Pakistan’s pedestrian bowling attack

[Mamoon]

Yes the bowlers should shoot out this NZ batting line-up for sub-100 scores, and even then our batsmen would muck it up. As I said, complete madness. Misplaced anger. The only aspect of our cricket that wins us matches is constantly bashed after 2-3 average games. Australia concedes 308 to England, they are still a smashing bowling attack. Starc and Cummins pretty much lose Australia the match by getting man-handled by Roy in the early overs, even with scoreboard pressure (rings a bell?). Starc will still be the best bowler in the world for the likes of [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] and Cummins will still be a future superstar.

Oh yes we did so much better with passion and aggression man! We had one of the fastest pacers in the world, Wahab Riaz lose us match after match and humiliate himself on the world stage, but yaar passion aur aggression toh tha na. Performance ko goli maaro.

Get it through your head, until we fix our batting woes, we can never become a decent ODI team. We have the WORST batting line-up in the top 12, even Zimbabwe, Afghanistan and Ireland would not have such a one-paced line-up. The bowling can only do so much and it needs certain conditions to be successful. I will say it again, Pakistan is not good enough to transform the template of ODI cricket. Stop thinking that it can consistently defy the odds in a professional sport.

If any of our bowlers become half as good as Starc across formats and wins Pakistan a World Cup, he will be given plenty of leeway if they get smashed every now and then.

Amir gets criticism because he is garbage in Tests, and lacks wicket-taking ability in ODIs. He is impact-less most of the time, and he wouldn’t even have played in the Champions Trophy Final if our bowlers hadn’t showed up vs South Africa and England - he was the only wicket-less bowler in the former, and didn’t play in the latter.

It seems like Amir will only perform if he has to defend a big total against India, or play against India on a green pitch where all bowlers looks special.

There is a good reason why he has zero 5 wicket hauls in ODIs, and probably never will get one.

As I said, Hasan gives you wickets; Amir gives you excuses.

Our so-called number one bowling attack fully deserves this humiliation. It is an average attack riding on the coattails of the incredible form of one bowler.

We were told that as long as our batsmen can trot to 250, our bowlers will do the job. Well, they conceded 300+ in the first ODI and New Zealand were on course to scoring 300+ in the second ODI as well, so our fans have had a much needed reality check.

Unless the top teams have off-days, 300 is the par score against our so-called best bowling attack in the world, which is the same for any other team.

 

[Usman Chadda]

If any of our bowlers become half as good as Starc across formats and wins Pakistan a World Cup, he will be given plenty of leeway if they get smashed every now and then.

Amir gets criticism because he is garbage in Tests, and lacks wicket-taking ability in ODIs. He is impact-less most of the time, and he wouldn’t even have played in the Champions Trophy Final if our bowlers hadn’t showed up vs South Africa and England - he was the only wicket-less bowler in the former, and didn’t play in the latter.

It seems like Amir will only perform if he has to defend a big total against India, or play against India on a green pitch where all bowlers looks special.

There is a good reason why he has zero 5 wicket hauls in ODIs, and probably never will get one.

As I said, Hasan gives you wickets; Amir gives you excuses.

Our so-called number one bowling attack fully deserves this humiliation. It is an average attack riding on the coattails of the incredible form of one bowler.

We were told that as long as our batsmen can trot to 250, our bowlers will do the job. Well, they conceded 300+ in the first ODI and New Zealand were on course to scoring 300+ in the second ODI as well, so our fans have had a much needed reality check.

Unless the top teams have off-days, 300 is the par score against our so-called best bowling attack in the world, which is the same for any other team.

Spent a long time on these forums to know Pakistan fans are quite possibly the most immature bunch and they deserve every bit of embarrassment and humiliation that has been imposed on them since the past 14 years of our cricket. One day the bowling is the greatest. The next day its the worst. Its a bunch of kids analyzing a professional sport.

