Pakistan cricket diversification discrimination

[ChuckLee]

We are always talking about England and how cricket is a classist game for the rich and white folk. No Muslims non Sikhs. However statistics would show you that ain’t the case. Heck we got Ali and Rashad as regulars. And nearly every game I see an Asian player playing in county.

However Pakistan I have never ever seen a non Muslim get through the ranks. And forget international cricket as it’s not happening. If you cite Mohammed yousuf, you’re part of the problem as he wasn’t always Mohammed yousuf.

I’ve been to Lahore and spoken to non Muslims who play cricket and are insanely talented and would walk into a UK country team. They tell me it’s extremely hard and they just don’t get picked or looked at but ignored.

Now something within Pakistan’s cricket culture needs to change. Pakistan needs to stop discriminating. I have my issues with Imran Khan, however I hope he can bring change and diversify and make things equal.

Why do you think non Muslims don’t get picked and do you ever see things changing?

 

[Mian]

Ever heard of a hindu guy name Danish Kaneria with 261 Test wickets?

 

[Pakistanian]

Ever heard of Danish Kaneria? He was like Inzamam's favorite bowler, in fact he was an overrated bowler that wasn't a match winner for Pakistan and he eventually got convicted for match fixing in England.

Then there's Mohammad Yousuf formerly Youhana, he was a Christian for most of his career and was made vice captain while he was Christian.

 

[MenInG]

We are always talking about England and how cricket is a classist game for the rich and white folk. No Muslims non Sikhs. However statistics would show you that ainÂ’t the case. Heck we got Ali and Rashad as regulars. And nearly every game I see an Asian player playing in county.

However Pakistan I have never ever seen a non Muslim get through the ranks. And forget international cricket as itÂ’s not happening. If you cite Mohammed yousuf, youÂ’re part of the problem as he wasnÂ’t always Mohammed yousuf.

IÂ’ve been to Lahore and spoken to non Muslims who play cricket and are insanely talented and would walk into a UK country team. They tell me itÂ’s extremely hard and they just donÂ’t get picked or looked at but ignored.

Now something within PakistanÂ’s cricket culture needs to change. Pakistan needs to stop discriminating. I have my issues with Imran Khan, however I hope he can bring change and diversify and make things equal.

Why do you think non Muslims donÂ’t get picked and do you ever see things changing?

Think you are exaggerating a wee bit in above.

 

[ChuckLee]

Ever heard of a hindu guy name Danish Kaneria with 261 Test wickets?

One guy. One guy. One guy. Only further erects my point.

 

[ChuckLee]

Think you are exaggerating a wee bit in above.

Not really. It’s a problem. It needs to be addressed. Stop hurrying your heads in the sand.

Listing 2 players out of the 1000’s in country and hundreds from international don’t make us diverse.

 

[Mian]

One guy. One guy. One guy. Only further erects my point.

Other than Yohana and Kaneria theere are more who played Test cricket for Pakistan including Wallis Mathias, Duncan Sharpe, Antao D’Souza, Anil Dalpat and Sohail Fazal. Next time use Google it helps

 

[slipcatch]

Not really. It’s a problem. It needs to be addressed. Stop hurrying your heads in the sand.

Listing 2 players out of the 1000’s in country and hundreds from international don’t make us diverse.

Pakistan isn't a diverse country, at least religiously.

If a person is good enough to play for Pakistan then a person would and had played for Pakistan.

I can't understand where this logic is coming from?

What are you trying to achieve here?

 

[ChuckLee]

Other than Yohana and Kaneria theere are more who played Test cricket for Pakistan including Wallis Mathias, Duncan Sharpe, Antao D’Souza, Anil Dalpat and Sohail Fazal. Next time use Google it helps

And how many games did they play? You had to dig deep and research for them names who know one even knows or remembers or had a sustained career. Try again

 

[ChuckLee]

Pakistan isn't a diverse country, at least religiously.

If a person is good enough to play for Pakistan then a person would and had played for Pakistan.

I can't understand where this logic is coming from?

What are you trying to achieve here?

