Pakistan’s head-to-head lead over India in One Day Internationals and Test matches exists only because they do not play regular cricket

[Rajdeep]

So India now leads Pakistan in T20 cricket with an 11–3 record. That’s a pretty clear case of domination by one team over the other.

The only reason Pakistan still leads in the overall head-to-head record in ODIs and Tests is because the two teams don’t play each other regularly anymore.

Honestly, if there had been consistent fixtures between India and Pakistan across formats, I believe India would have surpassed Pakistan in ODIs and Tests too by now.

What do you all think? Would regular matches have shifted the balance completely in India’s favor?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Acha year what shall we do with this info?

Ask your government to do the hokie kokie and make bilaterals acceptable to sell for your so called martyrs blood in the same way they did for Asia cup and you can rectify the record.

 

[Boyka]

You forget those years you didn’t want to play when we had a good test team and a decent ODI team.

 

[Rajdeep]

Acha year what shall we do with this info?

Ask your government to do the hokie kokie and make bilaterals acceptable to sell for your so called martyrs blood in the same way they did for Asia cup and you can rectify the record.

Just a reminder to folks who are bringing H2H records in match thread as to why it still exists.

 

[Major]

I think someone needs to remind op what happened during the last india pakistan series.

Misbahs team won 2-1 easily

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Just a reminder to folks who are bringing H2H records in match thread as to why it still exists.

Why does it exist? Can you explain the reasoning behind why you are playing an Asia cup and not bilateral?

 

[JaDed]

You forget those years you didn’t want to play when we had a good test team and a decent ODI team.

Please tell that to new folks that think boycott is a new funda. Irrespective inspite of boycotts India-Pakistan played a lot, so much so that early 2000s became annoying.

 

[Rajdeep]

You forget those years you didn’t want to play when we had a good test team and a decent ODI team.

Here he comes with another Lahori logic. Didnt Sarfraz Ahmed said the same after CT 2017 that Endians are scared to play us and then got absolutely mauled next in Asia cup 2018 and Wc 2019.

Pakistanis like you must understand, their own kheyali pulaos are for domestic consumption. Reality is visible of live TV.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I think someone needs to remind op what happened during the last india pakistan series.

Misbahs team won 2-1 easily

Someone should remind OP that he was supposed to keep up his fake boycott of India vs Pakistan matches. I said earlier that this boycott gang would be the first to watch the match and talk about it here, exposing their drama. So, how many tickets got sold?

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

So India now leads Pakistan in T20 cricket with an 11–3 record. That’s a pretty clear case of domination by one team over the other.

The only reason Pakistan still leads in the overall head-to-head record in ODIs and Tests is because the two teams don’t play each other regularly anymore.

Honestly, if there had been consistent fixtures between India and Pakistan across formats, I believe India would have surpassed Pakistan in ODIs and Tests too by now.

What do you all think? Would regular matches have shifted the balance completely in India’s favor?

12-3

include the 07 match where pak couldn't hit the stumps

 

[Major]

This is why alot of us dislike interacting with indians.

We hold a better win loss record against them. But than indians for years reminded us how only world cups matter and they hold that record.

Now when they have more wins, that too in t20, all of a sudden win loss overall records are relevant again because it suits the indian narrative.

The indian narrativr building is just too desperate now

 

[Rajdeep]

Why does it exist? Can you explain the reasoning behind why you are playing an Asia cup and not bilateral?

Oh yes...I can explain. As you know by now Rajdeep has answer for everything and knows it all.

India dont want any bilateral engagement with Pakistan as they dont want Pakistan board is making money tapping Indian market. They only agree to play in multinational event for couple of reasons:

1. If they boycott playing Pak in ICC/ACC events, it will only harm India as they will lose points. Pak will gladly take a walkover and 2 points from India game. Plus they will get the match fee anyway.

2. The reason why these 2 teams are in same group always because Ind vs Pak is a high voltage emotional match due to political tension. So it brings money for ICC/ACC which helps running and maintaining other of overall cricket and these organizations.

Hope I explained you properly bro.