The infatuation with Amir is ridiculous. He has been disappointing, everyone agrees. He is a very good bowler but not really a consistent match-winner. Thats Hasan Ali, and one such bowler is enough for a good bowling attack. Shadab Khan is a promising leg-spinner with a lot of energy. Rumman Raees, while a bit low on pace this series for some reason, is a very good option with variations on wickets which are a bit slow. Faheem is a decent fourth seamer, who has bowled well on this tour so far.

Pakistan fans expect magic from the bowlers everytime they step out on the field. And the bowlers do deliver this magic aswell time and time again (or the top teams just forget how to play that day magically, according to your version). The fans are spoiled and throw a tantrum every time a professional athlete in our team has an off day or an off series. Bowling seldom wins you LOI matches. You think the other 11 teams are buffoons, basing their strategy on their batsmen and working on their power-hitting options? India has risen to the top of the world rankings on the basis of this template. Their batting has single-handedly made them a strong force in world cricket. England has focused very hard to make their batting line-up as dynamic as possible to match the modern standards of LOI cricket. Completely revamped their ODI line-up and dropped players who had sub-par strike-rates. Australia focus on developing quality LOI batsmen with innovative techniques equally. You think these teams are stupid that they are focusing so much of their effort into developing modern day LOI batters?

Most of Pakistan's recent victories have come when the bowlers have restricted the opposition to low totals and the batters can tuk tuk to that target. The third ODI should have been won aswell, 258 would have been chased by all of the top 5 batting line-ups very easily. Yet you fans bash the only aspect that wins you games. Batsmen win you LOIs, bowlers win you Tests. That's just the way it is and will forever be, no matter what your agenda.

 

[Mamoon]

Spent a long time on these forums to know Pakistan fans are quite possibly the most immature bunch and they deserve every bit of embarrassment and humiliation that has been imposed on them since the past 14 years of our cricket. One day the bowling is the greatest. The next day its the worst. Its a bunch of kids analyzing a professional sport.

The infatuation with Amir is ridiculous. He has been disappointing, everyone agrees. He is a very good bowler but not really a consistent match-winner. Thats Hasan Ali, and one such bowler is enough for a good bowling attack. Shadab Khan is a promising leg-spinner with a lot of energy. Rumman Raees, while a bit low on pace this series for some reason, is a very good option with variations on wickets which are a bit slow. Faheem is a decent fourth seamer, who has bowled well on this tour so far.

Pakistan fans expect magic from the bowlers everytime they step out on the field. And the bowlers do deliver this magic aswell time and time again (or the top teams just forget how to play that day magically, according to your version). The fans are spoiled and throw a tantrum every time a professional athlete in our team has an off day or an off series. Bowling seldom wins you LOI matches. You think the other 11 teams are buffoons, basing their strategy on their batsmen and working on their power-hitting options? India has risen to the top of the world rankings on the basis of this template. Their batting has single-handedly made them a strong force in world cricket. England has focused very hard to make their batting line-up as dynamic as possible to match the modern standards of LOI cricket. Completely revamped their ODI line-up and dropped players who had sub-par strike-rates. Australia focus on developing quality LOI batsmen with innovative techniques equally. You think these teams are stupid that they are focusing so much of their effort into developing modern day LOI batters?

Most of Pakistan's recent victories have come when the bowlers have restricted the opposition to low totals and the batters can tuk tuk to that target. The third ODI should have been won aswell, 258 would have been chased by all of the top 5 batting line-ups very easily. Yet you fans bash the only aspect that wins you games. Batsmen win you LOIs, bowlers win you Tests. That's just the way it is and will forever be, no matter what your agenda.

I totally agree that in this era, you cannot become a top ODI side without a powerhouse batting lineup. England is a good example. They have an average attack but a world class batting unit. Hence, they have been a force in ODIs post 2015 World Cup. Hence, we need to stop overrating our bowling.

Apart from the Champions Trophy, our bowling has been ordinary for a decade. For years, we have been relying on chuckers to bail us out and the pace bowlers haven't really made much of an impact.

Nonetheless, that does not mean that should not call out our bowlers for bowling poorly. They are getting a ride because of the Champions Trophy, but they have been poor in this series.