Are you serious? If they are good enough the would play? Even talented Muslims plays can’t play for Pakistan because if politics l. And you think non Muslims can play that easily? You must live in Lala land

 

[slipcatch]

And how many games did they play? You had to dig deep and research for them names who know one even knows or remembers or had a sustained career. Try again

Bro, there are other players who only played few games because they weren't good enough, there were players who played 1992 world cup and i can't remember their name because they stop playing due to better player replaced them.

What are you tying to achieve here?

 

[slipcatch]

Are you serious? If they are good enough the would play? Even talented Muslims plays can’t play for Pakistan because if politics l. And you think non Muslims can play that easily? You must live in Lala land

I am not.

What is the purpose for you to create this illogical thread and go on a childish rant about something that isn't true.

 

[ChuckLee]

Bro, there are other players who only played few games because they weren't good enough, there were players who played 1992 world cup and i can't remember their name because they stop playing due to better player replaced them.

What are you tying to achieve here?

So you’ve had to go back to pre 1992 to mke a point. Do you know it’s nearly 2019?

Point I was making was what can we do to diversify and stop discriminating, but sure you pretend their ain’t a problem.

 

[ChuckLee]

We south Asians make up a small percentage of UK population and as a playsr myself I’ve seen tons of south Asians play country, semi professional and international cricket.

 

[slipcatch]

We south Asians make up a small percentage of UK population and as a playsr myself I’ve seen tons of south Asians play country, semi professional and international cricket.

Great because they are good at playing cricket. simple.

 

[ChuckLee]

Our rashid is better then any current Pakistani spinner

 

[aloo paratha]

Because minorities are about like 3% of Pakistan's population. I know Pakistan isn't the best place to live for minorities but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same in cricket.

Danish Kaneria and Mohammad Yousuf (Yousuf Youhana for a long part of his career) Have probably played over 100 tests between them. The other names posted above by another poster didn't play for long because they simply weren't good enough

Here are the Stats of those players

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/42673.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/40041.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/38999.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/41278.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/42664.html

 

[aloo paratha]

Our rashid is better then any current Pakistani spinner

Bro are you 10?? Ever heard of Yasir Shah? Hell even the Hindu Pakistani Danish Kaneria was much better than Adil rashid

 

[ChuckLee]

Because minorities are about like 3% of Pakistan's population. I know Pakistan isn't the best place to live for minorities but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same in cricket.

Danish Kaneria and Mohammad Yousuf (Yousuf Youhana for a long part of his career) Have probably played over 100 tests between them. The other names posted above by another poster didn't play for long because they simply weren't good enough

Here are the Stats of those players

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/42673.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/40041.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/38999.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/41278.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/42664.html

Let’s round Pakistan’s population to 200m. 3% of that is 6m. And you can not get a hand full of names. Hmmmm

 

[ChuckLee]

Bro are you 10?? Ever heard of Yasir Shah? Hell even the Hindu Pakistani Danish Kaneria was much better than Adil rashid

Sorry my mistake. I meant ODI cricket. And I didn’t say of all time I said current. And yes I’m a huge fan of Yasir shah I love watching him bowl in test cricket. I recall the last over and Pakistan needed a wicket to win the historic series in West Indies and be did it. I was so happy the legends got such a send off .what a game. I recon when re comes back he’s gonna be better then ever and will torment once again.

 

[slipcatch]

Let’s round Pakistan’s population to 200m. 3% of that is 6m. And you can not get a hand full of names. Hmmmm

Out of those 6m, how many are male or female, how many are under the age of playing cricket and how many wants to play cricket.

why are people still engaging in this non sensible whatever it is

 

[ChuckLee]

Out of those 6m, how many are male or female, how many are under the age of playing cricket and how many wants to play cricket.

why are people still engaging in this non sensible whatever it is

Yes I thought that was self explanatory but sure I’ll spoon feed you next time. Let’s assume it’s 50/50 in gender. 3m and say age you need to start playing cricket to be good enough to one day go through the ranks is 10, the playing numbers is still poor.

 

[slipcatch]

Yes I thought that was self explanatory but sure I’ll spoon feed you next time. Let’s assume it’s 50/50 in gender. 3m and say age you need to start playing cricket to be good enough to one day go through the ranks is 10, the playing numbers is still poor.

it isn't 50-50 lol

it isn't 10 lol

you can manipulate numbers upon your personal bias discretion

But go ahead, you seem frustrated, take it out on the internet.