Wondering, if I change my name from Rajdeep to Grok. Same intellect.

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

This is why alot of us dislike interacting with indians.

We hold a better win loss record against them. But than indians for years reminded us how only world cups matter and they hold that record.

Now when they have more wins, that too in t20, all of a sudden win loss overall records are relevant again because it suits the indian narrative.

The indian narrativr building is just too desperate now

Tbh world cups are more important.

H2H is just a fact that is mentioned. Not really relevant compared to world cups.

India has more of all 3 white ball icc trophies than pakistan.

 

[prash88]

In T20s where Pakistan has more chance to defeat India, the record is 12-3. Imagine how bad the H2H since 2007 would be if they play regular ODI and test cricket.

 

[hur rizvi]

In T20s where Pakistan has more chance to defeat India, the record is 12-3. Imagine how bad the H2H since 2007 would be if they play regular ODI and test cricket.

Easy here…

India are light years ahead now but till 2017 Pakistan were pretty decent in tests

Pakistan were a top to mid test team during their uae fortress days. A team of Misbah, Younus, Azhar ali, Yasir shah, ajmal would definitely have been competitive against India even on their own den.

So test record would have looked more or less same.

I agree Pakistans superior odi record would have taken a huge dent

 

[Mesozoic]

I don't think this needed a separate thread to convey but ok

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

In other news, water is wet

 

[hur rizvi]

On the other hand if Pakistan India played more in 90s it could have been worse for India

 

[Vegitto1]

Through out the 90s, India avoided playing Pakistans when Pakistan was a much superior team, imagine what the H2H would have been like if India had the balls to play Pakistan then. (Might as well consider all hypothetical scenarios)

 

[IronShield]

So India now leads Pakistan in T20 cricket with an 11–3 record. That’s a pretty clear case of domination by one team over the other.

The only reason Pakistan still leads in the overall head-to-head record in ODIs and Tests is because the two teams don’t play each other regularly anymore.

Honestly, if there had been consistent fixtures between India and Pakistan across formats, I believe India would have surpassed Pakistan in ODIs and Tests too by now.

What do you all think? Would regular matches have shifted the balance completely in India’s favor?

Whats the point of this hypothetical thread? It is what it is.

If you care so much, play in bilaterals. Last time they did, Pakistan won 2-1.

It will also give Pakistan incentive to improve and no hiding place for the passengers in Pakistan team right now.

 

[IronShield]

In T20s where Pakistan has more chance to defeat India, the record is 12-3. Imagine how bad the H2H since 2007 would be if they play regular ODI and test cricket.

Last ODI series is in 2012/2013, which Pakistan won in India 2-1.

 

[Snowflake]

Okay - play and find out.

Want to justify the losing record but also stick to “boycott saaar boycott”

 

[Bewal Express]

So India now leads Pakistan in T20 cricket with an 11–3 record. That’s a pretty clear case of domination by one team over the other.

The only reason Pakistan still leads in the overall head-to-head record in ODIs and Tests is because the two teams don’t play each other regularly anymore.

Honestly, if there had been consistent fixtures between India and Pakistan across formats, I believe India would have surpassed Pakistan in ODIs and Tests too by now.

What do you all think? Would regular matches have shifted the balance completely in India’s favor?

Well you chose not to and if we did, they would be pretty much 50/50. I am not sure what the ODI stats are since 2000 but in tests its 4-3 to Ind. Hardly an earth shattering advantage

 

[LongHorn]

Through out the 90s, India avoided playing Pakistans when Pakistan was a much superior team, imagine what the H2H would have been like if India had the balls to play Pakistan then. (Might as well consider all hypothetical scenarios)

A generation of Indians grew up scared of Pakistan ripping through their wickets

Indians players looked lethargic back in those days; Venkatapathy raju for e.g.

 

[chakdeindian]

This is why alot of us dislike interacting with indians.

We hold a better win loss record against them. But than indians for years reminded us how only world cups matter and they hold that record.

Now when they have more wins, that too in t20, all of a sudden win loss overall records are relevant again because it suits the indian narrative.

