Pakistan Desperately Needs a Proper 3rd Seamer in Tests

[Rana]

The title says it all.

We have one reliable bowler for all conditions (Shaheen Shah)

We have a decent bowler in Hassan Ali, who may not be suited for certain venues due to a lack of pace. He also is injury prone.

Our third seamer currently is Faheem Ashraf, and he isn’t too bad in order to give the other pacers some rest, but this isn’t a 3rd wicket taking option. Look at the standard of the 3 seamers that play for Australia, India, England, New Zealand. None of them have a 3rd seamer of the same standard as Faheem Ashraf! The 3rd seamer must be a bowler who can bowl the new ball and is a 145k+ bowler.

In regards to Mohammad Abbas, he is excellent to have in the squad but at most should only replace Hassan Ali if injured.

Pakistan are well into their WTC campaign but the lack of a 3rd seamer will haunt them. They may have to employ only 1 spinner and use Fawad/Babar to provide extra overs as spinners.

Candidates:

1. Naseem Shah

-good age
-good pace
-valuable overseas experience in Australia, England and New Zealand
+He will be better now that Shaheen and Hassan seem to be potent wicket takers, unlike Abbas who wasn’t penetrating enough as the main strike bowler during Naseem’s initial stint.

2. Shahnawaz Dahani

-Decent age
-Good height
-Good pace
-Good FC season last year

Probably the man who will be preferred due to the novelty factor. His height and pace, plus control to some extent is going to be crucial.

3. Sameen Gul

-Good age
-Good Pace
-Stellar FC record

Averages 21 with 113 wickets. He has some exposure to decent international quality batsman at PSL.

4. Harris Rauf

-Excellent Pace
-Improving FC record
-Great enthusiasm

He’s probably the only one out of the 4 bowlers who I am not too sure about considering he really may not be too interested in playing Test cricket if things do not go for him or Pakistan the way we would liked. Possibly a boundary leaking option but also a wicket taker if he learns how to bowl long spells with consistency.

 

[gazza619]

If Pakistan can find a quality spinner who is a good number 7/8 batter, then we can afford the luxury of playing a proper fast bowler as our third seamer.

 

[street cricketer]

Our 3rd seamer is probably Mohammad Siraj right now, Bumrah and Shami being our two new ball bowlers.

Not sure why you're saying Faheem is your 3rd seamer. I'm pretty sure Pak will pick a genuine fast bowler as the 3rd seamer for SENA tours. It's just in home matches, you guys play Faheem as the 3rd seamer. We don't play a 3rd seamer for matches in the subcontinent, we go with 2 pacers plus 3 spinners.

 

[gazza619]

Can Sajid Khan bat as good as Ashwin? Probably not, and thats where our problem is.

 

[Rana]

Can Sajid Khan bat as good as Ashwin? Probably not, and thats where our problem is.

Sajid has a list A hundred. That’s very interesting if you think about it.

 

[Saj]

I still have high hopes for Naseem Shah.

Yes there are areas of his bowling that he needs to work on but he is showing good signs and improving.

Eventually I feel he could become that 3rd seamer.

 

[Rana]

Our 3rd seamer is probably Mohammad Siraj right now, Bumrah and Shami being our two new ball bowlers.

Not sure why you're saying Faheem is your 3rd seamer. I'm pretty sure Pak will pick a genuine fast bowler as the 3rd seamer for SENA tours. It's just in home matches, you guys play Faheem as the 3rd seamer. We don't play a 3rd seamer for matches in the subcontinent, we go with 2 pacers plus 3 spinners.

Who is Pakistan’s 3rd seamer for overseas tours? Surely not Mohammad Abbas, he is finished.

 

[moghul]

Good thread, important topic .

Forget about 3rd seamer , I'm not convinced Hasan Ali is our long term solution for the 2nd seamer role . His lack of height and pace, which is decreasing every year ( pace, not height ) will not let him perform well against decent sides and in SENA.

Waseem Ashraf is totally useless as a bowler , anywhere , he should not be in team .

Harris Rauf: Until recently, I was not convinced he will be good prospect and a good all form bowler, but now he has proved me wrong. All he needs some more FC games and he will a good 2nd seamer , ahead of Hasan Ali, particularly in SENA and against better teams, anywhere.

Naseem : very young , but already with now decent experience of FC and some international cricket. Already has been dropped and came back stronger , which is good sign. He is ready to be tried again in tests .

Dahani: promising , but has not convinced me yet, he does not look physically strong enough to last too long and perform in tests .


Sameen Gul: Not very exciting prospect but we don;t have any. Sameen deserves to be tried in tests now. He has worked very well and persistently over the years in FC cricket. Has good action , strong body and decent height.

Akif Javed : Looks to be another good prospect but needs more FC cricket under his belt. Good action, good height and left armers always have more variety than right armers.

Pakistan should not play a so called all rounder at #6, unless he is a genuine all rounder, not like Faheem Ashraf. If they don;t have any , play a specialist batsman or a bowler according to the situation . Nawaz would have much better instead of Faheem in BD.

 

[Da_Future_Knick]

Arshad Iqbal deserves a shot as well

 

[Barragan]

Pak will go with 3 fast bowlers in sena countries.

Faheem is basically allowing Pak to play 2 proper spinners, otherwise they would need to select a spinner who can bat and the attack would still contain 2 genuine fast bowlers anyway.

Also, Faheem is a good bowler in those sena conditions.

