Pace battery suggestions for Pakistan in all three formats

[BunnyRabbit]

Although our top 3 batting lineup has been shaping up well in LOIs with Imam and Babar carrying the main load. In t20s Rizwan is doing extremely well. Khushdil Shah has started to come into his own and has shown some good amount of improvement in his game.

With recent inclusions of new names like Dhani, Wasim, Rauf alongside the obviously miraculous Shaheen, our pace attack since 2019 wc is looking at relatively newer guys who don't come with any baggage of nepotism or attitude issues.

I think the road has ended for Rahat, Imran, Amir, Sohail Khan, Talha, Ehsan Adil(probably) and Wahab Riaz now.

Considering the pacers/seamers we have at our disposal, who do you think can be included among the reserves/understudies and be given chances?

1. Shaheen
2. Hasan (still not overcoming his reversible bad habits)
3. Haris
4. Dhani
5. Hasnain(let's see how he is after rehab)
6. Wasim Jr
7. Fahim (a reliable 4th seamer in SENA and okayish for t20is)

In addition to that, there are a few names I would like to mention who should (IMO) get a look in atleast for the reserves or NCA.
1. Mir Hamza (was probably the only positive in the dismal campaign for KK in this PSL)
2. Sameen Gul (although not very high on pace, but generates some good swing. Could be a handful for tests)
3. Zeeshan Zameer (still nascent in his career but impressed a lot in u19 wc)
4. Rumman Raees (he is my biased selection as his injury record is terrible, but I think he is amongst the calmest and mature guys in our domestic circuit who utilizes his variations well. Could be serviceable in LOIs)
5. Waqas Maqsood (has never convinced me but usually picks up wickets in FC)


I think Mir Hamza could be tried for the up for grabs third seamer spot in tests.

 

[MenInG]

I am a little concerned about the downward spiral for Hassan Ali.

Even Shadab has managed to re-invent himself, Hassan is not doing enough.

 

[shujaatraza]

I would also add Naseem Shah to the mix.

 

[TheSultan]

Hassan Ali seems to be a confidence bowler. I thought the county season where he took a bucketful of wickets would spring him in to action. Average batting standards in country cricket yes, but sometimes players just need a confidence booster. Like Hasan’s domestic performances in 2021 prior to his return to the team.

However, even that didn’t work. I think he’s done. He just bowls utter filth when he puts on a Pakistan shirt

 

[MenInG]

I Am also worried that good replacements are not visible for Hassan which is other problem

 

[MenInG]

I would also add Naseem Shah to the mix.

His fitness is a huge question mark.

 

[Titan24]

I think we have some pretty good options especially for LOIs.

LOIs (In terms of current pecking order)

Shaheen Shah
Hassan Ali
Haris Rauf
Wasim Jr
Shahnawaz Dahani
Mohammad Hasnain
Naseem Shah

Backup talent
Akif Javed
Usman Shinwari (ODIs)
Mir Hamza
Khurram Shehzad
Faheem Ashraf
Amad Butt
Arshad Iqbal
Sameen Gul
Ruman Raees (T20Is, was impressive in last PSL but, fitness remains a concern)
Zia ul Haq

Upcoming Talent
Zeeshan Zameer
Mohammad Zeeshan
Ahmed Khan
etc

In Test cricket

Shaheen Shah
Hassan Ali
Naseem Shah
Mohammad Abbas
Shahnawaz Dahani
Faheem Ashraf (4th Seamer)

Backups
Haris Rauf
Khurram Shehzad
Arshad Iqbal
Mir Hamza
Sameen Gul
Irfanullah Shah
Amad Butt
Ehsan Adil
Mohammad Ali

Upcoming
Akif Javed
Kashif Ali
Attar Mehmood
etc

I might have missed some but the options are quite a few, key would be managing them well as per the conditions and develop them. Also it would be important to keep bowlers playing all 3 formats like Shaheen and Hassan with a proper rotation policy based upon the opposition and the conditions.

 

[Marooned]

I think we have some pretty good options especially for LOIs.