 

[aloo paratha]

Let’s round Pakistan’s population to 200m. 3% of that is 6m. And you can not get a hand full of names. Hmmmm

Idk if the number is exactly 3%, but out of the 232 Pakistani mens test cricketers, 6 of them have been of a minority religion, which is pretty close to 3%.

Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[aloo paratha]

Sorry my mistake. I meant ODI cricket. And I didn’t say of all time I said current. And yes I’m a huge fan of Yasir shah I love watching him bowl in test cricket. I recall the last over and Pakistan needed a wicket to win the historic series in West Indies and be did it. I was so happy the legends got such a send off .what a game. I recon when re comes back he’s gonna be better then ever and will torment once again.

Still, Rashid is pretty mediocre. Shadab has better bowling stats than Rashid (albeit, Shadab's career is still pretty young), and Shadab is 20, and has lots of time to improve, whereas Rashid is over 30...

 

[ChuckLee]

Still, Rashid is pretty mediocre. Shadab has better bowling stats than Rashid (albeit, Shadab's career is still pretty young), and Shadab is 20, and has lots of time to improve, whereas Rashid is over 30...

Rashid is way more effective then shadab. Look at their rankings. Although Pakistanis only use the rankings when it benefits them lol. Rashid just turned 30 he ain’t over 30

 

[aloo paratha]

Rashid is way more effective then shadab. Look at their rankings. Although Pakistanis only use the rankings when it benefits them lol. Rashid just turned 30 he ain’t over 30

Even a single day past his 30th birthday is over 30...

Shadab is ranked lower because his career just started last year, Adil Rashid has been playing consistently for like 2-3 years.

 

[moghul]

We are always talking about England and how cricket is a classist game for the rich and white folk. No Muslims non Sikhs. However statistics would show you that ainÂ’t the case. Heck we got Ali and Rashad as regulars. And nearly every game I see an Asian player playing in county.

However Pakistan I have never ever seen a non Muslim get through the ranks. And forget international cricket as itÂ’s not happening. If you cite Mohammed yousuf, youÂ’re part of the problem as he wasnÂ’t always Mohammed yousuf.

IÂ’ve been to Lahore and spoken to non Muslims who play cricket and are insanely talented and would walk into a UK country team. They tell me itÂ’s extremely hard and they just donÂ’t get picked or looked at but ignored.

Now something within PakistanÂ’s cricket culture needs to change. Pakistan needs to stop discriminating. I have my issues with Imran Khan, however I hope he can bring change and diversify and make things equal.

Why do you think non Muslims donÂ’t get picked and do you ever see things changing?

Sheer non-sense and imaginary post. Please name at least one " insanely talented, who would walk into a UK country team" non-Muslim in Pakistan. Keep this forum to cricket only and don;t spread your anti-Pakistan propaganda here, thanks.

 

[barah_admi]

Ever heard of a hindu guy name Danish Kaneria with 261 Test wickets?

Hahahahah

We are always talking about England and how cricket is a classist game for the rich and white folk. No Muslims non Sikhs. However statistics would show you that ainÂ’t the case. Heck we got Ali and Rashad as regulars. And nearly every game I see an Asian player playing in county.

However Pakistan I have never ever seen a non Muslim get through the ranks. And forget international cricket as itÂ’s not happening. If you cite Mohammed yousuf, youÂ’re part of the problem as he wasnÂ’t always Mohammed yousuf.

IÂ’ve been to Lahore and spoken to non Muslims who play cricket and are insanely talented and would walk into a UK country team. They tell me itÂ’s extremely hard and they just donÂ’t get picked or looked at but ignored.

Now something within PakistanÂ’s cricket culture needs to change. Pakistan needs to stop discriminating. I have my issues with Imran Khan, however I hope he can bring change and diversify and make things equal.

Why do you think non Muslims donÂ’t get picked and do you ever see things changing?

Muslims and Asians in general make up a far larger percentage of the population in England and the rest of the UK than Hindus and Sikhs do in Pakistan, that alone would be a massive factor. Another pretty big problem is that the system is often corrupt for EVERYONE so of course those who are already a minority will be non existent in a system that has often required participants to pay their way in.

I mean ,for every one of those extremely talented Hindus and Sikhs you think could walk into "UK country team" (whatever that means lol), there are 20 Muslims...or those who at least make the same claim "oh yaar I was so good but they wouldn't let me get in".