 

[Bewal Express]

Out of the guys mentioned, Haris Rauf has the most wicket taking potential because he moves the ball away from the right handers at pace. Dahani has potential but atm he looks a better prospect against left handers than right handers. Sameen Gul is overweight for a fast bowler and needs to get fitter. A guy that I thought had real potential was Mohammed Umar from Sindh but he has disappeared from the radar

 

[topspin]

Sameen Gul is the best solution.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Arshad Iqbal and Mohammad Ilyas are contenders as well.
mohammad Ilyas has actually played more FC cricket than others I think.

 

[nextover666666]

Arshad Iqbal deserves a shot as well

YES and should also be considered in ODI and t20 squad as well.

 

[shah_1]

Irfanuallah, Arshad Iqbal, Dhaani and Haris Rauf are the best prospect

 

[shah_1]

Khuram Shehzad preformed extremely well against Sri Lanka A

 

[Rana]

Arshad Iqbal and Mohammad Ilyas are contenders as well.
mohammad Ilyas has actually played more FC cricket than others I think.

Mohammad Ilyas lacks pace and height. Arshad Iqbal can be thought about

 

[krazystrong]

Must be Dahani. He has all the ingredients to be a Pakistani great. Height/high arm action, speed (145kph), Perfect seam position, swing.

 

[Da_Future_Knick]

Abdullah
Abid
Saud
Babar
Fawad
Rizwan
Faheem
Hasan
Arshad
Shaheen
Dhani

In SENA, this would be a good 11 for Pakistan.

 

[moghul]

Mohammad Ilyas is too short for international cricket.

Arshad Iqbal is a good prospect also, young , tall and well built. Still very raw but will be ready in near future.

 

[Rana]

Abdullah
Abid
Saud
Babar
Fawad
Rizwan
Faheem
Hasan
Arshad
Shaheen
Dhani

In SENA, this would be a good 11 for Pakistan.

There is no spinner for Day 5

 

[Rana]

Arshad Iqbal is still quite raw at FC level but he isn’t too bad at the moment. One more season and he would be better suited.

At the moment, there seems to be no reason to not Sameen Gul. He is ready to go!

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Based on the last two seasons of the QEA trophy which I have watched pretty extensively, these are the people who should get a look in IMHO

For English and NZ conditions

Shaheen, Sohail Khan/Mir Hamza, Naseem, Faheem, & Shadab

For Australian & South African conditions

Shaheen, Dahani, Rauf, Faheem, & Shadab

For home tests

Shaheen, Hasan, Faheem, Nawaz, & Shadab


Akif Javed is injury-prone and inconsistent so far. Irfanullah is tall but lacks pace and may not be able to replicate his bowling at the international level. Arshad Iqbal & Muhammad Hasnain cannot put the ball at the same place for two consecutive deliveries. Sameen brings it only in one direction hence is very predictable. Ilyas is good but his lack of height is a big disadvantage. Waseem Jr. is too raw but has potential. Khurram Shehzad is good but lacks a bit of pace. Even Dahani does not have the game plan to threaten both the edges of the batters.

Pak Shaheens attack against Sri Lanka was Irfanullah, Naseem, and Khurram, and based on the bowlers that are available, these are really good options.

We really don't have a complete bowler in our domestic setup, everyone mentioned above has some limitations and shortcomings. Most of them also happen to have zero skill with the bat which is a huge issue now.

Other bowling options like Imran Randhawa, Amir Yamin, Hussain Talat, etc. are pretty average and do not seem to have the potential to trouble international level batters. Gohar Faiz, Athar, Taj Wali, Muhammad Umar, etc. haven't been able to nail down their domestic places yet.

I honestly feel that Abbas should take up the bowling coach role very soon; he has a very good cricketing mind and good skills that need to be transferred to the younger generation. There are very few bowlers in our system who are as skilled as him and it'd be really good to get him involved. We already have lost Asif and if we lose him as well that would be a total travesty.

 

[PakLFC]

What happened to the likes of Shinwari, Junaid Khan, Mo Wasim and Imran Khan jnr?. We never hear of so many again after they do well in the few matches they play.

 

[ElRaja]

not a third seamer, need a second seamer. hassan is a better third bowler. he bowls better with the older ball when he can reverse it.

not sure who else there is to take the new ball atm tho, no one has stood out in fc apart from irfanullah shah, but he doesnt look particularly athletic.

 

[Amjid Javed]

The current WTC has 4 series left for pakistan, 3 at home and 1 in Sri lanka. All 4 in Asian conditions. its clearly obvious pakistan want to play 5 bowlers in these conditions, which pretty much means Faheem keeps being selected purely based on fact hes decent bat at 7 and can turn his arm over.

reality is bowling is impotent and inept, but selecting a different 3rd seamer means pakistan end up with a long tail and with our weak batting its asking fir trouble.

so if pakistan want to play 2 spinners maybe its then got to be a nawaz/imad or shadab as they could do a job at 7, but how effective are they as a red ball spinner?

Then pakistan could look to pick a better 3rd seamer which they clearly need. Other option is pakistan pick 3 seamers 1 spinner and rely on 5th bowling option from their batsmen.

it is something which needs to be sorted for Aussie series.

 

[Cricketfan no 1]

can anyone tell what happened to Usman Shinwari? is he injured? or not good enough anymore?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Shaheen has decent pace. Nobody says we have to have a 3rd seamer that bowls 145+. Abbas is perfectly fine as the third seamer until Naseem finds his feet in test cricket. Which I am certain he will after a period of time.