The indian narrativr building is just too desperate now

Everyone knows how Pakistan used to win those games with the lack of strict cricket rules..once Pak used to produce high pacy and swing bowlers, however post 2000 they weren't able to produce one genuine pace bowler who becomes a great bowler like wasim,Imran..etc..many bowlers like an
amir, asif just waded after initial burst..Shaheen shah and Naseem are not able to bowl more than 4 overs..

All happening now is real pakistan is getting exposed...

Also even with higher H2H record, the prime pakistan team could not defeat India even once in a world cup..it's like scoring Good in class exams (by cheating) but failing in the board exam where there is strict invigilation...also India won its world cup 10 years before pakistan won it which is a shame for so called prime pakistan team., that too with the help of Qudrat ka Nizam..

So, It's Pak who is desperate to save its face by bringing past records..

 

[Major]

Everyone knows how Pakistan used to win those games with the lack of strict cricket rules..once Pak used to produce high pacy and swing bowlers, however post 2000 they weren't able to produce one genuine pace bowler who becomes a great bowler like wasim,Imran..etc..many bowlers like an
amir, asif just waded after initial burst..Shaheen shah and Naseem are not able to bowl more than 4 overs..

All happening now is real pakistan is getting exposed...

Also even with higher H2H record, the prime pakistan team could not defeat India even once in a world cup..it's like scoring Good in class exams (by cheating) but failing in the board exam where there is strict invigilation...also India won its world cup 10 years before pakistan won it which is a shame for so called prime pakistan team., that too with the help of Qudrat ka Nizam..

So, It's Pak who is desperate to save its face by bringing past records..

Did i hit a nerve there?

 

[Sir Alex]

Since 2010 (last 15 years),

ODIs - India 13-4
T20Is - India 10-3

Overall - India 23-7

It is not even a contest really

 

[Hikaru]

BCCI has done a great job to minimize it's exposure to Pakistan Cricket. Keep it that way, whatever the H2H.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

This is why alot of us dislike interacting with indians.

We hold a better win loss record against them. But than indians for years reminded us how only world cups matter and they hold that record.

Now when they have more wins, that too in t20, all of a sudden win loss overall records are relevant again because it suits the indian narrative.

The indian narrativr building is just too desperate now

Hypocrisy ki bhi kui seema hoti ha fits perfect with OP

WC record matters if India is behind in Head to head.

Pakistan was way Stronger in 90s.. If India vs Pak happened Regularly , the Gap would have been Bigger for India to catch up now. Imagine playing Test Cricket with Pak every two years like ashes in 90s. Scoreline would have been 20-10 not 12-9 like it is.

Imagine Record of 8-0 in WC games and 6-0 in ODIS since 2017 and Still not able to catch up

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

Hypocrisy ki bhi kui seema hoti ha fits perfect with OP

WC record matters if India is behind in Head to head.

Pakistan was way Stronger in 90s.. If India vs Pak happened Regularly , the Gap would have been Bigger for India to catch up now. Imagine playing Test Cricket with Pak every two years like ashes in 90s. Scoreline would have been 20-10 not 12-9 like it is.

Imagine Record of 8-0 in WC games and 6-0 in ODIS since 2017 and Still not able to catch up

Naaah this is something Pakistani fans have made up in their mind or heard from their elders.

India in the 2010s and 2020s have been way superior to Pak than Pak was in the 80s and 90s.

There have been periods in the 10s and 20s that India has been best team in one format or other.

Pakistan in their entire history has never been the best team in any format.

Also this test cricket thing is khayali pulao cause the 80s and 90s team did play against each other and they never did "dominate" so much that it would be 20-10. In fact Sachin's debut series in 1989 was 0-0 in spite of being a really poor India team.

1980s
Pak 23-Ind 10 - W/L 2.3

1990s
Pak 28-Ind 18 - W/L 1.55

2010s
Ind 15-Pak 5 - W/L 3

2020s
Ind 8-Pak 2 - W/L 4

You can see how much superior India is compared to Pak.

