What's new

Pakistan and India agree to strictly observe a ceasefire at Kashmir border

MenInG

PakPassion Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Runs
217,947
Pakistan and India’s militaries have agreed to strictly observe a ceasefire at the de facto border between the two countries in the disputed region of Kashmir, and other agreements, according to a Pakistani military statement – a rare thaw in relations between the South Asian neighbours.

The director-general’s of military operations (DGMO) of the Indian and Pakistani military held discussions over a hotline between their offices on Thursday morning, a Pakistani military statement said.

“Both sides agreed for strict observance of all agreements, understandings and cease firing along the [Line of Control] and all other sectors, with effect from midnight [on Friday],” said the statement.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...r-firing-in-kashmir?__twitter_impression=true
 
Last edited:
Give them twenty four hours before one side claims the other side broke the ceasefire , it was not us, we are just giving a befitting response.
 
Give them twenty four hours before one side claims the other side broke the ceasefire , it was not us, we are just giving a befitting response.

Going by history, Pakistan lacks any trust to claim otherwise.
 
Oh yes! Innoncent Indians :) 😃

Pakistan has initiated war against India time after time after independence. Even after Lahore yatra, which could have been dawn of a new era, what happened? Not even 6 months and Kargil happened.

When you destroy trust this way, no wonder the concerned party loses any credibility.
 
Pakistan has initiated war against India time after time after independence. Even after Lahore yatra, which could have been dawn of a new era, what happened? Not even 6 months and Kargil happened.

When you destroy trust this way, no wonder the concerned party loses any credibility.

What happen when you did a "surgical strike"? You infringed international borders to do the supposedly "surgical strike".
 
What happen when you did a "surgical strike"? You infringed international borders to do the supposedly "surgical strike".

Asking questions instead of answering. This is not how I put forward argument.

I won't waste your time nor mine. You can continue with others.
 
If it was so easy to announce a ceasefire by a mere phone call by the DGMO’s ,why didn’t they do it earlier? Many lives would have saved and life would be much better for the common people living in the border.
 
Pakistan has initiated war against India time after time after independence. Even after Lahore yatra, which could have been dawn of a new era, what happened? Not even 6 months and Kargil happened.

When you destroy trust this way, no wonder the concerned party loses any credibility.

Both countries are complicit in breaking agreements and ceasefires. Or basically doing things to harm the other country.

One difference I find is that India has been very successful at playing the victim whereas Pakistan doesn't play victim.

Another difference I find is that there is no greater unifier in Indian than Pakistan. It is like Russia for Americans during the cold war. Having a boogeyman helps unite the country by giving them a common enemy.

Overall, I find Pakistanis don't necessarily view India as a mortal enemy. The only contention Pakistan has is regarding rights over Kashmir and the treatment of their people.
 
Both countries are complicit in breaking agreements and ceasefires. Or basically doing things to harm the other country.

One difference I find is that India has been very successful at playing the victim whereas Pakistan doesn't play victim.

Another difference I find is that there is no greater unifier in Indian than Pakistan. It is like Russia for Americans during the cold war. Having a boogeyman helps unite the country by giving them a common enemy.

Overall, I find Pakistanis don't necessarily view India as a mortal enemy. The only contention Pakistan has is regarding rights over Kashmir and the treatment of their people.

You are partially correct. Post 2008 Pakistan has earned a rather bad image in the Indian narrative. I know some of it is perspective, some of it is pure propaganda, but it is true that Pakistan did not help herself either and has fair share in making it difficult for everybody. Musharaf was particularly master tactician in playing a duplicitous role. The problem is they have a government in India now who are ready to play the game in their mode and that has made things very toxic. A guy like Vajpayee would be ready to be aggressive if needed but not break the protocols beyond a limit even if their counterpart entity in Pakistan did the same and provoked them. Modi and Shah on the other hand think and act similar to the Pakistani establishment in terms of the bilateral relationship between the two nations. No wonder you see all the drama 365 days a year.
 
Going by history, Pakistan lacks any trust to claim otherwise.

Wth is this
Too many anti-pak videos but didn't bother looking for what India did (basically echo chamber)
Like this is a tone deaf comment you are either ignorant about the whole situation (by just looking at "one" side of the story and not analyzing others presepective) or extremely biased to make a comment like that
 
Sad to see that even in a thread about peace the usual bigots are out spreading their bile.

Indian Soldiers are as equally dear to their mothers as Pakistani soldiers are to theirs. Anything that contributes to the minimisng of bloodshed and loss of life is a step in the right direction.
 
Wth is this
Too many anti-pak videos but didn't bother looking for what India did (basically echo chamber)
Like this is a tone deaf comment you are either ignorant about the whole situation (by just looking at "one" side of the story and not analyzing others presepective) or extremely biased to make a comment like that

after 1947 through out the last century, tell me how India has taken a role to disrupt the peace?
 
Sad to see that even in a thread about peace the usual bigots are out spreading their bile.

Indian Soldiers are as equally dear to their mothers as Pakistani soldiers are to theirs. Anything that contributes to the minimisng of bloodshed and loss of life is a step in the right direction.

If the soldiers cared about their mothers enough, they wouldn't be signing up for this job which glories death, and gives you a flag to wrap your dead body after you are killed brutally.
 
New Delhi: India’s diplomatic commitments along the Line of Control with Pakistan and the Line of Actual Control with China are not subject to any kind of comprise on the country’s national security and territorial sovereignty, the Ministry of External Affairs expressed on Thursday.

Speaking with reference to the new ceasefire agreement with Pakistan, MEA Spokesperson Anurag Srivastava said that India desires “normal” relationship with Pakistan but New Delhi’s stand on several key issues will continue to remain unchanged.

“India desires normal neighbourly relations with Pakistan. However, on key issues, our position remains unchanged,” the MEA spokesperson said on the India-Pakistan DGMO-level talks on ceasefire.

India and Pakistan have agreed to strictly observe all agreements pertaining to ceasefire along the LoC effective from Wednesday midnight. The decision was taken during a meeting between the Director Generals of Military Operations (DGMOs) of both countries on the intervening night of February 24/25.

Meanwhile, the disengagement process near eastern Ladakh has not come at the expense of India’s territory, the MEA said, adding that redeployment of forces from both sides should not be misinterpreted at any cost.

“India hasn’t conceded any territory and prevented unilateral change in the status quo. The mutual redeployment should not be misinterpreted and there is absolutely no change with respect to our position on the Line of Actual Control,” Srivastava said.
 
If the soldiers cared about their mothers enough, they wouldn't be signing up for this job which glories death, and gives you a flag to wrap your dead body after you are killed brutally.

The ceasefire will prevent that from occurring. Their mothers will be happy that their sons are serving the nation and they can be heroes without risk.
 
Wth is this
Too many anti-pak videos but didn't bother looking for what India did (basically echo chamber)
Like this is a tone deaf comment you are either ignorant about the whole situation (by just looking at "one" side of the story and not analyzing others presepective) or extremely biased to make a comment like that

1949 ceasefire agreement, violated in 1965 by OP Gibraltar.

1972 Shimla Agreement, violated by supporting, financing and training a armed secessionist terrorist movement in Kashmir from late 80s.

1999 Lahore Declaration: Violated by the Kargil incursions.

Pray tell me, who violated these agreements?
 
The ceasefire will prevent that from occurring. Their mothers will be happy that their sons are serving the nation and they can be heroes without risk.

Maybe when the entire world becomes woke, then soldiers will not have risk of being killed, but at present, the soldiers have shown they care for other things more than their mothers. Otherwise they wouldn't sign up for this job.
 
Maybe when the entire world becomes woke, then soldiers will not have risk of being killed, but at present, the soldiers have shown they care for other things more than their mothers. Otherwise they wouldn't sign up for this job.

Lets hope the Indians stick to it. They normally get trigger happy if they havent shelled or shot a civilian after a few days unless its their religous holidays.
 
after 1947 through out the last century, tell me how India has taken a role to disrupt the peace?

Supporting Bangladesh nationalists in Pakistan from mid 1960s
Taking hills in Pakistani sides in 1980s which later become a catalyst for 1990s war
2000s attacks on Pres Pakistan according to ISI done by indian or at the very least organized by indian agencies

and plenty more, this game is very easy to play but indian PR is good that's why indians are led to believe only they can play that game
 
Supporting Bangladesh nationalists in Pakistan from mid 1960s
Taking hills in Pakistani sides in 1980s which later become a catalyst for 1990s war
2000s attacks on Pres Pakistan according to ISI done by indian or at the very least organized by indian agencies

and plenty more, this game is very easy to play but indian PR is good that's why indians are led to believe only they can play that game
Btw taliban is a Confederacy of terror groups and they shore up thier recruitiment by claiming attacks so tham admitting random attacks is directly related to thier goals

No credible authority just go by what Taliban, ISIS claim cause they have an active intrest involved in claiming attacks that they have nothing to do with
 
Interesting development. I really didn't think BJP would be open to ceasefire given their narrative to the blood hungry populace.

Surprised me. But hopefully good for the future and less "befitting responses" type headlines where only poor innocent folk are dying as collateral.
 
after 1947 through out the last century, tell me how India has taken a role to disrupt the peace?