 

[Markhor]

I was highlighting that even with w’s in conditions and rules favouring bowlers we still managed to get hammered in odi’s consistently. In fact take out match winning contributions of saeed, inzi and Yousuf and misbah and you’ll see we’ve always been a rubbish batting side.

And you’re stat is interesting. It’s dated from 1 January 2017. Adjust from last 12 months
And we slip down to 6th

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=8;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

But the fact is below us in my stat is Australia. And nobody would say Australia are a mediocre odi side. The simple difference is that with Cummins Starc and Hazlewood you have a fantastic bowling nucleus.

It’s this absence of this I am lamenting.

The start of 2017 to now IS the last 12 months. By your own timeframe, we still have the third best ODI bowling attack in the Top 9 when you sort by bowling average and the best economy rate too.

If you go back to when Mickey Arthur took over as coach, we have the fourth best ODI bowling average in the Top 9, and the second best economy rate.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=8;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

I disagree with the argument that since our batting has always been rubbish let's not bother improving it and go all in on the bowling. Maybe if we discarded the sainted seniors Malik, Hafeez and Azhar we'd get someplace. We have young, dynamic batsmen like Sahibzada Farhan, Hussain Talat and Saud Shakeel so I wouldn't give up on the batting. This is a batsmen-friendly era and as such we need to change with the times.

 

[Abid Z]

The start of 2017 to now IS the last 12 months. By your own timeframe, we still have the third best ODI bowling attack in the Top 9 when you sort by bowling average and the best economy rate too.

If you go back to when Mickey Arthur took over as coach, we have the fourth best ODI bowling average in the Top 9, and the second best economy rate.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=8;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

I disagree with the argument that since our batting has always been rubbish let's not bother improving it and go all in on the bowling. Maybe if we discarded the sainted seniors Malik, Hafeez and Azhar we'd get someplace. We have young, dynamic batsmen like Sahibzada Farhan, Hussain Talat and Saud Shakeel so I wouldn't give up on the batting. This is a batsmen-friendly era and as such we need to change with the times.

I didn’t write let’s not bother about batting!! I wrote I’ve given up hope on our batting improving esp in bouncy swinging conditions. I honestly can’t say anything new about our batting that hasn’t been said
before. Leave alone the green countries, even dambulla and West Indies will occasionally trip up our batting.

I was just looking at the bowling.

All I can say in this thread is that the current bowling lot are extremely pedestrian. I gave you dates from 14 jan 2017 to 14 jan 2018. Simply because you presented dates from 1 jan 2017 which skewed the result.

But all theee stats are irrelevant only because this is clearly a selection own goal especially with so many changes in the bowling from 12 months ago. Lately When junaid was injured he should have been replaced with a pacer. When imad was injured he should have been replaced with a left arm spinning all rounder. When hafeez was banned he should have been replaced with an off spinning all rounder but I can understand the temptation to still play him as a batsman. I don’t agree with it but I can go with it.

What I can’t do is look at this very Padestrian attack with pride. notice that amir needs a rest, he’s lost his ability to take wickets. Hasan is carrying the bowling and ruman and faheem are bad choices they can only take lucky wickets at the back end of an innings when the batsmen are having a dash.

I don’t mean we should have spray gun wahab or inconsistent rahat either but this series should have been good for giving some intelligent medium pacer a chance. Right now we look very ordinary on the bowling front.

 

[Abid Z]

And once again this attack is showing us just how ordinary they are!

 

[mkyawar]

Just proving that CT was a fluke

 

[Savak]

Just proving that CT was a fluke

Conditions in the CT suited our bowling attack to be honest, dry, abrasive surfaces allowing reverse swing. Nothing of that sort was available here in NZ and the bowling attack got exposed big time.

 

[shane]

They bowled pretty well today. They were just unlucky enough to lose Shoaib Malik and to come across a possessed De Grandhomme.

 

[shariqnoor]

This bowling attack is toothless and has been for quite a while.

About time people come out of this Amir fantasy that he is some amazing bowler who is just having a bad time. He is rubbish. You play 50 matches, chances are you are going to perform in 2.