LOIs (In terms of current pecking order)

Shaheen Shah
Hassan Ali
Haris Rauf
Wasim Jr
Shahnawaz Dahani
Mohammad Hasnain
Naseem Shah

Backup talent
Akif Javed
Usman Shinwari (ODIs)
Mir Hamza
Khurram Shehzad
Faheem Ashraf
Amad Butt
Arshad Iqbal
Sameen Gul
Ruman Raees (T20Is, was impressive in last PSL but, fitness remains a concern)
Zia ul Haq

Upcoming Talent
Zeeshan Zameer
Mohammad Zeeshan
Ahmed Khan
etc

In Test cricket

Shaheen Shah
Hassan Ali
Naseem Shah
Mohammad Abbas
Shahnawaz Dahani
Faheem Ashraf (4th Seamer)

Backups
Haris Rauf
Khurram Shehzad
Arshad Iqbal
Mir Hamza
Sameen Gul
Irfanullah Shah
Amad Butt
Ehsan Adil
Mohammad Ali

Upcoming
Akif Javed
Kashif Ali
Attar Mehmood
etc

I might have missed some but the options are quite a few, key would be managing them well as per the conditions and develop them. Also it would be important to keep bowlers playing all 3 formats like Shaheen and Hassan with a proper rotation policy based upon the opposition and the conditions.

Yep it's funny when people simply believe we should stick to underperforming players (cue Abbas and Hasan in different formats) because we have no one else.
Abbas for eg. shouldn't play another test for pakistan. Try out Irfanullah, Hamza, Ehsan Adil, Khuram and Sameen before that.

Hasan similarly shouldn't play white ball cricket. Dahani, Waseem should both be over him. But also try Naseem, Khuram, Ehsan Adil before ever returning to Hasan for white ball.

 

[Aftab23]

I want to see salman irshad in Loi.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I Am also worried that good replacements are not visible for Hassan which is other problem

Hasan Ali has the Mohammad Sami problem. Buckles under the slightest of pressure. Even when the opposition is on back foot, he puts undue pressure on himself. Plus his knack of bowling no balls at crucial stages is infuriating.

Mohammad Wasim seems to be a similar cricketer to Hasan but someone without the "bara player" ego which has been a big problem for Hasan throughout. I hope Wasim can make himself more teachable and be eager to learn.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yep it's funny when people simply believe we should stick to underperforming players (cue Abbas and Hasan in different formats) because we have no one else.
Abbas for eg. shouldn't play another test for pakistan. Try out Irfanullah, Hamza, Ehsan Adil, Khuram and Sameen before that.

Hasan similarly shouldn't play white ball cricket. Dahani, Waseem should both be over him. But also try Naseem, Khuram, Ehsan Adil before ever returning to Hasan for white ball.

Hamza/Sameen should IMO replace Abbas now. Abbas has had his time and is only static/receding now.

Games and performance under belt in the same format should be something we should put emphasis on as well. Like giving someone who has performed well in FC and is in good form should be getting the nod.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think we have some pretty good options especially for LOIs.

LOIs (In terms of current pecking order)

Shaheen Shah
Hassan Ali
Haris Rauf
Wasim Jr
Shahnawaz Dahani
Mohammad Hasnain
Naseem Shah

Backup talent
Akif Javed
Usman Shinwari (ODIs)
Mir Hamza
Khurram Shehzad
Faheem Ashraf
Amad Butt
Arshad Iqbal
Sameen Gul
Ruman Raees (T20Is, was impressive in last PSL but, fitness remains a concern)
Zia ul Haq

Upcoming Talent
Zeeshan Zameer
Mohammad Zeeshan
Ahmed Khan
etc

In Test cricket

Shaheen Shah
Hassan Ali
Naseem Shah
Mohammad Abbas
Shahnawaz Dahani
Faheem Ashraf (4th Seamer)

Backups
Haris Rauf
Khurram Shehzad
Arshad Iqbal
Mir Hamza
Sameen Gul
Irfanullah Shah
Amad Butt
Ehsan Adil
Mohammad Ali

Upcoming
Akif Javed
Kashif Ali
Attar Mehmood
etc

I might have missed some but the options are quite a few, key would be managing them well as per the conditions and develop them. Also it would be important to keep bowlers playing all 3 formats like Shaheen and Hassan with a proper rotation policy based upon the opposition and the conditions.

Arshad Iqbal has some good ingredients. I hope he gets more opportunities starting with domestic cricket.

I think Akif could make himself a good long form bowler. t20s doesn't seem like his format till now.

 

[Firebat]

The Test options are very weak at the moment. Shaheen is assured a spot of course, but the rest of the options are not convincing. Naseem, Abbas, Hassan, Rauf. Do we give Dahani a go? It doesn't seem to be a very positive situation.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think we have some pretty good options especially for LOIs.