Low sample size saved Pakistan.

Even in the late 60s and early 70s when India had a way superior test team (won in NZ/England/WI) Pak did not play cause of the 65 and 71 wars.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Naaah this is something Pakistani fans have made up in their mind or heard from their elders.

India in the 2010s and 2020s have been way superior to Pak than Pak was in the 80s and 90s.

There have been periods in the 10s and 20s that India has been best team in one format or other.

Pakistan in their entire history has never been the best team in any format.

Also this test cricket thing is khayali pulao cause the 80s and 90s team did play against each other and they never did "dominate" so much that it would be 20-10. In fact Sachin's debut series in 1989 was 0-0 in spite of being a really poor India team.

1980s
Pak 23-Ind 10 - W/L 2.3

1990s
Pak 28-Ind 18 - W/L 1.55

2010s
Ind 15-Pak 5 - W/L 3

2020s
Ind 8-Pak 2 - W/L 4

You can see how much superior India is compared to Pak.

Low sample size saved Pakistan.

Even in the late 60s and early 70s when India had a way superior test team (won in NZ/England/WI) Pak did not play cause of the 65 and 71 wars.

why did you Skip 2000s?

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

why did you Skip 2000s?

Because that is not a period of dominance for either team. Same reason I do not have 50s or 60s or 70s.

It is Pak fans who keep quoting 80s and 90s as some mythical period of "dominance" so just refuting that by comparing with 10s and 20s.

 

[Hitman]

We have no one but ourselves to blame for that. Not playing Pakistan is the BCCI and Government of India's stance.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Because that is not a period of dominance for either team. Same reason I do not have 50s or 60s or 70s.

It is Pak fans who keep quoting 80s and 90s as some mythical period of "dominance" so just refuting that by comparing with 10s and 20s.

lol

There was no dominance by Indian Team in 2000s and even in 2010s until year 2015 H2H was pretty much same Despite the fact that Indian Team was much Better than Pak Post 2003 Era. Real Breakaway Happened after 2017. the Gap between india and Pak has increased a lot. Indian team progressing and PCT declining has caused that gap to grow. Plus all of the Games post 2012 are One off Tournament matches. and Pak tean being weaker side does nt handle pressure in one off games . In 2000s Pak was able to compete despite being lesser in quality because India and Pak played Regularly outside one off Tournament Games and it helped PCT because once you play regular you can make error adjustments in home and away series.

Stop Thinking Indians are Superior Breed and thats why they have record against Pak to boast about . Its Sports. If you Follow the process and Play the Sports on merit , Better team will win.

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

lol

There was no dominance by Indian Team in 2000s and even in 2010s until year 2015 H2H was pretty much same Despite the fact that Indian Team was much Better than Pak Post 2003 Era. Real Breakaway Happened after 2017. the Gap between india and Pak has increased a lot. Indian team progressing and PCT declining has caused that gap to grow. Plus all of the Games post 2012 are One off Tournament matches. and Pak tean being weaker side does nt handle pressure in one off games . In 2000s Pak was able to compete despite being lesser in quality because India and Pak played Regularly outside one off Tournament Games and it helped PCT because once you play regular you can make error adjustments in home and away series.

Stop Thinking Indians are Superior Breed and thats why they have record against Pak to boast about . Its Sports. If you Follow the process and Play the Sports on merit , Better team will win.

That's why I did not include 2000s but 10s and 20s.

Ind is better because the Ind system is better because India is richer.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I think this a discussion no one here is interested in given we are all cricket fans and are aware of the facts.

At a personal level, I feel it’s cruel for Indians to deny Pakistanis the one thing they have over us i.e., the H2H in ODIs and in Tests.

We have a proud ICC tournaments record against them. Let’s be happy with what we have and let them be proud of the H2H record for as long as it is in their favour.

It’s unfair that we want to have everything. They’re also humans with feelings, they’re also a country with a very capable army and nuclear weapons. I don’t understand why some of us want to rub it so bad that. Balance is a beautiful thing. It keeps you grounded.