Rumman has no skill apart from bowling slower balls. He can be a handy T20 bowler where containment can bring you wickets but not in ODIs or Tests.

Fahim Ashraf is fast turning into an Anwar Ali if he cannot get us wickets.

Hasan Ali and Shadab are the only bowlers who have the ability to take wickets in clumps. However with Shadab, conditions matter a lot. If he gets a flat batting pitch, its more than likely he'll go over 60 runs. So with only one all-conditions bowler, you can win a match here or there, but you can't win bilaterals consistently and become a good team.

Our bowling attack was one of the world's best during Misbah's time because we had a match winner in Ajmal and we got great backup in Gul and Junaid in the early part of the Misbah's captaincy. Then we had Afridi and Hafeez who halted the scoring rate like nobody's business. But right now, things are looking very bleak.

 

[Madplayer]

They bowled pretty well today. They were just unlucky enough to lose Shoaib Malik and to come across a possessed De Grandhomme.

The also came across a possessed Pandya in CT final, a possessed Munro in this series , possessed guptill in the 3rd ODI and finally now a possessed grandma.

Dont we see a pattern here? Its Pakistan bolwing line up's bluff which is being called here.

Many of you would have noticed that when people attack this bowling line up, they lose the plot.

Its only when people are defending or circumspect that this bowling line up troubles them.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Just proving that CT was a fluke

That bowling attack had Imad and Junaid..

 

[Shafi]

Unfortunately Amir needs to be dropped!!!! He is worse among all our bowlers. Yamin should replace him. 8-0 on card

 

[Savak]

This bowling attack is toothless and has been for quite a while.

About time people come out of this Amir fantasy that he is some amazing bowler who is just having a bad time. He is rubbish. You play 50 matches, chances are you are going to perform in 2.

Rumman has no skill apart from bowling slower balls. He can be a handy T20 bowler where containment can bring you wickets but not in ODIs or Tests.

Fahim Ashraf is fast turning into an Anwar Ali if he cannot get us wickets.

Hasan Ali and Shadab are the only bowlers who have the ability to take wickets in clumps. However with Shadab, conditions matter a lot. If he gets a flat batting pitch, its more than likely he'll go over 60 runs. So with only one all-conditions bowler, you can win a match here or there, but you can't win bilaterals consistently and become a good team.

Our bowling attack was one of the world's best during Misbah's time because we had a match winner in Ajmal and we got great backup in Gul and Junaid in the early part of the Misbah's captaincy. Then we had Afridi and Hafeez who halted the scoring rate like nobody's business. But right now, things are looking very bleak.

To be honest our pacers have looked clueless on what lines and lengths to bowl in NZ, they have not been able to do anything with the ball either. Yes the bowling attack has looked toothless but question marks need to be asked about the bowling coach as well, the bowling attack has now played 5 games in the series and by now they should have understood where and how to bowl on NZ pitches.

 

[Abid Z]

This bowling attack is toothless and has been for quite a while.

About time people come out of this Amir fantasy that he is some amazing bowler who is just having a bad time. He is rubbish. You play 50 matches, chances are you are going to perform in 2.

Rumman has no skill apart from bowling slower balls. He can be a handy T20 bowler where containment can bring you wickets but not in ODIs or Tests.

Fahim Ashraf is fast turning into an Anwar Ali if he cannot get us wickets.

Hasan Ali and Shadab are the only bowlers who have the ability to take wickets in clumps. However with Shadab, conditions matter a lot. If he gets a flat batting pitch, its more than likely he'll go over 60 runs. So with only one all-conditions bowler, you can win a match here or there, but you can't win bilaterals consistently and become a good team.

Our bowling attack was one of the world's best during Misbah's time because we had a match winner in Ajmal and we got great backup in Gul and Junaid in the early part of the Misbah's captaincy. Then we had Afridi and Hafeez who halted the scoring rate like nobody's business. But right now, things are looking very bleak.

Spot on. The problem with ruman is he doesn’t have very good control over his mix up deliveries. He’s tried wide of off stump Yorkers that just into half volleys.

Amir is just clueless at the moment