Dahani is the only other bowler I can see being successful in test cricket. But such a thing a probably quite far down the line.

 

[Savak]

I still have high hopes for Naseem Shah.

Yes there are areas of his bowling that he needs to work on but he is showing good signs and improving.

Eventually I feel he could become that 3rd seamer.

Naseem needs to be used like England is using Mark Wood i.e. short spells, short sharp bursts where he is told to give it his all in the 3-4 overs spells. Pakistan needs to make the distinction b/w the work horse seamers and the super quick pacers whose job is to bowl flat out in short sharp bursts

 

[Savak]

can anyone tell what happened to Usman Shinwari? is he injured? or not good enough anymore?

He has given up test cricket to prolong his ODI and T-20 career

 

[PakEngFan]

Arshad Iqbal and Mohammad Ilyas are contenders as well.
mohammad Ilyas has actually played more FC cricket than others I think.

Mohammed Ilyas is probably the worst bowler in FC. Too short, not quick enough, doesn’t do anything with the ball. Plus a no 10 on top.

 

[Cricketfan no 1]

He has given up test cricket to prolong his ODI and T-20 career

is he on the radars of selectors? for ODI or t20i?

 

[DRsohail]

Irfanut Shah??

 

[Markhor]

The current WTC has 4 series left for pakistan, 3 at home and 1 in Sri lanka. All 4 in Asian conditions.

In that case, there's no desperation for a third seamer. However we do need competition for Shaheen and Hasan, and definitely need a more penetrative third seamer than Faheem in SENA.

As mentioned every possible name has limitations.

Shahnawaz Dhani is the most exciting prospect. Despite his PSL performances, hitting a length in red ball cricket is actually his strength ! He just needs to develop an outswinger or one that straightens to a RHB. More FC cricket will help improve his fitness which'll help sustain his pace.

Arshad Iqbal is not express but his height makes him more useful in places like AUS and SAF than skiddy pacers like Hasan or Musa. His FC numbers may not look impressive - but slow, low Pakistani FC pitches just doesn't encourage his style of bowling. Does needs to get fitter, but was wrongly dropped from the T20 squad by Mohammad Wasim.

Sameen Gul - I first saw Sameen bowl live last season in the QEA Trophy and wasn't impressed. He looked 75mph and not the fittest either.

Akif Javed - Promising. Tall and a leftie who can swing the ball into RHBs, but way too early for him especially coming back from injury. Needs to improve his control. A white ball and Shaheens team candidate for now.

Naseem Shah - The problem with Naseem is last time he played Test cricket, he was running in and bowling without a clear role or plan. Is he someone that pitches it up and swings the ball or an enforcer relying on raw pace and bounce ? I feel he's another FC season away during which he can learn how to bowl to a field and work a batsman over.

Haris Rauf - The criticism of Rauf going into the T20 World Cup was he's too expensive and can't land six balls in the same area. That issue would only be amplified in Test cricket where he'd be expected to bowl 15-20 overs an innings. Fitness is also an issue, leave him to marinate in FC cricket for now.

 

[Markhor]

Irfanut Shah??

Irfanullah Shah reminds me a bit of Shabbir Ahmed. Honestly when I first saw him last year I thought his action looked slightly iffy. Not quick but gets late swing, and his height's a bonus.

 

[moghul]

Based on the last two seasons of the QEA trophy which I have watched pretty extensively, these are the people who should get a look in IMHO

For English and NZ conditions

Shaheen, Sohail Khan/Mir Hamza, Naseem, Faheem, & Shadab

For Australian & South African conditions

Shaheen, Dahani, Rauf, Faheem, & Shadab

For home tests

Shaheen, Hasan, Faheem, Nawaz, & Shadab


Akif Javed is injury-prone and inconsistent so far. Irfanullah is tall but lacks pace and may not be able to replicate his bowling at the international level. Arshad Iqbal & Muhammad Hasnain cannot put the ball at the same place for two consecutive deliveries. Sameen brings it only in one direction hence is very predictable. Ilyas is good but his lack of height is a big disadvantage. Waseem Jr. is too raw but has potential. Khurram Shehzad is good but lacks a bit of pace. Even Dahani does not have the game plan to threaten both the edges of the batters.

Pak Shaheens attack against Sri Lanka was Irfanullah, Naseem, and Khurram, and based on the bowlers that are available, these are really good options.

We really don't have a complete bowler in our domestic setup, everyone mentioned above has some limitations and shortcomings. Most of them also happen to have zero skill with the bat which is a huge issue now.

Other bowling options like Imran Randhawa, Amir Yamin, Hussain Talat, etc. are pretty average and do not seem to have the potential to trouble international level batters. Gohar Faiz, Athar, Taj Wali, Muhammad Umar, etc. haven't been able to nail down their domestic places yet.

I honestly feel that Abbas should take up the bowling coach role very soon; he has a very good cricketing mind and good skills that need to be transferred to the younger generation. There are very few bowlers in our system who are as skilled as him and it'd be really good to get him involved. We already have lost Asif and if we lose him as well that would be a total travesty.

NIce review, but what exactly you saw in Faheem which no one else have seen in last 4-5 years of international cricket. Once in a while he scores some runs but only 22 wickets in 13 test and not getting any better, You expect more from a 3 rd seamer.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

NIce review, but what exactly you saw in Faheem which no one else have seen in last 4-5 years of international cricket. Once in a while he scores some runs but only 22 wickets in 13 test and not getting any better, You expect more from a 3 rd seamer.