The H2H must serve a purpose to keep Indians grounded and to strive for continuous excellence.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

That's why I did not include 2000s but 10s and 20s.

Ind is better because the Ind system is better because India is richer.

India was Richer in 2000s too and India produced Better Cricketers in 2000s as well

Tell me how was Pak able to beat India in India 2005 . Look at Indian Batting Line up and then look at Pakistan bowling.

Rana Naveed
Rao Anjum
Shahid Afridi

Rana Naveed and Rao Anjum . Pretty much no bodies compared to Sehwag , Tendulkar , Yuvraj , Ganguly , Dravid

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

India was Richer in 2000s too and India produced Better Cricketers in 2000s as well

Tell me how was Pak able to beat India in India 2005 . Look at Indian Batting Line up and then look at Pakistan bowling.

Rana Naveed
Rao Anjum
Shahid Afridi

Rana Naveed and Rao Anjum . Pretty much no bodies compared to Sehwag , Tendulkar , Yuvraj , Ganguly , Dravid

No they weren't. Indian pci only crossed Pak in the late 2000s.

Even India beat Pakistan in Pakistan with

Pathan and Balaji and Sachin bowling spin.

Ind-Pak were evenish from 03-07 with strong batting and weak bowling.

80s Pak stronger
90s Pak less stronger
00s evenish although India slightly better (especially post 07) and won more series/cups
10s India stronger
20s India more stronger

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan are open to play I guess. It is India who do not want to play.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

No they weren't. Indian pci only crossed Pak in the late 2000s.

Even India beat Pakistan in Pakistan with

Pathan and Balaji and Sachin bowling spin.

Ind-Pak were evenish from 03-07 with strong batting and weak bowling.

80s Pak stronger
90s Pak less stronger
00s evenish although India slightly better (especially post 07) and won more series/cups
10s India stronger
20s India more stronger

so 10s India was Stronger

why did Pak beat India in India again ? 2012 series against World Champions

a series scoreline that should have been 3-0 in favor of Pak , India Escaped Certain defeat in Third ODI too

Exposure makes a difference

Just like Young Talent of India already experiences Int level exposure in IPL before getting into International cricket as much better Honed to handle pressure of one off Games

If India and Pak played Regularly , That would mean exposure for Pakistani players hence the win ratio you are talking about 4 would be much lesser

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

so 10s India was Stronger

why did Pak beat India in India again ? 2012 series against World Champions

a series scoreline that should have been 3-0 in favor of Pak , India Escaped Certain defeat in Third ODI too

Exposure makes a difference

Just like Young Talent of India already experiences Int level exposure in IPL before getting into International cricket as much better Honed to handle pressure of one off Games

If India and Pak played Regularly , That would mean exposure for Pakistani players hence the win ratio you are talking about 4 would be much lesser

Same reason India have won series/tournaments against Pak in the 80s and 90s?

Being stronger does not mean that the weaker team never wins.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Same reason India have won series/tournaments against Pak in the 80s and 90s?

Being stronger does not mean that the weaker team never wins.

So you think India would have defeated Pak one sided in test Cricket during 2010-2017 Period of Misbah’s Test Team? Many Indians think they would have. Despite the fact that Pak was quite dominant in UAE against all touring Teams.

Once India Restores normal cricketing ties with Pak and starts playing Regularly , Then you should come here and talk about Decade wise dominance.

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

So you think India would have defeated Pak one sided in test Cricket during 2010-2017 Period of Misbah’s Test Team? Many Indians think they would have. Despite the fact that Pak was quite dominant in UAE against all touring Teams.

Once India Restores normal cricketing ties with Pak and starts playing Regularly , Then you should come here and talk about Decade wise dominance.

No.

India would have dominated from 2007-2010 when they were no 1 and Pak had regressed.

2010-2016 would have been evenish

2016 onward - one way traffic

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

No.

India would have dominated from 2007-2010 when they were no 1 and Pak had regressed.

2010-2016 would have been evenish

2016 onward - one way traffic

so thats what i said.