From the Pakistani perspective India taking any portion of Jammu and Kashmir disrupted the peace. They feel cheated during partition. I'm not saying its right, but that's how people in Pakistan feel on this issue.

Indians can point to the Instrument of Ascension but Pakistanis would point to Junagadh.


Anyway with that said a lot of Pakistanis do blame Musharraf for Kargil, and saw that as a good faith attempt by Nawaz Sharif and Vajapayee to bring peace. Had Kargil not happened i think a creative solution could have been found to the dispute that did not involve changing of borders. Like in Europe their is South Tyrol, Aaland island, etc.
 
From the Pakistani perspective India taking any portion of Jammu and Kashmir disrupted the peace. They feel cheated during partition. I'm not saying its right, but that's how people in Pakistan feel on this issue.

Indians can point to the Instrument of Ascension but Pakistanis would point to Junagadh.

Junagarh happened before kashmir. So indians can point to pakistan accepting the accession of junagarh as betrayal.
 
Junagarh happened before kashmir. So indians can point to pakistan accepting the accession of junagarh as betrayal.

Sure, and then Pakistanis would say India refused to accept that, invaded the state and held a referendum.

As it stands India has 100% of Junagadh. Pakistan only has 1/3 of Jammu Kashmir. You can make a case though, that having a 1/3 of Jammu Kashmir is better than 100% of Junagadh.
 
Sure, and then Pakistanis would say India refused to accept that, invaded the state and held a referendum.

As it stands India has 100% of Junagadh. Pakistan only has 1/3 of Jammu Kashmir. You can make a case though, that having a 1/3 of Jammu Kashmir is better than 100% of Junagadh.

And then indians will say that pakistan accepting junagarh flew in the face of two nation theory, as it had no business taking a hindu majority area. While india, being a secular country, can take both junagarh and kashmir. Because when you are secular, you can have your cake and eat it too.
 
Not sure why Pakistan is showing mercy?

We should’ve teamed up with China and had them intensify the Chinese attack on the Ladakh border, and supported the farmer protest by turning it into a part of Khalistan movement, and continued attacking them on Kashmir border.

I hope this is the ISI’s actual plan and with Chinese support, they will relaunch it with vengeance.

And why do I opine this?

Modi and his fascist regime of religious fanatics do not want peace inside India or outside its borders. It has been evident for quite a while now - so let’s give it to them. Nice and hard!
 
Not sure why Pakistan is showing mercy?

We should’ve teamed up with China and had them intensify the Chinese attack on the Ladakh border, and supported the farmer protest by turning it into a part of Khalistan movement, and continued attacking them on Kashmir border.

I hope this is the ISI’s actual plan and with Chinese support, they will relaunch it with vengeance.

And why do I opine this?

Modi and his fascist regime of religious fanatics do not want peace inside India or outside its borders. It has been evident for quite a while now - so let’s give it to them. Nice and hard!

Yeah China would never do that...
(Wars due to Kashmir led to us losing decades of growth that we could have achieved leading to a more prosperous Pakistan but the obsession got the better of us)

The sooner we forget Kashmir the better
 
Yeah China would never do that...
(Wars due to Kashmir led to us losing decades of growth that we could have achieved leading to a more prosperous Pakistan but the obsession got the better of us)

The sooner we forget Kashmir the better

Prosperity was slowed down not because of Kashmir and war with India. C’mon, are you seriously this naive?

It’s the decades worth of looting the national wealth by the corrupt leadership. Billions upon Billions of dollars looted. That’s what slowed down the prosperity.

But that’s not even the point.
Modi and his fascists friends will continue to work 24/7 to destabilize Pakistan even if Kashmir is off the table.
Their entire politics is based on deeply ingrained hate against Muslims and fear mongering of “Hindu Khatray mein hai”.
You didn’t pick this up yet?

A snake can’t be your friend. By its very nature, it will bite you no matter how nice you become with it. This current fascist regime in India is exactly that, IMO.

And my earlier post had nothing to do with “freedom of Kashmir” to begin with. Give it another read.

In this day n age, and with this kind of terrorist regime of religious fanatics in power in India, the peace talks and raising white flags don’t work to ward off the snakes.

The best way to peace is deterrence and with an iron fist.

As the old saying goes:
“If you want peace then always be prepared for war.”

You take a snooze and this snake will bite you.

So unless there is a regime change in India, we must always stay on the high alert.
Our ISI must continue to work towards the ouster of this fascist regime in India to bring greater peace in the entire region.IKO
 
n its first statement on occupied Kashmir, the Biden administration has urged India and Pakistan to hold direct talks on the issue, and welcomed an agreement between the two neighbours to de-escalate tensions along the Line of Control (LoC).

Both India and Pakistan announced on Thursday that their senior military commanders have agreed to strictly observe all agreements, understandings and ceasefire along the LoC and other sectors, with effect from midnight on Wednesday.

In Washington, US State Department spokesman Ned Price mentioned this agreement in his opening statement at the Thursday afternoon news briefing.

“We welcome the joint statement between India and Pakistan that the two countries have agreed to maintain strict observance of a ceasefire along the LoC starting immediately," he said.


“We encourage continued efforts to improve communication between the two sides and to reduce tensions and violence along the LoC,” he added.

His statement prompted journalists to ask: “To what extent, if any, did the United States play a role in helping broker this new ceasefire agreement?”

Media representatives also recalled that when US President Joe Biden was the vice president in the Obama administration, he had a very warm relationship with Pakistan and saw Islamabad as a vital partner in the war in Afghanistan.

The journalists wanted to know how Biden’s previous closeness to Pakistan would impact his policy towards the country now when he was the president.

They also wanted to know how this would interplay with his relationship with India.

“When it comes to the US role, we continue to support direct dialogue between India and Pakistan on Kashmir and other issues of concern,” said the State Department spokesman while responding to these queries.

“And […] we certainly welcome the arrangement that was announced” in the region, he added.

Price said that he and other officials of the Biden administration have been urging the two neighboring countries to reduce their tensions since Jan 20, when Biden took oath as the new US president.

“You’ve heard me say from this podium and others from this administration say that we had called on the parties to reduce tensions along the LoC by returning to that 2003 ceasefire agreement,” he said.

“We have been very clear that we condemn the terrorists who seek to infiltrate across the LoC.”

Asked how this effort to “stay neutral” between India and Pakistan would affect the Biden administration’s policies towards Islamabad, Price said: “Pakistan is an important partner with whom we share many interests. We, as I said, have been clear in terms of this issue.”

The US official also referred to Pakistan’s role in the Afghan peace talks, as Washington expects Islamabad to stay engaged with the Taliban for restoring peace to the war-ravaged country.

Read: Stable Afghanistan in interest of Pakistan, says FM Qureshi

“So clearly, we will be paying close attention, and we urge the Pakistanis to play a constructive role in all of these areas of mutual interest, including in Afghanistan, including with Kashmir, including with our other shared interests,” he said.

Pakistan played a key role in arranging a peace deal between the Taliban and the Trump administration, signed in Doha in February last year.

The Biden administration has said that it respects the deal but needs more time to study its features.

This has been interpreted as indicating that Biden may not fulfill the Trump administration’s pledge to withdraw all US troops from Afghanistan by May 1.

This could further complicate Pakistan’s role as a mediator because the Taliban want all foreign troops to leave as agreed. Any delay in the withdrawal could further harden their attitude towards the Kabul government.

Last week, the United Nations and the United States both condemned the Taliban for increasing their attacks on Afghan government targets, making it clear that this level of violence was unacceptable to the international community.

After a virtual meeting, the US-led Nato alliance also sent a similar message to Taliban leaders who continue to demand a complete withdrawal by May 1.

Underling Pakistan’s role in this complex process, the State Department spokesman said: “Obviously, Pakistan has an important role to play when it comes to Afghanistan and what takes place across its other border.”

UN Charter outlaws use of force, Pakistan reminds UNSC
Meanwhile, a statement Pakistan made at an informal UN forum indicated that Islamabad had concerns about a major Indian aggression along the LoC before their military commanders reached an understanding to reduce tensions.

The statement caused political observers in Washington to speculate that the US and other major players were aware of and might have played a role in reducing tensions between South Asia’s two nuclear-armed neighbors.

Pakistan used the Arria Formula, an informal arrangement, to convey the alarming message hours before senior military commanders from both countries agreed to strictly observe all agreements and understandings.

The Arria formula, named after a former Venezuelan ambassador to the UN, was used in March 1992 to draw the world’s attention to the situation in Bosnia.

Pakistan’s UN Ambassador Munir Akram began his briefing with a reminder to the UNSC members that the purpose of the UN Charter was to outlaw the resort to war.

“Unfortunately, today the resort to unauthorised and unilateral use of force is most visible in [...] foreign occupation and intervention; in denial of the right of self-determination; in the coercion of smaller and weaker States,” Ambassador Akram said.

“Pakistan faces cross border attacks by terrorist groups from the territory of the neighboring state supported by a third state.”

“Pakistan,” the envoy said, “has respected the territorial sovereignty of its neighboring states but we have the right to self-defence against the state which is sponsoring these terrorist attacks against Pakistan.”