He is only a third seamer in Asia. Without Faheem, Pakistan would play 2 quicks and 2 spinners as we did for a very long time in the UAE. He is brought in to pick up some of the slack with the ball, rotate other bowlers and hopefully make some runs.

Outside of Asia he is the 4th bowler who can bat a bit. I think he is fulfilling his role reasonably well at the moment.

 

[shaaik]

can anyone tell what happened to Usman Shinwari? is he injured? or not good enough anymore?

He’s retired from Red ball cricket due to his dodgy knees ..

 

[shamaan]

We already have a 3rd seemer we need an opening bowler and I would pick either sameen gull or Irfanullah

 

[Kroll]

They do, but there isn't one. All the ones mentioned above aren't good enough.

 

[Junaids]

I view the balance a bit differently:

IN ASIA
First quick: Shaheen Shah Afridi (11)
Second quick: Hasan Ali (9)
Third quick: Faheem Ashraf (8)
First spinner: Sajid Khan (10)
Support spinner: Shadab Khan (7)

IN SENA:
First quick: Shaheen Shah Afridi (11)
Second quick: Sameen Gul or Naseem Shah (10)
Third quick: Hasan Ali (9)
Fourth quick: Faheem Ashraf (8)
Support spinner: Shadab Khan (7)

 

[Junaids]

So my Test team looks like this:

1. Abdullah Shafique
2. Usman Salahuddin
3. Mohammad Rizwan (c)
4. Babar Azam
5. Saud Shakeel
6. Rohail Nazir (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Hasan Ali
10. Sameen Gul (SENA) / Sajid Khan (ASIA)
11. Shaheen Shah Afridi

The ages really hit the sweet spot - this team could stick together for 3 World Test Championship cycles!

 

[moghul]

In SENA I would go for 3 seamers and one spinner and would play a proper batsman at #6 , no use of playing a useless "seamer" like Faheem. He has scored some runs in couple of tests but not useful enough .

SENA:
Afridi
Rauf
Hasan ( Naseem )
Spinner ( one out of Sajid and Gohar , or someone else )

In Asia
Afridi
Hasan
Sajid
Zahid or Zafar
spinning all rounder , Shadab or Nawaz

 

[ChTab]

Arshad Iqbal and Mohammad Ilyas are contenders as well.
mohammad Ilyas has actually played more FC cricket than others I think.

Arshad Iqbal sure but Ilyas is even shorter than Hassan Ali & way less skillful. I don't think Ilyas will ever play test cricket for Pakistan.

 

[ChTab]

So my Test team looks like this:

1. Abdullah Shafique
2. Usman Salahuddin
3. Mohammad Rizwan (c)
4. Babar Azam
5. Saud Shakeel
6. Rohail Nazir (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Hasan Ali
10. Sameen Gul (SENA) / Sajid Khan (ASIA)
11. Shaheen Shah Afridi

The ages really hit the sweet spot - this team could stick together for 3 World Test Championship cycles!

1.Usman if I'm not wrong only recently started opening im domestic & you can't put him in the side.
2. Rizwan most likely will struggle vs new ball & at 1 down he will be facing new ball more often than not.
3. Rohail hasn't performed well in domestic for him to be in the team.
4. Babar's captaincy is improving day by day plus everyone in the team really respect him.

My test XI

1. Imam(Because we don't have many good options atm)
2. Abdullah
3. Saud
4. Babar (c)
5. Kamran Ghulam
6. Rizwan (wk)
7. Shahdab
8. Faheem
9. Hassan
10. Shaheen
11. Naseem/Sameen/Haris & Sajid in Asia

 

[Hyder]

Good thread, important topic .

Forget about 3rd seamer , I'm not convinced Hasan Ali is our long term solution for the 2nd seamer role . His lack of height and pace, which is decreasing every year ( pace, not height ) will not let him perform well against decent sides and in SENA.

Waseem Ashraf is totally useless as a bowler , anywhere , he should not be in team .

Harris Rauf: Until recently, I was not convinced he will be good prospect and a good all form bowler, but now he has proved me wrong. All he needs some more FC games and he will a good 2nd seamer , ahead of Hasan Ali, particularly in SENA and against better teams, anywhere.

Naseem : very young , but already with now decent experience of FC and some international cricket. Already has been dropped and came back stronger , which is good sign. He is ready to be tried again in tests .

Dahani: promising , but has not convinced me yet, he does not look physically strong enough to last too long and perform in tests .


Sameen Gul: Not very exciting prospect but we don;t have any. Sameen deserves to be tried in tests now. He has worked very well and persistently over the years in FC cricket. Has good action , strong body and decent height.

Akif Javed : Looks to be another good prospect but needs more FC cricket under his belt. Good action, good height and left armers always have more variety than right armers.

Pakistan should not play a so called all rounder at #6, unless he is a genuine all rounder, not like Faheem Ashraf. If they don;t have any , play a specialist batsman or a bowler according to the situation . Nawaz would have much better instead of Faheem in BD.

Hasan as of now is the best test bowler we have and you are not so convinced with him
That lad has never stepped a foot wrong in tests during his brief career and the only place he ll find difficult to bowl in is austrailia ig

 

[AliMurtaza]

Hassan is better suited for third pace bowler spot as he is not the best exponent of new ball. However, till end of 2022, we are majorly playing at home so he will be sufficient as the second seamer.