2010s was not one sided whole decade

Real breakaway Happened after 2017

2007 India Should have won 3-0 at home but scoreline was 1-0. So i cant say it would have been any different in Pak’s leg of 2008 series that did nt happen

 

[Theanonymousone]

This is why alot of us dislike interacting with indians.

We hold a better win loss record against them. But than indians for years reminded us how only world cups matter and they hold that record.

Now when they have more wins, that too in t20, all of a sudden win loss overall records are relevant again because it suits the indian narrative.

The indian narrativr building is just too desperate now

OP has a point.

Data analysis should always be viewed in context and outliers.
India has been head and shoulders above Pakistan during last 15-20 years.

So, probability wise, the record exists only due to not playing frequently.

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

so thats what i said.

2010s was not one sided whole decade

Real breakaway Happened after 2017

2007 India Should have won 3-0 at home but scoreline was 1-0. So i cant say it would have been any different in Pak’s leg of 2008 series that did nt happen

Even if it happened in 2008 Ind would have won the series with some draws.

That Pak era bowling was weak.

 

[Theanonymousone]

so 10s India was Stronger

why did Pak beat India in India again ? 2012 series against World Champions

a series scoreline that should have been 3-0 in favor of Pak , India Escaped Certain defeat in Third ODI too

Exposure makes a difference

Just like Young Talent of India already experiences Int level exposure in IPL before getting into International cricket as much better Honed to handle pressure of one off Games

If India and Pak played Regularly , That would mean exposure for Pakistani players hence the win ratio you are talking about 4 would be much lesser

Agree that exposure makes a difference.

Infact, I would say if Pakistan was allowed to play IPL they wouldve fared decently to be honest.

But the key issues in Pakistan cricket is unprofessionalism and politics. I dont think, how Pakistani players would overcome that.

I can see that Rauf certainly improved with BBL but I dont understand what happened to Babar and others.

No point in criticizing Pakistani players time and again. Somewhere I feel bad for few of them as their board is failing at nurturing the talent. No strategy at all. Almost everyone in Top 7 is trier as an opener. How does that make sense?

Finding someone like Sehwag as opener through trails is futile. They at-least showed that they can hit well. Farhan and Saim are good. I can see how much pressure Saim is under as he looks in serious lack of confidence. Someone should have a word with him.

While I hate Abrar for his insta posts, he has decent talent I feel. I am sure they will waste him by not playing red ball cricket.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Okay - play and find out.

Want to justify the losing record but also stick to “boycott saaar boycott”

OP seems conflicted, he talks about boycotting the India vs Pakistan match but can't resist watching and discussing it.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Even if it happened in 2008 Ind would have won the series with some draws.

That Pak era bowling was weak.

Muhammad Asif was banned in late 2006. so i dnt think it was assured victory for India against Pak in possible 2008 away series

but no point discussing that

Decade Wise dominance is nt a stat if Half of the decade is done and we have only played 10 games in 2020s

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Agree that exposure makes a difference.

Infact, I would say if Pakistan was allowed to play IPL they wouldve fared decently to be honest.

But the key issues in Pakistan cricket is unprofessionalism and politics. I dont think, how Pakistani players would overcome that.

I can see that Rauf certainly improved with BBL but I dont understand what happened to Babar and others.

No point in criticizing Pakistani players time and again. Somewhere I feel bad for few of them as their board is failing at nurturing the talent. No strategy at all. Almost everyone in Top 7 is trier as an opener. How does that make sense?

Finding someone like Sehwag as opener through trails is futile. They at-least showed that they can hit well. Farhan and Saim are good. I can see how much pressure Saim is under as he looks in serious lack of confidence. Someone should have a word with him.

While I hate Abrar for his insta posts, he has decent talent I feel. I am sure they will waste him by not playing red ball cricket.

Ind vs Pak Rivalry of By Gone era just raises expectations and pressure on already Fragile Pak Players who play for Spot in team. Thats why if Regular Cricket happened between India vs Pak , Results would have been much less Skewed in Favor of India but It would have still been in favor of India. Matter of fact is that India has only lost 1 T20 series in last 6 years and That too against WI which was not expected. So India is not Just winning against Pak , They are winning against Everyone

 

[Mesozoic]

I consider the turning point in this "rivalry" to be MSD taking up the Indian captaincy in the 2007 T20 World Cup and winning two hard fought games against Pakistan.