Ambassador Akram also underlined a disturbing trend of exploiting the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States to justify aggression against others.

“It is regrettable that after 9/11 the fight against international terrorism has been utilised to justify the unilateral use of force and foreign intervention,” he said.

“The use of force in self-defence is limited to repelling an armed attack. It does not cover ‘future’ or ‘anticipated’ attacks. The concept of ‘preventive’ or ‘anticipatory’ use of force is contrary to the UN Charter and illegal," he said.

How was the agreement reached?
The outcome of the conversation between the directors general military operations of the two countries, held after a long time, was significant, but people were curious about knowing how the two sides reached this point.

With no convincing explanation coming either from Islamabad or Delhi, diplomatic observers believed that it was a result of some backchannel talks that may have been at work. But who were involved in it?

Sources say it had been taking place between the intelligence agencies of the two countries with the blessings of the respective military leaderships. Almost everyone agrees that not many people were in the loop on both sides.

In India it was rumoured that Indian National Security Adviser Ajit Doval was involved in the backchannel dialogue from his side. Some Indian media organisations speculated that Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on National Security Moeed Yusuf was the person on the Pakistani side.

Yusuf, however, through a tweet denied that he was part of any backchannel talks. He tweeted: “No such talks have taken place between me and Doval.”

In another tweet, he said the agreement resulted through DGMOs dialogue was “done privately and professionally through the direct channel.”

In an audio clip that earlier in the day made rounds on social media, Yusuf could be heard saying: “These things happen behind the scenes. A lot of effort goes into it. Do you think this happened without effort and without pressure.”

Yusuf had in an interview with Karan Thapar in October 2020, which was the first by a Pakistani official with any Indian media since annexation of occupied Kashmir by India in August 2019, said India had sent message expressing desire for talks.

It should also be recalled that Army Chief Gen Qamar Bajwa had in two statements earlier this month made gesture for resolving tensions. Speaking at the PAF Academy, he said: “It is time to extend hand of peace in all directions.”

Another significance of the agreement is that the Pakistan government engaged with India despite setting the conditions that it would not do so until and unless India cancelled the annexation of occupied Kashmir and ended the human rights violations there.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1609507/u...mir-welcomes-joint-statement-on-loc-ceasefire
 
Very interesting. The penny has finally dropped in Delhi and the US is now actively seeking a way to esnure the eastern border goes quiet.
 
If it was so easy to announce a ceasefire by a mere phone call by the DGMO’s ,why didn’t they do it earlier? Many lives would have saved and life would be much better for the common people living in the border.
India somehow managed to save lives of common men(hindus/sikhs) by providing them adequate protection.
 
Prosperity was slowed down not because of Kashmir and war with India. C’mon, are you seriously this naive?

It’s the decades worth of looting the national wealth by the corrupt leadership. Billions upon Billions of dollars looted. That’s what slowed down the prosperity.

But that’s not even the point.
Modi and his fascists friends will continue to work 24/7 to destabilize Pakistan even if Kashmir is off the table.
Their entire politics is based on deeply ingrained hate against Muslims and fear mongering of “Hindu Khatray mein hai”.
You didn’t pick this up yet?

A snake can’t be your friend. By its very nature, it will bite you no matter how nice you become with it. This current fascist regime in India is exactly that, IMO.

And my earlier post had nothing to do with “freedom of Kashmir” to begin with. Give it another read.

In this day n age, and with this kind of terrorist regime of religious fanatics in power in India, the peace talks and raising white flags don’t work to ward off the snakes.

The best way to peace is deterrence and with an iron fist.

As the old saying goes:
“If you want peace then always be prepared for war.”

You take a snooze and this snake will bite you.

So unless there is a regime change in India, we must always stay on the high alert.
Our ISI must continue to work towards the ouster of this fascist regime in India to bring greater peace in the entire region.IKO

^
Pakistan is lucky and unlucky at the same time

US wanted to invest heavily into Pakistan's economy and propel it into the upper echelon of US allies (similar to Japan, SK, Taiwan not as close as European allies but still close)

Cause the belief was that to counter USSR you needed an ally in the region with a robust economy so the military ends of things are maintained (something they were also looking at Iran to do and until shahs overthrow they benefitted but Pakistan with its high population was always going to be the center/ main ally in the region)

You can judge this closeness and interest of US in Pakistan by this important fact
Pakistan had one of the latest US jets of its time
so in modern times look at a country with F-35 and just look at thier economy and prestige and you'll know exactly what I am talking about...

This investment and focus was there till the 1965 war
after the war US started putting a break in thier relationship cause US didn't want an ally who isn't thier lapdogs and Pakistan wasn't thier lapdogs
They refused to listen to US and started the war without thier "permission" after that US knew Pakistan wasn't to be trusted and slowly but surely the US influence waned in Pakistan affairs

The Kashmir affair and wars associated with it propped Pakistan back into poverty and poor economy

Now a similar oppurtinity awaits Pakistan another future superpower knocking on our doors looking to build economy/military (but they associate some costs with it like being a lapdog of China and agreeing with everything they say and refusing to do anything they even hint at refusing)

But I am afraid that history might repeat itself cause we haven't fixed our issues in Kashmir, our political system is still not where it should be to keep the country stable, ethnic turmoil, red tape

So we are looking at another opening to propel the country into the future but we are like PCT just working on talent (IE in Pakistan's case its geography and willingness of superpowers to make it a close ally)

but increasingly in modern day talent alone won't cut it it requires some introspection, it requires some work, biggest thing modern booming economy requires

a peaceful, stable country and that can only come with a stable political system and I am afraid there still a lot to be desired on that front...

This is how we suffered due to those wars...
No country wants full blown wars so nor China or the US before it

So no major/superpower country Would agree to come out in support of Pakistan (like turkey with azerbaijan) let alone actually fight with tham, that's the naive assumption

Pakistan is a small country fighting a large country being prepared by the west to counter China

We'd be lucky if we can hold our own forget taking Kashmir

We can continue to buy chinese weapons (cheap) to keep india from getting wrong ideas
But even than I don't know how long we can continue competing (millitary ally) with india

This is just going towards the USSR route where we'll continue compete with another country without the economic backing which can lead to terrible consequences

We have no option in the long run except for compromise...

It's easy to chant Kashmir,. Kashmir all day long on the internet/living rooms but in reality much more difficult to carry out
 
Very interesting. The penny has finally dropped in Delhi and the US is now actively seeking a way to esnure the eastern border goes quiet.

It was Pakistan formal and stated position for no dialog unless revocation of 5th August 2019 actions by India. Still, you guys are dragged to DGMO level discussion and arm twisted for this agreement. Now, who has surrendered their position and where has penny dropped finally? Watch your ex Ambassador to India, Abdul Basit's vlog for better understanding.
 
The old philosophy of having borders and divisions doesn't work anymore and the people in India and Pakistan want to live in peace, Nobel laureate Malala Yousafzai said on Sunday, stressing that it is her dream to see the two countries become "good friends".

She also said that minorities need protection in every country, be it Pakistan or India, adding that the issue is not related to religion but to the "exploitation of power" and must be taken seriously.

Yousafzai, a Pakistani activist for girls education who miraculously survived a bullet to the head from the militant Taliban in October 2012, said the news of internet shutdown and arrests of activists "protesting peacefully" in India is "worrying" and expressed the hope that the government will make sure that people are heard.

"It is my dream to see India and Pakistan become true good friends and that we can visit each other's countries. You can continue to watch Pakistani dramas, we can continue to watch Bollywood movies and enjoy cricket matches," the youngest Nobel Peace Prize winner said.

She was speaking on her book "I Am Malala: The Story of the Girl Who Stood Up for Education and was Shot by the Taliban" on the concluding day of the Jaipur Literature Festival (JLF) which is being held in the virtual mode.

"You are Indian and I am Pakistani and we are completely fine, then why is this hatred created between us? This old philosophy of borders, divisions and divide and conquer... they just don't work anymore, as humans we all want to live in peace," she said.

The actual enemy of India and Pakistan is "poverty, discrimination and inequality" and both countries should unite and fight them, not each other, she added.

Apart from "India-Pakistan friendship", Yousufzai said she also dreams of the day when every girl would get to go to school and have access to quality education.

The 23-year-old activist also raised her voice for minorities across the world and said they are at "risk" and need to be protected globally by governments and human rights organisations.

"Minorities are at risk. Minorities' rights are not given to them. Be it Hindus and Christians in Pakistan, Muslims, Dalits and other minorities in India ... Palestinians, Rohingya refugees. It is not religion, it is the exploitation of power, it is just elites vs the poor and minorities.

"Minorities need protection globally from every country. They need a voice, need protection, and it is a reminder to governments, to human rights organisations to take this very seriously," she noted.

During the discussion, she also applauded Indian girls and young women fighting for human rights, "speaking out" for farmers in India, climate change and protection of the minority rights, and called their work "empowering and inspiring".

However, the news of the internet shutdown and arrests of activists protesting peacefully in India is "worrying", she claimed.