For the third pace bowler spot, Naseem Shah is the leading candidate. He seems to have improved and showed this during Sri Lanka A tour as well.

After Naseem Shah, the following are candidates for fourth and fifth pace bowler spots during overseas tours. This is based on A team selection for Sri Lanka tour and previous test selections.

1) Haris Rauf
2) Dahani
3) Khurram Shehzad
4) Irfanullah Shah
5) Arshad Iqbal

I don't believe Sameen Gul and M Ilyas are in selector's plans. Musa and Husnain need more time to improve, although both may never be good enough for tests.

Out of the 5 above, I feel Haris Rauf has the best possible chance. He also took 9-10 wickets during the only quaid trophy match he played this season. Then it will be either Khurram Shehzad or Irfanullah Shah. This is based on the assumption that Abbas will will continue to struggle with his pace. Further, based on what I have seen of Dahani, he needs at least 1-2 more seasons of first class.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

NIce review, but what exactly you saw in Faheem which no one else have seen in last 4-5 years of international cricket. Once in a while he scores some runs but only 22 wickets in 13 test and not getting any better, You expect more from a 3 rd seamer.

These are the reasons why he makes it to our test team on merit (even though I personally don't really like him that much)

1. Our current crop of bowlers is being raised on white-ball cricket and a four-bowler attack like what Australia has is almost impossible for us to have.

2. Our bowlers also have very little ability with the bat, & with a fragile top order, we often find ourselves in a position where we are 96-5 and if we pick four bowlers, there's a massive chance that we'd be rolled out for 140.

3. He really has no replacement in the circuit as of now. I liked Yamin and still think he may have a small role in white-ball cricket but he's ordinary in red-ball cricket. Imran Randhawa is almost identical to Yamin, and Hussain Talat cannot be relied upon as a third or fourth seamer. Waseem Jr. and Abbas Afridi are the only two realistic options but they are very raw at the moment and won't be ready for at least a couple of years.

We can drop him from our home tests if we play Kamran Ghulam and Saud Shakeel in the team and make them bowl the spin overs and play three out and out pacers with only one attacking spinner but then it's the entire team combination that needs to be reworked (which is a bit too much to ask from the selectors and Babar)

I used to criticize selectors a lot before but after seeing our domestic cricket I've realized that most players that make it, have actually a good case to be selected except a couple of players but they too are fifty-fifty calls.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Arshad Iqbal sure but Ilyas is even shorter than Hassan Ali & way less skillful. I don't think Ilyas will ever play test cricket for Pakistan.

Muhammad Ilyas is extremely skilled as a fast bowler, probably top-3 in terms of pure cricketing skill in Pakistan right now. His shortcoming is something that he cannot control so he's extremely unfortunate with that.

He's one of the few who can move the ball both ways, has a decent short ball and also has the ability to work batters over. If he was around 180 cm, he'd be my second pick behind Shaheen for Pakistan test team.

 

[Markhor]

We already have a 3rd seemer we need an opening bowler and I would pick either sameen gull or Irfanullah

As I mentioned above, I also was excited about Sameen given his height and numbers but when I saw him bowl live for the first time he looked to be around 75mph.

Top international batsmen are not going to be troubled. If he improves his pace and fitness though he's definitely an option.

 

[wrongun]

The title says it all.

We have one reliable bowler for all conditions (Shaheen Shah)

We have a decent bowler in Hassan Ali, who may not be suited for certain venues due to a lack of pace. He also is injury prone.

Our third seamer currently is Faheem Ashraf, and he isn’t too bad in order to give the other pacers some rest, but this isn’t a 3rd wicket taking option. Look at the standard of the 3 seamers that play for Australia, India, England, New Zealand. None of them have a 3rd seamer of the same standard as Faheem Ashraf! The 3rd seamer must be a bowler who can bowl the new ball and is a 145k+ bowler.

In regards to Mohammad Abbas, he is excellent to have in the squad but at most should only replace Hassan Ali if injured.

Pakistan are well into their WTC campaign but the lack of a 3rd seamer will haunt them. They may have to employ only 1 spinner and use Fawad/Babar to provide extra overs as spinners.

Candidates:

1. Naseem Shah

-good age
-good pace
-valuable overseas experience in Australia, England and New Zealand
+He will be better now that Shaheen and Hassan seem to be potent wicket takers, unlike Abbas who wasn’t penetrating enough as the main strike bowler during Naseem’s initial stint.

2. Shahnawaz Dahani

-Decent age
-Good height
-Good pace
-Good FC season last year

Probably the man who will be preferred due to the novelty factor. His height and pace, plus control to some extent is going to be crucial.

3. Sameen Gul

-Good age
-Good Pace
-Stellar FC record

Averages 21 with 113 wickets. He has some exposure to decent international quality batsman at PSL.

4. Harris Rauf

-Excellent Pace
-Improving FC record
-Great enthusiasm

He’s probably the only one out of the 4 bowlers who I am not too sure about considering he really may not be too interested in playing Test cricket if things do not go for him or Pakistan the way we would liked. Possibly a boundary leaking option but also a wicket taker if he learns how to bowl long spells with consistency.

Height is handy in SENA and doesn't hurt at all either on some asian decks when they break up on day 4/5 & the heights gets more extreme bounce variation.