Since 2007 (all formats) -

Matches - 43
India Won - 31
Pakistan Won -12

W/L ratio for India - 2.6

Anyone who thinks India wouldn't have destroyed the overall record in this period (if we played regular bilaterals like the mid 2000s) is either delusional or a liar.

 

[RamLakhan]

I always think if Pakistan plays against India regularly (in bilaterals), it somehow brings the best out of them and they become a competitive side. It was a case even in late 90s, when India started to become better side with players like Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag and then through 2000s - Yuvaraj, Dhoni... still Pakistan was competitive somehow. But they somehow falter in World Cups, even when they had strong teams in past. So Pakistan doing badly now against India (they play only in ICC tournaments & Asia Cups) doesn't imply that they will do badly in bilaterals.

Pakistan's cricket genes is such that they are keen to play against India. And that will bring the best out of them (players like Shoaib Akther emerged solely with the same intensity and passion!) So don't be surprised if Pakistan become a stronger team when they start playing against India regularly again... You will see a lot of quality players start emerging...

India on the other hand has developed into a professional team, and whether they play against Pakistan or not doesn't matter to them. (But its true that India wish to play against Pakistan for financial reasons - to make more money! That's why there are ICC Matches & both teams pooled in same group! But Pakistan want to play against India more for passion)

In the past India lacked professionalism and that's the reason why they used to lose badly against Pakistan in bilaterals but won against them in world cups because Pakistan's team tend to become nervous/over-excited when they play against India and it can create issues in bigger games! But Pakistan's intensity used to help them dominate India in normal matches.

Hence if Pakistan plays India regularly, I am sure they are going to be as competitive as SENA teams against India. To think that they will reach the level of West Indies is stupidity! Except ICC Matches, I think Pakistan can give tough time to India in bilaterals. Don't be surprised if they do something similar to what NZ did to India in home tests especially whenever India slip in professionalism (like how they played worn out cricketers against NZ and paid for it)

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

I always think if Pakistan plays against India regularly (in bilaterals), it somehow brings the best out of them and they become a competitive side. It was a case even in late 90s, when India started to become better side with players like Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag and then through 2000s - Yuvaraj, Dhoni... still Pakistan was competitive somehow. But they somehow falter in World Cups, even when they had strong teams in past. So Pakistan doing badly now against India (they play only in ICC tournaments & Asia Cups) doesn't imply that they will do badly in bilaterals.

Pakistan's cricket genes is such that they are keen to play against India. And that will bring the best out of them (players like Shoaib Akther emerged solely with the same intensity and passion!) So don't be surprised if Pakistan become a stronger team when they start playing against India regularly again... You will see a lot of quality players start emerging...

India on the other hand has developed into a professional team, and whether they play against Pakistan or not doesn't matter to them. (But its true that India wish to play against Pakistan for financial reasons - to make more money! That's why there are ICC Matches & both teams pooled in same group! But Pakistan want to play against India more for passion)

In the past India lacked professionalism and that's the reason why they used to lose badly against Pakistan in bilaterals but won against them in world cups because Pakistan's team tend to become nervous/over-excited when they play against India and it can create issues in bigger games! But Pakistan's intensity used to help them dominate India in normal matches.

Hence if Pakistan plays India regularly, I am sure they are going to be as competitive as SENA teams against India. To think that they will reach the level of West Indies is stupidity! Except ICC Matches, I think Pakistan can give tough time to India in bilaterals. Don't be surprised if they do something similar to what NZ did to India in home tests especially whenever India slip in professionalism (like how they played worn out cricketers against NZ and paid for it)

Naah.

They are a team on the level of SL/Bangladesh/West Indies and they will perform like that.

What do you mean by reach the level of West Indies? They already are there.