".. You may not like their political opinion but it does not mean that you put them in jails and arrest them. It is a democratic right of every individual -- including women and girls -- to highlight their political opinions... So I hope that the government makes sure that people can protest peacefully and ask for their rights, and that they are heard," she added.

The 14th edition of JLF featured over 300 speakers and performers representing around 25 Indian and 18 international languages and over 23 nationalities.

Some of the big names who made it to the festival this year included American linguist Noam Chomsky, 2020 Booker Prize winner Douglas Stuart, Nobel Laureates Joseph Stiglitz, Microsoft Corporation co-founder Bill Gates, and actor-author Priyanka Chopra.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/worl...good-friends-says-malala-101614509804445.html
 
It was Pakistan formal and stated position for no dialog unless revocation of 5th August 2019 actions by India. Still, you guys are dragged to DGMO level discussion and arm twisted for this agreement. Now, who has surrendered their position and where has penny dropped finally? Watch your ex Ambassador to India, Abdul Basit's vlog for better understanding.

big difference between high level dialogue and low level tactical ceasefire at the operation level. our assertion still stands as can be seen from Ik's statement. Its quite clear to most observers that China's moves have turned up the pressure and now a permanent threat remains on both of India's borders rather than on just one.

Our stated position on 5th aug hasnt changed an iota.
 
WASHINGTON: The United States has assured the international community that it’s following the developments in Jammu and Kashmir very closely and continues to support direct talks between India and Pakistan on the issue.

The Kashmir issue has been raised regularly in the daily news briefings of the US State Department since the Biden administration came to power on Jan 20. Journalists, including those in the American media, seem eager to know how the new administration intends to deal with the age-old dispute between South Asia’s two nuclear powers, India and Pakistan.

At the Thursday afternoon news briefing, a journalist reminded State Department spokesman Ned Price that India and Pakistan renewed their pledge to maintain peace along the Line of Control (LoC) in Kashmir late last month. Since then, both have avoided violations of a ceasefire agreement they signed in 2003 but peace remains tenuous.

“What the US Secretary of State Antony Blinken is going to do to ensure that the ceasefire maintains?” the journalist asked.

“It is true that we have continued to follow very closely developments in Jammu and Kashmir. Our policy towards the region has not changed,” Mr Price replied.

“We call on all parties to reduce tensions along the Line of Control by returning to the 2003 ceasefire commitments. We condemn terrorists who seek to infiltrate across the Line of Control.”

Explaining how Washington would ensure both sides respect the ceasefire agreement, Mr Price said: “We continue to support direct dialogue between India and Pakistan on Kashmir and other areas of concern.”

The journalist then pointed out that the emphasis on direct talks between India and Pakistan has had a negative impact on Kashmiri leaders who feel voiceless in the process. “Is the United States going to do anything to actually engage, not just Indian and Pakistani officials, but Kashmiri leaders as well?” the journalist asked.

“I don’t have anything for you on that. If there’s anything we can add, we will,” the US official replied.

At a similar briefing on Wednes*day, Mr Price used the term “union territory” while referring to India-occupied Jammu and Kashmir, but it emphasised at the same time that Washington’s Kashmir policy remained unchanged.

The United States has consistently recognised Jammu and Kashmir as an area disputed between India and Pakistan, urging both to resolve this issue through bilateral talks. But last month, while welcoming the resumption of high-speed internet in the occupied valley, a State Department tweet referred to the disputed territory as “India’s Jammu & Kashmir”.

Islamabad responded promptly to the omission, reminding Washington that the tweet was “inconsistent” with the disputed status of the region.

Also, on Thursday, a report by a US government-funded think-tank, Freedom House, regretted India’s fall from the ranks of free nations after the country’s status was downgraded to “partly free”.

“Under (Prime Minister Narendra) Modi, India appears to have abandoned its potential to serve as a global democratic leader, elevating narrow Hindu nationalist interests at the expense of its founding values of inclusion and equal rights for all,” warned the Freedom in the World 2021 report.

Reviewing the global situation in 2021, the report regretted “the fall of India from the upper ranks of free nations” which, it warned, “could have a particularly damaging impact on global democratic standards”.

Published in Dawn, March 6th, 2021

https://www.dawn.com/news/1610934/following-kashmir-situation-very-closely-us
 
In this thread: both sides saying their side is morally superior. Nothing to see here, folks.
 
A brigade command level flagstaff meeting was held between the military officers of Pakistan and India at the Rawalakot - Poonch border crossing point, said a statement issued by the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) on Friday.

According to the military's media wing, the meeting was held to review the implementation of the points of the ceasefire agreement that was reached between the director-generals of military operations (DGMOs) of the two countries earlier.

Earlier in February, the nuclear-armed neighbours agreed to observe the ceasefire along the Line of Control (LoC) and all other sectors.

The announcement was made simultaneously by both Islamabad and New Delhi after a telephonic conversation between senior military officials of the two countries.

“The director generals of military operations of India and Pakistan held discussions over the established mechanism of hotline contact,” said a joint statement issued by the Indian and Pakistani armies.

"The two sides reviewed the situation along the LoC and all other sectors in a free, frank and cordial atmosphere," read the official handout.

The statement added that in the interest of achieving mutually beneficial and sustainable peace, the two DGMOs agreed to address each other’s core issues and concerns that have the propensity to disturb the peace and lead to violence.

"Both the sides agreed to strictly observe all agreements, understandings and cease firing along the LoC and all other sectors, with effect from midnight 24/25 February 21," the statement said.

It further noted that both sides reiterated that existing mechanisms of hotline contact and border flag meetings will be utilised to resolve any unforeseen situation or misunderstanding.

The thaw is seen as a major development after years of tensions between the two nuclear-armed neighbours. It also came just days before the second anniversary of the Balakot incident and subsequent retaliation by Pakistan that brought the two countries on the brink of war.

The apparent thaw in ties is being attributed to quiet diplomacy between the two countries.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2291639/pakistan-india-brigade-commanders-hold-meeting-at-loc
 
ISLAMABAD:Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Sunday held a telephonic conversation with his Saudi counterpart Prince Faisal bin Farhan Al-Saud in what appears to be part of a flurry of diplomatic efforts ahead of the gathering of regional countries on Afghan peace in Tajikistan where top Indian and Pakistani diplomats may meet.

Qureshi also spoke to the UAE Foreign Minister a day earlier, reinforcing the perception that both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) might be playing a role in seeking a rapprochement between Pakistan and India.

The officials, however, are tight-lipped and would not say if Foreign Minister Qureshi and his Indian counterpart S Jaishankar would meet on the sidelines of the ministerial conference of Heart of Asia-Istanbul Process on Afghanistan taking place in Dushanbe on March 30.

The Foreign Office confirmed that the foreign minister would lead the Pakistani delegation while Indian External Affairs minister would represent his country.

This would be the first time Pakistan and Indian foreign Ministers would come face to face since the two sides recently agreed to restore 2003 ceasefire as well as decided to lower the rhetoric against each other.

"A possibility of a meeting at the sidelines cannot be ruled out," said a diplomatic source.

Although, there is no official word from any side, certain countries seem to have been active from behind the scenes to ease tensions between the two nuclear-tipped neighbours.

Earlier, the deputy Saudi Foreign Minister in an interview had said Riyadh was promoting peace between Pakistan and India.
Qureshi's telephonic conversation both with the Saudi and UAE foreign ministers suggested a coordinated move by the key Gulf countries. Pakistan is also trying to sort out other issues with Saudi Arabia and UAE, something that created a hiccup in bilateral ties.

"Conveying his profound regards for the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques His Majesty King Salman bin Abdulaziz, and His Royal Highness Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, Foreign Minister Qureshi reaffirmed Pakistan’s abiding fraternal ties with Saudi Arabia," said the foreign office.

Qureshi appreciated the steps taken by the Kingdom’s leadership in resolving differences among the countries of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), as well as the recent initiative for promoting resolution of issues in Yemen through dialogue and diplomacy.

He also reiterated Pakistan’s support for the Kingdom’s territorial integrity and sovereignty. The Saudi Foreign Minister acknowledged Pakistan’s continued and steadfast support to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Praising the “Saudi Green Initiative” and the “Green Middle East Initiative” announced by His Royal Highness Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, Foreign Minister Qureshi termed it a major initiative for reducing global carbon emissions. The Saudi FM lauded Prime Minister Imran Khan’s ground-breaking measures already taken in Pakistan, in the same arena.

Qureshi expressed Pakistan’s commitment to augmenting cooperation with the Kingdom in all spheres. Appreciating the two countries’ collaboration in multilateral organizations, he hoped that this mutual support and partnership will further strengthen in future. Reciprocating positively, Prince Faisal expressed readiness to further fortify bilateral cooperation with Pakistan.

The two Foreign Ministers agreed to maintain steady momentum of high-level exchanges between the two countries.
 
Pakistan rejects 'baseless Indian allegations of infiltration' across Line of Control

Foreign Office spokesperson Zahid Hafeez Chaudhri on Sunday rejected reports published by Indian media which quoted an Indian official as saying that "terrorists are waiting at launch pads to infiltrate" into occupied Kashmir from Pakistan.