I'd be grooming Dahani, for that reason and also looking to get Rauf more FC experience and around the longer formats. I don't think we've seen all the best of Rauf yet and he may be one of those guys who can just keep improving and lifting his ceiling.

 

[street cricketer]

Feels strange for us to have a set top 3 quicks with very good reserve bowlers while Pakistan is struggling to find its 3rd pacer, seems like a role reversal from the 80s and 90s

But I like it

 

[MesonK]

Lol at Pakistani fans trying to replace Abbas with 22-23 like average with Naseem Shah and then we ask why do struggle ?

 

[MesonK]

Feels strange for us to have a set top 3 quicks with very good reserve bowlers while Pakistan is struggling to find its 3rd pacer, seems like a role reversal from the 80s and 90s

But I like it

Your third seamer averages 27 .. Ours average 23

 

[Rana]

Lol at Pakistani fans trying to replace Abbas with 22-23 like average with Naseem Shah and then we ask why do struggle ?

What has been Abbas’s average since the England 2020 tour?

 

[Shafi]

Great thread bro!!!! Fahim is useless player. This guy is nothing bowler and poor batsman. We should use 4 proper bowler (3 fast+1 spin or 2 fast+2 spin). both Babar and Fawad can do at least 10 overs together for break. So we need 6 proper batsmen, 1 keeper and 4 bowlers.

 

[street cricketer]

Your third seamer averages 27 .. Ours average 23

Good for you guys. We'll manage with 27 averaging Siraj and settle for him singlehandedly winning us tests in Australia and England while you lucky guys can have the luxury of the 23 averaging 120k speed demon intimidating the batsmen in SENA conditions with his pace and bounce

 

[Artaxerxes]

Arshad,Dahani,Naseem,Sameen and Rauf will be good in SENA.Zafar Gohar can bat and is a good spin bowling option.Faheem is an ordinary bowler.Pakistan needs three proper pace bowlers and one good spinner.Saud and Babar can bowl 5-10 overs if needed.If Irfanullah can increase his pace he will also be good.

 

[JibranAnsari]

I think Dahani should be groomed , none of the other mentioned are good enough.

Sameen gul has always looked very flat , naseem shah and haris rauf can be good LOI bowlers but not test cricket material.
Akif javed and arshad iqbal still are very very raw.

 

[Mamoon]

Naseem Shah is the worst fast bowler in history.

He averages 70+ in Australia, England and New Zealand in addition to recording the most expensive figures ever for a fast bowler.

Please take him to South Africa next so that he can complete the quartet and increase the gap between him and the second worst fast bowler in history.

 

[Shafi]

Naseem Shah is the worst fast bowler in history.

He averages 70+ in Australia, England and New Zealand in addition to recording the most expensive figures ever for a fast bowler.

Please take him to South Africa next so that he can complete the quartet and increase the gap between him and the second worst fast bowler in history.

You discarding him after seeing him playing few matches where few catches dropped in his bowling. Even Shoaib Akhter didn't look that good in his first match.

 

[Cric1234]

Naseem Shah is the worst fast bowler in history.

He averages 70+ in Australia, England and New Zealand in addition to recording the most expensive figures ever for a fast bowler.

Please take him to South Africa next so that he can complete the quartet and increase the gap between him and the second worst fast bowler in history.

He is young and was thrown in the deep end by you guessed it Misbah and Waqar he has ability to make a comeback needs to improve his control by being economical batsmen will make more mistakes.

If he doesn’t improve his economy better teams wont be troubled much by his bowling.

 

[Mamoon]

He is young and was thrown in the deep end by you guessed it Misbah and Waqar he has ability to make a comeback needs to improve his control by being economical batsmen will make more mistakes.

If he doesn’t improve his economy better teams wont be troubled much by his bowling.

Misbah preferred him to the likes of Imran Khan Jr. and Sohail Khan. They were part of the squad but Misbah picked Naseem in the playing XI.

This is what the fans wanted. Had Misbah given preference to those old bowlers, the same fans who are blaming Misbah for throwing Naseem into the deep end would then be criticizing him for not giving Naseem a chance and showing bias towards older players.

After all, this has been the number one criticism directed towards Misbah throughout his career, i.e. he never gives youth a chance.

Well he did give Naseem plenty of chances and played him on three major overseas tours and he proved to be a disaster.

The problem is not how Misbah treated him. The problem is that Naseem is extremely overhyped and he himself believed in the hype and gave big statements which he couldn’t back up with his bowling.

A lot of the excessive hype has to do with PCB faking his age which generated a lot of unnecessary hype. He was 19-20 at a time when PCB was advertising him as a 16 year old.

 

[Cric1234]

Misbah preferred him to the likes of Imran Khan Jr. and Sohail Khan. They were part of the squad but Misbah picked Naseem in the playing XI.

This is what the fans wanted. Had Misbah given preference to those old bowlers, the same fans who are blaming Misbah for throwing Naseem into the deep end would then be criticizing him for not giving Naseem a chance and showing bias towards older players.

After all, this has been the number one criticism directed towards Misbah throughout his career, i.e. he never gives youth a chance.

Well he did give Naseem plenty of chances and played him on three major overseas tours and he proved to be a disaster.

The problem is not how Misbah treated him. The problem is that Naseem is extremely overhyped and he himself believed in the hype and gave big statements which he couldn’t back up with his bowling.