Reality is this, could you name me 3 or 4 domestic level cricketers, who are HIndu or Sikh, who could replaced 3 or 4 of the current team?

 

[ChuckLee]

Sheer non-sense and imaginary post. Please name at least one " insanely talented, who would walk into a UK country team" non-Muslim in Pakistan. Keep this forum to cricket only and don;t spread your anti-Pakistan propaganda here, thanks.

First of all who are you?

Secondly this is the politics and pas time section.


Lastly explain how bringing up problems in Pakistan is anti Pakistan?

1400’s called, they want your logic and perception back

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan is amongst the worst countries in the world when it comes to treatment and rights of minorities, and obviously it has had an impact on them in all spheres of life and there is no doubt that some of the effects have trickled into cricket as well.

A country where minorities are gunned down and butchered frequently with their voices suppressed are not going to produce high-achievers at the same rate as they would have in a country where they are given equal rights and opportunities.

If Pakistan was a country where minorities were not discriminated against, we would have produced more Christian, Hindu, Sikh and Ahmadi etc. cricketers. However, in spite of the limitations and the constraints that they have been wrongfully subjected to, the few talented players who have managed to overcome these barriers have been given opportunities on merit and have not been discriminated against.

Obviously, the two standout example are Yousuf and Kaneria. In addition, quite a few other non-Muslim players have had international caps as well, but most of them were not good enough to have long careers.

There are still some non-Muslim domestic players in the country, but obviously since they are in the minority, the numbers are not great. Also, I think it is a bit of a stretch to assert that there are some minority cricketers in the country who would walk into English Counties. If they were that good, they would have made their way to the top like Yousaf and Kaneria.

What we can conclude from all of this is that there is no doubt that we would have produced more minority cricketers had as treated minorities better, but in spite of the discrimination and the segregation that they are subjected to, the very talented ones have still found a way to rise to the top.

 

[slipcatch]

Pakistan is amongst the worst countries in the world when it comes to treatment and rights of minorities, and obviously it has had an impact on them in all spheres of life and there is no doubt that some of the effects have trickled into cricket as well.

A country where minorities are gunned down and butchered frequently with their voices suppressed are not going to produce high-achievers at the same rate as they would have in a country where they are given equal rights and opportunities.

If Pakistan was a country where minorities were not discriminated against, we would have produced more Christian, Hindu, Sikh and Ahmadi etc. cricketers. However, in spite of the limitations and the constraints that they have been wrongfully subjected to, the few talented players who have managed to overcome these barriers have been given opportunities on merit and have not been discriminated against.

Obviously, the two standout example are Yousuf and Kaneria. In addition, quite a few other non-Muslim players have had international caps as well, but most of them were not good enough to have long careers.

There are still some non-Muslim domestic players in the country, but obviously since they are in the minority, the numbers are not great. Also, I think it is a bit of a stretch to assert that there are some minority cricketers in the country who would walk into English Counties. If they were that good, they would have made their way to the top like Yousaf and Kaneria.

What we can conclude from all of this is that there is no doubt that we would have produced more minority cricketers had as treated minorities better, but in spite of the discrimination and the segregation that they are subjected to, the very talented ones have still found a way to rise to the top.

Lol.

Poor and ordinary Pakistani have been discriminated by ruling class.

But cricket or any sports for that matter is one institution in Pakistan, where if you’re talented you’ll make it. There are only few players in current team who are from affluent middle class back ground rest had the similar issue regardless of their religious background . But as usual you had to turn this into something that it wasn’t to get attention

 

[ChuckLee]

Pakistan is amongst the worst countries in the world when it comes to treatment and rights of minorities, and obviously it has had an impact on them in all spheres of life and there is no doubt that some of the effects have trickled into cricket as well.

A country where minorities are gunned down and butchered frequently with their voices suppressed are not going to produce high-achievers at the same rate as they would have in a country where they are given equal rights and opportunities.

If Pakistan was a country where minorities were not discriminated against, we would have produced more Christian, Hindu, Sikh and Ahmadi etc. cricketers. However, in spite of the limitations and the constraints that they have been wrongfully subjected to, the few talented players who have managed to overcome these barriers have been given opportunities on merit and have not been discriminated against.