"We categorically reject the baseless allegations that Pakistan wanted to infiltrate so-called 'terrorists' via the Line of Control (LoC)," Chaudhri said in a statement.

In a report published earlier this week, Indian publication The Hindu quoted an unnamed security official as saying that "140 terrorists are waiting at launch pads to infiltrate into Jammu and Kashmir and the terror infrastructure across the LoC remains in place.

"The [Indian] army had been noticing the continued presence of around 140 terrorists at the launch pads across the LoC, likely waiting to infiltrate into Jammu and Kashmir, but the robust counter-infiltration grid had so far desisted them from making any such attempts," the report said.

"They tried in the past, but had to return after alert jawans foiled their nefarious designs," the official said, according to The Hindu.

In his statement today, Chaudhri said India's "smear campaign against Pakistan is well-known and was fully exposed" by EU DisinfoLab last year in its investigation titled Indian Chronicles.

The Brussels-based EU DisinfoLab had uncovered a vast network of 265 coordinated fake local media outlets in 65 countries serving Indian interests, as well as multiple dubious think tanks and NGOs. The network was active in Brussels and Geneva in producing and amplifying content designed to, primarily, undermine Pakistan.

"The Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir (IIOJK) is one of the most militarised zones in the world with over 900,000 Indian security personnel. India has erected multi-tiered fence, installed electronic surveillance equipment and set up multiple layers of security, making it impossible for anything to cross the LoC to enter IIOJK. Therefore, such allegations recycled from time to time have no basis to stand on," Chaudhri pointed out.

On the other hand, India has been involved in state terrorism in occupied Kashmir against Pakistan and in other areas of the country, including the blast in Lahore's Johar Town in June, he noted.

The FO spokesperson also recalled that Pakistan had, in 2020, presented a dossier on India's "aiding, abetting and financing of state-sponsored terrorism against Pakistan" to the international community.

Referring to the agreement between Pakistan and India earlier this year, in which both countries had recommitted themselves to the 2003 ceasefire arrangement at the Line of Control, Chaudhri said it was done "in the interest of regional peace and security and to save Kashmiri lives".

"India must not use baseless and misleading allegations of so-called 'infiltration' attempts as a handy ploy to find excuses to scuttle the ceasefire understanding," he added.

"India must also refrain from peddling falsehoods and creating pretexts for false flag operations. Such irresponsible conduct would only result in further undermining peace and security in the region," the FO spokesperson said.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1639487/p...ations-of-infiltration-across-line-of-control
 
Not sure why we even expect Pakistan to keep its committment. We are really naive and gullible. This is a perpetual war which we have to win everyday against a determined and scroupless enemy which stands up everytime even after a fall.
 
Not sure why we even expect Pakistan to keep its committment. We are really naive and gullible. This is a perpetual war which we have to win everyday against a determined and scroupless enemy which stands up everytime even after a fall.

Much worse can be said about India. A coward country too stupid to realise that Kashmiris don't want to live with them. Whenever your soldiers get a spanking Indian's cries like babies blaming Pakistan for their woes. Some 2 million soldiers in the occupied valley yet these so called terrorists keep whacking your inept soldiers daily. How many times do you want your noses to be rubbed on the ground? How many soldiers of yours do you want to see murdered by the Kashmiris? India is too thick to see it's policy of pacifying the Kashmiris has and always will fail. Pak will always stand up and defeat Indian terrorism as can be seen now that we have kicked you out of Afghanistan.
 
With the historical changing dynamics of the region the Kashmir issue will be resolved within 5 years. Everything from Afghanistan to the internal issue in Pak and Bharat are all connected. We will most likely see an independent Kashmir after a lot more bloodshed.
 
With the historical changing dynamics of the region the Kashmir issue will be resolved within 5 years. Everything from Afghanistan to the internal issue in Pak and Bharat are all connected. We will most likely see an independent Kashmir after a lot more bloodshed.

Where will this "bloodshed" be coming from? Do you think the Pak Army will attack India to "liberate" Kashmir, or do you think divisions of jihadis on horses will cross the LoC and engage Indian tanks and Rafaels?

It is one thing to wage a guerrilla war against a foreign Army that has very strict rules of engagement meant to protect civilians, and an entirely different thing to attack an Army protecting its homeland. How many times has the Pakistani Army attacked India and what have been the territorial changes in the last 70 years?

Stop being delusional.
 
Interior minister slams India for accusing Pakistan of infiltrating terrorists into IoK

ISLAMABAD: Interior Minister Sheikh Rasheed told the media Tuesday that India’s home minister made an “irresponsible” statement about Pakistan sending militants into Indian occupied Kashmir via the Line of Control (LoC).

On Sunday, the Foreign Office had released a statement denying India’s allegations citing it was “impossible for anything to cross the Line of Control to enter IOJK”.

The interior minister held a news conference at the National Database and Registration Authority (NADRA) headquarters today where he answered several questions.

Rasheed categorically rejected the Indian home minister's statement, saying that Pakistan was not behind any incursion into occupied Kashmir.

The minister said Pakistan’s sympathies lie with the people of Occupied Kashmir. He clarified that the country cannot be harmed from its borders, adding that enemies of the state want to harm Pakistan from the inside.

Talking about the situation in Afghanistan, Rasheed said that Pakistan has nothing to do with Afghan politics and that Islamabad only wants peace in the region.

In response to a question about the Afghan Ambassador’s daughter, Rasheed told media that she has gone to Germany. He added that Pakistani authorities have asked for her phone number and have sought to speak to her online, to investigate the matter further.

On the issue of fake identity cards issued by NADRA, Rasheed said that all those involved in the malpractice will be expelled. The minister said that he will be addressing issues related to NADRA soon and will take guidelines from the prime minister on the matter.

Rasheed informed the media that foolproof security is being arranged for Muharram and requested citizens to follow SOPs outlined by the NCOC.

The minister revealed that internet services will be blocked in erstwhile FATA from today till the 10th of Muharram.

Answering another question, he said that names of the suspects in the Noor Muqaddam murder case have been added to the Exit Control List (ECL).

https://www.geo.tv/latest/364489-in...-pakistan-of-infiltrating-terrorists-into-iok
 
Where will this "bloodshed" be coming from? Do you think the Pak Army will attack India to "liberate" Kashmir, or do you think divisions of jihadis on horses will cross the LoC and engage Indian tanks and Rafaels?

It is one thing to wage a guerrilla war against a foreign Army that has very strict rules of engagement meant to protect civilians, and an entirely different thing to attack an Army protecting its homeland. How many times has the Pakistani Army attacked India and what have been the territorial changes in the last 70 years?

Stop being delusional.

No I think the Kashmiris themselves will kill your soldiers like they are at the moment. There has been bloodshed in IoK for since 1990 or something it case it missed you? Will you deny that too in your drivel?? You need to understand that neither Pak nor the Kashmiris consider Kashmir a part of India, this is the entire point. Had it been Delhi or Mumbai then no outside force would be interested in capturing it. The changes that have occurred is AJK has been liberated moreover how long did it took India 200 years to free itself from the British. Historically 80 years or something is nothing when the Moghuls ruled you for up to a thousand years.
 
No I think the Kashmiris themselves will kill your soldiers like they are at the moment. There has been bloodshed in IoK for since 1990 or something it case it missed you? Will you deny that too in your drivel?? You need to understand that neither Pak nor the Kashmiris consider Kashmir a part of India, this is the entire point. Had it been Delhi or Mumbai then no outside force would be interested in capturing it. The changes that have occurred is AJK has been liberated moreover how long did it took India 200 years to free itself from the British. Historically 80 years or something is nothing when the Moghuls ruled you for up to a thousand years.

You said that "Kashmir issue will be resolved within 5 years". When I asked you not to be delusional, you referred to the same stuff that has been happening for the last 30 years. If it hasn't worked in the last 30 years, it is delusional to think it will result in a change in the next 5 years.

Your knowledge of history is really poor. Mughal power in India lasted for 182 and not a thousand years, from Babar's victory in the First Battle of Panipat in 1525 to Auranzeb's death in 1707. By 1719, the Maratha army had reached Delhi having driven the Mughals out of the Deccan.

No more replies.
 
You said that "Kashmir issue will be resolved within 5 years". When I asked you not to be delusional, you referred to the same stuff that has been happening for the last 30 years. If it hasn't worked in the last 30 years, it is delusional to think it will result in a change in the next 5 years.

Your knowledge of history is really poor. Mughal power in India lasted for 182 and not a thousand years, from Babar's victory in the First Battle of Panipat in 1525 to Auranzeb's death in 1707. By 1719, the Maratha army had reached Delhi having driven the Mughals out of the Deccan.

No more replies.

There is nothing dekusional about anything other then your thinking. Every problem is eventually resolved one way or another. Just because something has not been resolved does not mean it never will, the world now is a very different place to what it was when Kashmiri resistance against Indian terrorism began.

Yeah you are well known to run away when there is too much heat i the kitchen. There are many different views as to how long the Mughal's ruled India, this can not be discussed now when you are too afriad to go in to detail.
 
There is nothing dekusional about anything other then your thinking. Every problem is eventually resolved one way or another. Just because something has not been resolved does not mean it never will, the world now is a very different place to what it was when Kashmiri resistance against Indian terrorism began.