A lot of the excessive hype has to do with PCB faking his age which generated a lot of unnecessary hype. He was 19-20 at a time when PCB was advertising him as a 16 year old.

Well chances are a young bowler who’s a teenager isn’t experienced enough to win matches against the best bad coaching and decision making right there expecting as such.

Not about not giving youth a chance you bring them along steadily while the more experienced players do the match winning of which there’s been very little of in SENA.

 

[Third Man]

Pak will go with 3 fast bowlers in sena countries.

Faheem is basically allowing Pak to play 2 proper spinners, otherwise they would need to select a spinner who can bat and the attack would still contain 2 genuine fast bowlers anyway.

Also, Faheem is a good bowler in those sena conditions.

Or Pakistan can even go with 4 fast bowlers and play Nawaz as the all-rounder. We may not have 4 fast bowlers that are ready today, but the raw materials are there.

 

[moghul]

He is only a third seamer in Asia. Without Faheem, Pakistan would play 2 quicks and 2 spinners as we did for a very long time in the UAE. He is brought in to pick up some of the slack with the ball, rotate other bowlers and hopefully make some runs.

Outside of Asia he is the 4th bowler who can bat a bit. I think he is fulfilling his role reasonably well at the moment.

Every player has a ceiling, how much he can improve . Faheem after more than 4 years of cricket has not produced much, scored some runs in NZL after 4 years of failure . He is also short and has no pace. I'm sure if we invest on someone like Wasim jr for a year or so, will have better result.

 

[mastimasti]

The title says it all.

We have one reliable bowler for all conditions (Shaheen Shah)

We have a decent bowler in Hassan Ali, who may not be suited for certain venues due to a lack of pace. He also is injury prone.

Our third seamer currently is Faheem Ashraf, and he isn’t too bad in order to give the other pacers some rest, but this isn’t a 3rd wicket taking option. Look at the standard of the 3 seamers that play for Australia, India, England, New Zealand. None of them have a 3rd seamer of the same standard as Faheem Ashraf! The 3rd seamer must be a bowler who can bowl the new ball and is a 145k+ bowler.

In regards to Mohammad Abbas, he is excellent to have in the squad but at most should only replace Hassan Ali if injured.

Pakistan are well into their WTC campaign but the lack of a 3rd seamer will haunt them. They may have to employ only 1 spinner and use Fawad/Babar to provide extra overs as spinners.

Candidates:

1. Naseem Shah

-good age
-good pace
-valuable overseas experience in Australia, England and New Zealand
+He will be better now that Shaheen and Hassan seem to be potent wicket takers, unlike Abbas who wasn’t penetrating enough as the main strike bowler during Naseem’s initial stint.

2. Shahnawaz Dahani

-Decent age
-Good height
-Good pace
-Good FC season last year

Probably the man who will be preferred due to the novelty factor. His height and pace, plus control to some extent is going to be crucial.

3. Sameen Gul

-Good age
-Good Pace
-Stellar FC record

Averages 21 with 113 wickets. He has some exposure to decent international quality batsman at PSL.

4. Harris Rauf

-Excellent Pace
-Improving FC record
-Great enthusiasm

He’s probably the only one out of the 4 bowlers who I am not too sure about considering he really may not be too interested in playing Test cricket if things do not go for him or Pakistan the way we would liked. Possibly a boundary leaking option but also a wicket taker if he learns how to bowl long spells with consistency.

It HAS to be Abbas, him not being picked is ridiculous. I hope he is picked for home tours, where he actually bowls very well. He is a class act and way better and more experienced the names you liste (Rauf, really???).

Shaheen, Ali and Abbas makes sense.

 

[jnaveen1980]

All teams need 4 gun fast bowlers as one may have a bad day in which case 2 cannot share the entire load.

 

[Rana]

It HAS to be Abbas, him not being picked is ridiculous. I hope he is picked for home tours, where he actually bowls very well. He is a class act and way better and more experienced the names you liste (Rauf, really???).

Shaheen, Ali and Abbas makes sense.

Abbas is a GOAT standard upgrade to Faheem, but let’s be honest, Faheem is a class lower order batsman! Abbas offers nothing with the bat, and if he isn’t quick enough to trouble elite batsmen with the new or old ball, he is just a massive liability. I do think Abbas will be a handy option in Sri Lanka.

As I said, Abbas should only be used as a replacement for Hassan Ali who is still more versatile due to pace and reverse swing. Otherwise this would be the average speed of your bowling attack:

Shaheen 145k
Hassan 135k
Faheem 130k
Abbas 125k

Compare that to Australia

Starc 145k
Cummins 145k
Hazlewood 140k
Green 135k

You can’t have 3 pressure release trundlers on placid tracks!

 

[sam_ahm]

I think Naseem Shah will come through in future.

Are Usman Shinwari and Imran Khan no longer in the frame?

 

[MesonK]

Good for you guys. We'll manage with 27 averaging Siraj and settle for him singlehandedly winning us tests in Australia and England while you lucky guys can have the luxury of the 23 averaging 120k speed demon intimidating the batsmen in SENA conditions with his pace and bounce

You are allowed to feel excited for Ishant Sharma 2.0.

If the pace is that much important to Indians then be informed that we do have pacers who reach 153-155 kph in international tournaments, let alone anywhere else. People like Hasnain who reached 155-156 kph are failing to find feet in our bowling attack. I understand the Indian excitement over anything above 140 kph.

