big players had big egos too. They want to be remembered as best ever Pakistani players. I have seen many instances where they deliberately refrained from teaching the art of reverse to few local bowlers.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

The thing is, if you have grown up in a cricketing environment, it's almost impossible to turn your back on the cricketing team.

It's an arduous task for me to follow cricket matches in the Aus/Nzl timezone but I still do for the love of cricket. What irks me the most is that we aren't moving forward with the times and are absolutely happy with the total mediocrity that we have become.

We have one world class bowler and one top 10 batsman in ODI cricket and we are happy with it.

The captain cannot be criticised without people labelling you as a racist and someone who is part of a major population demographic within the country.

The problem is plain and simple, we do not have the quality to be considered as a good side anymore in any format of the game.

In 96' when Sri Lanka won the world cup, that was the last time any team won the world cup that wasn't really expected. That shows how difficult it has become to win a major tournament for teams that aren't consistently over and above the cut. T20 was different when it started, some teams took time to understand the format but even that has now become a format where tournaments will be won by consistently strong teams and that's why we aren't making the last 4 let alone the last 2.

The Champions Trophy win was great, and it made all of us very happy. It cannot however remain the only quality moment for the next 25 years.

That's where the problem lies. I want our team to go to Australia and not get humiliated. I want us to go to New Zealand and play cricket that's good to watch. If that's turning the back on the team, then there's no harm in saying that yes, I and many like me have turned our backs on the team.

 

[Hasan123]

No one is turning there back on the team. But all people are doing is being critical of clear problems in the team which have been brought up before. Our batting order has been an issue for a while even when we won the CT. We all knew that batting line up wouldn't be good enough against the top teams. Yet were still selecting Azhar and Hafeez. Sarfraz keeping and fitness have been an issue for a while, the last game showed why people were worried about it and it played a big part in our defeat. Also Sarfraz got out to a leggie who is in the team for his batting! So Sarfraz batting is just as big an issue as his keeping and fitness.

We have players who needed to be dropped. We have a lot of work to do to compete with the best. We will still support the team, but we're not going to sit here and say we are the best in the world when we can see clear issues in the side. Our current issues I have been banging on about even during our winning run.

 

[j_kazmi]

I think we should hold our outrage till the end of the series. Not because I think we can win this series, but because this team is potentially better than many of the teams we’ve had in the last 5-10 years.

There a few very good players playing for the team and I think we should give the slightly more time. Yes there are players like hafeez still lingering around but let’s hope he finally gets replaced.