Yeah you are well known to run away when there is too much heat i the kitchen. There are many different views as to how long the Mughal's ruled India, this can not be discussed now when you are too afriad to go in to detail.

You seem to be too proud about Mughal rule of India. Keep in mind that the rule happened and started more so in present day Pakistan to the extent that it successfully converted the religion of most you and your forefathers. You seem to rejoice in this tragedy by foolishly assuming and adopting their identity. Thats delusion of the ultimate order.
 
You seem to be too proud about Mughal rule of India. Keep in mind that the rule happened and started more so in present day Pakistan to the extent that it successfully converted the religion of most you and your forefathers. You seem to rejoice in this tragedy by foolishly assuming and adopting their identity. Thats delusion of the ultimate order.

You have no evidence of any forceful conversions anymore then I have of your ancestors being forcefully converted to Hinduism. Proud or not I am just stating the facts. You seem to be completely ignorant of all the things the Moghul's and Muslim's provided to your country. I pity your commonsense if Muslim contribution to India is a tragedy to you. I have simply chosen to follow the message for Islam that seems to get under the skin of your type for some odd reason.
 
You have no evidence of any forceful conversions anymore then I have of your ancestors being forcefully converted to Hinduism. Proud or not I am just stating the facts. You seem to be completely ignorant of all the things the Moghul's and Muslim's provided to your country. I pity your commonsense if Muslim contribution to India is a tragedy to you. I have simply chosen to follow the message for Islam that seems to get under the skin of your type for some odd reason.
There never has been any concept of conversion in Hinduism let alone by force. Again, you seem to be somewhat proud and taking credit for what the moguls did (by some twisted inheritance of their identity and accomplishments if you call them as such). No wonder your country continues to struggle with identity.

And your coersion to follow along and disdain for the different is not surprising rather consistent.
 
India gave last draft on possible agreement on Kashmir issue in March 2007: New paper

The paper, by Jawaharlal Nehru University associate professor Happymon Jacob, is based on interviews with Indian and Pakistani officials who were involved in the back channel negotiations on the Kashmir dispute


The Indian side provided Pakistan the last draft on a possible agreement on the Kashmir issue in March 2007 following nearly three years of secret negotiations before talks stopped because of a political crisis in Islamabad, according to a new paper from Georgetown University.

The paper, by Jawaharlal Nehru University associate professor Happymon Jacob, is based on interviews with Indian and Pakistani officials who were involved in the back channel negotiations on the Kashmir dispute and contains hitherto unknown aspects of the efforts to resolve the issue by then Pakistani military ruler Pervez Musharraf and prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh.

Riaz Mohammad Khan, who was Pakistan’s foreign secretary during 2005-08, said the Indian side gave the last draft in early March 2007, which was “close to what might have become the final document” if negotiations hadn’t come to a halt.

The Pakistani side didn’t get an opportunity to return the draft with its comments because of the sudden political crisis which sent the Musharraf government into a tailspin.

On March 9, 2007, Musharraf had unconstitutionally suspended Pakistan’s then chief justice, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, and this triggered massive political protests that weakened the military ruler. Following elections the next year, Musharraf was pressured by political parties to quit as president in August 2008.

The paper, titled “The Kashmir Back Channel: India-Pakistan Negotiations on Kashmir from 2004 to 2007” and prepared for the Institute for the Study of Diplomacy at Georgetown University, recounts secret negotiations between the two sides for the proposed agreement on Kashmir that involved what came to be known as the “four-point formula”.

The stage for the negotiations on Kashmir was set by a ceasefire on the Line of Control (LoC) in November 2003, which itself was the outcome of behind-the-scenes talks between then Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) chief CD Sahay and the then head of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Lt Gen Ehsan-ul-Haq, who met at undisclosed locations outside the subcontinent.

In January 2004, Musharraf had a “quiet discussion” with Tariq Aziz, who later became Pakistan’s pointperson for negotiations with India, and India’s then national security adviser Brajesh Mishra that kick-started talks on how to move forward on the Kashmir issue.

Despite a change in government in India following Vajpayee’s defeat in the general election, the “dedicated Kashmir back channel itself effectively began only in late 2004, after the Manmohan Singh government took office in New Delhi in May 2004”, according to the paper.

Several local and international factors helped facilitate the secret talks, including Vajpayee’s outreach to Kashmiris in 2003 and encouragement from the US government, which was keen to ensure there was no India-Pakistan friction while Washington and its allies were busy with the war on terror in Afghanistan.

Satinder Lambah, who served as Manmohan Singh’s special envoy for Kashmir, has said the proposed agreement was based on a four-point formula that would include no redrawing of borders, the people of Jammu and Kashmir on either side of the LoC being able to move freely from one side to the other, an end to hostility, violence, and terrorism and military forces on both sides being kept to the minimum, ensure self-governance on both sides of the LoC, and consultative mechanisms to look into socio-economic issues.

However, Pakistani and Indian officials are divided on whether a draft agreement was in place by early 2007. Riaz Khan, Pakistan’s former foreign secretary Jalil Abbas Jeelani and former foreign minister Khurshid Kasuri believe the draft was ready, with Kasuri even contending it was “ready for signature”.

But former Indian national security adviser MK Narayanan said this was not a “formal diplomatic agreement of any kind”, and at most, it “must have been a discussion paper, exchange of which is routine in diplomatic negotiations before a final deal is reached”.

The two countries were also divided on the matter managing issues of mutual concern in Jammu and Kashmir, with the Pakistani side favouring “joint mechanisms”, while the Indian side wanted “consultative arrangements”, according to the paper. Once signed, the deal was designed to be in force for 15 to 20 years, after which the two sides would revisit it.

“Indian officials seem to think that the phrase ‘joint mechanisms’ infringes on the sovereign claims of each state on J&K. There is little clarity whether the document that was close to being finalised in 2007 had mentioned joint or consultative mechanisms,” the paper states.

Though this was the first time India and Pakistan engaged in sustained and structured back-channel negotiations to resolve the Kashmir issue, Musharraf’s political woes resulted in things running aground.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/new-paper-on-india-pakistan-back-channel-talks-on-kashmir-during-200407-101628761774290.html
 
There never has been any concept of conversion in Hinduism let alone by force. Again, you seem to be somewhat proud and taking credit for what the moguls did (by some twisted inheritance of their identity and accomplishments if you call them as such). No wonder your country continues to struggle with identity.

And your coersion to follow along and disdain for the different is not surprising rather consistent.

That coming from a community who still keep crying over why million''s left Hinduism only exposes your hypocrisy. Well, the Christians, Buddhists and Sikhs of the subcontinent also left Hinduism much to your disappointment. I see so what are the likes of Julia Roberts who converted to Hinduism if there no no such concept? Moreover, why are you crying about Muslim's of the subcontinent leaving Hinduism then?

Our country has a proper identity unlike yours where nutcases are always running around bullying non Hindu's obsessed with "ghar wapsi" nonsense. On the other hand there are the American wannabe's who are too ashamed of their own culture wearing back to front caps and miniskirts. Who are you people today??

Of course as a Muslim I am proud off all the Moghuls contributed to the entire subcontinent. I see nothing wrong in that at all.
 
There is no such thing as conversion in Hinduism then what is all this "ghar wapsi" baloney in India all about?? We see so many video's on youtube nowadays where Hindu hardliners threatening Muslim's to go to Pakistan or the graveyard. The latest one from a few days back in Delhi making the same old threats because these people don't believe in religious conversion!!.
 
That coming from a community who still keep crying over why million''s left Hinduism only exposes your hypocrisy. Well, the Christians, Buddhists and Sikhs of the subcontinent also left Hinduism much to your disappointment. I see so what are the likes of Julia Roberts who converted to Hinduism if there no no such concept? Moreover, why are you crying about Muslim's of the subcontinent leaving Hinduism then?

Hindus dont care about people abandoning the religion to the one of their choice. What we dont want to happen is forced/coerced conversions through missionaries/NGOs/marriages. Again, there is no formal ritual of being a Hindu. Anyone can decide and just say he is a Hindu and he gets to be one and claim as such. Dont assume the fringe cases (and the reason you see them on TV is because they are as such) as the norm. I havent seen (or know) Julia Robert adopted Hinduism. Whatever you may have seen on TV I think might be just cosmetics and pleasantries.

Our country has a proper identity unlike yours where nutcases are always running around bullying non Hindu's obsessed with "ghar wapsi" nonsense. On the other hand there are the American wannabe's who are too ashamed of their own culture wearing back to front caps and miniskirts. Who are you people today??

Indian culture is dynamic, inclusive and expansive. People have the choice and liberty to do what they want and makes them happy. If it is wearing miniskirts - so be it. By the way, these comments from you are very regressive and out of place and time. Dangerous since you are seem to be dogmatic and assertive of your thinking on others. Law enforcement in your country should watch you.

Of course as a Muslim I am proud off all the Moghuls contributed to the entire subcontinent. I see nothing wrong in that at all.

Good for you.
.
 