Abbass is just a different type who averages less than any Indian ever to have taken 100-25 test wickets.

 

[MesonK]

What has been Abbas’s average since the England 2020 tour?

What is Naseem Shahs average since his debut?

 

[Rana]

What is Naseem Shahs average since his debut?

Does Abbas have age on his side like Naseem does?

Does Abbas have pace to work with on his side like Naseem does?

We are not looking for a quick fix solution here. You have 2 bowlers who have done well this year, they can accommodate one more fast bowler now who can give them 5-10 years. Not 1 or 2 maximum like Abbas

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Every player has a ceiling, how much he can improve . Faheem after more than 4 years of cricket has not produced much, scored some runs in NZL after 4 years of failure . He is also short and has no pace. I'm sure if we invest on someone like Wasim jr for a year or so, will have better result.

He has done ok with the bat so far. Good enough to get a few more games imo.

 

[street cricketer]

You are allowed to feel excited for Ishant Sharma 2.0.

If the pace is that much important to Indians then be informed that we do have pacers who reach 153-155 kph in international tournaments, let alone anywhere else. People like Hasnain who reached 155-156 kph are failing to find feet in our bowling attack. I understand the Indian excitement over anything above 140 kph.

Abbass is just a different type who averages less than any Indian ever to have taken 100-25 test wickets.

Lool I'm not excited about pace. If pace is all that I valued, I'd want the likes of Varun Aaron and Navdeep Saini in my team, but they're quick spray guns. Hasnain is even worse because he is an inexperienced spraygun. Pace matters only till a certain threshold, but what matters is skill and the ability to put the ball in the right spot consistently 6 times an over. And Siraj ticks all of that. You can have all the pace in the world and bowl 150+, but if you don't have the skill to bowl 6 balls in a single spot, you're not test standard and example is Hasnain and Aaron. Similarly you can have all the skill and accuracy to bowl 6 balls in the same spot, but if you can't bowl quicker than 130 clicks, you're nothing more than a holding bowler to dry one end up.

Siraj has brisk pace in the 135-140ks range and sometimes nudges past 140+, has good accuracy and bowls balls that viciously seam in either direction. On very slow wickets where stroke making is difficult and you can't score runs at a brisk pace, Abbas is a very good bowler to have and hence his excellent record in the UAE. But he'll always get found out on flat wickets or even on quick wickets with pace and bounce that aid stroke making as well. Apart from his debut SENA test performance at Lords in 2018 where he picked an 8fer, he has never picked more than 3 wickets across both innings in a test whereas Siraj already has a match winning performance at Lords (8fer) and a series winning performance at the Gabba (6fer) in 3 tests lesser than Abbas has played.

And that's reflected in their respective performances away from home in SENA countries:

Abbas: 24 wickets from 10 tests @ 34.66 and s/r of 78.5 with 0 5fers.

Siraj: 27 wickets from 7 tests @30.16 and s/r of 58.0 with 1 5fer.

The only metric where Abbas fares better is he is a bit better in controlling the runs. Feel free to rate Abbas higher than Siraj, but I ain't buying your argument.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Naseem Shah is rubbish. He's barely played any FC too. He needs to play 3-4 seasons and do well adn then maybe can comeback.

I would rather go for Irfanullah Shah.

 

[warcry]

I'd say Pakistan desperately needs a proper new ball bowler to partner Shaheen.

Hasan Ali bowls too many half volleys and bad balls to open the bowling for Pakistan overseas.
he is much better with the old ball. he can be a proper 3rd seamer.

Abbas is too slow, we cant have the keeper come up for the new ball, it is embarrassing to watch.

 

[Greenstorm]

Rana ji is underrated at this forum.
He is must in SENA. Even in Asia, he can only be dropped if replaced by a spin bowler whose batting is on par with Faheem. (Shadab is only one I can think of who, imo, should play more tests.)

Faheem's ability to hold up an end with tight lines and chip in with a wicket or two is extremely useful. Basically he is a quicker version of Abbas that avgs 35 with bat. To put into perspective, a guy named Asad Shafiq avgs around 37 after playing 60+ tests as a specialist batsman !

That being said, if we can find a decent spin bowling all rounder then any one of Dhani, Rauf and Irfanullah will be my pick for 3rd seamer.

 

[mastimasti]

Abbas is a GOAT standard upgrade to Faheem, but let’s be honest, Faheem is a class lower order batsman! Abbas offers nothing with the bat, and if he isn’t quick enough to trouble elite batsmen with the new or old ball, he is just a massive liability. I do think Abbas will be a handy option in Sri Lanka.

As I said, Abbas should only be used as a replacement for Hassan Ali who is still more versatile due to pace and reverse swing. Otherwise this would be the average speed of your bowling attack:

Shaheen 145k
Hassan 135k
Faheem 130k
Abbas 125k

Compare that to Australia

Starc 145k
Cummins 145k
Hazlewood 140k
Green 135k

You can’t have 3 pressure release trundlers on placid tracks!

Abbas has 90 test wickets at 23.

In 2020 he averaged 31 which wasn't good but he was consistently economical and then put in terrific work against the windies in 2021.

He is the perfect 3rd wheel for Afridi and Ali, while names like Naseem and a few others are developing. Not sure about the negativity surrounding Abbas on pakpassion.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

My vote is for Mohammad Wasim, but not now. After couple of full FC seasons. Must learn the craft - swing, seam, conditions, pitches, opposition etc.