LOIs (In terms of current pecking order)

Shaheen Shah
Hassan Ali
Haris Rauf
Wasim Jr
Shahnawaz Dahani
Mohammad Hasnain
Naseem Shah

Backup talent
Akif Javed
Usman Shinwari (ODIs)
Mir Hamza
Khurram Shehzad
Faheem Ashraf
Amad Butt
Arshad Iqbal
Sameen Gul
Ruman Raees (T20Is, was impressive in last PSL but, fitness remains a concern)
Zia ul Haq

Upcoming Talent
Zeeshan Zameer
Mohammad Zeeshan
Ahmed Khan
etc

In Test cricket

Shaheen Shah
Hassan Ali
Naseem Shah
Mohammad Abbas
Shahnawaz Dahani
Faheem Ashraf (4th Seamer)

Backups
Haris Rauf
Khurram Shehzad
Arshad Iqbal
Mir Hamza
Sameen Gul
Irfanullah Shah
Amad Butt
Ehsan Adil
Mohammad Ali

Upcoming
Akif Javed
Kashif Ali
Attar Mehmood
etc

I might have missed some but the options are quite a few, key would be managing them well as per the conditions and develop them. Also it would be important to keep bowlers playing all 3 formats like Shaheen and Hassan with a proper rotation policy based upon the opposition and the conditions.

i don't have much expectations from Ehsan, Zia or Amad. They have been playing for a long time and still suffer from their old issues. Ehsan hasn't developed any swing. Amad still lacks control plus his pace is also regressing.

 

[KhanNn]

Akif Javed would be really good in tests I think. Consistently bowls a good line and length

 

[pratiktc]

In ODIs Shaheen and Rauf are a good pair and their 3rd seamer complement for a subcontinent World Cup has to be someone who can hit a long ball. Hasan is best choice for this with Faheem as backup

 

[shamaan]

In Lols

Shaheen
Rauf
Hassan Ali
Wasim Jnr
Husnain
Naseem
Fahim Ashraf

Back up
Akif Javed
Arshad Iqbal
Shinwari
Raees

Incoming talent
Zeeshan Zamir
Mohammad Zeeshan

In tests
Shaheen
Hassan Ali
Dahani
Arshad Iqbal
Fahim Ashraf

Back up
Akif Javed
Khurram Shahzad
Irfanullah Shah
Sameen Gull
Mir Hamza

 

[BunnyRabbit]

In Lols

Shaheen
Rauf
Hassan Ali
Wasim Jnr
Husnain
Naseem
Fahim Ashraf

Back up
Akif Javed
Arshad Iqbal
Shinwari
Raees

Incoming talent
Zeeshan Zamir
Mohammad Zeeshan

In tests
Shaheen
Hassan Ali
Dahani
Arshad Iqbal
Fahim Ashraf

Back up
Akif Javed
Khurram Shahzad
Irfanullah Shah
Sameen Gull
Mir Hamza

I don't see Akif as an LOI bowler tbh. Unless he proves himself to be one through domestic circuit.

 

[topspin]

I think we have some pretty good options especially for LOIs.

LOIs (In terms of current pecking order)

Shaheen Shah
Hassan Ali
Haris Rauf
Wasim Jr
Shahnawaz Dahani
Mohammad Hasnain
Naseem Shah

Backup talent
Akif Javed
Usman Shinwari (ODIs)
Mir Hamza
Khurram Shehzad
Faheem Ashraf
Amad Butt
Arshad Iqbal
Sameen Gul
Ruman Raees (T20Is, was impressive in last PSL but, fitness remains a concern)
Zia ul Haq

Upcoming Talent
Zeeshan Zameer
Mohammad Zeeshan
Ahmed Khan
etc

In Test cricket

Shaheen Shah
Hassan Ali
Naseem Shah
Mohammad Abbas
Shahnawaz Dahani
Faheem Ashraf (4th Seamer)

Backups
Haris Rauf
Khurram Shehzad
Arshad Iqbal
Mir Hamza
Sameen Gul
Irfanullah Shah
Amad Butt
Ehsan Adil
Mohammad Ali

Upcoming
Akif Javed
Kashif Ali
Attar Mehmood
etc

I might have missed some but the options are quite a few, key would be managing them well as per the conditions and develop them. Also it would be important to keep bowlers playing all 3 formats like Shaheen and Hassan with a proper rotation policy based upon the opposition and the conditions.

Did Mohsin Khan tell you these are good options?

There's only one decent bowler and that's Shaheen. Everyone else is average or substandard (mostly the latter).