There is no such thing as conversion in Hinduism then what is all this "ghar wapsi" baloney in India all about?? We see so many video's on youtube nowadays where Hindu hardliners threatening Muslim's to go to Pakistan or the graveyard. The latest one from a few days back in Delhi making the same old threats because these people don't believe in religious conversion!!.

Dilip Kumar becomes A R Rehman and becomes an Oscar winning composer and one of India’s finest musicians. All his success came after conversion.

What would happen if the reverse happens in Pakistan?

Now yes beating up a guy for eating beef is despicable or show racial discrimination but at the same time but trust me there are guys who also incite and needle people when it is not necessary like throwing stones at Hindu processions etc
Or asking for Sharia law in western countries. does anyone even have guts to do the opposite in Islamic countries?

Extremism exists every where but it’s not even a equivalence to compare the tolerance of Hindus to any other religion.

Since you can put sentences together coherently, I am sure you have some level of iq, so obviously you know pretty well about what I am saying but obviously you want to go on a rhetoric to make it better for yourself, so please do continue. There is obviously nothing can be done here with a counter argument.
 
[MENTION=150069]Lego20[/MENTION]

And where are the forced conversions you are on about?? How can anyone be a Hindu when they don't believe in your God's and Goddesses nor practise the rituals? There are many people who embrace Hinduism if you did some research on the subject. You see the thing is that India loves to take the money of Christian evangelists in particular then cries foul play when they preach their faith. Stop taking their money then.

Cheap way out saying Indian culture welcomes everything to escape criticism. No, Indian's are most envious of America and it's culture. You don't give a damn about other cultures nor imitate them so stop pretending. You won't see much of African or Chinese culture being adopted by Indian's, it's the American's you want to be like as much as you deny it. Indian culture today is anything but Indian, you have lost your soul.

So wearing miniskirts is so progressive because the west does it only exposes you are just a bunch of wannabe's. Why were you not aping the west 50 years back? Law enforcements should keep an eye on me for condemning miniskirts suggests you need to see a psychiatrist more then anything else. Life has some rules, humans are supposed to be different from beasts. We are supposed to have commonsense if not intelligence.
 
Dilip Kumar becomes A R Rehman and becomes an Oscar winning composer and one of India’s finest musicians. All his success came after conversion.

What would happen if the reverse happens in Pakistan?

Now yes beating up a guy for eating beef is despicable or show racial discrimination but at the same time but trust me there are guys who also incite and needle people when it is not necessary like throwing stones at Hindu processions etc
Or asking for Sharia law in western countries. does anyone even have guts to do the opposite in Islamic countries?

Extremism exists every where but it’s not even a equivalence to compare the tolerance of Hindus to any other religion.

Since you can put sentences together coherently, I am sure you have some level of iq, so obviously you know pretty well about what I am saying but obviously you want to go on a rhetoric to make it better for yourself, so please do continue. There is obviously nothing can be done here with a counter argument.

But the thing is Pakistanis like me know minorities are treated poorly in our country so there is nothing for me to answer. There are however many successful non Muslim's in Pak only that they are not former Muslim's.

What makes Indian's appear foolish is the impression you give of being so great! That you are a beacon of hope for entire humanity and rubbish like that. AR Rehman being a celebrity will most likely not be attacked by anyone, it is the common non Hindu in India who is always under the cosh.

Yes in Islamic countries like Pakistan people have never voted for Mullah's or any religious party in to power. It is in India where Modi and his hard-line Hindu fanatics have taken power and now rule the roost threating the Muslim's. These are not one off incidents either before you tell me that. As the Muslim's are the largest minority in the west it includes fanatics as well but you can relax coz there will be no Shariah law implemented.

Once again if there is no concept of conversion in Hinduism then what is this "ghar wapsi" mumbo jumbo all about?? If you can't answer a simple question then better not to debate any further to save face.
 
[MENTION=150069]Lego20[/MENTION]

And where are the forced conversions you are on about?? How can anyone be a Hindu when they don't believe in your God's and Goddesses nor practise the rituals? There are many people who embrace Hinduism if you did some research on the subject. You see the thing is that India loves to take the money of Christian evangelists in particular then cries foul play when they preach their faith. Stop taking their money then.

Cheap way out saying Indian culture welcomes everything to escape criticism. No, Indian's are most envious of America and it's culture. You don't give a damn about other cultures nor imitate them so stop pretending. You won't see much of African or Chinese culture being adopted by Indian's, it's the American's you want to be like as much as you deny it. Indian culture today is anything but Indian, you have lost your soul.

So wearing miniskirts is so progressive because the west does it only exposes you are just a bunch of wannabe's. Why were you not aping the west 50 years back? Law enforcements should keep an eye on me for condemning miniskirts suggests you need to see a psychiatrist more then anything else. Life has some rules, humans are supposed to be different from beasts. We are supposed to have commonsense if not intelligence.

Oh boy! Be open minded and stop being overly judgmental and prejudiced. The existence of ours is immense in its variations and diversity - all created by what we think of as God. You are doing a disservice to him by trying to paint it in one color.

May peace be with you.
 
But the thing is Pakistanis like me know minorities are treated poorly in our country so there is nothing for me to answer. There are however many successful non Muslim's in Pak only that they are not former Muslim's.

What makes Indian's appear foolish is the impression you give of being so great! That you are a beacon of hope for entire humanity and rubbish like that. AR Rehman being a celebrity will most likely not be attacked by anyone, it is the common non Hindu in India who is always under the cosh.

Yes in Islamic countries like Pakistan people have never voted for Mullah's or any religious party in to power. It is in India where Modi and his hard-line Hindu fanatics have taken power and now rule the roost threating the Muslim's. These are not one off incidents either before you tell me that. As the Muslim's are the largest minority in the west it includes fanatics as well but you can relax coz there will be no Shariah law implemented.

Once again if there is no concept of conversion in Hinduism then what is this "ghar wapsi" mumbo jumbo all about?? If you can't answer a simple question then better not to debate any further to save face.


Firstly regardless of who is in power Indian constitution is still secular and the same rights as it did before 2014.

On the other hand the most liberal Pakistani government is pals with Taliban, doesn’t have the guts to amend blasphemy laws, calls Osama a shaheed and has other view points that would be considered outdated in 1400 AD.

So no sheet that Pakistanis doesn’t vote for mullahs or extreme politics.
 
Firstly regardless of who is in power Indian constitution is still secular and the same rights as it did before 2014.

On the other hand the most liberal Pakistani government is pals with Taliban, doesn’t have the guts to amend blasphemy laws, calls Osama a shaheed and has other view points that would be considered outdated in 1400 AD.

So no sheet that Pakistanis doesn’t vote for mullahs or extreme politics.

Constitution is not worth the ink it is written on when no one pays heed to it. Don't take my word for it when Rahul Gandhi is saying the same thing. Pak is telling the Taliban do what you want just don't interfere in our affairs. As for Osama you know the American's had killed him many times before the actual event? IK calling him a martyr does not speak for every Pakistani.

I have always spoken against the blasphemy laws, at least we admit our faults where as secular India tells the world how tolerant they are by constantly harassing, bullying and even murdering it's Muslims. You are in no position to speak on Shariah law when you know nothing about it. It would be like me lecturing you on the Ramayana.

We did not choose a Muslim fanatic as PM like you did a Hindu illiterate one.
 
A small group of the Indian community recently held a demonstration in the United Kingdom to pour their venom against the Pakistani community, which the locals denounced as another attempt by the right-wing Hindu groups to attack Muslims all over the world.

The protest was termed as an effort to create an Islamophobic atmosphere in the UK which is rapidly growing in India. The speakers tried to stir sentiments against the Pakistani community living in the UK by making an announcement to boycott the restaurants run by Pakistanis.

While on the other hand, enlightened Britishers have expressed their serious concerns over the efforts of the Indian government to infuse the Hindutva mindset at home and export it into the British society.

They also blamed the neo-Nazi Indian regime for polluting the mindset of peaceful and harmonious societies outside. “This campaign is nothing but a form of prejudice and bigotry against Muslims," the British citizens opined.

“This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have heard in my life. So, these Pakistani people come to the UK for a better life to provide for their family, just like Indians, but our Hindu brothers are painting it is as a conspiracy to fund and kill Indian soldiers,” another person concerned said.

They said the entire Indian nation is suffering from the Hindutva mindset and are just making an issue out of a non-issue because of their hatred.

A recently held mega online international conference titled ‘Dismantling Global Hindutva’ in the US was the first academic attempt initiated by academia to understand the undercurrents of Hindutva and its impact on western societies including western campuses of renowned universities.

The conference was addressed by speakers from leading universities in the world including Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, University of Chicago, and Berkeley. Over 600 academics across the world attended the online event.

The participants expressed their concerns that Hindutva is becoming a global phenomenon and even the western universities are not safe from its influence propagated by Indian Hindu students.

The conference highlighted that Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) was promoting Hindutva. Motivated by the Nazi ideology, its regulatory principle was to transform India from a secular democracy to a Brahmin state where Muslims, Christians Jews and other religious minorities were demoted to the position of second-class citizens.

Speakers were of the view that Hindutva is a political philosophy styled after European fascism of the early 20th century, an ideology that privileged a cult of personality and authoritarian leadership.