WI have drawn both their last tests series vs Pak home/away, beat them in an ODI series and also drew in Aus where Pak has not won a match since the mid 90s.

 

[Mesozoic]

Hence if Pakistan plays India regularly, I am sure they are going to be as competitive as SENA teams against India.

Lmao that's not how it works , brother..

You need to have the players who're as good as the SENA teams' in order to compete against India. All the SENA sides have won ICC events in this decade and have played multiple finals. There is a very clear gap in quality between SENAI and the rest at the sides at the moment.

 

[RamLakhan]

I think you guys didn't get my point about Pakistan's rise in quality when they consistently play against India. Somebody like Shoaib Akther emerged out of nowhere, when everyone felt that the era of Wasim, Waqar, Imran was over... It is something similar to how Afghanistan's cricket improves because of their rivalry against Pakistan, players tend to develop confidence... Pakistan's record against SENA in the past was almost similar to that of India, but they turned up well against India at all times... Even the last bilateral series against India (in 2015), Pakistan has won it... It is my theory, whether it works that way or not we will never know!

 

[Mesozoic]

I think you guys didn't get my point about Pakistan's rise in quality when they consistently play against India. Somebody like Shoaib Akther emerged out of nowhere, when everyone felt that the era of Wasim, Waqar, Imran was over... It is something similar to how Afghanistan's cricket improves because of their rivalry against Pakistan, players tend to develop confidence... Pakistan's record against SENA in the past was almost similar to that of India, but they turned up well against India at all times... Even the last bilateral series against India (in 2015), Pakistan has won it... It is my theory, whether it works that way or not we will never know!

The series happened in 2012 when the Indian ODI team were in a transition phase. Ever since that series, the ODI record between the two sides read 9-2 in India's favour.

And no...just because you play regularly against a certain team, you won't improve in quality and skillset. On the flip side of your "developing confidence" argument, consistent humiliations against India would deflate the team even further as we have seen on many occasions before. It's a double edged sword..

 

[prash88]

H2H deficit reduced by 3 in a space of two weeks. Pakistan - 88 wins, India - 80 wins. How long ll Pakistan hold the 8 win lead they currently have?

 

[Mamoon]

No bilateral cricket with India is the best thing that could have happened to Pakistan cricket in the last 12 years. Losing home and away every year across formats would have probably killed Pakistan cricket and made the fans lose all interest, but PCB would have been richer for it though.

There will be bilateral engagement in the future though. This isn’t an eternal thing. You have to hope that when bilateral cricket is resumed, Pakistan cricket will be in better shape and more competitive than they have been in the last 10 years.

 

[Braveheart]

Over all, Head to Head Finals are the key stats to look at.
As of today, it stands at:
Pakistan 7
v
India 4

 

[Savak]

Pakistani fans and ex players can boast about the Head to Head stuff, but the reality is that India has significantly reduced the gap in the last 15 years and they will overtake it because their cricket quality has sky rocketed. The PCB on the other hand will still keep sleeping and not take any meaningful steps to address the root cause of the problems.

 

[Master Blaster]

Local umpires and bottle caps say hi...

 

[Nabeel23]

So what? If Pak and India played Tests from 1989-1999 then Pak would have had higher H2H. Similarly, if there was an ICC event every year or so in the 80s and 90s, our trophy tally would have been higher.

Yes India have been the better side since 2003 but all these things are just ifs and buts.

 

[stani_pak]

You have India to blame for this, I believe 2013 was the last bilateral series between the 2 nations

From 2011 until now India have been the better team, if they played Pakistan more often, they might have had a better H2H in Test in ODI

Pakistan was more than willing to play them, India refused when they wanted to pick and chose when they wanted to play Pakistan (ICC and ACC events only)

The fact that India plays Pakistan in these events only shows Palgham and Mumbai where inside jobs, at the end of the day its just a sport and game, a true nation would boycott all the matches with Pak, if they truly had done these attacks, this is propoganda and India want to cash in on India vs Pak match in international events, having the two teams not play often makes it even more special, and generates more money

Gotta hand it to BCCI and there government they are smart at fooling there own people