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Mindset: Pace “Battery” is what WI and Pakistan had decades ago. These are good pacers, yet unproven anywhere in the world - with the exception of possibly Shaheen.

Problem with these terms is that our players start buying it and then try to bowl too fast in order to “blow opposition out of the water.” That never works without other skills and usually backfires.

Best call them Pakistani pace attack - which is reasonably positive, yet generic.

 

[shamaan]

I don't see Akif as an LOI bowler tbh. Unless he proves himself to be one through domestic circuit.

Do you see him as a test bowler then?

 

[KyoOne]

Shaheen
Haris Rauf
M Hasnain
Dahani

This should be our attack mix across formats, skillful, pacy, aggressive, young. Unless its a green test pitch where Abbas and Mir Hamza may play

Please no Hasan Ali or M Wasim

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Do you see him as a test bowler then?

He has better prospects of becoming a test bowler than an LOI one.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Shaheen
Haris Rauf
M Hasnain
Dahani

This should be our attack mix across formats, skillful, pacy, aggressive, young. Unless its a green test pitch where Abbas and Mir Hamza may play

Please no Hasan Ali or M Wasim

I believe for both tests and ODIs, you need two pacers who are proper new ball bowlers. Shaheen is one.
The second spot is up for grabs in both longer formats. Haris and Dhani are more of the mold of first change. Let's see how Hasnain does after his remodeled action.

 

[Farabi]

I believe for both tests and ODIs, you need two pacers who are proper new ball bowlers. Shaheen is one.
The second spot is up for grabs in both longer formats. Haris and Dhani are more of the mold of first change. Let's see how Hasnain does after his remodeled action.

Naseem looked a very improved bowler vs Aus at home in tests

 

[Firebat]

We really need Naseem to kick on in Tests. Aside from Shaheen, the closet is really bare for quality red-ball bowlers.

 

[jeetu]

Pakistan has good all condition pace attack. Shaheen should be kept off most T20's to preserve him for ODI's and Tests. Bigger issue is declining spin attack.

 

[shamaan]

He has better prospects of becoming a test bowler than an LOI one.

I disagree with that.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I disagree with that.

And I respect that.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Pakistan has good all condition pace attack. Shaheen should be kept off most T20's to preserve him for ODI's and Tests. Bigger issue is declining spin attack.

Although I don't think we have a good all condition attack. Our pace attack is pretty toothless in Australia and NZ. Fails to adjust there all the time. In Australia, the bounce along with bigger grounds are a big problem for our bowlers mostly because Australia are very good at strike rotation (as bigger grounds have more room for find time to run a single or two) and our fielders are quite slow to stop the singles or prevent converting the singles in twos. Plus no good throws either.

Regarding spin attack, yes, it's a big concern especially in SL and Ban. Home pitches aren't much of turners apart from days 4 and 5 so pace attack has to do majority of the job. But Nauman isn't the answer and Sajid bowls a bit too slow. I believe Yasir can still do the job in Asia for a couple of years but the CS isn't selecting him.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

We really need Naseem to kick on in Tests. Aside from Shaheen, the closet is really bare for quality red-ball bowlers.

Won't find out if we don't try other options to be honest. Need to respect FC cricket to pick bowlers for Tests. For that Sameen, Irshad, Waqas(don't rate him much personally), Hamza.

Hamza was dropped after a solitary test. Resorted back to Amir in South Africa and Imran in Australia. Even selected Musa ahead of him who had barely played any cricket.

 

[daytrader]

The key bowler in our pace battery is Shaheen. He's the only pick across all formats. The rest we should pick horses for courses until someone really makes a spot for themselves.
One thing for sure though is we need 4 pace options in Australia for the T20WC. 3 won't cut it if one is having an off day. In those situations, I'm afraid resorting to spin will see us get hammered.

 

[shamaan]

The key bowler in our pace battery is Shaheen. He's the only pick across all formats. The rest we should pick horses for courses until someone really makes a spot for themselves.
One thing for sure though is we need 4 pace options in Australia for the T20WC. 3 won't cut it if one is having an off day. In those situations, I'm afraid resorting to spin will see us get hammered.

Pakistan will definitely go with nawaz and shadab in the starting xi come the world t20.

 

[daytrader]

Pakistan will definitely go with nawaz and shadab in the starting xi come the world t20.

And rightly so, we should also have a 6th bowling option

 

[shamaan]

And rightly so, we should also have a 6th bowling option

6th bowling option will most likely be Iftikhar and Khushdil unless fahim plays.