The speakers also noted that the term Hindutva was a strategy based on violence, hatred and terrorism. It is an enemy to democracy and has been targeting freedom of speech since the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) came into power.

They were of the view that hatred was being generated by the Hindutva narrative which is against humanity because the philosophy placed Hindutva as a vehicle, and the message was actually the supremacy of Brahmin Varna over any human bearing stark resemblance to Hitler’s neo-Nazi ideology.

Speakers were of the view that in the western world, Hinduism was promoted as a culture rather than a religion during the last half a century but now it has changed its face as a brutal and extremist religious monster that wanted to kill everybody except Brahmins.

Hindutva had a history of ill-treatment of women, zero respect for transgender rights, minority exploitation, and extreme policies towards Muslims, Christians, Jews and non-Brahmins. It violated the basic fundamental rights of everybody.

In the name of Hindutva, the Indian government had instituted discriminatory policies including a ban on beef, restrictions on religious conversion and interfaith weddings, and the introduction of religious discrimination through controversial India’s citizenship laws.

These measures led to a horrifying rise in religious and caste-based violence, including hate crimes, lynching and rapes directed against Muslims, Dalits, Sikhs, Christians, Adivasis, and dissident Hindus. Women of these communities are being specially targeted.

Global experts have warned that India has become an epicentre of social terrorism, using highly negative trends for creating communal division and hatred. The experts and media analysts are classifying India as a factory of communal and social terrorism exporting the same globally.
 
A small group of the Indian community recently held a demonstration in the United Kingdom to pour their venom against the Pakistani community, which the locals denounced as another attempt by the right-wing Hindu groups to attack Muslims all over the world.

The protest was termed as an effort to create an Islamophobic atmosphere in the UK which is rapidly growing in India. The speakers tried to stir sentiments against the Pakistani community living in the UK by making an announcement to boycott the restaurants run by Pakistanis.

While on the other hand, enlightened Britishers have expressed their serious concerns over the efforts of the Indian government to infuse the Hindutva mindset at home and export it into the British society.

They also blamed the neo-Nazi Indian regime for polluting the mindset of peaceful and harmonious societies outside. “This campaign is nothing but a form of prejudice and bigotry against Muslims," the British citizens opined.

“This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have heard in my life. So, these Pakistani people come to the UK for a better life to provide for their family, just like Indians, but our Hindu brothers are painting it is as a conspiracy to fund and kill Indian soldiers,” another person concerned said.

They said the entire Indian nation is suffering from the Hindutva mindset and are just making an issue out of a non-issue because of their hatred.

A recently held mega online international conference titled ‘Dismantling Global Hindutva’ in the US was the first academic attempt initiated by academia to understand the undercurrents of Hindutva and its impact on western societies including western campuses of renowned universities.

The conference was addressed by speakers from leading universities in the world including Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, University of Chicago, and Berkeley. Over 600 academics across the world attended the online event.

The participants expressed their concerns that Hindutva is becoming a global phenomenon and even the western universities are not safe from its influence propagated by Indian Hindu students.

The conference highlighted that Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) was promoting Hindutva. Motivated by the Nazi ideology, its regulatory principle was to transform India from a secular democracy to a Brahmin state where Muslims, Christians Jews and other religious minorities were demoted to the position of second-class citizens.

Speakers were of the view that Hindutva is a political philosophy styled after European fascism of the early 20th century, an ideology that privileged a cult of personality and authoritarian leadership.

The speakers also noted that the term Hindutva was a strategy based on violence, hatred and terrorism. It is an enemy to democracy and has been targeting freedom of speech since the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) came into power.

They were of the view that hatred was being generated by the Hindutva narrative which is against humanity because the philosophy placed Hindutva as a vehicle, and the message was actually the supremacy of Brahmin Varna over any human bearing stark resemblance to Hitler’s neo-Nazi ideology.

Speakers were of the view that in the western world, Hinduism was promoted as a culture rather than a religion during the last half a century but now it has changed its face as a brutal and extremist religious monster that wanted to kill everybody except Brahmins.

Hindutva had a history of ill-treatment of women, zero respect for transgender rights, minority exploitation, and extreme policies towards Muslims, Christians, Jews and non-Brahmins. It violated the basic fundamental rights of everybody.

In the name of Hindutva, the Indian government had instituted discriminatory policies including a ban on beef, restrictions on religious conversion and interfaith weddings, and the introduction of religious discrimination through controversial India’s citizenship laws.

These measures led to a horrifying rise in religious and caste-based violence, including hate crimes, lynching and rapes directed against Muslims, Dalits, Sikhs, Christians, Adivasis, and dissident Hindus. Women of these communities are being specially targeted.

Global experts have warned that India has become an epicentre of social terrorism, using highly negative trends for creating communal division and hatred. The experts and media analysts are classifying India as a factory of communal and social terrorism exporting the same globally.

Can u copy the link of source please
 
Despite continued tensions between Pakistan and India, Islamabad on Friday said as a matter of policy, the country wanted to continue with ceasefire along the Line of Control (LoC) and the international border with its eastern neighbour.

“As a matter of policy, Pakistan wants ceasefire to be observed and respected,” Foreign Office spokesperson Asim Iftikhar told a weekly news briefing here.

“At the same time, we take all and any ceasefire violations by India seriously, and this has been a very high number in recent years,” he added when asked to provide figures for the ceasefire violations in recent months.

The spokesperson said while Pakistan knew how to respond to escalation from India, it always favoured de-escalation.

”The understanding reached between DGMOs in February can be seen in that context,” he added.

Pakistan and India renewed the 2003 truce in February this year after behind the scene talks between the senior military and intelligence officials of the two countries.

The ceasefire rekindled hopes for some kind of rapprochement but the situation returned to the same after the two countries could not take further steps to de-escalate tensions.

Nevertheless, the ceasefire is holding despite verbal exchanges between the two countries.

In fact, the spokesperson began a weekly briefing by condemning the ongoing human rights abuses by the Indian security forces in Occupied Jammu and Kashmir.

“India’s naked state terrorism in IIOJK has exposed its real face to the world. In an environment of complete impunity, communication blackout and absence of international access, systematic violations of human rights are taking place, with an increasing number of arbitrary arrests and detentions and extrajudicial killings,” the spokesperson said.

During the last week alone, the spokesperson said, 10 innocent Kashmiris were martyred in fake encounters and so-called “cordon-and-search-operations”. A Kashmiri civilian was taken into custody and then brutally murdered in a fake encounter in Bandipora. The spokesperson also condemned the recent “irresponsible and provocative statement” reportedly made by the Indian Home Minister threatening so-called “surgical strikes”.

As you are aware, we have condemned this delusional statement that only goes to further demonstrate the BJP-RSS combine’s propensity to stoke regional tensions for both ideological reasons and political expediency, based on enmity towards Pakistan.”

He said Pakistan has repeatedly drawn the attention of the international community to India’s sinister designs of staging “false flag” operations to implicate Pakistan and Kashmiris.

“Let me reiterate that while Pakistan is a peace-loving country, we will spare no effort in resolutely thwarting any aggressive Indian designs, as was evident from Pakistan’s swift response to India’s

Balakot misadventure in 2019, including the downing of Indian combat aircraft and capture of Indian Air Force pilot.”

Regarding the Afghan situation, the spokesperson said Pakistan supported the continued engagement of the international community with the Afghan authorities, adding that the U.S.-Taliban talks in Doha are important in that regard.

“A sustained engagement will help achieve the desired objective of a peaceful and stable Afghanistan,” he added.
On the Deputy Secretary of State’s visit to Pakistan, the spokesperson said her visit to Pakistan underscored the importance of the long-standing relationship between Pakistan and the US.

“There were wide-ranging discussions that touched on various areas of bilateral cooperation.
State Department’s readouts and Deputy Secretary’s own tweets about the meetings confirm the broad nature of those discussions.”

He said it was agreed to continue close communication and coordination on the situation in Afghanistan, security and counter-terrorism, trade and investment, climate change, economic cooperation, and regional connectivity.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2325070/pakistan-favours-de-escalation-with-india
 
Problem is with so many internal problems in India they need to deflect the attention to IoK. The are angry about being thrown out of Afghanistan. Old Bakshi is upset why India agreed to a ceasefire at the LOC giving Pak the opportunity to bring in the Afghan Taliban. Only war will decide Kashmir, nothing else.
 
Problem is with so many internal problems in India they need to deflect the attention to IoK. The are angry about being thrown out of Afghanistan. Old Bakshi is upset why India agreed to a ceasefire at the LOC giving Pak the opportunity to bring in the Afghan Taliban. Only war will decide Kashmir, nothing else.

Tried and failed.
 
Are you saying the separatist of Indian Kashmir is part of Pakistani govt?

Ask again. I am not sure what you are saying? I am telling you that IoK war is very much happening as I am typing this. It is the indigenous Kashmiris killing Indian soldiers almost daily now.
 
Ask again. I am not sure what you are saying? I am telling you that IoK war is very much happening as I am typing this. It is the indigenous Kashmiris killing Indian soldiers almost daily now.


Which war in any part of world given any resolution?
 
Back
Top