Obviously, the two standout example are Yousuf and Kaneria. In addition, quite a few other non-Muslim players have had international caps as well, but most of them were not good enough to have long careers.

There are still some non-Muslim domestic players in the country, but obviously since they are in the minority, the numbers are not great. Also, I think it is a bit of a stretch to assert that there are some minority cricketers in the country who would walk into English Counties. If they were that good, they would have made their way to the top like Yousaf and Kaneria.

What we can conclude from all of this is that there is no doubt that we would have produced more minority cricketers had as treated minorities better, but in spite of the discrimination and the segregation that they are subjected to, the very talented ones have still found a way to rise to the top.

Finally a sane voice and one who looks at both sides of the coin. I agree some have made it though but if we took away the barriers you listed more would come through the ranks.

 

[ChuckLee]

Lol.

Poor and ordinary Pakistani have been discriminated by ruling class.

But cricket or any sports for that matter is one institution in Pakistan, where if you’re talented you’ll make it. There are only few players in current team who are from affluent middle class back ground rest had the similar issue regardless of their religious background . But as usual you had to turn this into something that it wasn’t to get attention

Once again you didn’t address any of the points made and just came to your own conclusion.

 

[ManFan]

Minorities are discriminated against in Pakistan but it’s not a case of only sect-discrimination in the cricketing world.

My own brother-in-law used to be a decent fast-bowler in his youth but now reminisces of how people with less ability were able to go higher over time due to connections.

So while there is some truth in minority discrimination, it’s not on a grand scale such as the economic discrimination.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Can the OP name a single cricketer who has been sidelined in Pakistan because he isn’t a Muslim ?

 

[slipcatch]

Once again you didn’t address any of the points made and just came to your own conclusion.

Your question had been answered multiple times by different individuals, you want this to go in circle, find someone else to entertain you or find another hobby.

 

[Major]

Op isnt wrong.


Look you dont have to be talented to make it in pakistan cricket.

You need to do lots of socializing in the cricket circle. Once you socialize with the right people in pakistan cricket you will get invited to small club tournamnets, club matches and your reputation grows in the city. Once your reputation grows then you are on the radar of the regional selectors.
Basically this runs on how well you have socialized with the people around.

Now if we talk about minorities. Pakistani muslims dont socialize with them. Simple as that. All the time they are sprouting hateful comments against them and feeling proud of believing in the true god.
Not eating ir drinking from the same bowl.

Thus, the minorities are forced to disassociate themselves from muslims.


People who are giving examples of the few cricketers looool. Most of them played before 80s. Dont think situation was that bad.

Kaneiria had a family member, Dalpat already playing, thus he has abit of influence in the local cricketing circles.

In recent times, only Yousuf Youhana has worked hard to reach at international level, who then later on became Mohammad Yousuf.

So basically in the last 18 years only 1 minority(with no influence) has made it in the system.

 

[zeusathon]

Forget non-muslims. It took us ages even to appoint a muslim non-punjabi captain. We all know how Fawad was sidelined.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Can the OP name a single cricketer who has been sidelined in Pakistan because he isn’t a Muslim ?

Probably not. Pretty sure if there was an outstanding talent out there who was being ignored we would have heard something about him by now.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Probably not. Pretty sure if there was an outstanding talent out there who was being ignored we would have heard something about him by now.

a non muslim has to be outstanding talent to be in the team, but a muslim can be mediocre player and walk into the Pakistani team. No wonder the resident apologists are so hurt.

 

[MenInG]

a non muslim has to be outstanding talent to be in the team, but a muslim can be mediocre player and walk into the Pakistani team. No wonder the resident apologists are so hurt.

Teams dont differentiate (in Pakistan atleast) as they are really interested in winning tournaments.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

a non muslim has to be outstanding talent to be in the team, but a muslim can be mediocre player and walk into the Pakistani team. No wonder the resident apologists are so hurt.

Plenty of mediocre players walk into the Pakistan team, usually due to regional politics or nepotism if you believe those in the know in the cricket forum. I haven't heard much about religious exclusion mainly because there doesn't seem to be many minority players around these days. But you are right, there may well be some mediocre ones who aren't getting selected, they should definitely be considered equally with mediocre Muslim players for Pakistan selection.